Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Remembering Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter; Bird Flu Danger?; Trump Defends Foreign Worker Visas. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired December 30, 2024 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:03]

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Now, one thing just to clarify here is that Donald Trump was talking about having a lot of H-1B visa workers on his properties.

We actually dug into the data from the Department of Labor, and it shows that most of the workers on Donald Trump's properties who have these types of visas have H-2B visas, which essentially allow for jobs like landscaping and hospitality, but all to say, this is different from what Donald Trump has said in the past.

In the past and during his first administration, the H-1B visa program actually saw a decline. And he also ran in 2016 on arguing that too many American companies don't prioritize American workers and criticized the H-1B visa program.

But now he is saying that he is a supporter of it and really standing on the side of Elon Musk, despite many people in his party, a lot of the MAGA faithful, really criticizing Musk and others for taking that position -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Alayna Treene, thank you so much.

And for more on this is former Trump White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin joining us now on this holiday week.

So, Alyssa, Trump's own businesses have hired H-1B visa workers, though, we should note, as Alayna said, the majority were H-2B, with CNN finding the most recent was when Trump Media and Technology Group was approved to hire a data analyst in 2022.

But Trump has previously criticized the visa program, even restricting access to foreign worker visas in his first term. I wonder, as someone who worked in his White House the first term, what you recall from that time in terms of his opposition to those visas and why he is changing his mind now.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, this is kind of a fascinating update, because it's actually conservative and Republican Party orthodoxy to support high-skill immigration.

We see it, we have always framed it as a way to counter China, to compete with China. You want to attract the best workers in STEM fields. Donald Trump kind of went back and forth on this issue. And the MAGA wing, the Steve Bannons of the world, certainly didn't support more of these and wanted these caps on visas that were in place in the first administration.

But I see this as, yes, the growing influence that Elon Musk has on Donald Trump, but I also see it as part of Donald Trump's just general being tough-on-China strategy.

The reality, is China is investing to try to be able to compete more with us in these areas. And I think that I'm going to take a beat and say that perhaps this is him learning something from his first administration, that, if we want to be competitive in these fields, we have to lift these caps.

BROWN: Right, but also, it does certainly raise the question of how his defense, coming out and defending H-1B visas, squares with his pledge to hire American.

FARAH GRIFFIN: There's perhaps a bit of a disconnect, but, honestly, to Alayna's reporting, I think that when he's talking about working- class voters, some of these new voters that the Trump coalition brought in, those are going to be far more affected by these H-2B visa, which are the ones he's hiring on his property.

And I think, when he's talking about high-skilled labor, that is very important on being globally competitive. You do need to, in fact, be able to bring in the best workers, particularly in STEM fields.

Listen, there was -- I think that the sort of civil war around this issue was a bit overplayed in the media, in the sense that Donald Trump's been on a number of sides of this issue, but there wasn't a primary policy objective he ran on this cycle, saying, we are going to stop high-skilled immigration.

He did talk about securing the border. He talked about more jobs for American workers, but also being tough on China. And I think that there's a way in which all of those sort of square with this position.

BROWN: Threading the needle.

All right, turning to another topic, we just learned that Trump has endorsed House Speaker Mike Johnson for the upcoming speaker race. What are your thoughts on that?

FARAH GRIFFIN: A massive boon to Mike Johnson.

Listen, after the last spending deal, his speakership looked like it was in a lot of trouble. There are a lot of members of the Freedom Caucus who were unhappy with how he's handled things. We know how it went just last cycle, when Kevin McCarthy went up to something like 15 votes before he was ultimately ousted and replaced by Mike Johnson.

But this is the best gift he could have given him heading into the new year. I think it makes it far harder for members of Congress to vote against him. I imagine a few still will. But Donald Trump wants to hit the ground running. He doesn't want to be sworn into office and then have Congress basically at a standstill trying to elect a speaker for weeks on end.

So, huge win for Mike Johnson, but also Donald Trump signaling to House Republicans, I don't want you guys wasting any time. I have an agenda when I come in on day one, and we don't want the distractions we saw last time around.

BROWN: All right, Alyssa Farah Griffin, great to see you, as always.

FARAH GRIFFIN: Great to see you.

And coming up: A former COVID response coordinator told me last week that the U.S. isn't reacting fast enough to the threat of bird flu. The CDC is now pushing back on that claim.

I will speak to a top official at the agency next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:39:06]

BROWN: Well, the CDC is now pushing back after a health expert told me the U.S. isn't acting fast enough to contain the bird flu outbreak in poultry and dairy cattle.

Former COVID response chief Dr. Deborah Birx told me this on Friday:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: We're not testing enough. And we know from other viruses that a lot of the spread can be asymptomatic. So we kind of have our head in the sand about how widespread this is from the zoonotic standpoint, from the animal-to-human standpoint.

And flash back to January of 2020, and I'm hearing the same words come out of the CDC.

BROWN: Right. Like what?

BIRX: Low risk. Low risk of human-to-human transmission.

(CROSSTALK)

BIRX: Our agencies are making the same mistakes they made with COVID.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now is the director of the CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, Dr. Demetre Daskalakis.

Doctor, thank you so much for coming on.

[11:40:01]

I mean, those are some strong words there from Dr. Birx. What is your response to her comments about the need for more testing of the bird flu?

DR. DEMETRE DASKALAKIS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL CENTER FOR IMMUNIZATION AND RESPIRATORY DISEASES: So, first, thank you so much for having me on. Happy new year, everybody.

So I will start by saying a really important point, which is, the flu is not COVID. I think COVID as an example was a virus that we'd never encountered. Flu is one that we have been preparing for, for decades. And bird flu, specifically, we have been preparing for over two decades.

So, quite notably, we have been doing a lot of surveillance and testing of influenza, especially since March. So our routine influenza system -- that is what we use every year to figure out what the best vaccine is and what at the best strategies are for flu -- has, in fact, tested 73,000 people to look for bird flu and has actually found three individuals through that system.

So, along with the work that we do in our regular surveillance, testing tens of thousands of people since March, we also have been engaging with farmworkers and farmworker health organizations to make sure that individuals with exposures are testing.

So we know that that is the highest yield for identifying individuals infected with bird flu. So, I think bottom line is that we have been doing both industrial-strength work, looking at surveillance, making sure that we're getting a sense of what's happening across the country using our flu surveillance system, but also working on the ground with our state public health departments to make sure that we're testing individuals with exposure.

BROWN: Well, what do you say to what she said? And I see your point about this -- bird flu is different from COVID, we have been preparing for this -- that she's hearing a lot of the same words that she heard with COVID, like it's low risk. Early on, that's what they were saying. And the CDC Web site still says bird flu is low risk to public health.

What do you say to that? And do you believe it's still low risk?

DASKALAKIS: So, to be clear, we're -- we say on our Web site that bird flu is low risk to the general population.

So, every time we identify a case of bird flu, we go through an entire process to really look at our risk assessment. So we look at the story, the epidemiology around that case. Is there any evidence of human-to-human transmission? And, to be clear, there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission in the United States at this time.

We also look really carefully at the sequence related to influenza to make sure that we see if there is any change that could potentially mean that the virus is changing in a way that could mean that it's higher risk to humans.

And I think that's been really important in the work that we have been doing and will continue to do. So, I think based on our looking at the risk every day, looking at what we're learning from the virus, as well as epidemiology, that remains true, that it is low risk for the general population.

With that said, there is increased risk for individuals who have exposure to animal and animal products. So that's why so much of the work that we're doing is focused on farmworkers and others who may have exposure to birds or other products that may put them at risk for H5.

And we do that by doing the work that we're doing with testing, but also making clear guidance around how people can protect themselves with personal protective equipment, as well as antivirals in terms of post-exposure prophylaxis, so using medications after an exposure to prevent potential acquisition of bird flu.

BROWN: All right, so there's this -- there's a couple scenarios here, right?

You have the Louisiana case where there was a mutation that was detected, and then you have the potential scenario of someone, a farmworker, for example, getting the flu, the seasonal flu, and also getting bird flu and sort of the concoction of both of those leading to it being transmissible to a human potentially.

How concerning is this? Do you think it's just a matter of time until it starts mutating to infect human to human?

DASKALAKIS: I will start by saying we're approaching influenza, as we always do, with great humility. Influenza is a virus that can change, and I think that the Louisiana case is a great example.

So, in that circumstance, we have an individual who is infected by a virus. And, as that virus replicates, it can actually acquire changes. And it has done that.

Importantly, those changes did not transmit beyond that person. So, though we have seen those changes, they may not be enough to be what sort of generates an increased assessment of risk. Another important piece is that we work really closely with our colleagues at USDA.

And when looking at the birds in that individual's backyard, we didn't see those changes. So, the bottom line is that the work that we do every day to make sure that we understand what's happening with the virus as well as the epidemiology is really what helps us make that risk assessment.

[11:45:05]

And, like I said, we really approach this virus and this situation with great humility, but also approach it with decades of experience in dealing with influenza.

BROWN: What are the risks associated with every human case that develops?

DASKALAKIS: Yes, so I think that, when we look at each case, we look at exposure. Did they have a known exposure? What was that exposure?

Is there any evidence for human-to-human transmission? And we're definitely not seeing that. And is there any increase in the severity? So we really look at all of these together to help guide our public health response.

And a lot of what we're seeing now is telling us, be prepared. And so we have done that by making sure that testing is available through our public health labs, but also through two large commercial companies that allow physicians and other health care providers to order tests in their practice from their offices.

So that's something that I think potentially didn't come through in some of the comments from some of my colleagues that, in fact, we do have commercial testing available for H5 available today. And, in fact, it's been available since the early fall.

I think the other part of this is that we are avidly making sure that we are prepared in the circumstance that we need to move from being prepared for a vaccine program to moving to a vaccine program. And so the work that we do every day to categorize influenza viruses has been really important, because that's how we generate candidate vaccine viruses, which are the ones that we're developing with our colleagues in ASPE in the event that we need to go from planning and preparedness to implementing a vaccine.

BROWN: All right, Dr. Daskalakis, thank you so much for your time.

DASKALAKIS: Thank you very much. Have a great day.

BROWN: You too.

And coming up: Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter's remarkable love story. My next guest says their longtime collaboration made a more peaceful, humane world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:51:07]

BROWN: Well, this morning, the world is mourning the loss and celebrating the life and legacy of Jimmy Carter.

The 39th president passed away yesterday in his hometown of Plains, Georgia, at the age of 100. His death comes about a year after the love of his life passed away. Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter were married for 77 years and were inseparable as they navigated the White House and the decades that followed.

Here's Jimmy Carter back in 2015, asked about his biggest accomplishment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, the best thing I would do was marrying Rosalynn. That's the pinnacle of my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So sweet.

Joining is now is E. Stanly Godbold. He wrote a pair of biographies on the couple, including "Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter: The Georgia Years," covering the couple's early life together.

So you have written about how Rosalynn was his perfect complement, someone he saw as a truly equal partner who was involved in virtually every decision of his presidency. Tell us more about what made them so unique.

E. STANLY GODBOLD, AUTHOR, "JIMMY AND ROSALYNN CARTER: THE GEORGIA YEARS": Well, what made them so unique is, of course, that they were both very intelligent. They were independent of each other, but they also worked beautifully together.

They had a great deal of respect for each other, and they formed a business and political partnership, as well as the marriage that lasted for 77 years.

Jimmy once said that he -- it took him a while to discover how intelligent and useful Rosalynn was. That came by the time he became governor. So, thereafter, he always included her in his political operations as an equal partner.

She was an adviser, but she also made decisions. She participated in strategy decisions. She advised him on almost every major event of his presidency.

He and Rosalynn actually used the presidency as a stepping-stone to a post-presidency in which they were co-chairs of the Carter Center in Atlanta, legally equal partners. And they continued to do the things they had done earlier in their lives, like work for humanitarian concerns and for peace at home and around the world.

Ultimately, they won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002. They practiced the Christian religion in, which they believed. One of the best episodes, of course, is their well-known work with Habitat for Humanity. The Carters believed in separation of church and state.

They believed that, for a nation to be strong and free, it had to have a strong military, it had to have a strong democracy. It had to have respect for individuals and respect for people with different beliefs.

And that's how they operated as president, as a couple as president, and during their long post-presidency. They knew how each other was thinking. When Carter sent Rosalynn to South America as a diplomat, he didn't have to worry about what she was going to say. Anything she said, he would believe could be exactly the same thing that he would say.

It was a unique partnership. And, as a result of that, of course, they leave us a legacy of humanitarian concerns and peace, but not only that. They leave us a legacy of knowing how to do it, how to acquire and use power, political power, military power...

[11:55:06]

BROWN: Right.

GODBOLD:... economic power to accomplish their goals.

BROWN: All right, E. Stanly Godbold, man, you made my job easy talking about them and just the beautiful relationship that they had for 77 years and how the marriage really shaped his life and his legacy as well.

E. Stanly Godbold, thank you so much.

GODBOLD: Thank you.

BROWN: And thank you for joining us. I'm Pamela Brown. You can follow me on Instagram, TikTok and X @PamelaBrownCNN.

Stay with us. "INSIDE POLITICS" with Phil Mattingly starts after a short break.