Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump: Musk Wasn't Briefed On China War Plan In Pentagon Meeting; U.S. Envoy Steve Witkoff In Personal Meeting With Putin; Second Navy Warship Deployed To Southern Border; WI Voters Set To Pick New State Supreme Court Justice On April 1; CNN Travels To Wisconsin Ahead Of Key Supreme Court Election; Secy of State Marco Rubio Denies Reports He Feels Frustrated Over Being Overshadowed By Trump Envoy Steve Witkoff; The Death Benefits Battle Between The V.A. And Families Of Veterans Who Died By Suicide; Families Of Veterans Who Died By Suicide Battle V.A. For Benefits. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired March 22, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in Washington and we begin this hour with President Trump pushing back on reports Elon Musk was set to be briefed on U.S. military plans for any potential war with China.

Here he was in the Oval Office, Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We don't have a potential war with China, but I can tell you, if we did, we are very well equipped to handle it, but I don't want to show that to anybody.

But certainly, you wouldn't show it to a businessman who is helping us so much.

You know, Elon has businesses in China and he would be susceptible, perhaps to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Those comments coming after Musk did visit The Pentagon meeting with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth for more than an hour.

Joining us tonight is CNN senior military analyst and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, Retired Admiral James Stavridis.

We also want to note he is a partner at the investment firm, The Carlyle Group and has a new book, "The Admiral's Bookshelf" that I do want to talk about here in just a minute. But first, welcome. Thanks for being here.

I do want to talk about Musk's visit to The Pentagon. There have been a lot of questions around conflict of interest, given his business ties to China. What are some of the concerns of someone in that type of position with top secret security clearance, possibly having access to that sort of information? Even President Trump alluded to that.

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, you have to agree with President Trump on this one when he says Elon Musk is a businessman and there might be conflicts. So let's start with that. We've got the President of the United States agreeing with that. Number two, I know these war plans intimately, obviously, I served seven years as a regional commander, combatant commander for the United States, first in Latin America, and then, of course, in Europe, where I was Supreme Allied Commander.

These are incredibly detailed. They are the crown jewels of American security. They are deeply and closely held, Jessica, and you would never want to show them to someone who had no outside reason for knowing about them, no matter whether he or she had the security clearance.

And then finally, to this particular case, I think, I agree with president trump. Elon Musk is a businessman with deep, deep, serious business in China. You definitely would not want him on the inside of those war plans.

DEAN: And how might China be viewing all of this?

STAVRIDIS: Well, as Napoleon Bonaparte said once, never interrupt your enemy when there is confusion and they are making mistakes and I think that's how China and Russia both view all of the controversies, both inside the U.S. government, and I think, more importantly, the way this impacts our alliances.

Think about yourself as a leading intelligence officer in Japan, in Tokyo or in Seoul, in South Korea and The Philippines, and you're sharing the most sensitive intelligence your nation has with the United States.

Now you're seeing reports that a businessman is being let into The Pentagon, and that has got to concern you, and it dries up that incredible stream of intelligence. And by the way, the same thing occurs with our European partners.

They are increasingly concerned about how we are going to manage containing intelligence and clearances here in the United States.

DEAN: You bring up Russia. I do want to ask about that. U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, who recently returned from Moscow, said the meeting with Putin did get personal. I want to listen to how he described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: It got personal. The president -- President Putin, had commissioned a beautiful portrait of President Trump from the leading Russian artist and actually gave it to me and asked me to take it home to President Trump, and told me a story, Tucker, about how when the President was shot, he went to his local church and met with his priest and prayed for the President, not because he was the President of the United -- well, he could become the President of the United States, but because he had a friendship with him and he was praying for his friend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Now Witkoff was on Tucker Carlson's show. Of course, Tucker Carlson has been to Russia and done pieces there. What does all of this tell you when he is describing -- when Witkoff is describing this?

STAVRIDIS: Well, first and foremost, in diplomacy, in international relations, in security between nations, you've got to remember that great powers have national interests. They don't base decisions on individual friendships, and that is good advice for anyone who is negotiating.

Number two, lets recall Putin's background. He is a master manipulator. He is a former KGB intelligence officer. He knows how to press buttons. He knows how to pull switches.

Number three, if I were Vladimir Putin, I would be most happy about a Trump administration simply because during that period of time in the campaign, it was pretty clear that it would lead to less support for Ukraine.

[18:05:08]

So I think for all those reasons, you have to take what was reported and I am sure was accurately reported by Representative Envoy Witkoff, by the way, he is doing a great job just going back and forth and engaging and moving forward. But let's keep this in perspective.

Vladimir Putin is nobody I would trust, particularly as he is describing his own inner emotions.

DEAN: Yes, it is pretty striking to hear him talking -- Witkoff describing the scene, and then think about obviously, what we all saw play out in the Oval Office with President Zelenskyy of Ukraine. It is pretty striking to think about that.

STAVRIDIS: Yes, and let me give you one other anecdote. President Bush, as in W met with Vladimir Putin and was similarly taken in by Putin. You may vaguely recall this, but after a meeting with Putin, President Bush, who is a pretty canny Texan Republican, also said, I looked into his eyes. I saw his soul. We can work with Vladimir Putin in that Texas twang of his.

Later Senator John McCain, one of my idols, a national icon, was asked, well, you've met with Putin. You've looked into his eyes. What did you see?

John McCain said, I saw three letters "KGB." I think McCain got it about right. DEAN: I do want to ask you about something NBC News is reporting that the trump administration is considering giving up command of NATO. This is not a done deal, but it is a role that has been held by a U.S. four star general for 75 years, including yourself.

How significant is simply the consideration of this?

STAVRIDIS: It sends a terrible signal and that's again, the consideration even talking about it sends a terrible signal in four different ways. Number one, it sends a signal that you might view the United States might walk away from the alliance, really leading the alliance. The first Supreme Allied Commander was General Dwight David Eisenhower. That signal of a conversation about pulling out is deeply detrimental from a European allied perspective.

Number two, the signal it sends to Russia is that we are looking at just kind of leaning back from the alliance. That is high fives in Moscow. Number three, as you look around the rest of the world, it creates doubt about the unity of the NATO Alliance that echoes all the way to the Pacific.

And then finally, there are real military efficiencies, Jessica, in that post, being an American, you are in command of NATO forces, all the forces of the alliance, but also the 100,000 U.S. troops in Europe. There is a lot of synergies and efficiencies having both of those under a single individual, as I was privileged to hold it a decade ago.

It would be a huge mistake to pull out, and it really shouldn't be on the table as part of these discussions.

DEAN: Okay, and we will have to see how that evolves.

I do, before you go, want to ask you about your new book that is coming out. It is the third in your "Bookshelf" series. It links life lessons and leadership principles to books.

And listen, we are at a time right now in our history where we need leadership and it is in desperate need. What could today's leaders learn from this?

STAVRIDIS: The book is really a survey of 25 books that help you in different ways in leadership and life, everything from "The Godfather" by Mario Puzo to "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood. And it just makes the point, Jessica, that by looking into history, looking into biography, looking into fiction, we can draw lessons that can be applied to these battlefields today.

It is a book for everybody in their lives, but I am with you, I hope that some of our leaders can pick up "The Admiral's Bookshelf" and get some ideas, not from me, these are great books of history and fiction.

DEAN: Yes, there is a lot to learn in there. I do want to ask you before I let you go, there is some breaking news as we are seeing these large protests in the streets of Istanbul and across Turkey, thousands of people there rallying against the arrest of that city's mayor, who is also the top rival to the country's president.

What is your reaction to the protests that we are seeing tonight? How that is going? What does this potentially mean for President Erdogan?

STAVRIDIS: Yes, this is a big scale. The reporting I am seeing, Jessica says 300,000 protesters in the streets. Turkey has a population of about one fourth that of the United States.

This would be like 1.2 million protesters in the largest city in the country, Istanbul, not the capital, the capital is Ankara. So think New York City, 1.3 million people protesting.

[18:10:10]

They've already arrested 300 demonstrators, so think 1,200 people arrested, and this has been a long time coming. Erdogan has been on top of Turkish politics for two decades. I've met with him multiple times. He is someone who is going to respond harshly in these circumstances.

Buckle up in Turkey. I don't think this is going to simply go away.

DEAN: All right, Admiral James Stavridis, we covered a lot of ground. Thanks so much for being here with us. We appreciate it.

STAVRIDIS: Thanks, Jessica. Happy Saturday.

DEAN: You too.

A federal judge now vowing to get answers from the Trump administration about whether they defied his explicit orders concerning several deportation flights as the President tries to distance himself from the brewing legal fight. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:36]

DEAN: We are learning The Pentagon is sending another warship to the southern border. The guided missile destroyer USS Spruance left the naval base in San Diego today. CNN correspondent, Danny Freeman is joining us now with more.

Danny, what more are you learning about this move?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, this is really just brand new information from the administration that we are just getting into our newsroom, again in this immigration space.

According to a press release from U.S. Northern Command, the United States has deployed that second destroyer ship to the southern border to again help with President Trump's ongoing immigration crackdown. The U.S. Northern Command said that the USS Spruance, as you noted, will help with the mission to "restore territorial integrity." And the ship, as you noted, left from naval base San Diego and specifically will help in, and I am quoting now, "combating maritime related terrorism, weapons proliferation, transnational crime, piracy, environmental destruction and illegal seaborne immigration."

Now, of course, this comes after the announcement last week that a different naval destroyer was also heading to the southern border again to help in this immigration crackdown, and keep in mind, the U.S. right now has thousands of active duty military troops along the southern border at this point, mostly doing logistic and bureaucratic work.

So again, all of that new information we are just getting in over the past hour or so, Jessica. But meanwhile, I will note what I am doing here in Philadelphia, outside of the Wells Fargo Center behind me, you know it well. This is where President Trump is going to be in a little less than an hour or so, he is coming to see the NCAA men's wrestling championship that's going to take place behind me at around 7:00.

And this is of note, because most of the travel that President Trump has done outside of the White House and Mar-a-Lago really has been to high profile sporting events. You'll remember that he went to the Super Bowl back in February, then went to the Daytona 500, even driving The Beast a lap around the track before that race began.

So this is all just a continuation of him playing to one of his core constituencies, certainly from the election, young men. I will note because its Philadelphia, a very blue city. There are a decent amount of protesters that have also gathered that will be welcoming President Trump when he arrives here in a little bit, but there have also been plenty of people who have been cheering the president's name as they've been going in to this wrestling final behind me.

So a lot going on here in Philadelphia. But of course, the headline of the afternoon and early evening, Jessica, that that second naval destroyer is going to be heading to the southern border today -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right, Danny Freeman for us in Philadelphia. Thank you for that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: It doesn't sound like this, judge, who the DOJ is arguing with today about the deportation flights, he wants to know why the proclamation was signed in the dark, his words, and why people were rushed on to planes.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Because we want to get criminals out of our country, number one, and I don't know when it was signed because I didn't sign it, other people handled it. But Marco Rubio has done a great job and he wanted them out and we go along with that.

We want to get criminals out of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP) DEAN: President Trump downplaying his involvement in the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to deport Venezuelan migrants, telling reporters he did not sign the proclamation. But if you take a look, there it is. Its President Trump's distinctive signature. This is the latest in the legal battle between Trump and Federal Judge James Boasberg, who is demanding answers on why the Trump administration ignored his orders to pause those deportation flights.

Joining us now is the former acting director for ICE, John Sandweg.

John, great to have you here with us. I first just want to have you pick up with those comments from President Trump. What's your reaction to that?

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, US IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: I mean, obviously very unusual. This is an authority that only the President himself must issue. His signature was on it, and really interesting too, that this comes after all of this controversy he was raising about the use of an autopen during the Biden administration.

But this just injects further legal uncertainty into this invocation of the authority. Ultimately, I think the President's comments probably, you know, are going to not amount to too much in the legal fight, but it does just raise additional questions about whether this was a legitimate invocation of this very little, almost, you know, rarely used authority.

DEAN: Yes, and to that point, the White House now says that Trump was not talking about whether he signed the document last week, but rather referring to the original Alien Enemies Act that was signed back in 1798. Obviously, he would not be able to sign that, but did Trump's remarks at all, I hear you, but do you think that they complicate the administration's legal standing?

[18:20:08 ]

How do you think -- what kind of impact do you think that has?

SANDWEG: Yes, that was something we saw again and again in the first Trump administration, where the President actually said a lot of things that were really unhelpful to the positions the government was taking in court.

Obviously, to him saying, you know, kind of disowning this a little bit or stepping -- kind of insulating himself from the invocation here, does of course, raise questions about whether this was a proper invocation. And you know, certainly something I would expect that the ACLU and the litigation, right, going on right now in D.C. is going to be using against him. Right? It just raises further questions about this.

Of course, there are so many other questions about this. You know, this is an authority that is supposed to be used during a foreign invasion or a declared war. There is no indication here that Venezuelans that are being targeted were sent by the government, and then there are all of these other questions about the manner in which this was done that the judge was raising on Friday, including that this was signed, no public announcement, unlike every other executive order we've seen, and that was done obviously explicitly so that they could try to get these flights up and in the air before anybody could rush to court and get an injunction against them.

DEAN: And when asked a hypothetical question about whether he would send another deportation flight to El Salvador amid all of this litigation, the President said that would be up to Secretary of State Marco Rubio. He says he is in charge here. What -- is that right? And what does that say to you?

SANDWEG: Well, I mean, I think what is interesting about this is it is surprising to me that President Trump is kind of distancing himself from this. I don't know if he is getting worried about this episode politically or the situation in the fight with the judge. Obviously, he has been very aggressive in criticizing the judge to the point where Justice Roberts stepped in.

So I don't know what his motivations are here, but I will say that the good thing and credit to the administration is that they have not done another flight while this fight is going on. I think there has been a lot of fear that we are going to get -- we are diving head first into a constitutional crisis, and while the administration has been taking the legal position that the courts have no authority here because this is the President's invocation of his war powers, typically, yes, he gets great deference there, but they are taking the position that that means it is completely unreviewable.

And then that the decision as to who meets the criteria, who is an actual Tren de Aragua gang member like that's also unreviewable.

Those are extreme positions, to be sure. But at the moment, they are honoring the injunction issued by the court and I think that obviously keeps us from having to -- you know, keeps this from becoming a full- fledged constitutional crisis.

DEAN: And so there is all of this. There is the legal battle that is playing out that you just kind of walked everyone through there, there.

I am also just curious, your thoughts as a former acting director of ICE just about how this was handled and being able to invoke this Act and not have, you know, needing to -- they said, needing to use this to get these people out of the country. Do you think that that's right. You have to use this Act in order to do it?

SANDWEG: Jessica, the biggest challenge he faces in a mass deportation writ large is the backlogs in the immigration courts. It is an inconvenience for ICE to have to go to the immigration courts, but ICE has proven for decades that we can get the worst of the worst off the streets, give people their day in court, still get them out of the country safely. We don't need to bypass due process.

I would also say this, the men and women at ICE really are hardworking people who are doing a dangerous job trying to keep this country safe, but they do make mistakes rarely, but it happens. It happened when I was the acting director, it happened during my years at DHS. Sometimes mistakes are made. That's what the immigration courts do, they provide that extra layer of protection.

So I don't think that we need to sit here and say this is a false choice between saying, are we going to allow gang members on our streets, or are we going to give them a hearing? We can do both. We can keep gang members off our streets, get them out of our country, keep our country safe, but also do so in a manner that's consistent with our values as a nation and that provides it just that little extra layer of protection for those rare cases where we make a mistake and someone might not be a gang member or might have a valid claim to remain in the United States.

DEAN: Lawyers for some of the migrants say that the government repeatedly pointed to tattoos and hand gestures as evidence that they are linked to those gangs. Do you think that is enough.?

SANDWEG: Gang membership -- proving gang membership is really tough. It is one of the hardest things ICE does. Fortunately, it is not something that comes up too often. Typically, when we are deporting someone, you know, it is black and white questions, Jessica? Do they have a criminal conviction that takes away their visa? Do they have paperwork to begin with?

Oftentimes, the gang membership issue is ancillary. It comes up in questions about whether someone is entitled to a bond hearing. It could come up in matters involving exercise of discretion saying, judge, don't give this person discretion because they are a gang member.

But it is very difficult. This is these -- you know, you are looking at tattoos, you're looking at gang gestures, signs, potentially, you're looking at associations. It has always been a controversial topic. I think that's what scares a lot of the people, the advocacy groups who are looking at this saying of all the things ICE does, the hardest thing they do is asserting -- proving someone is a gang member. The evidence is really squishy.

It is just, again, very difficult to prove. So now when you're saying -- we are making these determinations that you're not entitled to any process, and not only that, Jessica, of course I think one thing were not -- that is not getting as much attention, if you ask me, is the fact that we sent these people to El Salvador, where we had an agreement in place, that they would be incarcerated in this, you know, incredibly tough supermax kind of facility. Right?

So it is almost like, are we bypassing their Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights? So I think when you add all of that together, it really is a situation where it just doesn't make sense to me why we would go this route when we have this proven method of going through the immigration courts that is equally effective and doesn't compromise our public safety in any way.

DEAN: All right, John Sandweg, thank you for your time. We really appreciate it. SANDWEG: My pleasure.

DEAN: Still to come, John King returns to battleground, Wisconsin, where Democrats are once again worried about Black voter turnout in a consequential race just days away.

We will take you there. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:32]

DEAN: The first notable election of President Trump's second term is set to take place in less than two weeks. On April 1st, Wisconsin voters will pick a new state Supreme Court justice. And it's a pretty big early test for a swing state that Trump won in November. Trump allies are trying to show they have momentum and that voters are still with the President and his agenda. Democrats hope to show that they're learning from their losses. CNN's John King traveled back to Wisconsin this week for the latest edition of his All Over the Map series.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Back at it in battleground Wisconsin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALIHYA JOHNSON, CANVASSER, BLACK LEADERS ORGANIZING FOR COMMUNITIES: I was wondering if I could talk to you for a second?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): Door-to-door, Milwaukee's north side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: I'm out knocking on doors about the upcoming election happening April 1st. Were you interested in voting?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): Losing in November still stings, makes Alihya Johnson's job even harder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: A lot of people saying, you know, they're not going to vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): This is old school canvassing by black leaders organizing for communities in Milwaukee neighborhoods that gave Donald Trump more votes in 2024 than in 2020. Control of the Wisconsin State Supreme Court is the current battle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA LANG, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BLACK LEADERS ORGANIZING FOR COMMUNITIES: And that can decide things like fair maps, abortion, voting rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): On paper, this election is Susan Crawford versus Brad Schimel. But BLOC CEO Angela Lang knows it's also a big gut check. Can Democrats and allies like BLOC energized voters who stayed home in November? Can they reconnect with once loyal Democrats who decided to give Trump and Republicans a chance?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LANG: People didn't feel that Democrats were addressing the needs and the issues of the average voter. And I think people wanted to try something different. And so I think this will be like the first true local test to see if there are lessons learned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): Local Democrats believe more organizing offices in Black and Latino neighborhoods is part of the long-term fix. In the short term though --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell Elon Musk, take your money and get out of our state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): -- they hope a new villain helps improve turnout.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH KLEMONS, WISCONSIN VOTER: Elon Musk is pouring so much money into this race. And Wisconsin has a real chance on April 1st to show that money cannot buy elections. The world's richest men cannot pick and choose who should serve in our government at every level, from state courts all the way up through governor, senator and president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): Josh Klemons is a musician, a Democratic campaign consultant and an avid TikToker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KLEMONS: We got this.

You all, we got less than two weeks until Election Day. Everything is on the line.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING (voice over): Klemons says Democrats are losing close elections because they are losing the internet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KLEMONS: Republicans have built a massive media infrastructure that allows them to get out their message in a way that Democrats cannot compete with. It doesn't matter if our messages are better or not, because they're not getting heard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): He wants progressives to invest in more and better social media ...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KLEMONS: They have to vote on April 1st.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): ... more podcasts, but he also says more fight from party leaders would help motivate exhausted and exasperated voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KLEMONS: You know, Senate Democrats cave, and absolutely people are frustrated. It's very hard to keep asking people to keep giving their everything when they don't see real progress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): Charley and Emma shape Kate Duffy's approach to social media. Moms like her are busy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATE DUFFY, WISCONSIN VOTER: I try to make content that can be digested like between bath time and bedtime. So a quick video that somebody can watch in two or three minutes is going to do really well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): Duffy started "Motherhood for Good" three years ago and is now rethinking everything because of Trump's swing state sweep.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUFFY: There were Harris yard signs everywhere around here. I was pretty surprised, but I think obviously what we saw was he spoke to people in a way that just connected more with them, and it worked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): One lesson from Trump's inroads in the suburbs is to talk more about the economy and the cost of living. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUFFY: So many women make all the household, purchasing decisions and are in charge of the budget, and that is certainly somewhere where we can do better. We can't discount somebody's actual struggle, their feeling to put food on the table for their kids. That is a daily trauma that they're dealing with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): What Duffy posts is changing, also how she posts. Trump and his allies, she says, proved wrong what most left-leaning consultants preach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUFFY: Democrats picked up 14 new seats in November.

I think my biggest takeaway is to listen to my gut more. There was times where I felt like, no, we can do a longer video. We can explain things more. We can add more nuance. People are craving that, but kept hearing, well, these are the messages. It needs to be quick and simple and hit this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): The barbershop was a daily town hall long before new media and social media. Eric Jones is here once a week. He told us months before the November election that Trump was running stronger among black men.

[18:35:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING (on camera): Are you getting things from the Democrats that you say, okay, this is smarter than they were last year?

ERIC JONES, WISCONSIN VOTER: No.

KING: Do you see anything out there?

JONES: No, no, I don't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): To be fair, Jones says it's only been a few months, but with the court election days away, he worries, again, about all that Musk money.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Any political campaign is essentially an information war. And any war needs a budget, and the guy with the biggest budget tends to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): Worries again about black turnout.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING (on camera): Evenly balanced court ...

JONES: Yes.

KING: ... whether it's abortion rights or drawn maps ...

JONES: Mm-hmm.

KING: ... voting rights, huge issues.

JONES: Mm-hmm.

KING: Are people -- do people care?

JONES: No, I don't think so. Now, the reason I say this is because I've asked a good amount of people about it. It's bad when you don't know the candidates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): An early swing state test --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: March 29th ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll think about it today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you can.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): ... of whether Democrats ...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. Thank you so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING (voice over): ... can get back on a winning path.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

DEAN: John King, thank you.

Still to come, Secretary of State Marco Rubio's fiery response to CNN's new reporting about the competition he's facing, vying for his role as America's top diplomat. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:47]

DEAN: Secretary of State Marco Rubio was the first member of the Trump cabinet to be confirmed and he did so with overwhelming bipartisan support. But there has been speculation over just how happy the former senator is with his new job, with sources claiming Rubio may be feeling overshadowed by Trump envoy Steve Witkoff.

A CNN report this week claimed, quote, "Rubio has competition for the role of America's top diplomat." Both Trump and Rubio, though, pushed back against that assertion with Rubio accusing CNN of using thinly sourced stories to generate clicks and try to make trouble. CNN's Alex Marquardt has more.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Jessica, there's no doubt that Secretary of State Marco Rubio is playing a significant role on the world stage as the country's top diplomat, but this is an unorthodox administration and in a pretty significant way, Rubio is having to share his diplomatic turf with one of Trump's closest friends, billionaire Steve Witkoff, who in this administration is one of Trump's favorites.

Now, Steve Witkoff is technically the special envoy for the Middle East, but in reality, his role is much bigger. He now has the Russia portfolio. He has met with President Vladimir Putin twice in Moscow. Witkoff is now one of the key mediators alongside Rubio in these ongoing talks between Russia and Ukraine.

Now, my colleagues, Jamie Gangel, Jeremy Herb, Jeff Zeleny, Jennifer Hansler and myself, we spoke to a variety of sources in the Rubio orbit at the State Department, on the international stage, and they paint a picture of Rubio in an evolving role, having to grapple with the possibility of Witkoff overshadowing the Secretary of State.

One source told CNN, Witkoff, quote, "is flying all over the world playing Secretary of State." He has one thing that no one else has. He has Trump's 100 percent confidence. A senator who is still in touch with Rubio told us, I think he's frustrated. A third person said, it's not what Rubio expected. Witkoff came out of the blue and, quote, "Trump loves him."

Now, Rubio responded to our story rather angrily, saying that Witkoff is one of the people I work with the closest on our team. These people, meaning CNN, are pathetic.

Other spokespeople within the Trump administration, they pushed back on this as well, saying that Rubio and Witkoff work together well, that they're not rivals, that, in fact, they complement each other quite well.

When I was recently at the G7 summit in Canada with Rubio, I spoke with a number of international officials who all spoke glowingly of Rubio, praising him in this difficult role between an erratic Trump and a world that is increasingly angry at the American president. One senior European official told me that Rubio is a very valuable interlocutor, that they don't feel the hostility from Rubio that they do from Donald Trump. Another foreign official also praised him as a truly experienced diplomatic hand.

Jessica, Rubio wasn't always in the Trump inner circle. And, in fact, they had a fairly acrimonious relationship when the two men ran for president and were on the campaign trail, Trump, of course, calling Rubio Lil Marco. But for now, Rubio is clearly a loyal lieutenant who is really contending and evolving with the uniqueness of this Trump administration. Jessica?

DEAN: All right. Alex Marquardt, thank you for that.

A new episode of "United States of Scandal with Jake Tapper" focuses on the Supreme Court nomination of Clarence Thomas in 1991. Now, that nomination sparked a national controversy when one of his former employees, Anita Hill, accused him of sexual harassment. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here she was, a lone, young, black woman coming up against the entire Senate establishment, not afraid to speak in great detail about embarrassing details having to do with sex.

ANITA HILL, CLARENCE THOMAS FORMER EMPLOYEE: One of the oddest episodes I remember was an occasion in which Thomas was drinking a Coke in his office, looked at the can, and asked, who has put pubic hair on my Coke?

[18:44:59]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anita Hill, she has a story that is diametrically opposed to the story that everyone's telling about Clarence Thomas. So, for Thomas' supporters on the committee, the project is to tear apart Anita Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: A new episode of "United States of Scandal" airs tomorrow at 9 PM Eastern Pacific right here on CNN.

But still to come here tonight, a CNN investigation finds the Veterans Department denied crucial benefits to hundreds of families of veterans who died by suicide. We'll have more details on that up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:50:09]

DEAN: A CNN investigation has found hundreds of families of veterans who died by suicide after they were discharged from active duty have been denied crucial benefits. Under strict V.A. rules, the families must submit medical documentation showing the death of their loved one stemmed from their time in the military. But sometimes that can be impossible. CNN's Kyung Lah spoke with several surviving spouses.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMILY EVANS, SURVIVING SPOUSE: I feel stuck. We're stuck and the V.A. is keeping us there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Emily Evans can't move forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (on camera): And your kids?

E. EVANS: Stuck. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes it feel like he's almost still here but just in a different way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): Four children and their mother suspended in time, trapped in loss and bureaucratic battles with the very agency dedicated to care for the soldier's family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love Daddy so much that if I don't have his baby blanket, I'll get nightmares.

SGT. MICHAEL EVANS, DECEASED ARMY VETERAN: Morning, Love, got me some coffee?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): Her father was Army Sergeant Michael Evans, an infantryman who deployed to Iraq twice, surviving more than two years of some of the war's worst combat, suffering traumatic brain injury from multiple IEDs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

E. EVANS: It's not bad.

M. EVANS: It's not bad?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): Once home, a full life appeared to resume, but the war never left him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) E. EVANS: He came in the house one day, he stood -- he stood right here. He just wanted to be held. And it was like his demons were standing right here in the room and I was trying to pull him back. And that was probably three days before he just snapped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): Two years ago, after a month's-long depressive crisis that strained their marriage and family, Michael Evans died by suicide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (on camera): After Michael passed, did you reach out to the V.A.? Did you file a benefits claim?

E. EVANS: They eventually sent a letter and they decided that Michael's PTSD was not significant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): The V.A. denied her request for death benefits, a monthly payment to family members after a service-related death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

E. EVANS: Positive for PTSD, positive for depression.

LAH (on camera): These are the VA's ...

E. EVANS: These are the VA's ...

LAH: ... own tests, own doctors?

E. EVANS: Own documents. It's all PTSD. It's all his service. It's all from combat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): A CNN Investigation found the V.A. denied crucial benefits to hundreds of families of veterans who died by suicide. We counted nearly 500 cases, but that's likely just a fraction of the total number.

The V.A. says it doesn't track how many suicide-related claims it processes. So exactly how many families have been denied remains unknown. And many veterans are reluctant to seek help.

It's up to survivors to prove their loved ones suffered from PTSD.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA GOULDING, SURVIVING SPOUSE: I would not wish these last nine years on my worst day.

This is everything that I had given to the V.A. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): Linda Goulding is a widow who was denied and appealed. Goulding submitted to the V.A. doctor's reports and a letter from her husband.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOULDING: And it started out that it had started on this day and it will end on this day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): That day marked 40 years that Goulding's husband, James, had left Vietnam.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want? Do you want a --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): Even as a loving grandfather, Goulding carried the weight of his Marine Corps battalion known as "The Walking Dead." It suffered one of the highest casualty rates of the war.

On that 40-year anniversary, he threatened to end his own life. His wife called police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOULDING: They banged on the door. They called out his name. And when they went in, they heard a shot and then a thud.

LAH (on camera): When you went to the V.A., what did the V.A. say?

GOULDING: I had to prove that he had PTSD.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): Proving it took her nine years.

Our investigation found families like the Gouldings spent on average five-and-a-half years trying to win benefits. Many don't ever get them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOULDING: I want the V.A. to help the other people with more empathy, so other women would not have to do this ever - ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:55:06] LAH (voice over): Emily Evans is in the middle of her battle with the V.A., haunted, she says, by promises not honored.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (on camera): What would you like to tell the V.A.?

E. EVANS: I would like to see V.A. take responsibility for this. I would like to see them step up.

My husband did not die in the war, but his mind did and he deserves better. He deserved better, and he's not the only one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (on camera): The V.A. declined CNN's request for an on-camera interview. Instead, we got this statement: "V.A. is under new management," a spokesperson says, nodding at the change in administration. And said, "The V.A. is working across the department to improve survivor programs so families can have the most supportive, convenient and seamless experience possible in their time of grief."

Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Kyung Lah, thanks so much for that. If you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts or mental health matters, call or text the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)