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Interview With Rep. James Comer (R-KY); Trump Immigration Crackdown; Trump's DEI Purge. Aired 11-11:30a ET
Aired January 22, 2025 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:14]
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: A deadline for DEI, President Trump escalating his campaign against these diversity initiatives. All federal DEI staff are expected to be placed on paid leave by 5:00 p.m. today. In just moments, I will talk to a top Republican about the purge.
Plus, anxiety and fear in big cities over Trump's immigration crackdown. I will speak to a religious leader in Chicago. What immigrants are asking him to do as they prepare for mass arrests.
And then later, breathing new life into extremist groups, as the leader of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers are released from prison? That's what experts are saying Trump's January 6 clemency is, saying it's -- quote -- "catastrophic," a catastrophic moment for domestic counterterrorism.
Well, hello everyone. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington and you're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
And we begin with breaking news, sources telling CNN Trump administration officials have had discussions about inviting some January 6 convicts, rioters who were convicted, that President Trump pardoned to the White House for a potential visit and meeting with Trump.
CNN's Alayna Treene joins us now from the White House.
So, who in particular are they discussing to invite to the White House, Alayna?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, as of now, when I talked to the two sources familiar with these talks, they told me that it's still very much unclear, one, if this would even happen, but also it's unclear who would be invited if this were to go ahead.
Now, as you mentioned, Pamela, I learned that there have been discussions among Donald Trump's administration officials about whether or not to invite some of those that Donald Trump pardoned or commuted the sentences of on Monday to the White House for a visit and a meeting.
Again, still very much unclear if that would happen, but this has been in discussion and something that has been considered. Now, of course, this would be a monumental movement, but especially after we saw what Donald Trump did on Monday, which was fulfill one of his long-held campaign promises, to pardon those who were convicted for their role in the January 6 Capitol attack.
Now, one thing also to keep in mind is that Donald Trump has been personally engaged with some of the people who have been convicted or some of their family members. That includes Ashli Babbitt's mother, Micki Witthoeft. I'm hoping I'm saying her name correctly.
We know that they spoke actually a few weeks ago on the phone. Ashli Babbitt's mother had actually posted a video of them on the phone. We know that Donald Trump also, or his team, I should say, gave them passes to attend the inauguration. They didn't end up attending because it was -- ended up moving inside.
But, again, that's all to say that Donald Trump and his team have been engaged with many of these different people who ended up getting pardoned on Monday. This was a huge priority for him and really just underscores how committed he was to that after, of course, that executive order with the pardons, but also just to be having these talks at all about having them come to the White House for such a visit.
BROWN: I also want to ask you about this critical 5:00 p.m. deadline this afternoon regarding DEI practices in the federal government. What does that look like?
TREENE: That's right. So we also have some reporting on this as well.
I was told that just hours after Donald Trump was sworn into office on Monday, the Office of Personnel Management that has been helping send this guidance regarding diversity, inclusion -- or -- excuse me -- diversity, equality, and inclusion hires, starting to alert different Cabinet secretaries on Monday, I should say, acting Cabinet secretaries, about this guidance that was coming, and that they wanted them to begin shutting down all DEI protocols and agencies and offices and beginning the process to put these people on administrative paid leave.
Now, as you mentioned, the memo that was released yesterday by OPM says that all people who fall into that category under the umbrella of DEI will be put on administrative paid leave starting at 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday, saying that effectively they would be out of a job effective immediately.
Now, this is also something that Donald Trump had long held or had long promised to really do. He moved very swiftly on Monday. It was one of the first executive orders that he signed trying to shut down these different agencies.
But it's also important to point out that this is really kind of the direct opposite of what former President Joe Biden and many advocates of these programs have said was a way to correct historical wrongs. Donald Trump, of course, and his allies, like I said, have long been against this. They argue that these DEI hires, as they characterize them, these
programs are really a way to discriminate against others, mainly white people. And so that's where all of this kind of falls into. But those people who fall under these categories will be put on paid administrative leave starting 5:00 p.m. tonight -- Pamela.
[11:05:12]
BROWN: All right, Alayna Treene, thanks so much from the White House.
Joining us now for more is Kentucky Republican Chair James Comer of the Oversight Committee. And he just announced its Department of Government Efficiency, also known as DOGE, Subcommittee as part of Oversight.
So I want to get your thoughts on what Alayna just laid out there, the White House announcement that any federal DEI employee will be placed on paid leave effective immediately. What is your understanding of how this will work and how many employees could be impacted here?
REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Well, we're trying to figure out how many employees.
We just know that every Cabinet, every agency started creating these DEI divisions within federal agencies, and they kept hiring more people and hiring more people and hiring more people. My committee tried to request to find out exactly how many DEI employees are in the federal government, but the Biden administration would never tell us the answer to that.
So I think the first step, obviously, President Trump campaigned that he was going to end the government DEI. It's already illegal to discriminate. You already have personnel offices within every government agency.
President Trump and I and I think at least 50 percent of Americans feel that this is a duplicative service within the federal government, an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy. So, the first step is to end it, figure out how many employees we're talking about, and then figure out, can these employees be terminated, or can these employees be moved into another position in the federal government where they're needed?
BROWN: What about employees who may have been hired under these DEI initiatives?
COMER: And I think most of them were. I think most of them -- now, there are instances, and we have read instances, I think you all have covered instances where people have been transferred.
There are always -- within the federal government, you have the civil service program, which protects, like a teacher with tenure, to where if there are opportunities for lateral transfers, if they have been within the federal government for a certain period of time, I believe that they will be given first priority for any new job opening that comes open in the civil service. But with respect to the new DEI hires, especially if they haven't been there very long, I would say that more than likely they're going to be looking for another job. And good -- lucky for them. This is a very strong job market, and there are a lot of private sector companies that are hiring right now.
BROWN: Just quickly, before we move on, civil rights groups argue that DEI initiatives are meant to protect the most vulnerable populations and to correct historic wrongs.
And DEI does cover not just minorities, pregnant women as well and military spouses. What do you say to that? Like...
COMER: There are already rules on the books to discriminate. You can't discriminate against a pregnant worker. You have to accommodate them. That is the law.
You cannot discriminate against a minority or someone that's too old. These laws are written in. You cannot discriminate. So we believe the DEI is just an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy, an added layer of duplicative services.
You saw there was a movement when the government started going all in on DEI that a lot of Wall Street companies started going all in on DEI. Now these Wall Street companies are ending their DEI programs. And there was just released an "Economist" poll that showed 45 percent of Americans, including 27 percent of African-Americans, support removing DEI from education and the government.
BROWN: Do you expect initiatives on or departments related to climate change to be next?
COMER: Well, obviously, we want to support the -- protect the environment. We want to make sure that we have clean drinking water. We don't want to pollute the oceans. We want to protect the fish.
We -- I'm a farmer so I love and appreciate the land. I want to pass my land on to the next generation in better shape than I found it. But at the end of the day, we believe a lot of these climate change initiatives, the Green New Deal initiatives have gone too far.
We believe that it's hindered our ability to produce American energy. Therefore, we believe it's put us behind countries like China that don't abide by Green New Deal initiatives or don't abide by the Paris Climate Accords and things like that.
So we believe that we can protect the environment while at the same time unleashing our American energy potential.
BROWN: But some of these initiatives or departments dedicated to climate change could be looked at, right, from your understanding?
(CROSSTALK)
COMER: Well, yes, we want to protect the environment.
BROWN: OK.
COMER: We want clean water. Everybody wants clean water. Nobody wants oil spilled into the ocean.
I think we can accomplish what we want and need as Americans. And that's full energy production, while at the same time protecting the environment. And if people pollute the environment, I can assure you, in the Trump administration or in the Biden administration or in the next administration, they're going to be held accountable.
BROWN: So let's talk about some other actions from the Trump administration, and that is looking at employees who were hired in the last year to be fired.
[11:10:05]
What do you know about that and how many could be impacted?
COMER: Well, the Biden demonstration hired a lot of people, and we don't know how many. I'm chairman of the House Oversight Committee.
We have no idea, some agencies, how many people they hired. We have been trying to get our hands around this telework situation that President Trump discussed when he was doing his executive orders yesterday. We don't know how many federal employees currently are teleworking.
We know it's a significant number. You can ask Mayor Bowser in Washington, D.C., about it. She knows it's a significant number because there are blocks in Washington, D.C., here that are like ghost towns because there are no federal employees coming to work.
I don't think any Republican would oppose telework if we had data that would prove that it's more efficient. But the Biden demonstration never would produce any data or any evidence that would say working from home is a better deal for the American taxpayers.
So we're trying to bring all the federal employees in, trying to figure out how many DEI employees there are, trying to figure out how many people aren't coming to work, trying to figure out which agencies are needed. And that's what DOGE is focused on.
We're going to try to make government more efficient. If there's a program that we feel was unnecessary, but once we bring the employees in and learn more about it, maybe we were wrong, I think that program will stay. But if we feel they're unneeded, then we're going to try to get rid of it.
BROWN: Before I get to pardons, is there anything else from DOGE we can expect, since you're in touch with them and there's a subcommittee under Oversight?
COMER: Yes, right. Rules and regulations, we believe that there are a lot of executive orders, a lot of rules and regulations that have hindered a lot of private sector companies, especially in energy, as I mentioned earlier. My industry, agriculture, I think there are some things with respect
to food production. Of course, it's going to be interesting because Robert Kennedy has some ideas on making some changes to the food processing that I'm very intrigued by. So there are a lot of ideas in the Trump administration.
DOGE has ideas. Kennedy has ideas. But I think what we're waiting on is to see exactly what President Trump proposes, because we -- when I say we, I'm talking about the House Republicans. We want to try to pass as much of his legislative agenda as quickly as possible.
BROWN: I want to talk about pardons, because both former President Biden and President Trump have been using their constitutional pardon power and really sort of pushing and stretching the limits of what we have seen historically.
Let's start with former President Biden. You, of course, have been critical of him preemptively pardoning his family before leaving office. You have written a book about the Biden family that's just out this last week.
COMER: Yes.
BROWN: Will you call on members of the Biden family to testify to Oversight?
COMER: Well, they have -- that ball is in Pam Bondi's court.
Look, we did a report. We were very transparent with the report. I said, and was attacked by the media for saying it, that 10 different Biden family members received incremental payments that had been laundered through shell companies into their personal accounts.
Now, six of them have just gotten pardoned, the five that President Biden pardoned going out the door, plus his son. In fact, the three spouses that were pardoned, the only place in the world their names were mentioned was in our report and in my book, "All the President's Money."
We detail who got the . And in the footnotes and endnotes, it shows the pattern of how they got it. So, even President Biden's own Department of Justice, when they were arguing against the January 6 release -- releasing the January 6 prisoners, they said that a pardon would be an admission of guilt.
And I think that, when you're talking about Joe Biden's family, it's obviously an admission of guilt that he pardoned six of them preemptively. I mean, the sister, the in-laws and one brother had never been charged with anything. We only charged Hunter and Jim Biden with perjury and lying to Congress.
Obviously, there are other crimes, and I write about it in the book, violation of Foreign Agents Registration Act, money laundering, tax evasion, that we believe all the family could be charged for. And I believe that someone read my book that was advising Joe Biden and that's why they issued those pardons preemptively out the door. And they never had a press conference to talk about it. And, yes, it's a bad deal.
BROWN: It's true. We didn't hear from former President Biden on this.
Now, he has said that he did these pardons because he was concerned his family members would be subjected to legal and political persecution. That is what he has said. And there's not evidence that DOJ is investigating any of the other members. But, clearly, you have your point of view and you wrote about it in your book.
I also want to ask separately, because I know, a lot of times, they're being looked at together.
COMER: Right.
BROWN: But, separately, President Trump's pardons.
Some members of your own party, including Senators Thom Tillis and James Lankford, have criticized President Trump's pardoning of violent January 6 offenders. I mean, some of these recipients battered police with a metal baton, a fire extinguisher, a stun gun, a pole, a wooden plank.
You were at the Capitol that day. You have condemned the violence. Do you agree with those pardons?
COMER: Well, here's the difference.
Donald Trump campaigned and said he was going to pardon the January 6 people. I mean, he was very transparent about it, unlike Joe Biden, who I believe went on CNN, I believe it was Jake Tapper show, and said that he would never pardon his family and he would not issue any preemptive pardons.
[11:15:14]
So there's a difference, that Trump was transparent. He campaigned on this, said he was going to release the prisoners.
BROWN: But not the broad -- I guess it's the broad swathe.
(CROSSTALK)
COMER: Right. Right.
BROWN: He did say -- and that is true. He did say, look, I'm going to pardon them. But even his vice president, Pam Bondi...
COMER: Right.
BROWN: ... and others said, even Speaker Johnson said, if they were violent, they really shouldn't get a pass. They have gotten this pass.
COMER: Yes. One of the problems with this whole January 6 situation is the January 6 Committee. And we believe that they botched a lot of things. There's a significant percentage of Americans, especially conservative Americans, that believe that many of those rioters were enticed by undercover FBI agents and people within the FBI.
The FBI has not been forthcoming. I don't know if that's true or not, Pam, but I don't believe anything that the January 6 Committee wrote. And when Joe Biden pardoned the whole January 6 meeting, which is unprecedented -- Jamie Raskin, I know he's been on CNN several times saying you should never pardon.
He was criticizing Matt Gaetz's wanting to pardon in the last Trump administration. And he was just blasting one. He and Adam Schiff accepted pardons from Joe Biden. So the credibility of the January 6 Committee has been thrown out the door.
And I think most Americans are confused what happened. Again, President Trump said he was going to do it, he did it. And you -- the reporter had mentioned that maybe he was going to have some of them come in.
BROWN: Yes. And...
COMER: I think that would be great to have a press conference and let them -- and I'm sure CNN is reaching out to them.
BROWN: And I know our Donie O'Sullivan, our reporter, has been out talking to them to put a button this.
COMER: Yes.
BROWN: He did talk about pardoning some of them.
But I think for people in your own party, I think the thing that concerns them is the violent offenders attack -- support the police, law and order, and they're getting a free pass here. And I think that is what seems to be bothering some like Thom Tillis, Senator Lankford.
COMER: Yes.
BROWN: I mean, do you share some of that concern that this could set a bad precedent and raise safety concerns and that kind of thing?
COMER: Well, obviously, we support the police. I support the police. We have always been there to make sure we didn't cut the budget to the police force, make sure they had bulletproof vests and the equipment they need to be able to protect themselves.
We certainly don't condone violence against police. I think that this is a question that President Trump will be asked, and I think that he will certainly give his reasoning as to why.
But with respect to the pardons, my answer is, he said he was going to do it, unlike Joe Biden, who said he was not going to do it. So I think that's where I am. I support the president's decision. And -- but I do think you should -- I think Joe Biden should explain more. I believe he should have to come on your show and answer why he pardoned his people, and certainly Trump can answer questions about the ones in question.
But, again, Pam, so many of these people that were incarcerated never had a trial. I mean, they didn't have due process. And what's taking so long? Now, some of them had been charged, the ones that you mentioned.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But the other ones who hadn't had the trial were dismissed, I think, by DOJ.
COMER: Yes. Right. Yes.
BROWN: Chair James Comer, thank you so much for giving us sort of the lay of the land from the Republican side of things.
COMER: Thank you.
BROWN: And we look forward to having you back on the show soon.
COMER: Thank you, Pam.
BROWN: Thank you very much.
And still ahead this hour: President Trump just gave immigration officials the green light to conduct raids at places that were previously off-limits like churches and schools. Not everyone is on board, though. Some community leaders in Chicago say they will not comply and will protect the children in their care at all costs.
I will speak with one of them up next.
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[11:23:35]
BROWN: Breaking news, this morning, the Justice Department is threatening to prosecute officials who don't cooperate with President Trump's immigration crackdown. That's according to a DOJ memo obtained by CNN.
And it says both local and state officials could be held accountable. The president's ramped-up campaign against illegal immigration is creating a new sense of fear in many migrant communities. And the Department of Homeland Security says immigration officers will now be allowed to carry out raids in schools and churches.
Longstanding policy had called for avoiding those so-called sensitive areas to arrest undocumented immigrants.
And joining us now as Father Homero Sanchez, the pastor of St. Rita of Cascia Parish on Chicago's South Side. Father, thank you for coming on. Ninety percent of your congregation
is Hispanic. What is your reaction to knowing that your church could be subjected to an immigration raid?
FATHER HOMERO SANCHEZ, ST. RITA OF CASCIA: Well, certainly, it's just not my reaction. It's the reaction of the community.
The community of St. Rita and the South Side is in fear right now. It's surprisingly empty. We can see the houses that -- people are still in the houses. They have taken a week off work because they're afraid. There -- I was Monday in the restaurant.
We were -- it was in the middle of the day. We were the fourth table they were serving, when, usually, there was a packed restaurant. People are in fear.
[11:25:08]
BROWN: You say people are...
SANCHEZ: The reaction of the people...
BROWN: Go ahead. I thought you were done. Finish.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
The reaction of the people really is evident. People are hiding.
BROWN: Are some actually leaving the country now?
SANCHEZ: Well, that, I don't think is happening. People are here because they need to be here. They're supporting family back home. There may be something -- people sick back in their own countries.
They're here because they are -- they need to be here. Many were people that are not here just because they want to be here, they want to be mistreated. They don't want to do that. They don't want to be mistreated. They don't want to be called with the racist names.
They're here because they need to work.
BROWN: So you have said that some parishioners are even arranging the sale of their homes if they are detained. Tell us more about that.
SANCHEZ: Well, people -- and I was calling with some families and members of our congregation yesterday and today.
They have been taking a week or more than a week from work, because they're afraid they're going to be taken from there. They're afraid that immigration is just going to call them in the middle of the work shift, and they're going to question them about their immigration status.
They're afraid that, on the way to work, they're going to be stopped on a traffic light or they're going to stop on the way to work, or somebody is giving them a ride or something else. So they prefer to stay home. They prefer to be lacking of the basic necessities. And that's going to be a reaction that is going to happen in the next week or so.
We will have to find a way to help those that are going to be in need very soon.
BROWN: What about some of the children, children who may be a U.S. citizen, but have parents who are here undocumented? What about them? What are they telling you?
SANCHEZ: Our poor children are the ones that are suffering the most.
Just to tell you a very short story, one of the kids came up and said: "I want to burn my birth certificate, because if my parents are taken, I want to go with them. I don't want to be staying behind."
Kids, the poor kids, they want to -- they don't want to go to school. They may be afraid that they -- when they come back to home, they're not going to be their parents there waiting for them, or their parents are -- not going to be picked up from school. It's really difficult.
Fear is something real in our community right now.
BROWN: What do you say, though, to Americans? And the poll shows us that the majority, and many of the poll show the majority of Americans want there to be tougher immigration enforcement.
Chicago is a sanctuary city, and, currently, local officials are barred from cooperating with federal authorities on immigration matters. Do you think, for example, violent criminals who are here illegally should be handed over for deportation, they should be targeted, or not?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
I mean, and that's one thing that we have to be very. Clear in the Hispanic community, we are not protecting criminals. We're actually saying, if somebody is criminal, they have to pay for their mistakes, and they have to correct what they have done wrong.
And the Latino community is not against it. The Latino Hispanic community is saying, OK, if they're going to deport criminals, that's fine. And that's not a problem. The problem is that maybe they're going to be targeting one person that may have committed a crime, but that person maybe with another 20 Hispanics around that may be without documents, and they're going to be taken as well.
There is not going to be mercy. And that's exactly what the president had said, that there is not going to be mercy on anyone. So it's OK to deport and make those who are criminals to clean our cities, to clean our country. That's fine. We support that.
And there are many Anglo families that have come and say: "Hey, Father, if you need something, if a family needs to -- a place to stay for a few weeks, give us a call." Families, Anglo families have offered their houses for them. But the problem here is that we don't know where immigration officers
are going to come into, where they're going to take the -- these people from or who are they targeting. Are they going to target as well people that may have one traffic violation? Is that enough to consider someone criminal? I don't think so.
BROWN: Father Homero Sanchez, thank you so much for providing that perspective in your community. Very important.
We will be right back.
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