Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

RFK Jr. Approved in Party-Line Vote by Committee; Vance Vows to Finish East Palestine Cleanup. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired February 04, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:30:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR:

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- had a trouble getting to yes, but something changed. And what changed over the weekend? He did not answer that question just now. He said he's going to speak on the Senate floor at 11:40 a.m. Eastern. He said that watch that. So, we'll be watching for those remarks.

But he did post on X about his view and how about what everyone want to know, how he would ultimately vote. That happened just moments before this vote took place. He said he had very intense conversations with the White House this weekend and with Bobby Kennedy Jr. He said he spoke to J. D. Vance as well. He said he had received serious commitments from the administration and the opportunity to, quote, "make progress on the issues we agree on, like healthy foods and a pro-America agenda."

No mention in that statement about vaccines, no mention about how those concerns that he expressed last week changed. But this vote decisive, sending this to the Senate floor. And now, it will be up to the full Senate to decide what to do. We do know that there are some senators who have not said what they'll do. The two perennial swing votes, Senators Lisa Murkowski, Senator Susan Collins. What will Senator Mitch McConnell do himself, a childhood polio survivor, someone who believes very strongly in the issue of vaccines, someone who voted against Pete Hegseth for defense secretary on the Senate floor, what will he do? But that's three senators. What will some other members who have not said, where will they come down?

But at the moment, Republican leadership is very confident in the aftermath of Bill Cassidy's vote to support him going forward, that potentially that he could get confirmed, maybe once again, seeing Vice President J. D. Vance do something that is very rare in American history, which is to break a tie in the Senate to confirm a Cabinet nominee, we'll see if we get to that point.

But at the moment, Bill Cassidy's decision to back this nominee, a huge one, one that advances this controversial nomination to the Senate floor and this divided committee, all Democrats voting against this, raising serious concerns about RFK Jr. For the moment, Bill Cassidy's concerns have been alleviated, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Hey, Manu, I'm hoping you can shed some light just kind of on what it was like in the room, around the room right now. I was trying to make the point right after the vote, it is very rare that we go into something like this and it's a jump ball. We have no idea which way it's going to go. It's all on one senator. I can think maybe one or two times in the 15 years I've covered Capitol Hill where it's been like that. What was the sense of things?

RAJU: Yes, it was unclear. I mean, look, it was so -- perhaps for one reason, one telling sign of how the serious Republican leadership was taken this moment. John Thune, the Senate majority leader, came to witness what was happening inside the room himself. He would have to make a decision on how to proceed if, ultimately, Cassidy broke ranks and voted against this nomination. He had said that he would be unlikely to try to advance a nomination if a committee decided to vote against any cabinet nominee from going to the floor. So, there was a keen interest among top Republican leaders about what ultimately would go down here.

But no question about it, a lot of drama in this room. Typically, you're right. We know how members will come down. But Bill Cassidy was struggling. I mean, even as last night, I asked him repeatedly about how he was coming viewing this. He had not made a decision as of last night. He said he had more conversations into this morning. So, we'll see how much his own political future played into this as well.

Of course, he faces a primary threat in 2026. He already has angered the MAGA right with his vote to convict Donald Trump in the second impeachment trial. We'll see if that weighed in on any of that. He does not want to weigh in on what his ultimate calculation was, but whatever assurance he got was enough to get him to yes, which is why Republican leadership and the White House breathing a lot easier now that perhaps the most controversial pick, cabinet pick, clearing a major hurdle and potentially on his way to confirmation by next week.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's a huge win. Also fascinating, Senate majority leader actually showing up to the vote itself or around the hearing room as it was ongoing. Manu, stick with me. I want to turn to you now, Sanjay Gupta. Because, look, put the whip counts and the politics and the, kind of, where the conference dynamics are aside, Cassidy -- Manu detailed the struggle that he'd had so well. We saw it publicly play out, certainly privately we've reported on it.

He says in his statement that he was given serious commitments related to Robert F. Kennedy Jr. from a policy perspective, we don't know what those are. He's supposed to lay them out later. What are the types of things given the concerns you heard him talk about on both a programmatic side, but also on vaccine specifically do you -- would you want committed to by Robert Kennedy?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what this seems to have boiled down to watching the hearings with you last week, Phil, was on one side, you have these commitments to make America healthy again, which I think everyone -- just about everyone is supportive of, the idea that we're not very healthy, especially given the amount of money that we spend.

On the other side was these conspiracy theories regarding vaccines and autism. And it was, you know, kind of a scale, I think it seemed in Senator Cassidy's mind -- Dr Cassidy's mind. He talked about it specifically, you know, during the hearings. And I just want you to listen to a little bit of how he framed it last week.

[10:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): That is why I've been struggling with your nomination. There are issues we are -- man, ultra-processed food, obesity, we are simpatico. We're completely aligned. And as someone who has discussed immunizations with thousands of people, I understand that mothers want reassurance that the vaccine their child is receiving is necessary, safe, and effective. We agree on that point, the two of us, but we've approached it differently. And I think I can say that I've approached it using the preponderance of evidence to reassure, and you've approached using selected evidence to cast doubt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DR. GUPTA: So, I got to tell you, Phil, I doubt that there was any sort of concessions made with regard to vaccines and autism in those private discussions. Just again, from hearing what senator -- what Robert Kennedy was saying during the hearings, he wasn't conciliatory in the sense that saying, hey, look, I'm willing to change my mind. He did say, show me the studies. But again, the studies have been there. So, he's seen the studies and he hasn't changed his mind. So, I'm not sure what would.

So, I don't know what the policy promises were -- that were made to Senator Cassidy, but I think it was on this side of the equation, on the make America healthy again side of the equation in terms of hopefully reducing costs. I mean, if you look at the cost of healthcare in this country, $4.9 trillion is spent on healthcare, and we have some of the worst results overall in the developed world in terms of mortality and chronic disease and things like that. And the numbers have just been going up, 7.5 percent increase.

So, over $14, 000 per citizen is spent on healthcare. That is an area that I think everyone agrees needs to come down. And we are very sick. I mean, you know, we have some of the highest levels of chronic conditions, two or more chronic conditions, 30 percent of Americans have that. So, these are probably the areas where they found consensus. Phil, my guess is not around vaccines and autism. I think Senator Cassidy was willing to let that go.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's the balance that we've seen throughout this nomination process of on the make America healthy again element of things. There's a lot of agreement, maybe not in the specific details, but not only is there a movement behind it, it's very popular, but also doctors like yourself making clear there are valid points here, and then on the vaccines and how that kind of weighs out.

I should also note, Senator Cassidy, when he was Dr. Cassidy, oversaw a vaccination program for hepatitis B for children in Baton Rouge, over 38,000 people. So, it's not just academic studies with him, it's real-world experience as well. But he is officially a yes. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Manu Raju, appreciate you guys walking us through all this, sharing your perspective. Thank you.

DR. GUPTA: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, still ahead, a CNN exclusive, EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin will join me, live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

MATTINGLY: Vice President J. D. Vance is vowing to finish the cleanup in East Palestine, Ohio from that toxic train derailment that happened two years ago this week. Vance visited the small community yesterday on the anniversary of the disaster.

Now, you'll recall, in 2023, a Norfolk Southern train skidded off the track, sending a million pounds of hazardous chemicals into the soil, water, and air. Now, a senator from Ohio, J. D. Vance, co-sponsored the Bipartisan Railway Safety Act that did not advance in the U.S. Senate, but he seems confident it is still possible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J. D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I do think that is a very viable and a very reasonable goal. I do think that we continue to need to do better at rail safety in this country. And I even talked to the fire chief a little bit. He's got strong views about rail safety, probably how we can make the bill a little bit better, but also how we can make sure that common sense rail safety makes its way into our public laws.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, joining the vice president on that trip was the new head of the EPA. Lee Zeldin, appreciate your time this morning joining us just a few weeks after you started at the agency.

I guess to start with on the policy side of things, what we were talking about, what Vance was referring to there is a legislative response that he worked in a bipartisan capacity to try and get across in the last Congress. There was also a request from the governor back then, but also, we heard from East Palestine residents yesterday on this show about the EPA declaring a public health emergency. Vance was asked about that yesterday. He said, I'm not totally sure it would be as relevant as it was 18 months ago, but that's within your authority. Is that something you're considering?

LEE ZELDIN, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: Well, first Vice President Vance's point should be well taken. It has been 18 plus months since that particular aspect of the conversation was really heating up. We're coming near the end of cleaning up contaminated soil. EPA has led an effort to get rid of 220,000 tons so far. Cleaning up the water. There's been 70 million gallons of water that have been treated.

So, it's something that, as you pointed out, affects the land, the air, the water. And we're hopefully nearing the end of this process. Hopefully, the contamination of the soil is something that can be by sometime this spring. That's the goal. There's also a lot of litigation that is going on right now with the company. And you have different class action suits, settlements with the local government, settlements with people.

What's very important is that long-term, there is health monitoring and environmental monitoring for many years to come. And that we're also helping the economy of East Palestine be able to recover as well.

Getting back to the heart of your question of whether or not there's a health emergency that is needed, that is not something that I've been advised of since I was just sworn in just less than a week ago, but it's certainly all over our radar after hearing that question yesterday.

MATTINGLY: What else did the community ask for the EPA to do? Obviously, the EPA has been on the ground I think hundreds if not more EPA and EPA aligned officials as part of this cleanup. What do you want to change from what was happening before you came in?

ZELDIN: First, we have to finish the cleanup. This has to get done urgently. There is a goal currently to have this done by this spring. I would love to see that deadline met. The people of East Palestine deserve it. And we don't want to have to see shifting deadlines and dates long into the future.

What we do need to see long into the future, as I had just referenced, is that health and environmental monitoring for people to feel confident that they're not going to be abandoned years to come. Vice President Vance has taken this effort quite personally. It was the first real high-profile incident that took place after he was sworn in as the junior senator from Ohio. He led. He was on the ground.

And when I was sworn in, I heard from the vice president immediately saying, your first trip, you're coming with me to East Palestine. This is something that is very important to him. And in turn, it's going to be very important to the EPA. Most important, to the heart of that last question you asked, is just getting this cleanup done urgently.

MATTINGLY: Yes, I think it was three weeks after then-Senator Vance was sworn in the U.S. Senate when he got that phone call, had been working on it throughout his time in the chamber. I want to step back -- and sorry for saying weeks all the time, it's kind of meshing together at this point in a very a very accelerated administration, our first couple weeks of the administration.

[10:45:00]

Your role is critical to the president's kind of broader agenda, particularly on energy, climate, environment, conservation, permitting issues as well. When you look at the workforce that you're coming over the top of from the last administration, very different policy priorities from the last administration, how do you see this playing out? ZELDIN: I think it's important for our team to be showing up. I was just briefed yesterday that on Mondays and Fridays the EPA headquarters was on -- was averaging about 5 to 8 percent capacity. I mean, think about how low that number is. We need people in the office collaborating, working together. We need to be productive and efficient.

As far as ramping up efforts on the ground, right now in Los Angeles, EPA has just launched what is the largest wildfire cleanup in the history of the EPA. As of today, the last number that I got, we have over 1,100 people in the field cleaning up hazardous materials. We're still finishing up in Western North Carolina.

But I think it's very important, Phil, that we have our team here in headquarters and in the regions showing up, working hard, and making the American public proud.

MATTINGLY: And that's been certainly a push by the administration writ large as well. You reported shortly after being sworn in that every single agency, every single cabinet official has a mandate to have a workforce reduction. Obviously, efficiency and leaning out of the government has been a pretty significant focal point of this administration.

Right around the same time, I think more than a thousand employees in your workforce who had been working a year or less at EPA got e-mails telling them because they were on that probationary period, they could be fired at any time. What is the plan and what was the point of that e-mail?

ZELDIN: Well, first off, that e-mail, which I believe went to around 1,700 or so employees were two people who were probationary employees, just restating what that means. What we're seeing right now is that a lot of employees are taking the fork in the road. That is, they can choose to leave the federal government and get paid through the end of September.

We just instituted a voluntary early retirement opportunity for people, which is being warmly received from a number of employees who are looking for that option. And it's important for us to just be efficient and productive. We have core statutory requirements that are in law that EPA needs to do exceptionally. It's important that we're able to execute on our mission, which is protecting human health and the environment.

And as I laid out this morning in announcing an initiative to power the Great American Comeback, I think it's important that while executing that first pillar of pursuing clean, safe, healthy air, land, water that we are looking at what's in our jurisdiction to help unleash energy dominance to make America the A.I. capital of the world, to have permitting reform and to bring back American auto jobs. And that's just a sample of some of what we could do to be part of a solution because the American public spoke last November that they have great concern over economic issues to be able to pursue their American dream, and that's something we're sensitive to. MATTINGLY: You mentioned the fork in the road notification that came from the Office of Personnel Management kind of echoing an e-mail that Elon Musk sent to Twitter -- then-Twitter employees back in 2022. Do you have a DOGE team? I think every agency is supposed to have a DOGE team as laid out by the executive order. Are they in your building right now? Are you working with them?

ZELDIN: So, I'm hoping to have a meeting with someone either today or tomorrow. Again, I was just sworn in late Wednesday night. I have had phone conversations with individuals involved in DOGE, and I have actually been greatly encouraged by how productive those calls have been. It's clear that they want to assist us. They're not looking to come into the building and not work with us.

If they have any recommendations for efficiencies with regards to grants that maybe went out the door and something was done wrong, something wasn't done following the law, I want to hear that.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

ZELDIN: There was something during the transition period where a video came out where someone with the EPA, a political appointee in the last administration, was talking about how they were rushing to get billions of dollars out the door by Inauguration Day. And they -- he was referring to it as tossing gold bars off the Titanic. That motivates me to want to come in and be able to wrap my hands around all of the money that has gone out, is going out, will go out, and to make sure that we're being good stewards of tax dollars. If DOGE wants to help with that, personnel and more, so we can do a better job, I'm all for it.

[10:50:00]

MATTINGLY: I think part of the reason why I ask is because your approach, you know, I was struck by, and this tracks with how I knew you operated on Capitol Hill as well, making very clear that how important it was for the actions you took as administrator to have a level of durability, right? Because if you took a wrong turn, if you cut a corner, they would immediately be challenged in court, and that would be problematic in terms of rolling back rulemakings, regulatory reform, things of that nature, which seems to be the complete opposite of what we've seen the DOGE operation do in GSA and OPM, kind of in the places that they've been up to this point. Does that concern you?

ZELDIN: Listen, my interaction with DOGE so far has been one that I've only been encouraged by. I care greatly -- as you pointed out, it's important to follow the rule of law. And we have tens of billions of dollars coming through the EPA in recent years and there's a lot of money going through the EPA going forward. And I just -- I want to be a good steward of tax dollars. And I want to be able to work with anyone to help identify any type of efficiencies.

I can't speak to how the interactions are going elsewhere. I can only speak from my own personal experience, and I have found DOGE to be in a position where they want to offer recommendations, they want to support us, they want to help us do a good job. I'm all for that. MATTINGLY: EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin, I said weeks, I think it's been days, on the job since you've been sworn in, appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much.

ZELDIN: Thanks, Phil.

MATTINGLY: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00]

MATTINGLY: A brass band named Soul Rebels jokes about a dad bod and a question about Travis Kelce popping the question to Taylor Swift the opening night of the Super Bowl. Well, it had it all. CNN's Coy Wire was there. Coy, what do we got?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: I did not know about that hard hitting news. Good to see you, Phil. Welcome to New Orleans. The iconic Jackson Square here. It was an incredible opening night. If this Super Bowl is going to be anything like the last time these two teams met in the Super Bowl two seasons ago, we're in for quite the ride.

That game was two points shy of being the highest Super Bowl -- highest scoring Super Bowl ever. Now, the Eagles, they are led by their quarterback, Jalen Hurts, who was phenomenal in that game. He set a Super Bowl record for a quarterback by rushing for three touchdowns. Now, he has MVP candidate, running back Saquon Barkley on his side this time. And their defense is playing lights out. So, look out.

The Chiefs, of course, they're led by quarterback Patrick Mahomes. He's putting together one of the best stretches we've seen by any quarterback in NFL history. Five Super Bowls in seven seasons. Three of them wins. We caught up with some of the stars last night to ask them about this big moment. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAQUON BARKLEY, PHILADELPHIA EAGLES RUNNING BACK: You just got to take it all in. This is part of it. You got to enjoy it. So, I'm happy to be here. Happy to have conversations with you guys. At the same time, you know, it's a business and you stay locked in. But today, you enjoy.

PATRICK MAHOMES, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS QUARTERBACK: It kind of brings you closer together when people are rooting against you. You just kind of -- if you come a tighter brotherhood in that locker room and you know that we're doing it the right way and we can bring it -- bring ourselves together, have teased kingdom (ph) with us and go out there and try to win the game against everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: Now, Phil, there are festivities all week long and we found out there are some surprises too. Yesterday, we caught up with New Orleans Saints all stud linebacker Demario Davis and his wife Tamela, who surprised a nurse, a clinical nurse supervisor at universe -- at the university's hospitals here in New Orleans, Stevey Kells. She's been living in New Orleans for 30 years. She helped treat 26 patients about a month ago on that tragic terror attack that took place in the early hours of New Year's Day. Here's some of that moment and the reflection on what it was like to surprise Stevey with some tickets to the Super Bowl.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAMELA DAVIS, CHEF, AUTHOR: I love doing things like that. I get super excited, almost like I'm winning. I don't know, how do you feel?

DEMARIO DAVIS, NEW ORLEANS SAINTS LINEBACKER: It was unreal. It's a resilient city and that response began with the first responders, those who were on the scene and those who were -- you know, had to react quickly and she was there. So, it means a lot. And so, to be able to give back to somebody who's given so much, it was awesome. That's what it's all about.

T. DAVIS: That's what it's all about. For sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: Phil, Demario Davis, his wife, Tamela, they are like saints in this city of the New Orleans Saints, changing lives with their devoted Dreamers Foundation and their partners, Ashley. Stevey was in shock. It kind of hit her later when she found out she's going to the Super Bowl. She said, I'm a Kansas City Chiefs fan. I can't wait to call my boyfriend. He's not going to believe this. So, an incredible moment here to kick these festivities off here in New Orleans.

MATTINGLY: I love that story. Keep them coming, Coy. Coy Wire, thanks so much.

Well, coming up, price surge at Waffle House. Is the hike on eggs there just the tip of the iceberg? We'll have more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00]