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Fast-Moving Wildfires Rage Across Los Angeles Area; DOJ "Intends To Release" Part Of Report On Trump's January 6 Actions; World Leaders Push Back On Trump's Expansionist Ideas. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 08, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:44]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM. And let's get right to the news.

We begin with breaking news in Los Angeles, where four major wildfires are ravaging the area. The scene is just apocalyptic.

At least two people are dead. Tens of thousands of people have evacuated. Homes are burning like kindling, smoke blanketing the city.

The Palisades Fire, which is the largest of the four. Look at that view from the air, has burned through almost 11,000 acres so far. It is zero percent contained.

The Eaton Fire has now exploded to over 10,000 acres. You can see in this video embers, which are one of the biggest threats in a wildfire flying around as the flames grew. Those of course, can go on to set other fires. Those fires being pushed now by hurricane-strength winds.

People are attempting to save their homes using buckets of water and garden hoses. The video here, recorded on a flight as it landed in Los Angeles. Goodness, what a scene.

The California governor, Gavin Newsom, has deployed the states National Guard as firefighters work in 48-hour shifts.

CNN's Stephanie Elam, she is at the Pacific Palisades fire.

Stephanie, just looking at that scene behind you, there, it looks practically apocalyptic. Tell us what you've witnessed and how authorities are responding.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Jim, I have to tell you, just getting to this location overnight was treacherous. That alone was something just to get here. I've driven to a lot of wildfires, but that experience was different with the fire burning on parts of it. Power lines down. Also, obviously, all the fire -- first responders who were out there as well to get out here.

And then when I did get out here, parts of this area back here were on fire. We watched one part of a building, some structure burned down overnight over here. And you can still maybe I don't know if you can hear it over the wind, but there still an alarm going off in this building. And then you see that deep, dark smoke coming out from over there. Something else is still burning along that building.

And at one point, the fire officials, law enforcement came and shut down Sunset Boulevard and did not want anyone to go in there. We've seen other spot fires wake up as the winds, which are just astounding. Like right now I'm even having a hard time looking at you.

Those winds just made some of these blazes even bigger overnight, and we can see that they're pushing the wind this way, which is weird, because that's the Pacific Ocean that way. And the Pacific Ocean, normally, we would feel those gentle breezes coming off the ocean. So this is a completely different experience. It is densely populated in there.

So, you know, we've talked about other wildfires, Jim, that are 10,000, 11,000 acres. The difference is how densely populated this is here in Los Angeles County and why there is such fear and such a move to get people out. What we know is that this fire so far, no one has been found dead. But they do say that the people who stayed have had some injuries. We do know that was the Eaton Fire. Two people have lost their lives.

Throughout the county, schools are closed. Firefighters have been asked to give back their time off and to report to work. We see fire trucks coming from all around the state to respond to these fires because it is taxing the system. Same thing with water. Some people have their water off right now because they need to get as much water as they can to firefighters.

So -- so this is a very active roadway. Obviously, this is why they want people to stay out of here, because the fire is still very much intense. And these winds, as you can see by looking at me, have not died down. And that means that more fire could be spread on these winds, on those embers and light fires in other places, just a very dangerous situation.

And I got to tell you, Jim, one last thing. The sky has been bizarre because there's one point when it all swirled and we were in a clear little bubble of clean air, and then it just got dark, as if it was overnight, when it was after 8:00 in the morning. I've never seen anything like this -- never, ever.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, Stephanie, please keep yourself and your team safe, because I know evacuation is the priority now for firefighters.

[15:05:01]

Thanks so much for joining us.

Joining me now is David Acuna. He's the battalion chief and public information officer for California Fire, Cal fire.

David, thanks so much for joining. We know you and your colleagues have a lot on your plate. First, let me ask you this question. I know the focus now is on

getting residents to safety even before you begin attempts to contain the fire. Are you confident that the people whose lives are under threat have been able to get out?

Because I know there was such a rush that some of the roads were crowded and there was some difficulty there.

DAVID ACUNA, BATTALION CHIEF AND PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER FOR CALIFORNIA FIRE (via telephone): Well, thank you so much for having me on.

So the first part of that is we don't have an accurate accounting yet because we haven't gotten a chance to go in there because the current life safety or the evacuation warnings and orders are currently expanding are constantly getting larger and larger.

And so we're continuing to put more resources out to protect the people.

SCIUTTO: Can you explain how these fires got so bad so quickly? I know the wind is the factor here, described as hurricane force winds here. How did this brew up so quickly?

ACUNA: Well, that is absolutely correct about the speed of the winds, but all wildland fires move for three reasons -- fuel, weather and topography. Well, the fuel in the area is like many of southern California, hasn't burned in a long time. And so, there's a lot of extra fuel on the ground. Sometimes when the houses catch on fire, they become part of the fuel.

Then we have the winds. We spoke about the weather and then the topography with the undulating canyons both in the Pacific Palisades and the Altadena area. It leads to where wind moves in an erratic direction. And when it's going 60 to 100 miles an hour, there's just no stopping it.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. Do you have any sense of when firefighters can begin to attempt to start containing the fires?

ACUNA: So those attempts are already underway. We're doing what's called an indirect attack, which means we remove the fuel away from a fire in front of the fire. However, as mentioned earlier, our first priority is to protect the people that are currently in front. So that's why we add those evacuation warnings and evacuation orders so early.

SCIUTTO: No question. Now, four fires at once putting enormous pressure on the water system there. And I understand there were some reports of fire hydrants just not having any water to fight these fires. Has that problem improved at all?

ACUNA: You know, you'd have to ask the incident management team over there at the Palisades Park. They don't actually have that information, but I know that when they are trying to extinguish the fires, utilizing water, it can become a scarce resource. SCIUTTO: January is not normally a month for fires. Governor Newsom

said there is no more fire season, but fire years these days. Is that the new reality there, that the risk of this can happen, well, just anytime?

ACUNA: Yes. Unfortunately, it really is. The last, say, eight years we have just seen an incredible increase in the number of fires. And because, you know, we had a number of fires that started on December 30th and December 31st, and here we are in the first week of January at a major fire. And this type of major fire in January has only occurred three times in the last 30 years.

SCIUTTO: Some firefighters, as we were just reporting, are working 48-hour shifts. You know, two straight days. Describe for our viewers what toll that takes on them. How -- how do they keep it up?

ACUNA: Well, you know, our goal is to ensure that every firefighter has a work rest ratio. That is appropriate so that they can be at full efficiency. What I can tell you, though, is that these dedicated members of public service will go out of their way in order to make sure that the people are being rescued, that homes are being protected, and if that, if they have the opportunity to spend a few more hours on the line until additional resources can arrive, then that is what they'll do.

SCIUTTO: Well, David, we know that a lot of firefighters, they're risking their lives to make sure the residents are safe and then to address the fire. We wish you -- we wish your teams the very best of luck.

ACUNA: Thank you so much.

SCIUTTO: Well, as we were saying, wind gusts up to 90 miles per hour have been reported across southern California. One location recorded winds in excess of 100 miles per hour.

[15:10:04]

Those fierce winds, combined with the dry conditions, as we were just describing, are fueling fires that have now already become deadly. For more on that part of the story, I'm joined by meteorologist Mike Linden.

Mike, thanks so much for coming.

Can you describe that witch's brew of conditions that has created and fueled and is fueling these fires?

MIKE LINDEN, METEOROLOGIST, MYRADAR: Jim, thank you so much for having me. First, I've got to say that, you know, these fires are incredibly dangerous and life threatening. And for the firefighters that are out literally on the front lines of this -- I mean, you're talking about some truly significant work for them.

But the biggest issue here, climatologically, is that you normally in this part of California, see rain, some of it from November until about January, but so far here in the late 2024 into early 2025, there's been none of it. So the fuel that's already on the ground and the overgrowth of that vegetation there just continues to be more of it. And if there had been even some rain during that period of time, these fires likely would not be as significant as they've unfortunately turned out to be.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. I mean, fire officials, you know, they're saying it's zero percent contained at this point. But as we were just speaking with someone from Cal Fire there said that they are beginning to take the steps prior to attempting to contain it, removing fuel, et cetera.

Do you have any sense looking at the weather map as to when or if conditions will improve in the coming days?

LINDEN: Sure. So control right now is going to be next to impossible just when you're talking about winds potentially as strong as upwards of 80, 90 miles per hour, we're talking hurricane force winds just ripping through the mountain valleys. Of course, right now you have a very large center of low pressure right over top of southern California, bringing in the cold, dry air from the Northeast.

As that air comes up and over the mountains, it warms as it begins to sink, increasing its speed. And, of course, kind of funneling down the mountain valleys. Of course, Santa Ana winds is what I'm talking about here.

Unfortunately, as that low pressure exits eastward, now looking likely to bring some snow to the Texas area. But unfortunately, as that trough begins to dig eastward, you have a ridge of high pressure setting up over top of the Pacific Northwest area and sinking toward California. So, unfortunately, it looks like conditions are likely to continue through the weekend and potentially into as early as next week.

So control again, as I mentioned, an issue, and unfortunately it does not seem weather wise that there will be any reprieve coming soon from the changes in the pressure.

SCIUTTO: And when you look at this, we will often talk about how during these major weather stories, that climate change contributes to the conditions more, longer droughts, more powerful storms, more powerful wildfires.

Can we see some of that contributing to what were witnessing before our eyes there now in the Los Angeles area?

LINDEN: Sure. I mean, there's certainly evidence to suggest that human induced climate change can play a role in situations like this. But unfortunately, as we are right now, we're stuck in that situation as it is right now with people, evacuating their homes and their property at risk. So, yes, I mean, there is evidence to suggest that that human induced climate change could potentially lead to longer and more significant droughts and unfortunately lead to situations like this. But as we're in the situation and the significant fires continue to

burn out of control, the best that we can do in this moment is, of course, work to make sure that people are as safe as they can possibly be.

SCIUTTO: No question. People literally running for their lives. Mike Linden, we appreciate your view. Thanks so much.

LINDEN: Of course. Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Well, we, of course, will continue to follow these fires throughout the show and check back with our correspondents later in the hour.

Coming up next, why we may soon see only a portion of special counsel Jack Smith's final report on his investigations into President-elect Trump.

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[15:17:30]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

In major legal news today, the attorney general, Merrick Garland, says he intends to release the first volume of special counsel Jack Smith's report on Donald Trump. That volume, focusing on the January 6th, charges against him.

The second volume focused on Trump's handling of classified documents, cannot be released so far, subject to a court order by Trump appointee Judge Aileen Cannon. This plan all revealed in a DOJ court filing today.

With me now to walk us through this Steve Vladeck, constitutional law expert, professor at Georgetown Law.

Steve, always good to have you on. Thanks so much.

STEVE VLADECK, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW EXPERT, PROFESSOR AT GEORGETOWN LAW: Thanks, Jim. Great to be with you.

SCIUTTO: All right. So lets start with volume one here. Does the DOJ have the authority to release volume one of Smith's report, the January 6th portion, or is there still debate, still possible legal maneuvering on that question?

VLADECK: So I think the answer is yes and yes, right. That DOJ has the general authority to release the report. It is currently blocked by, as you mentioned, this remarkable order from Judge Cannon.

But you know, Jim, the 11th Circuit, the federal appeals court in Atlanta is already moving very, very quickly on a request from DOJ to basically put Judge Cannon's order on hold. That would be the moment at which, you know, things would be cleared and DOJ would be free to provide at least volume one of the report to the public, redacted versions, at least, you know, the full versions to Congress. And I think that's when we'll start to see movement.

SCIUTTO: So do you -- just so I'm clear, do volume one and two move together to some degree based on how the appeals court handles this?

VLADECK: I don't think so. I mean, so the Justice Department, in its filings in the 11th Circuit, has drawn a big distinction between them, where volume one, this is the January 6th report. That's the one DOJ wants to release. It's the one that is apparently ready for release.

The second volume is the report by Jack Smith related to the prosecution before Judge Cannon, the classified documents case arising out of Mar-a-Lago. Jim, the complication there is that there are still two other defendants in that case who aren't President-elect Trump.

And so DOJ has said, and it's consistent with DOJ policy, that it would not release that report, so long as that case is still going, you know, it's under appeal right now, again, from Judge Cannon's ruling dismissing that case. That's why that report is probably not going to see the light of day anytime soon.

[15:20:02]

SCIUTTO: Should we expect these reports to include significant details about Trump's behavior and actions that we didn't already know?

VLADECK: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, Jim, as you know, there's a big difference between what prosecutors are going to put into a charging document like an indictment and all of the information that they're going to gather along the way of their investigation. The report is the latter.

The report is the comprehensive view of Jack Smith and his team of everything they found, decisions they made, why maybe particular things were not charged. For example, why was insurrection not one of the charges in the January 6th case? You know, we're going to learn a heck of a lot, at least from that January 6th report. I think the trickier question is, are we ever going to see the classified documents report? That, to me is less certain as we sit here.

SCIUTTO: All right. So we're January 8th, 12 days to the inauguration. Time is running short to say the least. Will this all be resolved in the next 12 days?

VLADECK: So I think the January 6th report will be. I mean, I think, you know, the 11th Circuit, just to give folks a sense of how quickly this is moving, you know, President Trump, President-elect Trump's lawyers had asked the 11th Circuit to have until tomorrow morning at 10:00 to respond to the emergency litigation currently unfolding in that court. And the 11th Circuit responded and said, no, file your brief by 5:00 p.m. tonight.

So, you know, Jim, I think we'll hear from the 11th circuit, perhaps as early as tomorrow. Of course, you know, at that point, President- elect Trump could go to the Supreme Court. I think the Supreme Court would move pretty quickly. So I think, at least with regard to the January 6th report to volume one, that's going to be resolved one way or the other before January 20th.

The trickier piece of this is the classified documents case, because if DOJ wins its current appeal, that case is still very much alive, at least as applied to the two co-defendants to Walt Nauta, to De Oliveira, and perhaps even as applied to President-elect Trump. And that's why I think that report is not going to be resolved and is not going to be public anytime before January 20th, perhaps for some time thereafter.

SCIUTTO: I mean, it's truly amazing that none of this saw the light of day in a courtroom. But there you have it.

Steve Vladeck, thanks so much, as always.

VLADECK: Thank you. Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, President-elect Trump has again sent world leaders reeling, this time with his bids to buy or otherwise take by force foreign territory in his sights -- Greenland, the Panama Canal, even America's neighbor to the north and sovereign country as well, Canada.

Justin Trudeau, Canada's outgoing prime minister, said there is, quote, isn't a snowballs chance in hell that happens. His message, echoed by France and the Biden administration today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: The idea expressed about Greenland is obviously not a good one. But maybe more important, it's obviously one that's not going to happen. So we probably shouldn't waste a lot of time talking about it.

JEAN-NOEL BARROT, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): You are asking me if I think the United States will invade Greenland? The answer is no. Have we entered an era that sees the return of the survival of the fittest? The answer is yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Should Americas allies be worried about Trump's threats? When I speak to people in Trump's world, they say he's quite serious.

CNN diplomatic editor Nic Robertson reports on the global reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's the image amplifying President-elect Donald Trump's latest international threat. His son, Donald Jr., landing in Greenland for a private visit.

DONALD TRUMP, JR., SON OF PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP: Just really excited to be here as his father refused to rule out taking the autonomous Danish territory by force.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need them for economic security. AAJA CHEMNITZ, MEMBER OF DANISH PARLIAMENT, GREENLAND RESIDENT:

Greenland is not for sale. Greenland will never be for sale.

ROBERTSON: Danish politicians in particular, are outraged by what many see as a Trump stunt.

CHEMNITZ: The majority in Greenland, they find it quite scary, actually, and quite uncomfortable.

ROBERTSON: The world's largest island, home to little more than 56,000 people, with huge strategic and mineral value, is trying to carve out its own place in the world and is not for sale, according to its government.

But some of its politicians do see a compromise.

KUNO FENCKER, MEMBER OF GREENLAND PARLIAMENT: We are working on creating a sovereign country, which is Greenland. If Trump is talking about a real estate agreement, the U.S. is renting a big area of land in north Greenland and it should be just a very normal to pay for that.

ROBERTSON: Across the world, in Panama, where Trump also warns force is an option to take back control of the globally vital Panama Canal. There is no negotiation to be had.

[15:25:02]

JAVIER MARTINEZ-ACHA, FOREIGN MINISTER OF PANAMA (through translator): Our canal sovereignty is not negotiable, and as part of our history of struggle and an irreversible conquest.

ROBERTSON: Canada, too, in Trump's crosshairs for annexation.

TRUMP: They should be a state.

ROBERTSON: So much rhetoric. The German chancellor appears to compare Trump with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

OLAF SCHOLZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): The principle of inviolability of borders applies to every country, regardless of whether it is to the east or west of us, every country must adhere to that.

ROBERTSON: Unlike his first term, where world leaders dismiss Trump's often bombastic rhetoric as just that, this time they seem to be preparing for more push and heavy persuasion from the incoming commander in chief.

METTE FREDERIKSEN, PRIME MINISTER OF DENMARK (through translator): There are a lot of words being spoken right now. We need to stay calm and stick to our principles.

ROBERTSON: Denmark's newly revamped royal coat of arms, a calibrated hint of that calm, the polar bear representing Greenland just got bigger. Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: All right. So what does Greenland think of Trump's pitch?

Joining me now is a member of the territory's parliament, Kuno Fencker.

Thanks so much for taking the time.

KUNO FENCKER, MEMBER OF GREENLAND PARLIAMENT: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Trump, as you know, in his first administration and now just before he begins his second term, has suggested buying Greenland. Very basic question for you. Is Greenland for sale?

FENCKER: No, of course, it's not for sale.

And, I think that those unilateral actions shouldn't be seen here in the -- in the world as we speak. Those days are over where you buy countries or buy people, and we can't be bought. And, in that sense, it's absolutely non-negotiable.

And, but we are willing to work with the U.S. on many aspects of security and defense and, even economy in regards to oil and gas and critical minerals and tourism, you know, you name it.

SCIUTTO: So you're willing to work with the U.S. So what's your reaction and what's the reaction of other members of the parliament when you hear the incoming U.S. president saying he would not rule out using military force in order to take Greenland? How do you respond to that from an ally?

FENCKER: Well, I saw the interview and there were two instances that Greenland was mentioned, and it was mentioned in conjunction with Canada and the Panama Canal. And, I will say that I do not interpret his remarks as a threat to use military force against Greenland or Denmark, but he's addressing the security concerns about the North American continent, especially the USA.

And, I can confirm that it's the utmost necessity to not be naive in regards to Russia's escalation in the Arctic and so forth, and the interest from China in regards to critical minerals. So we have to be able to securitize our island, which is, also the North American continent.

SCIUTTO: So to that point, are there legitimate concerns about how seriously Greenland and Denmark are taking concerns, security concerns about the Arctic, increasing presence there of Russia and China? Is it your view that that Greenland and Denmark should be doing more to pay attention to that threat?

FENCKER: Absolutely, absolutely. And right now, negotiations are going with our government in Greenland and the defense ministry in Denmark. And I have told them that their ambitions must be upped an ante quite

a lot because we have to have drones to see what is going on in the air. And we also have to have the possibility to see what's going on underneath the sea. And we have to ensure our critical infrastructure in regards to fiber optic cables, provide fiber optic cables to the Pituffik space base and we need the -- inspection vessels to inspect our waters, but also properly also, more capable vessels to protect the island if there should be any escalation --

SCIUTTO: Right.

FENCKER: -- in this area.

And, you know, the U.S. have had some, military bases here, air bases, Kangerlussuaq, Narsarsuaq and Kulusuk. And Greenland is building civil airports right now. And, we probably could do something more about those airports in a dual sense way where the civil population also gets something out of it.

SCIUTTO: I want to ask you about independence now, because the prime minister of Greenland said around the new year that there is the possibility of independence and some on the right in Trump's world, in this country, interpreted that as, oh, there's an opening there. Maybe Greenland wants to join us.

But can you explain the difference between those two things? Because as I understand it, there are many or some in Greenland who would like independence from Denmark, but does that mean they want to then join the U.S.?

FENCKER: I think it's a utopia to say that Greenland can be fully independent, but we want to become a sovereign state. We don't want to be annexed, like we did in 1953 by Denmark, by any other country. So it's non-negotiable. We are not for sale, but we would like to have the opportunity to even make a free association agreement with the U.S. and Denmark, even in conjunction with each other, because we need each other as allies here in this area.

And I will say that using the word independence is not used in Greenland anymore. We are using statehood or creating our sovereign state here in Greenland.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Well, Kuno Fencker, we appreciate you giving us Greenland's point of view, which is, of course, the folks we should be listening to in the midst of all this. And we appreciate you joining the show.

FENCKER: I appreciate it. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: After the break, we will be live in the Pacific Palisades once again on the wind fueled wildfires engulfing parts of Southern California right now. At least two people are dead. Thousands of acres have been burned, tens of thousands of people evacuated. We will be right back with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:35:41]

SCIUTTO: We're turning now to our top story. Multiple fires continuing to spread throughout southern California. At this point, they are not contained, zero percent containment. The flames have forced tens of thousands of people to evacuate as the fires continue to expand, some doubling or tripling in size.

CNN is on the scene in a number of places.

Joining me right now, our correspondent Gonzalo Alvarado. He's in Pacific Palisades, California.

Gonzalo, we spoke to a spokesperson for Cal Fire earlier this hour who said that firefighters are at least beginning to remove some fuel from the front line areas to begin the process of trying to contain this.

What are you seeing there or hearing in terms of firefighters' actions right now to try -- to try to get or begin to get this under control?

GONZALO ALVARADO, CNN EN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim. Well, we have seen so far we've been here since -- since the morning and we've seen that the winds have been very intense, up to maybe 60 to 70 miles per hour gust winds. And we've seen that some firefighters have had difficulties trying to put out some fires.

For example, this building behind me here, we had firefighters come here around four times trying to put it out. They -- they thought they put it out. But then there's also little flames of fires with the winds trying to, you know, ignite those fires and that -- that's the scenery that we've been seeing so far. And let me show you around here as well to my right, there's other residences here. Manchester, as you can see, there have been, you know, devastated by this, this Palisades Fire.

This is one of four fires, Jim, in L.A. County that have obligated or affected about 100,000 people. Evacuations just here in this area on around 37,000 of them have been evacuated. And the gusty winds has made it difficult for authorities to try to fight this fire by air. And its just recently right now, a few hours ago, a few minutes ago, we got note that, you know, now they're going to start, you know, fighting the fires through the air.

But the firefighters have worked up to 36 to 48 hour shifts, Jim. That tells you the intensity of these fires. Now, the evacuations took were sent out as quick as possible, and many residents didn't have the -- the freedom to, you know, leave their homes right away.

It was so intense that this winds have made it very, very challenging for these firefighters. They're up to 1,400 firefighters trying to put out these four fires. The Palisades here, just to give you an update on them. It has consumed more than 11,800 acres.

And the one Eden, which is on the northeast of L.A. County that has grown up to 10,600 acres. Two people have died there, according to L.A. County Sheriff Robert Luna and also Governor Gavin Newsom. He said on his X account that the California national guard have been deployed to these areas to try to assist in any way possible.

Now, firefighters are battling as they're fighting, you know, at all costs. These fires, Jim, and let me tell you something, I've covered many fires, but nothing like this. And this fire here, the Palisades has been categorized. You know, one of the biggest and destructive fires just in L.A. County, and also one of the biggest and biggest fires, the fifth biggest fire in throughout California.

So the winds are supposedly, according to the weather service, they're going to try to slow down as we, you know, progress in the day. So hopefully, that's going to be of, you know, of great impact for the firefighters to try to put it out. But right now, its zero percent containment on the four fires here in L.A. County.

SCIUTTO: Well, we can only hope. Gonzalo Alvarado, thanks so much for joining us. Please keep your team safe. Some of those pictures you were looking at there just a short time ago, those were live pictures of the fire as it continues to spread.

As we go to break now, let's take a live look at the late President Jimmy Carter, his casket lying in state at the U.S. Capitol. He will remain there until his funeral services, which are tomorrow.

Coming up, the last progressive evangelical. My next guest says the President Carter's death marks the end of a distinguished strain of religious life in this country's politics.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:43:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: There have been a couple of times when I've questioned my faith very seriously. One was when my father died. He was the first member of my family who passed away, quite young. The other one time was when I lost the governor's election in 1966.

And the -- and the guy that beat me was Lester Maddox, a racist who won the race because he would stand in front of his restaurant with a pick handle. And anybody who came up that was black, he would beat him over the head with it. And that won the election. And I thought that God had betrayed me because I thought I'd be better for Georgia.

LARRY KING, CNN HOST: What do you think now? Did God betray you or he didn't?

CARTER: No, no, no, no, I'm much more mature in my faith. I don't have any doubt that god answers all the prayers. Sometimes the answer is yes. Sometimes the answer is no, and sometimes the answer is, you've got to be kidding.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: Well, that was Jimmy Carter back in 1997, speaking with Larry King right here on CNN.

As a devout evangelical, the 39th presidents unwavering faith helped shape his legacy both in and out of the White House. There is sure to be a lot of talk on his faith at his funeral tomorrow at the Washington National Cathedral.

Afterwards, his body will be taken back to his home in Plains, Georgia. But right now, you can see here his casket lying in state at the Capitol rotunda, as many are coming to pay their respects.

Joining us now is Randall Balmer. He is the chair of the department of religion at Dartmouth College, author of "Redeemer: The Life of Jimmy Carter".

Randall, thanks so much for joining.

RANDALL BALMER, CHAIR, DEPARTMENT OF RELIGION AT DARTMOUTH COLLEGE: My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: First, I want to begin with Carter, and we got a sense of it there from his answer to Larry King all those years ago. But help explain how Carter's faith shaped his political career and his political positions.

BALMER: Well, he referred briefly to his the death of his father. That was an important turning point, as he suggested, because he decided at that point he wanted to return to Plains, resign his commission in the Navy, and try to do good in the community the way his father, Mr. Earl, as he was known in the community, had done.

[15:45:06]

And so he joins the Sumter County Board of Education. He becomes much more aware of racial disparities in Sumter County. And this propels his political career. And he decides to really take on these issues, particularly the issue of race and segregation, because he saw that as being his duty is part of his understanding of the faith.

SCIUTTO: You call Carter the last progressive evangelical. Can you help explain? After he won white evangelicals when he won the presidency in 1976, how did he ultimately then lose those voters four years later?

BALMER: Well, the standard narrative is that these evangelical voters mobilize politically in response to the Roe v. Wade decision of January 22nd, 1973. And I can say without fear of contradiction, that was not the case. Evangelicals considered abortion a Catholic issue throughout the 1970s.

What mobilized them politically was when the Internal Revenue Service began to challenge the tax exempt status of places like Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina, and also so-called segregation academies, such as the one that Jerry Falwell had formed in Lynchburg, Virginia, back in 1967. That is what mobilized these evangelical leaders against Jimmy Carter,

had nothing to do with abortion, and they decided to turn against him and blame him, in effect, for that IRS ruling, even though, in fact, he had nothing to do with it.

SCIUTTO: Hmm. Today, white evangelicals are virtually synonymous with the GOP. Can you explain that shift over time, especially in the age of Trump, right, when at least some evangelicals have some trouble reconciling that support with Trump's rhetoric, his behavior with women, his attempts to overturn the election? How did that -- that shift happen?

BALMER: I think it began really in 1980 when carter again, a born again Southern Baptist Sunday school teacher, very much evangelical -- evangelical to his core, was rejected by leaders of the religious right in favor of Ronald Reagan. And that began to move toward the, frankly, the far right precincts of the Republican Party, turning against Carter.

And I think the issue was race. That is to say that the religious right began in the 1970s to -- in defense of racial segregation. And I think you draw the line between those beginnings in the 1970s and Donald Trump, who has become their political messiah for the last three elections, winning four out of five white evangelical votes. And I think you see a pattern.

SCIUTTO: You said that with Carter's passing, the far right shift of political evangelicalism is complete. Is there anything that disrupts that, do you think? I mean, is there anything that a Trump as president in a second term could do? Mass deportations, separation of migrant families, et cetera., that could disrupt that? Or do you see it as somewhat written in stone at this point?

BALMER: Well, I hope it's not written in stone. I guess as a person of faith, I would say that the way to reverse that would be some sort of confession on the part of these white evangelicals who I think really have betrayed their roots, going back to Jesus in the new testament, his call to care for the least of these and earlier generations of evangelicals here in the United States also were very concerned about those on the margins of society.

They were engaged in prison reform efforts. They honored and worked for equality for women, including voting rights, back in the 19th century. Considered a rather radical idea at that time, they were very much interested in public education as a way of trying to improve the fortunes of those on the lower rungs of society, and all or most of that has been lost, I'm afraid, with the ascendance of the religious right since the late 1970s.

SCIUTTO: You describe race as being central to the original shift away from Carter and from Democrats. Is race still -- it's a difficult question, but is race still a factor?

BALMER: I think it is. I think you have to look at -- at Donald Trump and the fact that he, as I said, lured four out of five white evangelicals to vote for him in the last three elections. I mean, that's a pretty strong statement. And this is a man who, of course, began his political career challenging the birth certificate of America's first Black president.

[15:50:01]

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

BALMER: That's not even to mention a lot of his rhetoric talking about immigrants and other people of color. I think it's pretty clear.

SCIUTTO: It's the world before us.

Randall Balmer, thanks so much. We appreciate you joining us.

BALMER: My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: Well, coming up next, more on those deadly wildfires in southern California. The Palisades Fire, as we mentioned, zero percent contained at this point, and the winds still whipping up the flames.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: These are live pictures from Los Angeles County. The fires still raging there, the smoke blanketing the sky. And you can see emergency services on the scene there.

CNN meteorologist Chad Myers joins us now.

Chad, we've talked a lot in this last hour, and I know you've been talking about this, just the tornado like winds that are fueling this fire. Is there any sense as to when or if those winds might die down?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, there was nothing good about the picture you just showed. Obviously, something was on fire, except that the smoke was going up.

Okay, Jim, that makes a big difference because it isn't blowing at a right angle to the fire. It's not just getting blown straight down the street because the winds have died off an awful lot, like maybe by two thirds in some spots, but someone's home right there.

Yes, we did have winds to 100 mile per hour gusts. We did. And here's why. After dark in the L.A. basin, something very strange happens. It doesn't happen like this in Nebraska or Alabama or whatever. At night when the sun sets in those areas, 95 percent of America, the winds die off. Well, here, because of the cold desert air.

Think about this. The desert gets very cold at night. That air wants to sink. Hot air balloon wants to go up. Cold air wants to sink, like opening the freezer door. You see that air hit the ground.

Well, when the air sinks, it can't go any farther than the dirt. And so it has to splash out. Like you just dumped a bucket of water on the ground. Well, that splash out comes right through the canyons. So there's this extra push of air because of that cold air in the desert. Now the deserts are warming up with the sunshine, so that air is not

splashing down. It's rising. So, now, the difference. The wind speed coming down, because the difference between the warm and the cold, the warm going up kind of relaxes that pressure difference.

But here are the fires we have now, the Eaton, Hurst, obviously the Woodley and the Palisades. Winds are somewhere still around 20 to 30, even 40 in the higher elevations. So it is still windy and it will still be this type of wind for the next few hours.

But look at what happens tonight. It does relax. We don't have that same type of situation happening tonight that we did last night.

Now we will have it tomorrow night down near San Diego. We're going to have to watch that for a different place. Now if we don't have any sparks, don't have any ignition. There won't be any problem. The wind will blow.

But we still have that wind here in places that are still on fire. We're not going to get 100 percent containment, Jim, for weeks or maybe a month. There's so many sparks out there, so many hotspots.

SCIUTTO: Well, just the sense that the winds may be dying, at least for a bit. That's good news, and we appreciate you explaining how it all works.

As always, Chad Myers, thanks so much.

MYERS: The best part about the wind dying, I'll be really brief, is that the airplanes and the helicopters can get in the air, and now we have air support.

SCIUTTO: Yep, that makes sense. Chad Myers, thank you.

Of course, we'll continue to follow the fires.

We do want to leave you on a lighter note today, as President Biden announced he became a great grandfather. Today, his granddaughter Nomi gave birth to a 10 pound, four ounce baby boy earlier in Los Angeles. Biden is the first president to serve as a great grandfather, making some history, some family history in his final days in office.

Thanks so much to all of you for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.