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CNN International: Ukrainian Troops Being Pushed Out of Kursk; Ukraine and U.S. Waits for Russia's Response; Europe and Canada Retaliates Against U.S. Tariffs; Former Philippine President Duterte in ICC Custody; Impact of Steel Tariffs; New Graphic Novel Tackles Authoritarianism; SpaceX to Bring Astronauts Home. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired March 12, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all over the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

Just ahead this hour, a top Ukrainian commander says that Russia is pushing Ukrainian forces out of its Kursk region. This is U.S. officials head to Russia to discuss their ceasefire plan.

Europe and Canada retaliate against U.S. tariffs hours after they were implemented. We speak to the European Union's Trade Commissioner, Maros Sefcovic.

And the Chinese artist Badiucao and investigative journalist Melissa Chan also joined the show to talk about their new graphic novel, "You Must Take Part in Revolution."

We begin with the ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine and what could be a major development on the battlefield. It's happening just as Washington delivers a ceasefire proposal to the Kremlin. Ukraine's top general says that Russia is pushing Ukrainian forces out of the Russian Kursk region, trying to break through Ukrainian lines with Russian special forces and airborne troops. This after Russia said that its forces have captured hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers in the region.

Today, Russian President Vladimir Putin visited the area, as you saw there, wearing full military fatigues. Russia's top general told the president that Ukraine's hopes of using Kursk as a bargaining chip in negotiations have collapsed. The Russian leader spoke a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): In the near future, the task is to finally defeat the enemy that is still engaged in combat operations, who has dug into the Kursk region as soon as possible and completely liberate the territory of the Kursk region.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: Ukrainian forces seized parts of Kursk in August last year in a bold cross border operation. All this comes as U.S. President Donald Trump says members of his administration are headed to Moscow to hear its response to a ceasefire plan presented by the United States and, you'll remember, agreed to by Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I haven't -- we haven't spoken to him yet with substance because we just found out and we just were able to get Ukraine to agree. So, we're going to know very soon. I've gotten some positive messages, but a positive message means nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says that ceding territory to Moscow would cross a red line for Ukraine. And he expects the United States to take strong steps against Russia if it rejects the ceasefire deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We will not play with the narrative that we do not want the war to end. The narrative that Russia has and is spreading around the world. I'm very serious about this. It is important for me to end the war. I want the president of the United States of America to see this. I want Americans to see and feel this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Our Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward joins us now from Kyiv. And, Clarissa, this operation in Kursk was notable, it was bold, it was Ukraine seizing territory from Russia, of course, and two invasions of Ukraine by Russia. It was also seen as a potential negotiating bargaining chip. Are you hearing from Ukrainian officials and generals that, in effect, Kursk is lost?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think they are almost saying it without saying it outright, if that makes sense, Jim. They are certainly laying the ground and preparing people, raising expectations for the specter of a full withdrawal from Kursk, but officially, the party line is still that combat operations are continuing.

They are conceding, however, that the Russians are attacking with crushing force. We are talking about special forces. We are talking about specialized drone units. We are talking about 12,000 estimated North Korean troops, a huge amount of artillery and firepower as well.

And we heard earlier on this evening, in fact, from the head of Ukraine's forces basically saying that where appropriate, they are having to redeploy forces. On top of that, you heard from the head of Russia's forces and you saw that photo op with President Putin actually visiting Kursk for the first time since the Ukrainians ceased that patch of territory back in August. And they were certainly indicating that they believe the end was near, so to speak.

[18:05:00]

So, it appears that this is likely to happen in the coming days, and it maybe, possibly, Jim, that this will give President Vladimir Putin the kind of win that he would need in order to sell his people on the idea of signing up to a ceasefire.

As of yet, we don't know exactly what the Russian president's response is going to be. Everything we've heard so far from the Kremlin indicates that they're kind of trying to buy some more time before they come up with a specific answer.

For the Ukrainians, when you talk to ordinary people, there is a sort of recognition or resignation even that maintaining Kursk or holding onto it was not going to be sustainable in the long run. This is an offensive that was undertaken in part to essentially deflect and distract Russian resources and assets from the front lines in the east of the country. And also, of course, as you mentioned, to be used as a bargaining chip at the negotiating table.

So, clearly, it would be very disappointing to Ukraine not to be able to use that bargaining chip any longer. But there is, I think, a growing realization that it is no longer a tenable, sustainable position and that their focus needs to be on other areas. For the most part, I would say, though, Jim, it's interesting to see the mood in Ukraine definitely a lot more up to beat after those meetings in Jeddah, not so much because people here are anticipating that peace is around the corner, but at least they are feeling much better about the relationship between Ukraine and the U.S., which is, of course, its most critical ally, and the idea that they're now kind of in control of the narrative again. That they can tell the world, we are not the obstacle to peace, we want to make it happen. And now, it's up to President Putin.

SCIUTTO: Yes, a remarkable shift, given that infamous moment in the Oval Office just, well, less than two weeks ago. Clarissa Ward in Kyiv, thanks so much.

For more now, let's turn to Ambassador John Bolton, who served as national security adviser to President Trump during his first administration. Ambassador, good to have you back on.

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER AND FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Glad to be with you.

SCIUTTO: The U.S. has, of course, lifted its intelligence pause on Ukraine. U.S. officials are now saying the ball is in Russia's court. I wonder, do you buy that shift from this administration? We're only days past Trump and other Republicans blaming Ukraine and Zelenskyy for Russia's invasion.

BOLTON: Right. I don't put much stock in this ceasefire. There's a lot less there than meets the eye. Frankly, Zelenskyy didn't have any choice in order to get a resumption of U.S. military assistance, including intelligence assistance, which Ukraine vitally needs. They were going to have to agree to something at this meeting in Jeddah.

I thought it might be the famous minerals deal. That apparently still is in limbo. But they agreed to a 30-day ceasefire with some other terms in there that that produced the result they wanted and does represent a step back to a closer relationship than after the debacle in the Oval Office.

But having said they've agreed to it doesn't mean that there's just one tiny step left. You know, you just have to get the Russians to agree to it. On the other hand, Putin now faces a dilemma. He has had Trump give him everything that the Kremlin could have asked for. So, he doesn't want to risk jeopardizing that with Trump.

My guess is he will say something like, we absolutely accept the American proposal in principle. Now, let's talk about the details of what a ceasefire on the ground between combat forces engaged in combat looks like, and how one really makes it operational.

SCIUTTO: The leaders of America's allies are saying, quite publicly, they no longer trust the U.S. to defend Europe, or even really to be a fair mediator in ongoing peace negotiations, and are understandably demanding a seat at the table. In your view, can Trump turn around those damaged relationships with America's treaty allies or is the damage done?

BOLTON: Well, I think considerable damage is done. I don't think they'll ever trust Trump again. Certainly, what I tell Europeans is, Trump is an aberration who does not represent a majority of American citizens, but it may be the damage is done to the United States and maybe permanently. This is serious business, what Trump has done. And in the near term, I'm not sure you're going to get Europeans to listen much to him. You may not get Trump listening to Europeans. He may say, you're just not going to participate in this peace negotiation.

[18:10:00]

SCIUTTO: A bigger picture, you write in your recent op-ed, and I'll quote you here, "Trump does not have a philosophy or a national security grand strategy. He does not do policy, as Washington understands that term. His approach is personal, transactional, ad hoc, episodic, centering on one question. What benefits Donald Trump?"

I wonder, even with those motivations, is it possible that the collection of his moves, in effect, is a policy, one of American retreat, and a return to a 19th century spheres of influence? Russia, you have your patch, China, you have your patch, and just don't bother us in ours?

BOLTON: Yes, I think that view gives Trump too much credit. I don't think he could conceive that on a good day, let alone a typical day. I think what he's aiming for in Ukraine, and maybe in the Middle East as well, is the Nobel Peace Prize. He's long said that Barack Obama got one and didn't deserve it, which is a position I happen to agree with. I still don't know why Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize. But Trump says, why shouldn't I get it? He thought he should have gotten it for the Abraham Accords. And I think he believes he can try and get it here.

Zelenskyy ought to hold in his hip pocket a promise to nominate Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize so that he can get some credit for it. But that's what this is about, making Trump look good and something he needs as we look at the effect on the American stock market of his various tariff decisions.

SCIUTTO: I wonder, could that be a backstop against the worst outcomes? And that, you can imagine the Nobel Committee would not, presumably, award a prize to a deal that is significantly skewed in Russia's favor, in the aggressor's favor?

BOLTON: Well, I think that depends on a lot of circumstances we don't understand here. Look, if Russia is about to make a breakthrough in the Kursk region, and that's possible, the picture you showed of Putin arriving at that Russian headquarters, he was greeted by Gennadi Gerasimov, that's the chairman -- equivalent of the Russian chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. That is a clear signal that their posteriors are on the line here. They think they're going to deliver a victory.

And if they break the Ukrainian line inside Russia, they may be able to carry that battle back into Ukraine in a significant way. It sounds like they've got a lot of firepower built up. I hope the war isn't about to take a significant change. But at some point, maybe the Russian military does get its act together.

SCIUTTO: Ambassador John Bolton, always good to hear your views.

BOLTON: Thank you. Glad to be with you.

SCIUTTO: Well, call it a classic example of actions having consequences, reactions, the global trade war taking another significant turn on Wednesday. With the E.U. and Canada announcing retaliatory tariffs against the United States tariffs.

Just hours after the U.S. put 25 percent tariffs on all steel and aluminum imports, the E.U. swiftly responded with tariffs on $28 billion worth of U.S. goods set to take effect April 1st. And Canada announced new tariffs of its own on more than $20 billion worth of American products. Both E.U. and Canadian officials say they had to act, though they do remain open to negotiations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER-DESIGNATE: I'm ready to sit down with President Trump at the appropriate time. Under a position where there's respect for Canadian sovereignty and we're working for a common approach. A much more comprehensive approach for trade. We're all going to be better off.

URSULA VON DER LEYEN, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: Tariffs are taxes. They are bad for business and worse for consumers. The countermeasures we take today are strong. But proportionate.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: President Trump vowed Wednesday to respond in kind to any new tariffs. There's the cycle. He also hit back against criticism that is ever-changing tariff policies are harming the U.S. economy, despite what the market is saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm not like a block that just, I won't delay it. I have -- it's called flexibility, it's not called inconsistency, it's called flexibility. And I think you want me to be flexible too.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is flexibility going to be your ongoing view towards this?

TRUMP: Sure, I'll always have flexibility. But there will be very little flexibility once we start.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: What does he mean there? President Trump says he's being consistent. But Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon says business leaders want more predictability to help them better plan for the future. And a new CNN poll shows that 56 percent of Americans now disapprove of Trump's handling the economy. Remember, he had a big advantage on handling the economy prior to the election.

[18:15:00]

U.S. stocks did bounce back on Wednesday, somewhat, after days of heavy selling. A new inflation report also helped to improve sentiment. It showed prices rising less than expected last month. That was, of course, before the worst of the global trade war began.

European Union Trade Chief Maros Sefcovic says the E.U. had no choice but to announce retaliatory tariffs against the U.S. today. He says the E.U. must protect its economic interests and warns it might have to look elsewhere for more reliable trading partners in the future. He says the U.S. underestimates the power of the E.U. at its own peril. I spoke with him earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAROS SEFCOVIC, E.U. COMMISSIONER FOR TRADE AND ECONOMIC SECURITY: I think what is very important to underline that we are the biggest trading partners on this planet, every year we are trading more than $1.5 trillion in goods and services. And I would like to underline that Europeans are also the biggest investors in the United States to the tune of $2.8 trillion. And they're creating directly in the United States 3.4 million jobs.

So, what I want to say is that this relationship is so massive that we should do everything possible to avoid this painful escalation we have seen this morning. So, we will never escalate, you know the tension, but we would always protect the European businesses and the European citizens. And this is how we have to see our steps this morning. SCIUTTO: You have said that the block will always be open to negotiation. Do you believe that President Trump is open to real negotiation to get to a point where the tariffs end? Because the impression he gives is that he's looking to remake the entire U.S. economy and all of its trading relationships. It does not appear that he is in a position to negotiate.

SEFCOVIC: I think that tariffs are, in the end, taxes on our own people. They make the businesses more difficult to operate, they make the goods more expensive, and they push up the inflation. So, of course the choice is always there for the U.S. administration to continue in that regard.

But what we would like to offer is to work together as a real ally, to look where we can actually lower the tariff. How can we take on the common challenges and common problems we have? Actually, two weeks ago, I had quite good conversation with secretary of commerce, Mr. Lutnick, and with Mr. Greer, and Mr. Hassett, when we've been discussing the steel. And I think that it was quite clear from that conversation that Europe is not a problem, that we are part of the solution, because what we have to tackle is the global overcapacity of the steel flowing to U.S., flowing to Europe, especially from Asian countries.

So, that would be our offer. Let's talk as friends, as the partners, look where we can lower the tariff and make it easier for our businesses and not to make it more difficult for our citizens and for our entrepreneurs.

SCIUTTO: Do you find the Trump administration speaking with one voice on tariffs? Because sometimes we will hear public comments from some members of the administration seemingly opening the door to negotiations and then hear something different from President Trump?

SEFCOVIC: I always respect my interlocutors and my negotiating partners, and I was doing a couple of these very difficult negotiations. So, it's always very important to show the respect, to build the trust. And I think we had very good discussion with all three representatives of United States of America, secretary of commerce, U.S. trade representatives and of course, director of NEC.

And therefore, we will continue, you know, in this constructive discussion with them. But what I want to say, it's very important that we would not let this go. I mean, if you hit us hard, we have to hit back. Because we have to simply protect our citizens. We want to have a fair treatment. And I believe that as close as allies of United States of America and biggest trading partner, biggest investor, and biggest outside job creator, we deserve the fair treatment.

SCIUTTO: I've spoken to Canadian officials, including the foreign minister, who, of course, are being targeted. Their country targeted by punishing tariffs as well. And they've said that the trading relationship with the U.S. has fundamentally changed. That this is a lasting -- this is doing lasting damage to the relationship. And I wonder if you agree, or do you think that the two sides can eventually negotiate and come to some sort of agreement that both sides -- that makes both sides happy?

SEFCOVIC: We'll definitely try. But I also have to say that turbulence on the global trade, which we see over the last couple of weeks is that it's kind of creating new momentum for many of our partners to try to accelerate the free trade agreements negotiations with the European Union.

[18:20:00]

In a short period of time we concluded our negotiations with our MERCOSUR partners. I'm talking about Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay. We concluded negotiations with Mexico, with Switzerland. We are now in very intense negotiations with India, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines. We opened the possibility to accelerate the negotiations with the Gulf countries. And what I want to say is that we all appreciate that we need to find new markets. We need to find new partners.

And what I hear from our potential free trade agreement partners is that they very much appreciate that Europe is predictable, is stable, that we respect the contracts and we respect the deal. And therefore, we will do our utmost to come back to the normal set up of trade relationship with the U.S. But we'll also pursue the agenda of opening the new markets, looking for new friends, making sure that we would have diversified supplies of everything what we need in E.U., and open the European markets to those who really treasure it, who appreciate it, and who wants to do the fair trade with us.

SCIUTTO: It sounds like you're saying that if the U.S. does not return to fair trade, as you describe it, that Europe will look elsewhere?

SEFCOVIC: I think we already are, to be honest, because I think that was always our motto, our agenda that we are the biggest trader on this planet. We have a free trade agreement with 77 countries and we know how beneficial this is for the both sides. And I'm always saying that we never concluded the free trade agreement, which was bad for one or another side. So, we always profited and benefited from this on the both sides.

And you know that a few years ago, it was also on the agenda between the E.U. and the U.S. And I'm absolutely convinced that we would do much better instead of raising the tariffs to look where we can lower them, to look where we can cooperate, like on overcapacity of the steel. What can we do together to make to make sure that A.I. chips are available for our economies? What can we do to cooperate in making sure that our economies would have enough critical raw materials?

And simply, you know, to work as we used to do. As a strategic partner, strategic alliance and biggest trading partners on this planet, because that would be clearly the preference for Europe and for Europeans.

SCIUTTO: One can hope. Maros Sefcovic, thanks so much for joining.

SEFCOVIC: Thank you for having me. (END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Coming up, the ICC takes custody of Rodrigo Duterte. What's next for the former Philippine president and how Filipinos are grappling with his legacy of violence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

SCIUTTO: The International Criminal Court has now taken custody of the former Philippine president, Rodrigo Duterte. Duterte now being held in The Hague. The ICC has charged him with crimes against humanity. He denies the charges. For years, Duterte led an anti-drug crackdown that killed thousands of his own citizens. Now, the Philippines is reckoning with the legacy of Duterte's violence. Mike Valerio has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As president of the Philippines Rodrigo Duterte was never far from a cheering crowd. The self-styled strong man remains hugely popular with large parts of the public, despite his willingness to have people killed.

RODRIGO DUTERTE, THEN-PHILIPPINE PRESIDENT: In Davao, I used to do it personally, just to show to the guys that if I can do it, why can't you?

VALERIO (voice over): Tuesday night, it was Duterte's detractors who were cheering, sending him off at the airport on his way to The Hague to be prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

MARIA RESSA, JOURNALIST AND NOBEL PEACE PRIZE LAUREATE: The best part about all of this is that during a time that's been called the era of impunity Little Philippines, the Philippines, actually shows that impunity ends at a certain point.

VALERIO (voice over): While mayor of Davao City, Duterte boasted of killing suspects himself. When he became president, Duterte took his war on drugs to the entire country, giving police and hired gunmen license to kill those who didn't cooperate.

DUTERTE: Resistance is violent thereby placing your life in jeopardy, shoot and shoot him dead.

VALERIO (voice-over): Police data shows at least 6,000 people were killed like this during his time in office. Rights groups say the toll was much higher.

The victims, mostly young men from the country's most impoverished areas. Their families told their slain sons deserved to die. Llore Pasco lost her two boys to the frenzy of violence.

LLORE PASCO, VICTIM'S MOTHER (through translator): This is only the start of our fight. Our justice has not yet been achieved because there's still a lot of things that will happen. But we will not stop fighting.

VALERIO (voice-over): Tuesday's arrest came as a shock to the former president's supporters and seemingly to Duterte himself.

DUTERTE: What is the law and what is the crime that I committed?

VALERIO (voice-over): Duterte had appeared to enjoy the protection of his successor, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. and that of the vice president, Sara Duterte, his own daughter.

But Marcos allowed Interpol officials to move on Duterte as he returned from a visit to Hong Kong, an act that has empowered the International Criminal Court to prosecute a former president and may give some solace to the families of the thousands killed without so much as a charge against them.

Mike Valerio, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Coming up, the Steel City of Canada, warning of terrifying consequences from new U.S. terrorists. I'm going to speak with the mayor of Hamilton, Ontario. We'll see you there right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Sciutto. Here are more international headlines we are watching today.

27 hostages on a passenger train in Pakistan have been killed. This after a standoff between militants and the Pakistani military on Tuesday, a separatist group took over the train in the southwestern part of the country and then opened fire. A security source says nearly 350 hostages were rescued, at least 35 militants were killed in the operation.

Palestinian activist Mahmoud Khalil will remain in custody as the Trump administration seeks to deport him, while supporters gathered outside a federal judge said today that Khalil must have more access to his lawyers. He's being held at a detention facility in the U.S. State of Louisiana. A deportation order has been temporarily blocked. Khalil's attorneys say he's being punished for protesting the war in Gaza.

And we're learning more about the man British police have arrested in connection with Monday's collision between a cargo ship and an oil tanker in the North Sea. The owner of the cargo ship says the 59-year- old man was the ship's captain. He is a Russian national and is being held on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter. One crew member is now presumed dead.

Well, as we reported, Canada has imposed retaliatory tariffs on U.S. goods worth $20 billion, this in response to Donald Trump's sweeping 25 percent tariffs on steel and aluminum imports. Canada's incoming prime minister had this message for the U.S. president earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARNEY: I'm ready to sit down with President Trump at the appropriate time, under a position where there's respect for Canadian sovereignty and we're working for a common approach, a much more comprehensive approach for a trade. We're all going to be better off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: A conversation with respect. Mark Carney traveled to Hamilton, Ontario to make those remarks. It's known as the Steel City of Canada. Its mayor, Andrea Horwath, says the trade war is expected to have a devastating impact there. She joins me now live from Hamilton. Thanks so much for taking the time.

ANDREA HORWATH, HAMILTON, CANADA MAYOR: My pleasure, Jim. Thanks for the invitation.

SCIUTTO: You said that this is, in your words, completely terrifying. And that the job launch losses could be entrenched. Describe the costs to Hamilton from these tariffs.

HORWATH: Well, we're a city of about 600,000, just shy of 600,000. We will see in the order of 28,000 to 30,000 jobs at risk. We will see over a billion dollars come out of our economy. It is it is a significant impact. And of course, as many have said, the longer the tariffs are in place, the deeper the pain, frankly, the harder it's going to be to build back.

SCIUTTO: Prime minister Trudeau, Foreign Minister Joly told me that Trump, his intention is to collapse the Canadian economy. And I wonder, is that what you see potentially happening to Hamilton's economy if these tariffs continue?

[18:35:00]

HORWATH: Well, it's not without the -- it's not outside the realm of possibility. Really, we have a very integrated economy, as you know, and steel. An both sides of our border, there's lots of jobs and lots of jobs at risk and lots of potential pain. But when you look at not only the -- you know, the steel producers, the big fish, if you will, but also, the massive number of smaller SMEs, small and medium sized enterprises, there are not only the workers that are directly involved in, for example, fabrication, advanced manufacturing, et cetera. It's quite a diversified industry now.

But then, there are all the other services that provide support to those companies, and then there's the ripple effect on the economy as a whole. You can, I think, appreciate that these are well-paying jobs, that these are the kinds of jobs that provide a good living for families. The ripple effect will be significant.

SCIUTTO: Are you hearing from fellow mayors south of the border here in the U.S. who oppose Trump's tariffs? HORWATH: Well, it depends on what kind of tariffs you're talking about, really. But I can tell you when I was in Washington last week, the mayors along the Great Lakes basin basically, it's a huge economic section of the economy, most of the trade between the U.S. and Canada happens in that corridor. It's actually an $8 trillion economy in and of itself. And those mayors in the U.S. -- on the U.S. side of the Great Lakes, the eight Great Lakes states, know very well that a prolonged tariff war will cause a lot of pain for their communities, their workers, their companies, again, because of the highly integrated supply chain that feeds that economy.

SCIUTTO: Someone mentioned earlier that if you look at that border area of the U.S. and Canada from above, you can't see the border. It looks like, you know, very much an integrated megalopolis across the border. I spoke earlier with the E.U. trade chief who said that Europe is already looking elsewhere for more reliable trading partners given President Trump's policies. And I wonder, is that something that Hamilton can do, or is your economy so integrated with the U.S. that you couldn't really look elsewhere for customers?

HORWATH: Well, I can tell you we're looking elsewhere. We do not want to be in a position where we do not have control over our own future. And this is really a wakeup call for us, frankly. We have a deep-water port here in Hamilton. So, we actually have the capacity to go directly to worldwide markets from our city, which is something that not very many cities can boast.

And so, we have to make sure that that port is able to give us that opportunity. There's lots of technical things that need to happen in that regard. But physically, the capacity is there. And so, we are definitely looking at those things as well as, you know, I think you might have heard this in Canada, we have had trade barriers within our country between provinces and those are being dealt with as well.

So, we will be doing more of that work internally across our -- the breadth of our country, but also around the world. There's no doubt about it. We have no choice. President Trump has given us no choice.

SCIUTTO: Well, we wish the people -- you and the people of Hamilton the very best. Andrea Horwath, thanks so much for joining us.

HORWATH: My pleasure. Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, my conversation with the authors of a new graphic novel set in a dystopian future between the U.S. and China. I'll speak to them about the inspiration for their work and their own experiences with authoritarianism.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

SCIUTTO: "You Must Take Part in Revolution," that is the title of a new graphic novel set in a future torn apart by authoritarianism. The title references a quote from Mao Zedong, if you want to know the theory and methods of revolution, you must take part in revolution. The book is a team effort from the artist Badiucao and investigative journalist Melissa Chan. Both have made it their life's work to confront authoritarian governments, even, as you'll learn, at a great personal cost. And they join me now. Thanks so much for joining.

MELISSA CHAN, CO-AUTHOR, "YOU MUST TAKE PART IN REVOLUTION" AND INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Thanks for having us.

BADIUCAO, CO-AUTHOR, "YOU MUST TAKE PART IN REVOLUTION" AND ARTIST: It's a please to be here.

SCIUTTO: I want to begin with one piece of this because your book envisions a frightening future war between the U.S. and China, where the U.S. itself has become a proto fascist state. Can you explain that second piece? What led you to imagine an American turn towards authoritarianism as well?

CHAN: Well, we started this book four and a half years ago at the tail end of President Trump's first term, and at a time when we knew that President Biden was going to be the next president, and I think I was also kind of looking back at those four years. So, it's strange to be talking to you now. I don't think we quite anticipated the political climate in which this book would be released in the first few weeks of 2025.

But it had to do with the climate then. Also, around that time, the protests in Hong Kong were losing momentum. So, I was sort of looking and thinking about protest movements both in the United States and abroad when I started working on the book. And including that element of a proto fascist United States.

SCIUTTO: Melissa, you, of course, experienced Chinese government pressure when you had your journalist visa to report from China revoked. And, Badiucao, you've been harassed in Australia by Chinese government agents. I wonder if I could ask you, Badiucao, how much did your own personal experience of authoritarianism inspire this work?

BADIUCAO: I mean, for every character that we create in this graphic novel, they are a reflection of our own life experiences. That, in fact, being a dissident artist from China, that going through all the harassment, including, you know, threat to my family back in China and all the personal security issues around my life in Australia or working Europe in America is something that I always have to reflecting and basically look on my shoulder.

And a lot of experience, those characters in the books are having the similar issues, perhaps also giving them the motivation to fighting back, to use their resistance in this fictional story.

SCIUTTO: For people watching who don't know, China apparently set a doppelganger of Badiucao to events in Australia to basically impersonate him here -- there, which I can only imagine is disturbing to witness.

Melissa, your three main characters, they take different approaches to this conflict. Can you explain what those approaches are and what the message is from that? CHAN: Well, I think the tussle is kind of age old, the nonviolent versus violent resistance when you are facing an authoritarian power. And part of what I was trying to explore was bringing in my experience as a journalist that has -- that's covered so many protests and also interviewed so many dissidents in China, but also people in Russia as well.

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And seeing the difficulties in terms of how dissidents navigate, how they fight back against authoritarian powers, and also realizing that whatever decision they decide comes at a cost. So, we wanted to talk about the costs of resistance. Because fighting and defending for freedom, you know, is not free. I know that sounds really, you know, quite commonly spoken, but that's the sort of, for me, what I was trying to work through at looking at the dissidents that I had met over the last 20 years and trying to distill some of the struggles that they had faced.

SCIUTTO: It's a test. It's quite a test. You know, you've drawn the attention of the Chinese government with this book because, as I understand it, the Chinese A.I. tool, DeepSeek already censors you. Badiucao, is that something of a badge of honor?

BADIUCAO: Well, absolutely. Because this very book is talking about how technology can be harvested by authoritarian regime and used on censorship or manipulation in society. And this very book's experience with DeepSeek just kind of proved the plot that we try to create in the books. So, what happened is we actually type into a sentence like ask the DeepSeek to giving a reveal to our coming book.

And for like three seconds, there are -- actually, some of the answers are coming up, but suddenly, all the answer just disappeared. And instead, the A.I. was asking us, let's talk about something else.

CHAN: And we found it particularly a dystopian because the book hadn't even been published yet. So, what the Chinese A.I. chatbot was doing was censoring a book that hadn't even come out yet. So, pre- banning it.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, it makes you wonder the usefulness of such an A.I. bot if it has that sort of censorship. But before we go, I mean, given the censorship that is quite prevalent in China, do you hope -- do you believe Chinese readers, back in your home, Badiucao, will get access to your book?

BADIUCAO: Well, you know, censorship is like a brick wall, but I do believe art has this power, almost like a sip of water, that is find a way to going through those bricks' gaps. And I do hope, like, in the coming future, when the book will existing maybe in a digital form, it will find its way to back to China, to be read by the Chinese people.

SCIUTTO: Well, let's hope so. Badiucao, Melissa Chan, co-authors of the graphic novel "You Must Take Part in a Revolution." Fascinating story. We wish you both good luck.

CHAN: Thank you.

BADIUCAO: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up after the break, the long wait for a ride home. More on the two NASA astronauts whose eight days in space turned into nine months.

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SCIUTTO: Just about an hour, a manned mission to the International Space Station is set to launch. A SpaceX Dragon capsule is expected to drop off a new crew at the station and bring back two notable NASA astronauts, Sunita Williams and Butch Wilmore, who you may remember have been stuck on the ISS because of issues with the Boeing Starliner that brought them there.

What was meant to be an eight-day trip turned into about nine months. Better have packed well for that. And adjusting to life on Earth after being up there for so long could prove to be physically challenging.

CNN Aviation Analyst Miles O'Brien joins me now. Myles, first question, why did it take so long?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: It's a long story. But, Jim, I got to point out, they didn't pack at all. They didn't bring a suitcase to make room for a piece of equipment. So, it's been interesting. They got some supplies and of course, there were supplies on the space station.

It's taken so long because instead of launching a specific rocket and spaceship to go get them, they integrated them into the crew and decided to put them as part of a mission that was already underway. And so, they became a part of the ninth -- the Crew 9 mission, in order to smooth out and make it easier for the flow of spacecraft coming to and from the International Space Station.

There was some concern they were going to be waiting for a brand-new Dragon capsule, but that got flip flopped. They're now flying in a slightly used one, Endurance, appropriately named, on its fourth flight.

SCIUTTO: No matter how you slice it, this was a speed bump, at least, for Boeing. Tell us what are the consequences and how lasting are they because they try to make a viable and trustworthy vehicle for the space station.

O'BRIEN: Speed bump or maybe a dead end for Boeing on the Starliner. When you consider the lifespan of the International Space Station, maybe 2030, but Elon Musk is saying bring it down sooner, there may be no place for Starliner to go. It's built to carry astronauts to and from the space station. And so, the prospects of Boeing Starliner never flying again, certainly are part of this whole story right now.

SCIUTTO: All right. So, how about for the astronauts? They're going to come down to Earth after nine months of weightlessness. What's it going to be like physically? And how long does it take to recover from that? And do you recover from that eventually?

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, it's interesting, there are some things that persist with astronauts. One of the things that astronauts have had consistent, and in some cases, long-term problem with is their vision, Jim. And when they're up there, the fluids are rearranged in their body, and they're not quite sure what happens, but their vision is degraded. And in some cases that has persisted.

Your cardiovascular system, it doesn't have to work nearly as hard when you're in zero gravity. So, when you come back, your heart has to get back up to speed, so to speak. Your bones become more brittle in space. Again, because you're not putting as much pressure on them. Although, they do have a very rigorous workout campaign on there. Nine months is not a record, though.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's not. Still a fairly long time. Longer than I've been up in space. And before we go then, can you pinpoint what the issue was or issues with the Boeing Starliner in the end?

O'BRIEN: As it approached the International Space Station back in June, several thrusters misfired, there were leaks in the helium system, and there were general concerns about the propulsion control of that vehicle. The thought of that going awry during re-entry, during the searing heat of re-entry, made NASA say, we don't want to take the risk of putting human beings in there. And after it landed they found some unexplained problems in that Starliner capsule. So, it probably was the right thing to do.

SCIUTTO: Miles O'Brien, thanks so much as always.

O'BRIEN: You're welcome, Jim.

SCIUTTO: All right. From up in space to underwater, where a shark shaped like a guitar and a venomous sea snail are among hundreds of new marine species discovered by a team of scientists. Ocean Census was launched in 2023 to plug the huge gap in our knowledge of species in the deep sea. Scientists from around the world are on a 10-year mission to identify up to 100,000 new species. The shark and snail were found at depths of up to three miles or almost 5,000 meters.

And a happy reunion for one of the victims of the California wildfires. This cat, named Aggie, had been missing and feared dead since the family home burned down in the Palisades Fire in January. But on Saturday, the West Los Angeles Animal Shelter reunited Aggie with her 82-year-old owner, Katherine.

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Aggie was not in good shape, has extensive vet bills, but thanks to social media users, more than $26,000 has been raised to help.

To have a heart of gold, that's a compliment, but a heart of titanium, that's a more serious matter. An Australian man has spent a hundred days now living with an artificial heart made by of the medal while waiting for a donor transplant. Why use titanium? It's because it doesn't require valves or bearings susceptible to wear and tear. The man, in his 40s, is said now to be recovering well. That's a metal heart.

Thanks so much for your company today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. Please do stay with CNN.

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