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Pamela Brown Talks Politics and Trump's Sentencing; Trudeau Resigning; Interview with Rep. Jake Auchincloss. Aired 11-1130p ET

Aired January 06, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, HOST, CNN: Four years ago today, Donald Trump supporters stormed the Capitol, delaying the certification of President Biden's win and rattling democracy in America. In two hours, Congress will convene to count the electoral votes and certify Trump's remarkable return to power on this snowy, Washington day.

Plus, exclusive new reporting. A confidential 2019 report that I obtained details how security in New Orleans French Quarter was hampered by, quote, politics and bickering amongst city officials.

My guest is the CEO behind the firm of the 2019 troubling report. Hi, everybody. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. And you're in the CNN Newsroom.

And in just a couple of hours, the House and the Senate will convene to certify the results of Donald Trump's election win. A once routine and ceremonial process, until 2021, when Trump held a rally telling his supporters to fight like hell before a mob of people stormed the capitol, trying to overturn the 2020 election.

Now, Trump, in his defense, maintained that he said peacefully and patriotically march to the capitol and denied sparking the riot. And after congressional hearings and even DOJ January 6th charges, now dismissed, Trump is back in power. And House Speaker Mike Johnson says, there will be no delay in certifying the results.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny joins us from West Palm Beach, Florida. Before we go to Jeff Zeleny, I want to go to Justin Trudeau, the prime minister of Canada, is stepping down as the leader of his party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN TRUDEAU, PRIME MINISTER, CANADA: I have the privilege of serving in this office. That is why, since 2015, I have fought for this country, for you, to strengthen and grow the middle class. Why we rallied to support each other through the pandemic. To advance reconciliation. To defend free trade on this continent. To stand strong with Ukraine and our democracy. And to fight climate change and get our economy ready for the future.

We are at a critical moment in the world. (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) to defend free trade. And the unswerving support of Canada for Ukraine. As well as the fight against climate change. We are really going through a very critical period at the moment.

You all know, I'm a fighter. Every bone in my body has always told me to fight because I care deeply about Canadians. I care deeply about this country. And I will always be motivated by what is in the best interest of Canadians. And the fact is, despite best efforts to work through it, parliament has been paralyzed for months after what has been the longest session of a minority parliament in Canadian history. That's why this morning I advised the governor general that we need a new session of parliament. She has granted this request, and the house will now be prorogued until March 24th.

Over the holidays, I've also had chance to reflect and have had long talks with my family about our future. Throughout the course of my career, any success I have personally achieved has been because of their support and with their encouragement.

So last night over dinner I told my kids about the decision that I'm sharing with you today. I intend to resign as party leader.

[11:05:00]

As prime minister after the party selects its next leader through a robust nationwide, competitive process. Last night I asked the president of the liberal party to begin that process.

This country deserves a real choice in the next election. And it has become clear to me that if I'm having to fight internal battles, I cannot be the best option in that election. (SPEAKS IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

As you know, I'm a great fighter. I have always been deeply committed to the fight. And have done everything in the interest of Canadians. But, despite all the efforts which I deployed --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right. I want to bring in CNN's Paula Newton in Ottawa. We also have Jeff Zeleny standing by for us in West Palm Beach. Paula, first to you though. I mean here you have Justin Trudeau is stepping down, resigning as the leader of the liberal party in Canada. He has been at the helm there for 11 years. Is this the case of Trudeau jumping before he was pushed?

PAULA NEWTON, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Absolutely, 100 percent. And he basically said so in the last few moments there that we heard from him. He said look, I can't possibly fight what will be an incredibly difficult election campaign for a government that's almost a decade old if I have to continually fight these internal battles.

Now, look, there have been a long list of scandals as well as some achievements that he outlined there. But again, so many members of his own government coming to him and saying, we don't believe that you can beat conservative leader -- conservative party leader, Pierre Poilievre, in the next election, an election that has to be held by the end of the year. And Pam, as I've been saying all morning, stop me when this sounds

familiar, this really leaves his party in a tough squeeze. The polls already indicate that they are more than 20 percentage points behind, and now they're going to have this succession battle and it will be rough with a lots of different people putting their hat in the ring.

In the meantime, you have President-Elect Trump coming into office. I don't have to remind you in two weeks, threatening 25% tariffs on all Canadian goods imported into the United States. It is a tall order by any stretch. He will stay to be so-called caretaker prime minister. But also parliament will not be sitting. And that'll be interesting because it means that no government business can basically get done. It's really just governing on an emergency basis, if you will.

Again, a lot of moving parts here. I will add to all of this, Canada just assumed the G7 presidency at the beginning of 2025. G7 meetings supposed to happen in Alberta, Canada in June. A lot on the plate here. And the prime minister really putting a personal touch on this, saying that look, I had a discussion with my three children at dinner last night. And that's when I made the decision. Something we all know he did not want to do.

BROWN: Jeff, to bring you in on this. It wasn't that long ago, it was November 29th, where Trudeau met with Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago. We have seen Trump belittle Trudeau, right? I mean he posted on Truth Social that he was the governor of the great state of Canada. You know, they've had a tumultuous relationship over the years. And now you have Trudeau resigning as the leader of the liberal party in Canada.

JEFF ZELENY, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Certainly an extraordinary move, and one that was likely not on the mindset of the prime minister as he traveled down just in the weeks after the election, as you were saying, Pamela. That was a chance for Justin Trudeau to perhaps look for a lifeline from Donald Trump for his own leadership in Canada.

That, of course, did not happen. Shortly after that dinner in Mar-a- Lago -- and it was not a bilateral meeting. It was not a long conversation. Justin Trudeau was seated at dinner table with about ten other people or so. So perhaps that was also a sign of just the level of -- the meeting was rushed in some respects but certainly not a long conversation about things to come.

But since then, Donald Trump has been belittling and mocking the prime minister, of course the beleaguered prime minister, as well as suggesting Canada should be the 51st state of the United States. Of course, not going to happen regardless of who the prime minister is.

However, this does certainly raise questions for Donald Trump as well. Will he try and involve himself in the elections in Canada? How does he deal with this caretaker government? Do the tariffs he has proposed actually go through? We shall see. There are more questions at this very moment, as is often the case here, than there are answers.

[11:10:00] But two weeks from now Donald Trump, after taking the oath of office, two weeks and one hour from now, this will be his challenge and his problem as well.

But for now, no question this is a very major development that certainly was not foreseen when Justin Trudeau came down here to Palm Beach just a few weeks ago, Pamela.

BROWN: Yeah. You mentioned, you know, we'll have to wait around see if Trump meddles in this upcoming election in Canada. You also have to wonder if Elon Musk will be weighing in as well. We've seen him weigh in in other elections in other countries. So a lot to keep our eye on here with this breaking news of Justin Trudeau resigning as the leader of the liberal party in Canada.

Thank you, both, Paula Newton, Jeff Zeleny, well be right back.

(COMMERCIAL)

[11:15:00]

BROWN: In just a couple of hours from now, the House and the Senate will convene to certify the results of Donald Trump's election win. A once routine and ceremonial process until 2021. Look at this split screen right here. This dichotomy, really. Where you see the -- there was the rally, the Trump rally and then the rioters went and stormed the capitol building in the early afternoon in 2021, January 6th, on this day.

Now 11:15 a.m. , same day, four years later, a beautiful, snowy, peaceful day in Washington. Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss of Washington -- of Massachusetts, I should say, joins us now from Capitol Hill. You are in Washington now. You're here for this sacred day, the certifying of the election.

You know, when you look back four years ago, you had been on the job just a few days when those rioters stormed the capitol. What do you remember about that day?

REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, (D-MA): A devastating day for American democracy. Shattered glass, wounded Capitol Hill police officers, National Guard turning the front porch of democracy into a fortress. And four years later, it's going to be a routine ceremonial day because Democrats walked back in on January 6th, 2021 and we supported and defended the Constitution of the United States when Donald Trump refused to.

BROWN: CNN's Stephen Collinson writes, "Trump will send a message down through the ages that a president who refuses to accept the result of a free and fair election and who incites an attack on the capitol can get away with it and regain power." What do you say to that?

AUCHINCLOSS: He's right. Regrettably. When George Washington handed off power to John Adams, when John Adams handed off power to Thomas Jefferson after the world's first contested presidency election, it shocked leaders and people throughout the earth because the norm had been that leaders only changed over through death, through bloodshed, through coups, through violence. And America demonstrated something different, and then Donald Trump marked dishonor upon that 250- year tradition.

Now, I'm told that he's trying to invite world leaders and celebrities to his inauguration, but no amount of glam is going to ever remove that mark of dishonor upon what he did on that day.

BROWN: It was clear, though, in terms of, you know the politics of it, voters when it came to this last election, this wasn't weighing heavy on them, what happened four years ago. And you know, Democrats, we heard, and President Biden, had talked about democracy and January 6th and there is, of course, the January 6th Committee. Why do you think it hasn't stuck in the minds of Americans in terms of how they vote compared to what you're laying out now?

AUCHINCLOSS: I actually do think it has stuck in the mind of Americans. January 6th and what happened on that day is not popular with the majority of Americans. There is a plurality of Republicans who recognize it as a dismal day of democracy. But you're right that it was not the most salient issue on Election Day, largely because of inflation and I think immigration as well has pushed it from the top of the agenda.

But that does not mean that voters do not expect their elected officials to respect the constitution of the United States. I'm confident that they do. And one of the worst things that Donald Trump did is he hijacked the patriotism of his base by convincing them that they were the ones protecting democracy when, in fact, they were the one's colluding against the peaceful transfer of power.

BROWN: Trump has made clear, he has been clear, about his intentions to pardon capitol rioters. 1,270 of them have been convicted last month. He told "Time" magazine that he would start the pardons in the first hour, even the first nine minutes, I believe he said that he takes office. If he follows through on this promise, what do you think about them getting a pass from the president?

AUCHINCLOSS: Well, beyond the typical discounting of any promise that Donald Trump makes, no individual who assaults a police officer, who trespasses on federal property in order to disrupt the transfer of power and our constitutional norms should be getting a pardon. You do the crime. You do the time.

BROWN: I spoke to a Trump aide this morning too on this note and was asking about what the latest is and apparently he is still working with advisers inside and outside and looking through the pardons on a case by case basis.

But following this insurrection, you decided not to co-sponsor or sign on to any legislation promoted by lawmakers who voted to reject the election results of 2020. Where do you stand now?

AUCHINCLOSS: That's right. For the 117th Congress during those two years, I decided I could not represent the values of my constituents by co-sponsoring legislation with seditionists. [11:20:00]

Now once those members of Congress had been sent back to the chamber by their constituents in the 118th Congress, I decided I should respect the will of their voters and work with them again.

But I'll always know who stood up for the Constitution that day and who did not. Who had political courage that day and who did not. And if Donald Trump wants to mark his inauguration in a way that helps this country heal and move forward, he should not be pardoning January 6th insurrectionists. He should be extending an olive branch to work on bipartisan legislation on things like affordable housing and lowering drug cost and interdicting the fentanyl supply chain. Stop trying to rub salt in the wounds that are still very fresh.

BROWN: So back in 2017, you speak of the inauguration, when Trump was first inaugurated more than 60 members boycotted his swearing in. There was talk of some now deciding to attend while others are undecided. Do you plan to be there on January 20th?

AUCHINCLOSS: Yes, I do. As a mark of respect for the great American tradition of the peaceful transfer of power. The largest city in my district, Fall River, voted for Donald Trump. And I owe those constituents representation at that monumental event.

BROWN: I want to ask you quickly before we let you go about just the symbolic imagery of Kamala Harris presiding over her election loss today.

AUCHINCLOSS: I would ask you and our listeners a question in return, which is, can anybody imagine Donald Trump doing the same?

BROWN: That's all you have to say?

AUCHINCLOSS: Yes.

BROWN: All right. Congressman Jake Auchincloss, thank you.

Still ahead, President-Elect Donald Trump is asking a New York court to delay his sentencing for his hush money conviction that's scheduled for this Friday. Why Trumps team says the sentencing that was -- could be held over Zoom, virtual, must be put on hold. Up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:25:00]

BROWN: Of course Congress convenes today to certify President-Elect Trump's election win, we're getting some new details surrounding his hush money conviction sentencing. Trump's legal team is asking to delay that sentencing, which the judge scheduled for this Friday after rejecting his team's attempts to toss his conviction.

Joining us now, CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Elie Honig. So here you go, Trump asking the judge to postpone his sentencing, which is currently, as I noted, scheduled to happen on Friday. It could have happened by Zoom. What's Trump's legal argument here for the postponement, Elie?

ELIE HONIG, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Yeah, Pam, I had a feeling he was going to try to delay this and sure enough he has. So Trump is arguing immunity on two different levels relating to the hush money case. First he's arguing that some of the evidence that was admitted against him at the hush money trial related to the time he was president. Therefore he should have been immune from that. Therefore he's entitled to a new trial.

Second of all, Trump is arguing now that I'm president-elect, I'm immune from any criminal proceedings. Now, Judge Marchand has already rejected both of those immunity arguments. But what Trump says in the brief that he just filed a few minutes ago is I'm allowed to appeal that rejection by Judge Marchand. And while I'm doing that appeal, everything else has to be stayed. Everything else has to be put on hold. So Trump's argument essentially is while I appeal the immunity issue, everything has to be put on hold, including the sentencing that's set for this Friday.

BROWN: So what's the argument that the sentencing should proceed?

HONIG: I think the argument that you'll see in response from the D.A. and maybe from the judge is you might have been entitled to a stay, to put a hold on the trial itself. But the trial itself is already over. All we have left here is sentencing. And there's no harm, I think the argument would be, in going ahead with this sentencing, which will probably take a few minutes by Zoom on Friday. And then you, Donald Trump, can have your appeal.

So it's really sort of a practical consideration of those procedural questions. What needs to come first, the sentencing or the appeal.

BROWN: And again, just for our viewers, because we hear sentencing and typically you associate that with time behind bars. This isn't about that. Right? It's basically whether he's going to be a convicted felon and whether that's on his record or not, right?

HONIG: The judge has made as clear as possible in the ruling that he issued on Friday night that, a, he intends to sentence Donald Trump to what we call an unconditional discharge. Meaning no prison time, no probation, no fine, no community service, no nothing. And, b, that in order to accommodate Donald Trump's status of president-elect he's willing to hold the proceeding by Zoom, which is very unusual.

So yeah, that's all that's at stake with this sentencing coming up on Friday. But as you note, Pam, that would make the conviction formal. A document, a piece of paper, called a judgment of conviction would issue upon sentencing so that would formalize Donald Trump's status as a convicted felon.

BROWN: Its always so interesting the dynamic, like Trump trashed the judge, Judge Marchand, on Friday after this came out and now going back to the judge, saying, will you please deny this, postpone this sentencing. You know.

HONIG: Yeah. BROWN: What happens next if the judge denies Trump's request here? Is it just going to go on Friday?

HONIG: Definitely very unusual to see a defendant who could be days away from sentencing publicly trashing the judge who is about to impose that sentence.

BROWN: Right.

HONIG: Now if Judge Marchand says to Donald Trump's new request today, sorry, denied, we are moving forward with this sentencing as scheduled on Friday, then look for Donald Trump's team to take it to the next level.

I think they're going to go to the appeals court and say, OK, appeals court, you have to now put on pause everything happening with Judge Marchand, because again, I'm entitled to have everything stayed, everything put on hold while I appeal the immunity decision.

[11:30:00]

So we're going to see a back and forth happening between Donald Trump and the D.A. and Judge Marchand --