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CNN International: Trump's 25 Percent Tariffs on Steel and Aluminum Imports; Growing Legal Challenges Against Trump Admin.; Trump Signing a Flurry of Executive Orders. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired February 10, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: -- 25 to 40 degrees below average for this time of year. Phil.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Derek Van Dam, thanks so much. You can follow the show on X, @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts.
The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: -- sparking protests in Tel Aviv. Plus, we're going to hear from the Super Bowl MVP and look back on Kendrick Lamar's star-studded halftime show.
But first, breaking news. U.S. President Donald Trump has just announced a blanket 25 percent tariffs on steel and aluminum coming into the United States. And he says further reciprocal tariffs on, quote, "every country are coming later this week." All of these as new Chinese retaliatory tariffs against the U.S. take place.
I want to bring in Stephen Collinson now. And I want to start with these tariffs, Stephen. I mean, look, the first few weeks of the Trump administration, among many things, I think tariffs could be among the main definitions of it, or at least threats of them. Why the Trump obsession with it?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Well, the president doesn't believe in global free trade, at least as it's constituted now. He sees every dispute or question economically through a prism of, is the United States winning or losing?
And despite all the evidence of economists who say that tariffs end up costing U.S. consumers more, and don't forget Trump was elected partly to lower prices, he believes tariffs are a tool, not just of economic policy but of foreign policy, to get ahead of America's rivals, and he includes America's friends in that.
He's in the Oval Office right now. He just signed those tariffs, an executive order, and he specifically singled out Canada, basically saying, we don't need Canadian steel. We will tariff their steel by 25 percent, and that will result in the relaunch of the American steel industry. So, tariffs, for the present, are very much a win lose proposition for the United States, and he sees it as a way of wielding the mighty U.S. economy over smaller trade partners.
JIMENEZ: And we saw it even in trying to convince Mexico and Canada to strengthen border restrictions, I guess you could call them, even though many of them were already in place prior to this deal making.
Outside of tariffs themselves, I want to also talk about the relationship between Donald Trump and Elon Musk, because that also remains a fascinating one, especially as it seems Musk still has Trump's blessing as he slashes government agencies, some courts have stepped in. But what does Trump get politically out of that relationship and out of Musk's work?
COLLINSON: Well, what he got politically to start with was several hundred million dollars of campaign financing for himself and Republicans in November's election. I think by letting Musk loose inside the federal government, what he's done is he's created a bunch of swinging cuts that perhaps more conventional government operator would never have come up with.
So, he's enhancing his own ability to say that he is the head of this very disruptive government, and he's got someone who mirrors himself in many ways. He doesn't really accept rules. He sees, in many cases, the law as something that should not constrain him in the United States and around the world as it pertains to his business practice. And he, like Trump, has an interest in being seen as an antiestablishment disruptor.
A lot of people are saying that they believe that two such volatile characters can't exist together. But right now, I think Musk is serving Trump's purposes and Trump is serving Musk's purposes. And don't forget that, as the richest man in the world, he has a great deal of capacity to help Republicans in the midterm elections, which will be taking place in a year in November. And that is something that the Republicans really want to keep on side.
So, there are reasons why Trump and Musk haven't broken up. And I think there are good reasons. They both have very strong interests in not alienating the other. It doesn't mean it won't happen, because both of their histories suggest that long-term relationships and friendships often get squandered in the heat of political and business battle.
JIMENEZ: We will see. An interesting relationship to watch nonetheless, even through all this disruption. Stephen Collinson, really appreciate the time and perspective.
COLLINSON: Thanks.
[18:05:00]
For more on the impact of President Trump's new tariffs, I want to bring in CNN Economics and Political Commentator Catherine Rampell. She's also an opinion columnist for The Washington Post. Good to see you.
So, let's start with the economics of this, because look, Canada and Mexico, for example, they were going to get hit with punitive tariffs, but then those were paused over Trump's seemingly -- seeming satisfaction, I guess, with a lot of what was already in place. But then, if there are these across-the-board tariffs, Mexico and Canada still get hit, what is the economic strategy to being so tariff focused here?
CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND OPINION COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: I wish I knew. This is exactly what Trump did last time around. As you may recall, Trump renegotiated NAFTA, to use his phrasing at the time. He negotiated a new trade deal, the USMCA, with Canada, with Mexico, and yet, still placed them under steel and aluminum tariffs, which he eventually pulled back on.
But look, supply chains across North American borders are extremely integrated, whether you're talking about steel or automobiles or petroleum products for that matter. And this will be very painful, not only for our trading partners, for Canada and Mexico, amongst others, but it will be painful for American companies that purchase steel.
Again, the last time around that Trump did this, there was a big delta, a big gap between how much, you know, sort of typical steel products cost in the United States versus in other countries, in Europe and in Asia and elsewhere. And because of that, that meant auto manufacturers, appliance manufacturers, basically, any downstream company that purchased steel was at a disadvantage. So, it's really hard for me to understand what the objective is here if you look at the actual data.
JIMENEZ: And you know, politically -- so, the economics are one thing. Politically, there does seem to be some sort of strategy here, at least what they believe is their strategy to project strength, whatever it might be in whatever sector. But what is the political strategy or the political calculus? I mean, can you get by economically by just projecting strength and fighting for, in theory, a better deal with some of your allies?
RAMPELL: If you are a regular voter, I understand why you don't necessarily have the bandwidth or the interest for that matter to pay attention to all of the ins and outs of trade policy and think through, you know, how many downstream firms are there that are affected versus how many firms that are protected and might benefit.
So, you know, if you look at the general polling on tariffs, I don't know if we have any poll -- any new polling specific to this announcement from yesterday, but in general, Americans like the idea of protecting American industry, if they think that's what's going to happen. They like the idea of getting tough with people who are supposedly taking advantage of us. They like the idea of hitting back on China. Those general themes often play quite well.
Now, whether the sort of rhetoric behind those things actually matches the everyday of experience consumers who might have to pay more for an automobile, who might have to pay more for produce coming over the border from Mexico, that's a whole different ballgame. And so, how these things sound initially versus how they are experienced are two completely different things.
JIMENEZ: And we saw in the recent CBS News/YouGov poll that -- I mean, over 60 percent of those polled did not believe the Trump administration was doing enough in terms of lowering prices, even though we've seen, of course, this flurry of macroeconomic trade policy data, however you want to slice it up in ways that might make people's eyes glaze over. Thank you, Catherine Rampell. Really appreciate it.
RAMPELL: Thank you.
JIMENEZ: All right. Also, growing legal challenges against the Trump administration. A federal judge, for the second time, telling the White House to restore federal grant and loan payments, saying freezing the funds is, quote, "likely unconstitutional." And this is the first time a judge has said the new Trump administration didn't follow a court order.
Meanwhile, a judge in New Hampshire has blocked the president's executive order ending birthright citizenship for the children of people who are in the U.S. illegally. This comes after two similar rulings by judges in Washington State and Maryland.
And over the weekend, a court order restricted political appointees from accessing a critical Treasury Department payment system.
Elon Musk, the head of the so-called Department of Government Efficiency, strongly criticized the decision, tweeting, quote, "A corrupt judge protecting corruption. He needs to be impeached now," end quote.
[18:10:00]
And Vice President J. D. Vance tweeted, judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power. CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson joins me now. So, I want to start where the vice president left off there because, look, the Trump administration now being accused of violating a second court order that the administration hasn't reinstated U.S. aid employees who were previously put on leave, as was ordered by the court last week.
But in regards to the vice president's words here, I mean, what is your reaction? Do you worry about that type of rhetoric that is being, I guess, encroached upon by the vice president?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST AND CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: P.A. Omar, you worry about a lot, and I really worry about whether our institutions are going to hold. What do I mean? I mean, that we have in the United States a very robust, right, foundation of how the government supposed to work. The government supposed to work in as much as you have an executive that enforces the law. You have Congress that passes the law, and then you have judges which interpret the constitutionality of the law. And so, the essence of that is to make sure that one branch, right, doesn't become superior to another. They are co-equal branches of government. And so, the rhetoric in terms of, let's talk about Elon Musk, corrupt judges, right, we shouldn't have a narrative that judges are corrupt, though, more simply because they don't espouse views that are consistent with yours or any political party.
Judges are not meant to be politicians. Judges are meant to interpret the law on the facts on the law on the Constitution. And so, you have. Elon Musk saying, oh, corrupt judges. What is it corrupt about holding the executives to the fire?
Last point, Omar, and that's this. And then, you have J. D. Vance talking about the legitimate executive power. Now, technically, that is a true statement, right? It is not for a judge to encroach upon, quote/unquote, "legitimate executive power." In this instance, the argument is, is that it is not legitimate executive power. So, I do worry about the rhetoric.
I worry about this president really trying to just bust all norms and really push the envelope, and we could all push the envelope, but we can't push it to a place that we simply disregard the law. That's what courts are for. Let's see if our institutions, including the highest institution, which is the Supreme Court of the United States will hold and not simply take a political point of view but make decisions predicated only exclusively on the law and the facts.
JIMENEZ: And, Joey, look, on that front, courts are often the counterbalance tension to executive orders or actions for any president. We've seen him with Obama, with President Biden, of course, with President Trump right now as well. But with the pace of executive actions we've seen, I mean, is this just going to be a new reality of the Trump administration in regards to its relationship with the courts?
JACKSON: It's inevitable, Omar. Yes, I do believe that in terms of the pace. Look, the president could sign as many executive orders as he would like, you know, under the guise or legitimate or illegitimate of what his priorities are, right? He's duly elected president of the United States. He certainly is allowed to have his priorities.
What he is not allowed to do is really transcend another really legitimate branch of government. And so, there will be a very robust pace at which this occurs. But we have a system that's designed for that. We've got plenty of lawyers out there to check executive power. We've got plenty members of Congress, right, to hold him account to that, and we've got plenty judges in the system to make a determination as to whether their -- his actions are legit, illegit, constitutional, unconstitutional.
But this dizzying pace, I think, is going to be our new reality because everything the president does, which people think is offending our notion of constitutionality, our notion of justice, our notion of law will be challenged and it will be up to our institutions, primarily the judges, judicial branch and the United States Supreme Court to determine whether things, again, based on the law and the facts, are legit or illegit.
It shouldn't be whether you have an R on your chest or D on your chest, Republican or Democrat, or an I on your chest, independent, it's about the J, the justice. And that's what our courts are designed to do.
JIMENEZ: And that justice will likely be tested, as we've seen already happen multiple times in just the opening weeks of this administration so far. Joey Jackson, really appreciate the time and perspective.
JACKSON: Thanks, Omar.
JIMENEZ: I want to go now to the White House, where U.S. President Donald Trump has been signing executive orders. Let's take a listen on what's been going on there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Serving as stewards of taxpayer dollars. So, we're recommending zeroing out that program effectively.
[18:15:00]
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We're actually getting rid of a few programs that are just a waste. Just really a waste.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This act has been enforced over the years. Has been devastating to American business opportunities and business competitiveness abroad. We are essentially ordering the Department of Justice to use its prosecutorial discretion in a way to ameliorate the negative effects of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, to allow Americans to do business abroad, and to allow our foreign partners to do business with Americans without fearing unjust prosecution.
TRUMP: And for those of you that know this, it turned out to be -- it sounds good on paper, but in practicality, it's a disaster. It means that if an American goes over to a foreign country and starts doing business over there, legally, legitimately, or otherwise, it's almost a guaranteed investigation, indictment, and nobody wants to do business with the Americans because of it. Nobody wants to do business. They say, look, we can deal with China, they can do whatever they want, we can deal with Russia, we can deal with anybody, and we have a normal life.
You deal with America, the FBI gets over there. They don't investigate death and murders on the street in New York and Los Angeles, they go over and investigate a business guy trying to do business. So, it made it very, very hard from a practical standpoint to make deals. They want to deal with the Americans, but they don't want to be under investigation every time they speak to an American, every time an American makes a phone call to somebody in a different country. It's a disaster for this country.
And the -- I guess it was a Jimmy Carter concept, and it sounds so good, but it's so bad. It hurts the country, and many, many deals are unable to be made because of it. Nobody wants to do business because they don't want to feel like every time they pick up a phone, they're going to jail.
So, we'll sign this. And it takes courage to sign it because you only get bad publicity when you sign it. It sounds so nice, the title is so lovely, but it's an absolutely horror show for America. So, we're signing it because that's what we have to do to make it good.
OK. Thank you. It's an important one. It's going to mean a lot more business for America. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. Next, this is an executive order relating to the use of paper straws. As you've consistently identified, nobody really likes paper straws.
TRUMP: Number one trending. Can you believe it? A paper straw is number one trending for three days or something.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The environmental impact of plastic straws versus paper straws is entirely unclear. This has cost both the government and private industry an absolute ton of money and left consumers all over the country wildly dissatisfied with their straws. So, we're asking at aspects of the federal government, federal departments and agencies to look at their existing procurement processes, and we're asking your domestic policy council to look holistically at this issue to address it, and it really is something that affects ordinary Americans in their everyday lives.
TRUMP: We're going back to plastic straws because these things don't work. I've had it many times. And on occasion, they break, they explode. If something's hot, they don't last very long like a matter of minutes, sometimes a matter of seconds. It's a ridiculous situation. So, we're going back to plastic straws. I think it's OK.
And I don't think that plastics going to affect a shark very much as they're eating -- as they're munching their way through the ocean. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. Next, we have a full and unconditional pardon for former Governor Rod Blagojevich of the State of Illinois.
TRUMP: Good. It's my honor to do it. I've watched him. He was set up by a lot of bad people. Some of the same people that I had to deal with. He wasn't quite as successful, but he had somebody that saw what was going on. I didn't know him, other than I believe he was on "The Apprentice" for a little while. He was just a very nice person. He had a fantastic wife. She fought like hell to get him out. He was given a sentence of, like, 18 years. And it was a sort of a terrible injustice. They just were after him.
They go after a lot of people. These are bad people though, the other side. So, I think he's just a very fine person and this shouldn't have happened and it shouldn't have happened to him and let him have a normal life and let him go out and do what he has to do. So, I'm signing. This is a full part. Rod Blagojevich.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, are you considering him for ambassador to Serbia? [18:20:00]
TRUMP: No, but I would. He's now cleaner than anybody in this room. You got to pardon. He's cleaner than anybody in the room. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. Next. In 2018, you imposed ad valorem duties tariffs on imports of steel at a 25 percent rate. Since that time, a large number of exclusions and exceptions to that tariff rule have been implemented.
Because of the damage to the United States steel industry that those exceptions and exclusions have imposed we're now -- this order would reimpose that 25 percent ad valorem tariff rate on imports of steel and it's presented for your signature now.
TRUMP: OK. Do you understand what that means? Yes. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. This is the beginning of making America rich again.
Mr. Secretary, do you have anything to say? As you know, Howard is Secretary of Commerce, doing a fantastic job. And, what do you have to say about it?
HOWARD LUTNICK, U.S. SECRETARY OF COMMERCE: So, when you imposed the tariffs the first time, you added 120,000 jobs. And since that time, it's been picked away and nicked away and excluded away, and we've lost 107,000 jobs. And remember, these aren't just general jobs. These are steel workers in America. And now, you're going to bring them back. You're going to bring those 120,000 jobs back to America. You are the president who's standing up for the American steel worker, and I am just tremendously impressed and delighted to stand next to you.
TRUMP: So, let me just make a statement and essentially, we're -- this is another way of saying we're doing a 25 percent tariff on steel and aluminum. So, the failed American trade policies have led our once incredible United States steel and aluminum industries. Once incredible, it's once incredible, not now, but they're not bad.
I saved them because of my first term, totally saved them. If I didn't do what I did, I put massive tariffs, not the highest level, but pretty massive tariffs. We got we took in a lot of money and we took in a lot of jobs, but we were being pummeled by both friend and foe alike. Our nation requires steel and aluminum to be made in America, not in foreign lands.
We need to create in order to protect our country's future resurgence of U.S. manufacturing and production, the likes of which has not been seen for many decades. It's time for our great industries to come back to America. I want it back to America. This is the first of many. And you know what I mean by that, we're going to be doing others on other subjects, topics.
Protecting our steel and aluminum industries is a must. And today, I'm simplifying our tariffs and steel and aluminum so that everyone can understand exactly what it means. It's 25 percent without exceptions or exemptions. And that's all countries, no matter where it comes from, all countries. If made in the United States, however, United States of America, there is no tariff. It's zero. So, if it's made in the United States, there is no tariff. All you have to do is make it in the United States. We don't need it from another country.
As an example, Canada. If we make it in the United States, we don't need it to be made in Canada. We'll have the jobs. That's why Canada should be our 51st state. We'll bring back industries, and we'll bring back our jobs, and we'll make America industry great again.
So, essentially, we're putting on a 25 percent tariff, without exception, on all aluminum and all steel. And it's going to mean a lot of businesses are going to be opening in the United States.
Now, we're going to be meeting over the next four-week period, maybe on a weekly basis, and maybe we'll do a couple of them at different times, and maybe together. But we'll be talking about other subjects like cars, we'll be talking about drugs and pharmaceuticals, we'll be discussing chips, and we're going to be doing some other things in addition to that, all which will bring in a lot of jobs into our country.
Cars is going to be a very big one, and a very important one, and America is going to be stronger than it ever was before. OK.
So, are you finished with everything? I think.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have aluminum still.
TRUMP: OK. Let's go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, with respect to aluminum, similarly to steel, since 2018, a large number of exceptions and exemptions have been added into the law. This eliminates all of those and also increases the ad valorem tariff rate from 10 to 25 percent.
[18:25:00]
TRUMP: Mostly, the last part is the most important, right? Would you say?
LUTNICK: Totally.
TRUMP: So, basically this is aluminum, the same thing, no exceptions, no nothing. And it's going to bring our aluminum business back and may go higher. I mean, frankly, it may go higher. And we're going to also be talking about receptive -- we're going to be talking about things over the next three weeks that I think will be amazing for our country, amazing for our jobs, and will bring us to a new level of prosperity.
And I think, frankly, our allies and our enemies all over the world expected this. They really expected it for years. They really expected it sometime during the Biden administration, but they didn't do anything. As you know, I put tariffs on China. We took in hundreds of billions of dollars with those tariffs and Biden wasn't able to get them out. He tried to, but it was too much money. He couldn't do it.
And we're going to be doing a very concise and, you know, a very -- it's going to be good. And I don't think -- if done properly, and we're going to try and do that, we don't want it to hurt other countries, but they've been taking advantage of us for years and years and year. And they've charged us tariffs. Most of them have charged us. Almost everyone, I would say almost without exception. They've charged us and we haven't charged them. And it's time to be reciprocal.
So, very -- you'll be hearing that word a lot, reciprocal. If they charge us, we charge them. If they're at 25, we're at 25. If they're at 10, we're at 10. And if they're much higher than 25, that's what we are too. So, that's having to do with everything. That's not just steel and aluminum. But we'll be discussing that over the next couple of weeks. But we will be looking at chips, and we will be looking at cars, and we're going to be looking at pharmaceuticals, and there'll be a couple of other things also, in addition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, U.S. steel workers have said that they support this move. What would you say to American consumers who are worried that prices will going go up?
TRUMP: That they do support this move?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: U.S. steel makers.
TRUMP: I love the steel makers, that's good. Of course, they do, because they want to save their businesses. U.S. Steel will now be a very valuable company. Anybody that makes steel is going to be great. Anybody that works in big steel is going to be very happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you say to consumers who are worried about prices, sir?
TRUMP: Oh, I don't think you're going to -- no, you're going to ultimately have a price reduction because they're going to make their steel here. There's not going to be any tariff. These foreign companies will move to the United States, will make their steel and aluminum in the United States. Ultimately, it'll be cheaper. But we'll also have jobs. Many, many more jobs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, what are you looking at in terms of tariffs on cars and chips?
TRUMP: Well, we're looking at numbers, and we'll be coming up with a number. But we have -- we make some of the finest cars in the world, and some companies prohibit us from selling those cars in their countries. But they sell us cars, they send cars to us, and we don't do that. We charge nothing or two and a half percent, and they'll be charging a hundred percent. They'll be charging much more than that, if you look at some of them.
So, I think those days are over. But we'll be announcing on other things, such as cars. We got some other things we'll be doing. But the biggest thing is reciprocal. We want tariffs to be fair. If they charge us, we charge them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mild to reciprocal tariffs?
TRUMP: We'll be doing reciprocal over the next, I would say two days, don't you think? Two days, yes, maybe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, the Australia prime minister have said that you are considering the exemption for Australia on steel. Is that correct?
TRUMP: I just spoke to him. Very fine man. And he has a surplus. I mean, we have a surplus with Australia. One of the few. And the reason is they buy a lot of airplanes. They are rather far away and they need lots of airplanes. And we actually have a surplus. It's one of the only countries which we do. And I told him that that's something that we will give great consideration to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And would you consider one for the U.K. as well?
TRUMP: Well, we have a huge deficit with the U.K. Big difference.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't have a deficit with Argentina? Is that country also going to be --
TRUMP: We have a deficit with -- a little deficit with Argentina. Almost with every country. But Australia, because of the airplanes, they buy a lot of airplanes. There's a little bit of a surplus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, if other countries retaliate --
TRUMP: I don't mind.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- what is your plan for example, farmers? Last term you --
TRUMP: Well, the farmers are going to be helped greatly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
TRUMP: Yes. The farmers are going to be helped greatly because they're not going to be dumping everything into our country. This will be a great bill for farmers.
[18:30:00]
And in terms of retaliation, if they retaliate, it's -- as I said, it's reciprocal. So, if they raise it a little bit, then we raise it automatically. So, I don't think it helps for them to retaliate.
But also, remember this, they can't really retaliate because we're the piggy bank. We're the piggy bank. But if we don't do this, we won't be the piggy bank for long. We won't be much of a country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, you see that report, sir, that Hamas is going to stop releasing Israeli hostages. And what was your reaction? TRUMP: I think it's terrible. Look, I looked at the hostages that came in and they're emaciated. It looked like something out of the 1930s. It's an absolute disgrace. And I think they saw the way the world viewed it. And they're looking for a reason not to send more because they're all -- you take a look at that, it looks like it was a concentration camp, which essentially it was. It looks like they came out of the Holocaust. And what a sad thing.
One of them was a young man. Good looking guy. A little bit heavier than perhaps he could have been. And now, he looks like he's not even recognizable. Not even recognizable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this your ideal on risk of falling apart?
TRUMP: Look, I can tell you that those people have been badly hurt, both mentally and physically. I'm talking about the young women that came out also previously. And I think one of the reasons they're doing this is because they're probably sending the best. What you see is probably the best, because they want to send people that look at least healthy, and that's not healthy.
These people have been badly hurt. They've been interviewed by our representatives. They've been interviewed by Israeli representatives, and they're really hurting. They are really hurting, mentally and physically. And I think Hamas is looking at that and say, well, it's not going to get much better than that, because they probably send out their best as a representative. And they've got more to send out, and they probably feel that they can't do that because it's not going to make them look good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- delay that, sir? Should the ceasefire then be off?
TRUMP: Well, I would say this, and I'm going to let that be, because that's Israel's decision, but as far as I'm concerned, if all of the hostages aren't returned by Saturday at 12:00, I think it's an appropriate time, I would say cancel it and all bets are off and let hell break out.
I'd say they ought to be returned by 12:00 on Saturday, and if they're not returned, all of them, not in drips and drabs, not two and one and three and four and two, Saturday at 12:00 and after that, I would say all hell is going to break out.
And I don't think they're going to do it. I think a lot of them are dead. I think a lot of the hostages are dead. I think it's a great human tragedy what's happened, how people can be that mean to do. I mean, the one guy was laughing when a hostage -- he thought his family was alive, found out the family was dead and the -- his captor -- so to speak, his captor started laughing because he thought it was so funny. You know, this is a different group of people.
No, I would say Saturday at 12:00. We want them all back. I'm speaking for myself. Israel can override it. But from myself, Saturday at 12:00, and if they're not, if they're not here, all hell is going to break out. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, (INAUDIBLE) this week and you said that Palestinians would not be guaranteed the right to return to Gaza if the U.S. were to develop it. What did you mean by that?
TRUMP: We've spoken to a lot of Palestinians, they would love to leave Gaza if they could find a place to be. And I've spoken to various leaders of various countries in the not so, you know, distant area from where we're talking about, the Gaza Strip. And I think they were very positive about providing land. What we need is.
And if we could build a nice place for people to live safely, everybody in Gaza would do it. They've been persecuted. They've been spit on. They've been treated like trash. And they would love to get out of Gaza. But until now, they never had an alternative. Now, they have an alternative. And as far as Hamas is concerned, you're seeing the real Hamas now with the hostages.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, on Gaza --
TRUMP: Who are you? From where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Wall Street Journal, sir.
TRUMP: Yes, that's what I thought.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Jordanian leader is coming in to see you.
TRUMP: Yes.
[18:35:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Folks in Jordan have expressed opposition to taking in more Gazans, more Palestinians. How do you want to convince him to do otherwise?
TRUMP: I think he'll take. I mean, I do think he'll take, and I think other countries will take also. They have good hearts. I think they'll take.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, what about the Palestinians who just won't leave? We've spoken -- our team has spoken to millions of Palestinians --
TRUMP: They're all going to leave when they have a place that's a better alternative. When they have a nice place that's safe, they're all going to leave. It's a hell hole right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But how are you so sure? Will the U.S. force them to leave?
TRUMP: You're going to see that they're all going to want to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, (INAUDIBLE) Saturday and you frame the American hostage issue, you're still being held by Hamas right now. TRUMP: Look, you know, who knows? Are they alive? Are they not alive? But I saw the condition. When I saw the condition of the last ones that came out and the women too, everybody. The one woman had her hand blown off because she was trying to stop a bullet being fired at her. OK. What kind of a situation is that? You saw her.
I just think it's time to either you release everybody -- they're not going to be alive right now, based on what I saw over the last two days, they're not going to be alive for long. Saturday at 12:00. And after that, it's going to be a different ballgame.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, when you say all hell is going to break loose, are you speaking about retaliation from the Israelis?
TRUMP: You'll find out. And they'll find out, too. Hamas will find out what I mean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: They're going to find out what I mean. These are sick people. And they'll find out what I mean. Saturday at 12:00.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about the Palestinians from the West Bank? Are they going to be relocated too? What's your position --
TRUMP: Well, right now -- no. Right now, they're there and I assume they want to remain there. It's different. They're there. It's never been like what we're talking about with the Gaza Strip.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
TRUMP: No, no. I have no plans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, regarding the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Democrats, including Elizabeth Warren, have said that by freezing it, it's giving big banks and giant corporations the green light to scapegoat consumers.
TRUMP: Yes, Pocahontas. Pocahontas, the fake -- the faker. You know, that was set up to destroy people. She used that as her little personal agency to go around and destroy people. And she's a fake. Just like she said she was an Indian, and she wasn't an Indian. You have more Indian blood in you than she has. She went to college based on the fact that she was an Indian. She got jobs based on the fact that she was an Indian. She's a fake.
That was set up to destroy some very good people. And it worked. I mean, it worked. A lot of great people -- I'll tell you, before I ever heard the term, people would come up to me in the Midwestern areas that say, sir, I'm being destroyed by them. They use that to destroy people. She's a nasty woman. She's a really nasty woman, despite her phony beer commercial.
Now, we did the right thing. That was a very important thing to get rid of. And it was also a waste. I mean, number one, it was a bad group of people running it, but it was also a waste. If you looked at when she really ran it, wow, that was a vicious group of people. They really destroyed a lot of people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you can confirm it's your goal is to have it totally eliminated, the agency?
TRUMP: I would say yes, because we're trying to get rid of waste, fraud, and abuse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's next?
TRUMP: And didn't I hear that somebody made like $38 million or something running a little agency? What was her name? What was her name? And what did she do? And what was that all about? All the money that she made? Does anybody know? OK.
Yes, Brian, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good to see you. The latest CBS poll has your approval ratings at an all-time high, despite all these controversial subjects and executive orders that you're doing. I want to get your thoughts on that, how you've really connected to mainstream America.
TRUMP: Yes, I have high approval ratings because I'm -- you know, I'm using common sense, whether it's getting men out of women's sports. I mean, have you seen what goes on with the boxers and with the weightlifters and with the swimmers and everything, that's so ridiculous. And I think it's a 90 percent issue.
And you know, the amazing thing, the Democrats are still fighting for it. It's crazy. It's crazy. I think we should go to Congress also have that cemented in, you know, make it indelible. But we -- you know, it's -- to me, it's all common sense. Who wants an open border where prisons are dumped into our country, where prisoners are led into our country, many of whom are murderers, many of whom murdered far more than one person, and they're now roaming our country? Who wants that? I mean, it's terrible.
Steve, I'd like you to say a couple of words about it.
[18:40:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Well, as you know, Mr. President, since you issued your day one executive orders, border crossings are down approximately 95 percent. You talked to agents in the line in their entire careers. They've never seen crossing days as low as what they're experiencing right now.
The cartels, in fact, are enormously frustrated because they've never seen a clamped in like this before in American history. There are people who working at Border Patrol back when it was an INS in the '80s and '90s, they've never seen a day like this. That's because you've mobilized the 10th Mountain Division, the Marines, the entire U.S. military. They're erecting physical miles of barrier, temporary and ultimately permanent, every single day.
You have all of your border agents pushed to the frontline. They're not doing the "humanitarian processing," quote/unquote, that Biden was doing. They're doing law enforcement and national security. They're interdicting weapons and drugs. They're interdicting violent, high threat criminals. And the U.S. military is repatriating illegal immigrants at a pace and a skill that has never occurred before in American history.
And those who are committing human trafficking and child trafficking are being prosecuted for felony offenses and they'll be doing hard time in jail. There's never been a lockdown like what you have implemented through your orders and vision since you took the oath of office.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your thoughts on DOGE? Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. we're having our first subcommittee --
TRUMP: Yes. Yes. Before I discuss that, I just want to add to what Steve said. And we want people to come into our country, but we want them to come in legally. They have to go through a process and we have to know that they haven't killed nine people or they haven't killed, like in one case, five people and they're out on the loose and we're all looking for that particular individual.
This was all led in by Biden and the group of stupid people, bad people and stupid people. Some are bad, some are stupid, some are both. But I'll tell you what, what they've done to this country -- but we're cleaning it up. And hard to believe -- I can say it, it'll be better than ever before. But we have a lot of bad people we have to get at. We're searching out for a lot of them.
I think Tom Homan and Kristi are doing an unbelievable job, Christy Noem. They're doing an unbelievable job and taking out massive numbers of people. And you notice every country is accepting those people back. Remember everyone said, oh, they'll never accept them. They're all taking them back. They have to. They're all taking them back. Every single country is taking them back. I don't know if they want them or not. I don't imagine they do, but they're taking them back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, back on Gaza. You talked, with Fox News, about the billions of dollars we pay for Jordan and Egypt every year. Would you withhold aid to these countries if they don't agree to take in the Palestinians?
TRUMP: Yes, maybe. Sure. Why not? You mean if they don't agree?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that how --
TRUMP: If they don't agree, I would conceivably withhold aid, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to talk to Prime Minister Netanyahu about the sanity deadline?
TRUMP: Sure. I mean, it's just my deadline, but they may change it. But I think it's -- I've seen too many people come out. They look like Holocaust victims from many years ago. I've never seen anything like it. I didn't think this could happen in this world today. You know, we think we have a civilized world. It's not civil. These are bad people we're dealing with. So, I would -- that would be my suggestion. And he can open it up and not open it up, but that would be my -- do you have anything to say about that? Your commerce, but you have a lot to say from the standpoint of your faith and your religion. Go ahead.
LUTNICK: So, it's amazing that four years of nothing and then you come in and you immediately start to move the needle. You have hostages coming out. You send Steve Witkoff has done an amazing job for you. You're changing the Middle East. You're supporting your ally, Israel. And I, for one, can't be more impressed with the outcomes that you have driven. And choosing this Saturday to save people's lives, or just be done with it, seems like just the right choice.
TRUMP: But I think it's time to come up with a date. It's -- what are we going to do? Keep every week, two people, three people? No. I don't think you can do that anymore. This are very seriously endangered people. These are endangered people. I don't think they're going to last very long. You know, the people that came out yesterday they wouldn't last very long.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you rooting out any U.S. involvement in whatever happens after this deadline?
TRUMP: We'll see what happens. We'll just see what happens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you talk with Zelenskyy this week, sir?
TRUMP: Yes, probably.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By telephone --
TRUMP: He wants to make a deal. Let's see. We're dealing with him and I think they both want to make a deal, but we'll have to see. It's got to be done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if Zelenskyy --
TRUMP: Would have never happened if I were president. This would never have happened. Millions of people are dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What will Zelenskyy have to give up, if anything?
TRUMP: We'll talk about that later, because --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your reaction to a judge today continuing a pause in the buyout program for federal workers?
[18:45:00]
TRUMP: Well, I don't know how you can lose a case like that. We're talking about people, you know, everybody -- I got elected on making government better, more efficient, and smaller. And that's what we're doing. And I think it was a very generous buyout, actually.
Also, if people don't show up to work, we have a right to fire them. And they have an option, they can show up to work or not. If they don't want to show up to work, then let them work -- because then the next step is, have you worked before? Have you worked during this time that you're supposed to be working? You'll find many of those people, in my opinion, have had other jobs, even though they're collecting money from the federal government. Many have had, in my opinion, other jobs. And if they did, that's a big problem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the buyouts are blocked in court, will you instead pursue layoffs in the federal department?
TRUMP: I don't know how they can do. This is free will. This is a buyout where people -- you know, they were offered a good deal. Many people have taken that, as you know. But you know, many of those people and we talk about reporting to work, I happen to be a believer that you have to go to work. I don't think you can work from a home. I don't know. It's like -- there's a whole big, oh, you can work from home. Nobody's going to work from home. They're going to be going out. They're going to play tennis. They're going to play golf. They're going to do a lot of things. They're not working. It's a rare person that's going to work.
You might work 10 percent of the time, maybe 20 percent. I don't think you're going to work a lot more than that. And I think we -- they have an obligation to work. And they have an obligation not to have a second job when they're supposed to be working for the federal government.
You're going to find that a lot of these people have second jobs instead of working for -- they'll be collecting a federal government check and they'll be working two jobs. And that's big trouble for them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You've said a lot about South Africa in the last two weeks. It's hosting the G20 Summit this year. Are you planning to attend this or are you skipping it and telling your cabinet to not --
TRUMP: Well, we'll see what happens. But the South African situation is very, very dangerous and very bad for a lot of people. There's tremendously bad things going on and including the confiscation of property and worse, much worse than that. You know what I'm talking about? And we're not making any payment until we find out what's going on in South Africa. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is General Kellogg going to Ukraine this week, sir, or soon?
TRUMP: Yes, he is. Keith Kellogg -- General Kellogg is an excellent guy, and he's spending time doing various things. We have numerous people working on numerous different problems. You know, when I left office, was it long ago, a little more than four years ago, we had no wars. We had no -- we didn't have problems. Now, we got, the whole world is blowing up, but we'll put out the fires.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've been talking to Vladimir Putin. Are you trying to set up a meeting with him?
TRUMP: Well, I can't tell you what I'm talking about, but we are talking as a group also. I think he'd like to make a deal, but it takes two to tango. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so, I mean, you can't give us any more clarity on when -- whether you personally have spoken to him?
TRUMP: I don't want to talk about it. No, I don't want to talk about it. It's not going to help you to know, but we would like to get a deal done if possible. Only because, in my case, save lives, you know. We're much further away.
Remember, we have an ocean separating. They don't. Europe should be paying what we're paying, and Europe has done it more in the form of a loan than with us, we just give it. You know, Biden gives it because he's not a smart individual. He's not a very smart individual.
We have people over there today who are making a deal that as we get money, we get minerals and we get oil and we get all sorts of things because why are we doing this? And all this money -- we're -- maybe $350 billion and Europe's in for $100 billion. And Europe's in really as a form of a loan. In theory, they get that money back. In theory, they get interest on their money. It's a whole different ballgame. And Biden is the one that started doing this. Every time Zelenskyy came here, he walked away with $60 to $100 billion dollars. I think he's one of the greatest salesmen who ever ever lived, by the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you discuss your intentions with the Kennedy Center, which you're now the board chair of?
TRUMP: Yes. So, we took over the Kennedy Center. We didn't like what they were showing and various other things. And I had a lot of the board members already, as you know, and we have some that will be replaced. But we have, I guess, a whole new group of people going in.
I have Rick Grenell, who's got some experience in that world. He's going to be, he's very good. Going to be handling it on a temporary basis. I think he'll do a great job, but We're going to get some great professionals. I'm going to be chairman of it and we're going to make sure that it's good and it's not going to be woke. There's no more woke in this country. This woke has cost us a fortune and cost us our reputation, but the reputation is coming back very, very rapidly.
[18:50:00]
Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you. The penny is gone.
JIMENEZ: All right. We've just been listening to President Trump after signing a series of executive orders and then answering questions from reporters there. A lot to get into. Joining me now is Stephen Collinson, CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson, and Khaled Elgindy, visiting scholar at Georgetown University.
Khaled, I want to start with you. you because, look, we've been monitoring obviously what I think it's fair to say, fragile ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas right now as we have seen hostages and prisoners exchanged there. But the president said Saturday at 12:00, setting a deadline, that if all the hostages that Hamas is holding have not been returned, all hell will break loose. I wonder what your reaction is to this. And are you confident that any form of ceasefire deal can hold past at least Saturday?
KHALED ELGINDY, VISITING SCHOLAR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY AND AUTHOR, "BLINDSPOT" AMERICA AND THE PALESTINIANS, FROM BALFOUR TO TRUMP": Well, as you said, I mean, we took an already precarious ceasefire situation and made it even more precarious. It's hard to know what will happen. The president is very unpredictable. He likes the big, bold blustery statements. But he takes actions at the same time that are without any regard for consequences.
So, what does he mean exactly? It's hard to know. But he may have given Netanyahu, who is already, I think, skittish about continuing with the ceasefire, he may have given him the pretext he needs to go back to all-out war in Gaza, which he needs to stay in power.
JIMENEZ: And, of course, we've seen some tensions on the home front in Israel over the pace of hostages that have come home so far. Look, as I mentioned, a lot of different topics that were touched here. Joey, I want to bring you in here -- or, I'm sorry Stephen, I want to bring you in here, because, look, we spoke about it a little bit earlier in the show about tariffs. We heard them officially sign it, 25 percent tariffs on steel and aluminum imports. No exceptions.
I wonder what your reaction is to what we heard from the president on the trade front and if you were surprised at all.
COLLINSON: Not really. I think what he is showing is that he is, at least for now, committed to this blanket tariff strategy. We're expecting reciprocal tariffs across the board to come into force later this week. I think the tariffs are another blow to the economies of Canada and Mexico, notwithstanding the fact that he suspended for a month the previous tariffs he was going to put on both of those countries to try and exact some border moves.
I mean, I think it's difficult to see exactly what the president wants from Canada and Mexico other than to try to cripple their steel industries in order to make the U.S. Steel industry stronger. I think that's what the message of a lot of this early part of the president's second term is about, it's exerting U.S. power at every opportunity and not really worrying about the consequences.
JIMENEZ: And, Joey Jackson, I believe we have him back now. You know, one of the aspects that the president touched on as far as executive orders, he did loosen restrictions to the law banning U.S. companies to bribe foreign officials. He said that essentially it makes it now easier for American businessmen to do business overseas. I wonder how you see it.
JACKSON: Well, the way I see it is that you have Congress that passes laws and then you have a president that is in a role of faithfully executing those laws. And so, with respect to that, I don't know that a president gets to decide which laws are appropriate and which don't.
At the same time, obviously, there are administrative priorities. Those priorities certainly can be by an executive discretion could be used. The president has the power to pardon people, but I don't think that a president has the unilateral ability to opt for what laws are appropriate and what's not. I think that's a function of Congress, and I think you'll see a series of challenges as a result of that as it relates, Omar, to this law and as it relates potentially to other laws that he may deem not to be in the best interest of the country, that's Congress' prerogative, not the president's prerogative.
JIMENEZ: Yes, and the official act, the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act that the Order of Reduced Enforcement to. Just a few more minutes here. Khaled, I want to bring you in on one other point, was that the president did talk about, he was questioned about where the people in Gaza would go. We know he's floated resettling them temporarily or otherwise to neighboring countries, but no -- I don't know, at least, personally, any Arab country that has accepted that proposition that has even been floated.
[18:55:00]
I wonder what your reaction is to what we have heard from the president so far on this front, and do you believe that is any sort of legitimate proposal to resettle them either temporarily or further?
ELGINDY: I mean, I think it's important to state very clearly up front, there is no legitimate form of ethnic cleansing. It doesn't matter if the proposal comes from the president of the United States. This would be a forcible transfer of the population, it would have to be at gunpoint. It would be unethical, immoral, as well as illegal.
So, there isn't a legitimate way to do that. And I think that, you know, the Arab states rejection of this is on that basis, is that you cannot remove Palestinians forcibly from their homeland. It is -- in addition to being illegal and immoral, it would be deeply destabilizing and frankly stupid on the part of the president to take the two countries that have the oldest peace treaties with Israel and to destabilize them by forcing a population from Palestinians onto their borders, that would jeopardize not only the peace treaties, but those very regimes themselves.
JIMENEZ: Yes, a lot to take in there. Thank you for sticking with us over the course of that press conference. Really appreciate you all. And thank you all for watching.
I'm Omar Jimenez. Stay with CNN.
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