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Super Bowl Set to Kick Off; Outrage Growing Over Elon Musk's Actions?. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired February 07, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:31:05]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now, we are launching a new series on this show called Your Voice."

Every week, we will check in with talk radio hosts across the country to hear what Americans are thinking and saying about what's going on here in Washington. We're getting out of the Washington bubble.

Today, we're joined by progressive talk show host Thom Hartmann in Portland, Oregon and center-right talk show host Jeff Angelo in Des Moines, Iowa.

I'm so glad you all are both here and we're doing this. I think it's so important to sort of take the pulse of the country. And you all listen and hear what people have to say every single day for your job.

So, Thom, I want to kick it off with you. What are your listeners saying about these first few weeks of President Trump's second term and Elon Musk's role in it?

THOM HARTMANN, HOST, "THE THOM HARTMANN PROGRAM": I think one of the biggest things, Pamela -- and thanks for having us -- is, why?

Obviously, we see what's going on, but is this being done to -- are they trying to gut our government in order to fund tax cuts for billionaires? Are they doing this as a way of Trump paying back Elon Musk for the $270 million that made him president?

I mean, Tesla was being investigated by the Justice Department. Starlink startling was being investigated by USAID. That got shut down. SpaceX was being investigated by the head of the FAA. He got fired. Or are they doing this to help Putin and Xi?

I mean, they're the major beneficiaries of shutting down USAID. So there's just a lot of confusion and concern.

BROWN: So these are the questions your listeners are asking. They're asking, why is Elon Musk doing this? Is there something behind this other than just government efficiency?

HARTMANN: Yes.

BROWN: There hasn't been -- there -- frankly, I mean, for our viewers, we haven't been getting much transparency at all. A lot of the -- what we know is coming from reporting.

Jeff, I'm curious, your take. As I said, you're center-right. I imagine a lot of your listeners are. A lot of people calling in are. Are they as worried about how much power Elon Musk wields here in Washington?

JEFF ANGELO, HOST, "THE WHO MORNING SHOW WITH JEFF ANGELO": No, what they're basically focused on is outcome and results.

They know Iowa elected Trump by an overwhelming margin. And he did campaign side by side with Elon Musk and say he was going to work with him to make government more efficient. So what the listeners are focused on is not so much who the people are, but exactly where their money is going. What's it being spent for? How many employees do we have in the government? Do we need that much -- that many employees?

So it's very outcome-based on my end and overall focusing on, is government as efficient as it could be? Is it serving the people as well as it could be?

BROWN: And so have they had any reaction yet to some of what's come out about where their money is going?

ANGELO: Yes, obviously, if you are the Trump administration or you're the Republicans in general, what you do is you spotlight the most egregious examples.

You also talk about -- of course, Iowa's home to Senator Joni Ernst, who's part of the DOGE Caucus in the U.S. Senate, and she's spotlighting federal employees who have been working from home and are not in their offices.

And for working-class people, they're asking like, well, I have to go back to the office. What's going on? Why are these taxpayer funded jobs, why don't they require their employees to go back to the office? So there are a lot of questions.

And if you focus on what makes people annoyed about how their taxpayer dollars are being used, I think that's a winning strategy for the Republicans.

BROWN: So, Thom, I'm going to bring you in on this conversation.

Just overall, there has just been this onslaught of news lately since President Trump took office. It's hard to keep up. Are your listeners overwhelmed? What are they saying about this?

HARTMANN: Yes, no doubt about it, and very concerned that Elon Musk and his merry band of teenagers and 20-somethings now have their Social Security numbers, have all of their medical records from Medicare, Medicaid, have their banking account information.

[11:35:09]

I mean, how is this information being used? Who's it being shared with? They apparently now have the names of all of our spies, for example. Again, is this being fed to Putin and Xi? Is it being handled in a way that's...

BROWN: The more recent -- yes, those who were recently hired by the CIA, I believe, in the last couple of years. That list was e-mailed.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Yes, right, the federal payroll, OK.

HARTMANN: So, I think there's a real concern here.

BROWN: And I wonder, Thom, are you getting any of that concern at all from your listeners about, oh, they have all this information, they're unelected, what are they going to do with this information? Have you heard that at all?

HARTMANN: I'm getting a lot of calls from people. First off, I'm getting -- because we're on SiriusXM, I'm getting calls from -- in fact, I have gotten calls from Iowa, saying, we produce a lot of the agricultural goods that USAID was shipping to starving people overseas, and we have got farmers who are freaked out, number one.

I'm also getting calls from people concerned. I mean, like, they're regularly checking their Social Security or Medicare accounts to see if they're going to get bounced out or people on Medicaid. It's -- there's just a general concern broadly that our government does an awful lot for us.

It's roughly 20 percent of our entire economy, and it's being gutted very, very rapidly. Nobody's sure exactly why or exactly how, and for sure there's a big concern about whether this is even legal.

BROWN: Well, so Jeff, are you getting any of those concerns from your listeners just about that these unelected people having all this access and how these services and programs may no longer be available to some of the people who listen to you?

And, frankly, I mean, there's a lot of government jobs, federal government jobs all across the country, including in Iowa. I'm just wondering if those concerns are coming into you at all.

ANGELO: No, not really, and I think because people get tired after a while of the focus in politics on personality. Well, I don't like this person and this person may be corrupt.

And, in the end, there's a lot of frustration over how unaccountable Washington, D.C., has been in regard to spending our tax dollars. Exactly what is it being used for? Senator Joni Ernst has been on the program talking to me and talking to the listeners about that USAID threatened to sue her and her staff when she tried to pursue how the money was being used.

So the focus for my listeners has been on accountability. How is the money being spent? Is it being spent on something and items and programs that they favor? Are these things that they are against? Is the government being transparent about how it's spending that money? Do we need all of these employees in the modern technological age in

which we live? A lot of offices are becoming more efficient, downsizing. We don't like it, but the federal government probably needs to do that as well. So we're -- this is a more of outcome-based discussion for my listeners than it is focusing on the people that are involved.

BROWN: Thank you both. I could do this all hour. And I didn't even get to the question of prices at the grocery store and the concerns about that. But we're going to do that next week.

We will have -- we will carry on that conversation next week. Thank you both, Thom and Jeff, we do appreciate it.

HARTMANN: Thanks, Pamela.

ANGELO: Thank you so much.

BROWN: Coming up next, we're bringing on political heavyweights Van Jones and David Axelrod. They were listening to that conversation.

We want their take on what they just heard on "Your Voice" and how that squares with what they're hearing from inside D.C.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:42:27]

BROWN: After weeks of struggling over the best way forward in the new Trump era, Democrats appear to have a target that they can all rally against, Elon Musk.

The party is trying to coordinate rallies and proposing legislation against what they're calling an unelected billionaire. And this comes as Musk and his so-called Department of Government Efficiency have worked to dismantle global aid, gain access to government payment systems, and talk federal workers out of their jobs.

So let's discuss more now with CNN senior political commentators David Axelrod and Van Jones.

Van, I just want to start with you. You were listening to that conversation from the radio hosts. What do you think about how Americans are viewing all of this from the right and the left?

VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, it's a tale of two countries. Some people are cheerleading. Somebody's finally doing something. The government's terrible. It's been up to all these abuses. And somebody's finally going in there to do something.

The problem is, who is doing it and why are they doing it and how are they doing it does not hold up under scrutiny. And I think for Democrats, who are more suspicious in the first place, this is a very disturbing set of moves on the part of Elon Musk. OPM controls all the people. He's got direct access to all the people

in the federal government. Treasury controls all the money. He's got direct access to that. And he's got direct access, not through anyone who's been vetted, not through any -- not through normal officials, through a bunch of kids whose only qualification is that they're loyal to Elon Musk.

This is not a good way forward. Even if you agree with the policy agenda of the Trump administration, which I don't, but many do, doing it this way, where you essentially have an inside job takeover of unvetted, unqualified people, sets a very dangerous precedent.

If you have President AOC in four years doing the same thing with a bunch of young progressives, I think people on the right would be in the streets, in the streets. So this is a very disturbing development.

And I think people on the right are cheerleading because they want the policy outcomes. They're not thinking about what it does to the American system of government permanently.

BROWN: I want to bring you in on this, David. And we're going to get back to the point you just made. But what do you think, David? You heard from the radio host in Iowa, who said, look, my listeners are really focused on the outcome here, and they're liking what they're seeing so far.

And you actually think, from what I read, some of the stuff that's been done in terms of USAID, it sort of -- it could be a losing issue for Democrats to maybe step in on, right?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, let me make what I think clear on that.

[11:45:02]

I am appalled by what's happened at USAID. And I think it's not just a blow to humanitarian causes and democratic causes around the world, but it's a stupid move for our own national security, and it creates a tremendous opening for China and Russia and foes of our country who want to fill the breach that we leave in a lurch here.

But I was listening to, I guess his name was Jeff, the guy from Iowa.

BROWN: Jeff from Iowa.

AXELROD: And he said people, they hear about all this spending and there's no transparency and they want more transparency.

That is understandable, but there also is no transparency about how this money's being cut. And it is more radical than any spending that I have seen. Elon Musk and his band of musketeers who are rampaging through government know -- they know the price of everything and the cost of nothing.

And they're making cuts indiscriminately without evaluating what the impacts of those are. So when we talk about outcomes, we may not know the outcomes right away, but those outcomes may be felt in people's lives. And, ultimately, the people who are out there in our country are living their lives every day, and they will evaluate ultimately how their lives are affected by these things.

And it could be profoundly bad because of the reckless and careless and unaccountable way that is being done right now.

BROWN: But, if you could quickly, David, to follow up with you -- then I will get to you, Van -- I think there's a real question about where is the opposition from the Democrats, the sort of organized opposition messaging from the Democrats that you would typically see?

Do you feel like they're missing a boat right now, or what do you think?

AXELROD: Well, you know what? I think that there is -- there's a challenge in that they are flooding the zone and doing so many things at once that it's like sensory overload and where do you go and what do you do?

But there's a larger issue that I think unifies all of this, which is this notion of unaccountability, of defiance of the law, of shredding constitutional separations of power. So, there's no check. There's no check on Elon Musk. There's no check on what Trump is doing.

And Van is right. The thing that people out there, whether they support Trump or not, should consider is, they may love what Donald Trump wants to do or is doing. The question is, what about the next president, if you shred all of these sources of accountability, if you take -- if -- to borrow a phrase from Elon Musk, if you put the First Amendment -- the first -- Article I of the Constitution that guarantees Congress certain rights through a wood chipper, what happens when the next president comes?

And it may not be someone who you have that kind of faith in. It's very -- it's very, very dangerous. I think one other point, Pam, if I can quickly, while all of this was going on, there was a four-hour meeting in the White House yesterday about how to cut taxes by some vast sum, which will advantage the Elon Musks of the world and what they need to cut to make that work.

And things like Medicaid were on the chopping block. We have no visibility into that either.

BROWN: Right. I think that's the...

AXELROD: And when those things start happening, I think the outcomes of that are going to be profoundly bad and people will recognize that very, very quickly.

BROWN: Yes, we shall see.

Van Jones, really quick to you, because you were the target, right, when you worked for President Obama. You were a target from the right for your job as sort of an adviser. And I'm just wondering what your perspective is on this, because you resigned after what you called a smear campaign against you.

So what do you make of the reaction to Musk now?

JONES: I'm not quite sure how those two things relate to each other, but what I will say is that...

BROWN: Well, I think it's -- well, I will tell you how, because you're seeing the reaction right now of people on the right who are backing up Elon Musk. He's unelected. And he is saying -- they're saying, oh, this is great what he's doing, right? And he's in the agencies.

But when you were in the role that you were in back then, they were making all kinds of hay -- and I believe we actually have sound -- about you being an unelected adviser. That's the point.

JONES: Yes.

Well, I -- it seems like sometimes these things that are political seem like they're kind of political.

(LAUGHTER)

JONES: So, yes, when Obama was in office, they went after the advisers, called us czars, et cetera, and made a bunch of hay about that.

But what I think is going on here is a little bit different, in that I was just a kid off the streets of Oakland that Axelrod and other people gave a chance to. Elon Musk is a billionaire who brought in his own shock troops, which is something that I was lucky to have an intern. I had a good intern, but I was lucky to have an intern.

[11:50:02]

So what I would say is this. Google some terms. Dark Enlightenment is a term I would Google. This is not -- there's a philosophy behind this that is very, very scary. Google NRx. This is not a fascist movement. People talk about this is a fascist takeover. It's not.

It's a neo-reactionary takeover. That's a special term, neo- reactionary, NRx.

BROWN: Right.

JONES: There's a movement in Silicon Valley of billionaires who have a very coherent philosophy that is about dictatorship. They want a CEO monarch to run the country. They do not believe in democracy.

So it's not just Elon Musk. There's a whole coterie of billionaires that have a philosophy called neo-reactionary, called NRx, and they are implementing a plan. And so I want people to understand, this is not the same as Obama having some czars they didn't like. This is billionaires with a plan. Google the term Dark Enlightenment. Google the term NRx. This is a much more serious problem.

BROWN: Van Jones, David Axelrod, thank you so much. Hope you have a great weekend.

We will be right back.

AXELROD: Thanks, Pam.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:55:30]

BROWN: In just two days, Super Bowl LIX kicks off in New Orleans.

CNN's Coy Wire joins us now from New Orleans.

What are you watching for, Coy?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: I am watching for excitement, for hype, entertainment. This is the NFL Fan Experience here.

People from all over the country around the world come here. They can run the 40. They can do bench press. I might see if I still got it later, Pam.

But the other thing they got to do last night was watch the NFL Honors, where they named all sorts of awards, one of them NFL MVP, and the winner this year, Josh Allen, the all-world quarterback for the Buffalo Bills. He went from a zero star recruit in high school, Pam, meaning nobody wanted him, to now the league's MVP, 27 first-place votes.

The runner-up, Lamar Jackson, the superstar quarterback for the Ravens, had 23 first-place votes. It was the closest final vote in nearly a decade. He thanked his mom and dad, who were in tears over that moment. He thanked them for all their sacrifice of time and money to help their son achieve his dream.

So we have a lot more coming up all week long from here, especially the NFL Experience. I got to eat some beignets. I got to eat some gumbo. I got to eat some etouffee. I got to eat, eat, eat...

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Love it.

WIRE: ... and soak it all in here in New Orleans, Pamela.

BROWN: Eat some for me too. I'm so jealous I'm not down there with you eating all that.

Coy Wire in New Orleans, thank you.

And thank you all for joining us. I'm Pamela Brown. Follow me on Instagram, TikTok and X @PamelaBrownCNN.

Stay with us. "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts after a short break.