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Immigration Crackdown; Interview With Rep. Joaquin Castro (D- TX); Interview With Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL). Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired January 27, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[11:30:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFERSON MAIA, BRAZILIAN DEPORTED FROM UNITED STATES: I couldn't take it anymore. People fainted. I asked to leave, and he choked me. He pulled my handcuffs. I couldn't stay because I was handcuffed on my feet and stomach. There was nothing I could do.

The security guard's arm started bleeding because he was pulling my chain, squeezing me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: That was a Brazilian deported from the U.S.

We should note for our viewers we have not been able to independently verify that.

But, as you just heard from that Brazilian, that -- if treatment happened, as he said, is that acceptable to you?

REP. CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL): Listen, it all depends -- it depends on this -- the Brazilian.

Look, we are deporting a lot of criminals, OK, that were convicted here in the United States and we're deporting them back to their country of origin. Just that's number one priority. And so, if they are indeed criminals, yes, they're going to be handcuffed and then they're going to be shipped back to their country of origin.

Look, everybody should be treated with dignity. Everybody should be treated the right way. But I don't know who this person is. I don't know if he's telling the truth. There were a lot of accusations before about the Trump administration and how they were treating migrants supposedly back in his first term that turned out to be bogus.

So I'm not going to comment on this until I find out it's really true.

BROWN: I want to ask you about something that you said recently in an interview talking about drug cartels. You said they should be wiped off the face of the earth. What do you mean by that specifically?

GIMENEZ: I mean that they need to be eliminated as a threat to American citizens. They have been killing tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of American citizens and been doing it with impunity.

They have now been labeled a terrorist organization which they should have been labeled a terrorist organization a long time ago. Hey, look, al Qaeda came to the United States and they killed 3,000 Americans in a tragic -- what happened in 9/11.

And we went half way around the world to eliminate them. We have got cartels that are killing hundreds of thousands of Americans, tens of thousands of Americans every year right across the border with impunity.

Yes, we need to protect American citizens. And so they need to pay the price, that...

BROWN: How do you do that?

GIMENEZ: ... no, we cannot -- how do you do that? First, you call the president of...

BROWN: How do you do it with an ally in a sovereign country?

GIMENEZ: Oh, yes.

BROWN: How do you handle that? I'm just curious what your thoughts are..

GIMENEZ: I will be happy to tell you.

BROWN: Sure.

GIMENEZ: I will be happy to tell you, OK?

Pick up the phone and call the president of Mexico and say, hey, this situation across the border, we can't tolerate -- we're not going to tolerate anymore because your people, your cartels are killing tens of thousands of Americans.

And it's our number one duty is to protect American citizens. And if you can't do it, then I guess we're going to have to take things into our hands and do it ourselves.

BROWN: What does that look like? Dropping bombs? What does that look like?

GIMENEZ: It looks like taking measures to eliminate the threat to American citizens.

BROWN: All right, Congressman Carlos Gimenez, thank you so much.

GIMENEZ: My pleasure.

BROWN: Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro joins us now. He represents San Antonio, which was on President Trump's initial list of immigration targets.

First, I want to get your reaction to what you just heard from your Republican colleague, Congressman Gimenez.

REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX): Well, I mean, I think that Americans want a few things. They want a secure border, they want safe communities, and they want a prosperous economy.

And the problem with what Donald Trump is doing now is that he's causing chaos, rather than addressing those things. So, for example, look, I think that people generally agree, if you have a convicted felon, they should be deported. There isn't a debate about that. That's what President Obama did. That's what President Biden did. That's what President Trump did in his first term.

But President Trump specifically removed the Biden executive order that said that criminals should be prioritized. So what happens then is that he wants permission for ICE agents, or he's directing ICE agents to go into schools, to go into churches, to go into hospitals.

The reason that he wants a quota is because this is in some ways a big show. This chaos is a big reality TV show. He had Dr. Phil over there in Chicago at the ice raids. Dr. Phil, the TV guy, was at the immigration ICE raids.

And so this has all created a lot of chaos. It's like with the Colombia situation. These deportation flights have been going to countries like Colombia for years and years. And when the Colombian president reacted, whoever was right or wrong, when the Colombian president reacted because it was military planes, and perhaps he'd heard that the folks that were detained weren't being treated properly, you can solve that easily with a phone call.

You don't have to go up on Twitter and threaten 25 percent tariffs or 50 percent tariffs or whatever it is. Everything he's doing is creating chaos, and it's making the United States weaker in the world without making us safer.

BROWN: What would you say, though, to the White House, who would likely argue to what you just said, look, because of what President Trump did, now Colombia is sending two planes and saving taxpayer dollars, we worked out a deal that was even better for us in the end?

[11:35:04]

What do you say to that?

CASTRO: Look, it's true we may save $20,000, and yet you would be harder-pressed to find a nation in South America that's been a greater friend of the United States than Colombia.

To give you an example, most countries in South America over the last 10 years or so have started to do more trade with China than the United States. Colombia is one of the few countries that still does a lot more trade with the United States than with China.

And so you have got literally one of your best allies and partners that really likes the United States, and you have got a president who is going out there and antagonizing them. And I will tell you, what's going to happen is that all of these countries that he's making threats to, whether it's Denmark, Canada, Mexico, Panama, Colombia, they're going to start to talk to each other.

They're going to start to figure out how, in the coming years, you sideline the United States from their economies. So, instead of hiring United States suppliers and businesses and welcoming United States trade, they're going to figure out how they can do it with China, with European nations and with each other in Latin America.

And, in the end, the United States is going to be weaker.

BROWN: I want to talk about the immigration raids we saw over the weekend and circle back to that. And I'm wondering if you have been able to determine what sort of crimes ICE focused on. It said that it was primarily focused on those who are here illegally and who have criminal records.

And do you know if anyone was detained that doesn't have a criminal record?

CASTRO: Well, yes, I mean, that case out of Newark, New Jersey, where they detained a U.S. citizen.

I think folks should understand the history of mass deportations in the United States. There were two -- at least two major mass deportation campaigns in U.S. history. One of them was called Operation Wetback, which is a slur against Mexicans, but also one during the Great Depression.

And during those years, there were between one million and two million U.S. citizens who ended up being deported to Mexico. So those were people that had every right to be here.

Now, I'm not suggesting that you're going to end up with a million people that are back in Mexico who are U.S. citizens, but there's no way that you can conduct this kind of chaotic mass deportation raid across the country using quotas where you're saying, hey, every day, you have got to go out there and round up a certain number of bodies, there's no way you're going to be able to do that without infringing upon the rights of U.S. citizens and permanent residents, who have a right to be here.

BROWN: And we should note our reporting from sources is that ICE was given this quota. Tom Homan, the border czar, says there is no quota, just to put that information out there to our viewers.

I want to go to the polls here and what Americans think. I think it's really important as we have these conversations to really check in on what Americans believe. And our Harry Enten says that, when you look at the polling from December 2024 until now, in the week Trump has been in office 37 percent of people believe the U.S. is on the right track on immigration.

That is a 20 plus-percent jump from the month prior. So, bottom line here is that Americans are liking what Trump is doing more than what Biden did when it comes to immigration and cracking down. What do you say to that?

CASTRO: Well, first, I think you said 37 percent. If you step back, 37 percent is still not a great number by any measure.

BROWN: Right.

CASTRO: But, look, like I said, I think that people, generally, they want a secure border. There's no question about that. They want to be safe in their communities.

But they also want an economy that is prosperous. And the fact is, there are four or five major American industries, whether it's in Texas, in Arizona, in Florida, wherever you go in the country, in the Midwest, four or five industries that would not exist and would not prosper the way they do but for immigrant labor.

So this has to be done in a way that is fair, that is respectful of human beings, and that doesn't go into places like schools or churches just to traumatize people. I mean, who in a first-grade class is sitting there that is a terrorist, or who's sitting there in third grade that is a criminal?

And so he's used this chaos, I think, for political benefit, but I don't believe that it's made the country safer or more prosperous.

BROWN: Really quickly, before you go, I want your reaction to what Governor Abbott of Texas is doing, adding another 400 members of the Texas National Guard to the U.S.-Mexico border. What do you think?

CASTRO: Well, look, Texas has the longest border of any state in the nation with Mexico. We have got 1,200 miles of border. So immigration, border security, those are always going to be top of mind for Texans, and they should be.

But if you look at what Greg Abbott has done with Operation Lone Star, he sent in Guardsmen who received no training on how to be at the border, how to do that work, who received inadequate conditions, housing, and so forth.

[11:40:00]

And, as a result, there was something like 17 Guardsmen who committed suicide as part of Operation Lone Star.

BROWN: Oh, just froze.

Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro of Texas, we just lost his signal there in his final answer.

Still ahead, more news.

One of those flights Congressman Castro was just mentioning just touched down in Guatemala City. We're going to take you there live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Well, just in, two U.S. deportation flights have just landed in Guatemala as part of President Trump's ongoing immigration crackdown.

CNN senior national correspondent David Culver joins us now from Guatemala City.

So, David, what do we know about these flights?

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Pamela. Yes, you're right.

The one that just touched down -- I'm going to be very careful what we're showing here because some of the folks have asked that we not share their faces. So, sometimes, you will see the camera go down to our feet.

[11:45:09]

But let me give you a sense of the process because you saw them perhaps stepping onto the tarmac, and now they're at the space where you can see these folks in yellow vests who are registering these folks back into Guatemala.

So, for many of them, it's been years since they have lived here, and now they're trying to figure out the reintegration process. We're just going to be careful with faces here too.

But let me just show you over here. This is where they're walking up and getting any sort of necessities, some snacks, toiletries. They have everything from Crocs to T-shirts, shoelaces, because, if you notice, many of them here, I will show you this right down here, he doesn't have shoelaces on, because that's part of the standard procedure for security to remove anything that could be used as a weapon or self-harm.

And they have even got toothpaste and some other snacks. I see them putting their fingerprints down. And then a lot of them come over this way and they start charging their phones. I will just move these sticks over here, so you can come around here, Jerry (ph).

And that's when they're able to then try to finally reconnect with relatives and loved ones who might come to this space to pick them up.

Now, as they're being registered in by -- you can see this is some of the organizations that are helping and trying to get them sorted and essentially processed back into Guatemala. They will then come over to this porch. And they have got some of their belongings here.

I mean, I can see a guitar case. You can see these are almost like potato sacks, Pamela, that have some of their belongings and -- stapled together. And then, inside, I have seen everything from Wawa wrappers to CVS receipts, so things that were just in their pockets that they emptied before boarding.

BROWN: Wow. And you also spoke to the vice president, right, of Guatemala? What did you say?

CULVER: So, the vice -- yes, so the vice president welcomed this group here.

It's interesting, because they leave the U.S. as criminals because they illegally entered, and so that's now why they're being deported back here to Guatemala. And the vice president made a point to say that, obviously, this is a complicated situation. She tried to redirect it mostly to the migrants and what their situation is.

But I asked about relations between the U.S. and Guatemala, especially for what we saw in the past 24 hours with Colombia. And she said, look, that's Colombia's situation. The U.S. and Guatemala have their own relationships, and she was trying to be very careful in how she navigated that.

I also asked -- as we kind of walk around here, I want to give you another sense of some of this. I also asked about what's different, essentially, between what happened the past four years under President Biden and what's changed since under President Trump.

As far as the numbers and the capacity of folks who have been deported, that has not changed, according to the vice president. That's still the same for what we saw under President Biden. In fact, in some cases, it's even gone down a little bit.

What has changed, though, Pamela, is the use of military flights. And that began last Thursday here to Guatemala, and it's continuing with another military aircraft that will bring another round of deportees here to this airport in about two or three hours from now.

BROWN: Yes, I think that that's really important context, that there hasn't been some big change, other than, as you point out, the use of military flights.

Again, we will see how this plays out over the next weeks and months and so forth in the Trump administration.

David Culver, thank you so much.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:53:10]

BROWN: As President Trump begins his second week in office, he is starting to shift the country in a different direction in key areas.

And I know it's a lot to keep up with, so we want to come to you with sort of a summary, a sampling of some of what he has done so far.

He dismantled diversity efforts in the federal government. He froze many health agency reports and online posts, pardoned January 6 rioters. And our Donie O'Sullivan reported that, actually, they got rid of the database to even go to see who was charged in that case.

He fired inspectors general for more than a dozen federal agencies, floated eliminating FEMA. He stripped security protection from people Trump considers political enemies, reversed President Biden's efforts to lower the cost of prescription drugs. He mandated that the federal government only recognize two sexes, and kicked off the process to end birthright citizenship, which, of course, is going to be -- has all kinds of legal challenges.

CNN's Tom Foreman joins us now.

So, Tom, beyond the headline,what is the real impact of some of these orders during Trump's whirlwind first week?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Some of them, virtually nothing. They're sort of a dog and pony show, but then others could have a real impact.

Let's look at this question of tariffs to begin with. He said that he was going to do this giant crackdown on tariffs day one, day number one. We're a week into it. They have not happened. He has not done that. He threatened a 25 percent tariff on all imports from Canada and Mexico, 10 percent tariff on Chinese products. Now he's kind of pushing it down to maybe February 1.

Who knows what's going to happen? Part of the problem here is what economic experts said throughout the campaign and said throughout the fall even while he kept promising. This could raise prices for Americans. Is that what's motivating him now to not do it? We don't know, but he's not fulfilling that promise because that could be a very real impact.

[11:55:01]

The pardons that you just mentioned a moment ago, this broad clemency to all the January 6 rioters out there, well, the most obvious problem out there for many people who study extremist movements is, this clemency for groups like the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys, these far right extremist groups, is that it fuels the extremist threat by basically saying, you can do this kind of stuff and there will be no punishment.

And, on health, this freezing of health agency reports, some people think this could leave health care professionals unable to see a threat coming, that they wouldn't know it was coming because the information's not out.

Just as importantly, Pam, as this sort of crackdown on information is filtered through a political sieve out there, how are we, how is the public to know what the truth is and just what is politically expedient, Pam?

BROWN: That's a very valid question, an important one to ask.

Tom Foreman, thank you so much. And thank you for joining us. I'm Pamela Brown. This hour flew by with

all the news. You can follow me on Instagram, TikTok, and X at @PamelaBrownCNN.

Stay with us. "INSIDE POLITICS" with my friend Dana Bash starts after a short break.