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Rep. Leigh Finke (D-MN), Is Interviewed About Trump Expected To Sign Exec. Order Banning Transgender Service Members; Surprise Chinese A.I. Advancement Shocks Nasdaq, Down Almost 600 Pts; Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL), Is Interviewed About Colombia Sending Govt. Planes To Pick Up Migrants In The U.S. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired January 27, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:50]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good Monday morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. A lot of news to get to today. Today, sources are telling my colleague, Alayna Treene and I -- and me, I should say that -- executive orders that could reshape the face of the military, including banning transgender service members. And it comes as his newly confirmed secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, has arrived at the Pentagon for his first day on the job. CNN national security correspondent Natasha Bertrand is at the Pentagon. Natasha, so let's start on these expected executive orders. Tell us more about who is impacted here.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Pam. And Hegseth did seem to confirm that these executive orders are in the works when he spoke to reporters just a short time ago here at the Pentagon. Look, these are aimed at transgender service members as well as gutting DEI programs from the military and finally reinstating service members who were discharged from the military because they refused to get the COVID vaccine.

Now, in terms of the transgender ban, this is something that President Trump issued during his first administration back in 2017. He barred transgender service members from actively serving in the military. That was then overturned by President Biden. And now it seems as though this is going to be reinstated. However, it remains to be seen exactly how the department is actually going to carry out this policy. Are currently serving transgender service members going to be ejected from the military?

It is also unclear just how many service members are going to be kicked out or if there are going to be any exceptions to this. But we should note that this does seem to go a little bit further than previous executive orders on this issue. And it says here in a fact sheet that we obtained from the White House that it can take a minimum of 12 months for an individual to complete treatments after transition surgery, which often involves the use of heavy narcotics.

Now, the White House is arguing that because of that, these service members should not be allowed to be in the military. And so it remains to be seen, again, just how this is going to play out. But that is the one that is arguably the most consequential here, because it could affect the upwards of 14,000 transgender service members currently serving in the U.S. military, Pam.

BROWN: All right, Natasha Bertrand, thank you so much.

And joining us now for more on this is Minnesota State Representative Leigh Finke, the first transgender member of the state's legislature. Thank you so much for coming on. So you just heard Natasha sort of lay this out. Unlike 2017, this new order on transgender people serving in the military goes further by outlining standards regarding gender pronouns. It's unclear if this ban would have exceptions for transgender service members already serving, something that a Pentagon memo recommended during the ban that Trump implemented in his first term. But what do you think about this effort?

REP. LEIGH FINKE (D-MN): Thank you so much for the invitation, Pamela. I think the same thing about this effort that I do with the previous executive orders that the President issued, which is that these are glorified press releases meant to scare people, meant to create uncertainty, meant to push people towards discrimination of transgender people, and will be very difficult to enforce, will take upwards of a year to figure out if this is even going to be possible. And in the meantime, it's going to expose trans folks and make our lives more difficult unnecessarily.

BROWN: A White House official told me that basically, this order today will direct the DoD to figure out the readiness of transgender service members in response to the question of what's going to happen to them, the thousands. And -- and in this order, it -- it talked about, you know, it talked about that -- that, you know, raising the question of whether transgender service members have the readiness or whether they should be banned from the military. What do you say to that?

FINKE: I would say that there is no evidence anywhere that has been presented that transgender service members are anything but qualified to be a part of our military service. The military is the largest employer of transgender Americans. You heard up to 14,000, 15,000 members identify as trans. And 56 of our retired generals have said that our trans members are -- are ready to serve. They are fit to serve. This will only make our military less ready to serve by taking 15,000 people who volunteered out of service.

[11:05:23]

BROWN: So the -- the order also talks about, as -- as Natasha noted, this fact sheet. It said it can take a minimum of 12 months for an individual to complete treatments after transition sure -- transition surgery, which often involves the use of heavy narcotics during this period. They are not physically capable of meeting military readiness -- readiness requirements and require ongoing medical care. This is not conducive for deployment or other readiness requirements.

I want to get your response to that. But also, I spoke to Chris Beck on the phone this morning. You may remember him. He was a Navy SEAL who became a transgender woman, and then he transitioned back. He told me he agrees what President Trump is doing and said, quote, they're 100 percent unfit for duty. They're on pills and different surgeries and you have complications with surgeries. You cannot deploy even if you have tooth issues. I'm curious, what do you say to all of that?

FINKE: I would say that those are decisions that are best made by doctors and patients, including military doctors. This is another version of our political discriminatory MAGA Republicans trying to use pseudoscience to discriminate against an entire demographic of people. If individuals are prescribed medication by their doctors and that medication does or does not interfere with their ability to do their work, then that is something that those patients and their doctors should be discussing. It is not something to be releasing via executive order.

That is essentially unenforceable, creating panic and fear at a time when we do not need to do that. If -- if doctors in the military are going to make policy for their patients, we can have a conversation about that. But a blanket discriminatory practice against an entire demographic of people is uncalled for and it's irresponsible.

BROWN: From your personal experience, though, what was it like for you to transition? Because as you note in this fact sheet from the White House, it -- it says it takes a minimum of 12 months for an individual to complete treatments after transition surgery. Was that what your experience was?

FINKE: I don't talk about my personal transition medical experience. That is an incredibly personal experience, and it is not something that can be created. A blanket policy cannot be created to address the personal experience of transition. Not only is it irresponsible and -- and degrading to our personal lived experience, but it misunderstands the very idea of transition and what it means for us to exist as full human participants in our culture, whether or not an individual chooses to have surgery, whether or not an individual chooses to disclose every element of their personal experience or medical history with the public or the president.

These are matters that do not need to be aired in the way that they are being aired. It is simply a discriminatory tactic to isolate, single out trans people and punish us for our participation in society.

BROWN: So since Donald Trump re-entered office, has your experience changed, especially in the wake of some of these executive orders you alluded to? Last week he rolled back protections for transgender people, such as segregating federal prisons by sex assigned at birth and only recognizing two sexes, saying that they're not changeable. How -- how has that impacted you?

FINKE: It has impacted me personally, as I think it has all trans people in this country, because these are not executive orders that change the laws of the United States. They are intended to create a public terrorism campaign against our community. And of course, I have felt that as a public facing advocate for trans rights in Minnesota and across the country, the intention of this is not to change the law immediately because he simply cannot do that. The intention of this is to create panic, to get media, to repeat all of the dangers that we face over and over, to make sure that people think twice about participating in the public space. And -- and as a leader in the trans community, I will not be pushed out and I will continue to advocate. And -- and as a result of that, I would say that I have had a very hard week.

BROWN: Minnesota State Representative Leigh Finke. I'm sorry to hear that you've had such a hard week. Thank you for coming on.

[11:10:03]

FINKE: Thank you for the invitation.

BROWN: Up next, how an unknown Chinese startup company is sending shockwaves through U.S. stock markets and has the NASDAQ plunging. This is a huge story. Stick around for this.

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[11:14:58]

BROWN: Breaking news into CNN. If you haven't heard of a company called DeepSeek, listen up. Adjacent to the U.S. stock market into turmoil, especially the tech sector, there you see right here, the tech heavy NASDAQ right now it's down almost 600 points. A.I. chipmaker giant, Nvidia, is also plummeting. It's down more than 12 percent. Just now -- Matt Egan joins us just now. So Matt, how did a one-year-old A.I. startup company from China rattle the markets like this?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Pamela, it's dying and I'll one up you there. The company's only about a year old, but this specific model, it's only been around for a week. So what's happened is that DeepSeek has come up with this new A tech -- A.I. technology that is competitive with the newest and best A.I. models on the market right now. And that is really surprising investors and I would imagine officials in Washington. Because what's happened is that this company says that they were able to build this new model at just a fraction of the cost of what it actually normally would cost to build some of these A.I. models. DeepSeek says it only costs $5.6 million to build this new model. That is a drop in the bucket to the hundreds of millions of dollars that the other A.I. company says that it costs.

And this new model launched, like I said, about a week ago, but it's already at the top of the charts on the Apple App Store, leading the way, surpassing ChatGPT in terms of most downloaded apps. And the reason why this is really unnerving investors is because it is making people kind of question some of the conventional wisdom here. One, that you need to spend gobs of money to develop the best A.I. technology. And two, that you need access to the top of the line most expensive computer chips. Because remember the Biden administration imposed these export restrictions on those computer chips, preventing them from going to China. So that's raising questions about how this startup was able to do that. And it's also causing Nvidia's stock price to plunge. Now Nvidia's been one of the superstars of the A.I. boom. It's gone so high in the last few years, but look at this, down 14.5 percent today. It's lost more than $400 billion in market value. Listen, there have been concerns, Pamela, lead up to this sell off, that some of the gains in the market had gotten too concentrated, that some of these tech stocks had gotten too expensive. So this is clearly a real gut check for the market.

BROWN: Is it possible though, Matt, that some of this is -- this overblown, you know, this reaction?

EGAN: It -- it is possible in part because to some extent we have to take DeepSeeks word for it, right? We don't actually know how much money they spend here. We don't totally know how all of this works. We don't really know which computer chips they had access to. It's also worth noting that the broader market has held up pretty well today, right, the non-tech stocks. Initially this morning, Dow Futures were down about 400 points. But you look there, the Dow is only down 30 points on the day, the S&P 500 down about 1 percent, 1.5 percent. So the rest of the market is reacting a little bit better than I had expected.

And I think one of the silver linings for the non-A.I. companies is that this breakthrough from DeepSeek suggest that maybe the cost of these A.I. models might not be as much as they had thought. So if you're a company that had been looking to use some A.I. technology, maybe it's not going to be as expensive as we previously thought.

BROWN: All right. Matt Egan, thank you so much.

EGAN: Thanks Pamela.

[11:18:41]

BROWN: And still ahead this hour, federal agents conducted immigration operations in several major cities over the weekend, including Chicago, Atlanta and Los Angeles. And today, Texas Governor Abbott says he is sending more military equipment to the border. I'll speak with two lawmakers on both sides of this debate, ahead.

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BROWN: Well, this just into CNN. Colombia is sending two government planes to pick up migrants in the U.S. who were officially originally scheduled to be on U.S. military flights. So this follows a tense couple of days where President Trump threatens steep tariffs on the country after it refused to take migrants being deported on U.S. military planes. Priscilla Alvarez is here with us. Quite the turn of events here, Priscilla.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this has been a clash that has played out publicly for all to see between these two world leaders that otherwise would be close allies. So a Trump administration official telling me that now Colombia is sending two government planes to pick up migrants who are originally scheduled to go on those U.S. military flights. Now, the U.S. military flights has added a new wrinkle to all of this because this was part of President Donald Trump's national emergency declaration, essentially using military assets to repatriate migrants, among other efforts.

Now, Colombia has taken a lot of deportation flights on civilian aircraft. But what the Colombian president appeared to take issue with was the fact that they are returning on military aircraft. Now, I will tell you, Pamela, I reviewed documents that show that Colombian officials had OK'ed migrants being returned on military -- military flights. So this sudden post by the Colombian president on Sunday really caught both the Trump administration officials by surprise, but also those within the Colombian government, which led to this feud that has played out between the United States and Colombia.

[11:25:05]

Now, that included the threats of tariffs by President Trump and then the Colombian president also threatening his own retaliatory measures against the U.S. Well, they did ultimately cut a deal. And this deal includes these flights that I'm telling you about with these two government planes coming to collect migrants who crossed the U.S.- Mexico border who are Colombian to return them. Colombia has also agreed to take civilian and military aircraft that have deportees.

And I'm also told that part of this agreement was that they would reinforce what is known as the Darien Gap. That's a treacherous jungle where migrants cross as they make their way to the United States. That has been a clear focus for this administration and the Biden administration in trying to stem the flow of migration. So all of this really coming together in hours after what was an unexpected pushed by the Colombian president or pushed back by the Colombian president on these flights.

BROWN: Wow. I mean, just to see this all play out in the public and this, the capitulation in the end by Colombia, extraordinary. Thank you so much, Priscilla Alvarez.

And we have two lawmakers who are critically involved in enforcing these immigration policies, Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro of Texas and Republican Congressman Carlos Gimenez. Thank you both for your time this morning. I want to begin with you, Congressman Gimenez. You represent Florida, including part of Miami-Dade County. I first want to get your reaction to what Priscilla just laid out there, that Colombia is now sending two of its planes to pick up some of the -- the Colombians who are here illegally.

REP. CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL): Thank you. It's going to save American taxpayers some money that our military planes won't have to go to Colombia to return Amer -- Colombian citizens back to Colombia. If they want to pick them up in their own military planes, I think that's fine. It saves us taxpayer money. So I'm -- I'm OK with that.

BROWN: So ICE is reporting nearly a thousand arrests of undocumented migrants just yesterday alone. Are you surprised by how quickly this crackdown has accelerated?

GIMENEZ: No, not at all. I mean, that's -- that's what President Trump run -- ran on. And he is, you know -- you know, he's complying with his promises. And his campaign promises were that he's going to control the border and that he is going, those that have deportation orders, are going to be take him back to their country of origin. And so, yes, he -- he's just coming through with his promises. And so it doesn't surprise me at all. The action and the quick action and totally different action that this administration has taken versus the previous administration.

BROWN: Is your office looped in at all on these activities. What are you hearing from your constituents on the immigration crackdown?

GIMENEZ: Look, most of my constituents are fine. My -- my constituents are here legally. They want legal immigration. They're not in favor of illegal immigration. And if somebody has a deportation order, my constituents are fine with those people being deported back to their country of origin.

BROWN: So sources tell CNN that ICE field offices have been given a quota, at least 75 arrests a day. We should note that border czar, Tom Homan, says there isn't a quota. But a former ICE chief counsel has concerns about that. This is Paul Hunker telling "The Washington Post," quote, quotas will incentivize ICE officers to arrest the easiest people to arrest rather than the people that are dangerous noncitizens. I've just never heard of that, end quote. Are you concerned about the use of quotas?

GIMENEZ: Well, Tom Homan says there are no quotas, so.

BROWN: Right. But we have -- we've been talking to other sources.

GIMENEZ: He says there's no quotas, so why -- why are we talking about quotas when -- when the person in charge says there are no quotas.

BROWN: OK. So let's say this. So -- so Tom Homan says that sources tell my colleague, Priscilla Alvarez, that there -- that -- that ICE agents have been told there are quotas. That is the case. Are you concerned? Do quotas risk losing sight of the fact that these are people, not numbers?

GIMENEZ: No, look, I don't believe that there is quotas. And so I'm not going to say, hey, sources say. Which sources? Who are they?

BROWN: So you don't believe there should be quotas.

GIMENEZ: Come out and tell us who you're --

BROWN: Should you not -- do you not believe there should be quotas.

GIMENEZ: No, no. I think -- I think -- I -- no, no. I think ICE needs to do their job, period. There shouldn't be a quota, just like I don't think there should be quotas for writing tickets, traffic tickets and stuff. And so, yes, I think there should be no quotas, and people just ought to do their job. And Homeland Security needs to do their job and deport the people that have deportation orders in an orderly fashion, and that's the way it should happen.

BROWN: So you said deport people with deportation orders in an orderly fashion. There are concerns, as you've heard, I'm sure, from other countries, including Brazil, about the way that the -- these deportation flights have been handled. Brazil condemned the Trump administration's handling of repatriated migrants on these flights, calling their treatment degrading. I want to listen -- I want you to listen to what one person said about this and talk about that at the other end. Let's listen.

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[11:29:57]

JEFERSON MAIA, BRAZILIAN DEPORTED FROM U.S. (through translator): They attacked the kids. I sat there until I reached my limit. I couldn't take it anymore. People fainted. I asked to leave and he choked me. He pulled my handcuffs. I couldn't --