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Supreme Court Hears Discrimination Case; Elon Musk Attends First Trump Cabinet Meeting. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired February 26, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

VITTORIA ELLIOTT, POWER AND PLATFORMS REPORTER, "WIRED": But it does seems that she's someone who people are at least familiar with, who they -- has -- as much as she's come in sort of from -- with the DOGE side, that she's someone that people are familiar with.

[11:30:09]

But I don't really think we know a ton at this point, because she's also kept quite a low profile.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: I was struck by these 21 -- I believe it was 21 Digital Service members who put out this letter saying, we're resigning based on what's happening here. We're not comfortable with what's going on with DOGE.

A move like that, does that embolden Elon Musk? I mean, this is what he wants, right? He wants people to leave. He wants to cut down the federal work force. And if you can't do the job, OK, goodbye.

ELLIOTT: I mean, I think people are trying to make the most ethical decisions that they feel they can at this moment.

And I think a lot of federal workers that are in that position are sort of in a situation where they feel that in order to uphold what they believe to be the ethics of their work and their loyalty to the Constitution that -- are eventually going to be fired for trying to do their jobs for, say, protect access to sensitive data, to possibly protect their staff from being fired.

So I think, at some point, many of these people are sort of making the decision not between keeping their jobs and leaving their jobs, but between leaving their jobs on their own terms and being fired.

HILL: And perhaps their own personal values and morals and where they feel and where they stand on things.

There has been much made of what constituents have been saying to lawmakers as they're going home meeting with them. Is there any sense that is having an impact in Washington?

ELLIOTT: I don't know yet. And I think that may take time. I -- certain representatives have said that their constituents calling them and speaking to them has made a difference. There are congresspeople, particularly in the DMV area, who are

clearly facing pressure through from people in their own constituents who are federal workers who are starting to hold town halls. So we may see some movement on that. I think a really critical thing to understand is that, while there are many federal workers in D.C., there are federal workers spread throughout the country.

I think the statistic is something like there's only 15 percent of the federal work force is actually based in D.C. There are bureaus and places all over the country. So I do think the cuts will eventually be something that representatives from all over the country are going to hear about and are going to see their districts impacted by.

But I also think we're seeing DOGE run roughshod over congressionally established and funded agencies like USAID. And even if it's not a primary concern of a congressperson's constituents, that is a real threat to their power, to their ability to fund and maintain these agencies, for their ability to have the power of the purse.

And so even if their constituents are not calling them, they should be invested in figuring out what's happening with DOGE and really sort of understanding whether or not DOGE is breaking some real rules.

HILL: Yes, yes, it's such an important point.

Vittoria Elliott, really appreciate it. Thank you.

ELLIOTT: Thank you so much.

HILL: We are again keeping an eye there on the White House, as we wait for this Cabinet meeting to begin, a Cabinet meeting that will also, of course, include Elon Musk.

We will take a quick break here. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:38:25]

HILL: Well, as we await the president's first Cabinet meeting, we're learning more about Elon Musk and possible conflicts of interest for the billionaire, who is looking to transform government with his DOGE team.

CNN's Rene Marsh joining me now.

So, Rene, you have done so much reporting on this, on Elon Musk, on these possible conflicts of interest with contracts from businesses. Walk us through what you found and what it could mean even in today's meeting.

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, I think that's what's so extraordinary, Erica, about today's meeting is that what we're going to see on display is this blurring of the lines, really, of the private interests with the public government. And, for so long, there has been just this line there, and now Elon

Musk is kind of starting the process of wiping that all away, because, in many ways, he is calling the shots at a lot of these agencies where the Cabinet secretaries will be present at this meeting, from determining which contracts to be canceled, to slimming down the work force at these agencies, to even freezing contracts that these agencies have committed to.

I know, in the case of the Department of Energy, we had some reporting where the energy secretary had not even gotten into the building yet following confirmation, and already grants had been frozen at that agency.

So there's certainly this influence of Elon Musk outside of these agencies, but it's happening all while he remains with lots of business before these government agencies, whether it be contracts that has made him the billionaire that he is today, these government contracts, as well as these agencies serving as regulatory oversight over his business interests.

[11:40:02]

So it makes it a hard argument to make that these agencies will be able to work independently and do their mission, despite his sprawling business interests that come before them in many ways, when they see him sitting in the same room as the president of the United States for this very important Cabinet meeting.

So that's what's really sticking out to me, again, just this blurring of the private lines, the government lines, Elon Musk unelected, hasn't been confirmed by the Senate to run any of these agencies and has played such a role in what we have seen so far playing out at these agencies, from the mass firings to frozen funds -- Erica.

HILL: Right, and the lack of transparency in many cases too that is also adding to that.

MARSH: Right.

HILL: Rene, really appreciate it. Thank you.

Just moments ago, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments in a case that could impact laws against discrimination. So it involves a straight white woman who claims that her gay boss passed her over for promotion. The case has gotten national attention, as President Trump rails against DEI programs.

CNN's chief legal affairs correspondent, Paula Reid, joining me now.

So, this case, what exactly is being challenged here?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Erica, this is a fascinating case.

And in listening to the arguments over the past hour or so, I mean, this is one of the few times where you really see unity across all of the justices. Here, this woman, Marlean Ames, as you noted, she's a straight white woman. She worked at the Ohio Department of Youth Services.

And she claimed that she was discriminated against by her gay boss. She says that her boss denied her a promotion and then demoted her and then she alleges that less qualified gay colleagues got the job over her. But she is specifically challenging the way members of majority groups, as a straight white woman she would be part of the majority in this country, have to bring discrimination claims.

Because if you're a member of the majority in at least five circuits across the country, you have to bring what is called background circumstances evidence into the case. Now, that could be, for example, a statistical evidence documenting a pattern of discrimination against the majority group.

This is something that members of minority groups do not have to do. And it is notable that the court, the High Court, is taking out this case as President Trump is really pushing back against diversity, equity and inclusion efforts in the workplace.

But in listening to the arguments, I mean, the justices were clearly skeptical of the state of Ohio's case, because the Ohio Department of Youth Services, they argued that, if you take away this higher standard, this extra work that you need to do, that that will open the floodgates for pretty much every single workplace discrimination case to find its way into the courts.

But even Justice Sonia Sotomayor, she really pressed the lawyer for the Youth Services Department, saying, look, if you look at the facts, there's nothing wrong with asking this employer, hey, why didn't she get this promotion? Why was she demoted?

So it appears that Ms. Ames could very likely win this case whenever the decision is announced.

HILL: It will be interesting to see what the fallout is from that.

Paula, there's also -- because it's never a quiet day in Washington, the Senate Judiciary Committee, I know, also holding hearings today to examine some pending nominations. What are we waiting on?

REID: Yes, these are some big ones, Erica, for example, the solicitor general.

John Sauer, he's previously represented President Trump in some of his ongoing cases. He is up for solicitor general, which is the official lawyer who argues on behalf of the United States in front of the Supreme Court. Now, this is multiple nominees being heard, being tested at the same time.

Harmeet Dhillon, also another former Trump lawyer, she is up to head the Civil Rights Division. And this is really an important...

HILL: Paula, I'm going to have to interrupt you. I'm sorry.

But it looks like we do have the Cabinet assembled and we see the president speaking.

Let's listen in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... solve a lot of problems.

We're doing very well with Russia-Ukraine. President Zelenskyy is going to be coming on Friday. That's now confirmed. And we're going to be signing an agreement, which will be a very big agreement. And I want to thank Howard and Scott for the job you guys did in putting it together.

You really did an amazing job. And that will be on rare earth and other things. And, as you know, we're in for probably $350 billion. Europe is in for $1 million -- $100 billion. And that's a big difference. So we're in for probably three times as much. And yet it's very important to everybody, but Europe is very close.

We have a big ocean separating us. So it's very important for Europe. And they hopefully will step up and do maybe more than they're doing and maybe a lot more. The previous administration put us in a very bad position, but we have been able to make a deal where we're going to get our money back and we're going to get a lot of money in the future.

And I think that's appropriate because we have taxpayers that are -- shouldn't be footing the bill. And they shouldn't be footing the bill at more than the Europeans are paying.

[11:45:02]

So it's all been worked out. We're happy about it. And I think that, very importantly, we're going to be able to make a deal. Most importantly, by far, we're going to make a deal with Russia and Ukraine to stop killing people. They will stop killing young Russian soldiers and young Ukrainian soldiers and other people in addition in the towns and cities.

And we will consider that a very important thing and a big accomplishment, because it was going nowhere until this administration came in. They hadn't spoken to President Putin in two years. And so we will keep you advised.

Before we begin the Cabinet, I'd like to have Scott and a couple of people say a few things. But, most importantly, where are you?

SCOTT TURNER, U.S. HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT SECRETARY: I'm right here, sir.

TRUMP: This is a gentleman who's going places, the head of HUD, and he's going to say -- you all know him. And you're going to say grace.

TURNER: Yes, sir.

TRUMP: And then we will have our meeting, right? Thank you very much.

TURNER: Thank you, Mr. President. Let's pray.

Father, we thank you for this awesome privilege, father, to be in your presence. God, thank you that you have allowed us to see this day. The Bible says that your mercies are new every morning. And, father God, we give you the glory and the honor.

Thank you, God, for President Trump, father, for appointing us. Father God, thank you for anointing us to do this job. Father, we pray you will give the president and the vice president wisdom, Father God, as they lead.

Father, I pray for all of my colleagues that are here around the table and in this room. Father God, we pray that we would lead with a righteous clarity, Father God, that, as we serve the people of this country in every prospective agency, every job that we have, father, we would humble ourselves before you and we would lead in the manner that you have called us to lead and to serve.

Father, the Bible says that blessed is the nation whose God is the lord. Well, father, we today honor you. And, in your rightful place, father, thank you for giving us this opportunity to restore faith in this country and be a blessing to the people of America.

And, lord God, today, in our meeting, we pray that you will be glorified in our conversation.

In Jesus' name, amen.

CABINET: Amen.

TRUMP: Scott, that was a very good job you did. You have done that before, haven't you?

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: So, Scott Turner is a terrific young guy. He's heading up HUD, and he's going to make us all very proud, right?

TURNER: Thank you, Mr. President. Yes, sir.

TRUMP: Thank you very much. Great job.

In just over one month, illegal border crossings have plummeted by numbers that nobody has actually ever seen before. It's much more than 100 percent. And we have unleashed American energy at levels that will soon be reported. But we think we're going to get it going very quickly. We have incredible people on the energy front.

I think we have really great people on every front. I will let you know if they're not good, but I think they really are. And we're fighting every day to get the prices down. The inflation is stopping, slowly. But part of the reason it's stopping is because of high interest rates and other problems that we inherited. But we have to get the prices down, not the inflation down, the prices

of eggs and various other things. Eggs are a disaster. The secretary of agriculture is going to be showing you a chart that's actually mind-boggling, what's happened, how low they were with us and how high they are now.

But I think we can do something about it, Madam Secretary. And I think you're going to do a fantastic job in that position.

One of the most important initiatives is DOGE. And we have cut billions and billions and billions of dollars. We're looking to get it maybe to a trillion dollars. If we can do that, we're going to start getting to be at a point where we can think in terms of balancing budgets, believe it or not, something you haven't heard in many, many years, decades, actually.

And that's a big -- whether it's this year or next year, I think we will be very close to balancing budgets. And DOGE is very important. And Elon is here to give you a summary of what's happening, some of the things they found, some of the horrible things they have found, some of the theft and fraud.

And we call it waste and abuse, but a lot of fraud, and probably some fraud that we're not going to be able to prove is fraud. But when you hear the names and the places where this money is going, it's a disgrace.

But we have requested that a lot of people -- we want to make sure that the people are working. So letters were sent down, and I think every one at this table is very much behind it. And, if they aren't, I would want them to speak up, but they're very much behind it.

Letters were sent out to people just to find out if the people exist. Do they work? Who do they work for? Where are they? Where have they been working? Have they been working for other companies or other entities at all, and being paid by the government? So they have two jobs, but they're supposed to have one.

And the letter asks some simple questions, like what have you done lately? And they can answer that, because I can. I can tell you everything I have done for the last long period of time, a lot more than a week.

[11:50:12]

And, in many cases, we haven't gotten responses. Usually, that means that maybe that person doesn't exist or that person doesn't want to say they're working for another company while being paid by the United States government.

So, there's a lot of interesting things. It's very unique, but we have a very unique situation, because we have a lot of people that were scamming our country. We have a lot of dishonest people. We have a lot of people that took advantage of a lot of different situations. So we're not going to let that happen. So I'm going to ask, if it's possible, to have Elon get up first and

talk about DOGE, because it seems to be of great interest to everyone. I will say that there is a large group of people in this country that have such admiration for what we're doing.

I got elected with a tremendous vote, winning every swing state, winning the popular vote, winning the counties by thousands of counties. I think it was 2,800 to 500, 2,800 counties to 500 counties. Think of that. And so we have a mandate to do this. And this is part of the reason I got elected.

I got elected based on taxes and based on many things, and the border, but also based on balancing budgets and getting our country back into shape. And this is a big part of it.

So, Elon, if you could get up and explain where you are, how you're doing, and how much we're cutting. And it's an honor to have you.

He's been a tremendously successful guy. He's really working so hard. And he's got businesses to run. And, in many ways, they say, how do you do this? And it's -- he's sacrificing a lot and take -- getting a lot of praise, I will tell you. But he's also getting hit. And we would expect that.

And that's the way it works. So, I'd like to have Elon Musk please say a few words.

Thank you, Elon.

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: Thank you, Mr. President.

Well, I actually just call myself the humble tech support here.

(LAUGHTER)

MUSK: Because this is actually -- as crazy as it sounds, that is almost a literal description of the work that the DOGE team is doing, is helping fix the government computer systems.

Many of these systems are extremely old. They don't communicate. There are a lot of mistakes in the systems. The software doesn't work. The -- so we are actually tech support. It's ironic, but it's true.

The overall goal here with the DOGE team is to help address the enormous deficit. We simply cannot sustain a country at $2 trillion deficits. The interest rates -- just the interest on the national debt now exceeds the Defense Department spending.

We spend a lot on the Defense Department, but we're spending like over a trillion dollars on interest. If this continues, the country will go -- become de facto bankrupt. It's not an optional thing. It is an essential thing. That's the reason I'm here, and taking a lot of flak and getting a lot of death threats, by the way. I mean, like, stack them up, you know? But if we don't do this, America will go bankrupt. That's why it has

to be done. And I'm confident at this point -- knock on wood -- knock on my wooden head -- the...

(LAUGHTER)

MUSK: There's a lot of wood up there -- that we can actually find a trillion dollars in savings. That would be roughly 15 percent of the $7 trillion budget.

And, obviously, that can only be done with the support of everyone in this room. And I'd like to thank everyone for your support. Thank you very much. This can only be done with your support.

So this is -- it's really -- DOGE, it's a support function for the president and for the agencies and departments to help achieve those savings and to affect effectively find 15 percent in reduction in fraud and waste.

And we bring the receipts. So, people say, like, well, is this real? Just go to DOGE.gov. We -- line item by line on, we specify each item. So -- and we -- and I should say we also -- we will make mistakes. We won't be perfect. But when we make mistake, we will fix it very quickly.

So, for example, with USAID, one of the things we accidentally canceled very briefly was Ebola, Ebola prevention. I think we all want Ebola prevention. So we restored the Ebola prevention immediately. And there was no interruption.

But we do need to move quickly if we're -- if we're to achieve a trillion-dollar deficit reduction in -- in financial year 2026. It requires saving $4 billion per day every day from now through the end of September.

But we can do it. And we will do it. Thank you.

[11:55:02]

TRUMP: Well, do you have any questions of Elon while we're on the subject of DOGE? Because we will finish off with that.

And if you would have any questions, please ask. You could ask me or Elon. Go ahead, please.

QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Mr. Musk.

I just wanted to ask you. The -- President Trump put out a TRUTH Social today saying that everybody in the Cabinet was happy with you. I just wondered if that -- if you had heard otherwise and if you had heard anything about members of the Cabinet who weren't happy with the way things were going. And, if so, what are you doing to address those -- any dissatisfaction?

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Let the Cabinet speak just for a second.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: Is anybody unhappy with Elon?

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: If you are, we will throw him out of here.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: Is anybody unhappy?

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: They are. They have a lot of respect for Elon, and that he's doing this. And some disagree a little bit, but I will tell you, for the most part, I think everyone's not only happy. They're thrilled.

So go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grateful.

MUSK: President Trump has put together, I think, the best Cabinet ever, literally.

So -- and I do not give false praise. This is an incredible group of people. I don't think such a talented team has actually ever been assembled. I think it's literally the best Cabinet that the country's ever had. And I think the company (sic) should be incredibly appreciative of the people in this room.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Thank you.

Go ahead, please. Yes, go ahead.

QUESTION: Mr. President, thank you.

Mr. Musk, other -- about half of the government employees so far have here responded to your request for what they have been doing over the past week. Is there a timeline in place for next moves, for people being fired? And when can the American people expect to see results of that?

MUSK: Yes.

Well, to be clear, like, the -- I think that e-mail perhaps was best interpreted as a performance review, but actually it was a pulse check review. Do you have a pulse?

(LAUGHTER)

MUSK: Do you have a pulse and two neurons?

(LAUGHTER)

MUSK: So, if you have a pulse at two neurons, you can reply to an e- mail. This is, I think, not a high bar, is what I'm saying.

This is -- should be -- anyone could accomplish this. But what we are trying to get to the bottom of is, we think there are a number of people on the government payroll who are dead, which is probably why they can't respond,and some people who are not real people, like, they're literally fictional individuals that are collecting paychecks.

Well, somebody's collecting paychecks on a fictional individual. So we're just literally trying to figure out, are these people real, are they alive, and can they write an e-mail, which I think is a reasonable expectation for the American -- the American public would have at least that expectation of someone in the public sector.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Mr. Musk, roughly a million employees...

MUSK: This is not a -- it's not a high bar, guys. Come on.

(LAUGHTER)

QUESTION: Roughly a million employees have responded so far to this e-mail. Does that mean that the remaining one million or so federal employees now risk being terminated? And is it your understanding and expectation, when you post a directive on X, that the Cabinet secretaries will follow that order?

Because several agencies have instructed employees that this is voluntary or not to respond.

MUSK: Yes. Well, I mean, to your -- so I guess it was -- like, last week, the president encouraged me via TRUTH Social and also via a phone call to be more aggressive.

And I was like, OK, yes, sir, Mr. President. We will indeed do that. Look, the president is the commander in chief. I do what the president asks. So -- and I said, can we send out an e-mail to everyone just saying, what did you get done last week? And the president said yes. So I did that.

And we got a partial response. We're going to send another e-mail. But our goal is not to be capricious or unfair. It's -- we want to give people every opportunity to send an e-mail. And the e-mail could simply be, what I'm working on is too sensitive or classified to describe.

Like, literally, just -- that would be sufficient. And I think this is just common sense.

QUESTION: And what is your target number for how many workers, employees you're looking to cut total? MUSK: We wish to keep everyone who is doing a job that is essential

and doing that job well.

But if the job is not essential or they're not doing the job well, they obviously should not be on the public payroll.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I'd like to add...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Wait a minute. Wait. Wait.

I would like to add that those million people that haven't responded though, Elon, they are on the bubble. I wouldn't say that we're thrilled about it. They haven't responded. Now, maybe they don't exist. Maybe we're paying people that don't exist. Don't forget, we just got here. This group just got here.

But those people are on the bubble, as they say. Maybe they're going to be gone. Maybe they're not around. Maybe they have other jobs. Maybe they moved and they're not where they're supposed to be.