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Trump Says He Didn't Sign Proclamation Invoking Alien Enemies Act, But His Signature Is On The Copy In The Federal Register; Columbia Univ. Makes Policy Changes, Including Protest Restrictions; Heathrow CEO Defends Airport Response As Flights Resume; Dems' Response To Trump Sparks Outage Am ong Some Voters; Israel Says It Struck Hezbollah Targets In Southern Lebanon; Trump: Expect "Flexibility" With Upcoming Reciprocal Tariffs; Families Of Veterans Who Died By Suicide Battle V.A. For Benefits. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired March 22, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: And Hemingway took to the skies with so many others to defend Britain and the world from a Nazi invasion. It's a poignant reminder of the sacrifices made in the fight for freedom.

That's all we have time for. Don't forget, you can find all our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com/audio and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching, and I'll see you all again next week.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, thank you so much for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

President Trump is now distancing himself from involvement in invoking the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to deport Venezuelan migrants. Speaking to reporters Friday, Trump said he did not sign the proclamation but stands by his administration's actions.

Despite Trump's claims, the presidential document invoking the Alien Enemies Act in the Federal Register does have his signature. Trump's comments were in response to remarks made by Judge James Boasberg during a Friday court hearing. Boasberg said he was concerned the deportation order was, quote, "signed in the dark of night and the migrants were rushed into planes".

The federal judge vowed he would get to the bottom of whether his order to temporarily halt the deportation flights was violated, who ordered those flights to continue, and what the consequences will be.

CNN's Alayna Treene is joining us now from near Trump's New Jersey resort where he is spending this Saturday. Alayna, what's the next step in this battle and how is the White House responding to Trump's claims that he did not sign the document?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Right. Well, Fred, as you said, that the President is in New Jersey today but he didn't leave Washington without first triggering a potential headache for his administration and really downplaying his role in the declaration of invoking this Alien Enemies Act.

As you mentioned, it's an 18th century law. And for the first time saying that he didn't actually sign it. Take a listen to what he told reporters yesterday as he departed.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't sound like this judge, who the DOJ is arguing with today about the deportation flights. He wants to know why the proclamation was signed in the dark, his words, and why people were rushed on to planes?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because we want to get criminals out of our country, number one. And I don't know when it was signed because I didn't sign it. Other people handled it. But Marco Rubio has done a great job and he wanted him out and we go along with that.

We want to get criminals out of our country.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

TREENE: Now, Fred, that exchange came after Friday. We saw the judge in this case who's at the center of one of the biggest legal battles that we're seeing the Trump administration face thus far in his administration continue to express skepticism over the administration's use of this 18th century law as well as when and how it was invoked.

Now, as you heard that reporter ask, one of the key questions the judge has is why did they sign this proclamation in the dark? And again, who was behind it? Now, the President, as you heard there, said that he wasn't the one who signed it. He actually brought up his Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, unprompted.

But I will -- you know, if you look at the proclamation, one, you can see the announcement is actually on its website saying that this is a proclamation of the president of the United States. But then there's also the version of this that was filed with the National Register, and it bears the President's recognizable signature at the bottom of it.

So clearly, the President one -- was the one who signed it. But then just moments after or hours after the President said that while he was departing for New Jersey, the White House issued a statement trying to clarify his remarks. This is what they said.

They said, quote, "President Trump was obviously referring to the original Alien Enemies Act that was signed back in 1798". It said, "The recent executive order was personally signed by President Trump invoking the Alien Enemies Act that designated Tren de Aragua" -- a foreign organization that is a Venezuelan gang -- "as a foreign terrorist organization in order to apprehend and depart these heinous criminals". So, they're trying to argue that the President was referring to the signature of the -- in 1798 of that law. Clearly, the President signed this, but it does continue to raise questions as the judge is really trying to narrow down on some of these answers.

WHITFIELD: All right, still lots of unanswered questions. Alayna Treene, thank you so much.

All right, now to the fallout from college protests against the Israel-Hamas war, Columbia University has announced a series of sweeping policy changes following last year's campus unrest. The changes were made after the Trump administration threatened to revoke nearly $400 million in federal funding to the school.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino is joining us right now with more on this. Gloria, what more can you tell us about these new changes and why it's happening?

[12:05:04]

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, for the past several weeks, we've been waiting to see how Columbia University was going to respond after Trump -- the Trump administration said it would cut more than $400 million in funding to the university if it did not put in some changes to respond to what they say were anti-Semitic actions on campus.

This is all after those protests on the school campus last year. Columbia University was really the epicenter of these school protests against the Israel-Hamas war last year. Now, those protests in Columbia led to several disruptions, including the cancelation of classes, the disruption of graduation.

There was some violence on some evenings, including the night of the Hamilton Hall takeover, which resulted in several students and other people at the demonstrations being arrested. The NYPD had to be brought in to help control the crowd. All of this caused a lot of controversy.

Now the university is moving ahead and putting several changes in place, including some of the Trump administration demands. And I want to just show you some of them, some of these new changes that they're making include the addition of campus police officers, which is going to have -- they're going to have powers to arrest protesters.

University ID will be required at demonstrator -- demonstrations. This is to make sure that so-called outside agitators are not participating. No face covering at the protests. No protests in or around academic buildings. And there will be a new anti-discrimination policy and disciplinary powers for the provost.

Now, so far, although these changes are controversial, we are getting some public signal that there is support behind these changes. Columbia's board of trustees issued a letter to the academic community this week saying that they stand behind the interim president, saying, quote, "We have and continue to support Interim President Armstrong's approach, including today's presentation" -- that's a reference to the changes -- "of the university's progress and deeply thoughtful actions. We are grateful for her principled and courageous leadership during this unprecedented time and for the steps she has and has taken to strengthen our institution".

Now, Fred, the board of trustees is Columbia's governing body. They are in charge of picking the President, running the school budget. So this is very much a public signal that, at least for now, these changes are also endorsed by them.

Fred?

WHITFIELD: And then, Gloria, is the White House satisfied with these proposed changes? And if so, does that mean freeing up, resuming that $400 million?

PAZMINO: That is the key question. We have reached out to the White House to see whether or not they are going to free up that money, they have not gotten back to us yet. But we should mention that many of the changes that Columbia University outlined essentially mirror some of the demands that the administration had made.

So it's going to be interesting to see if the administration decides, OK, this is good enough for us now, and we're not going to cut your funding.

WHITFIELD: All right. Gloria Pazmino, keep us posted. Thanks so much.

All right, overseas, operations at London's Heathrow Airport are now back to normal after a major fire at a nearby electrical substation led to the power outage there and an 18-hour shutdown of Europe's busiest airport on Friday. The ripple effect of the standstill could affect an estimated 150,000 passengers and 1,300 flights in the coming days.

CNN's Larry Madowo talked to one American tourist whose return trip to the U.S. has been delayed for days now.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

HENRY JACOBS, U.S. PASSENGER STRANDED AT HEATHROW: Well, the flights are all booked up until Wednesday.

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So you're in London for three extra days?

JACOBS: Oh, that's -- it's so sad.

MADOW: It's horrible.

JACOBS: It's like a second vacation for me and my wife.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

WHITFIELD: Especially if you have a place to stay, then it's good. But if you're in the airport sitting on the benches, not so good. CNN's Anna Stewart is joining us now live from Heathrow Airport. Anna, so it's one thing, you know, to get power back on, another for flights to return to normal schedule. So where is that?

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So Heathrow Airport is back up and running from 6:00 a.m. this morning actually. And from what I'm hearing, it feels very much normal as you would expect inside the terminals.

But for airlines, it's a bit different. British Airways, which is the U.K. flagship, the main carrier here and obviously the main airline to be impacted from yesterday's disruption, they're running or hoping to run at 85 percent capacity today. And that's because they started the day with aircraft in all sorts of places they shouldn't have been in different airports in the U.K.

And actually some aircraft actually stuck in places in Europe. So it will take some time and also to get through the huge backlog for people who obviously had to miss their flights yesterday and there's a full schedule today.

[12:10:08]

It's all been very costly for airlines. It's impacted hundreds of thousands of people. And the airport itself is coming under a lot of criticism as to whether it has enough resilience when it comes to this sort of thing. And here is what the CEO of Heathrow Airport had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

THOMAS WOLDBYE, CEO, HEATHROW AIRPORT: Continuities of certain sizes, we cannot guard ourselves against 100 percent. And this is one of them. This has been a major incident. I mean, short of anybody getting hurt, this is as big as it gets for our airport.

And we are actually coming back quite fast, I would say, when you consider the amount of systems that we have to shut down, then bring back up and make sure that they're safe. It's fueling systems, it's bridges, it's escalators, elevators.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

STEWART: He did apologize to passengers this morning in a radio interview on BBC's Radio 4. We've also had an apology from National Grid. And in the last hour, the U.K.'s energy secretary says he is commissioning the U.K.'s energy system operator to carry a review as to whether there's enough resilience when it comes to critical infrastructure like Heathrow Airport.

And of course, police investigations ongoing to discover what the cause of the fire was. Back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right, that part is still the mystery.

Anna Stewart at Heathrow Airport, thank you so much. All right, still ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want you to show some of the backbone and strategic brilliance that Mitch McConnell would have in the minority.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want you to show fight.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

WHITFIELD: Democratic lawmakers facing the fury from voters at town halls as the party's favorability hits a record low.

Plus, Israel's military says it has carried out airstrikes on Hezbollah targets in Lebanon. New details in the biggest flare up of tension since the ceasefire.

And new changes are coming to the education department, the agency that will now oversee student loans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:44]

WHITFIELD: For weeks now, Americans angry about the sweeping cuts made by President Trump and Elon Musk's DOGE team have voiced their outrage to congressional Republicans. Well, now it's the Democrats turn. Views of the party and its response to Trump's second term are tumbling and voter fury is surging.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want you to show some of the backbone and strategic brilliance that Mitch McConnell would have in the minority.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want you to show fight. And you are not fighting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're trying to shield ourselves before we're wounded and we don't know how. Would you mind telling your colleagues in Washington that when they're burning down this house, there's people still inside? My kid is inside.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

WHITFIELD: With me now, Democratic Congressman Mike Levin of California. Great to see you, Congressman. So are you feeling this kind of outrage that we just saw from people in various town halls? Are you feeling that from your constituents?

REP. MIKE LEVIN (D-CA): You know, Fredricka, we just had a town hall that was packed. We had about 500 people there and there were hundreds more that couldn't attend, that had signed up. And it really is unprecedented, the kind of enthusiasm that's out there right now.

People are nervous. They're anxious. But they're also ready to fight back. And that's what I saw at my town hall this past week. I think it's unbelievable that the head of the National Republican Congressional Committee told his members not to have town halls.

I'm encouraged that Democrats are now starting to have town halls in swing Republican districts. And I think it's incumbent on all of us, when we sign up for this job, we know what we're getting into. We have to respond to all constituents and listen to all constituents, whether they vote for us or not. And any member of Congress that doesn't have town halls ought to find another line of work.

WHITFIELD: So you're calling it enthusiasm. When you look at some of these clips, it looks like downright anger, frustration, even real concern and fear. In your area, you're in a district that you helped flip, you know, blue in 2018 after years of Republican control.

But the area, which includes parts of San Diego and Orange counties, is described as purple by some. So in your town halls or in your field office kind of meetings, when people say they are demanding more action from Democrats, what is it specifically that you're able to say? Because I can't imagine that you can just say, I hear you. People want some specificity. What are you able to promise or say?

LEVIN: We're going to fight like crazy with every tool we have. And for me, as a member of the minority party, that still means that we do have some legislative tools, procedural tools. We can do hearings.

You know, this past week, I had a field hearing in my district about what the cuts will mean for veterans. Unfortunately, Republicans won't have those hearings. Republicans won't admit what the harm being done by DOGE, by Elon Musk, and Trump means for their constituents. So Democrats are doing that work.

I will also tell you that people need to understand and remember 2017, 2018, a lot of the organizing came from the grassroots. It didn't come from the top down. It came from the bottom up.

[12:20:02]

When I say enthusiasm, I see hundreds of people on street corners in my district, in South Orange County, the reddest part of my district, yesterday, protesting Elon Musk, protesting the Trump administration.

And I am hearing, Fredricka, from even some Republicans who didn't bargain for this. They don't like everything the Biden administration did, but they certainly don't like what they're seeing now either.

WHITFIELD: So how are you going to measure progress? Yes, there's protesting. Yes, there are people who are loud and expressing themselves, but what is going to provoke change or what is going to be the shield, as that one woman referred to, you know, they need a shield from the harm that is being done. What are you promising? What can you say to that?

LEVIN: I think we've got to fight harder. And I'm proud that House Democrats, every single one of us, except for one, voted against the awful Republican continuing resolution. I wish there had been stronger leadership in the Senate, among the Senate Democrats.

But look, hindsight's 20-20. We're going to move forward. We're going to fight. We have the reconciliation fight ahead. We have the debt limit fight ahead. And I think we should use every tool we have.

Again, legislative, procedural, litigation as well. There are about 140 lawsuits. We're doing very well in many of those. Of course, we have to watch if Trump is going to ignore court orders than we really are in a constitutional crisis.

And again, it's going to be people in Washington, D.C., in the House Democrats, the Senate Democrats, are going to do everything they can. But ultimately, the grassroots, as was the case in 2017, 2018, I believe will be key to what happens over the next year.

WHITFIELD: When you talk about or refer to Democratic leadership, there has been a lot of heat being placed on Senator Schumer, and he is exemplifying why many are saying it's time for new leadership. Are you in that camp?

LEVIN: Well, look, I think that Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer had a conversation this past weekend. I want to know how that went. I want to have a family meeting with my fellow House Democrats.

I know that in the Senate, they don't like when the House noses around in their business. We certainly don't like it when the Senate noses around in our business. But we've got to have a family discussion about how we're going to fight.

These are unprecedented times, and nobody wanted a government shutdown, myself included. But we have to acknowledge that major parts of the government are shut down right now.

When you see the thousands upon thousands of cuts to the V.A., 83,000 is the projected cut, that's about 15 to 20 percent of the V.A. workforce. The Social Security Administration could be cut in half with field offices closed all across this country.

And now what they want to do to the Department of Education, there are major parts of the government that are illegally, unconstitutionally being shut down right now. So we've got to fight with every tool we have against it, and we will.

WHITFIELD: And many of your constituents are veterans. A lot of your district also includes Camp Pendleton Marine Base there. So I'm sure you're hearing from them directly.

Democratic Congressman Mike Levin of California, thanks so much for being with us. Keep us posted on how your hearings, your field hearings go, as well as your town halls.

LEVIN: Thank you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, still ahead, Israel's military says it has carried out airstrikes on Hezbollah targets in Lebanon. What this means for the state of their ceasefire, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:54]

WHITFIELD: All right, new today, Israel says it struck Hezbollah targets in southern Lebanon. Witnesses telling CNN the attacks were widespread. Israel said it was responding after projectiles were fired across the border into Israel.

No significant damage or injuries were reported from those incidents. Hezbollah is denying any involvement.

CNN's Sebastian Shukla is joining us right now. Sebastian, what does this mean for the truce that has been in place since last November now?

SEBASTIAN SHUKLA, CNN INTERNATIONAL PRODUCER: Yes, Fred, I think the way to describe the truce was shaky at best. And this is most certainly the most significant violation of that ceasefire that's taken place since it was signed in November 2024 between Israel and its northern neighbor, Lebanon.

And it came after that period of very intense and brutal fighting that took place in September and October last year, which was the main reason of which was to root out Hezbollah from Lebanon and began with that incredible pictures of those exploding pages.

And, obviously, Hezbollah being the Shia, the Iran-backed Shia militia, hell-bent on the destruction of Israel. This attack, though, began around 7:00 this morning. And I want you to take a listen to the defense chief of one of the towns affected by this Metula.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

GLAZER YOSEF, HEAD OF SECURITY, METULA, ISRAEL (through translation): Around 7.30 in the morning, we woke to a number of incoming rockets. There were sirens. And then the Iron Dome system intercepted a number of rockets that were fired from Lebanon.

We were able to see two fall inside Lebanon. And we immediately got the residents into the shelters.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

SHUKLA: And Prime Minister Netanyahu vowed a robust actions against terror targets. And that retaliation has now already taken place by the Israeli Air Force. We know from Lebanese state media that two people have been killed as a result of these attacks.

And Fred, this obviously comes at a time where the ceasefire negotiations with Gaza have fallen apart and have come to an end. And the -- we've seen this week hundreds of people killed in the Gaza Strip as Israeli forces have gone back into offensive operations there. Fred?

[12:30:12]

WHITFIELD: All right, Sebastian Shukla, thank you so much.

All right, coming up, Pope Francis is getting ready to make his first public appearance since being hospitalized with pneumonia more than a month ago. Details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:35:04]

WHITFIELD: Pope Francis is planning to make his first public appearance since being hospitalized more than a month ago. He is expected to greet the public following Sunday prayers at a Rome hospital where he has been treated for double pneumonia. The pontiff has not made an appearance in five weeks. His pneumonia is under control, but he continues to receive oxygen, according to the Vatican. Pope Francis is 88 years old.

As President Trump seeks to dismantle the Department of Education, he now says the department's massive student loan portfolio, which is larger than all but three U.S. banks, will be handled by the Small Business Association or Administration that is. The transfer plans come as significant cuts are expected at the SBA. On Friday, Kelly Loeffler, the leader of the SBA, announced that the agency is cutting around 43 percent of its workforce, or about 2,700 positions.

President Trump on Friday said that upcoming reciprocal tariffs, so far expected for April 2nd, will not be set in stone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't change, but the word flexibility is an important word. Sometimes it's flexibility, so there'll be flexibility. But basically, it's reciprocal so that if China's charging us 50 percent or 30 percent or 20 percent, and I don't mean China, I mean anybody, any country, Canada.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The President did not elaborate on what exceptions may be made, but pointed to U.S. automakers being exempt from the current 25 percent tariff on goods from Mexico and Canada. And this comes as the European Union says it is delaying a rollout of 50 percent retaliatory tariffs on American whiskey.

The commission announced Thursday that rather than a phased approach beginning April 1st, they will hit all at once, mid-April, pending negotiations. For more on what this means for consumers and local businesses, I'm joined now by Mark Borison, host of the Jungle Jim's podcast, which airs from Jungle Jim's International Market outside Cincinnati, which is a huge food market. And you can also get some home items there. Mark, great to see you.

MARK BORISON, HOST, "JUNGLE JIM'S PODCAST": Oh, my gosh, so glad to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

WHITFIELD: Oh, wonderful. So for those who are not familiar with this market, you know, take us inside the jungle on a typical day. What kinds of goods can shoppers find there?

BORISON: Oh, my gosh. So I -- I always love to describe Jungle Jim's as the Walt Disney and Willy Wonka. We're like, what if we open a grocery store together? So we recently just broke 200,000 different items in the store. We carry food from over 75 different countries.

And so as you walk through our international sections, you'll see each aisle is divided by country of origin, which is really cool. We speak 35 languages in the store.

WHITFIELD: Oh my gosh.

BORISON: I barely speak one well myself. It's incredibly impressive. So all kinds of people, all kinds of things and a little treat for everyone.

WHITFIELD: I see that. So, I mean, you really are going on, you know, an international trip whenever you come to this market. So then tell me, you know, the customers expect great things in products. But then what are you telling customers they might expect soon with the tariffs possibly going into effect? What kind of prices are they going to be looking at? Does it mean that some of their favorite items will no longer be on the shelves or accessible?

BORISON: What's really been interesting about this, and I reached out to all of our actual experts here in the store to make sure I was relaying this properly. But right now, what we're really seeing is just sort of what I would call maybe a little market instability, right? And so because we're not really sure how this is all going to land, I think what's happening is both consumers, you know, and producers are kind of bringing their cards close to the chest, right? We're not sure what the next thing will be.

Now, I think we at Jungle Jim's are in kind of a unique place, right? We're independently owned family business. So we and our buyers have a lot of control over pricing. So, I mean, I'll tell you this, every single person I spoke to about this before this interview, they were like, we will squeeze the margins on our end as long as humanly possible so that customers are not seeing a ton of increases in prices.

WHITFIELD: So we're looking at some of the video here.

BORISON: We -- we've seen a couple different --

WHITFIELD: Yes, just to see the kind of variety. Sorry to interrupt you, but the -- the video is so intriguing and you have been supplying us that and I love your enthusiasm about all these products. But we saw the maple syrup, you know, display, presumably from Canada. People might be able to, you know, expect it's going to cost them more.

BORISON: Right.

WHITFIELD: I don't know what that one big thing, I don't know if that was a big you know tubing of -- of popcorn or cheese, but, you know, OK, I'm told it's cheese. All right, the cheese is from somewhere, you know, likely exotic.

BORISON: It is.

WHITFIELD: So that's going to cost consumers a lot more. Are your customers going to be willing to pay more, you know, without being disgruntled over it?

[12:40:12]

BORISON: You know, I think, unfortunately, I think post COVID, I think consumers across the board are anticipating some price increases in general, right? Like none of us are happy about it. And I think there's a little more -- I think the attitude slightly more lax than it would have if we were having this conversation in 2019, for example, right? I think we're all at that point now where we're like, all right, well, I guess grapes are $3 a pound now, right?

So I'd like to think overall, I think the customers will be understanding. But again, I -- I -- our biggest thing is that even though, here's a great factoid, I found out from both our seafood department and our produce department, they're the ones seeing it the most immediately right now. And they were telling me that both of those departments saw in recent orders about a 25 percent increase in pricing, right? Which is wild to hear. It was wild twofold, right? Seeing how large our orders were really blew my mind.

And then going, oh, 25 percent of that order is still a very large number, right? No, so in seeing that, I'd like to think -- I think our customers are pretty understanding. What I like about the Jungle Jim's audience is that they are educated consumers and they're adventurous. And I think it's really just going to come down to us as a business to go, what's the line, right? Like, how can we prevent the pricing from going up as quickly as possible?

WHITFIELD: When you say what's the line meaning you -- you might even draw the line of, you know what, this is not cost effective, this is too expensive for our customers. We're not even going to stock this product anymore. Is that a line that you are considering?

BORISON: No. I mean, I think it is in consideration. I think there's so much instability right now that no one's really sure. And they're like, we're prepared for any potential option. But that said, I think with the customers being so voracious to try these new things, I imagine that we'll still, provided there's no production supply issues, I imagine we'll continue to carry all those products. But again, it just comes down, the line I was referring to was more about how low can we make our margins before we can't pay our employees type of thing versus, you know what I mean? So that -- so that the customers aren't feeling the squeeze. WHITFIELD: Right.

BORISON: Exactly.

WHITFIELD: Well --

BORISON: So that's been the big focus here. We're like, we want to --

WHITFIELD: Oh, go for it. Finish your thought.

BORISON: Oh, I'm so sorry. No, we just want to make sure everybody still feels comfortable enough to shop and eat. I mean, it's such a basic human thing.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BORISON: We all need to eat.

WHITFIELD: Yes, we -- we certainly do. And we like eating, at least speaking for myself. I really love to eat. Mark Borison, you're making me smile because I love your enthusiasm. And something tells me your customers are just as jazzed as you are about your incredible marketplace there and your podcast. Thanks for being with us and all the best. And let's hope it's not too much discomfort as you put it, you know, on the road ahead because yes, we need to eat. We -- we really need to eat. Mark, thank you.

BORISON: I'm hungry. Thank you so much for having me.

[12:42:59]

WHITFIELD: Me too. I'm hungry right now. All right, thank you. Great having you. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A CNN investigation has found that hundreds of families of veterans who died by suicide after being discharged from active duty have been denied crucial benefits. Under strict V.A. rules, the families must submit medical documentation showing the death of their loved ones stemmed from their time in the military. But that's sometimes impossible. CNN's Kyung Lah spoke with several surviving spouses.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EMILY EVANS, SURVIVING SPOUSE: I feel stuck. We're stuck and the V.A. is keeping us there.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Emily Evans can't move forward.

EVANS: And your kids?

E. EVANS: Stuck. Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes it feel like he's almost still here but just in a different way.

LAH (voice-over): Four children and their mother suspended in time, trapped in loss and bureaucratic battles with the very agency dedicated to care for the soldier's family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love Daddy so much that if I don't have his baby blanket, I'll get nightmares.

SGT. MICHAEL EVANS, DECEASED ARMY VETERAN: Morning, Love, got me some coffee?

LAH (voice-over): Her father was Army Sergeant Michael Evans, an infantryman who deployed to Iraq twice, surviving more than two years of some of the war's worst combat, suffering traumatic brain injury from multiple IEDs.

E. EVANS: It's not bad.

M. EVANS: It's not bad?

LAH (voice-over): Once home, a full life appeared to resume, but the war never left him.

E. EVANS: He came in the house one day, he stood -- he stood right here. He just wanted to be held. And it was like his demons were standing right here in the room and I was trying to pull him back. And that was probably three days before he just snapped.

LAH (voice-over): Evans says her husband descended into a months-long depressive crisis, straining their marriage and family.

LAH: That began five months of his decline.

E. EVANS: Horror.

LAH: Horror.

E. EVANS: Yes.

LAH: When you describe it as horror, like, could you recognize --

E. EVANS: He stopped taking care of himself. He was paranoid. He was hyper-alert. Stressed. Panicky. Stopped laughing. Stopped being silly. He almost stopped being a dad. I mean, he was just gone. It just got worse every day and he couldn't take it anymore.

[12:50:14]

LAH (voice-over): Two years ago, Michael Evans died by suicide.

LAH: After Michael passed, did you reach out to the V.A.? Did you file a benefits claim?

E. EVANS: They eventually sent a letter and they decided that Michael's PTSD was not significant and that the reason he died by suicide was because he was having increased stress at work and going through a divorce, which was just all part of this crisis.

LAH (voice-over): The V.A. denied her request for death benefits, a monthly payment to family members after a service-related death.

LAH: Positive for PTSD, positive for depression. These are the V.A.'s --

E. EVANS: These are the V.A.'s --

LAH: Own tests. Own doctors.

E. EVANS: Own documents. It's all PTSD. It's all his service. It's all from combat.

LAH (voice-over): A CNN Investigation found the V.A. denied crucial benefits to hundreds of families of veterans who died by suicide. We counted nearly 500 cases, but that's likely just a fraction of the total number. The V.A. says it doesn't track how many suicide-related claims it processes. So exactly how many families have been denied remains unknown and many veterans are reluctant to seek help. It's up to survivors to prove their loved ones suffered from PTSD.

LINDA GOULDING, SURVIVING SPOUSE: I would not wish these last nine years on my worst enemy.

This is everything that I had given to the V.A.

LAH (voice-over): Linda Goulding is a widow who was denied and appealed. Goulding submitted to the V.A. doctor's reports and a letter from her husband.

GOULDING: And it started out that it had started on this day and it will end on this day.

LAH (voice-over): That day marked 40 years that Goulding's husband James had left Vietnam.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want? Do you want a --

LAH (voice-over): Even as a loving grandfather, Goulding carried the weight of his Marine Corps battalion known as "The Walking Dead." It suffered one of the highest casualty rates of the war. On that 40-year anniversary, he threatened to end his own life. His wife called police.

GOULDING: They banged on the door. They called out his name, and when they went in, they heard a shot and then a thud.

LAH: When you went to the V.A., what did the V.A. say?

GOULDING: I had to prove that he had PTSD.

LAH (voice-over): Proving it took her nine years. Our investigation found families like the Gouldings spent on average five-and-a-half years trying to win benefits. Many don't ever get them.

GOULDING: I want the V.A. to help the other people with more empathy, so other women would not have to do this ever, ever.

LAH (voice-over): Emily Evans is in the middle of her battle with the V.A., haunted she says by promises not honored.

LAH: What would you like to tell the V.A.?

E. EVANS: I would like to see V.A. take responsibility for this. I would like to see them step up. My husband did not die in the war, but his mind did, and he deserves better. He deserved better, and he's not the only one.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Kyung Lah, thank you so much for that report.

The V.A. declined CNN's request for an on-camera interview, instead issuing this statement saying, in part, the V.A. is under new management. We're working across the department to improve survivor programs so that beneficiaries can have the most supportive, convenient, and seamless experience possible in their time of grief, end quote.

[12:54:36]

And if you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts or mental health matters, call or text the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Jake Tapper is back tomorrow with an all new United States of Scandal episode that focuses on the 1991 U.S. Senate hearing surrounding Clarence -- Clarence Thomas' nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court and Anita Hill's testimony. Be sure to tune in to an all new episode of United States of Scandal with Jake tapper tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.

[12:59:59]

Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Frederica Whitfield and we begin this hour with a warning from the FBI urging the public to be on alert for any signs of planned attacks against Tesla vehicles and property.