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CNN International: Frigid Temps, Snow, Ice to Hit Central U.S. And Ohio Valley; Ukraine Sidelined as U.S. Russia Talks Held in Riyadh; Russia Launches Drones at Ukraine Ahead of Saudi Arabia Talks; U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio Sits Down With Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov; Russian Official Describes the Discussions as Positive; Zelenskyy Arrives in Turkey, Meets With Erdogan. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired February 18, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWSROOM": Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers all around the world. I'm Christina Macfarlane. This is "CNN Newsroom". Just ahead, historic talks, the U.S. secretary of state sits down with his Russian counterpart to discuss the war in Ukraine. We will have full coverage this hour. First, questions swirl over what caused a dramatic plane to crash at Canada's busiest airport. We're live in Toronto with the very latest details. And foreign students under fire, how a Trump executive order has some young protestors in the U.S. fearing for their immigration status.

Any minute now, we are expecting to hear from Russia's foreign minister after discussions in Riyadh over ending Russia's war in Ukraine. No one from Europe and no one from Ukraine was there to witness the talks between diplomats from Russia and the United States. On the one side of a very large table was Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. Facing him was Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, and they spoke for more than four hours. One Russian participant describing the meeting as positive and in an apparent show of force before those talks, Russia launched a series of drone attacks on Ukraine overnight as it seeks to weaken Ukraine's defenses and attack critical energy infrastructure in the country. CNN's Matthew Chance's in Riyadh and filed this report a short time ago.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, I mean, I think there's a slight difference of comments (ph) coming out of both sides as to what the purpose of these talks are. The U.S. are going into this saying they're trying to suss out essentially whether the Russians are serious about negotiations to bring to an end the war in Ukraine. Top considerations there, of course, when it comes to resolving that three-year-old conflict, occupied Ukrainian land, how much of that will be kept under Russian control and how much will be returned to the Ukrainian state. Ukraine's path to NATO membership, or whether or not it will join NATO, something that the Americans have already said, it is likely not to happen.

Peacekeeping troops, obviously there's going to be a big long frontline between Russia and Ukraine if an end to the war takes place, and it's going to require a lot of international peacekeepers to make sure those violations don't take place. And of course, Russian sanctions and trade, Russia has been hit by crippling sanctions over the course of the past three years because of its full-scale invasion of Ukraine and other issues as well. So, that's the U.S. agenda.

On the Russian side, they've sort of got much less of a focus on ending the war, more of a focus on that being one of the issues that has to be resolved as part of a general normalization of relations between the United States and Russia. So, the Russians are very keen on the economic aspect, getting sanctions lifted, restarting economic cooperation with the United States to try and sort of boost the economy, which has been suffering over the course of the past three years.

There's also that outstanding issue of a presidential summit between President Putin and President Trump of the United States. Kremlin is saying that we'll have more information on that potentially at the end of these talks.

MACFARLANE: Well, let's go now to Moscow. That's where our CNN's Fred Pleitgen is live today. And Fred, as we were saying earlier, these talks lasted apparently some four hours this morning, have reportedly wrapped. And we are currently waiting, we think, to hear from Russia's foreign minister in the next hour or so. But so far, what details are you hearing emerging of what took place during these talks?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Christina, all the details that we're getting so far from all this actually do come from the Russian side, and they come from one of the Chief Russian Negotiators, Yuri Ushakov, who's also a Senior Aide to Russian president of Vladimir Putin. And he spoke to Russia's first channel after the talks ended and he described the atmosphere, described the talks themselves with the Russian term 'neplokho' which means 'not bad', obviously, indicating that the Russians at least view some positive elements of these talks.

He said that all the serious issues that the two sides wanted to discuss were discussed. He said that there wasn't necessarily much in the way of progress on any of these issues, but he said at least most of them were discussed in a constructive atmosphere as he put it. Now, as far as that possible meeting between Vladimir Putin, the Russian President, and President Trump is concerned, Yuri Ushakov also on that saying that he believes that, that meeting is unlikely to take place next week.

Of course, there were some, who believe that it could take place as soon as that. He certainly saying that he believes that the way things are going right now, that is not going to be the case. However, he did also say that the two sides are going to remain in consultations at the working level, of course, to try and suss out that agreement for Ukraine to try and see how that is going to move forward, and then also to move forward on possible economic issues as well.

[08:05:00] So certainly, the Russians are saying they believe that this was a constructive atmosphere. They're not necessarily saying that there was much in the way of progress. And it was quite interesting because Kirill Dmitriev, who was also in the room there as well, he's the Head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund. He just came out and he spoke on Russian state media, and he also said that the two sides, the most important thing in all of this is that the two sides were listening to one another and that there was a constructive atmosphere. That doesn't necessarily mean that, on the actual issues, there would've been much in the way of progress, but certainly the Russians are saying that they are coming away from all of this with a positive atmosphere as far as these talks that took place.

And you're absolutely right. We are waiting for **Sergey Lavrov, the Foreign Minister, to start a press conference within the next hour to get to some more details on all this. But certainly, there are already some details that are coming out from the Russians as to how they believe these talks went. And you're right, they did go on for four hours. There was a little bit of a break. There was a working lunch in the meantime. But certainly, from the body language that we saw there, certainly, it appears though it was a fairly constructive atmosphere.

(CROSSTALK)

MACFARLANE: Fred, we just want to interrupt you. Apologies for a moment because we are getting some reaction from Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, in Riyadh. And we just want to take our viewers to take a listen into that just now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- with the Russians. Are you walking away with this with any agreements for any follow-up conversations?

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I would start by saying we've agreed on four principles that I think are important. The first is that we are going to work, we're going to appoint our teams respectively and work very quickly to re-establish the functionality of our respective missions in Washington and in Moscow. For us to be able to continue to move down this road, we need to have diplomatic facilities that are operating and functioning normally.

The second point is that we're going to appoint a high-level team from our end to help negotiate and walk -- work through the end of the conflict in Ukraine in a way that's enduring and acceptable to all the parties engaged.

The third point is to begin to work at a high level as well, to begin to discuss and think about and examine both the geopolitical and economic cooperation that could result from an end to the conflict in Ukraine. Obviously, we have to see that conflict come to a successful and enduring end in order for that to be possible.

And the last thing we agreed to is that while our teams are going to be working on all of this, the four of us who were here today -- the five of us that were here today, we're going -- are going to remain engaged in this process to make sure that it's moving along in a productive way. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What does an enduring and successful end look like? Did you present any proposals to the Russians today?

MIKE WALTZ, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, there are some underlying principles. This needs to be a permanent end to the war and not a temporary end as we've seen in the past. We know just the practical reality, is that there is going to be some discussion of territory and there's going to be discussion of security guarantees. Those are just fundamental basics that will undergird and underlie any type of discussion.

But I think the most important part is the president has stated his desire, his determination to end this war, to end the killing that is going on, the death and destruction that is happening as this war goes on and on, month after month after month in the killing fields of Eastern and Southern Ukraine is unacceptable. It is not in the interest of either country. It's not in the interest of the world, and certainly not in the interest of the United States and Europe.

So, all of those things will drive the negotiations going forward. And as you can see, the president, President Trump has determined to move very quickly. We just had a head of state phone call, the first in years, and here we are less than a week later, at the highest level of the U.S. and Russian government. And we expect to continue to drive that pace to not only end the war, but then to unlock what could be very productive and stabilizing relationships going forward.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You mentioned territory. Is it acceptable to the U.S. for Russia to retain any territory that it annexed since the beginning of the war in February 2022?

WALTZ: Well, I think those are things that -- those are to be discussed and those are things that we will start and do the tough work ahead. But the important thing is that we've started that process, and what the president did not find acceptable was an endless war in Europe that was literally turning into -- has turned into a meat grinder of people on both sides. So, if you just think about, just in a few months, President Trump has shifted the entire global conversation from not 'if the war is going to end', but just 'how it's going to end'.

[08:10:00]

And only President Trump can do that. And in the Oval Office, less than a week ago, both President Putin and President Zelenskyy both said to him, only you, President Trump, could drive this war to a conclusion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What concessions do you expect?

RUBIO: Again, we're not going to pre-negotiate it, nor an end to this conflict. These are the kinds of things that have to happen through hard and difficult diplomacy in closed rooms over a period of time. What's important to understand is two things. The first is the only leader in the world who can make this happen, who can even bring people together to begin to talk about it in a serious way, is President Trump. He's the only one in the world that can do that right now.

The second thing I would say is that in order for a conflict to end, everyone involved in that conflict has to be OK with it, has to be -- it has to be acceptable to them. But we have to understand that it's been three-and-a-half years since there's been any sort of regularized contact between the United States and Russia, and in some cases, between any of the participants in this con conflict and Russia.

So, the goal of today's meeting was to follow up on the phone call the president had a week ago and begin to establish those lines of communication. The work remains. Today is the first step of a long and difficult journey, but an important one, and President Trump is committed to bringing an end to this conflict as he said when he campaigned for president and he wants it to be end in a way that's fair, he wants it to end in a way that's sustainable and enduring, not that leads to another conflict in two to three years.

That's not going to be easy to achieve, but he's the only one in the world that can begin that process. Donald Trump is the only leader in the world that could initiate that process. And today was the first step in that process.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is sanctions relief going to be involved in any of this normalizing or trying to more level-set relationship between the U.S. and Russia? Did the Russians bring up sanctions relief in the meeting today?

RUBIO: Well, sanctions are all the result of this conflict. There are sanctions that were imposed as a result of this conflict. And so, I would say to you that in order to bring an end to any conflict, there has to be concessions made by all sides. We're not going to predetermine what those are. Again, we're not -- certainly not going to negotiate this today or in a press conference for that matter. But, and there are other parties that have sanctions. The European Union is going to have to be at the table at some point because they have sanctions as well that have been imposed.

So, but I guess the point here is the goal is, and we agreed on what the goal is, the goal is to bring an end to this conflict in a way that's fair, enduring, sustainable, and acceptable to all parties involved. What that looks like, well, that's what this -- what the ongoing engagement is going to be all about.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Ukrainians and the Europeans have suggested they feel very sidelined about how the process has played out so far. How do you intend to address their concerns and will they be incorporated in future meetings in a multilateral way?

RUBIO: Well, the comment I would have on that is that for three-and- a-half years, while this conflict has raged, or three years while it has raged, no one else has been able to bring something together like what we saw today, because Donald Trump is the only leader in the world that can. So, no one is being sidelined here, but President Trump is in a position that he campaigned on to initiate a process that could bring about an end of this conflict. And from that could emerge some very positive things for the United States, for Europe, for Ukraine, for the world. But first, it begins by the end of this conflict.

And so, the only thing President Trump's trying to do is bring about peace. It's what he campaigned on. It's something the world should be thanking President Trump for doing. He was able -- he's been able to achieve what for three -- two-and-a-half, three years, no one else has been able to achieve, which is to bring -- to begin this process, a serious process. Obviously, a lot of work remains before we have a result, but President Trump is the only one that can do it.

WALTZ: Look, it's common sense. If you're going to bring both sides together, you have to talk to both sides. And we'll continue to remind everyone, literally, within minutes of President Trump hanging up with President Putin, he called and spoke with President Zelenskyy. So, shuttle diplomacy has happened throughout history. It's happened all over the world. We are absolutely talking to both sides. The secretary of state just met with President Zelenskyy days ago, along with the vice president, seven cabinet members, in Europe, at the same time, really showing the importance of engaging our allies.

President Trump spoke with president Macron just yesterday. Prime Minister Starmer is coming to Washington next week. So, I think we'll -- the facts will continue to push back on this notion that our allies haven't been consulted. They're being consulted literally almost on a daily basis, and we'll continue to do so.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you set a date for the two presidents to meet at this meeting? When can we expect that meeting?

WALTZ: We did not. We did not set that date. But the two presidents talked about meeting and expect to meet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you take us a little bit in the room today? What was the interaction like? How would you characterize the discussions?

[08:15:00]

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. MIDDLE EAST ENVOY: It was positive, upbeat, constructive, everybody there to get to the right outcome, solution based. We discussed it afterwards. We couldn't have imagined a better result after this session. It was very, very solid.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you be traveling to Russia again, Mr. Witkoff?

WITKOFF: I'm not sure, but we'll make that determination in the next couple of weeks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Europeans, like Keir Starmer, the U.K. Prime Minister, has said the U.S. needs to back any sort of European solution to the war. Is this something that you are willing to commit to?

WALTZ: Well, I think that's something that we'll continue to discuss. We have certainly, again, as a first principle, a European-led security guarantee. We have, the president, many of us, as members of -- prior members of Congress ourselves have called for the Europeans to continue to contribute to our common defense, to continue to share the burden of NATO defense. We'll continue to point out that while things have improved, starting with President Trump's first term, the fact that a third of our NATO allies still do not contribute the minimum of two percent of their GDP to defense a decade after that we all collectively made that agreement isn't acceptable.

We have the NATO summit coming up this June and we would expect, with the type of conflict, the type of warfare and destruction we've seen in Europe, sadly, the last several years, that we have a hundred percent at the minimum and in fact are exceeding that. So look, this is a common effort. This isn't just about what the United States is going to continue to contribute, and what we are going to continue to ask of the American taxpayer. We all have to make those tough decisions.

We all have to contribute to our common defense, and we expect that -- this to be a two-way street for our European allies. And the fact that both the United Kingdom, France and others are talking about contributing more forcefully to Ukraine's security, we think is a good thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you walk away from this meeting convinced the Russians want peace? You said it might take some time to be convinced of that. How are you seeing it now?

RUBIO: I mean, I don't view diplomacy that way. I think diplomacy ultimately is based on actions. It's based on commitments that are kept. So I think they -- I came away today convinced that they are willing to begin to engage in a serious process to determine how and how quickly and through what mechanism can an end be brought to this war. Whether we can ultimately reach that outcome will obviously depend on every side in this conflict's willingness to agree to certain things.

So, I think it's important to have this meeting because we haven't really had much engagement with the Russians for almost three years, and it sets the table for future conversations. How that turns out will be up to the parties and their willingness not just to make commitments, but to live by them. That'll be tested in the weeks to come.

But I can tell you again, as I reiterate, President Trump has made it -- he made it very clear during the campaign, he thought this conflict needed to end. He's the only leader in the world that could have started a process that we saw here today, and this process is going to continue. And when you talk about an enduring and sustainable end to the conflict, it means one that's acceptable to everyone involved in it. And that obviously includes Ukraine, but also our partners in Europe, and of course, the Russian side as well.

WALTZ: Sorry, I didn't mean to jump in there, but I just wanted to also take a moment, I think on behalf of all of us and the president, to thank our partners in Saudi Arabia, to thank our hosts for bringing this together, and particularly the Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman and his team. We are moving quickly which means they moved very quickly to be such gracious hosts and we certainly are all appreciative.

RUBIO: Absolutely.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A last question, will the Saudis take on a more active mediation role as these talks go forward?

RUBIO: Well, that's a decision for the kingdom to make, but I can tell you that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is playing an indispensable role in making today possible, not just hosting us, but bringing the parties together to have these conversations. I think it's something we're very grateful for, something we're very grateful for the partnership that we have with them on a host of issues, and this being one of them where we thank them for doing it. And we hope they -- that they will -- I think they've offered and I believe that they will continue to be helpful in any way they can.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Well, thank you all. Really appreciate it.

WALTZ: Thanks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) I'll be extremely brief. So what is the next step now, the high-level team you mentioned is number two over the three?

RUBIO: Yeah. So let me walk you through the -- the next step is multi-track. The first next step is working through our respective teams at the diplomatic side, just to ensure that our diplomatic missions can function.

[08:20:00]

There's been a series of reciprocal actions taken over the last 10 years that have really diminished our ability to operate in Moscow, as an example, and they would argue their ability to operate in Washington. We're going to need to have vibrant diplomatic missions that are able to function normally in order to be able to continue these conduits.

The second is a high-level team, including those who are experts on these topics of the technical side, to begin to engage with their side on parameters of what an end to this conflict would look like. And on that front, obviously, there's going to be engagement and consultation with Ukraine, with our partners in Europe and others, but ultimately, the Russian side will be indispensable to this effort and so that process will begin.

And then the third is, together with those other two, is beginning to engage in identifying the extraordinary opportunities that exists, should this conflict come to an acceptable end, the credible opportunities that exist to partner with the Russians geopolitically on issues of common interest and frankly, economically on issues that hopefully will be good for the world and will also improve our relations in the long term between these two important countries. So, all three of those efforts will be happening in conjunction with one another. Obviously, the diplomatic one is one we think we hope to move pretty quickly on because this involves the treatment of our respective missions. The second one will be difficult, which is the question of Ukraine and the end of that conflict. But I think that's essential in order for the third piece to even be possible, which is our ability to work together on other geopolitical matters of common interest and of course, some pretty unique potentially historic economic partnerships as well. the key that unlocks the door for those opportunities, however, is the end to this conflict.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But (inaudible), in terms of the -- when does the high-level team, has there been any date set for --

(CROSSTALK)

RUBIO: There's no date set, but as we -- President Trump is, as you've seen over the last four weeks, not patient in terms of getting action. He drives, he drives hard, he wants to get things done. He's been wanting to do this, and he's moving very quickly to fulfill the promises he made to the American people when they elected him as our president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And then in terms of number one and the restoration of the diplomatic missions, you'll remember that the first big tit of the tit-for-tats was after the Skripal poisoning and the U.S. under one of your predecessors, Mr. Tillerson, expelled a lot of Russian diplomats, to which they responded. The consulate in St. Petersburg closed down -- got closed down by the Russians. You guys closed down the consulate in Seattle, and several others. Are those going to reopen? Are the --

(CROSSTALK)

RUBIO: Well, that's what we're going to be talking about. And at a -- ultimately, again, I'm not going to negotiate or just work on that in public. That's what these channels will be about. But ultimately, the goal we need to have is, we have to have some normalcy in our missions and their ability to function.

WALTZ: And the main embassies even.

RUBIO: And then the main embassies --

(CROSSTALK)

WALTZ: I mean, just the main embassies, regardless of the consulates.

RUBIO: I mean, if our -- if the -- if our diplomatic channels are broken, it's going to be very difficult to consistently engage on a host of topics, including some unrelated irritants that could derail the broader talks on Ukraine. So there has to be some improvement in the way our missions are able to work, and in the environment and space that they're given to operate in. So that's something we want to move on quickly, and it's important to set the table for the other two things that we want to do. But, I think the key really in all of this is ultimately going to be whether an agreement can be reached with all parties involved on an acceptable resolution to the conflict in Ukraine. Because if that happens, not only will the world be a better place, but I think there'll be some pretty unique opportunities to work with them on areas of bilateral geopolitical interests and some very unique economic opportunities. But we have to get the Ukraine situation resolved first in a way that's acceptable to everyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. My last one. So, but does that mean if you get the staffs back to operational, the normal operational level of staff at the embassies that you consider the Skripal case, the Crimea annexation to be closed? They're no longer issues? Because I think, you mentioned that Keir Starmer is going to be in Washington next week. I can imagine that the Brits won't be particularly (inaudible).

RUBIO: Yeah, again, I'm not -- I'm -- yeah, I'm not going to negotiate or talk through every element of the disruptions that exist or have existed in our diplomatic relations and the mechanics of it. Suffice it to say that President Trump has pledged and intends to keep his promise to do everything he can to bring an end to this conflict. We cannot do that unless we have at least some normalcy in the way our diplomatic missions operate in Moscow and in Washington, D.C. And so we need to work to improve that, and we're going to work with them to see what's possible within that context.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does that include removing Lavrov from taking -- rescinding sanctions that are input -- have been imposed?

RUBIO: We're just not at that level of conversation yet, but certainly that's -- there'll be a number of topics that'll have to be discussed along the way.

[08:25:00]

They haven't -- that -- we haven't even begun that process. Today was just an agreement to begin a process to talk about those things.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, thank you.

RUBIO: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: You have been listening to the U.S. delegation in Riyadh there, Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, Mike Waltz, Special Envoy, Steven Witkoff, addressing the next steps and how they intend to bring an end to the war in Ukraine, saying there needs to be enduring peace and an enduring end to the war, and that they intend to appoint a high-level team to walk through the conflict's end.

Let's get straight out to our team on the ground with this, bringing in Clare Sebastian here in London, Alayna Treene at the White House, and Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv for reaction to all of this. Nick, I want to go to you first there on the ground in Kyiv.

This delegation, as you heard there, stressing the importance of an enduring and successful end to the war. Talking about Ukraine without Ukraine being in the room, also stressing though that shuttle diplomacy has been happening behind the scenes. What did you make of what you heard?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it's interesting to see how Ukraine appears to be seminal to the talking points we heard from the American side, but it slipped down sort of the running order of the readout we got from the Russians there. Minimal progress it seems made on that matter and the issue potentially shunted to a separate working group that will now begin works there.

But Mike Waltz, the National Security Adviser, clear, using his hands to say there will be the reality of territorial concessions and security guarantees. The phrase territorial concessions, I'm sure, will leave many here in Kyiv uncomfortable with the reality frankly, that they have seen about 20 percent of their country occupied by Russia. And security guarantees, something that potentially may warm President Zelenskyy of Ukraine, desperately looking for that in the future. But it doesn't appear that any major concession was given there.

And that group of three, Witkoff, the Middle East Envoy, Steven Witkoff, who has clearly stuck up a warm relationship in Moscow, Secretary of State Rubio and the National Security Adviser, all there at pains at times to stress that Ukraine is part of this process to talk about how key the Europeans will be because they hold the key to sanctions as well. And the U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer is coming to Washington in the forthcoming week. So a bid perhaps there to undo some of the damage potentially many felt was done at the Munich Security Conference last weekend, where not only the Vice President J.D. Vance accused many of America's closest allies of being totalitarian at times in their instincts.

We also heard the Ukraine and Russia Envoy, General Keith Kellogg talk about how Europe wasn't going to really be involved in these negotiations at all -- I paraphrased here -- because they kind of messed up the process in 2014 and 2015. So a bid to undo some of that damage there, a question perhaps as to how whether or not these teams are all necessarily reading off the same script at this point, but also an interesting development too in terms of diplomacy, key that there will be some increase it seems in personnel certainly in the Washington and Moscow embassies, respectively.

Pointed out during that press conference that these were reduced because of the use by Russian agents of a weapons-grade nerve agent in a civilian town, Salisbury, which could potentially have killed hundreds if used differently or worse to try and target a former Russian spy that had defected. Those were the reasons why the diplomats were kicked out. That has reduced, many security sources say, Russia's capacity for espionage in the United States.

And now, it seems that despite these talks occurring at the highest level, that they want to have a lower level capacity to work through various issues. I think there'll be some in Russia who look at this with a degree of happiness to see that the broader U.S.-Russian relationship has been the key focus here. That's been kind of the Moscow's talking point as to exactly what they feel is at the heart of Ukraine conflict, the U.S. using this as sort of a proxy war to attack Russia.

But I think there'll be some in Ukraine who see that as a sign maybe that the Washington-Moscow track is building, that has seen some progress description there from Steve Witkoff as being -- as good as you could possibly kind of have imagined. But I think also Ukraine will be pleased to see that press conference and not see that any major concessions have already been offered or any major track they're expected to absorb to be sold to them.

So clearly, a lot of work ahead here, but I think the larger picture, an assessment that this was really about the U.S. and Russia. Initially, Americans talked about Ukrainian conflict being at the heart of it. But if we look at what's actually being discussed and emerged from this, Ukraine will be dealt with separately. The U.S. clear that they need, in this press conference at least, Ukraine and Europe on side for that.

And probably I'm sure the Russians pleased to see that they've had that high-level discussion about normalizing relationships. They may see their diplomatic presence in Washington increase yet again, but they haven't had to concede much.

[08:30:00]

And the key question, are Trump and Putin going to meet? Undecided. Not clear at this point, no date set. And I think some of the optimism maybe from the Russian or American side, unclear, diminished after that meeting. Christina?

MACFARLANE: Nick, thank you. Well, let's get the view from the White House, from the U.S., Alayna Treene is there joining us. And Alayna, as Nick was saying, there are no major concessions announced in this press conference. However, there was confirmation of the fact that discussion over territory and security guarantees will be part of these peace deal talks.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, exactly. And we did hear Secretary of State, Marco Rubio say that concessions will be needed on all sides in order for this deal to eventually happen. He acknowledged that he was not going to get into the details of what exactly those concessions are at this point, but he noted, again, that he recognizes that Ukraine, the E.U. are going to have a seat at this table, but that they have to have -- find a place to start with these conversations.

Like when I talked to Trump Administration officials about that meeting today in Riyadh, which I should say lasted about four hours, they argued that it was a first step. They were trying to frame it as a first step with Russia to this broader conversation that they're hoping to have, moving forward with all different parties. That is the same way we kind of heard Rubio, Waltz and Witkoff describe it today.

Just a couple of other things to note, I found it very striking that Waltz said, yes, the goal here is to have a broader deal, but that's not the only goal. The goal is also to try and repair relationships moving forward. He said, unlock what could be a better relationship with Russia, so something to keep in mind there as well. We also heard Rubio kind of go into extensive detail, saying that they need to repair diplomatic channels with Russia in order for this to be successful. He noted that going back years now, there have been kind of tit-for-tat sanctions and whatnot and other actions both on Russia's part and on the United States' part that has led to a breakdown in diplomatic relationships.

He said that has to improve behind the scenes in order for this to work. But again, we didn't really get any real specifics of what this could look like. They tried to keep it very high level, tried not to promise anything. I want to note as well that Witkoff did say he thought the meeting went very well, that he didn't think it could go any better. But again, very much an early starting point.

And one thing as well, I just want to add is, when I talked to White House and Trump officials about this meeting today, they were very clear that they wanted these three, the U.S. delegation to go in there and keep everything on the table, take nothing off the table. It does sound like they were all very open-minded to what could happen. Another notable thing as well is, of course, Saudi Arabia's role in all of this.

Obviously, they weren't exactly in the room, but they were the ones who decided that they would allow this meeting to take place in Riyadh, to host them. They had said that they were going to have some sort of mediation role. We did hear that as well from Rubio, that he thanked them not only for hosting them, but said they were really instrumental in bringing both sides together. I think their role in all of this is very notable, especially given they're doing similar things in the discussions with Middle East right now. Christina?

MACFARLANE: Yeah. And quite incredible as we've been talking about how Russia view this as being more than just about the Ukrainian peace deal, peace with Ukraine. That as you say, Alana, the U.S. is viewing this as being more than about the peace talks as well, this extraordinary opportunity to partner with Russia geopolitically, politically and economically, as you say. Alayna Treene, thank you for now.

I just want to turn to Clare Sebastian, who's here in London. And Clare, I thought it was interesting to hear, given the U.S.' skepticism over NATO, that Mike Waltz said they intend to, and I quote, "Continue to share the burden of NATO defense, even as they then went on to lambast the E.U. over, saying they still weren't spending enough on defense and they needed to contribute more.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it was a more moderate tone, I think, than we heard from the U.S. at the NATO meetings last week in Brussels. As you say, he didn't suggest in any way that the U.S. was abandoning Europe. He said that they were going to continue to contribute, but he pointed out, of course, that a third of NATO members don't even spend two percent of GDP on defense as of now. And while things have improved and he noted that part of that happened during the first Trump Administration, they'd like to see it get to a hundred percent by the NATO Leaders Summit which is happening in June this year.

As Alayna pointed out, they also emphasized, that no one is being sidelined. That was the words of Marco Rubio, that Europe is going to have to be at the table because they have, of course, sanctions on Russia and that any settlement would have to be something that all sides in this conflict are OK with. But I think, I really want to emphasize here that I think Russia will look at this very positively because what we -- sort of reading between the lines here, what we see from the U.S. is definitely, I think, more carrots than sticks when it comes to approaching Moscow.

[08:35:00]

We know that the Head of Russia's Sovereign Wealth Fund, who was part of the talks today, went into this mentioning sanctions, really sort of looking like he might be pushing for sanctions to be lifted as part of a conflict. We know the Russian economy is in some degree of trouble, things are getting worse over there. And it does seem reading between the lines of what they said, that that was very much part of the discussions. Point three of the four principles that Rubio noted was to begin work and think about the geopolitical and economic cooperation that could result in this.

As you noted, he also said, this would possibly be, if the conflict comes to an end, an incredible opportunity to partner with the Russians. This will have been music to the Russian's ears. And I think for Ukraine, it's problematic because there's a sense of equivocation, right, which they've been fighting against all along. They are the victim, Russia, the aggressor, and yet the U.S. is saying both sides need to make concessions. The Ukraine would like to see Russia withdraw and then pay reparations, not some sort of equal footing where both sides each have to give something up.

So I think from that perspective, this is a boost for Russia. They already went into this emboldened, noting the end of the era of isolate -- of being isolated by the West, and I think they may come out of this even more emboldened.

MACFARLANE: Clare Sebastian, Alayna Treene, Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv, thank you all very much. Stay with us. We'll be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: U.S. Secretary of State, Marco Rubio has laid out four principles agreed on by Russia and the U.S. following high-level talks aimed at ending the war in Ukraine. We're still waiting to hear from his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov. The talks in Saudi Arabia have now wrapped up with one Russian official describing them as positive, and he said the discussions lasted more than four hours, but what's not -- what is most noticeable is who is not at the table. Kyiv and Europe have both been sidelined. Afterwards, America's top diplomats spoke and said, concessions must be made on all sides and he credited U.S. President Donald Trump for getting things started.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RUBIO: And he wants it to be end in a way that's fair, he wants it to end in a way that's sustainable and enduring, not that leads to another conflict in two to three years.

[08:40:00]

That's not going to be easy to achieve, but he's the only one in the world that can begin that process. Donald Trump is the only leader in the world that could initiate that process, and today was the first step in that process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, as the talks began, Russia intensified attacks in key areas of Ukraine's Eastern Donetsk region. Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy meanwhile says he wasn't invited to the Saudi meeting and warns he won't accept any negotiated outcome. He arrived in Turkey earlier for a meeting with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

And as we just mentioned, U.S. Secretary of State, Marco Rubio said Washington and Moscow agreed on four principles following the Riyadh talks. But they did -- they did it without Ukraine. Joining me now to discuss this is Alexander Rodnyansky. He is a former Economic Adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Thank you for your time.

Alexander, I don't know if you had a chance to hear all that was outlined in that press conference just a short time ago. But as someone in Ukraine right now, who is facing the situation of your adversary, your aggressor, being in the room with the United States, and that then delegation speaking to the world on steps they are taking in partnership to move forward, how does that feel? What are your thoughts right now?

ALEXANDER RODNYANSKY, FORMER ECONOMIC ADVISER TO UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: Yes, well, thanks for having me. Look, I mean, if we can really make sure that this conflict ends on a permanent basis and that there's no returning to it whatsoever, there's no other war after a ceasefire that might be reached anytime soon, then by all means, let's see whether we can make that work, whether Trump can make it happen. I'm still skeptical whether that's actually possible, but let's see what happens.

By and large, of course, it doesn't feel good. We've been waging a war for almost three years now, a full-fledged war, and a war before that. And not to be sitting at the table where the fate of your country is being decided is, of course, not a good feeling. But, let's see what comes out of this.

MACFARLANE: There was talk just now of what steps the U.S. will be taking with Russia with regard to discussion over territory, security guarantees, of that being part of these negotiations. And there is a real concern that this may lead to a quick and dirty deal being done between Russia and the United States. If you are forced, if Ukraine are forced to freeze your borders at this stage to be locked out of membership of NATO, what would that spell for Ukraine? RODNYANSKY: Well, it wouldn't lead to anything good inside Ukraine, and it would cause political turmoil, I fear, if a deal that is really unacceptable to the Ukrainian people were to be agreed upon by the large players, including the U.S. and Russia, obviously, and whoever else will have some sway over it. That would not end well. And in fact, it might not even end the war itself. It just -- it will play into the Russian regime's hands, in other words, and it would allow them to just press ahead and then use whatever political turbulences ensue in Ukraine for their own benefit, actually. So this is a dangerous path to take and I hope it's not the one that will be chosen.

MACFARLANE: Thank you for your time. We just want to turn actually to our viewers, to Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who is speaking now in Riyadh after holding talks with the United States. Let's take a listen.

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): -- talks with the U.S. administration, Marco Rubio in particular, we stress the importance of international relations, and that acting in one's own national interests, we fully agreed with that. And obviously, these national interests certainly wouldn't coincide, not by long shot sometimes, but we engaged to make sure that we wouldn't indulge in confrontation, and try and find other ways out.

We have to do absolutely everything to join our efforts and come up with a reciprocally acceptable agreement. and that goes for economic relations as well. I think that the meeting was very useful. We didn't just listen to each other, we heard each other, and I think the American side certainly started to understand our side of the argument, which has been many times expanded by President Putin.

As for the agreements we achieved, first of all, the most urgent I think is not the most difficult one, and that is to provide for exchange of ambassadors on both sides.

[08:45:00]

And secondly, to remove the obstacles which for many long years, particularly in the administration of President to Biden, has thwarted our diplomatic missions, really complicating their work very significantly with expulsion of our diplomats, which of course we retaliated, and many, many other issues.

And the last question, of course, was Russian transmissions. And we agreed to look at all those questions in future meetings and to remove these barriers. And that goes also for other overseas institutions and not get bogged down in concrete problems, but to go forward in a systemic kind of way and remove the inconveniences, which really do for progress.

The second agreement which we achieved, which will happen in the very near future, is the bringing the Ukrainian conflict to an end. And we talked about who would, represent us in Washington and as soon as we know their names, we will publish them and we will appoint our participants as well. But the third main agreement was to bring about the conditions for ending the crisis in Ukraine and to commit to the fact that our partnership, our cooperation should be resumed across the board. And we believe that there is a huge interest in resuming our exchanges on a geopolitical level with regard to crises and conflicts throughout the world. Russia has a great interest in that and I think there was a lot of interest also in removing some sanctions to economic activity.

With regard to the economic side of our meeting today, we were accompanied by the Head of the Sovereign Russian Fund, who also presented or talked about a number of problems which could be efficiently solved. So questions please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Just like to clarify, did you manage to prepare the ground for a meeting between the two presidents? And what about concessions to all sides?

LAVROV (through translator): Well, we managed to agree on a number of things, but it doesn't necessarily mean to say that our positions converged. And certainly, we didn't decide once and for all how to decide all the issues to do with our diplomatic delegations. But on international economic ties, I think that we observed a bilateral shared eagerness to forge ahead.

As far as the Ukrainian issue is concerned, the American secretary for foreign affairs has put forward a number of proposals, and we will be responding to that. We, after all, met by request of the two presidents and it is -- it was with that objective that we met here and the idea was to look at what we have to work through, what the presidents could actually talk about at some future summit.

[08:50:20]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Is it true that there is some kind of a two-stage process to bring the Ukrainian conflict to an end envisaged? And on the question of safeguards to Ukraine, can you say something about that?

LAVROV (through translator): Well, as far as your first question is concerned, I hadn't seen that information or any statements to that effect. I found a reference to the statement made by the Foreign Minister of Poland, Radoslaw Sikorski, who said in the margins of the Munich conference that Kellogg was going to meet the Europeans. And he talked about a possible plan for the future. He didn't actually say whether it was two or three points. Sikorski said that it was an atypical plan, but it could be very interesting.

And I asked Rubio today and Waltz, what that actually means, and he said that was a fake. The second issue on the question of information that the States is trying to find out what the E.U. is doing and how the Americans could help and contribute to that. I asked about that, but I also noted or mentioned that this particular subject of deploying some kind of peacekeeping forces, supposedly after the end of the conflict, and whether some kind of agreement would be reached about contingents, and whether that would be interested -- of interest to the Americans and which countries would be involved and so on and so forth. I was sort of getting at the E.U., but we learned from our interlocutors that they noted that President Trump in various statements, he made -- said quite clearly that dragging Ukraine into the -- into NATO was one of the main reasons for the conflict emerging. And this was the fault of Biden and his administration.

And that Trump as president would not allow that. In that connection, we explained to our colleagues that President Putin has stressed on a number of occasions that the decision of NATO to swallow up Ukraine is a direct threaten to Russia's sovereignty. And therefore, we explain today that the appearance of forces -- armed forces from the same NATO countries, but under some other flag, the flag of the E.U. or national flags, doesn't change anything. And of course, that's unacceptable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The position (inaudible) Donetsk. What about the involvement of the E.U. at the negotiating tables?

LAVROV (through translator): Well, as far as the latest move has -- is concerned about the energy situation in Kazakhstan or using Kazakhstan energy, I think you can see a lot of reasons here.

[08:55:00]

Or guess what lies at the root of all that, orders given by here, for example. But, this should strengthen everybody in their opinion, that this situation simply cannot continue. That this man and his team must see reason. Maybe our U.S. colleagues can actually bring in a kind of moratorium on these energy supplies. But we have never jeopardized the supply of energy to the population. And it would seem that his plan is simply to directly help the armed forces of Ukraine.

There is -- or there was the question of a Black Sea deal with Turkey and to make sure that protect that sites were protected. We agreed to that. And what was your second question? I forget.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: [Foreign Language].

LAVROV (through translator): The statements of the E.U. about being present at the negotiating table. I don't know, but the negotiations are afoot. Romania said something recently, I don't want to guess.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Ukraine has said that it wouldn't acknowledge the outcome of the talks between Russia and U.S. What do you think about that?

LAVROV (through translator): Well, I don't think we need to go into detail about that because the subject was discussed in detail by President Putin, and I think there's an end to it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What should Russia do to prevent Ukraine torpedoing the resumption of relations between Russia and U.S.A.?

LAVROV (through translator): Well, I think that we cannot allow any torpedoing of our relations with the U.S. We have to actually resume, them get them back on track. We discussed absolutely not everything that separates us, but we did decide on approach -- an approach which was based on the telephone calls between our two presidents. And we felt the full determination on the part of our American colleagues to move forward -- to move forward as the presidents told them to. And we will be working on that. Thank you.

MACFARLANE: We're going in for the top of the hour.

[09:00:00]