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Wildfires In Southern California Partially Contained As Flame Spreading Winds Temporarily Die Down; President Biden Promises Federal Government Assistance For California's Recovery From Fires; Possible Preventative Measures That Might Have Prevented Or Reduced Severity Of Current Southern California Fires Examined; President-Elect Trump's Nominees For Government Positions With Possible Effects On Environmental Policy Profiled; Wildfire Expert Interviewed On How House Building and Zoning In Los Angeles County Contributed To Wildfire Spread And Devastation. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired January 11, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: The current wildfires in California aren't included in this report, given it's a new year. But JP Morgan Chase has estimated that already economic losses stand close to $50 billion.

Anna Stewart, CNN, London.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Erin Burnett in Pacifica Palisades will join me momentarily.

Let's begin with this breaking news. Fire crews in a race against time as raging wildfires are continuing to scorch Los Angeles County. Winds are now expected to strengthen later on today, fueling the flames and potentially forcing new evacuations. Firefighters sending additional resources to the eastern flank of the Palisades fire as it threatens now, the Brentwood and Bel Air areas. Right now, more than 100,000 people are under evacuation orders across Los Angeles County.

Progress had been made on two of the largest fires. The Palisades now 11 percent contained, while the Eaton fire is now 15 percent contained. These fires have already taken a deadly toll overall, killing at least 11 people. Thirteen other people are reported missing at this hour, according to police.

But there are continued threats rising. Moments ago, California officials raising alarms about price gouging impacting the state's vulnerable fire victims.

David Acuna is with me right now. He is a battalion chief with CAL FIRE, the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection. Thank you so much for being with us. I mean, really so many threats coming from so many different directions. Now with the Santa Ana winds expected to increase in intensity later on today, what and how are you preparing for? DAVID ACUNA, BATTALION CHIEF, CAL FIRE: Hi Fredricka. Thank you for

having me on. Well, you're absolutely right. So the winds that started on Tuesday, 60 to 100 miles per hour, blew the fires across westward. But then when those winds stopped, the winds proceeded to cross again back eastward. And that's why we had spread of the fire again last night. It got larger because it moved the other direction towards some of the major freeways. So with another red flag warning that's going to push it westward again, there is a very significant concern that it's going to continue to grow.

WHITFIELD: Yes, it's very difficult to anticipate and to plan. Right now, you have some air assets, along with the state jurisdiction as well as Canadian fire retardant dropping. Planes are also in the air. Now is the time to take advantage of, I guess, the lower wind gusts right now. How concerned are you that you're able to kind of cover enough ground before flames are fanned once again?

ACUNA: Well, you're absolutely right. Now having the air assets back in, which cannot fly when it's 60 to 100 miles per hour. But now that were at the relatively mild 15, 30, 40 miles an hour, they can operate and get that retardant and-or water where it needs to get. But those containment lines are frail. That's why we're only at 11 and 15 percent respectively, because that is an idea that we have a control and it is not going to go beyond those containment lines. But when the wind picks up and those embers start flying, that's where our concern is. So we're going to continue to be vigilant and staffing the entire perimeter of the fire.

WHITFIELD: We heard the L.A. County fire chief earlier, as well as the L.A. city fire chief, all talking about the pre-deployment of nine trucks to vulnerable areas. The city calling in 90 extra firefighters. The county moving 30 extra engines into the area, the calling up of 100 off duty firefighters. But what's so complicated here, what continues to be complicated here is that you've got multiple fires underway simultaneously. How concerned are you about exhaustion of your firefighters, of all of your crews? People have been working now 72 hours plus to try to stop these fires.

ACUNA: Well, you're right, that is absolutely a concern. And we have been drawing in resources. We moved resources in CAL FIRE from northern California, where we have sufficient rain and snow, down to southern California to be prepared. And indeed, they were required to engage as soon as this fire started.

[14:05:00]

So now as we have this mutual aid system within the state of California, we've drawn in our state resources, we now have seven states outside of California sending firefighters, as well as Canada and Mexico. So everyone is pitching in and getting there so that we can be as prepared as possible.

Plus, keep in mind all of the firefighters that are back at their fire stations are still running all the medical aids, motor vehicle accidents, structure fires, and rescues that were there before all this started. WHITFIELD: How are you planning for this evening and the next day? I

know a lot of your concentration -- concentrated efforts are on the here and now. But just as you mentioned, it's very difficult to anticipate the wind direction change. What can you plan for this evening or even, say, tomorrow?

ACUNA: Well so we have three CAL FIRE incident management teams deployed, one to the Palisades, one to the Eaton. And then we also have a mobilization center, which is watching the entire area, because this red flag warning affects everything from Santa Barbara all the way down to San Diego. So it's a very large area to cover. This mobilization center is going to allow coordination amongst the various counties.

WHITFIELD: All right, all the best to you, CAL FIRE battalion chief David Acuna, all the best to you and all of the crews and this concerted effort, so many people involved from the air and on the ground. Thank you so much.

ACUNA: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, let's go now to pretty hard-hit Pacific Palisades. CNN's Erin Burnett is there. All right, so it continues to be a very complicated scene. They can plan for a lot, but then, of course, it means shifting gears, making modifications along the way given the wind direction change and so many other elements involved here.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR, ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT: Yes, Fred. And you know, that wind direction, I mean, now you don't feel a lot of wind, but you can see that the air here obviously is terrible in all of Los Angeles, and in these areas, obviously very much so. Sometimes you can acutely feel it, and other times you just smell it. But now we literally have chunks of ash coming down again that we have been seeing over these recent days as the winds shift. And that's what they're dealing with those fires, fighting them. When the winds shift, all of a sudden, the flames go somewhere else.

And as we know, they have requested now, we've been seeing some of those big D.C.-10s flying in with the fire retardant. They've requested additional air resources today, as well as up to 4,000 firefighters on one of the flanks here of this Palisades fire. I'm on one side of it. Julia Vargas is on the other side of it, Julia Vargas Jones. And Julia, as we have been talking throughout this day, what are you seeing? Because you've been seeing really active flames. And I know you had said behind you, I can see all that smoke, but you had seen the fire go down that ravine and canyon and then come up. And last time, with the big black billowing smoke, it was unclear what had caused -- what structure caused that to ignite. What are you seeing now as you've seen that advance?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Erin, we actually, we took a look at that quickly. My team and I just went down to take a look. That's actually a road that we tried to go up into earlier to set up for this live report for you. I'll let him go ahead and show you that we drove up that. So we assume that this is homes, that whatever that went up in flames is homes. There are definitely some kinds of structures that were down there. We're just looking at the map and realize that this is a road that would dead end at the canyon.

Again, we're at the very eastern edge of the Palisades fire. We're coming from the Brentwood side of the 405 freeway that cuts Los Angeles north and south looking west. So you're looking west into these hills. This wall of smoke, part of it is being caused by the incessant, constant drops of water that you're seeing now, and flame retardant. So we've seen, at times, I believe our record here was five different aircraft in the air at the same time.

What they're trying to do, it seems from what we've been observing, Erin, is they're trying to keep the flames from advancing into this residential neighborhood by keeping the flames on the bottom of the ravine and not allowing it to come and climb up where -- we're still, by the way, there's another canyon between us and where these flames are, so we're still in safe distance at this point, I'll add.

But there is a lot of black smoke, darker smoke coming from different parts of this, and a lot of activity from firefighters. Actually, I think now we just got a sixth aircraft up in the air. These water drops, they're working. There's a lot of resources being sent here. We know from the captain earlier told us that there were at least 10 aircraft for this specific assignment assigned to this area of the fire.

[14:10:05]

So we know that they're also taking advantage of the lull in the wind while they can. It might not last too long, Erin, as you and Fredricka have pointed out. So they really do need to work quickly before the winds pick back up and that window closes for the aircraft to be in the air.

BURNETT: Yes. And so important, Julia, as we're watching Julia's incredible reporting and the pictures that you have there, Kulia. When you talk about those winds, looking at this from the air, I went up yesterday. And you are hit by the magnitude of the fact that the Pacific Ocean is feet away from where the fire essentially has come and came from the Palisades. And yet with all that water in the world, nothing could stop the devastation.

Part of that is because when those winds pick up that that you're talking about, Julia, those super scoopers, some of those planes that would scoop the seawater up and dump it, they cannot fly, and the turbulence is too much for them to actually even pick up the water. So they have this brief, precious time before those winds pick up to even fight it.

I mean, and then as you talk about, Julia, when those winds are in action, there is just very -- it's much more limited what they can do. Julia, we've talked about how there are thousands of firefighters that have been requested. Julia is the one on the front lines there seeing that right over the ridge here. It is also amidst this, the firefighting and these giant clouds of ash. Underneath this, of course, is America's second largest city. And it is not business as usual in any way. It is a city that is sort of a moment of trauma, a 9/11-like moment for the city. But yet amidst that, life does continue.

And coming into this area where we are now, where so many thousands of people have lost everything, we filmed this morning walking up just the lines and lines and lines of cars. And people are literally waiting. This is what it's like. They sit there patiently all day long in the hopes that they could get to the front of that line and get an escort to come up and see if their home is even still standing. It's a sense of trauma and desperation and resignation, also. But you see that the blue sky and then that cloud of smoke, they're waiting to come here into this fire area that we're in to try to see their home. Most of them, obviously, are not going to succeed. I mean, you're moving a car or two every hour or so.

Julia, from where you are right now, do you get a feeling, do you see palpably this sort of desperation to seize these last hours before they anticipate those winds pick up in terms of the firefighting activity?

JONES: Yes, Erin, I actually wanted to mention to you that were feeling the wind picking back up up here. Of course, we're up on the top of the hill. We were told by the captain earlier today that this is the area that we're going to feel the wind the most. Of course, like if you live at the top of the hill, that's where you're going to be the most vulnerable to these winds, right? But we are starting to feel a little bit more wind than we had this morning. And I think as people perceive this also, they will start to think and get a little bit more concerned, and with reason.

Look, right now the residents of this area, they are just starting to grapple with this. They've just been told to evacuate. We've kind of seen a delay of what we've seen in the Pacific Palisades, right. So I would expect, Erin, that we will start seeing, we're about a day or two behind over here. It's the new front line. So we'll start to see what you're describing in the coming days.

BURNETT: Yes. All right, Julia, thank you very much.

When we come back, we're going to continue our breaking coverage of these devastating wildfires here in Los Angeles. Firefighters, as we are showing you, racing to make progress before the winds are going to spike again. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:17]

WHITFIELD: We continue to report on the southern California fires. Earlier today, Los Angeles City Mayor Karen Bass urged people living in vulnerable communities to follow orders to evacuate. The strong winds that fueled the infernos, destroying homes and businesses in a matter of hours, are expected to pick up again today.

Meteorologist Chad Myers is in the CNN Weather Center, keeping an eye on the conditions. I mean, these winds have been hurricane strength, and now they're likely to come back, right?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Very, very close to hurricane strength, without a doubt. This is the best were going to get. This is today, this this lull, this, maybe this next three hours, this is as good as it's going to get, because all of these fires are going to see increase in wind speeds over the next, I would say, between 4:00 p.m. local time and midnight local time, the wind speeds are going to get back up to the 30 to 40 mile per hour range. That's a Santa Ana event in itself.

Now, I know we're comparing this to 100 mile per hour gusts on a top of a peak somewhere. But if you just look back at where some of the worst forest fires were in California, they were with winds at 30 to 40 miles per hour. All of these fires, especially the westernmost fires, are going to experience those downslope winds.

And we have so many sparks now, so many fires, so many active fires that we can't even get to them all. Clearly, even though we have maybe, what would you say ten? Ten, I think, helicopters out there, they're all going up to Encino Lake, getting water, flying right back down, dropping it, going back up again. It's a big circle. If you want to go to Flightradar24, it's a website, you can actually see the helicopters doing their circles, getting water in the lake, taking it back down and dumping it onto the fires.

[14:20:02]

They're doing everything they can. But the fire line is so large right now, Fred, there are so many places, there are too many fires to try to get them all out. And this is the problem. The problem right now is that even though it's as good as it's going to get for a while, and it gets a lot worse tonight, and it gets worse again Monday and Wednesday. This is kind of like -- this is almost, you can almost think of it as like the desert breathing. In the daytime, the desert heats up, the air goes up, and you lose some of that pressure difference. And then at night it gets cold, and the desert breathes out. And where does it go? Right through the mountains, right through the canyons, and right back onto the fires.

WHITFIELD: Embers, I mean, just a multitude of embers. I mean, these just flying bursts of fire just landing anywhere and all the time right now.

MYERS: Now were back into suburbia again. For a while we were burning canyons. Now we're getting closer to Brentwood and the coast. This is a dangerous day.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Very frightening. All right, thank you so much. We'll check back with you. Chad Myers, appreciate that.

All right, meantime, President Biden continues to stay in contact with California Governor Gavin Newsom and Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass as the fires devastate southern California. Biden is also pledging that federal resources will be available for the people of California.

CNN's Julia Benbrook is joining us live from the White House now. Julia, what more can you tell us about Biden's plan to help people?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And the White House says that the administration has been in constant communication with California Governor Gavin Newsom and Los Angeles mayor Karen Bass. Now, yesterday, during a briefing that both of those leaders were a part of, President Joe Biden received an update on the efforts to suppress those fires across L.A. He also detailed how federal resources will be used to assist with the recovery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The churches that get burned down, he talked about, those public schools, the federal government will pay to rebuild those, rebuild those. So we have to let people know that there are things that are going to be coming that we've declared in this disaster relief legislation and others that are going to be available, because I think people say, OK, I'm out. But God, what happens now? What do I -- but we're not leaving. We're not leaving until we get it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BENBROOK: Following that briefing, Biden said that his team will keep working 24/7 with state and local officials. Now, that promise comes as Biden has just over a week left in office. And when it comes to coordination with the next administration, Biden says that his team has been updating them, and they know every step that they're taking.

The president has directed the federal government to cover 100 percent of the state's costs for the initial disaster response over the next 180 days. And then Biden has announced that FEMA has activated it's critical needs assistance program, which gives an initial one-time payment of $770 to survivors so that they can quickly purchase critical items like water, formula, gas, and prescriptions. They're also providing other resources like air tankers and more firefighting helicopters, as well. Over 600 California National Guardsmen are currently assisting, and then other servicemembers are ready to jump in where needed, on standby right now.

Now, Biden initially planned to be in Italy this week, but he is at the White House focusing on this federal response to those fires. And again, in just nine days, a new administration will be the ones in charge of this response. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, Julia Benbrook at the White House, thank you so much.

All right, for more information and how you can help Los Angeles area wildfire victims, go to CNN.com/impact or text "wildfires" to 707070 to donate more.

Our coverage of the devastating L.A. fires is straight ahead.

Also up next, as firefighters race to contain the four wildfires devastating L.A. County, many people are beginning to ask, how did this happen? And could anything have been done to stop it? A Los Angeles County fire chief earlier today said he is proud of the work that they have done and the decisions made ahead of the wildfires. He says this is a natural disaster. More on our coverage next.

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[14:28:47]

BURNETT: Welcome back to our breaking coverage here from California.

Southern California fires raging, they're really trying to capture every moment they can before they anticipate. I don't know if you were watching, you're watching our ongoing coverage. Chad was just reporting on the weather forecast. Those winds anticipated to pick up as strong as hurricane strength over these next 24 hours. We are we are here in the Palisades fire, that Palisades fire decimating.

I just want to show you how quickly these flames spread. You can see them at the end of a street, and then all of a sudden, take a look at this house. We saw it catch fire, 20 minutes later -- so it catches fire, 20 minutes later the entire thing is in flames. Twenty minutes later -- that is all the time you have, and it's gone. One of thousands.

Right now, the Palisades fire, which we are here in Palisades, is about 11 percent contained. That just means they've established a perimeter around 11 percent of it. So of course, that means 89 percent of it they haven't. They're flying giant D.C.-10s like the one you see on your screen, trying to drop that red fire retardant to establish a perimeter even as it is spreading down to Encino, West Los Angeles, Brentwood as well. Many people in Brentwood, when you drive through there, it is a very surreal setting.

[14:30:04]

It is that dark, earthy, covered smoke all throughout it. It feels almost as if the fire is a block away. Now, some of this is just because of the feeling of the ravines and the canyons here. But Brentwood, much of it, you can see people, it is under evacuation orders. Many, many people have also chosen to leave. But there are people still there.

And it is raising the question, as this ongoing threat, this unbelievable moment continues as to why, could something have been done to prevent this? Was this completely preventable? CNN's Nick Watt has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Did it really have to be this bad? No one was caught unaware it's here. Strong Santa Ana winds were forecast, and after months without significant rain, bone dry vegetation was obviously primed to burn.

Number one, were there enough boots on the ground to fight the flames? Easy answer, no. CHIEF ANTHONY MARRONE, LOS ANGELES COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT: We don't have enough fire personnel in L.A. County between all of the departments to handle this.

WATT: In a memo two years ago, L.A. City's Fire Chief Kristin Crowley said more staff were needed with increased risk due to climate change and increased construction in danger zones. Just last month, Chief Crowley told Mayor Karen Bass that eliminating some civilian positions and cutting $7 million from firefighters' overtime severely limited the departments capacity to prepare for, train for, and respond to large scale emergencies. Clearing brush, which is basically fuel, is crucial and mandatory. Chief Crowley says budget cuts mean they couldn't inspect to make sure the clearing was actually happening.

MAYOR KAREN BASS (D), LOS ANGELES: There were no reductions that were made that would have impacted the situation that we were dealing with over the last couple of days.

WATT: Number two, was there enough water to fight the flames? Again, easy answer -- no.

LOS ANGELES COUNTY DISPATCH: Multiple homes threatened. I need about two or three water tenders in there were some engines. We got dry hydrants.

WATT: Three huge water tanks help boost pressure in the hydrants around here but --

JANISSE QUINONES, CEO, L.A. DEPARTMENT OF WATER AND POWER: We were not able to fill the tanks fast enough.

WATT: Because demand was overwhelming, and the Palisades is at the end of the city water system with narrower pipes with reduced flow. Some hydrants ran dry at absolutely critical moments, like 3:00 a.m. Wednesday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've lost most of the hydrant pressure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why was there no water in the hydrants, Governor?

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: It's all literally --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it going to be different next time?

NEWSOM: It has to be.

WATT: But experts tell CNN there's not a city water system in the world that could have flawlessly handled this.

JONATHAN PARFREY, FORMER COMMISSIONER, LOS ANGELES DEPARTMENT OF WATER AND POWER: Now that we're in the 21st century, I think we have a new climate, and we need to rethink our infrastructure.

WATT: Number three, are building codes to blame? Yes and no. Anything built after 2008 is subject to some of the strictest fireproofing codes in the country. But only about five percent of structures around here were built after 2010, according to CAL FIRE. And those codes generally do not require retrofitting. So the new mall and Palisades Village is okay, and the 100-year-old mall just across the road is gone, and acres of devastation with the odd new build home still standing.

Number four, power line problems. Six years ago, the devastating Woolsey Fire just east of here was lit like many wildfires by sparks from above ground power lines in a Santa Ana wind.

PARFREY: You could have 80 mile an hour winds, but if there's no spark, there's no fire.

WATT: We don't know what ignited this week's fires, but according to Whisker Labs, there were multiple power line faults and sparks around the Palisades, Eaton, and Hurst Fires in the hours before they broke out. If power lines are below ground, they cannot start fires. The town of Paradise, destroyed in 2018 by fire, right now rebuilding with the power lines underground.

Now, this was, as some officials say, a perfect storm. The high winds meant they couldn't fight this fire from the air for those first crucial hours. And in terrain like this, without air assets, you have a hand tied behind your back.

BASS: Rest assured, we will absolutely do an evaluation to look at what worked, what didn't work, and to correct or to hold accountable anybody, department, individual, et cetera.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: All right, Nick Watt reporting there. And Nick is, of course, from here. He's been dealing with those evacuation orders himself with he and his family. Just one thing on his report, when he's talking about houses that were built since 2008 having to be built with the strictest fire code in the country, we can see that here even in the Palisades.

[14:35:8]

You see houses standing that clearly are new builds, and some of them actually look pristine. The issue is, of course, there'll be one or two houses standing. I can see a couple from here. And then the 1,000 homes around them are completely gone. It's two houses standing amongst a sea of hell. And that's maybe where that retrofitting -- no one's going to return to those houses to live there, to state the obvious.

All right, we're going to take a brief break. We'll be right back with our breaking coverage here from southern California in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: With climate change playing a central role in the catastrophic Los Angeles wildfires, important steps will unfold next week on Capitol Hill as President Trump, incoming President Trump, tries to fill out his cabinet. Senate committees are set to hold confirmation hearings for Trump's selections to lead the nation's energy and environmental policies.

[14:40:07]

North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum is up for interior secretary, while Liberty Energy CEO Chris Wright has been tapped as Trump's energy secretary. Former New York Congressman Lee Zeldin was picked as the new EPA administrator.

Joining us now is Josh Siegel. He's an energy and climate reporter for "Politico." Josh, great to see you. I mean, these are very important positions for the incoming Trump White House. So do we expect a lot of pushback from senators as they look to confirm these particular nominees?

JOSH SIEGEL, ENERGY AND CLIMATE CONGRESS REPORTER, "POLITICO": I'd say these trio of nominees are non-controversial as far as some of the other more noteworthy names we've seen in more of the national security realm for some Trump picks. Burgum, moderate governor, former governor of North Dakota, someone who has promoted all of the above energy. He's someone who comes from an oil producing state but is also overseeing carbon capture developments in a state, which is a technology to help address climate change.

Chris Wright, as you mentioned, he's someone who comes from the oil and gas industry, but he's actually invested in new technologies like geothermal. He's on the board of a nuclear, small nuclear company, which is on the cutting edge, seen as a technology that could really address climate change.

And then Lee Zeldin, someone who has been in Congress, is more known more recently as sort of a pro Trump person on TV and really defended him during impeachment trials, but was known as a moderate House member who was in a bipartisan climate solutions caucus. He represented eastern Long Island, which has seen some climate impacts, and he was seen as responsive to the needs of his district when it came to -- after hurricane Sandy.

So overall, I'd say these nominees aren't super controversial. I'd expect some Democratic support, even, especially for Burgum and even Zeldin, just given his history in Congress. Now Wright, I would say, is a little bit more controversial than the other two, given he's made some pretty public comments on climate change where he cast doubt, sort of on the severity of the problem, says that we should really be focused on, as a country, on exporting fossil fuels as a means to reduce poverty overseas. And he's sort of skeptical of any policies to promote clean energy.

WHITFIELD: So, does this give any insight as to the approaches the Trump administration might have when it comes to energy and environmental policies? Because there have been occasions in which Trump, in which Trump himself has been doubtful about the climate crisis. And here you've got this horrible situation happening in southern California, which even the fire chief is blaming as a natural disaster and pointing to the climate crisis and how it helped fuel what is taking place. SIEGEL: Yes, I would expect all three of these nominees to really

uphold things President-elect Trump talked about during the campaign, which is energy dominance, drill, baby, drill. I mean, they're going to really try to cut back on Biden regulations meant to deal with climate change, whether that's from pollution from power plants or transportation. These are some of the most aggressive regulations we've ever seen come out of government. And Trump made very clear he wants to undo those.

I would expect Lee Zeldin at EPA, he'll have the leader there. So they're going to peel back these regulations. At the same time, a key question we're following on Capitol Hill is just what do Republicans do about President Biden's trademark climate law, the Inflation Reduction Act, where there are a whole lot of subsidies in there to support these clean energy technologies. And you're seeing Republicans talk about, well, maybe we can repeal some of that to pay for their big tax cut bill that they want to do in reconciliation.

So there's going to be some interesting tensions in this trio, because someone like Burgum, you know, he's supported some of these technologies in North Dakota. So where does he stand? He actually has a higher level than the other two nominees. He was actually appointed energy czar. He's chairing this new national energy council that Trump created. So he'll really play a coordinating role across the government. How does he stand?

But again, Chris Wright someone who is more skeptical of subsidies, of policy to promote clean energy, does he have a voice on those issues? So I would say they're not -- overall, they're not going to be super proactive in addressing climate change. So the question will be, how much do they pull back on what Biden has done?

WHITFIELD: And speaking of which, just within the last 24 hours, President Biden making a commitment on a federal level to assist California for the next six months in the face of these wildfires.

[14:45:04]

Is there a feeling that he did this preemptive to incoming President Trump who might try to reverse that kind of commitment?

SIEGEL: Yes, I mean, you could certainly see it that way. I mean, I think the Biden administration in its last weeks and days has really been -- I'd say climate has been at the forefront of just making sure they're getting money out the door, for example, on the Inflation Reduction Act, doing as much as they can to cement their legacy in this area, knowing -- we've seen President-elect Trump take a different stance on wildfires. He's someone who is, again, skeptical of that climate change, has played any role in worsening these fires when we know the science says differently. He's someone who really likes to criticize Democratic states like California for their policies, particularly around forest management and water conservation. So I think, yes, I mean, Biden is doing everything he can knowing that this is one of the leading areas Trump campaigned on and is going to take a radically different approach with his with his nominees. WHITFIELD: Josh Siegel, climate reporter for "Politico," thank you so much for being with us.

We've got so much more ahead with our coverage of the now four active wildfires swallowing up entire communities in America's second largest city. Right now, fire crews are racing to contain the spread as the wind fueling those flames is expected to pick up yet again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:39]

BURNETT: Powerful winds are set to return to Los Angeles County tonight. Officials here are telling us, their words, a very significant concern that the wildfires, which are currently raging will continue to grow and could spread. And then it's just not a matter of moving quickly down a mountain. It's also a matter of embers flying and igniting entire neighborhoods, as happened already in this particular neighborhood within the Palisades fire.

Zeke Lunder joins me now. He ran fire mapping crews for 20 years, also a qualified California burn boss, as they call them. And Zeke, when you look at what we are seeing right now, the unprecedented nature of it as firefighters on the front lines are describing it, why do you think so many were caught off guard by these fires?

ZEKE LUNDER, WILDFIRE EXPERT: Well, yes, I don't think I'd say that it was unprecedented in that we've had major Santa Ana driven fires like this about once a decade for the entire 20th century. And so it's always a little surprising to me when they happen that we're caught off guard, because it's -- the Santa Anas and the way these fires behave are, they're really part of the southern California landscape.

BURNETT: So the neighborhoods that we're in and what we're seeing this, someone yesterday describing it as a little piece of everybody in Los Angeles has burned. These sort of neighborhoods And storied communities that matter a lot to the entire area, the entire city, are gone. And houses that are -- and I know you sent some pictures of this so we could understand the situation, that are so close together, just the density of the housing. And I can see it behind me. You can see the line of one house to another now that it's all razed to the ground, how close they were even in a community like this one, some of them you can look at, houses appear to be just a few feet apart.

So when we're looking at mass communities now, you're looking at more that are threatened by the fire at this moment. Is it possible, under any situation, to be able to mitigate a fast-moving fire in a community where you're seeing houses separated by just feet?

LUNDER: Yes, it's really difficult, once the fire enters the community, for firefighters to really do anything about it. And I think a really important thing for people to understand is that there's kind of a fundamental difference between a wildfire and an urban conflagration. And we talk a lot about these fires being wildfires, but really, they're burning from house to house. And so a lot of our traditional ways of thinking of reducing wildfire hazard, like thinning the brush or thinning among trees or using prescribed fire, those are really difficult to -- it's difficult to achieve safety in these communities that have been built so densely and oftentimes planned without any consideration for future fire behavior.

And because once the fire is burning from house to house, we talk a lot about reducing fuels or thinning the fuels, but we're not going to go out there and, like, thin houses or remove houses from the landscape to reduce the hazard. So it's pretty impossible under these types of conditions.

So a lot of, there's a lot of blame being pointed right now at the water system or the firefighters or the budget. But the blame in a lot of ways can be traced back to whoever decided that it was a good idea to pack houses so tightly in a place that has such extreme --

BURNETT: Zoning.

LUNDER: Yes, zoning and just a failure to really consider fire behavior when these communities were first laid out.

BURNETT: Can I ask you about that fire behavior? Because you have spent a career mapping them. And actually, I think it's so important, the context you put on it. I mean, I know in a sense you're stating the obvious, but it's really, just intellectually and emotionally what you're saying, there's a difference between a wildfire and an urban conflagration.

Are you -- when you look at the fires that were seeing now and the fact that they are threatening these densely populated areas, they've devastated the one that I'm standing in, can you even map them as you look ahead in these, as far as you see it over these next days, even into tomorrow, when you're going to see possibly hurricane strength winds again?

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LUNDER: Yes. Well, the big concern always is a new start. We've got the fire that we have to worry about right now. Mainly, the main active fire right now is still the Palisades fire. But there's always a chance, as we continue to have this extreme drought, I think it hasn't rained in a lot of parts there since April. You could have new ignitions in in other places that have equally dangerous kind of mixture of houses, vegetation, and that happen to be aligned with the topography, like Palisades was.

And when I say alignment, we're talking about, especially right now as the fires burning kind of towards the 405 corridor, the reason that the 405 goes from the valley to the coast where it does is because there's kind of a gap through the mountains there. And so that terrain is going to funnel these north winds. The winds, they go stronger through those gaps.

So when that becomes dangerous is when you have a community where all the homes are built kind of like right up the ridge or right up the canyon. And the canyons and ridges are what funnel these winds from the interior of the continent out to the coast. So there's these areas that we just know ahead of time are going to be the places that the wind blows the strongest, yet we've kind of allowed people to build houses just side by side by side. And it happens that oftentimes that alignment of side by side by side is directly in line with the direction the fire wants to go because of the topography and the wind.

BURNETT: All right, and these next hours are going to be so crucial. And as these winds continue, hours and days. Zeke Lunder, thank you very much.

And tomorrow we are going to have a special hour on the deadly fires in Los Angeles and the residents facing unthinkable tragedy, "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper" tomorrow at 8:00 eastern right here on CNN.

We'll be right back.

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