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DOJ Fires Officials who Prosecuted Trump; DeepSeek Sent U.S. Tech Stocks to a Plunge. Palestinians Returned Home to Northern Gaza After Being Displaced for Months; Google to Rename Gulf of America, Mount Denali in Their Maps. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired January 28, 2025 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[03:00:00]

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LYNDA KINKADE, CNN CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us in the U.S. and around the world and to everyone streaming us on CNN Max. I'm Lynda Kinkade.

Just ahead, purging the U.S. Justice Department. We'll have the latest from Washington as officials who prosecuted Donald Trump are fired.

And China's cheap A.I. chatbot shocks the tech world, upending global markets.

Plus, tens of thousands of Palestinians flood back into northern Gaza, where they face the daunting task of trying to rebuild amidst the rubble.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Lynda Kinkade

KINKADE: A massive shakeup at the Department of Justice, the acting U.S. Attorney General has begun firing staffers he says the DOJ can't trust to carry out the agenda of President Trump. The news came in a memo Monday saying, quote, "you're being removed from your position at the Department of Justice effective immediately."

It was sent to specific individuals who were deemed to have played a significant role in the criminal investigations of Donald Trump.

Also Monday, the interim U.S. Attorney General in Washington launched what he called a special project investigating prosecutors who tried and failed to charge some of the January 6 rioters with obstruction. Speaking at an event Monday, President Trump made light of his criminal cases.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I was investigated more than any human being in history. Scarface was not investigated as much as your president was investigated. And it turned out to be a positive thing for me. Can you believe it? It turned out to be -- we got a lot of votes. I think we got a lot of

votes because they saw it was weaponization. It was a fight against a political opponent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: CNN's Paula Reid has more on the memo issued at the Justice Department.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: President Trump has repeatedly vowed retribution against those who investigated him. And these firings are one of the first moves he is making.

In a letter, the acting attorney general told these employees, "you played a significant role in prosecuting President Trump. The proper functioning of government critically depends on the trust superior officials place in their subordinates. Given your significant role in prosecuting the president, I do not believe that the leadership of the department can trust you to assist in implementing the president's agenda faithfully."

Now, we're told this move impacts more than a dozen employees. But of course, Jack Smith, his top prosecutors, they had already left before Trump returned to office. This is mostly focused on career officials who are supposed to be protected from political retaliation.

And that wasn't the only news Monday out of the Justice Department. They also took the first concrete steps to investigate prosecutors who worked on the January 6th cases.

Now, the interim U.S. attorney, Ed Martin, has launched an investigation into prosecutors who charged January 6th rioters with obstruction of justice. This is a charge that was used in a few hundred cases.

But the Supreme Court ruled last year that it was improper to use that charge, saying "obstruction of justice can only be used in the context of interfering with a congressional investigation, not for actions related to January 6th."

So now the Trump Justice Department is seeking all documents, emails and notes related to those decisions to charge folks with obstruction of justice.

Now, one senior administration official calls this quote, "a fact finding mission," saying the prior office screwed up by filing hundreds of cases that ended up getting thrown out by the Supreme Court.

And it is worth getting to the bottom of poor decision making. But there are also concerns that this is all part of an effort to undermine the legitimacy of the entire January 6th prosecution.

Paula Reid, CNN, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Well, the Colombian plane transporting 110 of its citizens from the U.S. is due to arrive home today. Colombia's president says deported passengers will travel home in dignity without handcuffs and chains.

It comes after a major diplomatic spat between Colombia's government and the Trump administration over the White House's treatment of undocumented migrants. President Trump is claiming victory, saying his threats of massive tariffs, visa holdups and other diplomatic retribution gives the United States the upper hand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Respect it again. Isn't that nice? After years of laughing at us like we're stupid people. And as you saw yesterday, we've made it clear to every country that they will be taken back.

Our people that we're sending out, the criminals, the illegal aliens coming from their countries, we're taking them back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[03:05:09]

KINKADE: The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Office says nearly 1,200 people were arrested Monday as part of Donald Trump's crackdown on illegal immigration. The raids were also being orchestrated for T.V. and social media, with agents told to show up camera ready, wearing full tactical gear.

If they're meant to stoke fear, it's working. The Trump administration says federal authorities can now arrest for undocumented migrants in churches, schools. And it is terrifying some parents about sending their children to school.

Well, so far, Mexico and Guatemala say there has not been an increase in the amount of people sent back, but Guatemala is welcoming those who have returned.

CNN's David Culver reports.

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DAVID CULVER, CNN SR. U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Stepping off a commercial charter and onto Guatemala City's military tarmac, 124 migrants deported for illegally entering the U.S. now back home.

They process past officials, including the country's vice president, and into a reception hall. Cookies and coffee await.

One by one, they're called up to be officially documented. Now, that's a change from their status in the U.S.

CULVER: She lived 10 years in the U.S. in Alabama. She did roofing, construction and car repair while in the U.S.

CULVER (voice-over): Here we meet Sara Totpotos. At 43, she says she carries a criminal record related to child endangerment.

CULVER: She was shopping at Walmart with her grandson and she said he didn't have a car seat and she was pulled over as she was leaving the Walmart by a police officer in Alabama.

CULVER (voice-over): She went to jail for two months and was detained for five more months, she says, by immigration officials in Louisiana before being sent back here.

She's actually grateful, thanking God for being back.

CULVER: Do you want to go back to the U.S.?

SARA TOTPOTOS, DEPORTED FROM THE U.S. TO GUATEMALA: No, yeah, no.

CULVER: No.

TOTPOTOS: No.

CULVER (voice-over): Sara, seemingly uncomfortable, though, speaking with us in what she's wearing.

She's eager to get to her bag, which sits in a pile of plastic sacks and stapled shut. And as she heads into the bathroom to change, we meet Fidel Ambrocio.

CULVER: So how many years altogether did you live in the U.S.?

FIDEL AMBROCIO, DEPORTED FROM THE U.S. TO GUATEMALA: Almost 19 years.

CULVER: Nineteen years?

CULVER: Yes.

AMBROCIO: And I'm scared because I was not informed. They say they have to, you know, go with the criminal. But we're not a criminal, you know.

CULVER: But you have a trespassing conviction?

AMBROCIO: Yes.

CULVER: Are you going to try to stay here or do you think you'll go back?

AMBROCIO: I have to go back. For sure.

CULVER: You'll find a way back?

AMBROCIO: Yes.

CULVER (voice-over): While Fidel walks freely here, others are pulled aside by Guatemalan police as soon as they arrive, accused of crimes not only in the U.S., but also here in their homeland. They require a lot of resources so as to reintegrate the returnees.

Guatemala's vice president tells me it's about the same number, though, that have been arriving in recent years under President Biden. Though she says the use of U.S. military planes, which Guatemala is permitting, is new under President Trump.

Back in the reception hall, we almost don't recognize Sara. She's changed into her indigenous wardrobe and feels more at home, now ready to step out and reunite with her daughter.

CULVER: Obviously, there was a lot of emotion in that moment between Sara and her daughter, and I asked both of them if they have any interest for Sara to go back to the U.S. or for her daughter to go for the first time. And they were adamant they do not want to go.

And it seems that in many ways tends to echo what the Trump administration is hoping to put out there in their messaging from these deportations, in part, and that is a deterrence factor to keep people from wanting to go into the U.S. in the first place.

However, then you meet others like Fidel, who said it doesn't stop him. He's going to try as many times as possible to get back to the U.S., be it legal or illegal.

David Culver, CNN, Guatemala City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Joining me now is Sonny Subia, Colorado director for the League of United Latin American Citizens; and Sophia Zaman, the executive director of Raise the Floor Alliance. Good to have you both with us.

SONNY SUBIA, COLORADO DIRECTOR, LEAGUE OF UNITED LATIN AMERICAN CITIZENS: Thank you for having me.

SOPHIA ZAMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, RAISE THE FLOOR ALLIANCE: Thanks for having us.

KINKADE: I'll start with you first, Sonny. So multiple federal agencies are now conducting these raids. You are seeing migrant workers. You're talking with them. What are they telling you?

SUBIA: Just that they're scared. And with some of the raids that they've conducted over the weekend, a lot of our migrants and our workers, our folks are afraid and they don't know what's coming around the corner.

[03:10:08]

KINKADE: And Sophia, your organization is one of four that is suing the federal government over these weekend raids. Can you tell us on what grounds?

ZAMAN: Sure. So Raise the Floor Alliance is a coalition of worker centers that builds power with workers, including immigrant workers who are highly concentrated in Chicago's low wage industries and highly exploited. Our organizations, along with the other organizational plaintiffs, have long fought to make Chicago a welcoming city.

And now we join this lawsuit because we believe that we're being targeted by the Trump administration for our political advocacy and our views, which is unconstitutional and a violation of our First Amendment rights.

You know, President Trump made his disdain for the sanctuary movement very clear when he was campaigning for president. And now he's using that arbitrary mass immigration enforcement to sow fear among our communities.

And Sonny, those who are conducting the raids have reportedly been told by the Trump administration to ramp up the deportation numbers. What can you tell us about the daily quotas and the risk of having a higher quota?

SUBIA: We've heard of the quotas that they're starting to set here in Colorado and across the country. And LULAC, which is the largest Latino organization in the country and the oldest.

We have thousands of councils across the country that are sharing the same concern with our local officials about the quota system and what it's going to do and the populations that it's going to affect. You know, LULAC, of course, is for deporting any violent and criminals from the United States.

But what we're afraid of is that they capture some legal residents in those raids that they're conducting across Colorado and across the country. So we're here to make sure that their civil rights aren't infringed on and that they are educated and that they understand that they do have rights even after they are arrested or detained.

KINKADE: What are those rights? So are you talking about rights for undocumented migrants?

SUBIA: Yeah, you know, they have the right to a hearing. Some of them that are legal residents, we've been telling them to make sure that you have all your documentation in place.

And if you ever are swept up in a deportation raid, to make sure that you have the documentation to prove that you're here legally, that you're a law abiding citizen and that you're abiding by all the laws of the land.

KINKADE: We heard earlier tonight from Trump's border czar, who basically said if you're in the country without documentation, leave or risk deportation. What do you make of that sort of, I guess, that commentary? And have you given that advice to anyone?

ZAMAN: So Raise the Floor Alliance and in the sanctuary movement are our belief is that all people are should be treated with respect, with dignity, and that harsh, inhumane immigration enforcement is not the answer to what our city or what our communities need. I would echo that everyone deserves due process. And I think that this

administration's focus on using the most egregious examples to dehumanize immigrants and to justify their actions, the intent is to have a chilling effect on our organizing.

But, you know, again, this vilification is not reflective of the real harms that are happening to our community. And, you know, we filed this lawsuit and we're continuing to organize because we want to keep our families together and we won't be intimidated. So we'll continue to ensure that Chicago is safe and welcoming for all.

KINKADE: And final word to you, Sonny, what do you make of that statement from Trump's border czar basically saying, if you don't have documentation, leave?

SUBIA: He's just trying to raise fear in the community so they will self-deport. A lot of them are here. They they're raising their families. Their kids are in school.

They're hardworking taxpayers and they are a benefit to our communities. You know, with our construction, I live in north of Denver. It's one of the fastest growing regions in the United States as far as growth.

[03:15:07]

And what we're seeing is that a lot of the construction, agriculture, farming, dairy, they're seeing their employees not showing up for work. The one thing that concerns me a little bit is parents are afraid to take their kids to school in fear of being picked up by ICE.

I know the border czar said that and churches now are on the table with to do raids. And so our community is listening to this and they're becoming very frightened and they're just needing information. And that's what LULAC is doing.

We're going to be working with all of our councils to start telling our immigrant community and sharing them and ensure that they know what their rights are as citizens.

KINKADE: Sonny Subia, appreciate your time, especially given it is your birthday. Very happy birthday to you. And thank you for your time. Thank you also, Sophia Zaman.

SUBIA: Thank you.

ZAMAN: Thank you.

KINKADE: Well, still to come, U.S. tech stocks tumble on Monday after an emerging Chinese startup presented its new A.I. model. Coming up, how DeepSeek is achieving top tier performance with fewer resources.

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[03:20:00]

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KINKADE: A Chinese startup has shocked U.S. markets by threatening America's lead in artificial intelligence. The Nasdaq finished sharply lower on Monday, down over 3 percent.

Tech giants like Microsoft, Google and Meta were hit hard during the selloff. But chipmaker Nvidia suffered the worst drop, down nearly $600 billion in market value. It's the largest single day loss in stock market history.

The Chinese company DeepSeek caught the tech world by surprise after showcasing recent advancements in its artificial intelligence. R1 is replicating the familiar features of ChatGPT-style interface, but operating at just a fraction of the cost.

With China's restricted access to newer chip technology, this high performance model is also able to run on underpowered hardware. President Trump claims innovation should be a wakeup call for Silicon Valley.

Well, A.I. analysts are skeptical, though, of the claims DeepSeek has made surrounding this revolutionary A.I. model. CNN's Kristie Lu Stout has the latest from Hong Kong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: DeepSeek and its A.I. claim has spooked markets and stunned the world. But is it for real?

Now, last week, DeepSeek unveiled a generative A.I. model called R1. It's much like ChatGPT, except the company said that it can operate at a fraction of the cost.

Now, according to DeepSeek, it spent only $5.6 million on computing power for the base model. And compare that with U.S. companies like Meta, like OpenAI or Google that have paid hundreds of millions or billions of dollars on their A.I. technology.

Now, DeepSeek's announcement rattled America's tech sector. The tech- heavy Nasdaq lost more than 3 percent. Shares at Nvidia fell nearly 17 percent. But analysts are questioning DeepSeek's claims.

In fact, according to strategy risks founder Isaac Stonefish, he says this quote, "how much did it actually cost DeepSeek to train its model? We won't know that until someone has properly audited its claims and the research paper it released."

Now meanwhile, we've been learning more about the founder of DeepSeek. Now, Liang Wenfeng recently spoke at a symposium hosted by the Chinese premier, Li Qian.

And according to Chinese state run media, his lab is based in Zhejiang province. It reportedly has a small team of fewer than 10 people. And Liang believes China must shift. It must shift from imitation to originality to build its own high tech ecosystem. In fact, this is what he says. He says this quote, "we often say there is a one or two year gap between China and the U.S., but the real gap is between originality and imitation. If this doesn't change, China will always be a follower." Unquote.

Liang adds that China cannot be in a follower position forever.

Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Well, returning home and in many cases returning to ruins, an emotional journey for hundreds of thousands of Palestinians allowed to head back to northern Gaza.

Also ahead, Elon Musk says Germany should move beyond the guilt of its past. More from his surprise appearance at a far-right rally, next.

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[03:25:00]

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KINKADE: Israel says eight of the remaining Hamas hostages set to be released during the first phase of the ceasefire agreement are dead. We're told the Israeli government was notified of their status after receiving a list from the militant group. Hamas has not revealed how they died.

Israel says the rest of the 33 hostages expected to be freed are alive. The families of all hostages set to be released were contacted by Israeli authorities on Sunday according to the Hostage and Missing Families Forum.

After a 48-hour delay, hundreds of thousands of displaced Palestinians were finally allowed to return to northern Gaza on Monday. Our Jeremy Diamond reports on the people making the bittersweet journey back home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The masses of people trekking up Gaza's coastal road are not being forced to flee, they are returning home.

[03:30:00]

The Palestinian people are going back to their homes, this man shouts, announcing his joy to anyone who will listen. It's a great happiness, we feel like we can fly.

After being displaced for months on end, tens of thousands of Palestinians are finally returning to northern Gaza, shielded by the guarantees of a six-week ceasefire.

This river of humanity flows for miles and miles, underscoring the magnitude of the last 15 months of war.

For many, like Ayad al-Masri, their journey began in southern Gaza, taking down their tents they hope forever.

I'm taking these four bags and going back to my house, Ayad says. I don't know if it is still standing or not, but I'm going back to Beit Hanoun.

People quickly crowd around the few buses heading north, babies and belongings hoisted with urgency.

Others carry what they can, taking their chances on foot. Trudging through this uneven coastal road, young and old alike are determined to push past fatigue and return home.

For the first of many, that moment came shortly after 7 a.m., crossing an abandoned Israeli checkpoint where mass Hamas militants now stand watch.

Israel agreed to open the road to northern Gaza only after resolving a two-day dispute with Hamas over the fate of an Israeli hostage, Arbel Yehud. Hamas now set to release her alongside the captive Israeli soldier Agam Berger, and a third hostage on Thursday.

Back in Gaza, this is what most are returning to. Bombed-out buildings and heaps of rubble now line the streets. Even amid the destruction, there is joy, as family members separated by war reunite.

Thank God, Muattaz says, as he kisses his mother and embraces his daughter, he hasn't seen them in 10 months.

Amid the reunions, there are also tears, as people set foot on the land they call home once again.

I'm crying right now out of happiness, this man says. I don't want anything except to enter my homeland.

The enormity of the destruction in Gaza prompting President Trump to call for moving Palestinians out of Gaza.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'd like Egypt to take people, and I'd like Georgia to take people. I can -- you're talking about probably a million and a half people. And we just clean out that whole thing.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Among those who camped out for days near the checkpoint to northern Gaza, waiting for it to open, Trump's idea is quickly rejected.

We say to Trump, no, and a million and one nos, we will stay here. We will stay in Gaza, he says, even if it is a pile of rubble.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: Well, the world is marking the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. Survivors and family members gathered on Monday to remember the atrocities of the notorious Nazi concentration camp. Approximately 1.1 million people were murdered there between 1940 and 1945.

World leaders also attended the ceremony. They didn't make speeches, but rather listened to those who had suffered and witnessed the horrors. Survivors shared their stories and warned of the dangers of rising anti-Semitism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEON WEINTRAUB, AUSCHWITZ SURVIVOR (through translator): It grieves me deeply to see in many European countries, but also in Poland, Nazi- style uniforms and slogans openly paraded at marches. It grieves me to see this happening without any consequences. These people proclaim themselves as nationalists, but at the same time, they proclaim the hateful ideology of German Nazis.

This was the ideology that murdered millions who were considered subhuman under the sign of the swastika.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: Well the chairman of the World Holocaust Remembrance Center has accused Elon Musk of insulting victims of Nazism. The tech billionaire said Germany needed to move beyond the guilt of the past.

Musk made the comments at the election campaign launch for Germany's far-right AfD party. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen was there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Elon Musk larger than life. The virtual guest of honor at the far- right Alternative for Germany's election campaign kickoff event.

Some AfD members have been accused of using Nazi rhetoric. Musk calling for more German nationalism.

ELON MUSK, DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: I think there's like frankly too much of a focus on past guilt and we need to move beyond that. It's okay to be proud to be German and not to lose that in some sort of multiculturalism that dilutes everything.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Music to the ears of AfD supporters.

[03:35:01]

MUSK: You know, go, go, go.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Musk speaking even before the party's main candidate, Alice Weidel, who makes no secret on immigration the AfD sees eye-to-eye with the Trump administration.

Weidel telling me just how important Musk's support is. ALICE WEIDEL, AFD CANDIDATE FOR GERMAN CHANCELLOR: I'm incredibly

happy that he could make it and I wish him and Donald Trump, J.D. Vance all the best and God's blessings.

PLEITGEN: What would you do if you became the chancellor immediately?

WEIDEL: Well, closing our borders, controlling them and then sending out all the illegals and also these people who do crimes. They have to leave our country.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Germany has taken in millions of refugees in recent years, mostly from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.

But after a string of high-profile crimes like a recent stabbing by an Afghan asylum seeker, killing a two-year-old boy and a man trying to stop the rampage, many Germans have soured to the migrant influx.

Musk inserting himself into German politics calling German Chancellor Olaf Scholz an incompetent fool and saying only the AfD can save Germany.

PLEITGEN: While Germany's established parties have said they will not cooperate with the AfD, the party is currently riding a high in the polls and could soon be one of the strongest political forces in Germany.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Outside the venue, Musk also a lightning rod for those protesting against the AfD.

I understand what happened in 1933, this man says, where many people didn't want to see it. And I don't want my children to ask me, Dad, where were you when the Nazis started again?

The AfD rejects accusations of being right-wing extremists and the party leaders say, like it or not, the AfD is on the rise with Elon Musk fueling their assent.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Halle an der Saale, Germany.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Crowds of people protested into the night on Monday in Serbia, blocking access to key roads in the capital, Belgrade. Protesters are angry over how the president has handled the fallout from a railway station roof collapse that killed 15 people back in November.

Demonstrators alleged government corruption and nepotism resulted in shoddy construction that led to the concrete awning caving in. They want swift action against those responsible. The government has denied blame for the deaths.

South Korean investigators have reported their initial findings on the fatal Jeju plane crash. Officials are focusing on the role of a bird strike. The report says avian blood and feathers were found on each engine. But authorities are also examining concerns over the so-called localizer landing guidance structure near the airport's runway. The crash was the deadliest on South Korean soil. 179 people were killed on December 29.

The Trump administration is disrupting American foreign aid efforts yet again. We will talk about the global repercussions with a former senior official from the main U.S. aid agency.

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[03:40:00]

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KINKADE: Staff at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have been ordered to stop communicating with the World Health Organization. That's according to a memo sent on Sunday. Staff were told to halt all engagement with the organization and, quote, "await further guidance."

The memo says the directive was made in line with President Trump's executive order withdrawing the U.S. from the WHO last week.

The move deals a significant blow to global health efforts. The U.S. is one of the largest countries to fund the organization that's tasked with coordinating the international response to health emergencies.

In another stunning move, the Trump administration has placed dozens of senior career officials at the U.S. Agency for International Development on immediate leave. Sources say around 60 officials were notified Monday. There seems to be a particular focus on USAID's general counsel's office.

An internal statement from the agency official has tied the action to the same executive order that led the U.S. State Department to freeze almost all foreign aid just days ago. According to the statement, actions designed to, quote, "circumvent the executive order have been identified and need to be analyzed."

Jeremy Konyndyk is the president of Refugees International and a former senior official with USAID. He joins us now from Washington. Good to have you with us.

JEREMY KONYNDYK, PRESIDENT, REFUGEES INTERNATIONAL AND FORMER SR. OFFICIAL, USAID: My pleasure.

KINKADE: So Donald Trump's State Department has sanctioned a 90-day freeze on all new funding for nearly all American foreign aid pending a review. What's your reaction?

KONYNDYK: Well, this is going to do a lot of damage both to America's reputation and America's leadership overseas, and as importantly, if not more importantly, to the many people who have for decades been able to rely on U.S. support and U.S. assistance to make their lives better. You know, this will shut, this is shutting AIDS programs that supply

drugs to HIV survivors to keep their infections at bay. It is feeding people in refugee camps. All of that is being shut down now.

And a lot of hard security assistance as well that serves U.S. interests in other ways. So it is just hugely damaging and it makes America look very weak and unreliable on the global stage.

[03:45:05]

KINKADE: And of course right now that aid has been used in places like Gaza, like Ukraine, Sudan. What impact will it have in those areas?

KONYNDYK: So in a place like Sudan, there is a famine actively underway. This is pulling back the very humanitarian relief that is combating that famine.

It is pulling back things like water assistance, nutrition assistance. Food aid is exempted, but anyone who knows the first thing about nutrition knows that you don't digest food very well without having clean water to drink.

So, you know, it is completely nonsensical. It is also going to do things like end vaccination programs. So the sort of programs that prevent outbreaks of disease in humanitarian settings as well as just routine things like measles and polio vaccination for infants around the world.

All of that now is in the process of being halted.

KINKADE: And I've heard that dozens of senior officials in the top USAID and development agency reportedly placed on leave Monday. An investigation is underway after they allegedly tried to go around President Trump's orders.

Several hundred contractors were also reportedly laid off. What are you hearing about that?

KONYNDYK: This is very ominous. First, I don't buy for a moment the line that they were circumventing orders from President Trump. You know, whatever the personal views of USAID officials, many of whom I have worked with, they are civil servants.

They will follow the policy guidance they've been given. In this case, the policy guidance they've been given is a complete mess. It is unclear.

You know, they have no clear guidance on how they're supposed to be making some of the determinations in this review. There's been no guidance given. I don't know how you circumvent guidance you haven't received.

So it reads to me not like an effort to actually pursue a good-faith review, but rather to intimidate career professionals at USAID into getting out of the way of some of the questionably lawful things that the Trump administration may seek to do. I think one of the things that's very ominous here is that reportedly

many of the people who have been pushed out in this quasi-purge worked in the general counsel's office, providing legal guidance to the organization.

KINKADE: Is it likely that aid organizations will be left with no choice but to also lay-off staff?

KONYNDYK: That's already happening. Many of the major U.S. partners, and I won't name them here because they have been also instructed by the U.S. government not to talk publicly, but many name-brand organizations are now on the cusp of having to lay-off aid staff in critical relief responses and other programs around the world because they now have no certainty that even the money that they have been lawfully granted by the U.S. government will remain available.

KINKADE: And of course, you oversaw USAID's multibillion-dollar COVID- 19 assistance portfolio during the pandemic. If the U.S. moves away from delivering aid, what sort of signal does that send to the world going forward?

KONYNDYK: It just shows extraordinary unreliability. To the extent that the president believes that the U.S. is in a geopolitical competition with China, this amounts to a form of unilateral disarmament of U.S. soft power around the world.

It just makes no sense. It is harmful, it is callous, it is cruel, and it is also deeply, deeply counterproductive strategically.

KINKADE: Jeremy Konyndyk, we appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

KONYNDYK: Thank you.

KINKADE: Intense fighting is ongoing in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where a rebel offensive is dividing officials in both the DLC and Rwanda. Coming up, why hope still remains for diplomatic resolution.

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[03:50:00]

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KINKADE: As days of intense fighting continue in the city of Goma in the Democratic Republic of Congo, officials are accusing neighboring Rwanda of sending troops to support the M23 rebels. Now, Kenya says the presidents of Rwanda and the DRC have agreed to meet Wednesday to discuss the recent violence.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz reports.

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SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Rwanda. This is what it sounded like in Goma, heavy gunfire ringing out as soldiers from the National Army tried to fight off an assault by M23 rebels.

They seem to have failed, and the Rwanda-backed M23 group claims it seized control of the eastern Congo's largest city after driving out government troops, forcing thousands to flee, families unsure of where to find safety.

In the chaos, inmates broke free from a local prison. Fighting between the Rwanda-backed rebels and the Army of the Democratic Republic of Congo had ramped up significantly in recent days.

The U.N. warning that the violence has already displaced some 400,000 people in the region since the beginning of the year. Some have been forced out of their homes more than once.

FLORENCE MAPENDANO, INTERNALLY DISPLACED PERSON (through translator): We fled the war, gunshots and bombs, and now we are here. We don't know where to flee to. We have no shelter or place to spend the night. We're outside, uncertain of our fate.

ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): During a lightning offensive, the M23 group grabbed territory, then set its eyes on Goma. The city, which sits on the border with Rwanda, was last held by the M23 group in 2012 during similar clashes between rebels and government forces.

At least a dozen peacekeepers from the U.N. and other international forces were killed in recent fighting. In response, the U.N. says it is temporarily relocating non-essential staff out of the area.

Hospitals are overwhelmed, and emergency tents have been set up to treat the wounded, some who narrowly escaped death.

JEANNETTE NEEMA MATONDO, WOUNDED IN FIGHTING (through translator): We packed our bags, took our children and left. When we reached the checkpoint, a bomb fell on us. I was thrown backward in the direction I had come from. I still had my baby on my back, and my belongings were next to me. But everyone around me was dead.

ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): International groups warn that the violence could escalate into a wider regional conflict. The DRC recently severed diplomatic ties with Rwanda, which it says funds and supports M23 rebels.

Rwanda denies this, but says it does have troops and missile systems in the eastern DRC for its own security.

The U.N. has condemned the M23's advance with the support of Rwandan forces, and is urging the group to withdraw. A plea for calm so far unheard, as thousands caught in the crossfire desperately seek safety and relief.

Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.

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KINKADE: Well the European Union will not be negotiating the sovereignty of Greenland. That's according to the E.U.'s foreign policy chief, who spoke to reporters Monday about President Trump's recent comments about wanting to take control of the Arctic island from Denmark for security purposes.

The E.U. official also says Europe needs to close ranks, as the U.S. takes a more transactional approach in its foreign relations. Denmark will now spend more than $2 billion to step up its military presence in the Arctic, as a result of President Trump's remarks.

[03:55:06]

The Danish defense ministry says the money will go towards military training, as well as new Arctic naval vessels and long-range drones to improve surveillance and maintain sovereignty in the region.

He may be facing resistance from Denmark and other countries in Europe, but Google is giving U.S. President Donald Trump what he wants. The company posted on X that Google Maps would change the Gulf of Mexico into the Gulf of America, and will list Denali as Mount McKinley.

The company defended its actions, saying it has long-standing practice of listing names which have been updated in official government sources. President Trump unilaterally declared the name changes in one of his executive actions on Inauguration Day.

Finally, not all A.I. startups are as successful as DeepSeek. A French language artificial intelligence chatbox named Lucie has been taken offline after giving bonkers answers to some basic questions.

Lucie said there is such a thing as cows' eggs. Quote, "edible eggs produced by cows are healthy and nutritious food." Of course, there is no such thing.

Lucie incorrectly said the answer to this mathematical equation was 17 instead of 25. And the chatbot said, quote, "the square root of goat is one."

Lucie's developers say that it remains an academic research project in its early stages and that it was released prematurely.

Thanks so much for your company. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Have a wonderful day. "CNN Newsroom" continues with Max Foster and Christina Macfarlane after a short break. Stay with us. You're watching CNN.

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