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CNN International: FAA Indefinitely Closes Helicopter Routes Near Reagan National Airport; Investigation Into Deadly Collision Intensifying; Remembering The Victims Of Deadly Plane-Helicopter Crash. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired January 31, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[11:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAHEL SOLOMON, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": Good morning or good evening, depending on where you're watching. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York.

And ahead on CNN Newsroom, searching for answers, investigators recover data recorders from the wreckage of Wednesday's disaster. Straight ahead, CNN has exclusive new footage showing the moment of collision. Plus, President Donald Trump suggesting that diversity may somehow be linked to the collision. Ahead, we'll speak to the Chairman of the Board of Directors for the Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals. And Palestinians returning to northern Gaza, fearful of what they'll find there. Many now saying that the brutal reality is even worse than they imagined.

We begin this hour with new details and new videos surrounding the deadly collision between an American Airlines jet and a U.S. Army helicopter. These were the pictures of the recovery scene right now. CNN exclusively obtained two new videos offering a more direct angle and vantage point of the midair tragedy, and a warning that the videos are difficult to see, as we learn more about the 67 lives lost. New York Times reporting that the helicopter may have been flying outside of its approved flight path and higher than it should have been.

Now, here is the first video. The bright light you see at the top is the plane, as it approaches the runway. The helicopter then flies in from the left and collides with the plane. You see it here. Both aircrafts then immediately crashed down into the Potomac River. Now, the second video, this appears to be surveillance video from the airport, and it shows the helicopter moving along the river with the plane on its final approach, then the collision, and the explosion.

President Trump today, once again weighing in on the possible cause of the crash, posting that, quote, "The Black Hawk helicopter was flying too high", adding "that's not really too complicated to understand, is it???"

Now, earlier, my colleague Kate Bolduan spoke with Todd Inman of the NTSB, who says that it's much too early to speculate on the cause of the collision. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD INMAN, MEMBER, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: We hope to have the preliminary report out in 30 days. The overall investigation will probably take a year, but that's because it has to be accurate. We have some of the best people in the world doing this. We've done over 100,000 aviation investigations. We're not going to put something out quick just so we can end some speculation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: All right. Let's get to CNN's Arlette Saenz, who joins us now with more details. Arlette, as we just heard there, 30 days for the preliminary investigation. We're one day into it. What's the latest with the investigation?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, investigators are really working around the clock at this moment, trying to get some more answers to determine why exactly that Army helicopter collided with that American Airlines passenger jet. Now, there is significant moves being announced today by the Federal Aviation Administration, which has said that they are shutting down that low-altitude helicopter corridor that was used by that helicopter on Wednesday night.

This is a route, a specialized route, known as Route Four, and it is used by local law enforcement, military, medevac and other local types of helicopters. It's located just east of Reagan National Airport. If you're familiar with the Washington, D.C. area, this is north of the Wilson Bridge, which connects Virginia and Washington, D.C. So, they are saying, the FAA, that they are shutting down that corridor for an indefinite period of time. They are also shutting down another corridor known as Route One. That one is located just south of the Key Bridge, which connects Georgetown with Rosslyn, Virginia. It does come as officials are not trying -- not only trying to determine why exactly this collision happened, but also prevent one from happening again.

Now, overnight, The New York Times reported that that Army helicopter was actually flying above 200 feet, which is the ceiling for how high those helicopters are supposed to be flying along that corridor. As you noted, President Trump himself said that the helicopter was flying way too high. It's unclear whether that's something that the investigation has actually determined or that is merely speculation on his part, but that is an answer that investigators will try to get in the coming days and weeks.

There is also the issue and concern about recent close calls relating to Reagan National Airport. This is one of the busiest runways, busiest airports in the country. And CNN has learned that actually the day before this collision occurred, there was actually another instance where a pilot with a passenger aircraft said that he had to abort his first landing due to seeing a helicopter that was near the flight path.

[11:05:00] There have also been, over the past three years, at least two other incidents where pilots have said that they had to take evasive actions due to helicopters being near the flight path. So, this is all something that investigators are going to look into, and federal officials and lawmakers will also be looking to, as they're trying to determine not just what caused this collision, but also how to prevent them from happening in the future.

SOLOMON: And Arlette, as they work to get answers to those questions, we are also learning more about those who died in this collision. Talk to us a little bit more about the recovery efforts and what's happening now.

SAENZ: Yeah. The recovery efforts were actually suspended overnight, but kicked back off this morning, as teams out there are still trying to find more of the individuals who have died in this plane collision. Now, sources have told us that they were planning to bring in a crane to not just clear out debris, but also try to help find more of those individuals. As of last night, CNN was told that at least 14 people were still missing. There are actually four people who were unaccounted for and believed to be pinned within the plane. They also -- while they recovered the one body of one soldier who was in that Army helicopter, the remains of the two others have yet to be recovered. So, this is something that those recovery teams will be working with around the clock.

It is raining in the Washington, D.C. area today. It's unclear whether the weather might have any impact on those recovery efforts, but officials have said that they are confident they will be able to recover the remains of each of these individuals, as these loved ones are now waiting to be reunited in some form with the loved ones they've lost in this collision.

SOLOMON: Yeah. Whatever closure that that may bring, for sure. Arlette Saenz, thank you, reporting live from Washington. Thanks.

All right. Let's now bring in CNN Aviation Analyst Miles O'Brien. Miles, great to have you. A lot of questions and frankly --

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Pleasure.

SOLOMON: -- blamed by some lawmakers already about the altitude that the Black Hawk was flying. I'm curious what your thoughts are when you see the video. And as we get these new angles about the collision and some possible explanations, I mean, what do you see when you see the video?

O'BRIEN: Well, when I look at this video, Rahel, what I see is, I don't see evasive action being taken by that helicopter. It's very difficult to see. So, I hesitate to draw a final conclusion on that, but it appears they were headed straight on this collision course, without any indication that there was a change in course or a deviation which would have taken them out of harm's way. So, you have to ask yourself what was going on in the cockpit of that Black Hawk helicopter. They had received a warning from air traffic control, from the tower at Reagan that there was this -- thinking that they were told to fly behind it, and they acknowledged that and said they did have the traffic in sight. So, there is some sort of disconnect there. Clearly they didn't have the traffic in sight. They flew right into it.

So, the cockpit voice recorder should shed some light. Was there some distraction (inaudible) and troubleshooting some of their system, having difficulty with their night vision goggles? There is any number of issues which could come up that would shed some light on why they were more than 200 feet above the ceiling for that corridor.

SOLOMON: Yeah. And Miles, as you bring up the black boxes, we know that the data recorder, the voice recorder for the passenger jet has been recovered. The recorder or the black box for the Black Hawk has not been recovered yet. How critical is that going to be to filling in the missing pieces here?

O'BRIEN: That's -- those are the critical pieces right there. So, hopefully, we'll see those before too long, and we'll be able to get a sense of what was happening on board that helicopter. I do think we should be careful. This seems to be headed in the direction of at least some level of blame pinned on that crew of that helicopter, but we don't know the full story yet, and it's important to recognize what has been tacitly admitted this morning in shutting down those helicopter corridors. They were an accident waiting to happen. That was very dangerous architecture for air traffic control.

I know of no other place in the United States where helicopters are allowed to pass 200 feet below an airliner on approach to an airport. That on a good day is a bad idea. And this proves that just a slight deviation, it's a system, an architecture that demanded perfection from human beings, and human beings will never give you perfection.

SOLOMON: Yeah. I want to circle back to the point you were sort of touching on there, this rush, it seems, to figure out what happened. And obviously the public is concerned. Of course, the families want answers, obviously.

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But, do you think this rush to find an answer is perhaps oversimplifying what could have happened here? And to that, I actually want to play for you a clip. This is from this morning on CNN. Miles, this is the lead spokesman for the investigation for the NTSB. Take a listen what he said about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INMAN: We call it kind of a Swiss cheese approach. There is multiple different layers where something goes through one small area, somewhere else to catch it. What's happened here is we most likely had a multitude of different issues, whether it be from understanding where a plane is, what an altitude is, what the speed is. Every one of those will be contributing factors to what is ultimately a horrible tragedy.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SOLOMON: And so, Miles, I mean, you've covered aviation for years,

decades even. I mean, how likely is it with crashes like this that there are ultimately multiple factors here?

O'BRIEN: You can take it to the bank, Rahel. It's always more than one thing, almost always. It's a chain of events. And if that Swiss cheese analogy is used a lot, stack slices of Swiss cheese, every now and then you get a hole all the way through, and the idea is that there are layers of redundancy. And occasionally, despite all those layers of redundancy, the accident happens. And you get the hole in the Swiss cheese idea, or the idea of a chain of events. And if you pull any one of the links out of the chain, the event doesn't happen. And we will see something like that.

The crew might have been distracted, but the architecture of the aerospace was inherently dangerous. So, that is a contributing factor as well. So, you have to -- was the controllers' warning a little too late? Did that factor into the fact that air traffic control is depleted on staffing? All of these things are going to come together, and this is why it takes so much time to come up with these NTSB reports, because they stick to the facts. They want to get it right, and they want to make aviation safer.

SOLOMON: Yeah. And to that point, I mean, we heard the NTSB say this morning, the preliminary report is expected within 30 days, but the ultimate report, for those reasons you just listed, Miles, will likely take years, because they want to get it right.

Miles O'Brien, appreciate you being here today. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: You're welcome.

SOLOMON: All right. And coming up for us right now, we're learning more about some of the lives lost in Wednesday's collision, two young figure skaters from Delaware, Angela Yang and Sean Kay, and their coach, Sasha Kirsanov, were on board the passenger plane. Kirsanov's wife says that Kay and Yang were an amazing team, the big future. U.S. figure skating community is devastated this morning after the loss of several promising talents.

CNN's Ed Lavandera shows us now how they're being remembered.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY KERRIGAN, FORMER FIGURE SKATER: We just wanted to be here with each other.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Six members of the Skating Club of Boston died Wednesday. Olympic medalist Nancy Kerrigan came together with the Boston skating community after the unimaginable tragedy.

KERRIGAN: Not sure how to process it.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Among the 67 victims of the deadly collision, two teenage figure skaters. Spencer Lane --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you please welcome to the ice, Jinna Han.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): -- and Jinna Han.

DOUG ZEGHIBE, CEO, SKATING CLUB OF BOSTON: We watched Jinna just grow up here from just a tiny little tyke into this amazingly mature 13- year-old, and we talk a lot about the athletes, but I think were going to miss their moms as much. Just really good people.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Their mothers were also on the plane, along with two coaches, Evgenia Shishkova and Vadim Naumov from Boston, seen here winning the 1994 World Figure Skating Paris Championship.

DR. TENLEY ALBRIGHT, SKATING CLUB OF BOSTON: I really can't believe that it happened because I picture them right here. The coaches always stood at that entrance. The skaters just flew all over the ice doing remarkable things, inspiring all of us.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): They were just a handful of a larger group of skaters on American Eagle Flight 5342.

ZEGHIBE: Fourteen skaters returning home from the national development camp at Wichita, Kansas, put on by U.S. figure skating, were lost in the plane crash.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): The Russian couples son, Maxim, returned home on an earlier flight, just medaled at the U.S. men's figure skating championship over the weekend. An eerie silence at the Wichita Ice Center, as the magnitude of the loss keeps growing. A mourner left a simple tribute on the bare ice days after an intense three-day training took place here.

JEFF WINCH, FRIEND OF VICTIM: They're some of my daughter's best friends.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): One of the crash victims was playing a video game with this man's 10-year-old daughter from the plane, just before the accident occurred.

ALEXIS WINCH, FRIEND OF VICTIM: She would always be there to talk to me.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Tragedy has struck this skating community before, in 1961, when the entire Boston Club's team was killed in a plane crash heading to the world championships.

[11:15:00]

Other victims in Wednesday's crash over the Potomac River were three U.S. service members aboard the Black Hawk helicopter and four crew members on the plane that left Wichita, including American Airlines flight attendant Ian Epstein, First Officer Samuel Lilley and Captain Jonathan Campos.

LILY WU, MAYOR OF WICHITA, KANSAS: This is a terrible tragedy that will unite those in Washington, D.C. and Wichita, Kansas, forever.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOLOMON: All right. And still to come, more hostage families in Israel could soon be reunited with their loved ones. Hamas has revealed the names of three more people expected to be freed tomorrow. Also, Palestinians returning to northern Gaza fearful of what they will find there. Many now saying that the brutal reality is even worse than they imagined.

We'll be right back.

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SOLOMON: Welcome back. Hamas has now given Israel the name of three more hostages that it will release tomorrow as part of a ceasefire agreement. All are men, one of them a dual Israeli American citizen. The family of Keith Siegel shared this emotional moment, his mother and daughter embracing when they heard that he was on the list. So far, 10 Israeli and five Thai hostages have been released since the truce took effect January 19th.

There were also tears of joy in the West Bank and Gaza after more than 100 Palestinian prisoners were freed by Israel on Thursday. Among them were 30 children, some held without charge, none convicted of a crime. Palestinians in Gaza are eagerly awaiting the reopening of the Rafah border crossing with Egypt for the first time in months. That is expected to happen tomorrow, and that will allow critical medical evacuations from Gaza to resume.

Meantime, U.S. President Donald Trump is trying to step up pressure on Egypt and Jordan to take in Palestinians from Gaza. This is part of his plan to, as he put it, clean Gaza out. Listen to what he told reporters yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, Egypt's President and the King of Jordan have both said that they won't take in displaced people from Gaza like you suggested. Is there anything you can do to make them do that, I mean, tariffs against those countries, for example?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They will do it. They will do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What makes you say that?

TRUMP: They are going to do it. OK? We do a lot for them, and they going to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: And the UN Agency for Palestinian refugees is carrying on with its humanitarian work across Gaza and the West Bank despite an Israeli ban that is now in effect. UNRWA says that it has not yet received word from Israel on implementing the ban. The law prevents UNWRA from operating inside Israel and Jerusalem, and bars Israeli authorities from having any communication with it. UNRWA's Director of Communications spoke earlier to CNN's Eleni Giokos. Juliette Touma says that the agency is committed to staying and delivering the help that people need, and warns that the ceasefire itself is at stake.

[11:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIETTE TOUMA, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, UNRWA: If UNRWA is banned from working in Gaza, from bringing in much needed supplies into Gaza, this will have a serious impact on the ceasefire, and which is already very fragile, as you know. So, the risks to the implementation of the ceasefire are very high. And so, this is exactly why we need to bring in suppliers, and we need to maintain the coordination with the Israeli authorities to coordinate bringing in supplies that also includes fuel, by the way, for people who need us most.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: And officials in Gaza say that half a million displaced Palestinians have now returned to the north after Israel opened a key corridor. One man told CNN that when he came back and saw the utter devastation, his heart was, quote, "ripped apart".

Our Paula Hancocks has more on the bittersweet journey home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The week started with such hope, around half a million displaced Palestinians heading home to northern Gaza by any way possible, once an hour's drive, now a journey that can take days. This woman says, my house is completely destroyed, but I am still returning. But, even knowing their home was gone, did not prepare some for the brutal reality of Israel's airstrikes.

If I knew it was like this, I wouldn't have come back, says Hamil Simara (ph). Imara (ph) says he lost around 50 members of his extended family in the first months of the war. His father and brother are still under this rubble. He was pulled out alive. He finds his father's medication, his mother's meeting. I waited so long for a daughter, he says. A week after she was born, she and her mother were gone. I don't even have a photograph of her. His other brother holds his daughter, who he says has shrapnel in her stomach and leg. He asks his nephew, Walid (ph), where is mama? Walid says his mother is in heaven, he says, with his aunts, uncles, grandfather, no one is left.

Memories of home are now of death and trauma, but until he finds and buries his family, Imara says he will not leave. My honest advice is, do not travel north, he says. There is no sign of life, no electricity, no water, no food. Fatima Abdel Hadi (ph) agrees. She traveled this week to what was left of her home in Beit Hanoun. She has now returned south to the school she has been sheltering in for almost a year and a half. We're so sad about the destruction we saw, she says. It used to be a city. It's now just rubble. We'll stay in this school until they make us leave.

This school, like many used as shelters, is run by UNRWA. Israel has now banned the UN agency, accusing it of ties to Hamas, an accusation UNRWA denies. Najuan (ph) stands in line for food coupons at the school-turned-shelter. She says, if it wasn't for UNRWA, we would not survive, from education to health to food. Israel says UNRWA's role in Gaza will be phased out and replaced by other UN agencies.

The celebrations of the ceasefire just days ago are now a distant memory, replaced by the bitter realization that all they knew has gone.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Abu Dhabi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOLOMON: All right. Let's get to some breaking news. German lawmakers have now rejected an opposition proposal to bring in legislation tightening controls on immigration. It comes after the conservative leader Friedrich Merz pushed a motion on immigration through Germany's parliament on Wednesday, with the backing of Germany's party of the far right, breaking a long-held political taboo.

Let's bring in CNN's Fred Pleitgen, who joins us now from the German parliament in Berlin. Fred, what's the latest there.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And it certainly looks like, Rahel, the involvement of the AfD is something that seems to tip the scales for some of the member of the parliament to then essentially vote against that motion. We just got the final results of that vote that happened in the second reading of that law, and it was 338 people voted for, 350 against it, which means that the motion has not passed. Now, obviously, it's a big blow for Friedrich Merz and certainly also for the Conservative Party, as it's vying to have the next chancellor here in Germany in the election that's coming up very soon.

[11:25:00]

But, it was very controversial debate that went down here in the German parliament, in the Bundestag, where both sides essentially said that they understand how important this issue is. It is one of the most important as the elections are coming up here very soon. But, at the same time, both of them essentially accusing each other with playing with the credibility of the German parliament and also of German democracy as well. Friedrich Merz said that in that proposal that he made, none of the measures were controversial. All of them were common sense measures, and that it really didn't matter whether or not the AfD was for them, that the other members of parliament should have gone along with his proposal.

However, those who were against him, which apparently now was not only people from the Social Democrats around Olaf Scholz and the Green Party, but it seems also maybe some within the conservative camp as well, said that, look, if you are going to push this through parliament with the help of the right wing AfD, then that is simply not something that a country like Germany, and the lawmakers of Germany, with its history, will be able to support, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Wow. Really interesting. OK. Fred Pleitgen on the ground for us there. Fred, thank you.

We're going to take a short break, and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLOMON: Welcome back. You're watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York, where we continue to follow the investigation into Wednesday's deadly midair collision in Washington. All 67 people on board the two aircraft are presumed dead. Sources say that the remains of 14 people are still unaccounted for. Federal officials have closed the airspace around Reagan National Airport to helicopter traffic. And the recovery crews in the Potomac, this is what they're dealing with. They're dealing with bad weather, mud, near-zero visibility. The black boxes from the passenger plane have been recovered, and investigators are hoping that they will shed more light on how the accident happened.

Now, safety at Reagan National Airport is also coming under scrutiny. Reports are coming out about several recent near-collisions, and The New York Times report says that sources believe that the Black Hawk helicopter may have been flying too high.

Joining us now from Reagan National Airport is CNN's Rene Marsh. Rene, what's the latest where you are?

RENE MARSH, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rahel, on this latest move from the FAA to shut down this airspace surrounding Reagan National Airport to those military helicopters, that is the first significant safety -- aviation safety move that they have made since this midair collision, and it is a significant one. That corridor is often traversed by military aircraft as well as law enforcement aircraft, and now that will no longer be possible.

[11:30:00]

This corridor only now open to commercial airliners. And on that New York Times reporting that this military helicopter, the Black Hawk, may have been flying at a higher altitude than it should have been. If confirmed, that deviation would essentially suggest that the pilot was not flying within the flight regulations of that time in that airspace in the moments leading up to this midair collision.

But, that information will be extracted from the helicopter's black box when investigators are able to retrieve it. They have not retrieved the black box for the Black Hawk helicopter just as yet. But, when they do, one data point on there will be the altitude of that helicopter. We do know, as you mentioned, that they did retrieve the black boxes for the commercial passenger plane. They currently have it in their labs. They have opened it, and they have begun the process of doing a readout to extract that data.

The NTSB is also planning on interviewing the air traffic controllers who were in the tower at that time. I do know, after speaking with members of the NTSB's Go Team, that they have not yet interviewed those air traffic controllers, but that process is underway. Rahel.

SOLOMON: Rene, talk to us a little bit about, I mean, before the NTSB even had a chance to gather all of the evidence, which they're still doing, almost exactly 24 hours ago, viewers of yesterday's program would remember President Trump was blaming the FAA's diversity push for this tragedy, citing exactly zero evidence. What are you learning about all of this?

MARSH: Yeah. I -- that -- those comments came, and I calculated the time. The comments that the President made came roughly 14 and a half hours after that midair collision. Just keep in mind, the NTSB, who are the experts in this sort of thing, they oftentimes take about a year to come up with what the root cause of this sort of disaster is. So, it's just seen as a no-no within the sphere of aviation safety to begin making judgments before all of the evidence is retrieved. And at that point, bodies were still being pulled out of the Potomac River. They had not yet retrieved the black boxes, which is a treasure trove of information, and they had not even begun the process of pulling the debris field out of the Potomac.

I want you to hear this moment that you're referencing of the President in that press conference, talking about DEI. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash.

TRUMP: Because I have common sense. OK? And unfortunately, a lot of people don't.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, to be clear, are you saying race or gender played a role in this tragedy?

TRUMP: It may have. I don't know. Incompetence might have played a role. We'll let you know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: I spoke with a source just to get reaction. This is someone who had been working in aviation safety and accident investigations for decades, and I wanted to get their take, and they said they had never seen anything like this before, because by the President injecting DEI into this crash, they -- he was essentially politicizing aviation safety, something that has never been done, and something they feel is critical not to happen in order to maintain the United States place as the gold standard for aviation safety.

SOLOMON: And those political statements, Rene, moments after he said that moments like these unite us as a country, unite us as a global country, global world, and then made comments, obviously, bashing President Obama, former President Biden, Buttigieg.

Rene Marsh live for us there at Reagan National. Thank you. And as Rene just mentioned, President Trump did not cite any evidence

as to why he blames Democrats and federal diversity initiatives in part for the tragic plane collision. DEI backers, including many top U.S. companies, though, believe that a push for diversity in their workforce has actually been good for their businesses. According to the Boston Consulting Group research, these initiatives have been shown to, at times, boost profits, reduce employee attrition and increase employee motivation. Let's hear more of Trump's remarks on DEI on Thursday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I do want to point out that various articles that appeared prior to my entering office, and here is one, the FAA's diversity push includes focus on hiring people with severe intellectual and psychiatric disabilities. That is amazing. They put a big push to put diversity into the FAA's program.

[11:35:00]

Then it's a group within the FAA, another story, determined that the workforce was too white, that they had concerted efforts to get the administration to change that and to change it immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: All right. My next guest is a pilot and also Chairman of the Board of Directors for the Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals. Tennessee Garvey joins us now from New Hampshire. Tennessee, a pleasure to have you today. Thank you.

TENNESSEE GARVEY, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, ORG. OF BLACK AEROSPACE PROFESSIONALS: It's a pleasure being here. Thank you, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Your just first reaction to the President's repeated comments, repeated, early and often, blaming DEI policies for this incident, again without evidence, and less than 24 hours after this collision.

GARVEY: So, my initial reaction, just very disappointed, disappointing in the sense that the fact that this incident, I've been a preservation community, my heart really goes out to the families, first and foremost. And right now, there is a lot of efforts being put into the recovered of -- the recovery of the bodies, and I know there is going to be a very intensive investigation. And I have the pleasure of working in the industry where we thrive on safety, and every one of us, every stakeholder, embodies safety. We bring safety. We bring excellence to the table every single day.

So, this event is very unfortunate, and there is going to be a lot of lessons to be learned. But, to see that it's the result is as a result of the DEI, that's very unfortunate, because statistically, we've never -- like, we've never been in a rush to judgment like this before.

SOLOMON: Tell us a little bit about -- I mean, we heard in that clip, but also, for those who watched yesterday's program, we listened to the full 30-minute press conference. We heard the President seem to suggest that aerospace hiring standards were being lowered in order to be more inclusive, and again, without evidence, but just his, quote, "common sense", as he said, it, can you explain for us the level of training or the standards that those in aerospace are held to, and whether there are any differences based on your background, based on your race?

GARVEY: Absolutely. So, first and foremost, when it comes to pursuing a career within this industry, everyone is felt to the same standard. In organizations like the Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals, we exist to create opportunities for those that have a desire to pursue a career within this space. Oftentimes, there is underserved communities where there is barriers that exist, where there is individuals that -- they do have the talent, they do have the desire, but they didn't understand the resources. So, irrespective of your background, your race, gender, creed, everyone is held to the same standard.

So, when it comes to going through the process of getting trained and becoming qualified, it's a very rigorous process. And everyone that gets to the point where they are working within this industry, I can assure you that they've gone through very intensive training, and even to the point of working within their position, there is a lot of programs in place where, again, it's just for current training that's taking place. So, at any given time, everyone is held to a very high level of proficiency.

SOLOMON: Yeah. I wonder if you worry about the impact, that comments like those from the President will have on those considering a career in aviation, who may be people of color, maybe come from underrepresented backgrounds, or even those who may be beginning their careers in aviation and feel like they have this increased scrutiny on them simply because of the way they look.

GARVEY: So, I -- that's a very legitimate concern, because the fact that you're working within the space, you're working within this industry, the color of your skin should never be a factor. And with organizations like us, like organizations with Black Aerospace Professionals, again, our message is, we want to support those. We want to mentor them through, and we encourage those that are in this space again to just embody excellence.

The President's remarks, I believe they can be a threat to aviation safety and to public trust within aviation. And I can -- again, anyone that you've seen working with an aviation community, they've gone through the process, they've gone through the training, and again, every single day, a lot of us, we bring our best every single day to the job.

SOLOMON: Tennessee Garvey, we'll leave it there. We appreciate you being with us today. Thank you.

GARVEY: Thank you.

SOLOMON: And while the investigation into the crash gets going, people in Wichita have been remembering the lives that were lost. Hundreds gathered at a prayer vigil to mourn the victims of the worst U.S. air disaster in decades.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA HUGHES MASON, GREATER WICHITA MINISTERIAL LEAGUE: We want you to know that we in the Wichita community are standing in one loud voice together that, like someone said the other day, we will get through this. But, the only way that we will get through this is together, together as one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: And the American Airlines flight took off from Wichita on Wednesday and was approaching Reagan National Airport when the collision occurred.

[11:40:00]

Community leaders are calling on neighbors and friends to come together in this time of tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WU: In memory of those who have lost their lives, in honor of the families that are grieving, I'm asking that we come together as Wichitans, as Kansans and as Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: And all 67 people on board both the American Airlines jet and the U.S. Army helicopter are presumed dead. Sources say that 14 people are still unaccounted for.

We'll be right back.

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SOLOMON: Well, it has been almost three years since the war in Ukraine began, and among the growing number of casualties are U.S. volunteers putting their lives on the line for Ukraine. Some dying in combat. Others have gone missing. That's taking a devastating emotional toll on their families back home, as CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice- over): America isn't sure it wants this war anymore, but some are still fighting it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move, move, move.

WALSH (voice-over): This rare footage move of American volunteers in combat, who are increasingly dying and missing an action. At least 20 now MIA, five cases in just the last six months, as they're used to urgently plug holes in Ukraine's defenses. Fierce fighting has raged around Pokrovsk in the east for months. In the horrific web of bunker defenses there, a three-man American team were pinned down after their mission to blow up a bridge fell apart in September. Only one American survived, call sign "Redneck".

"REDNECK", U.S. VOLUNTEER WHO FOUGHT IN UKRAINE: Artillery kicks in bright and early before the sun is even up, and then followed by two helicopters coming in, attacking us with rockets, and then a boatload of drones and the radios screaming at us, prepare to fight, prepare to fight, prepare to fight.

WALSH (voice-over): Russian footage shows the intense fight back then. A drone strike hit two of the three Americans, one died of his injuries quickly, but the third, Zachary Ford, seen here, seemed to have been stabilized. Yet another attack was coming.

REDNECK: We weren't going to make it through another attack. So, he started asking me to kill him so he wouldn't be captured. I refused. And then he called me over a couple minutes later, told me he loosened his tourniquets.

WALSH (voice-over): Ford was quickly dying from the blood loss.

REDNECK: He wanted to see the sun. So, I laid him down with his head towards the door, so he could look out and see the sun.

[11:45:00]

And I just held his hand, whereas he looked at me and he said, "Never let it be said that the bastards killed me."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- in order to pay the tribute to the warriors, the fathers, or the people of Ukraine.

WALSH (voice-over): The bodies of other fallen Americans have endured a public distressing fate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was respected and loved by everyone.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): Honored here in Kyiv, former U.S. Marine, Corey Nawrocki, who was killed in Bryansk, Russia in October alongside another American. Their bodies were posted on social media and even Corey's mother trolled online before lengthy negotiations returned their remains to Ukraine Friday.

SANDY NAWROCKI, MOTHER OF DECEASED U.S. VOLUNTEER: Oh, gosh. A whirlwind of emotions like relief, but sadness. It's almost like a weight has been lifted off my shoulder because, sorry, because now I don't have to worry about what I think they might be doing to him over there.

WALSH (voice-over): But pro-Russian trials didn't just post images of Corey's body.

NAWROCKI: They had posted a picture of my house, my full address. They would post all these nasty comments and smiley faces and stuff like that. WALSH (voice-over): Texan Lauren Guillaume helps identify dead foreigners, often through a gruesome trawl of morgues. She said foreigners are increasingly used in the toughest spots to fill urgent gaps in Ukrainian manpower.

LAUREN GUILLAUME, R.T. WEATHERMAN FOUNDATION: It has increased dramatically in the past six months, and most of that is missing-in- action cases. We find that foreign operators do fill the gaps of very difficult, high-risk, high-reward operations. We think it is a reflection of how the battlefield looks right now.

WALSH (on camera): Drones, artillery, impossible to get the bodies back.

GUILLAUME: Correct.

WALSH (voice-over): One of her first missions was getting Cedric Hamm, a veteran from Texas, home. He died in Sumy region, was sent home with honors in Kyiv, and found through his tattoos. His mother reads his old text messages.

RAQUEL HAMM, MOTHER OF DECEASED U.S. VOLUNTEER: I met people whose homes were blown up. I met people whose women were raped in front of them. I think God understands I'm doing a good thing. And that was my greatest fear that my son was going to be used as a symbol of hate because here he was as a foreign fighter helping Ukraine. And I'm just -- was so overwhelmed with joy that my son was located, that we were not going to have to wonder.

WALSH (on camera): What do you remember as being the darkest moment for you?

HAMM: Knowing he is not going to be around, pretty much that.

WALSH (on camera): I'm so sorry.

HAMM: It's OK. It's just he was super funny and like could do anything and everything that I asked him to do. Very good son.

WALSH (voice-over): A war so much of America feels distant to, here, so very close to home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLOMON: And one more thing before we go. Sunday is the Grammy Awards, and one performer in particular is creating a lot of excitement for this year's ceremony.

[11:50:00]

(VIDEO PLAYING)

SOLOMON: (Inaudible) Texas, but it is the Grammys, and Beyonce, "Queen B" is nominated for 11 Grammys this year. That would be a career total of 99 nominations, an all-time record, but she has never won the top prize "Album of the Year". Now, organizers say we will notice a different tone to this year's ceremony, reflecting the huge loss and suffering that people around Los Angeles are feeling due to those devastating wildfires. Recording Academy says that the show will acknowledge the impacted communities of the Pacific Palisades and Altadena.

Joining us now from Los Angeles is CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister. So, Elizabeth, talk to us about how the Grammys are shaping up after what's been obviously a really traumatic time for a lot of people there.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This has been an incredibly tough time. And I am born and raised in Los Angeles. So, it has been devastating to see my community with so much loss, but that is why I'm so excited to see the Grammys, and the music industry really coming together to help the music industry and all of Los Angeles.

Rahel, I just sat down this week with the Executive Producer of the Grammys, Ben Winston, and the CEO of the Recording Academy, Harvey Mason Jr. They gave me a first look at what the show is going to look like and how they're going to handle these devastating fires. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Amid a backdrop of tragedy, the nation's deadliest air disaster since 2001 and the most destructive wildfires in Southern California history --

HARVEY MASON, JR., CEO, THE RECORDING ACADEMY: Grammys in this platform is cool, but it's not the most important thing in the world.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): -- Recording Academy CEO Harvey Mason Jr., and Grammys Executive Producer Ben Winston, are tasked with putting on a show that some thought should be called off.

WAGMEISTER (on camera): There have been some people who say award season should be canceled. This is not what we need right now.

BEN WINSTON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 2025 GRAMMY AWARDS: If you could actually take the Grammys, where we know we've got an audience who are going to watch it, we know we've got the biggest stars in the whole world that are sitting there, and we bring real awareness to what's happened. We do some really serious fundraising for the causes that need it so much right now. We pay tribute to our first responders. We showcase LA businesses. Surely, that is worth doing rather than not doing.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Winston and Mason Jr. sat down with CNN during a break in construction of the Grammy set. For them, this show feels personal.

MASON, JR.: I know one guy that lost his entire studio, burned, all his collections, all his instruments, and this is how they make a living. So, if we were to postpone the show, we wouldn't be able to raise the money that we need to support those people.

WINSTON: Before this happened, I probably knew the name of four of my neighbors. I reckon I now know about like 23 of them. Like, there is a sense of community right now in Los Angeles that I personally haven't seen before, where people are helping each other, and I think we can reflect that on the show.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): They point out the majority of working musicians in LA aren't wealthy superstars. Plus, the Grammys telecast brings income to 6,500 workers who depend on award season paychecks.

WINSTON: The drivers, the florists, the builders, the Pas, people, some of whom have lost their homes.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): That said, the Grammys will still be the Grammys, with performances from pop stars like Chappell Roan, Charli XCX and Sabrina Carpenter, country star Brad Paisley and legends like Stevie Wonder.

MASON, JR.: There will be incredible performances. But, there is also going to be a layer of emotion and heart and storytelling about the heroes.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): And if you're in it for, well, the awards, there is that too.

WAGMEISTER (on camera): The Beyonce question, you brought up the race for Best Album.

WINSTON: Yeah.

WAGMEISTER (on camera): Is this the year for Beyonce?

MASON, JR.: I'm going to give you a hard take. I feel like she has got a one in eight chance of winning that thing. I'm serious.

WAGMEISTER (on camera): Statistically, that is absolutely accurate. It's actual. No fact-checking needed.

WINSTON: And still you're going to get ahead of us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WAGMEISTER: So, Rahel, you spoke about Beyonce, and you saw, I had to ask the question. Now, there are around 13,000 voting members in the Recording Academy. So, it's up to them if she is finally going to walk away with a win for "Album of the Year". But, look, as you said, she is breaking her own records actually, and she is already the most nominated artist in Grammy history. Now, some other stars who will be there, Taylor Swift. It was just announced that she is going to be one of the presenters, and some of the most other most nominated stars this year include Chappell Roan, Charli XCX, Billie Eilish. So, it is going to be a jam-packed room.

But, I have to tell you, they do have a tough task, because they have to strike the right tone, given the devastation and loss in Los Angeles with the fires. But, there is precedent for this, Rahel.

[11:55:00]

Back after 9/11, the Emmys did go on, and Ellen DeGeneres was the host that year, and she was met with rave reviews. People said that she finally reminded the world that we can laugh and we can find some joy and comfort all being together. And when I sat down with Ben and Harvey, they told me that music has a healing power, and that is really what they are trying to do with this show on Sunday.

SOLOMON: Yeah, and certainly a lot of people can use healing today. As you rightly pointed out, certainly a lot going on for folks in California and the Los Angeles area, but the nation as well, after the collision in D.C.

Elizabeth Wagmeister, thank you.

WAGMEISTER: Thank you.

SOLOMON: Happy watching.

All right. And thank you for spending some time with me today. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York. Stick with CNN. One World is coming up next.

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