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CNN International: U.S. Markets Tumble; Trump Refuses to Rule Out Recession; Tech Stocks Hit Hard Monday; U.S. to Hold Talks with Ukraine in Saudi Arabia; Landmark Deal in Syria; Ships Collide Off English Coast; Pro-Palestinian Activist Arrested by U.S. Immigration Officials; 9th Annual My Freedom Day; Greenland Prepares to Vote. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired March 10, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers, joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, D.C.

Just ahead this hour, markets tumble in the U.S. as President Trump refuses to rule out a recession and warns of what he called a period of transition. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says he wants to hear what concessions Ukraine is willing to make to end the ongoing war with Russia, which of course resulted from Russia's invasion. He's ahead of talks in Saudi Arabia. And a Palestinian activist who helped lead Columbia University protests is fighting deportation after his arrest by U.S. immigration agents.

We begin with the sharp sell off on Wall Street today as investors react to President Trump's refusal to rule out a recession and U.S. corporations bracing for another week of negative tariff headlines. All the major U.S. averages finish the session with major losses. The tech heavy NASDAQ, the hardest hit, tumbling some 4 percent, the Dow more than 2 percent, the broader S&P 500 close to 3. At one point the Dow was down more than a thousand points.

The Trump administration on Monday attempted to play down recession fears with the head of the White House National Economic Council saying he does not see a recession this year. Officials clearly trying to control the damage after President Trump's economic warning. This during a Fox News interview that aired Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But are you expecting a recession this year?

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I hate to predict things like that. There is a period of transition, because what we're doing is very big. We're bringing wealth back to America. That's a big thing. And there are always periods of -- it takes a little time. It takes a little time. But I don't -- I think it should be great for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The stock drop comes as 15 percent Chinese retaliatory tariffs kick in for many U.S. farm products. That's a big blow to the U.S. agricultural sector. And just days before, U.S. tariffs on all steel and aluminum imports are set to rise to 25 percent. Stephen Collinson joins me now.

And what's interesting about the comments, of course, President Trump doesn't have control himself. He can't turn the switch on and off as to whether there's going to be a recession. So, it's not really him -- for him to rule it out, but he does have policies that are clearly causing some issues on the stock market.

It strikes me that this -- with the stock market was reacting to what was Trump indicating he almost doesn't care, right? In other words, saying, prepare for the cost, I'm comfortable with the cost, and you should be too.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Right. He doesn't care, and then those comments, he didn't really seem to know. There was no certainty from the president there. It seemed like he was almost making up as he goes along.

Trump -- if you can think of one word that defines Trump, it's volatility. We've seen it in the last six weeks. One day the tariffs are on, one day the tariffs are off. That's the political weapon he uses to wrong foot his adversaries to keep the world on edge because he thinks that gives him an advantage. The problem is, at a time of economic concern with a softening economy, consumers are really worried about what's going to happen the next six months. That is exactly the wrong attitude.

Now, you know, the U.S. economy has been very resilient. Lots of people have been predicting recession. The last real recession apart from the COVID recession we had was back in 2008, '09. So, the White House could be right. This could be a blip, but when you hear economic advisors saying, there's going to be a transition, there might be a little pain. To me that reminds me a lot of when the Biden White House was talking about inflation being a transitory affair. And we all know how badly that worked out.

SCIUTTO: You know, the uncertainty -- the thing about the uncertainty is it extends far beyond President Trump's economic policies, you know, tariffs one day, pulled back the next day, promised the day after that, it's a broader uncertainty and change regarding America's relationship with the world, relationships with the world, it's allies, it's adversaries.

COLLINSON: Right. Think about what Trump's trying to do. He's trying to change the U.S. economy, fundamentally turn back decades worth of pro free trade policies. He's trying to change the world. He's attacking U.S. friends and siding with U.S. adversaries like Vladimir Putin. That's changed -- that's caused massive geopolitical tumult.

[18:05:00]

He's promising that he's going to take America to a new golden age. It's very difficult, though, to see how we get from here to there. Investors, for example, who understand markets and who understand that tariffs do not bring billions of dollars into a country, they make consumers pay more. That's politically very unsettling for people.

SCIUTTO: We we're speaking to folks around the world, including in Asia, as Asia wakes up this morning. You have China and Russia, who in the view of U.S. intelligence agencies military and others through multiple administrations, have assessed are interested in seeing a weaker America and a weaker U.S. role in the world. Is it safe to say they're celebrating seeing America suffer here?

COLLINSON: I think they are pretty pleased with how it's going so far in the Trump administration. When you talk to foreign diplomats and governments, they say they can deal with change from the United States. But they need predictability, just as someone in a business in Michigan needs predictability to, you know, fill out their inventory for the years ahead, just as a farmer in Iowa needs predictability so they can take a loan, so they can buy the seed.

So, what Trump has taken away from the world is predictability and stability. The United States, for decades, was the main source of predictability in foreign policy, obviously there are aberrations. Now, that is all gone. And it seems like economic policy, trade policy, foreign policy is just being created at the whim of the U.S. president. And that's very unsettling to people because they don't know how to react.

SCIUTTO: And, of course, unpredictability can lead to miscommunication, reactions and that's a concern as well. Stephen Collinson, thanks so much.

Well, some of the so-called Magnificent 7 tech stocks that helped lead the market higher last year were among the worst performers today. That includes Tesla, of course, Elon Musk's Tesla, which tumbled 15 percent in one day it is now down more than 40 percent close to half its value this year alone. A.I. chip heavyweight NVIDIA fell 5 percent, it's down more than 20 percent today.

Alissa Coram the executive editor of Investor's Business Daily joins me now. I wonder when you spoke to -- speak to people involved in this market, do they see this as a blip or do they see it part of a broader reassessment not just to the value of stocks, but also the direction of the U.S. economy?

ALISSA CORAM, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY: Look, I think fear is ramping up. You see that in the vix (ph). But I think for a lot of investors who have been in those Magnificent 7 and A.I. stocks that you were just talking about, that's been what's fueling the market higher over the last couple of years. And I think a lot of retail investors are still stuck in the mindset of, hey, these are big winners. There's still a lot of promise in A.I. as a story. And in terms of the rollout, especially if you're comparing that to the internet age.

So, I think there's a lot of people out there who are still hanging on and thinking, hey, maybe the, with the long-term picture still being positive, they're still hanging on. So, I don't know if we've really flushed out and gotten the fear that maybe we need for the market to bounce back other than a short-term oversold bounce. So, we'll have to see how it plays out, but I do think there are a lot of traders out there who are still hanging on to these Magnificent 7 stocks, and I think it's time to break up with them.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you a basic question. Are there any investors or analysts you speak with who say that tariffs are good for stocks, good for the stock market in general, good for the outlook for the U.S. economy?

CORAM: So, I'm going to leave that to the economists. But I think in terms of the stock market reaction, the market is trying to price that in, right? And lately, I think more and more with the economic picture getting more cloudy on top of concerns that we've already seen with inflation and a weakening consumer, this is just exacerbating that. So, the concerns are mounting there.

I think the long-term picture, if you're looking at tax cuts and A.I., that is still what is bringing hope, I think, to investors, but the tariff issue and the weakening economic picture as well, I think that's what's clouding investors' minds right now. And I think a lot of folks out there have already had sort of knee jerk responses to any and all economic data any quote from Jerome Powell. So, this is adding fuel to the fire, I think, in terms of that anxiety.

SCIUTTO: And there had been concern, even prior to these policy changes, that the market was overpriced, right? I mean, it's been in the midst of a bull market for a number of years now, well above 40,000 for the Dow and some huge price rises for some of those Magnificent 7 stocks with questions about whether they were getting overpriced.

[18:10:00]

So, I mean, is there a case here potentially of the market looking for a reason to correct?

CORAM: So, you're absolutely right. A huge multiyear move. Even if you look at just early November to mid-December some stocks doubled during that time period. Just absolutely astounding jaw dropping moves. So, there are -- you know, there's a camp out there that's looking at those valuations and getting concerned about that. But in terms of the market's response now, at this point, you are seeing those valuations come down.

And if you do take that step back from the outside, looking in, that ultimately can be a good thing. The corrections aren't fun when you're in the middle of them, but afterwards, they lead to some huge opportunities. Like, if you look at 2022, that was a bad bear market, but there were so many opportunities coming out of that. So, I think that's what I'm looking at now is, OK, what are those opportunities going to be coming out of this when you do get a little bit of the repricing of the valuations and with the A.I. theme, I think now investors are moving towards, OK, what are the applications that are going to be impacted by A.I.? So, more on the software side and away from the NVIDIAs in terms of the A.I. infrastructure type plays.

SCIUTTO: Alissa Coram, executive editor of Investor's Business Daily, thanks so much for joining.

CORAM: Thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: U.S. Rubio says the U.S. wants to see what concessions are Ukraine is willing to offer up ahead of peace talks in Saudi Arabia. Rubio, and the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, both arrived in Jeddah on Monday. Zelenskyy looking to set the tone of the conference early saying, quote, "peace is our shared goal."

Alex Marquardt joins us now from Jeddah, and I wonder, did the U.S. secretary of state articulate what concessions they're expecting from Russia, or any expectation of concessions to move these talks forward?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Sorry, Jim, you're breaking up a little bit, but in terms of the concessions that the U.S. is specifically looking for, Rubio didn't lay it out.

It's clear that there are two goals here. One is to get this U.S.- Ukraine relationship essentially back on track after a really rough past two weeks following that incredible meeting that we saw in the Oval Office. The second is more specific to this potential peace deal that could be struck with Russia. And we've all heard this criticism from the Trump administration that Ukrainians haven't been wanting it enough, haven't been doing enough to achieve that goal.

So, Rubio coming here told reporters that he's in listening mode, that he wants to hear what difficult decisions the Ukrainians might be ready to make, what concessions they might be ready to make. He didn't lay them out but we know that, of course, that could mean territorial concessions. It could mean things like NATO membership. It could mean elections and President Zelenskyy's political future.

Rubio did say they're not going to be pulling out the maps and drawing lines or anything like that. But the way that he put it is he wants to hear what concessions are in the realm of the possible. Jim, there's also the question about this military and intelligence assistance that has been frozen, put on hold, that could severely impact the Ukrainians.

Rubio says that only -- that the defensive intelligence assistance has continued, but of course, in a war like this, where they are getting attacked by the Russians, anything that the Ukrainians are doing could be considered defensive, whether that tap is turned back on will hinge on tomorrow's meeting, Rubio says, he says that will be key.

So, Jim, this is the second step in this process of trying to get the Russians and the Ukrainians to the table. The first step was three weeks ago when Rubio and others met with the Russians. They are trying to bridge the gaps. They're trying to understand both sides. They are taking very different approaches with both sides. But eventually, the hope is for the U.S. to get both the Russians and the Ukrainians to the same negotiating table, of course, with Saudi assistance. Jim.

SCIUTTO: But has the secretary of state articulated any concession the Trump administration is asking from Russia or is all the talk only what Ukraine is willing to give up? MARQUARDT: Well, what they are now floating is the possibility of tariffs and, of course, sanctions. Now, we have heard the Trump administration, Keith Kellogg, I'm thinking of, the Ukraine envoy, he has talked about territorial concessions. So, that would mean the Russians essentially pulling back. There's also the possibility of the Russians having to deal with a peacekeeping force. We've heard the Trump administration say the U.S. won't be involved in that. That was seen as a concession to the to the Russians as well.

[18:15:00]

So, the focus when it comes to what the Russians would have to give up is territorial concessions and a broader acceptance that Ukraine, for example, would remain militarized, that the Russians might not have a say in the political future of someone like President Zelenskyy. Of course, they're still dangling the possibility, or at least Zelenskyy is pushing for the possibility that he will remain in NATO, that's -- or go into NATO, that's something that we have heard President Trump essentially rule out. But the main focus in terms of concessions that the U.S. would expect from Russia, Jim, are territorial.

SCIUTTO: And we should note, Russia invaded Ukraine. And therefore. took that territory illegally. Alex Marquardt in Jeddah, thanks so much.

Coming up, Syria's interim government is claiming a major victory in its effort to unify the country after the worst fighting there in months.

And a fiery collision in the North Sea. Two large vessels collide, one loaded with jet fuel, the other carrying a highly toxic chemical. More details coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Returning now to those Ukraine peace talks in Saudi Arabia. Joining me now is Maria Snegovaya, senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Thanks so much for joining.

MARIA SNEGOVAYA, SENIOR FELLOW, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES AND CSIS EUROPE, RUSSIA AND EURASIA PROGRAM: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: I wonder when you hear the U.S. secretary of state say he's waiting to hear what concessions Ukraine wants to make without seeming to apply any public pressure on Russia as these talks begin, is the U.S. entering these talks as a balanced mediator, in your view?

SNEGOVAYA: Well, does not really look exactly the same way. At the very least, based on the public statement on the U.S. administration we have seen a lot of pressure, not just verbal, but also actual steps, actions applied on Ukraine, including voting with Russia in the U.N. General Assembly and Security Council, cutting off military aid and intelligence that Ukraine has been receiving on the -- from the U.S. cyber operations with Russia have been halted, to our knowledge, as well as the -- most recently, the G7 proposal for a task force to combat Russian shadow fleet was also vetoed by the U.S. side.

[18:20:00]

So, these are not just words but actions. Yet when it comes to pressure on Russia, we haven't really seen anything like it at all. We have seen President Trump saying that he may reinforce sanctions on Russia. But again, this was just one verbal like statement that's weak, but there was no really any follow up actions. It seems so far quite farfetched.

We also have seen Congressman Lindsey Graham proposing some round of sanctions on Russia going forward, and maybe that will be actual evidence of U.S. pressure on Russia. But so far, certainly, Ukraine seems to be the side that's getting, at least in public, much more pressured by the U.S. administration than Russia is.

SCIUTTO: Trump said in that infamous Oval Office meeting to President Zelenskyy, Ukraine has no cards in this war. You make the case, in your own analysis, that it actually does, that its performance over the last three years has been remarkable against a much larger military rival, and that it is actually Russia that is reaching the limits of its military and economic capabilities. Can you make that case for us?

SNEGOVAYA: Absolutely. Well, I'll be clear, right, that Ukraine certainly is not in the great position, at the best possible position. It certainly has manpower issues. Having said that, Ukraine unilaterally has -- with of course some Western assistance, but nonetheless, primarily through the incredible courage and commitment of its people, has been holding Russia, the allegedly second largest army in the world, and the country, that's on paper, far supersedes Ukraine's own capabilities and resources in terms of manpower, economic resources, military resources.

And yet, we have seen that, as of now, Russia has not even able to achieve its alleged minimalist, so-called minimalist goals in Ukraine, which means, quote/unquote, in Putin's terms "denazification" of Luhansk and Donetsk regions of Ukraine, meaning in reality occupation. Even that has not been achieved.

In Russia, while it is pushing through, it is doing so at tremendous cost. It's losing about 30,000 to 45,000 people per month by occupying and a few small Ukrainian villages. And this situation has been lasting for quite some time. So, Russia is really unable to radically alter the situation on the ground in Ukraine as of now and it is also unable to even achieve its minimalist goals, not to forget that the real ambition of Putin at the start of the war was to occupy Kyiv and really alter Ukraine's political situation. None of that has happened.

So, Ukraine certainly deserves a lot of credit. Even if, again, as I said, for both countries on the ground, the situation is not ideal at the moment.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SNEGOVAYA: But of course, Ukraine, ideally, with some Western support, could hold this line. And at the very least, the U.S. could target a stalemate, not pressuring Ukraine to surrender.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, because in your commentary, you stated that if the U.S. continues to stop aiding Ukraine, and that Europe is able to replace at least some, perhaps a significant portion of that support that it would, quote, "significantly reduce the relevance of the United States in the conflict. Is that a potential and perhaps underreported potential outcome that the U.S. could play itself out of this by taking such a position that of sort of peace at any costs?

SNEGOVAYA: Well, absolutely. Because we have seen that some of the statements on the side of the U.S. administration have been met with a lot of resistance on the side of both Ukrainian society but also European allies. And Europe is currently, as we speak, basically is forced to seek out substitutes for the U.S. assistance, including, most importantly, the intelligence sharing and the air defense. These are the two areas where the U.S. is particularly important for Ukraine.

It's important to keep in mind that Ukraine, much of the action right now is happening through either Ukraine's own production of, say, drones or with the assistance of European allies. And certainly, given the current situation, Europe and Ukraine have no other options than to seek out alternatives. The problem that it is harder to do than it seems on paper.

So, certainly there are areas where the U.S. assistance is still quite critical. But nonetheless, if this push continues, and if Europe and Ukraine basically are faced to deal with new realities, they will certainly seek out the alternatives and eventually comes to substitute for the U.S. assistance.

And honestly, this wouldn't be the worst possible scenario, right? Because it is ultimately the question of European security. And in the long-term, in the long-term, this would be potentially not suboptimal for all of the parties involved. You know, Europe finally stepping up and being able to provide more. This was ultimately a long-term coming for European security.

[18:25:00]

The problem is at which cost is it going to come to Ukraine? We have seen that as a result of this ceasing of intel sharing, Ukraine has been losing a lot in the current -- in the recent weeks. And the problem is that the cost will (INAUDIBLE).

SCIUTTO: Maria Snegovaya, thanks so much for joining.

SNEGOVAYA: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Syria's interim president, Ahmad al-Sharaa, says that he has reached a deal with the Syrian Democratic Forces to integrate them into the country's new state institutions. The Kurdish-led group, which controls much of Syria's oil rich northeast, is, we should note, backed by the U.S., including with U.S. forces on the ground there.

This comes amid Syria's worst fighting since the fall of the former leader, Bashar al-Assad, since he was ousted last year. Fighting broke out between the new government and some remaining Assad loyalists. A U.K.-based monitoring group, the Syrian Network for Human Rights, reports that nearly 800 people have been killed, including civilians. Armed men linked to the new government are accused of carrying out executions.

CNN's Paula Hancocks has the latest, a warning that her report does contain graphic images.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The violence has been indiscriminate and brutal. Four days of fighting between the Syrian military and supporters of the ousted Syrian President Bashar al- Assad, an affiliated gunman adding to the deadly chaos.

779 have been killed, according to Syrian Network for Human Rights, a large proportion of them civilians. Bodies lie where they fell on the western coastal areas of Syria, majority Alawite areas, the heart of Assad's former support. Syria's leader says forces were trying to quell an insurgency, a successful operation he claims has now ended.

Speaking to Reuters. President Ahmed al-Sharaa acknowledges there were revenge killings against the Alawite community.

AHMAD AL-SHARAA, SYRIAN INTERIM PRESIDENT (through translator): Syria is a state of law. The law will take its course on all. We fought to defend the oppressed and we won't accept that any blood be shed unjustly or goes without punishment or accountability, even among those closest to us.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): Residents describe armed men setting fire to civilian homes. Syrian network for human rights spoke of, quote, "widespread field executions." An elderly man begs for his life. He is executed.

Fears of ethnic minorities being targeted have weighed heavily on optimism since the 50-year reign of the Assad family ended abruptly last December.

GARETH BROWNE, SYRIA CORRESPONDENT, THE ECONOMIST: A huge part of Ahmed al-Sharaa's project was about confidence building, particularly when it comes to Syria's minorities, the Alawites, the Druze, the Christians, the Kurds, and I think the events the last few days have absolutely ruptured that confidence.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): Authorities have now released photos of two militants accused of a separate extrajudicial killing being arrested, keen to show the fragile sense of order could be restored.

HANCOCKS: There was one significant sign of unity this Monday. The Kurdish-led and U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic Forces has agreed to merge itself into Syria's new state institutions. The agreement emphasizes a ceasefire and also its intent to support Syria in its fight against al-Assad's forces.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Abu Dhabi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Rescue teams are now searching for a missing crew member after two large ships collided off the coast -- the East Coast of England. Flames erupted in the North Sea when a container vessel containing toxic sodium cyanide and alcohol hit an anchored taker which was loaded with jet fuel. That's a volatile mix. The missing crew member was on the container ship, this according to Reuters. Authorities say 36 people were treated by ambulance services after they were taken safely to shore.

Well, a new protest in the U.S. over the arrest of a pro-Palestinian activist who helped lead demonstrations at Columbia University. What are the legal questions and implications? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Sciutto. Here are some of the international headlines we are watching today. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is in Saudi Arabia ahead of today's critical talks to end Russia's war with Ukraine following its full-scale invasion. Rubio met with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. Rubio will hold discussions with Ukrainian officials there tomorrow. The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, will not attend those talks.

Canada's new prime minister says he will not back down in a trade war with the U.S. The Liberal Party chose Mark Carney, a former central bank governor, as its new leader. He will replace Justin Trudeau as prime minister in the coming days.

Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum told supporters in Mexico City that their country's sovereignty will always come first. Thousands of people attended the rally to bolster national pride. The event originally scheduled to announce new tariffs against the U.S., Sheinbaum told the crowd that dialogue and respect had prevailed instead.

Our U.S. federal judge has temporarily blocked efforts by the Trump administration to deport Mahmoud Khalil. He's an activist who helped lead pro-Palestinian protests at Columbia University last year. Federal immigration authorities arrested him over the weekend in New York. The Homeland Security Department says the arrest follows President Trump's executive order prohibiting anti-Semitism. His attorney argues his arrest is part of government repression of student activism and political free speech and says the State Department is trying to revoke his green card.

The Trump administration recently pulled some $400 million dollars in federal funding from Columbia University saying that it failed to fight anti-Semitism on its campus. James Sample joins me now. He's a law professor at Hofstra University. Thanks so much for taking the time.

JAMES SAMPLE, PROFESSOR OF LAW, HOFSTRA UNIVERSITY: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, first off, help me understand what the law is here. Can the president simply declare that someone is anti-Semitic and deport them? And of course, he's here legally with a green card, and I should note his wife is a U.S. citizen, and deport him based on those grounds?

[18:35:00]

SAMPLE: The answer to that question is clear, Jim. And the answer is no. As a matter of law, he cannot. And I think Judge Furman's order makes it very clear that any attempt, and it seems as though -- I mean, he was arrested in New York over the weekend. As you said, he's already been moved to Louisiana in a detention facility there. I think Judge Furman's order today is an indication that the government has to tap the brakes because as a green card holder, he is a permanent resident alien. He's also, as you said, married to a United States citizen. He's entitled to constitutional protections.

Green card holders have constitutional rights and a deportability hearing at a minimum is the due process requirement to deport him, even if the government has grounds, they have to go before an immigration judge to get him deported. And the filing in the Southern District of New York in federal court is a habeas corpus petition arguing that the entire affair, to this juncture anyway, is unconstitutional and that he should be released.

SCIUTTO: What is the standard here to -- that would conceivably grant the U.S. the power to deport? In other words, what would it have to prove in that habeas corpus meeting? Would it have to prove ties to terrorism or support for terrorism? What is the legal standard?

SAMPLE: In terms of the deportation hearing that will eventually occur before an immigration judge, not necessarily at tomorrow's habeas corpus hearing. But in terms of the deportation law, the Immigration and Nationality Act has a couple of provisions that the government could charge and say that Mr. Khalil falls into those provisions.

Now, to get really technical, the key provisions here in the Immigration and Nationality Act are sections 237 and 212, and there are portions of that law that say, for example, that a person who is deemed by the secretary of state, and some of the reporting on this case, and not reporting that I can independently confirm, but some of the reporting, including by the Washington Post is that Secretary Mark Rubio has already personally weighed in this case.

If the secretary of state is of the view that a person who is in the United States legally, including as a green card holder has serious political ramifications that undermine United States foreign policy, that's one of the possible grounds. The other clearly possible ground, and both of these grounds will be subject to being contested, of course, is that there is a provision that says that somebody who is providing support, and support is ambiguously defined at best for terrorist organizations or activities can also be deported.

And so, the question will really -- the fact question in this case is going to boil down to whether or not his support, Mr. Khalil's support for, for example, an independent Palestinian State or against the policies of Israel in Gaza amounts to support for Hamas.

If it's support for Hamas, he's got a tough hill to climb. If, however, it is just speech with which the government disagrees, that is fundamentally viewpoint discrimination. And even if one might agree or disagree with the Trump administration or Mr. Khalil, wherever one falls on the underlying policy question, viewpoint discrimination is fundamentally wrong under the United States Constitution, and he has a right to at least contest the case.

SCIUTTO: I mean, then the question -- because there's obviously -- obvious freedom of expression, First Amendment issues here, because if the standard becomes -- or the argument is simply criticizing the progress of Israel's war in Gaza or supporting a Palestinian State, which, by the way, many Americans do, right, without being anti- Semitic or supporting Hamas, by the way successive American presidents have supported the idea of a Palestinian State.

SAMPLE: Of course.

SCIUTTO: So, I'm just trying to figure out what that standard would be then, because they could make that argument but if that would then broadly define support for terrorism, would it not?

SAMPLE: That it would be chilling in the extreme and I agree with your analysis, and frankly, your gut reaction entirely. The notice to appear is the government's charging document in these situations. And we don't yet have the notice to appear. So, we don't know exactly which of the charges the government's argument for deportation will rest on.

I suspect, I don't know, that the more generalized ground of Secretary Rubio saying that this individual represents a serious threat to American foreign policy would be the ground, but we just don't know.

[18:40:00]

And if you get into that second ground, the very undefined what counts as support and what counts as free speech ground, then you're going to be in a fact-intensive inquiry. And if you're a fact-intensive inquiry about what transpired last year on campus and elsewhere, and in which Mr. Khalil was allegedly involved, then you're going to be drawing some very difficult lines.

But I agree with you completely that this case has civil rights implications that go far beyond one individual. It's very important for that individual and for his family, no doubt. But the civil rights implications and the chilling effect of essentially saying that speech with which this government, not the last government, but this government agrees is grounds for deportation, if that's what it boils down to, we are in very, very dangerous territory in terms of freedom.

SCIUTTO: Is this the kind of -- just briefly before we go, is this the kind of case that would likely be appealed right up to the Supreme Court? The Supreme Court would have to decide this? SAMPLE: I think that there is a very strong likelihood. You know, one of the things that happens in deportation cases is that individuals get detained and if they are detained and not released on bond, and I'm sure that his attorneys will be pushing to release him on bond on the ground that he's not a significant danger to anyone and he's not a flight risk, he's got a wife in the United States who's eight months pregnant. So, if he's released on bond as opposed to being detained, he does not strike me as an individual who's likely to give up without an appeal.

The issues that you raised in terms of the First Amendment here would definitely be of interest to the United States Supreme Court.

SCIUTTO: James Sample, thanks so much.

SAMPLE: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up. We are getting ready to kick off the 2025 global celebration of freedom. Tuesday is My Freedom Day, and I'm going to speak to a United Nations expert on the fight against child trafficking. And we will hear from young people about what freedom to learn means to them.

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SCIUTTO: This hour we are kicking off the 9th annual My Freedom Day taking place all day on Tuesday. Every year CNN partners with young people all over the world to shine a light on modern day slavery. The aim, to bring it out of the shadows and empower students to use their voices as a weapon against human trafficking. This year's theme is freedom to learn. Students in Zimbabwe posted this message about what education means to them.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twelve million children worldwide are denied an education.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Due to forced labor and modern slavery.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every child has the opportunity to learn --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- grow --

HANCOCKS (voice-over): -- and to break the cycle of exploitation.

CROWD: You take my freedom, but not my voice.

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SCIUTTO: Listen to their voices. The rise in human trafficking is fueled by organized crime, and the number of children discovered has climbed significantly, according to the U.N. They make up nearly four in 10 victims, and girls outnumber boys. Ilias Chatzis is chief of the Human Trafficking and Migrant Smuggling Section at the U.N.'s Office on Drugs and Crime. He joins me now from Austria. Thanks so much for joining.

And I understand you're detecting more cases of human traffic. I wonder, is that the result of better policing or better tracking of this or because it's growing, because trafficking is growing?

ILIAS CHATZIS, CHIEF, UNODC HUMAN TRAFFICKING AND MIGRAN SMUGGLING SECTION: It's actually both. We're getting better at detecting the crime, so we see more cases, we learn to recognize them, we learn how to better investigate and prosecute and to save the victims, but at the same time, we also have new types of trafficking that did not exist before, especially on the online sector. Online scams, online sexual exploitation is really exploding lately. And it's becoming more and more prevalent.

It's -- lately, it's very difficult to find any longer a case that does not have an online component. So, it's actually both of these reasons that you cited.

SCIUTTO: Are there parts of the world that are particularly affected by this?

CHATZIS: Actually, it's everywhere. It's everywhere. It's been more than 158 countries that we detected trafficking flows for this edition of the global report. So, it happens at every corner. It happens in developed countries. It happens in developing countries.

It's different types of trafficking. So, for example, in low-income countries, we have more child trafficking, we have other types of trafficking, more forced labor, for example, in developing countries, in -- excuse me, in developing countries, yes, and more trafficking for sexual exploitation in developing, in developed countries.

So, it differs, the types of trafficking that we see, but it happens everywhere. Trafficking is not a problem of the developing countries, it affects all of us.

SCIUTTO: What is the U.N. doing specifically to stand in the way of this? And I wonder how much help you're getting, right, from other nations around the world?

CHATZIS: Yes. I mean, trafficking is a top priority for all member states. It has been on top of the agenda for many, many years. It's been at the top of the General Assembly. This year, the General Assembly will be high -- will be having a high-level meeting to discuss its own global plan of action against human trafficking. So, it is a high priority for all countries. So, we're getting a lot of support.

The issue with trafficking is that it's so much entangled with our economic development model. You know, the exploitation of the supply chains, the online component that is difficult to investigate. And countries -- low-income countries don't even have the means to have the software or the equipment that they need. So, it's becoming more and more difficult to address, but we do have a lot of support and we're working across the world. We have offices in more than 150 countries and we worked with more than 60, 70 countries last year in different forms, helping them investigate, prosecute, save victims, develop programs for the victims to be -- to help them get back on their feet.

And this year, we will be holding like a big forum, a global forum for survivors of human trafficking to help them raise their voice and be part of the solution.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, we appreciate the work you do. It's important. Ilias Chatzis from the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, thanks so much for joining us.

CHATZIS: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: We will have full coverage for the next 24 hours of My Freedom Day. Send us your thoughts on freedom to learn using the hashtag #MyFreedomDay on social media, and check out cnn.com/myfreedomday for more.

And still to come this hour, the people of Greenland prepare to vote. The outcome of this general election could redefine its political future and its very identity.

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SCIUTTO: Greenland is holding a parliamentary election that is set to kick off in just a few hours. And last week's address to Congress, President Trump talked once again about his desire to simply acquire the strategically significant island from Denmark, which is a U.S. treaty ally, and by the way has refused such a proposal. Here's what Greenlanders told CNN's Fred Pleitgen.

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FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): It's an unlikely place for a geopolitical tug of war. Greenland, with a population of about 57,000, known for its fishing, natural resources, and glaciers, goes to the polls on Tuesday. Something that in the past probably wouldn't have attracted a lot of global attention, but that was before Greenland caught the eye of U.S. President Donald Trump.

TRUMP: We will keep you safe. We will make you rich and together we will take Greenland to heights like you have never thought possible before.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): It's a bold offer, especially since Greenland is a territory of Denmark. Though it's semi-autonomous with its own parliament, but it does rely on Denmark for about half its annual budget. The U.S. already has a military base in Greenland, which plays a key role in missile defense and satellite communication.

And Greenland is also the gateway to the Arctic, lying on the shortest route from North America to Europe. So, it's location is strategic. But if forced to choose between the U.S. and Denmark, many Greenlanders say they prefer another option.

MUTE EGEDE, GREENLANDIC PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We don't want to be Danes. We don't want to be Americans. We want to be Greenlandic.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): It's a question of identity that many Greenlanders feel is at the heart of this election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to be independent. We need that identity for our people in the Arctic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope Greenland to get more out in the world picture. Right now, it's just dependent on Denmark and the money we're getting from there.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Most of Greenland's main political parties support independence for Greenland, which can be declared if a referendum passes and the Danish parliament approves. But they differ on how soon that should happen, with one party saying Greenland should cut ties immediately.

PELE BROBERG, NALERAQ PARTY: Let's hope for a quick process. But as soon as we start that process, we have several other things that will start. One of them will be defense negotiations with the United States about the defense of Greenland when we are independent.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Trump's comments are also reverberating in Denmark itself, which recently said it will spend more than $2 billion to boost Arctic security and admitted it had neglected Greenland's defense for years. It's a relationship that could soon change if Greenland steps up its pursuit of independence or uses its leverage to negotiate a better deal with Denmark.

NOA REDINGTON, POLITICAL ANALYST: There will be a new government and it will put a tremendous pressure on the Danish government to have a position, a real position in terms of if Greenland wants independence, what will the cost be?

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Independence isn't on Tuesday's ballot, but the results could reconfigure Greenland's future, something the U.S. and many others will be closely watching.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN.

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SCIUTTO: Tourists in Iran experienced a deeply unusual phenomenon late last month. Videos from Hormuz Island show blood red -- wow, blood red water flowing down into the Persian Gulf. Looks like something out of the 10 Plagues. In fact, here's the scientific explanation. The mountain there is rich in iron oxide, which turns the soil and the water, as you can see, deep red. Actor Michael Sheen wiped out over a million dollars in debt for 900 of his neighbors in South Wales. Sheen, known for his roles in "The Queen" and the TV show "Good Omens," bought and forgave the debt as part of a documentary for British TV. Sheen is using the payoff to raise awareness of loan sharks and other predatory lenders. Quite a service.

Thanks so much for your company today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington and pleased do stay with CNN.

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