Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
House Speaker Defends Trump Decision to Pardon January 6 Rioters Who Attacked Police Officers; U.S. Military Orders Thousands More Troops to Southern Border; Interview With Michael Fanone; Trump May Invite January 6 Convicts to White House. Aired 11:30a-12p ET
Aired January 22, 2025 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:30:00]
FATHER HOMERO SANCHEZ, ST. RITA OF CASCIA: Is that enough to consider someone criminal? I don't think so.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Father Homero Sanchez, thank you so much for providing that perspective in your community. Very important.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And new this hour, sources tell CNN that Trump administration officials have discussed inviting some pardoned January 6 convicts to the White House for a potential visit and meeting with the president.
[11:35:09]
One of the officers attacked on January 6, Michael Fanone, joins us now.
First, your reaction to these discussions happening in the White House, Michael, to invite some of the rioters to the White House?
MICHAEL FANONE, FORMER D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICER: It doesn't surprise me.
Donald Trump has, excuse me, ingratiated himself with these violent criminals ever since he announced his candidacy from Waco, Texas. That being said, it's obviously outrageous. It's an insult. But Donald Trump is an insurrectionist president.
And so I think it's fitting, to be honest with you.
BROWN: Tell us more about this phone call that police received -- I'm assuming you received it from DOJ as well -- that the January 6 rioters who were testified against will be released.
FANONE: Interestingly enough, I didn't get those phone calls.
But I know that the individuals that were charged with assaulting have been released. And let's talk about who these individuals are because I want the American people to understand fully.
I want every person that comes on CNN and defends these pardons to understand who these individuals were. They are Daniel Rodriguez, an individual who applied a Taser device to my neck while I was being restrained multiple times.
Daniel Rodriguez admitted his conduct, pled guilty, and was sentenced to 12.5 years in prison. He is now free.
Kyle Young, pled guilty, admitted that, while I was being restrained, assaulted, and beaten, he attempted to remove my gun from its holster, all while individuals were telling him to kill me with my gun.
Thomas Sibick, who stripped me of my badge and radio, again, while I was being assaulted and restrained, and Albuquerque Cosper Head, who grabbed me around the neck, pulled me off a police line out into the crowd of these violent insurrectionists, allowing this assault to take place while he yelled out: "I have got one."
These are violent criminals whose conduct on January 6 many of whom pled guilty to and were sentenced to lengthy jail sentences. They are all now free.
Make no mistake about it, I am less safe, my family is less safe because of what Donald Trump and the American people who supported him have done.
BROWN: Everything you just mentioned, what has the impact been on you personally with your physical health and your mental health?
FANONE: I mean, I'm still here. I'm not going to go away.
I'm not going to be quiet. I'm going to push back against these outrageous actions by Donald Trump and his supporters.
BROWN: You say that you feel less safe, that your family is less safe now that these rioters that you mentioned have been pardoned. How so? Tell us about that and how you feel less safe right now.
FANONE: I mean, listen, these are individuals who assaulted law enforcement officers at the behest of Donald Trump, the president.
They are now free. Donald Trump has told the American people: If you commit crimes on my behalf, I have got your back. I will pardon you. I will absolve you of any accountability.
What message do you think that sends to Donald Trump supporters, people like the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, the 3 Percenters, these violent -- violent anti-government groups who Donald Trump has brought into his inner circle?
It says, go out there and assault my detractors. Go out there and silence those that would stand up against me, and I will make sure that you are never held to account.
The rule of law in this country is dead. Criminal justice in this country is dead, and people like myself cannot turn to the institutions traditionally charged with protecting American citizens from violent attacks just like this, because the Department of Justice is not the independent body that we have all come to know and respect.
[11:40:14]
The Department of Justice is Donald Trump's Department of Justice. The FBI is Donald Trump's FBI. Local law enforcement is Donald Trump's local law enforcement. Make no mistake about it. These police departments, they will fall in line with Donald Trump and his orders.
You will not see the mass resignations that so many people have speculated would occur when Donald Trump comes in, tears up the Constitution, and starts doing whatever the hell he wants to do.
BROWN: I believe we have sound from the Oath Keepers' leader, Stewart Rhodes, who spoke after he was released from prison. And I want to listen to that and then get your reaction to that on the other side, Michael. So let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Any regrets?
STEWART RHODES, FOUNDER AND LEADER, OATH KEEPERS: No, I don't, because we did the right thing. We were there to protect Trump supporters from Antifa. We were there to protect and secure two permitted events on Capitol grounds where members of Congress were going to speak.
The guys that went inside did not commit any crimes. In fact, they helped people. They helped police and helped the people out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: He says he has no regrets. What do you say, Michael?
FANONE: Yes, I mean, this is what I would say to Stewart Rhodes: Go fuck yourself.
BROWN: OK.
FANONE: You're a liar.
BROWN: We didn't, obviously, get to beep that word out, but, obviously, you -- this is personal to you, Michael. This is very personal to you.
Do you -- have you been getting any threats? You talked about safety. You worried for your safety and for your family. Have you been getting any direct threats?
FANONE: I never stopped getting threats.
I mean, my family, the threats have never stopped. I didn't even make it through my congressional testimony during the select committee hearing before I received my first threat.
BROWN: And they just continue?
FANONE: In recent months -- and they continue.
In recent months, my mother has had her home swatted. She's a 76-year- old woman who lives alone. She has had bricks thrown at her house in the middle of the night. And just a few months ago, she was out raking her -- the leaves in her front yard when an individual pulled up in a truck and threw a bag of shit on her...
BROWN: Wow.
FANONE: ... all because her son had the courage to testify about his experiences on January 6 as a police officer in this country.
BROWN: What do you say to what Trump claims, is that the election is a referendum on this, the country has moved on, they don't care, they elected me anyway?
What do you say to that and to the Americans who just don't care?
FANONE: I...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Go ahead.
FANONE: I absolutely agree with President Trump. I believe that the election was in part a referendum on January 6, and that most Americans, they don't care, because the characteristics that many of us have come to associate with ourselves as Americans, things like honor, courage, integrity, are all bullshit.
They have been replaced by things like selfishness, self-centeredness and cowardice. And that's how we came to have Donald Trump as our president.
BROWN: All right, Michael Fanone, thank you so much for coming on to talk. And I'm so sorry that your mother has had to go through that. There's no excuse for. That is awful, and all that you have had to go through as well.
FANONE: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:47:19]
BROWN: Breaking news, officials telling CNN thousands more active- duty troops are being ordered to the southern border just two days after President Trump mandated that the U.S. military step up its presence there.
CNN's Natasha Bertrand joins us now.
Natasha, what are we learning?
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pam, so officials do tell us that the U.S. military is ordering thousands of additional active-duty troops to the southern border to help augment the Border Patrol officials there and we should note the active-duty troops that are already at the border assisting in logistical tasks like data entry and transportation, things that don't really have to do with law enforcement.
And so these additional troops are going to be helping with many of the same tasks. It is important to note here that they are not authorized to do things like arrest migrants, conduct searches or seize drugs.
They are primarily going to the border at this point, we are told, to help with resource shortfalls, things like -- again, like helping to transport migrants around facilities, helping with additional intelligence capabilities to track migrant flows, as well as additional threats at the southern border, as well as additional air support and other kind of logistical things that don't actually involve day-to-day extensive contact with migrants coming across the border.
But, still, this is important because it does make good on the promise that President Trump made to step up the military presence at the southern border. And we are told that this is actually not the last of the additional active-duty forces that are going to be sent there. We're told that this is essentially just the first wave of troops that are being sent.
And they are going to be augmented even further in the coming weeks and months. Now, again, these are not going to be performing a law enforcement function. But if, within 90 days, the president and the secretary of defense determine that the border is still not under control, President Trump did say in an executive order on Monday that he will make the determination whether or not to invoke the Insurrection Act, which would then allow him to use those active-duty forces for law enforcement purposes, Pam.
BROWN: All right, Natasha, thanks so much.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:52:02]
BROWN: We are following more breaking news.
House Speaker Mike Johnson is now talking about President Trump freeing violent Capitol rioters and far right militia leaders. CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill.
Manu, how is the speaker defending Trump?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the speaker in fact before the elections did not believe that Donald Trump would go this far.
In fact, he even said this even after the elections as well, said that he believes that the president would pardon peaceful protesters, but violent criminals should not be pardoned. That was his previous comment. But Donald Trump has now pardoned more than 1,500 or so Capitol rioters, including those who attacked police.
And I asked the speaker directly about those pardons for those individuals who attacked Capitol Police officers and the Republican contention that they stand with law enforcement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: The Republicans have long said you guys back the blue. How do you justifiably say that when Trump just pardoned a bunch of violent January 6 rioters who attacked Capitol Police?
And if those rioters come to the Capitol, will you welcome them back here?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): So, look, everybody can describe this however they want. The president has the pardon and commutation authority. It's his decision.
And I think what the -- what was made clear all along is that peaceful protests and people who engage in that should never be punished. There was a weaponization of the Justice Department. There was a weaponization of the events, the following -- the prosecutions that happened after January 6.
It was a terrible time and a terrible chapter in America's history. The president's made his decision. I don't second-guess those. And, yes, it's kind of my ethos, my world view. We believe in redemption. We believe in second chances. If you could -- you would argue that those people didn't pay a heavy penalty, having been incarcerated and all of that, that's up to you.
But the president's made a decision. We move forward. There are better days ahead of us. That's what we're excited about. We're not looking backwards. We're looking forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: But even as the speaker said he's not looking backwards, they're looking forward, he did look backwards at the pardons that Joe Biden gave on the way out the door. He called those shocking.
Of course, Biden gave preemptive pardons to his family. And that is something that the speaker indicated that he did not support, was sharply critical, not critical at all, though, of President Trump's decision to pardon all these individuals, including people who came here to attack the Capitol.
Now, there is some talk too, Pamela, about those same rioters who have just been freed by Donald Trump to come to essentially the scene of the crime, to come to the Capitol and visit with members of the House GOP. In fact, members of the far right House Freedom Caucus are talking right now with some of those rioters to come to the Capitol.
They told me that they are willing to meet with them. They don't know exactly when yet. But as you heard there, when I asked the speaker directly if he would welcome them back to the Capitol, he would not say directly. In fact, you heard his defense of Donald Trump's decision there. He said he believes in redemption and the like.
That's a much different message than a lot of Republicans had as they assumed Donald Trump would not free these violent rioters. But he did. And now Republicans are struggling to defend him, even as the speaker just did right there -- Pamela.
[11:55:10]
BROWN: All right, interesting that that's what the speaker is saying now, after just a few days ago saying that the violent offenders shouldn't be.
But, Manu Raju, thank you so much.
And thank you all for joining us. I'm Pamela Brown. You can follow me on Instagram, TikTok and X @PamelaBrownCNN.
Stay with us. "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts after a short break.