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Mangione Pleads Not Guilty To NY State Terror & Murder Cases; Rep. Sean Casten (D-IL), Is Interviewed About House Ethics Committee Releases Report On Matt Gaetz. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired December 23, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:01:08]

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: Luigi Mangione back in court today for his arraignment on state murder and terror charges. His plea and what's next. We're live outside the courthouse.

Plus, CNN obtains the House ethics report that found evidence that Matt Gaetz paid for sex and drugs. How the former Florida congressman is now responding just ahead.

And later, how a film about domestic violence turned into a legal complaint alleging sexual harassment. We'll have the latest on the Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni dispute.

Good morning. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York. And you are in the CNN newsroom.

We want to begin in New York where the man accused of killing UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson has pleaded not guilty to state murder and terror charges in New York. Here's Luigi Mangione. It's just about an hour ago, as he entered the courtroom for his arraignment, dressed in street clothes, he was flanked by officers.

Mangione faces 11 counts in New York, including one for first degree murder and two counts for second degree murder. Now, if found guilty of the top charge, he could get life in prison without parole. But he also faces a federal murder charge, which means that the death penalty is on the table if he is convicted. This morning, Mangione's lawyer spoke about her concern about her client's ability to get a fair trial. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, ATTORNEY FOR LUIGI MANGIONE: He's a young man and he is being treated like a human ping pong ball between two warring jurisdictions here. These federal and state prosecutors are coordinating with one another, but at the expense of him. They have conflicting theories in their indictments and -- and they are literally treating him like he is like -- like some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: And CNN's Kara Scannell was also inside that courtroom and joins us now. So, Kara, bring us up to speed in terms of how -- how it all went down and what happened.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the whole arraignment took just about 20 minutes. Mangione was led into the courtroom, as you could see there, in plain clothes with his ankles and his wrists shackled. There was the -- the -- the shackling around his waist as well. He was surrounded during the entire hearing by a wall of corrections, excuse me, by a wall of court officers.

And during the hearing, Mangione spoke just once when he entered his plea of not guilty. But his lawyer did use the moment as an opportunity to raise some of these concerns that she has about there being federal charges, which he was indicted or he was -- he was charged with last week, and he had his first court appearance in that case on Thursday. And then these state charges where he was indicted on 11 felony counts and today was his arraignment on those counts.

So she had raised questions about the politicalization of this as well, pointing to the perp walk where Mangione got off that helicopter, walked down the Long Pier in New York City before he came to federal court on Thursday. She raised the -- the issue that New York City's Mayor, Eric Adams, was there, saying that he was politicizing this, even quoting from some of him, while also saying that Adams himself should know something about the presumption of innocence because he is facing federal bribery charges.

Adams has pleaded not guilty to those charges. So this was the first, you know, appearance that Mangione has had in state court. They scheduled another appearance for February. But there was an issue here, too, about where he will be in custody, whether he will stay in federal custody or if he will be in state custody.

The judge asking the prosecutor, who is a 30-year veteran of the office, who has primary custody of this defendant, and he said he believed the state does, but he said it was something that they had just gotten permission to take him out of federal custody for this hearing. So the judge telling him they need to figure out where Mangione is going to be housed as this case moves forward, both on a state track and on the federal track.

Mangione is expected to be back in court in federal court in January for his arraignment on those charges. Rahel?

[11:05:04]

SOLOMON: And Kara, speaking of where he's housed and where he is currently, what do we know about the conditions of the jail where Mangione is currently being detained?

SCANNELL: So Mangione is held at the federal jail in Brooklyn, New York, the Metropolitan Detention Center. It has a reputation as a notorious jail that has poor conditions, that has some judges don't even want to put some defendants there as part of their sentence. It's one of the most notorious jails in the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL (voice-over): It's one of the most dangerous federal jails in the country and the current home of suspected shooter Luigi Mangione, who is facing a federal murder charge for allegedly gunning down the UnitedHealthcare CEO on the streets of Manhattan. Inmate number 52503- 511. Mangione is housed in a facility described by one judge as having dangerous barbaric conditions and an environment of lawlessness.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: All prisons are miserable places to be, but boy, the MDC is maybe the most miserable of all the federal facilities that I've been in. It is dark. It is overcrowded. It's loud. It's too hot in the summer. It's too cold in the winter.

SCANNELL (voice-over): Violence, contraband and drugs plagued the facility on the edge of Brooklyn that has housed some of the highest profile defendants in the federal system.

SAM BANKMAN-FRIED, FORMER CEO, FTX: I feel really, really bad and regretful.

SCANNELL (voice-over): Among them, crypto king Sam Bankman-Fried, embattled music mogul Sean "Diddy" Combs and Jeffrey Epstein's former girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell.

Mangione will likely be isolated given his notoriety. A spokesman for MDC Brooklyn tells CNN for privacy, safety and security reasons, we do not comment on the conditions of confinement for any incarcerated individuals, including housing assignments.

More than 1,100 people, male and female, are currently housed in MDC's notorious cells and dorm style barracks.

HONIG: It's bad enough that various federal judges have actually given reduced sentences or given defendants bail because of the conditions inside the MDC.

SCANNELL (voice-over): In 2019, during a polar vortex, over 1,600 inmates were locked in their cells, some with frigid temperatures, inadequate blankets and toilets that wouldn't flush, according to a lawsuit, resulting in a $10 million settlement with inmates.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We determined that heating issues had been a long standing problem at the jail.

SCANNELL (voice-over): In August of this year, the director of the Bureau of Prisons created an urgent action team to support the warden there and fill staffing shortages.

COLETTE S. PETERS, BUREAU OF PRISONS DIRECTOR: They are certainly riveted with a staffing crisis, which I think is a major driver of some of the issues that are bubbling up out of that institution.

SCANNELL (voice-over): But in September, the DOJ announced five inmates were charged in two separate murders of other inmates. A sixth was charged with attempted murder for allegedly stabbing another inmate 44 times with a makeshift weapon. Another inmate was sent to the hospital with an ice pick stuck in his back.

A multi-agency sweep of the facility in October found a number of electronic devices, drugs and associated paraphernalia, and homemade weapons. And illegal cell phones are common. Federal prosecutors accused alleged gang members of taking photos from inside their cells, posing and showing off their tattoos.

Inmates are not the only criminal offenders. In June, a corrections officer at the jail was sentenced for accepting more than $20,000 in bribes to smuggle drugs, cigarettes and cell phones to inmates, according to the Department of Justice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCANNELL (on camera): Now, if Mangione stays at the MDC, that's the kind of conditions he'll be in. But if he is transferred into state custody, he'll go to the city's jail. That's Rikers Island, a jail that itself has its own reputation for being dangerous and notorious. Rahel?

SOLOMON: Kara Scannell, appreciate the reporting. Thank you.

Let's now bring into the conversation Court TV and former federal prosecutor Julie Grant. Julie, welcome.

JULIE GRANT, ANCHOR, COURT TV: Rahel, welcome. Thank you for having me.

SOLOMON: Yes, it's great to have you. So it's -- it's not often that we see cases like the Luigi Mangione case that really capture national attention. Your -- your thoughts on that and what does it say about sort of where we are right now?

GRANT: Sure, Rahel. It's a sad state of affairs when this morning when we're getting ready for this arraignment to happen in state court in Manhattan and everyone's preparing. You see security outside of the courthouse. You see the microphone set up for the press conference. And you hear cheering from people, cheering for a murder suspect.

People have been very vocal and wanting to be vocal, unafraid people wanting to show their support for this man. This is something really stunning because we know that homicides sadly happen far too often in America. And here, when you have a high profile victim like Brian Thompson and the way in which this was done, so bold, so brazen, some people are hailing this guy as a hero.

[11:10:03]

And -- and then it brings up a whole host of other legal issues as we move forward, Rahel, when we think about the three different cases that this guy has to deal with, two in New York, one in Pennsylvania, and whether or not we're even going to see a fair trial. So I think what we're seeing is -- is stunning on some level. It's also somewhat of a wakeup call, I think, of where the climate is in America. But, you know, we have ways of going about things when we want to affect change, as you know, Rahel. And taking one's life, taking the law into one's hands, it's -- it's against the law, it's -- it's heinous, it's cruel, it's cold blooded. That's what these allegations are.

And so Luigi Mangione essentially made himself, you know, from a -- a superstar Ivy League student to somebody who may never, ever see the light of day.

SOLOMON: Yes, yes. And of course, the death penalty is also a potential depending on the federal case. Let me ask about this perp walk we saw last week. We also don't see perp walks like this a lot. It was really dramatic. This is when Mangione arrived in New York. You see him sort of surrounded, flanked by heavily armed police. It's a very slow walk.

You even see, maybe not in this clip, but you can certainly see in the clip, New York City Mayor Eric Adams was there. What do you make of that? And does that add to his notoriety? I mean, this was certainly the day this happened, on Thursday. This was pretty much all you saw on social media.

GRANT: Yes. It's a really smart question, Rahel. Thank you for that. So it can kind of cut both ways. So when you look at it from the prosecution's perspective, let -- let's just look at it from their standpoint. They want to see him convicted. They want him behind bars. Potentially in the federal system, as you mentioned, the death penalty could be a real possibility for Luigi Mangione, depending upon what's decided. We don't know yet.

But for them, they want to see a fair trial happen. And you have the risk of jury nullification is what you have. If you have these very vocal supporters, he's cheering, crowds, you know, when they see him in person, all of that somewhat more of a pomp and circumstance around him makes him seem kind of special, right? You know, he is -- he's -- he's a defendant just like any other criminal defendant in America.

And so the prosecution has challenges of people who may want to see him get off. Maybe those stealth jurors who want to be on the jury because they have an ax to grind with the health care system. That's a problem from that side. From the defense side, as you mentioned, you see the mayor there. I mean, the reception to -- to -- to greet him essentially when he's extradited from Pennsylvania, that was very unconventional. That typically does not happen.

And so from the defense perspective, you say, wait a minute, our client needs to be treated fairly. There are concerns that he shouldn't be vilified, there shouldn't be piling on. He should be treated like any other criminal defendant who's committed said crime. So both sides, I think, have some work to do and some very legitimate concerns, the largest of which, Rahel, is going to be whether or not capital punishment is pursued.

SOLOMON: Yes. And that -- that latter point about the perp walk and the mayor being there, that was certainly raised at the arraignment today. I want to just ask, since we touched on the -- the possibility that death -- that the death penalty could be on the table. What goes into that when it comes to the federal charges is just up to sort of the discretion of the prosecutors or sort of what goes into that decision making?

GRANT: That's correct, Rahel. It's a weighty decision. So it is a long process. And so first and foremost, there would be consulting with Brian Thompson's family. Any time the death penalty is pursued, you always want to take into account the feelings of the family. The family can't dictate legally what the federal government or -- or the state government for that matter does.

But they still have a very, very big role to play in whether or not to make that decision. You consider the severity of the crime, the heinousness of the act, whether or not there are what's called the aggravating factors we call in the law that makes something so heinous, so reprehensible that death is really the only appropriate punishment. So it would be a wide discussion with the victim's family, also with higher ups in the office.

And then ultimately it would be the -- the top official in the office, the U.S. Attorney, who would be making that call.

SOLOMON: Julie Grant, great to have your insights and perspective today. Thank you.

GRANT: Thanks for having me, Rahel.

SOLOMON: OK. We want to get to some breaking news. The House Ethics Committee has now just released that bombshell report about now former Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz. And we're learning that Gaetz has sued the committee. It was a last ditch effort to try to prevent that release. The report details numerous allegations against Gaetz, including illicit drug use and sexual misconduct with a minor. Gaetz has denied those allegations. Let's bring in CNN crime and justice correspondent, Katelyn Polantz, to -- to walk us through the report now that it's been released.

[11:14:59]

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, Rahel, that lawsuit Matt Gaetz has filed to push back against this, essentially dead on arrival because the House Ethics Committee now has its report about Matt Gaetz and their findings out there. What they're claiming, what they believe, what they say they have substantial evidence backing up, including witness testimony, text messages, other documentation that they have found Matt Gaetz engaged in commercial sex, meaning paying women for sex, statutory rape, which they believe is in violation of Florida law. So having sex with a minor several years ago, a woman who at the time was 17 years old entering her senior year of high school, and then illicit drug use as well. Those are the three top line findings.

The general documentation here is that the House says Matt Gaetz at least 20 times met with women who were being paid for sex and or drugs. And he is already pushing back against this, Rahel. He did file a lawsuit that is not going to be going anywhere because he's not going to be able to stop the release of report that just got released. But he is also saying that in this testimony, the women were never charged specifically for anything.

Saying giving funds to someone you were dating that they didn't ask for and that isn't charged for sex is now prostitution. There is a reason they did this to me in a Christmas Eve -- Eve report and not in a courtroom of any kind where I could present evidence and challenge witnesses. This is something separate from court. The Justice Department looked at possible charges against Matt Gaetz related to these allegations, chose not to bring criminal court case against him.

And then the House Ethics Committee picked it up and continued on with the investigation, interviewing witnesses, including that underage victim. One of the things that happened here over and over again that the Committee was told about is that many of these women did believe that they were generally expected to be having sex with Matt Gaetz in exchange for money. One was paid more than $5,000 and another didn't get money specifically, but got a trip to the Bahamas. So all of this coming together in some really searing allegations against the former congressman.

SOLOMON: Yes. Katelyn Polantz, thank you.

And stay with us we're going to have much more on our breaking news just ahead, where I'll speak to Congressman Sean Casten right after this.

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[11:21:29]

SOLOMON: Welcome back. And back to our breaking news. The House Ethics Committee has just released its report on former Congressman Matt Gaetz. The report says that it found evidence that Gaetz paid thousands of dollars for sex and drugs, including paying a 17-year-old for sex in 2017. Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Sean Casten of Illinois. Congressman, great to have you today. Thank you.

REP. SEAN CASTEN (D-IL): Thank you for having me.

SOLOMON: So you pushed for this report's release. Are you satisfied that it's now out?

CASTEN: Well, look, this is not a happy day. There's nothing that's positive in this. I'm -- I'm happy only in the sense that the House has to hold itself to a higher ethical standard if we're to be, you know, have -- have the trust of the American people. We pushed for the release of this report because we want to make sure that the House continues to hold itself to that standard. And I'm glad that the Ethics Committee ultimately voted to release it.

SOLOMON: I want to read for you just a bit of some of -- of what we learned. We do know that he's seeking a restraining order against the Ethics Committee releasing it, although they've released it. So that's kind of dead on arrival. But I want to read for you just a little bit of what we've learned from the report. Gaetz, although I should say said that he was notified of their plans to release it. Is -- is that a fair point?

CASTEN: It's very clear from reading the report that the -- the committee was in frequent correspondence with Mr. Gaetz for years. Asked him to provide documents, he refused to sit for interviews. I think he misrepresented at one point that he'd provided tens of thousands of documents. And the report says he provided hundreds, 90 percent of which were either non-responsive or publicly available. So I would -- I would take what Mr. Gaetz says with a grain of salt, but he clearly knew that this report was out there and he clearly resigned to try to prevent it from coming out.

SOLOMON: OK. Now let me get into one of the details from the report. Among the many, the report says that Gaetz had sex with multiple women at a party in 2017 that included a then 17-year-old who says that she was paid by Gaetz. The victim says she did not inform Gaetz, though, that she was under 18. But she also said that he did not ask her age either. He's denied any criminal wrongdoing. But Congressman, what -- what is your reaction to that?

CASTEN: Let's just put this a little bit in context, Matt. Gaetz was, if I'm doing the math right, 36, 37-years-old at the time, and he had sex with a 17-year-old girl, a high school junior. The -- the idea that just that -- that's even remotely appropriate is disgusting. But number two, what the report makes clear is that it is a violation of Florida statutory rape law to have sex with a minor, even if you do not know their age. He has violated those laws. He has violated Florida state laws about possession and use of controlled substances, and he's violated Florida's prostitution laws and paying for sex.

Now, some of those, there's a long discussion about, you know, the statute of limitations expired. We can have a rich conversation about why the DOJ didn't prosecute, but he broke Florida law. And what he can be held accountable for now is that under -- as a member of the House, we all pledge to hold ourselves to a higher ethics standard that includes not breaking state laws.

So the House Ethics Committee has found all these things that I just said to be true. But put yourself in that position. You're at a party, there's a young girl who is less than half of your age who is doing drugs and you're having sex with her and your excuse is you didn't know she was 17. Come on.

SOLOMON: Some of your Republican colleagues have said, you know, if this report is being released, then others should be released as well. The public has a right to know about all of the other investigations the Committee has done as well. What do you make about that argument?

[11:25:05]

CASTEN: It's -- it's frankly offensive. The -- there is a long history of the House Ethics Committee continuing and releasing reports in these circumstances. And I think people are playing a rhetorical game that's a little disingenuous. It is true in a way that's irrelevant, but it is true that the majority of members who have left Congress who are under ethics investigation did not have that report released.

Now, a lot of those investigations were minor issues. I'm not trying to trivialize, but, you know, maybe you didn't file your receipts on time and you were under investigation. A lot of those cases were members who lost elections. There's a very small number of cases where members who were under allegations this serious resigned in effort to get through. Of them, we've identified -- we've -- we've gone through and looked through. We found four in the past four decades of history in every one of those cases.

And now in five of those cases, the Ethics Committee has completed their report, and for those five, now, they have released that information. That is the precedent. The idea that somehow, if we follow precedent, we will have to release a bunch of other information. I mean, look, if there's other members who are having sex with children and doing drugs, we should be investigating that as well.

But to -- for -- for members to say that this is somehow a change in precedent or opens up a Pandora's Box, I would suggest to you that the opposite is the case. If we tarnish the reputation of this institution, we've -- we've lost this beautiful, you know, 250-year- old experiment that we're the custodians of.

SOLOMON: Congressman Sean Casten, we appreciate the time today. Thank you.

CASTEN: Thank you.

SOLOMON: And when we come back, police say that they have arrested a suspect in this weekend's horrific New York City subway attack. You were in the CNN newsroom. We'll be right back.

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