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CNN International: Trump Defends Signal Chat Team; Ukraine and Russia Black Sea Deal; U.S. Consumer Confidence Falls; More Than 1,400 Protesters Detained In Turkey; Violence Against Journalists; Teams Battle To Qualify For 2025 FIFA World Cup. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired March 25, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

And just ahead this hour, Donald Trump defends his team's unsecured group chat on Signal saying, quote, "It's just something that can happen." The White House says Russia and Ukraine have agreed to stop using force in the Black Sea. And more than 1,400 people have been detained in Turkey amid protests over the arrest of President Erdogan's main political rival.

Apologize and say it'll never happen again. Top Republican Senator Kevin Cramer signaling his frustration over the group chat incident, which dominated today's heated Senate Intelligence Committee hearing. The editor-in-chief of The Atlantic was accidentally added to a chat group with Vice President J. D. Vance, the defense secretary and others, including the nation's senior most intelligence official on the messaging app Signal. Senate Democrats argued that U.S. troops and national security were put at risk. They called for the resignation of the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth. Also under fire, the newly minted CIA director John Ratcliffe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): This sloppiness, this incompetence, this disrespect for our intelligence agencies and the personnel who work for them is entirely unacceptable. It's an embarrassment. You need to do better. You need to do better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, the White House struck a defiant tone saying the material in the chat room somehow was not classified. President Donald Trump defended the national security adviser, Mike Waltz, pointing to the success of the operation as it unfolded against the Houthis. He also attacked, as he is one to do, the journalist and the publication.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Nothing happened. The attack was totally successful. It was, I guess, from what I understand, took place during, and it wasn't classified information. So, this was not classified. Now, it's classified information, it's probably a little bit different, but I always say you get -- you have to learn from every experience. I think it was very unfair the way they attacked Michael. He's a good person. The person that was on just happens to be a sleazebag. So, maybe that's just coincidence. I don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Of course, Donald Trump called to lock up Hillary Clinton for her handling of classified material. Our Chief National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt joins me.

I mean, the administration -- first of all, let's set aside the attacking the journalist piece there, because the White House confirmed the details of this of this prior. But on the idea that this wasn't classified, you have, according to Jeffrey Goldberg, target lists, timing, including individuals targeted. Are there any circumstances based on your experience, sources where that is not classified information?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Jim, those of us who cover national security know that that is among the most closely guarded information. And Goldberg laid out, not in specifics, because he thought it was classified, what it was that the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, sent to this large group of 18 people two hours before that strike on the Houthis on Saturday, March 15th.

He talked about targets, weapons that the U.S. would be deploying, and attack sequencing. So, the timing of how this was going to unfold. As you noted also, the names of people that they would be going after. And what we heard today from the CIA director, John Ratcliffe, and the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, was in no uncertain terms did they believe that what was in this chat was classified? They said that with absolute certainty.

Later on in the -- in this hearing that was ostensibly to talk about global threats around the world, but was really dominated by this subject, they started to defer more to the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, saying essentially, you have to ask him.

[18:05:00]

And the path that it looks like we're going down now is whether or not Pete Hegseth determined if this was classified or not. He has what is called the original classification authority. So, he can say something is classified or not. So, we may get to the point where he says, I have determined that this is not classified, therefore, I'm OK to share it. That beget -- then that begets the question of, well, then why don't you just release it now? And that is something that Mark Warner and other Democrats put to these guys, why can't we see the full transcript of this if it's not possible?

SCIUTTO: It's also transparently convenient because of course it's evocative of Donald Trump when he was found with many classified materials in his basement in Mar-a-Lago said, oh, yes, I declassified all that stuff. I mean, is that an out that they're looking for here or is that a substantive, well, this information was perfectly fine for the public sphere?

MARQUARDT: You're absolutely right that we've seen this movie before. We've heard President Trump saying, well, if I think it's declassified, that in fact is declassified. So, that does appear to be that the argument that they are going to make.

What was really interesting was to watch this evolution of the argument during the course of the hearing where they really said -- they really stuck to their guns saying there was no -- nothing in here that was classified. But also, kind of putting the onus on Pete Hegseth with the help, I should say, of the top Republican Tom Cotton on the committee to essentially say, you've got to go ask the Defense Department. He was not there today.

And so, the -- then -- the question then becomes, is there going to be an investigation to actually figure out whether this was classified or not? And of course, Republicans control not just the White House, but both houses of Congress.

SCIUTTO: Is it, just briefly, a possibility that Hegseth becomes the fall guy here based on that line of questioning?

MARQUARDT: It certainly could. There's no sense right now that there's any kind of disappointment with Pete Hegseth. President Trump is really sticking by his guys. And you know, it's a big -- it is a good question whether heads are going to roll. But right now, it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

SCIUTTO: And of course, attacking the journalist who had the story right?

MARQUARDT: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: At least according to the White House. Alex Marquardt, thanks so much.

MARQUARDT: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris Coons. He sits on the Foreign Relation Committee. He is calling for an oversight hearing into the use of this system and the discussion of war plan. Senator, thanks so much for taking the time this evening.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Thank you. Great to be on with you again, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, first I want to ask you a very basic question. When you have dealt with classified information or information about war operations, military operations, that includes information about timing, targets, et cetera, is that ever not classified information?

COONS: No. I routinely access highly classified information at what's called a SCIF, which is a secure facility. Every senator and every cabinet official, everyone who was on that Signal chat has regular access both to computer systems and phone systems and to rooms that are specifically designed for the handling of highly classified information.

So, look, let's be blunt, the fact that these folks we're using a commercially available unsecure system to communicate about an imminent attack on another country, and then allegedly, Secretary Hegseth conveyed concrete and specific war plans about what the targets were, what munitions were being used, what individuals were being targeted, this is a shocking breach of the most basic requirements of handling classified information. There's not a single career military officer whose career could survive a moment like this.

And frankly, Jim, I've been to surprise parties that were better at keeping the surprise and keeping secrets than this event.

SCIUTTO: Listen, I had a security clearance when I served in government, and I know the restrictions were, go to the SCIF to read that kind of information. Certainly, don't play around on it on your phone.

COONS: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: Were U.S. service members put at risk as a result of this given that it had timing, location, target assets? If the Houthis presumably got such information in advance, could they not have put U.S. forces in danger?

COONS: Yes, they could. And that's why I think we need an oversight hearing so that we know what exactly was shared. Claims are being made now by President Trump, Secretary Hegseth, and others that there wasn't classified information shared. Well, I respect that the editor of The Atlantic was very careful in what he didn't publish. Now, that they're alleging none of it was classified, then why can't they share? Why can't this administration or Secretary Hegseth share a transcript of everything that was shared on this Signal channel?

My strong hunch is because it does include highly classified and sensitive information. This would be the point of an oversight hearing, to understand how it happened, whether servicemen were put at -- service members were put at risk, and to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Frankly, on some level, our country got lucky that the person who was inadvertently included in this Signal chat was someone who was a well- intentioned journalist, not a hostile foreign agent.

[18:10:00]

And recently, the Pentagon sent around a warning about the lack of security of Signal as a way to communicate for folks who are in leadership in the military.

SCIUTTO: You're calling for an oversight hearing. Sad fact is --

COONS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- from your perspective, Democrats do not have the majority of the Senate or in the House. As you know, Democrats have come under criticism for speaking criticism of this administration's moves, but not doing anything about it. And I wonder what will Democrats do now to get an outcome? Can you do something now to get an outcome?

COONS: So, there's limits to what we can do. Yes, we can send a letter to the inspectors general. We can demand a hearing. We can hold up votes on the floor. But without Republicans stepping forward and taking some responsibility for their role as leaders on the relevant committees, on the Armed Services Committee, the Intelligence Committee, the Appropriation Subcommittee for Defense, there's real limits to what we can do to hold accountable and administration, a Republican administration, if they choose to look the other way.

SCIUTTO: I want to ask you, given your role on the Foreign Relations Committee on Ukraine. Over the weekend, the president's Russian envoy, Steve Witkoff, not unlike the president himself, we should say, was parroting Russian talking points full bore on a whole host of issues around the Ukraine war, including the cause of the war, staged elections in Russian occupied territory, et cetera.

From your perspective, is this administration now in effect supporting Russia's, not just view of this war, but interests as it pursues a peace agreement to end it?

COONS: Well, that was the alarming implication of some of the things that he said over the weekend. Literally saying, well, there's two sides to every conflict. In this particular conflict, more sharply than any other in my lifetime, I don't think that's the case at all. Putin's the aggressor. Russia invaded. They literally kidnapped thousands of Ukrainian children. They committed war crimes. They raped and massacred innocent civilians, and they continue to attack energy infrastructure and towns and villages all over Ukraine. Ukraine is the defender. Russia is the aggressor.

And frankly, while the special envoy President Trump has appointed for this, seems to be trying hard to find a neutral ground in order to better negotiate to not name Putin as the aggressor and to suggest there's two sides to this conflict, I think goes too far, loses credibility for us with our vital European allies and partners who have borne the majority of the burden of arming and supporting Ukraine and welcoming millions of Ukrainian refugees into their countries.

So, I think the way you achieve peace through strength is by being strong, by calling out who is actually the aggressor, by threatening to go harder in support of Ukraine, rather than trying to reach some false equivalency and hand the cards that Zelenskyy could be playing to Putin.

When President Trump said in that White House confrontation, you don't have the cards, to President Zelenskyy, that's because he'd already handed the key cards in this negotiation away to Vladimir Putin.

SCIUTTO: And then of course, proceeded to take the intelligence sharing cards away from Ukraine for a period of time as well. Senator Chris Coons, we do appreciate you joining us.

COONS: Thank you. SCIUTTO: Well, the White House says that Ukraine and Russia have now agreed on a deal to stop using military force in the Black Sea, a ceasefire there. This after lengthy and separate meetings with U.S. officials in Saudi Arabia. A deal in principle, as the Kremlin says, it comes with demands, including sanctions relief on Russian banks and Russian exports. Those conditions prompted the Ukrainian president, Vladimir Zelenskyy, to say, quote, "Russians are trying to deceive mediators and the world."

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is joining me now live from my Moscow. Fred, President Trump says the U.S. is now reviewing those Kremlin conditions. From your perspective, where you're seated there in Moscow now, does it look like this deal on the Black Sea's going to get done?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it certainly could take a while. And I was actually in touch earlier today, Jim, with the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, and he sort of laid out what the Russian thinking on all of this is.

First of all, there were separate meetings, as you pointed out, in Riyadh. There were also separate communiques as well. There was one from the Ukrainians, one from the Russians, and actually two from the U.S. side for all the meetings that they held there. So, they couldn't agree on a common communique on all of this, but it does seem as though all three of these sides have signed on to that initiative for the Black Sea.

[18:15:00]

However, the Russians are saying that it's not going to go into effect until their agricultural banks is taken off the sanction list. And other industries as well are also taken off the sanction list so that they can more easily export not just their commodities, but also things like fertilizer as well.

And I was in touch with the Kremlin spokesman. He said, look, the reason why the Russians are doing this is because, as you know, there was already once a Black Sea Grain Deal that was in place from summer '22 until summer '23. And the Russians say that in that deal, they think that they got the shorter end of the stick. They said, look, the Ukrainians were able to export their grains through the Black Sea, but the Russians remained under all of those sanctions making it more difficult for them to export their own agricultural goods.

And so, the Russians are now saying they want to see that sanctions relief before they are going to have this deal come in place. And it's actually quite interesting to see the messaging here tonight coming not just out of Moscow, but out of Kyiv as well, because the Ukrainians are saying, as far as they're concerned, that deal is in place as the Americans announced it in their communique.

So, there does seem to be a little dissonance there from all sides, but as of right now, the Russians are saying that this is not in place yet. Jim.

SCIUTTO: Fred Pleitgen, thanks so much from Moscow. Yaroslav Trofimov is chief foreign affairs correspondent for the Wall Street Journal. He is also the author of a new book, a novel, "No Country for Love." This is about a young woman in Ukraine during the lead up to World War II with lots of messages about the current war still underway there, and he joins me now. Yaroslav, thanks so much for joining.

YAROSLAV TROFIMOV, AUTHOR, "NO COUNTRY FOR LOVE" AND CHIEF FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Great to be on the show.

SCIUTTO: So, first, let's begin with this Black Sea deal. Does Ukraine gain much from this, because as you well know, it seems the biggest advantage here would be for Russia after Ukraine successfully expelled Russia's Black Sea Fleet from the Black Sea due to its quite successful sea drone operations here? Who has the bigger advantage from this ceasefire if it holds?

TROFIMOV: Well, I mean, looking at the deal right now as presented at least by Russia and the U.S., is that Russia gets relief from sanctions, major relief for its banking sector, for its shipping sector. And Ukraine gets at best the continuation of the status quo.

Because let's look at what's actually happening in the Black Sea. When this grain deal -- the initial grain deal was signed in 2022, Russia's Black Sea fleet was able to patrol not far from Ukrainian shores and interdict Ukrainian civilian shipping. Since then, that Black Sea fleet has been decimated by Ukrainian missile strikes and Ukrainian naval drones, and doesn't venture anymore anywhere near Ukraine. They're too afraid because they lost so many ships.

And so, the Ukrainian port of Odessa is functioning at record capacity now for the last two years. So, they don't really need Russian permission for continuation of the maritime trade.

SCIUTTO: That sounds to me like Russia gets more out of this than Ukraine?

TROFIMOV: Well, absolutely. I mean, let's look at it in a broader perspective. Ukrainian last, you know, year and a half has really developed the capacity to strike Russia where it hurts. That is its oil and gas, its energy sector, both in terms of shipping facilities, pipelines, refineries. And so, the ceasefires being negotiated now take away this very important instrument that Ukraine has to kind of even out the playing field and deprive Russia with its crucial source of revenue. And the Trump administration seems to be going along with it.

SCIUTTO: Given that, and given also the statements from President Trump himself, but also more recently his Russia envoy, Steve Witkoff, over the weekend in which he parroted Kremlin talking points and Kremlin positions on the cause of the war, on these referenda held under duress in annexed parts or occupied parts of Ukraine. At this point, is the U.S. position on this war closer to Russia's than that of Ukraine and America's European allies?

TROFIMOV: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's very hard to distinguish between what the president's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, has been saying and what President Putin himself has been saying. You know, and the U.S. government position now is not even to accept that Russia started this war. Russia and the U.S. were together alongside North Korea and Belarus and against the majority of the world's nations at the United Nations for resolution that basically, you know, absolves Russia of its responsibility for this war that has lasted three years and change that has killed hundreds of thousands of people.

[18:20:00]

And if you look at the origins of this war, they're very clear. It's because President Putin doesn't think that Ukraine has the right to be an independent country that can chart its own future and it remains his policy. And now, after failing to subjugate Ukraine in the battlefield in three years, he's hoping to get to that result through concessions of (INAUDIBLE) administration.

SCIUTTO: You wrote a piece recently called "What is the End Game for Ukraine?" And you noted that a ceasefire deal could lead to another more successful Russian invasion. This is the concern in Europe, that, in effect, if it's a deal on Russia's terms, that it gets a chance to regroup, rebuild its forces and then the opportunity to break a ceasefire and attempt to subjugate Ukraine again. I wonder, are European officials that you speak with willing to reject a deal and back Ukraine if it rejects a deal because they see it as unsafe, not just for Ukraine, but for themselves?

TROFIMOV: I mean that really depends on how the final deal, if we ever get there, will look like. But obviously, you know, if you look at why the Ukrainians are fighting today, and you know, I'm describing that in my book, you know, they're fighting because they remember all the things that happened on the Soviet, in Russian rule in their history when, you know, millions were killed in artificial famine. And then, the Ukrainian cultural elites were executed in 1930s and wiped out. And so, they know what Russia can do.

And so, if you look at the proposals coming out from Russia, the key demand is to basically dismantle the Ukrainian military and to remove Ukraine's ability to defend itself effectively in the future. And that is a condition that the Europeans will definitely not accept because they know that some of them could be next if Ukraine's military disappears as a shield of Europe that it is now.

And fortunately, for the Europeans and the Ukrainians, a lot of the parts of this deal, like lifting sanctions on Russia and Russian institutions, is impossible without the European buy-in. Even in this current deal about the Black Sea, you know, the Russian key demand, the precondition, is to lift the sanctions on the Russian agricultural bank. But it's being disconnected from the SWIFT system of international payments and reconnecting to it is impossible with other Europeans agreeing to it. It's not just something that the Trump administration can do.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, to your book you, you said this, of course, in the first half of the 20th century, in part, as you referenced there, to talk about the history behind how Ukraine views Russia. Can you explain how that contradicts Putin's argument that Ukraine doesn't exist independent of Russia? That it's always been part of Russia?

TROFIMOV: Right. I mean, if you remember how this war started, it started with Putin writing an essay, a publishing historical essay, claiming that the Ukrainians and the Russians are the same people, and the Ukrainians have no right to an independent path of their own.

Obviously, every Ukrainian is descended from the survivors of this mid grandeur of history, the artificial famine that decimated the countryside in 1930s on studies orders. Then the execution of Ukrainian writers, poets, you know, artists, then the war and the insurgency. And so, this historical trauma is really what motivates Ukrainians to fight today, because, you know, the consensus in the country is that no matter how bloody the war is, no matter how many people have died so far, the alternative of surrender will bring more death and more destruction, because that is what history teaches Ukrainians. So, there's a spirit of never again.

And the Russians, you know, you used to (ph) judged by the actions. Whenever Russian troops occupy a Ukrainian town or village, the first thing they do is to destroy the monuments to this artificial famine that Moscow had created and to erase this historical memory.

SCIUTTO: There's a monument to that famine here in Washington, D.C., not far from our offices here. Yaroslav Trofimov, author of "No Country for Love," chief foreign affairs correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, thanks so much for joining.

TROFIMOV: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, from inflation fears to layoff concerns and cuts, vast ones to U.S. government services, Americans have not felt so uncertain about their economic future in years. We're going to discuss the state of the U.S. economy and crucially the U.S. consumer coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. A second day of gains for tech stocks on Wall Street. The NASDAQ rose almost a half a percent. The S&P also up. The Dow Jones, just a tiny little bit up. All this after Monday's gains fueled by President Trump's announcement he may give countries breaks on reciprocal tariffs. Tesla rallied more than 3 percent building on Monday's 12 percent rally. All this despite new numbers showing the Tesla's sales in Europe fell more than 40 percent so far this year compared to 2024.

A new survey here in the U.S. shows that American consumers have not felt so downbeat about their economic future in years. The latest numbers show consumer confidence falling for a fourth straight months as America's -- steady -- process the steady drumbeat of tariff threats, cuts to government spending, and other Trump administration policies. Trump said this about those numbers today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Well, I know this, that for the first time in like 50 years, right track, wrong track, we were on the right track. And I think people see that. And if you look at prices, prices are way down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Are they? The Confidence Board survey shows more Americans are expecting prices to rise this year, and the number of Americans now fearing a recession is at a nine-month high. Yelena Shulyatyeva is the senior U.S. economist at the Conference Board, which conducts the monthly survey. She joins me now.

I wonder, when you look at these numbers here, the U.S. economy is so dependent on the American consumer spending. What do these numbers show about the risk of recession in the U.S.?

YELENA SHULYATYEVA, SENIOR U.S. ECONOMIST, THE CONFERENCE BOARD: Well, I think the risks of a recession are a little bit elevated, but I don't think they're anywhere more than 50 percent. So, I think we're still far away from that happening. And this is because the fundamentals for consumer are still in place. You know, we still paying rates, mortgage rates at the rate that we locked years ago. OK. A lot of consumers have mortgages and they are not paying at the new high mortgage rate.

We also have a stable labor market, and that means that consumers are getting paid and that is, you know, a stable flow of income, which allows consumers to support the kind of spending levels that they have been used to.

The reason we are concerned a little bit about the economic growth this year, and the reason we downgraded recently our projections for GDP growth this year is that there's a lot of uncertainty about what happens to the economy this year. And there's also this decline in consumer confidence that we observe in our own survey. I think that will create some sort of a speed limit to how much consumers can spend this year.

SCIUTTO: President Trump there said prices are way down. Is that true?

SHULYATYEVA: Prices are up, according to the numbers I last saw on, you know, economic data. We'll get another update this coming Friday. But prices are rising and they're rising and they will probably rise at the more -- at a faster pace, you know, in the coming months due to tariffs.

The question here is how much that will impact inflation expectations. And this is very crucial for the Central Bank as well. Our expectation is that we will see the rise in prices and perhaps fast inflation, but that will not necessarily the anchor inflation expectations and cause another round of inflationary pressures.

I think tariffs -- and a lot of uncertainty that we see in the economy will weigh on economic growth to the extent that it will also put downward pressure on inflation as the year progresses. And eventually, towards the end of the year, we'll see these inflationary pressures a bit. That's why we have the Fed cutting interest rates this year in our projections.

SCIUTTO: There are -- when you look at the expectations for a recession, like you, most economists don't say a greater than 50 percent chance, but the chances are increasing. When you look at Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, et cetera. I wonder what are the risks of that nightmare combination of rising prices and lowering economic growth stagflation? Is that a real possibility that the Fed might have to contend with?

SHULYATYEVA: Again, the key word here is inflation expectations. This is the third key factor to what you would call a speculation environment. So, yes, definitely, we're going to see some slowdown in economic growth. We already see that happening in the first quarter of this year, according to tracking estimates. We'll also see some pickup in inflation. That's probably next to certainty if we do get some tariffs on April 2nd another round of tariffs.

The big concern here is what happens to what people think about what happens to inflation going forward. And this is kind of a self- fulfilling prophecy. So, if we get this de-anchoring in inflation expectations, that's a real problem. That's what we're going to call stagflation. And in this case, the Fed will face really hard choices and will probably have to push the economy into a recession to conquer inflation.

I don't think we're anywhere near that. I think the Fed does have, you know, very tough choices at this point, but not to the extent that they will have to really push the brakes as hard as to push the economy into a downturn.

SCIUTTO: Yelena Shulyatyeva, thanks so much for joining. Senior economist at the Conference Board.

SHULYATYEVA: My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, two powerful politicians vying for one big prize, the presidency of Turkey. We're going to take a closer look at their power struggle, which has led to massive protests across Turkey. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are more international headlines we are watching today. An Oscar winning Palestinian director has been released from Israeli custody after he was attacked and then detained overnight. According to his wife, Hamdan Bilal was beaten by a group of settlers outside his home in the West Bank on Monday, then taken into police custody. Bilal's brother says the director was treated for his injuries at a hospital and has since gone home.

Thousands of Palestinians have been demonstrating against Hamas in Northern Gaza in what appears to be the largest protest against the terrorist group since the October 7th attacks on Israel. Large crowds seen in the streets of Beit Lahia. A message shared on social media appeared to call for more anti-Hamas demonstrations, which we should note are dangerous. They're calling for more of them across Gaza on Wednesday.

The medical staff taking care of Pope Francis considered ending his treatment so he could die in peace, that's according to the doctor who led the team looking out for Pope Francis. The doctor says his most critical moment came on February 28th when he had a breathing crisis.

Officials in Turkey, say more than 1,400 people are now in custody across the country since the start of massive political protests there last week. A Turkish court has ordered the detention of seven journalists simply for covering those ongoing demonstrations. Turkish citizens gathered once again Tuesday for more protests, sparked by the arrest of Istanbul's mayor, who is the main rival of the country's president. CNN's Nada Bashir reports on the bitter rivalry between the two men, which helped spark today's crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a shock election result, a virtual unknown now mayor of Istanbul. Ekrem Imamoglu win in 2019 rest in control of Turkey's largest city from its governing AK Party and its predecessor after 25 years in power. The victory catapulted him to national fame and set the scene for the rockiest of political standoffs.

The country's president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, was Istanbul mayor in the '90s. For arrival to win the city had seemed near impossible, and his party demanded a recount, alleging election irregularities.

An unprecedented moment for Turkey and a defining moment for Imamoglu's career. Everything will be fine, he told angry supporters. A slogan then hung on billboards and chanted in soccer stadiums. They won the runoff with an even wider margin and it's been Imamoglu's catchphrase ever since.

[18:40:00]

Tensions with Erdogan have simmered on. Imamoglu gaining in popularity and winning a second term as mayor last year. Nominated as the next presidential candidate for his Republican People's Party, many believed him to be on a trajectory to one day lead the country, with the potential to shake up Turkey's political landscape.

SONER CAGAPTAY, THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE AND AUTHOR, "THE NEW SULTAN, ERDOGAN AND THE CRISIS OF MODERN TURKEY: Like Erdogan, Imamoglu is relatable and charismatic. On top of it, is almost 20 years younger than Erdogan.

BASHIR (voice-over): Erdogan's party has political Islamist roots and has reshaped Turkey secular state over the past 20 years. Imamoglu's party is staunchly secular.

CAGAPTAY: It's a brand that's more inclusive than President Erdogan. He's a social democrat in the context of European politics. He reaches across the aisle. He's more egalitarian in his approach to politics. He has empowered a number of women in Istanbul City government.

BASHIR (voice-over): Now, amid a widening legal crackdown on Turkey's opposition, there are numerous indictments against Imamoglu.

EKREM IMAMOGLU, MAYOR OF ISTANBUL (through translator): We are up against huge bullying, but we will not back down.

BASHIR (voice-over): His message last week, even as police prepared to detain him, that he, quote, "will not give up." Just days before he was named his party's 2028 presidential nominee, Imamoglu was taken into police custody on corruption and terror charges, which he denies. A political move, supporters say, to keep him out of office.

President Erdogan has said opposition, anger, and protests are, quote, "theatrics." And says, no one is outside the scope of the law. But Imamoglu has described his arrest as a dark stain on democracy in Turkey.

For now, even behind bars, this political upstart is still seen by many as a serious threat to Erdogan's grip on Turkey's top job.

Nada Bashir, CNN, in London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Thanks for Nada for that story. Coming up, a wave of violence against journalists worldwide. I'm going to speak to a Nobel laureate about the decline in press freedom, the threat to journalists, just after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Israel and the news network Al Jazeera are trading accusations after the death of a journalist in Gaza, Hossam Shabat was one of two journalists reportedly killed this week along with Mohammed Mansour. Al Jazeera says Shabat was assassinated in an Israeli airstrike. Israel claims he was a member of Hamas.

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The Committee to Protect Journalists says 124 journalists and media workers were killed last year making 2024 the deadliest year for the profession in more than three decades. Beyond war zones, journalists frequently become the target of government crackdowns. In Turkey, authorities have arrested at least seven amid ongoing protests there simply for covering the protests.

And here in the U.S. The Atlantic's Jeffrey Goldberg is one of the latest reporters to come under attack by the Trump administration for doing a story which the White House acknowledged was true.

My next guest had made it her life's work to document authoritarianism won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2021 after reporting on Philippine strongman, Rodrigo Duterte. Joining me now is Maria Ressa, CEO of the news site, Rappler, of course, former CNN bureau chief in Manila. Maria, great to have you on. MARIA RESSA, CEO, RAPPLER: Good to be with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: I wonder given your own personal experience of a government crackdown on a journalist like yourself, but also watching these events, deaths of journalists, imprisonment of journalists, is it correct to say that governments around the world feel emboldened to attack journalists and news outlets?

RESSA: It's been happening for a while. You know, in the Philippines we -- I called it death by a thousand cuts because it's like you're -- you get these little paper cuts, but then they open up and you're just bleeding out. And at some point, the body politic is so weak that it dies.

But what we're seeing globally is that the attacks on journalists are increasing as the quality of democracy decreases. And that's been an ongoing pattern for nearly 20 years, right? And it was accelerated with technology. And on both fronts, both in terms of social media, generative A.I., and of course, the kinds of weapons that are used in war.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Are you surprised to see attacks, virulent attacks against journalists here in the U.S. as well, which of course claims to be a bastion of freedom, including press freedom as we see the president attack? I mean, he's outright said that CNN and MSNBC are somehow illegal news organizations apparently for doing stories that are critical of him. Are you surprised to see that taking place here?

RESSA: I was afraid that it would happen and I -- you know, and in January soon after the oath taking of President Trump, I warned -- it felt like deja vu for me. It was like the Philippinization (ph) of the United States, and it's take two for me.

In the Philippines, when Duterte -- Rodrigo Duterte took office in 2016, our institutions crumbled within six months. Our constitution is based on the United States' three co-equal branches of government, checks and balances. Within six months, Duterte crumbled that and he became the most powerful leader our nation has ever known using a brutal drug war. To see it happening faster in the United States, to have fear. to see the stifling, the chilling effect on everyone, right? I mean, you can see the pattern. It is media capture, NGO capture, academic capture, and that leads up to state capture. These are patterns and trends of the dictator's playbook.

SCIUTTO: Now, to see Duterte though taken into custody by the ICC, given what you witnessed there, and I imagine as you were witnessing it, you probably weren't certain it was going to be turned around. You maintained hope. What allowed that to happen? What allowed him to face accountability, whereas in so many other countries, that never happens?

RESSA: You know, I was in Manila when this was happening, and Rappler was the first to come out that the arrest warrant had been issued on a Saturday. And when I landed, I was -- we didn't know what would happen because his pastor, when he was arrested, Apollo Quiboloy was wanted in the U.S. for sex trafficking, it was a week long, two weeks long standoff.

So, we were preparing coverage, but then, what triggered it? Well, international -- the ICC issued that arrest warrant. And for the first time, it was funny, the Philippines proved that an -- this kind of international rules-based order still exists. That's really what we're all trying to figure out around the world, right? Of course, it's ironic that it comes under a Marcos administration and it's ironic that the Philippines follows a rules-based international order while we look to the United States and we watch it going against these agreements that had set itself.

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SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, listen, your work certainly gives us all hope. So, we appreciate that work, Maria Ressa. And hope to keep talking through this as we witness these events. Our thanks to Maria Ressa.

Well, the 2026 World Cup hosted for the first time by all of North America with a record 48 teams now battling to get those qualifying spots. Who's getting closer to the final roster? Who's not getting closer? We're going to have an update just ahead.

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SCIUTTO: 15 months to go until the first football World Cup is hosted across three countries, the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. The qualifying matches, as I'm sure you might have been seeing, are already ramping up tonight in Buenos Aires. Two South American rivals go head-to-head at the Estadio Monumental.

Joining me now live from CNN headquarters in Atlanta is Don Riddell. I've been watching the U.S. men's national team, not doing so great, but tell us where you're seeing excitement.

DON RIDDELL, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Well, tonight should be exciting, Jim. As you say, so much football happening around the world. And today, I think arguably when you look at today, the best is yet to come, or at least that's what we're hoping.

In Buenos Aires two huge South American rivals going head-to-head. It's Argentina against Brazil. And let's just say that on this occasion, the Brazilians have more than a point to prove against, of course, the reigning world champions. Table topping Argentina won against Uruguay last Friday. And on home soil now in front of their own fans, they will be hard to beat even without their injured superstar, Lionel Messi.

Brazil, of course, are the five-time world champions, but they haven't beat Argentina in six years, and that's a run that actually extends to 16 years for games played in Argentina. And what's more, Brazil have lost three of their last four games against their most bitter rivals, all by a single goal. Their manager though, will take heart from his team's dramatic heart stopping win against Columbia on Thursday. It was certainly a much-needed morale booster.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DORIVAL JUNIOR, BRAZIL COACH (through translator): We are going there to play against the world Champions and Copa America winners. The team with the most wins in recent years. We are going to try and play our best football. We will try and get a big result respecting everyone and being respected with safety and understanding that the game of football is decided on the pitch where we will have 22 great athletes from world football. It will be a duel, but it will be decided within the four lines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIDDELL: Still a lot to play for in South America, but three teams have now booked their tickets to the tournament. Joining the co-host USA, Canada, and Mexico are Japan, New Zealand, and now Iran, who secured their qualification with a tour draw against Uzbekistan in Tehran on Wednesday. And their Inter Milan striker, Mehdi Taremi, was the star of the show. He scored a second half brace and that was an absolute banger.

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Iran are one of eight or maybe even nine Asian teams who will be playing in the expanded World Cup tournament next year. It will be their seventh appearance and their fourth World Cup in a row.

Meanwhile, Australia are a step closer to qualifying thanks to a 2-nil win away in China. As this stage of Asian qualifying. The top two teams in each of the three groups will head directly to the World Cup, avoiding another round of qualifiers. The Aussies are second in Group C behind Japan, Jackson Irvine and Nishan Velupilla scored the goals in Hangzhou. The Chinese goalie I don't think will want to see that second goal again.

There are two games left to play in this third-round stage of qualifiers. But, Jim, the next round of qualifiers are not until June. So, we'll have to wait just a bit longer to see who will punch a ticket from the Asian region.

SCIUTTO: Oh, that goal is painful to watch too. And I'm not even the goalie. Don Riddell, thanks so much.

RIDDELL: All right.

SCIUTTO: And thanks to all of you for your company. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. Please do stay with CNN.

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