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Strong Winds Expected To Pick Up In Fire Zone In LA County; NASA Scientists Lose Home, Belongings To Eaton Fire; ATF Taking Lead In Determining Origin Of Palisades Fire; Headline: Strong Winds Expected To Pick Back Up In Fire Zone In L.A. County; Residents Face Devastating Reality Upon Returning Home; JPMorgan: Losses from L.A. Wildfires Estimated At $50 Billion; Natural Disasters Created Losses Worth $320B In 2024; Now: Crews Attacking Fire With Air Drops Before Winds Spike; Zelenskyy: Two North Korean Soldiers Captured In Kursk Region. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired January 11, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:47]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM and I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

We are witnessing the most destructive wildfires in the history of Los Angeles, America's second largest city.

Right now, there is very significant concern the deadly fires will continue to spread tonight. So far, 11 people have lost their lives, and officials expect that number to rise as cadaver dogs are now being sent into the ashes to search for remains. FEMA receiving more than 16,000 applications for assistance as residents are in desperate need of clothing, water, food, diapers.

More than 100,000 Californians are under evacuation orders. That number could also rise, and it comes as the coastal Palisades Fire is threatening to move further east toward Bel Air and Brentwood. That would include the Getty Center and UCLA. California's Department of Forestry saying more than 38,000 acres have been scorched, with more than 12,000 structures destroyed. People have seen decades of their life literally go up in flames.

Joining us now, CNN's Stephanie Elam, who is in Los Angeles' Brentwood neighborhood, that's on the eastern part of this Palisades Fire.

And, Stephanie, I know you're up in the hills. Youve been watching as choppers and other aircraft have been dropping water, flame retardants, trying to get ahead of this fire if and when these winds pick right back up. What are you seeing?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The winds are picking back up. I can already tell you that, Jessica. It is starting to gust here right now. It has gotten a little chilly out here and the wind is blowing up some of this ash. And I can also see it has changed the way it is blowing some of the smoke here. The big fight right now is happening here beyond this house, across this canyon on the other side there. That is where we are seeing a lot of the helicopters as well as the fixed-wing aircraft making their way in to make drops. That's where you see that dark smoke around the power lines there. The fire has been racing up the hill there, and they have been working to get that under control.

They've been attacking it from different angles, coming in from the north, coming in from the south, even flying in over us at different times as the wind shifts and then the smoke makes visibility tough, then they move it around.

And when you think about how much they are able to drop with each one of these, for these helicopters, its anywhere between 700 to 2,000 gallons that they can drop, and if you see on this helicopter, if you can see the helicopter that's here coming into view, if you see that one, it has that snorkel on it. That means they're able to fly in and go low over a reservoir or a lake, pick up water without landing, grab those gallons and bring them right back to the fire line and drop them right there.

One flew over us and we felt a little bit of the spritzing coming down off of it. So here is another one with that snorkel that's coming in and they can -- just think about how much time that saves, not having to land and refill their tanks and get them out there on the fire line and stop this forward progression of this fire.

The main goal obviously is lives. I talked to the Los Angeles Police Department, a couple of police officers are out here and they said most everyone here they do believe is gone and that's the first thing. The second thing is protecting property.

So here in the front, you see this house. You can see a fire truck there with a hose going around it. Right now, that house is fine. I walked around and looked at it, it is fine. You see that they have that hose out there. Those are firefighters who drove in from Utah a night or so ago and they are there just watching the flames and if anything comes closer, they will be there to stop and protect these homes.

But obviously, if you live in this home, this is a precarious situation, looking to see these flames just across the way, but they are attacking it full force out here today, looking to try to keep these homes here against this ridge safe.

But this is part of the threat of living up against in these wild land interface areas. It is beautiful. It is gorgeous to live here. But the difference here is the fact that you've also got just so much dry brush here. After two wet winters, all of this now just basically kindling since we haven't had any real discernible rain in months.

So all of this is super dry. You combine it with those winds and you have a little bit of fire and it can explode in size.

[18:05:10] So while we are seeing these containment numbers go up, there is still a chance that those numbers could change just because with these wind events that we are getting and the fact that it is getting windy now, it could start to pick up some of those embers.

So that's why they are working so hard, Jessica, to bring these flames under control here in this canyon that runs up behind a lot of homes here.

DEAN: Yes, everything is still happening very much in real time.

Stephanie, this event, as you noted in an earlier hour, just changing the face of Los Angeles, likely forever. So thank you so much for that reporting. We are going to continue to check in with Stephanie in the coming hours.

And while firefighters are making improvements in wildfire containment, thanks to those lower wind speeds, there is a high likelihood that could change by tonight.

Meteorologist Chad Myers is in the Weather Center monitoring these conditions. And Chad, we were just hearing from Stephanie firsthand experience, she is saying the winds are picking up where she is in the Brentwood neighborhood that she is starting to feel that begin to shift.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Absolutely. A strong Santa Ana in itself tonight, another one on Monday through Wednesday. But because we had this 85 to 100 mile per hour event, people aren't really taking this as seriously as they should. A 40 to 45 mile per hour Santa Ana event is a major event for wind, for fires.

And think about all of the embers we already have on the ground. It is the antecedent conditions that we have. It is dry, it is windy, and then all of a sudden you already have these embers, tree roots that are still glowing red, but you don't see it because the ground is kind of bright in the daytime. Well, as soon as the night falls, then you see all of that red.

And as we get into tonight, winds are going to be 20 to 30 and then gusting to 40 to 45. Look it, tomorrow morning, Malibu. This is the gust of 43. That's just a pinpoint. There are so many spots now with the color red that that really indicates 40 to 50.

Now at least, we are going to cool down, we are going to calm this down for a couple of days. And then Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, it all picks back up again. It is hard to get a feel for how long the firefighters are going to be able to fly tonight, because at some point in time, they probably are going to have to be grounded for a bit, at least if we are going to see these 50 mile per hour wind gusts over the top of the ridges.

But so many fires here, obviously we started with the Palisades Fire. All eyes were on that, and then on up toward the Eaton Fire. All of these fires are unrelated to the Palisades Fire, even though this one started first. These are all different fire starts, and that's why the investigators want to figure out how did they all happen?

Here is the smoke forecast. And so yes, it gets better for air quality. The breathing over LA has been really rough the past couple of days. The past 24 hours, it just kind of sat there in the valley. Well with the wind now all coming in from the northwest and northeast, it will push all of that completely offshore, clearing out at least some of that what everyone has been calling just a toxic air that's just sitting there over LA -- Jessica.

DEAN: It is so just awful. And we know now that the flames are encroaching on the 405, a major artery through Los Angeles to the west side of Los Angeles. Show us where that is and where the fire is moving there.

MYERS: Yes, let me go back here just a second. We will see that -- let's go forward here. The winds coming across the desert still are going to blow all night tonight and then into tomorrow. The 405 running right through here, I will get you a closer map, and then right here, here is Santa Monica, Los Angeles, Long Beach, Mount Wilson, and Burbank.

So the 405 runs right here along and that's where the kind of the stop is at this point in time. They want to hold that as a fire break. Will it be able to happen? Possibly because look at the wind direction blowing along or at least a little bit west of that 405. So that's the good news right now, is that the wind will help, but the winds shift directions every once in a while. They kind of come around here and there.

So we are still very, very dry. There is the 405 right there from San Fernando all the way down to LA, the fire bumping almost all the way up to it here and all the way down to the south, especially in the southern part here into Brentwood. This is the firefight right now, not allowing it to get to Santa Monica, not allowing it to get to Brentwood because there is a lot of canyons, a lot of dry brush right in between there and that is what they are fighting at this point -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right, Chad Myers, thank you very much for all of that.

As we've said, thousands of people have lost everything they own to these deadly wildfires, including Jason and Alina. They are NASA scientist and astrophysicist who lost their home and all of their belongings in the Eaton Fire. Images taken before and after show just the devastation of their home.

The couple, along with their three-year-old daughter were able to evacuate.

[18:10:10]

Jason and Alina join us now.

Thank you so much for being here with us.

Alina, I just want to make sure I am saying your name right. Is that correct?

DR. ALINA KIESSLING, LOST HOME IN EATON FIRE: Yes. You're saying it correctly.

DEAN: I am so sorry for what you too have been through, I can't imagine just the trauma and the devastation. Having to explain to your daughter what is going on and where her house went.

How are you doing today?

KIESSLING: I think the emotions, they are really ebbing and flowing. You know, we have moments where we are working really hard to just get our lives back in order, so we are very task oriented and going through lists and calling people and checking with insurance and so you can just sort of work.

And then, there are moments where we have conversations with our three-year-old and she, she asks if she will see her lovies again. It is hard.

DEAN: I know, because as parents, you just want to tell her it is going to be okay, and I am sure you just want to let her hug on her lovies and feel safe and that has to be really, really, really difficult.

KIESSLING: Yes.

DEAN: Jason, yes. Jason, tell us about the night you had to evacuate.

DR. JASON RHODES, LOST HOME IN EATON FIRE: Well, we knew that by the time we went to bed, we knew that there was a fire that had started, and we were sort of monitoring it on our phones. And in fact, right before we went to bed, we went outside and took a picture of the glow of the fire off in the distance. And we had our daughter sleeping in our bed because the winds were incredibly high, you know, gusts up to hundred miles an hour, I was told and so it was very loud and we were worried about trees and things like that falling on the house.

And Alina was monitoring the situation and around 2:00 AM, woke me up and said, "Hey, I'm getting a little worried." And I took a look at one of the apps on the phone that said we weren't in either an evacuation zone or a warning to prepare to evacuate. And I said, "All right, let's give it an hour and see what's happening." And she said, "Well, why don't we -- why don't we start getting things ready now?" So I said, "Okay."

So I got my daughter up and I said, "You have to get dressed. You might be able to go back to bed," and Alina put together a suitcase with a few clothes for all three of us, and then I got some important papers that we had in a safe, you know, birth certificates and other documents like that, and we realized that the power had gone out, but we have a battery, and so our house was running on battery.

And I thought, "Okay, if the battery fails, it is going to be hard to get the car out of the garage with the electric garage door opener." So I said, "I'll get the car out," and so then well be completely ready. And then we can just, you know, sit back and see what happens. And in the 20ft from the house to the car, I could hardly see through the smoke and the wind was howling and it was just the worst, I guess, hellscape I've ever been in.

So I pulled out the car, put it in the driveway, came back inside. I said, "We're done packing. We're leaving right now." And so we got in the car, we all put on masks, got in the car. We drove away, and neighbors were also leaving, and we got about a mile away and then our phones started to buzz and said, "Evacuate now." That was about 3:00 AM.

And about two hours later we had, escaped to my sister's house, which was just 15 miles away. And so actually on the edge of the evacuation zone, and they didn't have power, but my phone buzzed and said, the burglar alarm in my house had gone off. And at first I thought it was somebody taking advantage of the evacuation to burgle my house. And, then it dawned on me, that's probably the best case scenario of why alarms are going off.

And then all successive sensors in our house tripped within four minutes. And that was the house going up in four minutes. That's, I think, how long it took for our house to burn down.

DEAN: Four minutes.

RHODES: That's what I think based on the sensors of the alarms.

DEAN: And it is just an incredible story. I just to, like, take all of that in and that experience that you had is just awful. And so, like, the stuff of nightmares, truly.

Alina, what do you do now?

KIESSLING: So really, Jason has been phenomenal, and so proactive about contacting our insurance and making sure that we have a claim already processing and really, our top priority at the moment is finding somewhere to live. So we are in temporary accommodation at the moment, and it is really important to us, like it is obviously -- it is going to take probably two years to rebuild our house.

[18:15:07]

And so that's such a long time and there are thousands of people who are currently looking for accommodation and are in a similar situation to us. So our top priority is really just finding somewhere to live.

And then writing an inventory of every single thing in our house for insurance purposes. And just to sort of start to take stock of what we've lost and what we need to replace now, what we need to replace in the future.

So it feels never ending. But, you know, we are not the only people in this situation. We have so many friends and colleagues and people throughout Los Angeles who have gone through this same trauma and really the generosity of strangers and of our friends and community has blown us away. We are so incredibly humbled by the level of support that people have been showing to us as we try to put our lives back together.

DEAN: Well, we wish you both the best. I am sorry that we are meeting under these circumstances, and I know it feels, you know, like an insurmountable feat to get that house rebuilt and put your lives back together, but I am sure you'll be able to do that.

And I really appreciate you sharing your story with us, Jason and Alina, thank you.

KIESSLING: Thank you.

RHODES: Thank you for having us on.

DEAN: And if you just multiply what we just talked about times thousands and thousands and thousands, that is what they are dealing with in Los Angeles tonight as these flames continue and these fires continue.

We are going to tell you how firefighters are attacking the flames from the air and trying to stop them from spreading.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:43]

DEAN: President Biden is in contact with leaders in California as crews continue to battle those deadly wildfires in LA County. Officials saying there is a significant concern that the fires will grow today. This, as the ATF says it has now taken the lead on investigating what started the massive Palisades Fire.

CNN's Julia Benbrook is joining us now live from the White House.

Julia, what more can you tell us about the federal response?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, as you mentioned, the ATF is now taking the lead on the investigation into the Pacific Palisades Fire.

In a social media post, ATF Los Angeles Office said that they will continue to work in conjunction with state and local investigators to determine the cause of this tragic event.

According to two sources briefed on the matter who spoke with CNN, their assistance was requested by local Fire officials, and they will work to determine if line failures, arson, or other causes may have played a part in starting the blaze.

Now, this comes as President Joe Biden continues to be regularly briefed about the fires and the efforts to suppress them across Los Angeles, as well as how federal resources are working to combat everything that is going on.

After a briefing yesterday that included California Governor Gavin Newsom as well as Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass, they attended virtually, Biden pledged that he would continue working 24/7 with state and local officials, and this promise comes as he has just over a week left in office.

He has said that his team has briefed the incoming administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Everything they know, every single thing we are doing about the response. My hope is that they will have at least acknowledged we have some significant experience in this. We've done really well on it, and I am praying that they continue to focus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENBROOK: The president has directed the federal government to cover 100 percent of the state's cost in this initial disaster response. That's for the first 180 days. And FEMA has launched its Critical Needs Assistance Program, which gives an initial one-time payment of $770.00 that covers initial needs like food, water, baby formula, as well as personal hygiene products.

The administration is also making air tankers and firefighting helicopters available.

Now, Jessica, Biden was actually expected to be in Italy right now, but he canceled that trip so that he could monitor this federal response.

DEAN: All right, Julia Benbrook at the White House for us. Thank you so much for that update.

And the fight against the massive wildfires in LA County isn't just on the ground, it is also in the sky, as we've been showing that to you with the largest civil aerial firefighting force in the world. From tactical planes mapping the fight to tankers, dropping fire retardant, this is an air battle like no other.

And we are going to bring in retired Air Force Colonel and CNN military analyst, Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Cedric, thanks for being here with us. I think it is just important to note for a second the heroic battle and the heroic actions that these firefighters are taking. It is truly incredible what these men and women are doing around the clock, trying to protect people and homes.

I know during your time in the Air Force, you dealt with similar operations in combat, but explain how critical the aerial firefighting is in trying to contain these fires.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Jessica, good to be with you.

There are so many aspects of this that are very similar to what you experience in combat, especially from an aerial perspective. And one of the key things to think about here is how all of this really comes together. So when you see all of these aircraft flying, the different fixed-wing aircraft as well as the rotary wing aircraft, the helicopters, all of that has to be controlled basically in a centralized way.

Here, for example, you can see a DC-10 which is being used. It has a huge capacity, almost 10,000 gallons that can be dumped on fires that are raging in the California area. And these kinds of aircraft are really essential to fighting these fires. The C-130s, CalFire has C- 130s, but the US Air Force has also C-130s that they've brought in to help with the fire fight. Many of them have come from National Guard units, and not only from California, but from Nevada and from Wyoming.

[18:25:22]

And what these efforts are basically is based on being able to use as much power as you possibly can bring to bear against a specific area.

So just like you would run a bombing campaign in combat, you would be actually using these aircraft to target specific areas of the fire and if you get those areas under control, then you can move ground teams in and use those ground teams to dampen, tamp down the flames in that specific area.

So, it is basically a rolling activity that goes on based on not only what they see, but what they expect to develop in the next, not only few hours, but in the next few minutes and that's based on a lot of, you know, intelligence work that the fire companies are doing in this particular case.

DEAN: Yes, and we showed a graphic there of all the different types of planes, helicopters involved in this, how do they work together in concert to contain these fires?

LEIGHTON: So a lot of it is based on really the airspace management and this is a fancy way of talking about air traffic control. So each one of these aircraft is cued together, tied together with a centralized node that could include the OB-10, which is a spotter aircraft and all of them are basically run in sequence.

If you think of aerial operations, kind of like a ballet where you have certain roles that each particular person has, in this case, each particular airframe has, and you bring in the heavy aircraft in order to take care of major areas of fire and then you take, for example, the CL-415 that you see there, it picks up water from the ocean in this case, and then moves that water to the point where it can actually be dumped on a specific fire.

And the air traffic controllers, the airspace managers, they basically take care of making sure that those aircraft are at the specific target area at the time that they're needed. And when they do that, they are basically choreographing the entire battle against that fire.

And they do that in concert with the ground teams so that the fire authorities in Los Angeles County are going to be really taking a look at not only what they're doing on the ground, but how effective the air piece is. And the air piece can be extremely effective because they bring so much to bear on specific points along the fire line.

And once those fire line points are actually attacked, then you can go in and move the containment area up further and increase the amount of containment that you have with a specific fire, with each specific fire.

DEAN: And then just the challenges here, I have been struck by these giant planes, the C-130s or these really large planes that are flying pretty low and pretty slow for what they normally do.

LEIGHTON: Yes, that's right. In fact, the C-130s, they have a special system on board that's basically been developed since the early 1970s and what that system does is it has over 28,000 pounds of or, excuse me, 28,000 gallons that it can bring to bear on a specific part of the fire. They have to fly at an above ground altitude of about 150 feet in some extreme cases, so that they can actually target the specific parts of the fire that they're going after.

And one of the big challenges there, Jessica, is that the winds are different at lower altitudes compared to higher altitudes. So they have to -- the pilots have to make sure that they account for the differing winds, especially in a place like Southern California where the Santa Ana Winds are, of course, playing a huge role in the fire and can actually affect how the airplanes are flying.

DEAN: Certainly. All right, Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you so much for that context. We really appreciate it.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jessica.

DEAN: Still ahead, firefighters are racing against time and the next round of winds that could potentially spread the already devastating fires burning there in LA County. We are going to go back to the fire zone next for an update.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:33:55]

DEAN: The Santa Ana winds are picking back up in Los Angeles. CAL FIRE saying there is a, quote, "significant concern that the fires will grow." The Palisades fire, which is threatening to move east, is now 11 percent contained. So far, more than 22,000 acres burned. The Eaton fire, only 15 percent contained, with more than 14,000 acres burned.

CNN's Leigh Waldman is joining us now with the latest from the Pacific Palisades.

And Leigh, you were in that area that was just decimated by this fire. What have you seen today?

LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jessica, people keep saying it's like a bomb was dropped in this area. And you can see the - what's left of the homes behind us. And I think that only begins to cover it. There's nearly nothing left but ashes, rubble and ruin from people's homes here.

I believe we have a mass camera shot to show you just the full extent of what this neighborhood looks like. Only a few homes here were spared by this fire as it tore through this neighborhood, forcing people to take only a few items with them and flee from their homes.

[18:35:08]

There's also a plume of smoke that's behind us where that fire is actively burning on the ridgeline. We met a man named Rick, and he shared with us this video of his home. He's called the Pacific Palisades home for 30 years. His daughter was born at this home. She was raised here. She's 23 now, moved out. He was hoping something was salvageable from the home.

So, he wanted some kind of closure to see it for himself. So, he made his way there on a bike trying to get through all the road closures here. And this is what he found. It's absolute rubble, ruin. And we asked him what his thoughts were when he got there. This is what he had to say to us, Jessica.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK BOTA, LOST HOUSE IN PACIFIC PALISADES FIRE: I just drove by my house just to get some closure. And yes, it's rubble. There's nothing there. My daughter, who's raised - born there, and she's 23 now, said, dad just get something, just pick up something. And there's literally nothing.

The whole day, we've just been - like, my daughter and I have just been thinking about what we lost, the memories in the house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALDMAN: It's those memories that are irreplaceable for so many people, Jessica. And Rick was telling us that he was putting off evacuating. He said the fire is not going to come here. We've heard about fires before. And this is the story we've heard so many times before, until he saw the fire on his street and all he could grab were his dogs and a backpack. And that's all he's left with is memories of his house and the backpack that he took alongside with him. It's horrible.

And today, we've seen people coming through this neighborhood, looking at their homes for themselves. A woman was coming through here with posters of her dog, calling out for her dog by name, hoping to find her dog again. It's heartbreak after heartbreak for so many people who had their lives upended and destroyed by these wildfires.

DEAN: It is just apocalyptic behind you, Leigh. And to hear Rick's story and just to know the heaviness in his heart, it's just - it's a lot to take in. But thank you so much for that reporting. We really appreciate it.

And the economic losses so far from the fires are close to $50 billion. That's according to JP Morgan. And that just adds to the losses from natural disasters worldwide.

CNN's Anna Stewart has more details on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Last year was very costly due to natural disasters, hurricanes, storms and floods all around the world. Munich Re, the world's biggest insurer, estimated total losses of $320 billion, with $140 billion covered by insurance, so less than half. Climate change is playing a big role, according to Munich Re's chief scientist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOBIAS GRIMM, CHIEF CLIMATE SCIENTIST. MUNICH RE: We saw a number of extreme weather events in many countries, including Canada, United Arab Emirates, Spain and Brazil. We all have the pictures in mind with the airport in Dubai knee-deep in water, with the city of Valencia where cars were swept away in mud like toys, with areas that were widespread flooded in Brazil, in Central and Eastern Europe, in China and in many other regions. Climate change is showing its claws.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: The two costliest, most destructive disasters of last year were both in the United States, hurricanes Helene and Milton. The aftermath led to losses of $56 billion and $38 billion, respectively.

Now, the current wildfires in California aren't included in this report, given it's a new year, but JPMorgan Chase has estimated that already economic losses stand close to $50 billion.

Anna Stewart, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Anna, thank you. For more information about how you can help those affected by the L.A. fires, you can go to cnn.com/impact. You can also text WILDFIRES to 707070.

Still ahead, are wildfires getting worse? We're going to talk with a climate scientist about what's making these disasters even more catastrophic and even more of a regular occurrence. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:43:22]

DEAN: The powerful Santa Ana winds are something people in Los Angeles are used to. But as the climate crisis intensifies, California is experiencing rapid swings between intensely wet weather, like Southern California saw last winter, and extremely dry conditions, like the state is experiencing now. And that leads to more dangerous conditions when these Santa Ana winds hit.

Daniel Swain is joining us now. He's a climate scientist at the UCLA Institute of Environment and Sustainability.

Daniel, thanks so much for being here.

It's so important to have this conversation right now. I know you talk about hydroclimate whiplash. What is that? Help people understand what that is and how it's contributing to what's happening right now.

DANIEL SWAIN, CLIMATE SCIENTIST, UCLA INSTITUTE OF THE ENVIRONMENT & SUSTAINABILITY: Well, thanks for having me back. You know, in general, hydroclimate whiplash is this overall notion of rapid swings between very dry conditions on the one hand and very wet conditions on the other or vice versa. As is the case here, as you mentioned, in Southern California, where last winter was exceptionally wet, which then ultimately resulted in a lot of growth of additional grass and brush, the kind of vegetation that's burning in the fires this week.

And now we're experiencing a record dry period, with the start of the rainy season being delayed indefinitely. It hasn't rained in Los Angeles essentially since May. So now what we have is, on the one hand, from the wet conditions, literally more fuel for the potential fires to come, and now extremely dry vegetation, which is what's actually burning during this dry period where we're seeing these terrible fires.

DEAN: And how is climate change and global warming playing into this?

[18:45:02]

SWAIN: Well, we know that climate change has already increased the likelihood of extreme fire weather conditions in autumn and in early winter in California, due to rising temperatures and increasing atmospheric thirstiness, the propensity of the air to literally draw more moisture from the landscape and from plants, making them drier and more flammable. But there's also a second piece here, in Southern California specifically, which is that these drier autumn conditions or more extreme fire conditions overall, increasingly overlap with what is known as offshore wind seasons.

So, we've been hearing a lot about these very strong, dry Santa Ana- like winds that have pushed these fires into essentially causing them to become urban conflagrations. And as we see drier starts to the rainy season or vegetation is starting off from a drier point to begin with in the summer and autumn, increasingly those critically dry vegetation conditions overlap with the time of year, which is generally October through January, when we do tend to see these strong, dry winds in Southern California. So, that confluence of events is increasing, and that's particularly concerning in Southern California.

DEAN: Yes, and you know, scientists like yourself, I think, have always talked about the potential for all of this, essentially, creating the perfect storm that we're seeing play out. As we're talking to you, we're looking at live pictures, what we're seeing play out. Did you - do you feel like we got to this earlier than you - than maybe we thought we would or is this just right on time with what is happening here on Earth? SWAIN: Well, you know, as you suggest, the images coming out of Los Angeles this week are genuinely shocking, even for those of us who study these things professionally. Like there is still a certain level of personal shock. But as many of my colleagues would agree, not so much surprise. This was, in many ways, a foreseeable disaster.

Southern California has always been a place with very high risk of destructive wildfires. But what we're doing is really upping the ante on that pre-existing risk. Partly that's a climate change question, as we've been discussing, but it's not only a climate change question. There are also other reasons, other factors at play that are amplifying wildfire risk. And the problem is the climate component sort of sits on top of all of those and makes them even worse.

So, we have a confluence of factors that's really aggravating a pre- existing risk. And unfortunately, we're seeing just how bad things can get when events like what we're seeing in front of us right now unfold.

DEAN: And so, what is - what do you do? What's the solution?

SWAIN: I think, you know, there's a real hope, I think, among a lot of people that (INAUDIBLE) solution. And because the underlying challenge of increasingly frequent and extreme wildfire disasters is multifactorial, there is no single solution. And the challenge is that a lot of the things that can be done to halt climate change in the long run don't necessarily mitigate the short-term risks in places like California.

So, I think a portfolio of solution, things to improve the resilience of communities to wildfire, improve the fire resilience of structures, but also tackle the structural issues of climate change, which is making this problem worse on top of everything else. We kind of have to do all of those things if we really want to reverse this alarming trend towards increasingly destructive wildfires.

DEAN: Yes, like so many things, this is nuanced and there's a lot of pieces to it.

Daniel Swain, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it.

SWAIN: Thanks again.

DEAN: And we're going to have much more on the breaking news out of California straight ahead.

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[18:53:10]

DEAN: We have breaking news, the National Weather Service says, quote, "Very dangerous weather conditions are expected to continue into next week in Southern California." We're going to have a forecast for you on the winds coming up in just a few minutes. But first tonight, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying his military forces have captured two North Korean soldiers who were fighting on behalf of Russia. Here is video, the Ukrainian Security Service released supposedly showing those two soldiers.

CNN's Melissa Bell has more on this.

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jessica, Ukraine has released what it says is footage of the first North Korean soldiers to be captured in Kursk. The two soldiers say Ukrainians are wounded and we don't know much about the circumstances of their capture. Simply, according to President Zelenskyy, that it was a difficult thing to achieve, given the Russian tendency to execute wounded soldiers rather than let them be captured.

We're blurring, of course, the men's faces in line with the Geneva Convention. CNN can't authenticate the video. But what Ukrainian secret services say about them is that the men were captured wounded. One of them had a Russian ID on him. And according to the SBU, one of them told them that they had believed they were coming to Russia for training, found themselves in front line combat instead and only had had a week of training with Russian forces.

We've known, of course, for many months that there were North Korean soldiers fighting specifically in that Kursk region that was captured, you'll remember, by Ukrainian forces in that surprise offensive last summer. Much of it taken back by Russian forces now, and where there are very fierce battles taking place even now, as each side tries to take as much territory as it can before expected negotiations.

[18:55:01]

We heard from Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who was speaking in Seoul just a few days ago, that in just one week in December, he said, a thousand North Korean soldiers were believed to have been either killed or wounded. So that speaks to the ferocity of the battles that are going on now, impacting, of course, these North Korean soldiers. We believe the figures vary, but we've heard anything from 10,000 soldiers to more than that.

This capture, of course, for the Ukrainians, is important in terms of getting to the bottom of exactly who these troops are, how well- trained they are, and how much resistance in battle the Ukrainians can expect, Jessica.

DEAN: Melissa Bell, thank you very much.

California fire officials say there's a significant concern fires in L.A. County will grow. We're going to have more live coverage ahead in the CNN Newsroom.

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