Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Rescinds Security Clearances Of Political Rivals; Trump Orders DOJ To Review Lawyers And Firms; Several Democratic Lawmakers Face Angry Voters At Town Halls; Many Drivers Breaking Up With Tesla Over Elon Musk; Columbia University Changes Policy In Dispute Over Federal Funding; Questions Of The Impact Of Taking Apart The Education Dept; Trump Wants "Golden Dome" To Shield The U.S. From Long-Range Missiles; Trump Announces New F-47 Fighter Jet Will Be Built By Boeing; Pope Francis To Be Released From Hospital Tomorrow. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired March 22, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:02]

ROY WOOD JR., CNN HOST: He had them with the setup. He was like, I believe President Zelenskyy -- should have signed -- Amber, I have another Nebraska question.

AMBER RUFFIN, CNN CO-HOST: Yes.

WOOD: How mad does a white person have to be to give the double thumbs down?

RUFFIN: This is the first time I've ever seen such a thing.

BLACK: I'll be honest. I don't even know that I can do that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's really unprecedented.

WOOD: Because like when white people need to double thumb, that's like when black people go --

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, watch "HAVE I GOT NEWS FOR YOU" tonight 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.

All right. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Jessica Dean is up next.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in Washington.

And President Trump is once again going after his political rivals. Now, this time he's ordering the federal government to pull the security clearances for more than a dozen former government officials, including former Vice President Kamala Harris and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. This isn't the first time President Trump has pulled security

clearances of political opponents. Last month, he revoked former President Joe Biden's security clearance.

CNN reporter Alayna Treene is joining us now with more on this.

Alayna, who does this cover and what exactly does it mean?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, Jessica, as you mentioned, the president late last night directed federal agencies to revoke the security clearances of more than a dozen of his perceived political enemies. You mentioned former Vice President Kamala Harris, as well as former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, but he also revoked the security clearances of former Republican congressmen Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.

Now, this is what the president used to cite why he was doing this. He said, quote, "It is no longer in the national interest for the following individuals to access classified information." Now, one of these people that he's targeted, Adam Kinzinger, he posted this this morning essentially saying that he no longer had a security clearance. He said, quote, "MAGA is mad that Trump's stripping my non-existent security clearance means literally nothing and is funny."

But, look, this latest move by the president is not, as you mentioned the first time that he has done this. In February, he said that he was immediately going to revoke the security clearance of former President Joe Biden, as well as end his daily intelligence briefing. We know that he also directed his director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, to do the same with a series of other former Biden administration officials, people like Antony Blinken, the former secretary of state, for example.

But I will say this isn't the first president or the first time a president has done this. Back in 2021, when former President Joe Biden was in office, he was actually the first president to ever kind of do this sort of move. He said that he was ending then former president Donald Trump's daily intelligence briefing, saying that he did not trust him because of his erratic behavior.

So you can sort of get the idea here, Jessica, where the president came up with this, almost like a tit-for-tat, but this was really a serious escalation of that with this move to do it to more than a dozen people, again, that he views as his opponents.

DEAN: Yes. Alayna, certainly. And I think it's also worth noting that Trump ordered his attorney general, Pam Bondi, to review the conduct of lawyers and law firms that his administration thinks have filed frivolous lawsuits against the president or have attempted to block immigration initiatives. What can you tell us about this? Because this is going after lawyers and private law firms.

TREENE: That's exactly right. And it's really been escalated in recent days, Jessica. We've seen the president now move to revoke the security clearances, but also end federal contracts for lawyers and law firms that, he argues, has clashed with him and his administration, but also, as you said, has argued that perhaps are frivolous lawsuits against the government.

Now, in a late night memo yesterday, he directed his attorney general, Pam Bondi, to conduct a formal review of the different moves by these different law firms and lawyers. Part of that memo said, quote, directing Bondi to, quote, "seek sanctions against attorneys and law firms who engage in frivolous, unreasonable and vexatious litigation against the United States." But it also directed Bondi to review conduct by attorneys or their law firms in litigation against the federal government over the last eight years.

Now, to parse that a bit, we've already seen some of this play out with the president's actions thus far. For example, some of the lawyers and law firms he's targeted, one of them being Covington and Burling. Some of the lawyers who work for Covington and Burling were those who worked closely with former special counsel Jack Smith. They are included in some of this effort to revoke and suspend their security clearances.

We've also seen him take moves against one law firm that works with, or has a partner with Mark Pomerantz.

[16:05:04]

He was the person who was then in the Manhattan District Attorney's Office and worked on the case, the case against Donald Trump with hush money payments to former adult film star Stormy Daniels.

So you can see here again where the president is going with this. A lot of this is targeting his political enemies and his opponents. It's something as well that has been really met with widespread backlash and condemnation across the country.

Even some judges, Jessica, have been trying to get involved in this. So this is not the last you've heard of it. I suspect we'll see a lot more of this playing out in the future weeks.

DEAN: Certainly. Alayna Treene for us there in New Jersey. Thank you so much for that reporting.

Meantime, Democrats on the defensive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Soulless piece of crap I've ever seen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's your opinion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Soulless. Soulless.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, get off -- sir. Sir, get off --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Several lawmakers today from both the House and Senate meeting face to face with some very upset voters. Many are frustrated with how the party is fighting back against President Trump, Elon Musk and DOGE.

CNN national political correspondent Eva McKend is joining us now with more on this.

Eva, there are a host of town halls happening across the country today. You've been monitoring all of these. What are you seeing?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Jess, I saw it for myself this week in Las Vegas and even in rural pockets of Pennsylvania before that, there is a hunger from voters for Democrats to be the opposition party rather than just the minority party. As much as President Trump is operating in this moment as if he has a mandate, 75 million people did not sign up for this.

Democrats across the country are looking for a fight. They tell me if lawmakers have to occupy the halls of Congress or the White House, so be it. Anything to confront what they view as the erosion of our institutions and the potential elimination of vital services.

Now, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, they are answering the call here with this "Fight the Oligarchy" tour. Take a listen to what the congresswoman had to say today in Arizona.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): What these folks want to call radical, I believe is common sense.

(CHEERS)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think that in the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, if a person gets sick, they shouldn't go bankrupt. I believe that a minimum wage should cover the minimum cost to live. Common sense. And Tucson, I believe that homes are not slot machines for investors and big banks to extort working families out of every last dollar that we have.

Home is sacred, and you deserve a government that fights to help you keep an affordable roof over your head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: And so, Jess, a strategy is emerging clearly, at least in some corners, to try to train the frustration on the common enemy of those hoarding the wealth in this country, and what we see from Senator Sanders, from the congresswoman there is them trying to broaden the coalition of voters that they can capture and then recapture some of the working class voters that Democrats lost in the last election. Time will tell if this strategy works -- Jess.

DEAN: Right. And yes, and if the Democratic Party writ large will want to go that direction as well.

Eva McKend, thank you so much for that. Joining us now, national politics reporter for the "Washington Post,"

Sabrina Rodriguez, and Alex Isenstadt, he is a senior political reporter for Axios and author of the new book "Revenge: The Inside Story of Trump's Return to Power."

Great to have both of you here with us this afternoon. I want to go back to where we started at the top of our show.

Alex, I want to start with you on President Trump pulling these security clearances for some of his political rivals, including Hillary Clinton, Kamala Harris and others. What are you hearing about what this is about? Is it about more than just sending a message? Is it simply just retribution?

ALEX ISENSTADT, SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER, AXIOS: I think it's both. Look, "Revenge" is the title of my book. It was something that he joked about behind the scenes during his campaign. He knew it was a theme of his campaign and now it's becoming a theme of his White House. So to some extent, you're right. He is exacting revenge on the people who have opposed him in the past, especially as it relates to those involved in the justice system, which was a big focus of Trump's during the few years when he was under indictment.

And also, it is about sending a message. It is about sort of stoking fear and making people afraid to cross him. And so that's a big part of what's going on right now.

DEAN: It is fascinating to watch that play out. And, Sabrina, I want to ask you what Eva, on the other hand, was talking about as well, these town halls where I know Republicans, you know, listen, we can do it on both sides. Republicans who are afraid to have these town halls, certainly because they're getting a lot of pushback. But Democrats also feeling the fury of these voters, as we were seeing in those clips, and the party trying to figure out where -- how it wants to move forward, if there's a message to coalesce around.

[16:10:10]

What are you hearing about this?

SABRINA RODRIGUEZ, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: I mean, I think what's interesting here is for the past few weeks, we've heard Democrats sort of, you know, touting how Republicans were not showing up for town halls and sort of talking about how they were going to go into these red districts, and they were going to have conversations with voters, but in their own home districts, Democrats are finding anger.

And it's because a lot of their voters, a lot of their base, don't understand what it is that they're doing in Washington, D.C. right now. It feels like, you know, Trump is announcing 100 different actions a day. There's so much happening coming out of this administration, and it's unclear what the strategy is for the Democratic Party. It's unclear who the leader of the Democratic Party is. Of course, there's a lot of frustration built up specifically from how the debate over, you know, the potential government shutdown played out with, you know, Chuck Schumer deciding that, you know, he was going to help usher the votes for them to be able to advance the GOP's bill, the spending bill.

So right now, there's just a lot of frustration and saying, OK, what is the resistance to Donald Trump's actions? Are Democrats really showing up? And that's sort of what they're answering for on the road.

DEAN: Yes. And one thing we continue to hear in these town halls, we continue to hear from voters, fears about any potential cuts or changes to Social Security or any entitlements. I do want to play this clip from the Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick. It made the round in the last 24 hours. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: Let's say Social Security didn't send out their checks this month, my mother-in-law, who's 94, she wouldn't call and complain. She just wouldn't. She'd think something got messed up and she'll get it next month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

LUTNICK: A fraudster always makes the loudest noise, screaming and yelling and complaining. And if all the guys who did PayPal like Elon knows this by heart, right? Anybody who's been in the payment system and the processing system knows the easiest way to find the fraudster is to stop payments and listen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So more than 69 million people in America receive these Social Security benefits. And obviously a lot of them rely on that as their sole income.

Alex, the Trump administration has gone to great lengths to say, no, no, don't worry. We're not going to do anything to Social Security. But these comments where he says, stop the payments, let's see what happens, what does that do in terms of the messaging there? And how concerned is the Trump administration about that sort of messaging?

ISENSTADT: So Lutnick is someone who has gotten attention internally within the White House and in broader Republican Party circles, for that matter, for kind of going off message sometimes. He's someone who's incredibly vocal. He's someone who's incredibly media friendly. But there have been a few times now where he's gone on TV and said some things that come off to a lot of people within Trump world as a little off-message.

Don't forget, he went on TV this past week and urged people to buy Tesla stock. Right? So he's had a few what are considered to be off- message moments. But you can bet that Donald Trump understands that entitlements are sort of the third rail of politics. You don't touch it, right? It's dangerous. And when you do, it can cost you electorally. So you could bet that the Democratic ad makers who are preparing for next year's midterms are cutting that clip you just showed and saving it for future ads. DEAN: Yes. And so, Sabrina, how do you think something like that plays

into this political moment right now?

RODRIGUEZ: I mean, this could be very costly for Trump if, you know, if we continue to see moments and clips like this and like Alex just said, I mean, there's no question that we're going to be seeing ads cut in the very near future with that. We're already seeing how much they focused on Elon Musk and comments that Musk has already made, you know, in TV interviews and such. But, you know, from being on the road and talking to voters last year on the campaign trail, talking to a lot of folks who were supporting Donald Trump, who were showing up for his rallies, I mean, this is an area that they trusted that he will not touch.

He repeatedly said he was not going to touch Social Security. So this, of course, raises, you know, some flags, some red flags, some concerns for folks. And, you know, to what Lutnick is saying, for a lot of Americans, if that check doesn't come in at the beginning of the month, they will notice and they will be calling someone, you know, they will be wanting to find out. And if certain cuts happen to the Social Security administration as proposed by this administration, they will be feeling it when they try to call and there is no one to answer.

So it's something that's a matter of time as we see those cuts play out. But it could really impact how voters view this administration.

DEAN: Yes. And Alex, of course, now we kind of look to Congress and congressional Republicans to see how they're going to guide Trump's agenda through Congress and see what they can get done in terms of that tax bill and whatever kind of cuts they're going to want to make. And again, it kind of circles us back to this in terms of their messaging to the American people not touching some of these services that people count on.

[16:15:04]

What is the administration expecting from congressional Republicans? What are kind of the conversations that are happening right now?

ISENSTADT: The administration is expecting congressional Republicans to do what they want and to be in complete alignment with them. And there's not a lot of indication that congressional Republicans are going to break from the Trump administration anytime soon. There is a lot of fear within -- among House Republicans, Senate Republicans, that if they do break from the administration, it could cost them a primary challenge potentially.

DEAN: All right, Sabrina Rodriguez, Alex Isenstadt, great to see you. Thanks so much.

And still ahead, we're going to talk with someone who once ran the Education Department as President Trump lays out his plans to dismantle the agency. Plus, Trump is pushing the Pentagon to keep up with China as America's long running rivalry with Beijing takes a new shape under Trump. But first, many drivers are turning away from Tesla. Some are trying to hide their car's markings or sell them all together, and they're blaming Elon Musk's involvement with the Trump administration. More on that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:20:49]

DEAN: The FBI just put out a public alert warning people to be on alert for any signs of planned attacks against Tesla vehicles and property. Multiple Tesla facilities have been targeted in recent months, with some vehicles spray painted, others set on fire, buildings graffitied. And President Trump, who has aligned himself, of course, with Tesla owner Elon Musk, had strong words for the perpetrators.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I looked at those showrooms burning and those cars, not one or two, like seven, eight, 10, burning, exploding all over the place, these are terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: The president has also suggested those responsible could be sent to jail in El Salvador.

CNN's Julia Vargas Jones reports on the growing backlash against Musk and his brand.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE ROMER, SELLING HIS TESLA: Password incorrect. Of course it's incorrect.

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rolling his Model Y back to factory settings, Joe Romer is a Tesla owner no more.

A week ago, while covering a protest at a Tesla service center, we found Romer as he drove past the picket line.

ROMER: I'm in the process of getting my car repaired so that I can sell it.

JONES: Today, he says a weight is lifted.

ROMER: I feel better because I was getting to the point where this was being embarrassing driving this car because of Elon Musk and the things he's doing right now, and that just I find annoying and not acceptable.

JONES: Even though he's selling for less than a third of what he originally paid four years ago, Romer is not alone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From our hub as I were picking up eight Teslas today. JONES: In 2025, thousands of Americans are breaking up with the

automaker. Tesla cars for model year 2017 or newer made up 1.4 percent of all vehicles traded in through mid-March. That's more than triple the rate from this time last year, according to Edmund's data shared with Reuters. And some Tesla drivers are hiding in plain sight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then I just took my finger and I just pulled it off. It makes me feel like I'm doing something.

JONES: Masking a Tesla costs almost nothing. But in the week Romer waited to sell, he got $800 less for the car.

BRIAN MOODY, KELLEY BLUE BOOK SENIOR STAFF EDITOR: There's always going to be opportunity to either do the right thing, or at least signal that youre doing the right thing. But for most people, the average consumer, taking the hit on the depreciation of a relatively expensive electric car by selling it just to prove a point is not something that they're in the business of doing.

JONES: Protests continue at dealerships across the country, and some Tesla properties have become targets. Torched with Molotov cocktails, shot at, and defaced. And all this comes as Tesla faces new headaches, including potential import tariff woes and recalls after Cybertruck panels have been reportedly falling off. The stock price has also plunged. That has liberals cheering.

GOV. TIM WALTZ (D), FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They've got that little stock app. I added Tesla to it to give me a little boost during the day.

JONES: And the Trump administration taking unprecedented steps to defend the company. On Thursday, Attorney General Pam Bondi announced charges against three people accused of destroying Tesla property in Oregon, Colorado and South Carolina. If convicted, each faces a minimum of five years and up to 20 behind bars. And on Friday, President Trump comparing attacks on Tesla facilities to the January 6th insurrection.

TRUMP: Well, I view these people as terrorists just like others. These are -- when I looked at those showrooms burning and those cars, not one or two, like seven, eight, 10, burning, exploding all over the place, these are terrorists. You didn't have that on January 6th.

JONES: All of that going too far for Romer.

ROMER: It is done.

JONES: How do you feel?

ROMER: Better.

JONES: Better?

ROMER: Happy.

(END VIDEOTAPE) DEAN: All right. That was Julia Vargas Jones reporting for us. Thanks so much for that.

A prestigious ivy league school is making some policy changes amid a dispute over federal funding. What they are, I'll tell you.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:29:23]

DEAN: Tonight, Columbia University is bowing to President Trump's demands, announcing it will change a number of policies after the president slashed $400 million in funding over pro-Palestinian protests at the university's campus last year.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino is live in New York with more details on this.

Walk us through, Gloria, what the university is doing?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, it's a remarkable concession to the Trump administration by Columbia University. Here you have one of the country's most elite educational institutions essentially conforming to many of the Trump's demands over this $400 million threat. The administration had said that it would cut federal funding to the university if it did not do anything to address anti- Semitic violence and harassment, as described by the administration.

[16:30:13]

This is all tracing back to the protests that we saw on campus last year, from students protesting the Israel-Hamas war.

So again, what's happening here is we're seeing the school's sort of response to the administrations concerns, and they're going to make several policy changes, including hiring campus police officers that will have the power to arrest protesters and police those protests.

They're banning the use of face coverings at protests. They will require university I.D.s at the protests. They won't be allowed to protest at academic buildings. And there will be new anti- discrimination policies and disciplinary powers for the provost.

Now, perhaps one of the most controversial policy changes, Jessica, is that they are going to appoint a senior vice provost, who will be in charge of overseeing the Middle Eastern, South Asian and African Studies Department.

So the question now is how will the student body respond in addition to faculty members? And we're starting to at least get some sort of public signal of support for many of these changes in the form of a letter that was sent by the Board of Trustees this weekend.

The letter was sent to the academic community. And in the letter, the trustees say that they are endorsing the policy changes and they sort of express support for the interim president of the university.

They said in part, quote, "We have and continue to support Interim President Armstrong's approach."

They also wrote, "We are grateful for her principled and courageous leadership during this unprecedented time and for the steps she has and is taking to strengthen our institution."

So here you have the Board of Trustees, which has a lot of power. They are in charge of picking the university president, overseeing the budget and the endowment. They're also in charge of overseeing the university properties. And they're essentially saying we are fully behind these changes.

Now, the school is currently on spring break. Students are expected back next week. And we'll see how they respond.

The question in all of this, the $400 million question, if you will, is whether or not this is going to be enough for the Trump administration to not revoke their funding -- Jessica?

DEAN: All right. More to come on this.

Gloria Pazmino, thanks for that reporting.

And joining us now is the former education secretary under President Obama, Arne Duncan.

Thank you so much for being here with us.

First, before we get into more Department of Education and what's going on there, I do want to ask you about these changes from Columbia University and what you think the impact will be of Columbia conforming to these demands?

ARNE DUNCAN, FORMER EDUCATION SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Yes, that's a great question. I have a very different take.

Everything with Trump is about retribution, It's about revenge. If you go back about 20, 25 years, Columbia was looking to expand. They looked at some property that Trump owned. He asked for $400 million for it, and they rejected him.

So what he's doing now is a 25-year, decade-long retribution for not paying him back in the day.

And I really, really worry that these -- these higher education institutions, Ivy League institutions have no idea of the tsunami that's about to hit them.

He very intentionally targets universities with female presidents. That's not a coincidence. And he's a schoolyard bully. And if you give the schoolyard bully your lunch money, they don't not ask for it or take it. The next day, they come back and take it and take it.

So I have a very different take. I've talked to many university administrators and faculty over the past couple of weeks. There's never been this kind of level of fear and concern about what's going to happen.

But I'll give you sort of a -- a wild thought just to think about, rather than caving to Trump's demands, which is just a bullying tactic, $400 million, which is not a random number. That goes back to the to the history there.

What if 400 other universities stood up together and each gave Columbia $1 million? This can't be any one university's job to fight this alone. When Columbia gets attacked, you need 2,000, 3,000 university presidents standing up and saying, we're not going to go for this.

And I think they're -- you know, they somehow think if they're silent, you know, maybe Trump won't come and get them. But that's not how this is going to play out.

And so I'm very, very concerned not just in this situation and many others about the attacks to higher education, attacks to elite universities that are coming -- that are going to come from Trump and his team.

DEAN: And so, if I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like you don't -- you think this has much less to do with actually the protests that happened on campus? The concerns from Jewish students feeling like they weren't safe? That this is more about retribution for Trump?

[16:35:09]

DUNCAN: Everything -- Trump always acts out of retribution. And the $400 million that's picked out of thin air. That's not a random number. That goes back to the price he was asking before. That's the direct through line here.

That's very important for your viewers to understand. He is all about revenge. He's all about where he feels slighted or feels like people didn't respect him.

Folks in New York know who he is. They know he's a con artist. He -- he hates that. And so he'll attack them anywhere, anytime he can.

But he will continue to go after other universities across the country. And those universities are used to being revered. They're used to being a bit of an ivory tower, highly respected.

He sees them as weak. He sees them as easy fodder to attack. And they're going to have to stand up together, or they're going to fall one by one.

DEAN: OK. I do want to talk about the Department of Education as well, because he -- this executive order that he's now signed obviously aims to start dismantling the Department of Education, the very department that you yourself ran for -- for years.

I want to listen to how the current education secretary, Linda McMahon, explains this decision. This is what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to be returning education, very simply, back to the states where it belongs. And this is a very popular thing to do. But much more importantly, it's a common-sense thing to do.

They want it so badly. They want to take their children back and really teach their children individually. Probably the cost will be half and the education will be maybe many, many times better.

LINDA MCMAHON, EDUCATION SECRETARY: That is the goal of the president, too, is to have as few strings and regulation as possible.

He wants to improve education for children. He wants to get those dollars, even more dollars back to the states without the bureaucracy of Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So, Secretary Duncan, they -- that's their argument they're making. They're saying this is common sense. It needs to go back to the states. That -- that we need to cut regulation for education. What do you say to that?

DUNCAN: Well, it's good to listen to. There's at least three lies in those two minutes that he spoke.

First of all, this is not popular. Two-thirds of Americans don't want the Department of Education dismantled, going away. So that's dishonest.

Secondly is, as you know, education is already at the states, 90 percent of funding K to 12 already comes at the state and local level. So I can say congratulations, mission accomplished.

The federal government is the minority investor. What they do -- do is add additional resources for our most vulnerable children, children with special needs, children who live below the poverty line, children who live in rural communities, folks receiving Pell Grants with the chance to go to college for the first time in their family.

That's what -- that's who the Department of Education serves. It takes resources away from them. That's a major problem.

And then finally, it is laughable for him to say the cost would be half. I mean, it's nonsensical. It doesn't even make any sense what he's saying.

And so it's just fundamentally dishonest. And what's most disheartening to me is not that the lines, not the -- the dishonesty, is that we actually have an education crisis in our country now.

We have a reading crisis. We have far too many children across the country not reading at grade level. The recent NAEP scores we're extraordinarily concerning.

We had tens of millions of kids too far behind before Covid. Coming out of Covid, they were even further behind. We should be united as a country to help them catch up.

And not a single thing, not a word Trump has uttered and not a single thing he has done helps one child in America better learn how to read. And that's the absolute travesty in all of this.

DEAN: And so I am also curious, in your experience, your time at the Department of Education, what did you see as the biggest weakness, where it could improve?

And to your point, how -- what needs to change so more children can read at grade level where they need to be reading?

DUNCAN: Why does the -- fundamentally, education is in our nations interest? It's our national interest. I would say a great military is our best defense, but a great education system is our best offense.

And we would never relegate, you know, the Navy or Marines or the Army to 50 states because it's too important.

And so what I think, at the federal level, what we absolutely need are some education goals, which we have none. Some education strategies to achieve those goals, which we have none.

And third, some clear metrics to measure our progress and be publicly transparent and accountable for that. That's what we need at the federal level, goals, strategies, ways to measure them, and public transparency behind that.

Again, nothing, nothing Trump has said addresses any of those issues.

DEAN: All right, Arne Duncan, thank you for your time. We appreciate it.

DUNCAN: Thank you.

DEAN: President Trump wants to spare no expense, he says, in building a massive defense system to protect the entire country from missiles, something similar to Israel's Iron Dome.

[16:39:53]

And that has the Pentagon now scrambling to try to make that happen, even as some officials privately wonder if it's even possible.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: As the Trump administration works to drastically shrink the U.S. government, Donald Trump is pushing the Pentagon to build what he calls a Golden Dome defense system to protect the country from long- range missile strikes.

Now, this would be similar to Israel's Iron Dome, except Israel is only the size of about -- of New Jersey, with America obviously much larger. Experts say it would be virtually impossible.

But sources tell CNN the White House is signaling no expense will be spared to make this happen.

Joining us to talk more about this is retired Air Force Colonel and CNN military analyst, Cedric Leighton.

Always good to see you, Cedric.

[16:45:00]

Let's start, first, with this idea of a Golden Dome defense system for the United States of America. Could that even be effective in a -- in a country that is this geographically large?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, yes. Geographically large, as I think a very relevant point here, Jessica.

It's great to be with you.

The size of Israel is a little bit over 8,400 square miles. The United States has a square mileage of approximately 3.8 million square miles. So there's a large geographic difference between what the Iron Dome would cover and what the Golden Dome would cover just because of that geography.

So normally, what you have in a case like this is you look for the kinds of things that you want to protect. So you'd want to protect a city like New York City or Washington or San Francisco.

And you would want to make sure that everything is set up so that it would protect those areas.

If an incoming missile goes after an area that is not populated, that is less of a risk than if it goes after an area that is populated, or that is an important part of our infrastructure or our government.

So those are the targets that you want to protect. So whatever they come up with when it comes to the Golden Dome is going to have to really concentrate on the areas that we think need the most protection.

And that's going to, I think, drive the plans for it, the architecture of this and also, of course, the costs.

DEAN: It's also -- so we think about it in terms of actual physical size. There's also the geography of this, which, in Israel, obviously, that is a country that is surrounded by nations that and -- and territories that are that can attack it or have attacked it.

In this case, the United States obviously has oceans on both sides, and then Canada and Mexico. Do you think we need a defense system like this?

LEIGHTON: Well, certainly not against either Canada or Mexico. And that's you know -- that's one thing that you have to look at, where is the threat actually coming from?

So if the system is going to be designed to go after hypersonic missiles, which have a global or at least a potential global range, such as those that you find in Russia or in China, that would then be actually a different answer to -- to your question because the threat would actually come from overseas.

So those oceans do protect us to an extent. But the range of missiles, such as a hypersonic missile like the Kinzhal or one of those missiles from the Russians, that would create a situation where you would need some kind of protection against those missiles.

But because they are so fast, that also then becomes a challenge for any system that is built to go after them.

On the good news side of that, though, the Ukrainians have demonstrated that they can shoot down some of the hypersonic missiles using the Patriot system that already exists and, of course, and is U.S. technology.

DEAN: Yes. And we also learned that Boeing has been awarded this $20 billion contract to build a new fighter jet, dubbed the F-47. This is going to have technology designed to be able to penetrate air defenses of potential enemies like China or Russia.

So on that note, how would you evaluate the state of our Air Force, our military, and what kind of update -- what this update might mean?

LEIGHTON: Yes. So right now, the state of our Air Force is pretty good when it comes to penetrating enemy air defenses as they currently exist, such as the Russian air defense system or the Chinese air defense system, if you take those countries as potential adversaries.

And the systems that we have, the F-22 and the F-35 are capable of penetrating those air defenses. The F-47 is designed to replace the F- 22, but it has a kind of a dual role, fighter bomber-type role in its initial designs, at least.

So the question then becomes, what kind of upgrades would the Russians make to their air defense system, or the Chinese make to their air defenses that would necessitate an aircraft like this?

The one thing that is also driving this is the air defense question, is one. The other is what kind of aircraft are the Chinese building? And they last month, they advertised the development of a possible sixth generation fighter of their own, which could potentially be a competitor to the F-47.

And so that's where a lot of the design questions will come into play. And that could also be a cost driver for this new aircraft.

DEAN: Yes. All right Cedric Leighton, as always thanks so much. We appreciate it.

Pope --

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jessica. Any time.

DEAN: Thank you.

[16:49:30]

Pope Francis is on the mend and about to go home. We'll give you an update when we come back. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: London's Heathrow Airport says it is now fully operational after a power outage yesterday caused widespread chaos and cancellations.

One of the world's busiest airports was forced to shut down after a fire broke out nearby, grounding more than 1300 flights and disrupting travel for more than 200,000 passengers.

After a 38-day stay in the hospital, doctors say Pope Francis will head home tomorrow.

CNN reporter, Barbie Latza Nadeau, has more on the news coming from the Vatican.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN REPORTER: After five weeks in the hospital fighting respiratory infection and double pneumonia, Pope Francis will finally be going back to Vatican City, where he's expected to continue his treatment as his at his residence, Santa Marta.

We heard from his doctors at the Gemelli Hospital where he was admitted on February 14th with a respiratory infection that was later confirmed to be double pneumonia.

Let's hear what his doctors had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SERGIO ALFER, HEAD OF POPE FRANCIS' CARE TEAM: The Holy Father will be discharged tomorrow, as we said before, in a stable clinical condition with a prescription to partially continue drug therapy and convalescence and rest period at least two months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:54:57]

NADEAU: So Pope Francis won't be able to get right back to work, as he might have hoped to do. He'll have to spend these two months convalescing, continuing his therapy, his physiotherapy, his respiratory therapy, and trying to get his strength back before he can get back to the business of being pope.

Barbie Latza Nadeau, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE) DEAN: Barbie, thank you.

A report from the world's top climate scientist says 2024 was the hottest year ever recorded and fueled climate disasters all around the world. So what does it take to rebuild in areas that might see even more destructive hurricanes or floods or fires in the future?

CNN chief climate correspondent, Bill Weir, met some of the people who found creative ways to adapt. And you can see all of his reporting in an all new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER." It is tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. only here on CNN.

Still ahead, how the deportation showdown between the Trump administration and a federal judge is ballooning into one of the biggest fights so far of Trump's second term.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)