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CNN International: Canada Unveils Tariffs on Imports from the U.S.; Future of USAID; Black Boxes Recovered from Plane and Chopper Wreckage; Canada Hits Back with Retaliatory Tariffs; Netanyahu in Washington as Ceasefire Talks Deadline Looms; Beyonce Wins Album of the Year for "Cowboy Carter". Aired 8-9a ET

Aired February 03, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00]

AMARA WALKER, CNN HOST: Hi everyone, and welcome to our viewers all around the world. I'm Amara Walker. This is CNN Newsroom. Just ahead, trading blows U.S. President Donald Trump lashes out at Canada, Mexico and China with tariffs. We'll tell you how those countries are fighting back.

Plus, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is in Washington ahead of a crucial meeting with President Trump. What does this mean for the cease fire in Gaza? And Beyonce's Big night, the Pop Superstar finally takes home music's biggest prize.

Immigration and trade have normally been seen as separate areas of politics until now. U.S. President Donald Trump has slapped sweeping tariffs on goods from America's three biggest trade partners, Mexico, Canada and China. He is using them to reinforce his demand that they curb the flow of migrants and fentanyl into the U.S.

A trade war could dent global growth and fuel inflation, since its consumers who will -- it's the consumers who will bear the brunt of tariffs, and that is something Mr. Trump says he'll be okay with in the long run.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It may have short term some little pain, and people understand that, but long term, the United States has been ripped off by virtually every country in the world. We have deficits with almost every country, not every country, but almost. And we're going to change it. It's been unfair. That's why we owed $36 trillion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Well, in the coming hours, we could see Mexico unveil countermeasures, while Canada's Prime Minister is set to talk with President Trump later, Justin Trudeau says tariffs do not lead to prosperity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: This is a choice that, yes, will harm Canadians, but beyond that, it will have real consequences for you, the American people. If President Trump wants to usher in a new golden age for the United States the better path is to partner with Canada, not to punish us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Canada is already fighting back. Paula Newton joining us now with that part of the story. Paula tell us more about Canada's move here, and it sounds like Trudeau has left the door open for even more tariffs in the future.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, there are some that will go into play this week, the retaliatory tariffs, the others in about three weeks from now. But Amara, before we get to the details of this, I just want to let everyone know the kind of grassroots, visceral reaction there has been to this in Canada.

Really, from coast to coast to coast, people really acting like jilted partners here, saying, look, they feel betrayed. They do not know why this is happening. Sure, they understand that there may be trade irritants between the countries, but really, they do not understand why the United States would be punishing Canada this way.

And remember Amara you know, underlying all of this is the fact that the president continues to push this idea of Canada becoming the 51st state, and saying that basically, Canada has no value to add in terms of trading with the United States.

Now, look, they've tried to be measured the Canadian government says, but at the end of the day, they are willing to also take some pain in this country. Not only Amara does that involve putting in their own retaliatory tariffs on things like juice, American wine, beer, alcohol, even things like vegetables.

I mean, there are so many different things that Canada is willing to do at this point. They say it's proportional. But I want to highlight where I am right now. I'm in a place called Oakville, Ontario, just outside of Toronto. And Amara they have a Ford Assembly Plant here, and have for decades, things like the car market here.

The amount of parts that go back and forth between the border that would now technically be subject to a 25 percent tariff every time they go back and forth, will really have an effect here, not just on the price of cars in both Canada and the United States, but crucially, workers and what they can expect in terms of jobs and prosperity going forward. Amara it is - to say, everyone hoping that there is some type of more negotiation to come, but the White House so far isn't signaling that.

WALKER: And yeah, I mean, the reaction is real, and it does seem like you know that there's been some stunning reverberations across the country. Can you talk a little bit more about what this will mean then for Canadians versus Americans? Because there are concerns about how long this trade war could last, and also what this would mean for the economy and a potential recession?

NEWTON: Yeah, absolutely. Let me say a few things. Look, I would say that -- you know while markets are down, we've had a bit of a muted reaction, why?

[08:05:00]

Because this would be so catastrophic in terms of the trade relationship between Canada and the United States that no one quite believes that it would last that long, and they'd actually go through that if this lasted, let's say, though, for six months to a year, clearly, economists say Canada would be in a recession.

Would this hurt the United States too? Absolutely, there would be increased inflation, and it would be a drain on growth. But make no mistake, Amara in a trade war the U.S. wins had down. Canada is about a 10th the size of the United States in terms of an economy, and no one is sugar coating that here in Canada, least of all the prime minister.

This will mean pain for Canadian consumers as well for the American consumers. It will be pain, all around. And Canada is willing at this point to try it and fight back, because they don't really see any other alternative, because the White House has not said to them, look, you do this by this date and we will hammer out a new trade agreement.

That's not what's happening here. The barometer has basically been again, bringing down the number of American deaths to fentanyl, which no doubt incredibly tragic is here in Canada as well. But that is not a metric that really is going to lead to easing of these tariffs any time soon.

So, we'll see the prime minister and the president are supposed to speak in the coming hours. Justin Trudeau being very blunt, saying, look, he tried to call the White House since the president was inaugurated, and he was not picking up his calls.

WALKER: All right. Well, it looks like they're supposed to have a call today. Let's see how that goes. Obviously extraordinary times and brutally cold times as well for you, Paula, I hope you can get inside and get warm soon. Thanks so much. Paula, good to see you.

Well, the business world is also weighing in on what it thinks of the Trump tariffs and stock prices are sinking all over the world. Let's bring in CNN's Matt Egan for more on that angle. Matt, good morning. So, let's talk about what these tariffs will mean for businesses and consumers.

And it was interesting to listen to Trudeau, because obviously it was a very somber speech. But he also addressed Americans directly, and he issued warnings about -- you know these tariffs leading to jobs -- you know being lost and the shutdown of American auto assembly plants and manufacturing facilities. Give us a big picture here.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Amara, this is what the beginning of a trade war looks like, right? There's chaos, confusion. There's economists warning about higher prices, and there, yeah, there's turmoil in the stock market. We're seeing DOW futures down about 600 almost 700 points at last check, NASDAQ Futures down 2 percent or so.

World markets down as well. Investors are clearly concerned. This is on top of the sell off that we saw at the end of the day on Friday, when it increasingly looked like these tariffs may actually happen. You see European markets down solidly because President Trump says that he's going to go forward with tariffs on the European Union as well next.

So, look business groups they are alarmed. They're warning that there's going to be higher prices, potentially job loss. Just a few examples. The sneaker industry came out and said that these tariffs are going to cost consumers more because we import a lot of sneakers from China.

We've seen the oil industry say that they want to have lower tariff rates, or no tariffs at all on Canadian energy, because we import a lot of crude from Canada. Farmers are saying they're going to be hurt by retaliation. They're already seeking aid from the Trump Administration to protect them from the retaliatory tariffs that they're bracing for.

The housing industry says there's going to be higher home prices because we import a lot of building materials from Canada, also from Mexico. So, you could have a situation where the housing affordability crisis actually gets worse here. And I know that a lot of this feels kind of like Groundhog Day, right?

Because we did see tariffs during Trump's first term in office. But it is really important to stress that what the president is less than 24 hours away from doing is just so much bigger in size and scope than anything he did during the first term, right?

We're putting -- talking about putting tariffs on more than 40 percent of all U.S. imports on the not just one of the major trading partners, the three biggest trading partners, into the U.S., and you're going to have potentially retaliate -- retaliatory tariffs from all three of them.

And also, this is just coming at a very different time, right? I mean, consumers, investors, central bankers. There's so much more sensitive to shifts in prices than they were before. And so, look, Amara, this is clearly a gamble. There is the risk that this upends the thing that voters care the most about, right the economy and the cost of living.

WALKER: Yeah, very concerning indeed and uncertain times. Matt Egan, thank you so much for breaking that down for us.

EGAN: Thank you, Amara.

[08:10:00]

WALKER: So, while the White House deals with the fallout from its trade war, America's top diplomat is heading to another country that has drawn interest from Donald Trump. Secretary of State, Marco Rubio wakes up this morning in Panama. He spent the weekend pressing Panamanian leaders to pull back on relations with China, even as President Trump again threatened to retake control of the Panama Canal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What they've done is terrible. They violated the agreement. They're not allowed to violate the agreement. China is running the Panama Canal that was not given to China, that was given to Panama foolishly, but they violated the agreement, and we're going to take it back, or something very powerful is going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Rubio is expected to travel to El Salvador later this hour. He's hoping to get that country to agree to a deal that would allow the U.S. to send Venezuelan migrants to El Salvador and seek asylum there.

Meanwhile, there is uncertainty over the next stage of talks to extend the fragile Gaza ceasefire under terms of the initial agreement. Talks on the second phase of the deal should begin no later than today in Doha or Cairo, but Israel has yet to even unveil a negotiating team, and its prime minister is in Washington.

Benjamin Netanyahu will discuss Israel's positions with U.S. Middle East Envoy Steve Witkoff, today. On Tuesday, the prime minister meets Donald Trump, and he will be the first foreign leader to have a formal meeting with the new U.S. President. CNN's Senior White House Reporter Kevin Liptak, joining us now. Kevin, so many international issues on Trump's agenda this week, the tariffs, Panama, the Mideast. Why the foreign policy push now?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, it is interesting. In the first two weeks in office, Trump really did focus on his domestic agenda, reshaping the federal government, and it's clear now that he is turning his attention abroad, beginning with that meeting with Netanyahu tomorrow.

But we've also learned that the Jordanian King Abdullah will also be visiting the White House within the next week to meet with Trump. And I think it all goes to show that Trump is very much focused on trying to tamp down on some of these global flash points that he was so critical of President Biden for when he was a candidate/

Certainly, with Netanyahu, they'll want to discuss the ongoing ceasefire and hostage talks, but one thing that I'll be interested to know whether they discuss is whether Trump is pushing Netanyahu towards a larger normalization agreement in the Middle East with Saudi Arabia that had been an aim of the Biden Administration as well.

The hope is, of course, that that could sort of ease tensions across the region and create a regional bulwark against Iran. And Trump has been open that this is an outcome that he could see happening. Remember, during his first term in office, he worked with a number of Arab and Muslim countries to try and normalize relations with Israel.

Now, whether they get into the nitty gritty of that tomorrow, I think, remains to be seen. Certainly, they do have plenty to discuss when it comes to the here and now trying to continue that Gaza ceasefire, I will say Netanyahu is already here in Washington. He's staying at Blair House, right across the street. Security very heavy for him.

While he's here, he's also expected to meet with leaders on Capitol Hill. I think the one issue that you haven't necessarily heard a lot about, well, you've heard a lot about it, but you haven't necessarily heard a lot of progress, is the war in Ukraine. Donald Trump has been saying for the last two weeks that he wants to speak with the Russian President, Vladimir Putin.

He wants to get those talks started on ending that conflict. But you haven't necessarily seen, for instance, the American Envoy to Ukraine, Keith Kellogg, go to the region to begin those conversations in earnest. I think that all goes to speak to how difficult that situation will be for Trump.

Of course, he did say at one point that he would end the war in Ukraine within 24 hours of taking office, but he hasn't necessarily explained the contours of how he would do that, nor has he said what security guarantees he would be willing to provide to Ukraine in order for it to make concessions to Russia to bring the conflict to an end.

But I think what you're seeing here is Donald Trump sort of taking his first steps if this second administration onto the global stage, and certainly plenty of foreign leaders, plenty of foreign capitals, are waiting with anticipation to see exactly what happened.

WALKER: Kevin, you mentioned, it's been exactly two weeks since the inauguration of Donald Trump. I think for a lot of people, it feels much longer than that, and maybe it's because he's been moving at lightning speed and trying to get his agenda accomplished. But tell me more about how the Trump Administration has been feeling so far.

LIPTAK: Well, I think when you talk to officials, they certainly think that they have come into this second administration with a lot more know how and a lot more experience than they did the first time around in. Remember back in 2017 those first weeks of the Trump Administration were marked with an intense degree of chaos, particularly when it came to some of the executive orders that Trump signed that were blocked in court.

[08:15:00]

Now you have seen some of that this time around, particularly when it comes to the blocking of federal funding. That was an episode that in a lot of ways, were very reminiscent of the first Trump Administration. But by and large, the officials that are staffing President Trump this time around are working with an enormous degree of efficiency, particularly when it comes to reshaping the federal workforce and reshaping the federal bureaucracy.

And I think when you talk to officials, that is the area where they do think they are having the most impact, and they do think that that could help Donald Trump fulfill his campaign promises in ways that he wasn't necessarily able to do the first time around.

And I think, you know, just this morning, the biggest example of that appears to be at USAID, the American foreign aid agency, employees there were told this morning not to report to work to the headquarters.

You heard Elon Musk, of course, the world's richest man who has been tasked by Donald Trump with reshaping the federal government, say overnight that Trump had told him that he had signed off on shutting down USAID. All of these things, I think, are examples of how this administration is working much more quickly than it did the first time around.

WALKER: Absolutely. Kevin Liptak, always appreciate your reporting there from the White House. Thank you very much, Kevin. And still to come, as Kevin Liptak just mentioned moments ago, it's the latest ominous sign for the international aid agency.

The main office of USAID, US Aid is unexpectedly closed and staff told to stay home. More details just ahead. Also, as divers scour the murky waters of the Potomac River for the wreckage from a deadly midair collision, a third black box has been discovered, we'll have a live report next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALKER: The Washington D.C. Headquarters of USAID is unexpectedly closed right now, and according to multiple sources, staff were told to stay home today in an early morning email. Now this comes amid questions over the future of the humanitarian agency after the White House ordered that its funding be frozen and put dozens of employees on leave.

Elon Musk said on social media early Monday that President Trump believes USAID needs to be shut down. America's Agency for International Development provides billions of dollars of life saving aid globally. CNN's Jennifer Hansler joining me now live at the U.S. State Department with more.

Jennifer, tell us more about this email that USAID staffers received, and what do we know about why this is happening now?

JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Well Amara, this is the clearest sign yet that the president may intend to abolish the U.S. Agency for International Development. These workers who work out of the headquarters here in Washington were told not to show up to the building today, and that further details would be forthcoming.

[08:20:00]

Now this comes amid a number of other signals that the president may intend to move the agency under the auspices of the U.S. State Department. We saw overnight the president, as well as Elon Musk, who has played an outsized role in the administration's decisions on federal agencies, excoriating the agency and demonizing it, claiming that there's been a misuse of funds, claiming that its workforce is run by, quote, radical leftists.

They did not provide much evidence for these claims, but they have targeted the agency as something that needs to be eliminated, perhaps, and we heard from Musk claiming that Trump has agreed that it needs to be shut down.

We also saw a number of developments over the weekend, personnel from Musk's Dogue Office try to enter the State Department, to access the building, access personnel files and perhaps even classified information. This is something that has drawn a lot of alarm from Democrats on the Hill in a letter to Secretary of State, Marco Rubio.

Democrats from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee expressed alarm. I'm just going to read a little bit of it. They said the potential access of sensified -- sensitive, even classified files, which may include the personally identifiable information of Americans working with USAID, and this incident as a whole, raises deep concerns about the protection and safeguarding of matters related to U.S. national security.

Now they're also raising alarm about the potential folding of USAID under the State Department. They say that this is a federal agency that was established as an independent agency back under the Kennedy Administration, and they say that the president cannot choose to unilaterally move it or get rid of it by executive order. They say that Congress must be consulted in these funds.

And then to zoom out, there is the broader concern about the impact of getting rid of USAID on humanitarian work, on emergency work to respond to these natural disasters around the globe and as well as the workforce, we've already seen a huge economic impact from that foreign aid freeze on American workers.

Thousands of people have been furloughed or laid off from their jobs working on foreign aid and assistance. So, there is a lot of concern about what a permanent shutting down of this agency could do for American jobs, Amara.

WALKER: Yeah, deep concern, indeed. Jennifer Hansler, thank you. Now authorities working to figure out what caused the deadly medevac plane crash in Philadelphia, now have the cockpit voice recorder to help them. The jet carrying a pediatric patient and her mother, came down. You can see the crater there in a residential neighborhood on Friday night, six people on board the aircraft, all Mexican were killed, along with one person on the ground.

Now, the operator confirmed the identities of the four dead crew members pictured here, five people remain hospitalized. Three are in critical condition. Meanwhile, salvage crews are set to begin removing wreckage at the site of the deadliest U.S. air disaster in more than 20 years, and recovery efforts are also continuing for the remains of the victims of last week's midair collision over the Potomac involving an American Airlines jet and a U.S. Army helicopter. Authorities say 55 of the 67 victims have been recovered and

identified. Federal investigators, meanwhile, are combing through the evidence and now examining the helicopter's black box. CNN's Gabe Cohen is live at Reagan National Airport with the latest. Gabe, so, what are we expecting as this operation gets underway this morning?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPODENT: Yes. So, Amara, we are expecting that lift operation to start, really any minute now. We know that a crane, a barge, some other heavy equipment, has been brought to the wreckage site, and the plan is to lift pieces of the plane out of the water, hoping that it is going to help them find those additional 12 people who are still missing in the Potomac.

We heard from the Fire Chief of D.C., who is leading that operation. I asked him yesterday how confident he is that they will find those remaining people. Take a listen to what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN DONNELLY, CHIEF, DC FIRE AND EMS: So, it is my belief that we're going to recover everyone. If we knew where they were, though we would already have them out. So, we have some work to do as the salvage operation goes on, and we will absolutely stay here and search until such point as we have everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: But Amara, that process could take days. As for the investigation, we heard from federal investigators over the weekend as they start to put the pieces together of what happened here. They have been able to analyze the black boxes from on board the jet, and some of the preliminary information indicates that the plane may have been pitching up at the last moment.

Perhaps indicating that the pilots on board that jet saw the Black Hawk in that those final seconds, tried to avert a disaster, but it was just too late. We have also learned from that preliminary data that the collision happened when the jet was flying at around 325 feet.

[08:25:00]

Now that number is significant, and it is not confirmed at this point, the NTSB still needing to look at the black box from on board the Black Hawk. But if, in fact, the helicopter was also flying at an altitude of more than 300 feet, that is significant, because helicopters along that route on the Potomac River aren't supposed to be above 200 feet.

So, investigators are going to want to know why that is. There are also questions about FAA staffing. We know that officials have confirmed air traffic controllers they were short staffed that night with one doing two jobs, although a source has told our team that's not particularly uncommon.

A lot of questions. We heard from the Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy about some of those outstanding questions. Here's what he said yesterday on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, U.S. TRANSPORATION SECRETARY: I'll tell you this. The questions I have is, you know what was happening inside the tower? Were they understaffed and the position of the Black Hawk, the elevation of the Black Hawk, were the pilots of the Black Hawk wearing night vision goggles? Did it affect their peripheral vision or their perception?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Yeah. So, Amara, you can hear it. There so many questions still outstanding. We are hoping that perhaps the NTSB federal investigators are going to brief the media a little later today with some additional findings. We don't know if they've been able to analyze that black box from on board the helicopter.

Hopefully that will provide more information. But of course, this is a slow process that salvage operation, though, should be going any minute now, and hopefully they will, of course, recover those 12- remaining people.

WALKER: Yeah, Gabe Cohen, appreciate you being there at Reagan National thank you very much. So, the Greek Island of Santorini has been struck by 200 minor earthquakes. In recent days, the tremors have forced schools to close on the popular tourist island, and authorities have advised residents to avoid large indoor gatherings.

Now, the island, which sits on several fault lines, is no stranger to earthquakes. It is also in one of Europe's most active volcanic fields. In Northeastern Australia, deadly flood waters rose for a third day on Monday, one person has drowned, and thousands of residents are under evacuation orders, mainly in coastal areas.

The flooding was triggered by record rainfall. North Queensland got an entire summer's worth of rain in just a few days. Still to come, the impact of Donald Trump's tariffs, which products will be Americans be paying more for? The answer when you come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]

WALKER: We return now to our top story and the fallout from Donald Trump's tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China. Trump is scheduled to speak this morning with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Canada has promised it will impose its own tariffs on U.S. goods in response.

And Mexico says it will announce retaliatory tariffs in the next few hours. If you want to know how regular people are feeling about all this, check out this video from a Toronto Raptors basketball game. As the U.S. National Anthem was being sung, the Canadian crowd began booing.

And "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board, not known for its open criticism of Mr. Trump, says this is the dumbest trade war in history. It says leaving China aside, Mr. Trump's justification for this economic assault on the neighbors makes no sense. For more on the impact of the trade war and what is going to cost Americans.

Let's bring in CNN's Business and Politics Correspondent Vanessa Yurkevich. Good morning, Vanessa, tell us more about the reaction from businesses and industries who are likely to feel the pain of these terrorists first. Which ones are they as well?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, we're hearing from every major organization in every single industry, really, because these tariffs are going to impact $1.4 trillion worth of goods coming in from Canada, Mexico and China.

And just to remind viewers, at the end of the day, the businesses bringing those products in end up paying the tariff, and then that ultimately gets passed down to the U.S. consumer. So, you're hearing from the manufacturing industry saying that they are extremely worried about these tariffs.

You're hearing from the ag industry saying that they are very nervous about what this could mean for farmers and ultimately, U.S. consumers. You also have the alcohol industry, wooden lumber, the shoe footwear industry, because we get about 50 percent of all footwear that U.S. consumers buy from China, and also electronics.

Obviously, a huge component of what Americans buy every single day. Many of those goods coming in from China. And Amara, this is really interesting, because in 2018, Trump did put tariffs on many of our trading partners, including China, Canada and Mexico, but it was about a fifth, a fifth of all the goods that he's now putting tariffs on.

This could be very detrimental for the U.S., consumer and businesses as they're the ones ultimately camera picking up the tax and picking up the tariff.

WALKER: All right, Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you very much. So, the trade war will have major consequences for all countries involved. Here's how Canada in particular could be impacted by the tariffs. It provides the U.S. with oil, minerals, cement, wood and paper goods.

Those imports supply fuel for our cars and materials to build homes. And of course, they are key exports that help fuel Canada's economy. Let's take a closer look now at the tension between the U.S. and Canada. We're joined now by Andrew MacDougall. He was the Communications Director for Stephen Harper when he was Canada's Prime Minister.

Andrew, thank you for your time. I just first want to get your reaction, because we were speaking with Paula Newton, a Canadian as well. And you know, she's a CNN Correspondent based in Ottawa. And she was trying to describe just that, the sense of shock and the feeling of betrayal that many of the people she spoke with are feeling. What are your thoughts? ANDREW MACDOUGALL, FORMER CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER STEPHEN HARPER'S COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Very much that, shock is the right word. This is as if your happy 50-year marriage suddenly dissolved overnight, and your spouse went out and took your money, punched you in the face and left you for dead. That's kind of what it feels like.

It is that visceral shock. There's no more successful partnership between two free sovereign nations on Earth, I would argue, than Canada and the United States.

[08:35:00]

And so, to receive this treatment from the President of the United States is s a tectonic shift in the plates between the two countries on North America, or two of the three countries in North America, I should say.

WALKER: Yeah. Listen, I'm sure a lot of Americans are shocked by this as well. You know the given that Canada has been historically, a very close ally, not just geographically, but on so many levels economically, also when it comes to security and social ties. So, Andrew, there's going to be this phone call between President Trump and Prime Minister Trudeau. What needs to happen in that conversation? What do you think Trudeau should say?

MACDOUGALL: Well, I think you have to try to bottom out what this is really about. And that's the difficulty with this president. Is that he could be one thing one day, another thing the other day. He'll talk about fentanyl, he'll talk about not spending enough on the military, and then he'll just talk about wanting Canada as the 51st state.

So, I think the Prime Minister has to bottom out what the ask is, if there is a concrete ask, and then you have something to work with. But I think it's also a mistake to presume that there is an ask from this president beside the need to want to dominate, to seem to be dominating another nation. I think it really is a base instinct with this president.

WALKER: So, as you know, Trudeau clearly, hesitantly, retaliated with 25 percent tariffs on more than $100 billion worth of U.S. goods. And let's listen to what Trump had to say about responding to the retaliation. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's been a one-way street. We subsidize Canada by the tune of about $200 billion a year, and for what, what do we get out of it? We don't get anything out of it. I love the people of Canada. I disagree with the leadership of Canada.

And something is going to happen there, but if they want to play the game, I don't mind. We can play the game all they want. Mexico, we've had very good talks with them, and this is retaliatory.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WALKER: So, Andrew, how concerned are you about all of this just escalating because Trudeau has left the door open, he said, you know, all options remain on the table for further retaliation.

MACDOUGALL: Yeah. I mean, it's a tricky thing to try to war game, a scenario against someone who doesn't really use logic or respond to logic, and to hear the president talk about being taken advantage of. I'm sure your viewers know that most of that taking advantage of, is Canada shipping oil and products like oil to the United States, because it has no other export markets, and the United States then exports that.

And that saves them a lot of money and saves the U.S. consumer who fuels up their car or truck, a lot of money. So that's what the taking advantage of is, which is to say you're not being taken advantage at all by Canada. And hopefully there are enough people in civil society, business groups, governors, et cetera.

Legislators in the capital building that can come help Canada out here, because it really will, as you say, as you noted, hurt the U.S. consumer first and foremost.

WALKER: As you know very well, it's a politically fraught moment for Trudeau. As you know, he'll be resigning as the prime minister and as a leader of his party in March. I am curious to know how you feel like he's been dealing with this. Let's first take a listen to what Trudeau said in a news conference, and he appealed to Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUDEAU: This is a choice that, yes, will harm Canadians, but beyond that, it will have real consequences for you, the American people. If President Trump wants to usher in a new golden age for the United States, the better path is to partner with Canada, not to punish us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: How do you think Trudeau has been handling all this? I mean, it was a somber news conference. Trudeau made it clear that he did not ask for this trade war. From your point of view, has he been doing a good job with his messaging?

MACDOUGALL: Well, it's almost not a question of messaging. I think he is saying the right things. It's just who's saying them is the more important thing. And this president, particular, can smell weakness and knows that Justin Trudeau is on his way out, has said he's going to be resigning.

And that Canada's legislature is now not sitting. It is a bit hamstrung in terms of how it can operate, and that signal of weakness matters more than the words the person who holds that office is saying what you need as a leader with a strong mandate, with a fresh mandate, to take this challenge on, this very real and could be an existential challenge to the Canadian economy to take it head on.

WALKER: Yeah, you're right. It's not about the messaging. Is about who is saying it, and it's a really tough time in politics right now for Canada. We'll see how this all plays out with you. Andrew MacDougall, thank you very much.

[08:40:00]

Still to come, the Israeli Prime Minister is in Washington as his office remains silent about the next phase of the Gaza ceasefire talks that are set to begin today. We're going to talk to an expert about what's at play here.

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WALKER: And more now on the Middle East, where talks on extending a Gaza ceasefire were supposed to start today, but Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is in Washington, and his government has not unveiled the negotiating team for the talks.

Netanyahu is set to discuss Israel's positions with U.S. Middle East Envoy Steve Witkoff today and then meet with Donald Trump on Tuesday. Meanwhile, the Israeli military blew up several buildings in the Jenin refugee camp in the occupied West Bank, where a large-scale operation is underway.

Israel says it was targeting terrorists. Five people were killed over the weekend, and that is according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health. For more now on what might be next in the ceasefire deal is, we're going to bring in Sanam Vakil. She is a Director of the Middle East and North Africa Program at Chatham House, and she's joining us now from London.

Sanam, thank you so much for your time. I first want to ask you about you know this -- the talks for the second phase are we're supposed to begin today, but the fact that the Israelis have not unveiled publicly their negotiating team. Netanyahu is in Washington for talks with President Trump.

What does this all signal to you? And are the Israelis in violation of the deal by talking with Trump first?

SANAM VAKIL, DIRECTOR OF MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA PROGRAM AT CHATHAM HOUSE: Well, good morning, and thank you for having me. Yes, technically, this is a violation, but Netanyahu is banking on an alignment with President Trump, and he's looking to get a sense of what the President is seeking here. They don't necessarily see eye to eye.

It's clear that President Trump wants to claim victory for ending the war in Gaza and delivering a permanent ceasefire. And Netanyahu himself is trying to delay that prospect, because, as we have seen in the exchange of hostages over the past week, as they've been released, Hamas is not formally defeated, militarily degraded, certainly, but it's still there.

And so technically, that is problematic. But also, more broadly, there is no real vision from Israel on what the end of conflict looks like. There is no political settlement. There's no political horizon. And Netanyahu is quite fragile with his coalition also at home.

WALKER: So, what are your concerns then, about talks over phase two. Will they happen?

VAKIL: I think they will happen because President Trump will shoehorn Netanyahu come hell or high water to start those talks. They're going to start with a delay, though.

[08:45:00]

And hopefully we'll get a sense after the meeting between President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu tomorrow what they agree on. More broadly, I think Netanyahu is also going to this meeting hoping to convince President Trump to pursue maximum pressure against Iran.

There are divergent strategies there as well. The president has indicated that he might want to negotiate with the Iranians over their nuclear program. And Netanyahu here sees Iran very weakened across the region, and Hezbollah and Hamas also militarily weakened. And so, he's putting forward that this is a historical opportunity to go after Iran itself.

WALKER: But if they're not clearly aligned on Iran, because obviously it's a weakened Iran, and this might be an opportunity from Netanyahu point of view, to resume strikes. And of course, you know, Trump may be trying to find a middle ground here. What might that conversation sound like then?

VAKIL: I think it will be tense. The last time Netanyahu and Trump were in office together, over four years ago, it wasn't a warm and fuzzy relationship. President Trump had to again press Netanyahu to accept the Abraham accords. And we can see that those dynamics might very much resurface.

They have mended ties, and of course, President Trump has a very pro- Israel team around him. But if the president is seeking to deliver a bigger, better deal, a deal of the century for the Middle East, and if he wants to reinvigorate Israeli-Saudi normalization, that dynamic is contingent on also thinking about the day after thinking about a Palestinian state.

And so, all of these issues are quite interconnected, and so the president is really going to have to double down and press Netanyahu to compromise.

WALKER: So Sanam over the second phase, or the second period, the understanding is that the Israeli military would fully withdraw from Gaza, and then all the living hostages would be released by Hamas in exchange for more Palestinian prisoners.

But I'm sure you're aware that Trump made these comments days ago about suggesting, relocating all the Palestinians out of Gaza, perhaps to Jordan and other countries in the Mid East. Are you -- are there concerns that a full withdrawal then might not happen?

VAKIL: Certainly, they're very concerned. And I think that Netanyahu wants to delay an Israeli withdrawal from Gaza. He would like to make sure that Hamas has no long-term political viability in Gaza. And without thinking about next day governance or reauthorizing the Palestinian authority to take a bolder role.

There are a lot of questions out there that haven't been answered, and so withdrawing the IDF, I think it will come at the very late stages, but this is also tied to the third phase of this ceasefire. Palestinians are seeking a permanent ceasefire, not a temporary pause. And a permanent ceasefire requires all parties Israel included, to be thinking about the long term and to be thinking about governance in Gaza, security in Gaza.

And this goes back to the issue of Arab states, what role they will play, how they will help rehabilitate the Palestinian authority, what statehood might look like. And ultimately, this is connected also, again, to normalization. I think President Trump has, of course, tried to take a very hard line and very dangerous position in suggesting that Palestinians should leave Gaza for Egypt and Jordan.

This could be a negotiating tactic to mobilize the region to take a bolder role, but it is a very dangerous one, because there are millions of Palestinian refugees across the Middle East who have yet to be able to return to their original homes from 75 years ago.

WALKER: Yeah, you're right, Sanam. I mean, there's so many questions about, well, what happens long term when it comes to governance? What will post war Gaza look like? That's going to be the most difficult part to figure out, right? I mean, once they do, perhaps if they do get past the second phase and find a permanent end to the war.

I mean, so many questions like you say about who will run Gaza and who will help with the rebuilding of the homes and the communities?

VAKIL: There has been a lot of work done over the past 16, 17, months where Arab states have been thinking about processes. Saudi Arabia is leading a coalition of 94 countries in favor of a two-state solution. So that's their condition for normalization with Israel.

To get the Arab states to commit to a rebuilding of Gaza, to reconstruction processes, it's going to have to come with commitments on the Israeli side as well.

[08:50:00]

There are also efforts to reform the Palestinian authority. It's not really visible, and certainly there are some real challenges there. And of course, as you began this set, you did mention the bombings in Jenin and the efforts at eradicating terrorists there. The Israeli government is certainly taking a moment away from Gaza to address security concerns in the West Bank, and this hasn't drawn enough international outcry or attention.

This is part of a broader military campaign to try and erase all of the security challenges that Israel has been facing for quite some time, but it isn't doing so in an equitable or realistic way.

WALKER: Yeah.

VAKIL: And it isn't thinking about the day after.

WALKER: Yeah. It just underscores all of it, our entire conversation, just how delicate the situation is and how complex and challenging it will be to get to the end of this war. Sanam Vakil, thank you very much for your time. And still to come, the Grammys honored first responders and raised millions to help Los Angeles bounce back from those devastating wildfires. We'll have a live report, next.

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BEYONCE, AMERICAN SINGER-SONGWRITER: It's been many, many years. And I just want to thank the Grammys every songwriter, every collaborator, every producer, all of the hard work. I want to dedicate this to Ms. Martell, and I hope we just keep pushing forward, opening doors. God bless you all. Thank you so much. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: It has been many, many years, after five best album Grammy nominations in her career, Beyonce finally took home the music industry's biggest prize Sunday night for Cowboy Carter. Her record 99 Grammy nominations is more than any other artist ever.

Kendrick Lamar, "Not Like Us," also was a big winner, including song and record of the year, but the night belonged to Los Angeles, as the Grammys honored first responders who fought those devastating wildfires. Artists paid tributes and raised some $7 million to help L.A. bounce back.

Joining me now from Los Angeles is CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister, really was an emotional night, so many tears the audience for so many reasons, but for Beyonce, it had to be a huge lift for her to finally win finally, Album of the Year.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Amara, I am having a tough time hearing you. I think we're having audio issues, but I am just going to run through some of the big moments of the night. It was Beyonce's night. After being nominated numerous times for Album of the Year and never winning, she finally won last night.

She also won for Best Country Album of the Year. Of course, this all for Cowboy Carter and coming on the heels of her announcing that she has a Cowboy Carter tour coming this year in 2025. Now, Beyonce herself looked shocked when her name was called by none other than Taylor Swift when she won for Best Country album.

And by the way, Beyonce already had made history at the Grammys, she went in with the most nominations with 11 nominations last night, and she was already the most nominated artist in Grammy history.

[08:55:00] Now, some of the other big winners last night were Sabrina Carpenter, as you said, Kendrick Lamar, also Chappell Roan, who won for best new artists, which was an absolutely stacked category, and all of the artists nominated in that category performed, which was something new that they had them all perform, which really just shows the amount of talent that there was in that category.

Now, as you said, this night was all about rebuilding L.A. The show kicked off with a song we love L.A. later in the show, Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars, they performed, and Host Trevor Noah said about halfway through the show that they had already raised $7 million just from viewers at home who were scanning that QR code and making donations.

And lastly, I will tell you that the night before I went to the biggest Grammys party every year, which is, of course, Clive Davis' Grammys party, and that was also all about fire relief. And the organization music cares had raised over $4 million and continued to fund raise during that party as well, Amara.

WALKER: Amazing. I'm so glad that they also, you know, made it all about the first responders, so important. CNN Entertainment Correspondent, Elizabeth Wagmeister, thank you. And thank you for being here with me on CNN Newsroom. I'm Amara Walker. "Connect the World" is up next.

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