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At Least Five Killed As Thousands Flee L.A. Wildfires; Former Presidents Reunite At President Carter's Funeral; Trump Makes False Claim Blaming Governor Newsom For Fires; Venezuelan Opposition Leader Machado Detained At Protest In Caracas Ahead Of Maduro's Inauguration Friday; Biden Eulogizes Carter, Says "Enduring Attribute" Was "Character". Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 09, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:54]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.

And let's get right to the news.

Apocalyptic, a war zone, Armageddon, some of the words residents are using to describe the destruction, the devastation caused by those ongoing wildfires, fires tearing through Los Angeles. The Palisades Fire has exploded in size, burning now through 17,000 acres. Look at all those homes destroyed. It's the most destructive blaze in L.A. history.

Entire neighborhoods gone. Five people are dead, a number officials believe will rise given nearly 180,000 people remain under evacuation orders.

Firefighters just overwhelmed battling at least five major fires at once around L.A., there are estimates that some 2,000 homes, businesses and other buildings have been reduced to ashes. That's just the estimate at this point.

CNN's Kyung Lah is in Altadena, California.

Kyung, we've seen you there on those front lines since the beginning here. And I wonder, are you seeing any signs of relief and residents returning?

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We'll start with relief. The biggest thing that will help firefighters today is, you know, you can see there's a little bit, right? There's stuff flying in the air, but it's very, very mild. That's because the winds have died down. It is night and day today versus the way it was before.

And on the issue of whether anybody's coming back, that's what we're seeing across this community here in Altadena. I want to try to be respectful, but you can see that there's just a family. There's a man standing on the sidewalk. Residents, if they can get beyond the fire line to see their homes, they are coming back to -- to this. And you can -- each one of these driveways, you know, this is -- this

is a community that I know very, very well. This is a middle class community. Each of these homes, and I've been inside one of the homes on the street. This is Harriet street.

It is three bedroom, two bath homes all down this area. Each one of these chimneys that you see up here, each one of these chimneys represents a home. And each one of those homes has a family or a life attached to it.

And so what families are discovering as they do return home is this horror of what do you do next? Is my insurance going to cover this? Where do I live? Where I try to figure out if my kids public school didn't burn down.

So those are some of the issues that people in this area, in this middle class, working class community, also with a lot of retirees, they have to figure out what they're going to do. And it's not just this street. If you can look down over here as Lionel swings around, it's every single block here in Altadena.

And so that is what's happening. You can see that man there. Yeah. You know, these are people who are trying to figure out what they have left.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. I mean, all the -- all the memories, right, that go up in smoke, that's one concern. But then just how long would it take to rebuild if you can rebuild? When I hear that figure, 2,000 homes and businesses and buildings destroyed, given the aerial shots we've seen of entire neighborhoods just gone, is that considered a low estimate at this point? Could it be more than that?

LAH: I mean, it -- it's hard. It's hard to figure out when you drive around these -- these neighborhoods. It's really difficult to know if that is an undercount. Something else that may change as well, Jim. There are disabled people I know who live in this community, you know, people who are confined to wheelchairs, who may not have gotten out.

So what's going to happen when firefighters and canines are able to go in and find people who may be missing? Right now, the death toll here in Altadena is five.

[15:05:03]

Will that rise? The sheriff at this point believes that it will. We are hoping that it won't. But that's the grim next step.

SCIUTTO: Is there any estimate of the number of missing at this point, or is that unknown as well?

LAH: Still unknown.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

LAH: It was -- I have to tell you, it's been so chaotic.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

LAH: Everyone I know has been scattered across California, you know, in hotels as far away as halfway to Las Vegas. So it -- worse -- I'm just in my circle of friends, we're trying to reach out to each other.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

LAH: I think as far as who knows who's missing? At this point, it's too early to know.

SCIUTTO: Well, Kyung, I appreciate it. I know this is your home as well. Take care of each other and be safe.

Well, those strong Santa Ana winds we've spoken about so much, they've been fueling the fires in southern California.

Meteorologist Chad Myers, we're going to bring him in now.

Chad, you did such a great job yesterday explaining how those winds are formed. But also when we were speaking yesterday, 24 hours ago, you were seeing signs that they were abating somewhat. I wonder if you've continued to see that and you expect that to continue.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Tomorrow will be the best day of the rest of many. In fact, wind speeds will be in the single digits, five, three, seven, zero, completely calm. That's going to allow those air crews to get a much better handle on the spot fires that are still burning.

But I'm going to answer a question that you asked, Kyung, because I have been looking at these aerials. The number 2,000 for homes isn't going to be close. It's going to be significantly higher than that.

I do -- I do predictions for a living, but I can also count city blocks. I can -- the problem with what happened in Altadena is that these houses weren't separated by 50 feet on an acre. These houses were separated by five feet on a quarter acre, and they all were next to each other, and they all caught each other on fire.

So here's high pressure to the north, low pressure to the south. The winds blew from the desert over the mountains. Now, this is not an unusual event. It has a name Santa Ana. If it didn't have a name, then we go, oh, well, this never happens. It happens all the time.

What hasn't really happened all the time is that they haven't had an inch of rain in L.A., as in one day since March. This should be the rainy season. This should not be happening right now and they haven't had any rain in their rainy season. So when the wind blows, you get a spark. All of a sudden, you have a firestorm.

And the numbers acres, you know, I grew up in Nebraska and 640 acres is a square mile. You do the division, all that. We're talking 30 miles of everything being gone. Today is still a windy day. Tomorrow is not. Tomorrow is the day to get out there and do the things you want to do. Maybe even go back and see if your house is there. If the authorities

allow you still today, 20 to 30, that's not a great day for a fire. I mean, we still don't want 20 to 30 mile per hour winds, but as we set the clocks past midnight tonight, things die off.

In fact, some of the winds actually shift directions. The problem this morning, Jim, was that because we had an inversion, which means that the temperature profile in the atmosphere wouldn't allow the smoke out, like putting a lid on a boiling pot. All that smoke stayed right there at the surface, and the air quality was the worst in the world there in Los Angeles County.

It gets a little bit better tomorrow, but we still have those air fire problems here. Everything is. Dr. Gupta was saying everything was burning. I was watching a break shop burn. So there's brake fluid and there's asbestos, you know, brake pads.

There's -- everything is burning in these areas still, or at least semi-metallic if you don't -- hopefully, we're not using asbestos anymore, but some still do for some certain purposes. But so many things, not just the smoke of a forest fire, but the smoke of a home that was on fire and all the things that are in those homes from -- from LP records that are made from petroleum, right?

I mean, there's just -- it's -- this is not just a campfire by any stretch of the imagination, the air that the people there are breathing is toxic.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, yeah, listen, insulation, right? All the things that go into a home.

Chad Myers, we do appreciate it. Hope for more good news from the weather.

Well, joining us now is David Acuna is battalion chief, public information officer for CalFire.

David, good to have you back.

I wonder if you're seeing and your teams are seeing what Chad Myers was just describing there, that the winds have been dying down and therefore are the fires dying down somewhat.

Well, see, now, that's a complicated question because as Chad mentioned, not only are the winds dying down from the north and the east, but they're picking up from the west and the south.

DAVID ACUNA, BATTALION CHIEF AND PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER FOR CALFIRE: So as they shift direction now, the line behind which was the part of the fire that already burned, is now going to be the front of the fire. And so that is where our crews are being diligent to make sure they take advantage of every opportunity to slow that down. Having aircraft is going to be a huge benefit.

SCIUTTO: The Eaton and Palisades Fire as we understand it, are still at zero percent containment, given the weather changes now and some improvement in some areas. Are firefighters able to begin to -- to get them under control?

ACUNA: So the way we define containment is that we are confident that there will be no ability for the fire to cross the current line. The challenge with us establishing that it's, oh, 10, 20, 30 percent contained is that right now, as I mentioned, if I were to tell you that the north east side of the fire is contained, that makes sense, until the wind shifts and then it pushes against that.

And then if we do in fact have another red flag event, early next week or late into the weekend, then the current head of the fire is going to be open line. So the reason we say that is because we don't -- we can't say that we have it under control yet. And when you look at the fuel, we're not talking about trees and brush. It's houses and petroleum products.

SCIUTTO: Yep. And that's a lot of fuel as we've seen. It burns quickly.

You heard our reporter Kyung Lah there pose a question, a concern really that are there missing folks who, as your teams get out into those burned homes, are they concerned they're going to find people who did not make it? Do you have any way to quantify the number of missing at this point?

ACUNA: Unfortunately, no. That is going to be a very detailed and delicate process as we go in to inspect these structures that were damaged and destroyed. There is going to be a component of whether its search dogs or other responders determining whether there are any people inside.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, yeah. Well, its difficult work and I'm sorry your teams have to go through that.

Before we go, I wonder what is your greatest need right now to fight these fires?

ACUNA: Our greatest need is the publics help. We need the public to understand that they have to help us prevent one less spark. Don't do your normal hazard reduction burning right now. There's too much wind. Don't be mowing at any time during the day. The grass will wait. Don't spark anything by hitting a rock.

And be cautious and all the other ways, because 95 percent of all fires are started by humans. So we need their help to allow us to focus on these fires and not have new ones pop up.

SCIUTTO: Do you -- since you bring that up, do you have any sense of what caused these fires?

ACUNA: No, we're still in rescue mode, literally. We have people and the public who are still in front of these fires. We continue to add evacuation warnings and evacuation orders. So until we have a chance to really dig down on that, all of our resources are going to go to life safety.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. Well, David Acuna, we wish you and your teams the best of luck. We know they got a lot of hard work to do.

ACUNA: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: We will, of course, continue to follow the deadly fires throughout the hour. We will have much more on the fight as well to stop them.

Coming up, the late President Jimmy Carter was honored today with a funeral at the National Cathedral here in Washington. His body is now on its way back to his home in Plains, Georgia. We're going to speak about his life and his legacy when we come back.

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SCIUTTO: One hundred years of life celebrated today at the state funeral for the late President Jimmy Carter, where world leaders, family and friends, several former U.S. presidents, an incoming president as well, current president remembered a man whose life was defined by honesty, decency and faith.

Eulogies from grandchildren, aides and presidents, and former political rivals as well, commemorated Carter's relentless fight for human rights, public health, respect, world peace that extended well beyond his four years in the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON CARTER, JIMMY CARTER'S GRANDSON: In my 49 years, I never perceived a difference between his public face and his private one. He was the same person, no matter who he was with or where he was. Sometimes I feel and felt like I shared my grandfather with the world. Today is one of those days but really, he shared the world with me.

STEVEN FORD, GERALD FORD'S SON: It's a long way between Grand Rapids, Michigan, and Plains, Georgia. But distances have a way of vanishing when measured in values rather than miles, and it was because of our shared values that Jimmy and I respected each other as adversaries, even before we cherished one another as dear friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The farewell to a passing president is also a reunion for the very exclusive club of current and former presidents, all of whom were present today, a remarkable scene to see bitter opponents, rarely in the same room together, rarely shoulder to shoulder. But there they were.

CNN's chief national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, was covering it this morning. He's with me here now to discuss.

I want to begin with, what were the hopeful, respectful points of this ceremony, which were to hear not just his family members, but his former political rivals or the sons of former political rivals. Describe how he had this mutual respect among folks, even when they were from different parties.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Without question, I mean, talk about an absolutely different time in our country. There's no doubt that its impossible to sort of imagine that now in that -- from 1976, when Jimmy Carter beat Gerald Ford, and then you had Steven Ford there delivering that eulogy and saying through even a defeat, they became good friends. And they -- the reason they became friends is they actually were attending a funeral together for Anwar Sadat, I believe, and they were caught on a plane for a long time, and they were talking and they -- Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter became very good, lifelong friends.

[15:20:05]

So impossible to imagine that now, but watching the presidents club, as we call it, you can see the images right there. It has been, really, the tension is infused with it now because of Donald Trump. He has often not participated. He has criticized all of those from his party and not. He and Barack Obama, though former President Obama were seated next to each other. So they made small talk.

SCIUTTO: Right.

ZELENY: What do you do at a funeral? And we will find out, I'm sure what they talked about, they were both smiling. But when you just think about it, this is the -- Donald Trump who is the businessman who questioned the -- the right for Obama to run for president for reelection. He questioned his citizenship.

SCIUTTO: He questioned the results of an election that he lost repeatedly and still does.

So separate from that cordial environment you were describing to me in the break, a less cordial moment. Can you can you share it?

ZELENY: Look, it was interesting. I mean, Vice President Mike Pence, former Vice President Pence and Donald Trump have not been in the same room together for four years. And so, of course, this is the week of January 6th. This has been in the news and discussed a lot the events of that day.

And the Pences hold the Trumps largely responsible, particularly, Mrs. Pence. Karen Pence sat as Donald Trump and Melania Trump walked up, and the former vice president just stood to give a handshake. Sort of a frosty moment. She did not turn their direction.

And that was something that was really extraordinary in the sense that the feelings are still raw because of how he was treated, because of the actual threats on his life. But I think when you sort of step back away from all of it, I was struck in the eulogy. I think President Biden perhaps summed up Jimmy Carter the best, and this was about Jimmy Carter, after all. Never mind, of course, the interplay there.

He said, today, many think he was from a bygone era, but in reality he saw well into the future. And that, I think, is something that this, you know, nuclear engineer who became a president was doing on climate change and putting solar panels on the White House. Yeah, 40 years ago. Yep. And that that was pretty extraordinary.

So this was a moment for Washington to sort of sort of relive a bygone era. But next week starts a much different one.

SCIUTTO: No question. Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much for giving us a view from inside the room as we reflect on President Jimmy Carter's numerous achievements and legacies. One noteworthy aspect is his influence on U.S.-China relations, while he was president and after as well.

Joining us now to delve into this is Joseph Torigian. He is an associate professor at American University and a research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution. His upcoming book, "The Party's Interests Come First", tell the deeply personal story of Chinese President Xi Jinping's father, exploring his pivotal role in the Chinese communist party's history.

Thanks so much for joining us. I'm, of course, fascinated by the topic of China. Having spent a lot of time there myself.

Many credit Carter's work normalizing relations with China. And folks can forget because, of course, it was Nixon who went to China, but it was Carter who later in the '70s, normalized relations. They think of that as one of his greatest foreign policy achievements.

I wonder if you believe that still holds given where we are today in the relationship between the U.S. and China.

JOSEPH TORIGIAN, RESEARCH FELLOW, STANFORD UNIVERSITY'S HOOVER INSTITUTION: So the reason for normalization taking place in 1979, several years after Richard Nixon's trip to China, was because of domestic politics within the United States. But ultimately, there were strong forces bringing the two countries together at that time that no longer exist today. The first was the common opposition to the Soviet Union, and it feels like a long time ago to think about how in 1979, it was China that thought the United States was not doing enough to oppose Moscow.

And the second reason was Deng Xiaoping, who was returning to power around the time of normalization, had concluded that since World War Two, all of the countries who had been on the side of the United States had developed, while all of those countries who had sided with the Soviet Union had failed.

SCIUTTO: It's notable. Now, listen, no one would -- would begrudge a world leader's attempt to develop a relationship with another power. And by the way, we should note this was -- this was until, well, really the last ten years or so, a bipartisan approach to China, Democratic and Republican presidents who sought to engage, even as China was growing more powerful and more aggressive in its tactics against -- against the United States.

And, of course, now it's a bipartisan approach to China to be much more confrontational. And I wonder -- what did Jimmy Carter think of that in his later years? Did he think that that shift was delayed? Did he think it was the right shift? Did he think it was overreacting? TORIGIAN: So it's not exactly clear what Jimmy Carter thinks about

what has been going on over the last few years, but it's certainly the case that in 1979, the U.S. administration had concluded that some way or another, there had to be a relationship with the People's Republic of China.

Now, certainly, people have wondered whether or not engagement with Beijing was a failure. But at the time, I think there wasn't a sense of a possibility that China would become what it is today and that for politicians who are looking at their immediate concerns, it was the Soviet Union that they saw as the real reason to get the China relationship, right, at that time.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, and of course, China and Russia now have this no limits partnership as we describe it. And increasingly, they're acting together around the world against U.S. interests.

I want to talk about Taiwan because part of the normalization of relations with China was to recognize China as -- as the one China policy, communist China, the CCP, the Beijing, Beijing, the mainland China as China, as opposed to what had previously been the case, which was Taiwan.

Given where things stand right now, with China's increasing threats against Taiwan, President Biden, while he was in office, did something no president had done before, was explicitly say that the U.S. would defend Taiwan militarily if China were to invade. It is very much an open question as to whether Trump would consider doing the same.

Where does it stand now, and do you believe that that recognition should change? That perhaps the one-China policy should change now.

TORIGIAN: So the foundation to normalization in 1979 was a decision by the United States to end its defense treaty with Taiwan, to remove its troops. And that is the other legacy of Carter is that even though he established relations with Beijing, there was an explicit conclusion within the White House that that did not mean that the United States was going to give Taiwan to China, which meant that the United States was going to continue to supply weapons to Taiwan. And it was just a few short months after normalization was achieved, that the United States Congress passed the Taiwan Relations Act, which, of course, commits the United States to providing the weapons for Taiwan to defend itself and to address any attempts by China to use force to unify with Taiwan.

Now, Biden, as you've said on a number of occasions, has changed that strategic ambiguity, which was that the United States wouldn't say whether or not it would come to support Taiwan. And, of course, it was precisely that ambiguity that made normalization possible in the first place.

SCIUTTO: Given where U.S.-China policy stands today and again, a bipartisan one, do you believe that we're a long way away, or perhaps that that carter was one of the last U.S. presidents seeking to build ties with China, as opposed to reduce them? TORIGIAN: So the United States believed that through engagement with

China, ultimately, there would be forces created within their society that would push them towards democracy. Now, that wasn't the only reason for a relationship to grow between Washington and Beijing.

But what's interesting is that if you look at what people around Xi Jinping say is that that policy was actually working and that what Xi Jinping has been doing over the last few years, which has led to such a deterioration in the relationship with Washington, is that he needed to react to what was successful, essentially a successful American policy to engage in a way that would threaten communist party leadership.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. Well, Joseph Torigian, thanks so much for joining and sharing important insights on carters legacy as it relates to China.

TORIGIAN: Thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: And just as we were speaking there, we got new pictures in to CNN from Fort Moore in Georgia. This is the arrival of the late president's casket in Georgia, where he will then soon be taken from Fort Moore to Plains, Georgia, his home, where he will be buried, just the latest stop on a long day, a week of a tribute to the former president, who passed away at the age of 100.

After the break, we are live again in southern California, where five people are confirmed dead, many more injured, as multiple fires continue to burn. The fire chief there calling the Palisades Fire alone one of the most destructive natural disasters in L.A. history, where the progress stands right now on beginning to get them under control. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:33:19]

SCIUTTO: We continue, of course, to follow the fires still burning through Los Angeles. It's now become the most destructive series of fires in the city's history. Nearly 180,000 people remain under evacuation orders. Thousands of homes, businesses and buildings have been destroyed. They still haven't finished counting, frankly.

CNN's Julia Vargas Jones is on the ground there.

Julia, I understand you -- you're speaking to a homeowner, one of the many who, sadly, have lost their homes.

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Jim, look, we've been -- we've been here doing some live shots for a little bit of time, and I've been showing these homes as an example of what people are coming home to, to just explain that just now, we're getting a sense of the devastation of what that meant for almost 200,000 people to be under evacuation orders.

And this is the homeowner.

Hi, sir, I'm Julia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Matthew Konetchy (ph).

VARGAS JONES: Matthew Konetchy (ph). Thank you so much for speaking with us, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No problem.

VARGAS JONES: You said that you came here yesterday before. Tell us, what is it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we -- we snuck in yesterday while the house was engulfed, and, just got a couple pictures and got out. The firemen were doing the best they could. Really not a whole lot they could -- they could have done other than what they did. They saved some of the neighbors' houses. But --

VARGAS JONES: How does it feel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This house was -- this house was in our family for 57 years.

VARGAS JONES: Oh, gosh. I'm so sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got out 4:00 a.m. the night before. There was so much smoke that it woke us up.

[15:35:02]

We came out the door, out our front door, and there was. The smoke was so dense you could not see to the middle of the street.

My son said, dad, we got to go, threw two pairs of pants, two shirts and some shoes and left. Where did you go?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I went to Baldwin Park, to my girlfriend's home. They went to my sister's home in Fullerton.

VARGAS JONES: Okay. How do you feel now? I mean, what's next for you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's devastating. Well, you know, luckily, the house is insured. You make a claim, you rebuild, you start over again.

VARGAS JONES: Fifty-seven years, though.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been a long time. Three generations.

VARGAS JONES: I'm so sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's tough. It's tough.

VARGAS JONES: I'm sorry, sir. Thank you so much for speaking with us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you so much. Thank you very much.

VARGAS JONES: Good luck to you and your family. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God bless everybody in Altadena.

VARGAS JONES: Thank you, sir.

Jim, that's -- 57 years is a long time. And look, we've seen people coming in and just grappling with that. I mean, he said, you know, the neighbors -- the neighbors' homes were saved. It's just -- it's the luck of the draw, you know, and its part of these kinds of natural disasters. There's no path to a fire. It's kind of -- it's kind of up to fate in that way, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. There's no wisdom or rationale for which homes burn and which don't, frankly, and I think of all the memories that they must have had in three generations in that home, that poor guy, that poor family.

Julia Vargas Jones, thanks for bringing us a piece of what we're seeing take place there.

I want to speak now to Stephanie Pincetl. She's a professor at UCLA's Institute of Environment and Sustainability.

Stephanie, thanks so much.

I mean, of course, this is primarily a human tragedy, but invariably we need to talk about causes here because that helps you address the next one or do the best to do so or prevent the next one. Here's a very basic question. Has climate change contribute to the conditions which caused this fire, or made it bigger, or helped fuel it based on what you know?

STEPHANIE PINCETL, FOUNDING DIRECTOR, CALIFORNIA CENTER FOR SUSTAINABLE COMMUNITIES: Certainly it did. California and southern California has always had fires. It's always had floods. And we have always had pretty extreme weather. But climate change just exacerbates those peaks.

And we had an enormous amount of rain last year, which, you know, built up an enormous amount of vegetation. And then we had no rain at all. And it became very, very dry.

And these absolutely extreme winds that blew -- blew an ember. And the fire started and it was impossible to stop. So, yes, absolutely.

SCIUTTO: It seems to be those peaks and valleys that helped drive so much of this, the extremes, as I'm sure you're aware, the right is blaming the severity of this fire on water policy and forest clearance.

Can you help us understand what the science actually shows?

PINCETL: Well, the science actually shows that we don't have forests in the Santa Monica Mountains. We have chaparral. So wrong ecosystem, wrong -- wrong geography to begin with.

And secondly, the question of water is a little bizarre. The department of water and power of Los Angeles was built to provide domestic water. It was not built to provide water for fires because it wasn't necessary.

And so, it's not about the absolute shortage of water at all. It's just that the infrastructure didn't match the need and was not made to match the need, because the need didn't exist. I would also say that under other circumstances, you would have had helicopters and big planes dropping water on the flames, which is what happens in most fires, except that the wind is much, much, much too strong. And it was extremely smoky.

And so, to blame the fire on those -- on those -- on those things is shows a vast amount of ignorance, actually. And it's very -- it's a facile. It was facile.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, ignorance with the political motivation.

I wonder what role building methods and materials played in the fuel for this, for this fire. Can you help us understand that?

PINCETL: Sure. Houses that were built -- most of the houses that burned, I would argue, probably did not comply to the most recent fire code, which requires, you know, the closing of the eaves, changing the roof materials, a double pane windows and so on and so forth. The construction is old, was old for most of them, particularly in Altadena and not -- not thoughtful in terms of the potential for burning up by fire. In addition to which, you know, the land use itself is really a problem, particularly in the Palisades building out into that highly flammable area.

Altadena is a much older, older neighborhood and did stop actually. It wasn't a sprawling out into the WUI because there's a national forest right there. So not the same between the Palisades and Altadena, but clearly the building stock is not built for this kind of situation.

SCIUTTO: So many factors contribute.

Stephanie Pincetl, thanks so much for helping us understand the science behind all of this.

PINCETL: My pleasure. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, even as the deadly fires continue to ravage communities, threaten lives around Los Angeles, President-elect Donald Trump and many of his allies wasted no time to renew Trump's long standing feud with California Governor Gavin Newsom and perhaps even the state of California, spreading misinformation and disinformation about the disaster.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's very sad because I've been trying to get Gavin Newsom to allow water to come. They had no water in the fire hydrants today in Los Angeles. It was a terrible thing. And we're going to get that done. It's going to finally be done. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: All right. Facts still matter. And we have someone who keeps track of them, CNN's Daniel Dale.

So Trump there claimed there was no water in the fire hydrants. He also claimed there were no planes to fight the fire. Why is that not true?

DANIEL DALE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: So it is true, as we've heard on CNN and elsewhere, that there were dry fire hydrants in one particular high elevation, hilly part of Los Angeles known as Pacific Palisades. Water did run dry for logistical technical reasons related to the elevation, the geography of the area. But it is not true that Los Angeles, writ large, had no water in the hydrants. There were water in the other hydrants elsewhere in this giant, sprawling metro area.

And it's also not true that there were no planes in the air. The planes were briefly grounded because of those high winds we've been hearing about. Then they were granted the all clear, okay, yesterday and they got back up there armed with again water.

SCIUTTO: And, of course, it's those heavy winds that help fuel the fires as well, made them so bad.

Trump also said that President Biden is leaving office with FEMA with no money.

DALE: Yeah, he said this as well in the fall after Hurricane Helene. Wasn't true then. It's not true now.

So it is true that the series of natural disasters last year depleted FEMA's disaster relief fund, which is so critical. But after the Biden administration made a request to Congress for more money, Congress passed a supplemental bill granting tens of billions more, 29 billion more for that fund.

I spoke to FEMA yesterday after Trump made that claim. They said at present that fund disaster relief fund currently has about $27 billion. That might prove inadequate for the needs of the disasters coming this year, whatever they may be. But it's certainly not no money, as Trump said on social media.

SCIUTTO: And it's a good point because you see deliberate disinformation, not just in one natural disaster. But we saw the same in Hurricane Helene with all that was going on out in that western part of the state. Trump also has directed, as we saw there, a lot of his attention towards Gavin Newsom, blaming his leadership and policy specifically.

DALE: Yeah. And look, like as a fact checker, I'm not here to absolve Gavin Newsom. He might well have done any number of, you know, might have done poor preparation, might be responding poorly. I don't personally know. But the specific criticisms that the president-elect is offering are just not true. I brought one of his social media posts about Newsom to an expert on California water policy yesterday. That expert, Jeffrey Mount, a hydrologist, said none of this is true. It was a lengthy post, said none of this is true.

For example, Trump keeps trying to link the firefighting challenges to a long running debate about how much water should be preserved in the north of the state to protect the fish species known as the delta smelt, or how much should be sent downward to agricultural interests farmers in what's known as the Central Valley. Experts like Mount say that has nothing to do with the firefighting situation in southern California, in Los Angeles.

First of all, the Central Valley is not Los Angeles. It's separated by a mountain range. Second of all, if you sent money to Central Valley farms, that doesn't, you know, irrigate the hills, the brush land of Los Angeles, where these fires are starting.

A third of all, there is no shortage of water overall in Los Angeles, despite the situation in these Pacific Palisades hydrants, the reservoirs are full, so there is a water supply. Again, there were infrastructure challenges in this particular region, but there is no shortage of water that's been sent from elsewhere of the states -- state.

[15:45:07]

They have it there.

So this Trump claim that this is all connected to the delta smelt up there in the, you know, the estuary of the delta is just -- just baseless.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. Well, it's a frequent part of his pattern is to connect different hot button issues to create a reality that's just not a reality.

Daniel Dale, thanks so much as always, for checking the facts and we will be right back with more right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Authorities in Venezuela have now detained the opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado, in Caracas after she joined a protest against President Nicolas Maduro's planned inauguration for a third term. That according to Machado's team.

The inauguration is set for Friday despite many countries and observers disputing his claims to have won the presidential election in July.

We're joined now from Bogota, Colombia, by journalist Stefano Pozzebon.

Stefano, tell us what happens next here. She's been detained. Do they expect to hold her for some time? And does the inauguration go forward?

STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: Because we don't know. Well, the inauguration will go forward. It seems very likely because the government, Nicolas Maduro, has said time and again that he intends to go on as planned and he intends to swear in a third presidential mandate. He's been in power for more than a decade now, and just as if none of the international outcry and the controversy from his reelection in July could interest him.

What happens with Maria Corina Machado is actually very confusing. We heard that directly from her team that he was detained. Now, there is intense rumor saying that she might be already been released because of the intense pressure from the international community.

This is a person that has been the face of the opposition for pretty much the last 12 months.

[15:50:05]

And as soon as the information about her detention was released, we have seen reactions from all across the region and the White House, including. Whether she remains detained at the end of today or not, it remains to be seen. What is certain is that Venezuela is proving to be a crucial test for the new Trump administration that is due to take power in Washington in a couple of weeks. It's proving a massive test because we know that the Venezuelan crisis has impacted the region, widespread region with more than 8 million migrants across the Americas, many of them heading to the United States.

And this is an early test for democracy in Venezuela, with thousands of people taking to the streets today, despite the intimidation campaign from the Maduro government to demand the president to step down.

SCIUTTO: Stefano Pozzebon, thanks so much. And to Stefano's point, the United Nations has now expressed its alarm after receiving reports of what it calls arbitrary detentions and intimidation in Venezuela.

Coming up next, some of the touching tributes we heard today for the late President Jimmy Carter at his state funeral here at the National Cathedral in Washington.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Well, as a private service for the late President Jimmy Carter is set to commence soon at his own church in Plains, Georgia. Let's listen to his eulogy from a friend, someone who knew Carter for decades. Two men of deep faith who share the unique experience of inhabiting the Oval Office, that is, of course, President Joe Biden,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A deep friendship that started in 1974. I was a 31 year old senator and I was the first senator outside of Georgia, maybe the first senator to endorse his candidacy for president. It was an endorsement based on what I believe is Jimmy Carter's enduring attribute, character, character, character. Because of that -- character, I believe, is destiny, destiny in our lives, and quite frankly, destiny in the life of the nation.

The story of a man who was at once driven and devoted to making real the words of his savior and the ideals of this nation.

[15:55:09]

The story of a man who never let the tides of politics divert him from his mission to serve and shape the world. The man had character.

Today, many think he was from a bygone era, but in reality, he saw well into the future. A white Southern Baptist who led the civil rights, a decorated Navy veteran who brokered peace, a brilliant nuclear engineer who led on nuclear nonproliferation, a hard working farmer who championed conservation and clean energy.

Through it all, he showed us how character and faith start with ourselves and then flows to others. At our best, we share the better parts of ourselves joy, solidarity, love, commitment, not for reward but in reverence for the incredible gift of life we've all been granted, to make every minute of our time here on earth count. That's the definition of a good life. A life Jimmy Carter lived during his 100 years.

To young people, to anyone in search of meaning and purpose, study the power of Jimmy Carter's example. I miss him, but I take solace in knowing that he and his beloved Rosalynn are reunited again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: President Biden eulogizing the late President Jimmy Carter there.

Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.