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Tributes Pour In From Around The World For Pope Francis; Pope Francis Asked To Be Buried In "Simple" Tomb; Vatican: Pope Francis Died Of Stroke And Heart Failure At 88; U.S. Stocks Stumble As Donald Trump Bashes Fed Chair Again; Vatican Confirmed That Pope Francis Died of Stroke and Heart Failure at 88; Eiffel Tower Goes Dark in Tribute to Pope Francis; Pope's Death Marks Start of Centuries-old Process of Picking a New Pontiff; Trump Defends Hegseth in Second Military Chat Controversy; Hegseth Fires Senior Pentagon Officials Amid Infighting; Trump Hosts 145th Annual White House Easter Egg Roll; Kenya's Sharon Lokedi and John Korir Win at Boston Marathon. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired April 22, 2025 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[02:00:32]

ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a very warm welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States, around the world and streaming on CNN Max. I'm Isa Soares in Rome, where tributes to Pope Francis are pouring into the Vatican as cardinals are set to make funeral arrangements for the pontiff.

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Rosemary Church in Atlanta, where we are following the fallout or lack thereof after U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's second Signal leak.

SOARES: Good morning, beautiful, sunny morning here from Rome, where tributes and prayers continue to pour in from all over the world for Pope Francis, who died at the age of 88 of heart failure and a stroke, and he died, of course, as you know, on Easter Monday.

The Pope is expected to lie in state at St. Peter's Basilica for people to actually come and pay their respects.

And the Vatican says he asked to be buried in a simple tomb at the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, where his photos are now on display.

And the Pope's official residence has been sealed with a red ribbon, as per tradition, and wax seal, which marks the start of the grieving period, also the start of a sede vacante. He didn't actually live there, it's important to point out.

Pope Francis had an apartment at Casa Santa Marta, a Vatican Guest House, which has also been sealed as per tradition.

And this was historically done to prevent looting, but now symbolizes the formal end of the Francis pontificate. While the world's 1.4 billion Catholics are mourning the Pope's death this morning, during a memorial service at the Almudena Cathedral in Madrid and Spain, worshippers could be seen wiping away tears.

A special mass was also held Monday in the Pope's native Argentina, where Francis was born to Italian migrants in 1936. And he became a pope of many firsts, the first Latin American, the first Jesuit Pope in the church's 2000 year history. The archbishop of Buenos Aires, issued this tribute. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He put on the table and didn't hide the need for transparency in the church, the need for reforms in the church that were longed for. Maybe for this reason he was so criticized because he didn't quiet the problems, but put them on the table. He didn't hide them or make them up, but proposed humanity take charge of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: In the meantime, U.S. President Donald Trump says he and the First Lady will travel to Rome for the Pope's funeral. He also ordered U.S. flags lowered, half-staff until Pope Francis is buried.

The late pontiff met, if you remember, with Donald Trump back in 2017 during his first term in office, in their only face-to-face meeting. The two often clashed on the issues of immigration as well as the environment.

But despite past differences, Mr. Trump acknowledged the Pope's death as a personal tragedy for Catholics right around the world, and spoke about him with praise. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He was a good man. Worked hard. He loved the world, and it's an honor to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: He did love the world. U.S. Vice President also saw the Pope. J.D. Vance says he was happy to see Pope Francis on Easter Sunday, though he says, "He was obviously very ill."

Vance, who, as you know, is Catholic, says he will always remember the Pope for a beautiful homily he gave in the early days of COVID.

U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says he and his wife were saddened to hear of the Pope's passing. And former President Joe Biden has also been sharing some incredibly moving words on the Pope, mourning the pontiff, saying, Pope Francis will be remembered as one of the most consequential leaders of our time, and I'm better for having known him.

On his last bump in office, Mr. Biden had awarded the Pope with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest U.S. civilian honor.

Well, former U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi sharing her memories of Pope Francis, who she met four times, and she honors him as both a joyous and a beautiful person.

[02:05:10]

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): So, when he has left us now, I think of all the times that we met him, he would always say, pray for me, whether he was leaving the Capitol or with my grandchildren or whatever, he would say, pray for me. Excuse me. And we'd be like, well, no, you're the one who should be praying for us. No, pray for me, and now we will pray to him.

He was a saintly man. Cared about faith, hope and charity and peace. He was a blessing to the world and to the Catholic faith. And he -- again, saying goodbye and Happy Easter and then going on to heaven, it's just so remarkable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, mourners in U.S. have paid tribute to the first pontiff from the America. CNN's Brynn Gingras heard what they had to say about the passing of Pope Francis.

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BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And just as Catholics are mourning all across the globe, it's really no different here in New York City, where we have been seeing people all throughout the day going into St. Patrick's Cathedral to pay their respects to Pope Francis.

I can tell you that we've also seen people come outside with tears in their eyes. One person says that they felt broken. Another person said to us that she felt at peace since Pope Francis was obviously suffering for quite some time.

Inside the cathedral, on the altar is a picture of Pope Francis. Also the chalice that he used when he said mass at Madison Square Garden when he visited New York City for a couple of days in September of 2015, also the presiding chair he sat in when he gave that mask.

So, a little bit of Pope Francis, where people have been able to genuflect at the altar, the say a prayer, light a candle, have a little piece of Pope Francis as they leave this holy place here in New York City.

And I got to tell you, a lot of people really just reflecting on the humanity of Pope Francis, his humility and grateful for the man who he was, and the legacy he leaves behind, I want you to hear from some of those people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that it's, you know, he was a really exceptional person. And you know, he did a lot of things to try and adjust the church to modern times. And I really, really admire that in him.

And you know, the fact that he spoke up for immigrants, the fact that he came from another part of the world, you know, from the southern hemisphere, you know, I thought he was -- he was an excellent choice, and we're just, you know, waiting to see who comes next, what will happen next.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know he's done a lot to install bishops and cardinals who are working sort of towards the same ends of reaching out of community, of social justice.

So, hopefully, even if-- even if we happen to get a pope who's a little bit more conservative this go around, he sort of set the groundwork for a broader, more accepting and loving and welcoming church. And that's kind of my hope. I'm hoping that that's his part of his legacy.

GINGRAS: And as Catholics continue to mourn the Pope Francis, said the thoughts have turned to who will become the next pope. One person said to me that Pope Francis started the conversations, and they hope the next pope will continue those conversations and bring in a new generation of Catholics.

In New York City, Brynn Gingras, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Thank you, Brynn. Well, Pope Francis wanted to be buried in a simple tomb in a Basilica which held great personal significance for him. Our Nic Robertson has all the details for you.

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NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice over): As he lived, so Pope Francis wants to be remembered in death with a relatively modest funeral. The pontiff picked his burial site two years ago, once a simple earthen grave.

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): The place is already prepared. I want to be buried in Santa Maria Maggiore.

ROBERTSON (voice over): More than 1500 years old, the Papal Basilica, Santa Maria Maggiore, sometimes known as Our Lady of the Snows, is a humbler pick than the traditional resting place of many popes, the gilded St. Peter's Basilica.

Basilica Santa Maria Maggiore was big in Pope Francis life before and after every overseas trip, he'd visit the Salus Populi Romani, a much venerated image of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

The Vatican has just five to seven days to make the preparations before Francis' funeral must take place, and despite Francis' wish for a modest send off. It is his humble characteristic that may make organizing his funeral even more challenging. His humility made him hugely popular. His death may draw many to the Vatican.

[02:10:03]

Over the coming four days, the pontiff is expected to first lay and rest in the Sistine Chapel, then the Clementine Chapel for private visitations before laying in state inside St. Peter's Basilica, where the public will be able to come pay their respects.

The last Pope's funeral, Benedict XVI, two years ago, drew close to 200,000 mourners. Was elaborate, but as he died almost a decade after he abdicated, comparisons are hard to make. The last Pope to die in office was Pope John Paul II in 2005, he had a very elaborate funeral. So many world leaders wanted to come. Nations were limited to five places each, Italy and its native Poland granted rare exceptions, an estimated 300,000 people attended in St. Peter's Square.

Following Francis' funeral, there will be nine days of prayer and service known as the Novendiales. After that, 15 to 20 days from now, the process of picking a new pope begins, known as the conclave of cardinals.

120 of the church's 252 cardinals convenes in private. They remain isolated until Francis' successor is agreed. It may take almost two weeks.

White smoke will signal success a new pope is announced.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Well, here with me in Rome is CNN Vatican analyst, Elise Allen. Elise, thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us.

Nic Robertson, our correspondent was talking already about the next pope. I don't want to go there yet. We will talk about that, but just take the moment for a second, you know, to think of Pope Francis, and the number of mourners from right around the world who have been showing us an outpouring of grief for this man in, you know, in everything, he stood for, his simplicity and humility. What do you think made him such a unique Pope?

ELISE ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: That's a very big question. I think Francis is big in many ways. I think what really resonated with a lot of people, what made him such a beloved figure around the world, was his simplicity. Was the fact that he was so close to the people.

He made proximity to the people, sort of a cornerstone of bedrock of his papacy from day one. And that made an impression. People felt that he was close to them, not just as, you know, sort of an anonymous bunch of Catholics, but to them personally. And that was very special. And that marked, I think, his entire 12 years as Pope.

And I think also the great joy that he had in his simplicity. He was somebody that came alive when he was with the people. And I think you know, when they saw that in their pastor, you can't not feel an affection, an overwhelming amount of love for this man. You know, and how he feels when he's with you. You know, as your pastor. I think those are all things about his specific personality that really captured the world. And, of course, his pastoral approach. He's somebody that really focused not so much on the rules, but the application of those rules to people's lives.

You know, he wanted a certain level of flexibility to meet the needs of people in their specific situations. And that was not appreciated by some people, but it was by others.

But I think that also sent a message that he's somebody that cares about you and your specific situation. And that was also something I think that made him very special in many people's eyes.

SOARES: In many ways and similar, perhaps, if I remember very clearly John Paul II, he went to his flock, right? Pope Francis is very similar. Wanted to go out there, wanted to travel, wanted to be -- wanted to be with the people.

But also the communication I found, which is so open and so transparent in many ways. Even from the first moment in 2013 when he became Pope, he spoke in such plain terms, in many ways, that I think that perhaps opened him up to so many generations, and not even Catholics or Christians right around the world.

ALLEN: That's exactly right. I think, from his first buonasera on the balcony of St. Peter's, yes, that captured the world, like, who is this man? You know, and he was so simple.

And then asking for the people's blessing for him to pray for him, you know, he was very simple, he was very open, he was very receptive. The language he used was so accessible to everybody. It made him attractive. I think people understood what he was talking about. He wasn't talking in lofty terms, you know, he was at their level, and that's something that was appreciated by Catholics, by Christians, more broadly, who weren't a part of the church, and by members of other faith communities.

[02:15:07]

You know, Francis was very beloved by Muslims. You know, for example, an Orthodox and Jews. You know, he had a very broad, I think, affection a very broad impact in all faiths.

SOARES: And we saw that just on Easter Sunday in terms of his messaging, right? His messaging stop the war in Sudan, Gaza as well. These are the messages that he's constantly been putting out there.

You know, when we talk about his legacy, I wonder what you think that would be. Because, you know, Cardinals will start meeting soon. Then we'll have -- obviously, we'll have conclave. How much do you think appetite is there for this, the current church, to continue that legacy?

ALLEN: I think there's going to be big appetite for it. You know, every conclave inevitably comes down to continuity or discontinuity. Do you want to go in the same direction, or do you want to do something different?

And part of that judgment is made on how well you think the past pontificate has gone, you know. And there are some ways in which Francis' pontificate has been a little bit rocky and controversial. His spontaneity, you know, his flexibility with church teaching was not -- without changing it, he was flexible in applying it, right? That was not appreciated by everybody.

But his real pastoral instinct, his love for the poor, his emphasis on a poor church for the poor, that's something that really resonated with a lot of people. His engagement with youth, with young people, and talking about, you know, the blessings and the risks of social media and the digital age.

You know, I think that the Cardinals are going to want somebody that can carry the positive things of this papacy forward, you know, but maybe who can calm things down to in the ways when Francis was seen as a little too much of a lightning rod.

SOARES: Very quickly, who then would be the person? I know would be, you think, the next pope to continue? There are a couple -- there are a couple of names I came across, but I wonder what's your take on who that might be?

ALLEN: Well, that's the big question mark, and this is the big challenge, I think, because we don't know so many of the Cardinals come from obscure places around the world, and they're unknown even to each other.

So, these meetings ahead of the Conclave are going to be very important. Of course, you have some names if you want continuity with Francis, some names are coming out, like Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Secretary of State, Cardinal Matteo Zuppi, both of them Italian.

And if you want discontinuity, there's Peter Erdo from Hungary. There's William Ike from the Netherlands. Those would be sort of who you want to go through in a different direction. Those are some of the names that are being floated right now.

And what happens? We have to see what the chatter is during the general congregations ahead of the Conclave, and what sort of vibes we pick up, you know, in those days ahead of time.

SOARES: Very much an open field probably for the time being.

ALLEN: Absolutely.

SOARES: Thanks very much, appreciate it. Thank you for coming in. That was Elise Allen there joining us.

Well, still ahead right here on the show. It's been another stock market sell off after one of these men called the other one a major loser. We'll check the numbers after the break.

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[02:22:22]

CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. Donald Trump's feud with Fed Chair Jerome Powell and the lack of a trade deal with Japan are dragging down U.S. financial markets. The Dow, S&P 500 and the NASDAQ all tumbled about 2.5 percent on Monday with no end in sight to the Trump trade war.

The dollar slumped to its lowest level against foreign currencies in more than three years. The president prompted the sell off with a social media post directed at Powell, saying, in part, with these costs trending so nicely downward, just what I predicted they would do, there can almost be no inflation, but there can be a slowing of the economy unless Mr. Too late, a major loser, lowers interest rates now.

Let's go live to Tokyo in CNN's Hanako Montgomery. Good to see you, Hanako.

So, with no trade deals inside and Donald Trump continuing to attack Fed Chair Jerome Powell, U.S. stocks are tumbling, tanking the life savings of many, so what is the latest on all of this, and what does it look going forward?

HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Rosemary. It's good to see you, too.

So, in Asia, there are a lot of concerns among the U.S.'s trading partners about just how stable the U.S. economy is and how independent the Federal Reserve can be. Now these concerns were reflected across Asian stock markets today, you saw the benchmark Nikkei 225 in Japan opening about 0.4 percent lower, followed by the benchmark KOSPI Index in South Korea opening about 0.34 percent lower.

And really, Asian stock markets were quite subdued today. I mean, losses weren't as significant as many economists were predicting. But of course, this does follow the massive losses we saw on Wall Street on Monday. Following the U.S. president's comments about the Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell, calling him a major loser because he doesn't cut interest rates.

Now, really, Rosemary, the discussion about whether or not Trump has the legal capacity to actually oust Powell, as he's previously flirted with the idea of doing in the past, is really up for debate.

I mean, that's a whole other discussion here, but the reason why trading partners, particularly in Asia, are so concerned about Trump's latest comments is because the Federal Reserve is supposed to be an independent body, governing U.S. monetary policy.

And economists say that if the Federal Reserve doesn't have the independence that it previously had, that it might not be able to regulate prices as well as it's done in the past.

Now, also compounding this issue here, Rosemary, is that it comes just weeks after Trump's Liberation Day tariffs. I mean, the sweeping tariffs that we saw hit a number of the usage trading partners and allies.

[02:25:04]

Now, these tariffs were paused for -- were paused for about 90 days, but we're already seeing an economic impact on some of the U.S. allies, for instance, in South Korea.

According to the latest customs data released from the country on Monday, in the first 20 days of April, exports to the U.S. fell about 14.3 percent compared to data from last year, and overall, exports from South Korea to other trading partners in the world were down about 5.2 percent compared to data from the previous year.

So again, Rosemary, we're already seeing countries deal with the fallout of Trump's tariffs and the uncertainty about just really how to do work and how to do trade with the United States and these countries really hoping for some kind of discussion with the United States before, of course, that 90 day period does lapse, and we see those tariffs potentially put back in place, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Many on edge as a result of this. Hanako Montgomery joining us live from Tokyo. Many thanks for that. Appreciate it.

Well, Harvard University is suing the Trump administration the escalating fight over federal funding and oversight. The lawsuit says cutting off money to force Harvard to submit to government control of its academic programs violates the university's constitutional rights, and it says there's no rational connection between concerns about anti-Semitism and funding cuts for medical, scientific and other research.

The Trump administration is freezing more than $2 billion in federal money over claims that Harvard has not done enough to curb anti- Semitism on campus.

Still to come, a look back at the life of the world's first Latin American Pope and how he lived a life of service from an early age in Argentina.

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[02:31:30]

ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome back, everyone. I'm Isa Soares, coming to you live from Rome, where it's just gone 8:30 in the morning. While several Latin American countries have declared days of national morning in honor of Pope Francis, the first Pontiff from the region, our Christopher Lamb recounts his early life and the legacy Pope Francis leaves behind.

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CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A Pope from the ends of the earth. Francis was the first Latin American pontiff, the first from Argentina. A native of Buenos Aires, much of his life spent in the Argentine capital, shaping him as a future Pope. Born Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the grandson of Italian immigrants, he had an ordinary childhood growing up playing soccer, developing a love of literature, and going to school to study chemistry.

In a memoir he writes, he had a childhood infatuation with a little girl in Florence, the Pope sending her a letter with a promise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said to me, if I don't marry you, I'll become a priest.

LAMB (voice-over): Francis, true to his word, first training for the priesthood, and then joining the Jesuit Order, quickly identified as a rising star. He was chosen to lead the Jesuits in Argentina at the young age of 36. It was a time of turmoil in his country during the brutal military dictatorship. Bergoglio was accused of not doing enough to help two Jesuits kidnapped by the regime. He denied this and insisted he helped people escape.

But disagreements over his leadership style saw the Jesuits send Bergoglio into exile to this residence in Cordoba, Central Argentina. He went through a dark night of the soul and later admitted to making many mistakes, a lesson in humility. Eventually, he was tapped to become a bishop and Cardinal in Buenos Aires. He focused his time among the poorest communities.

OSCAR CRESPO, FRIEND OF POPE FRANCIS: He told me clearly, look, I said I'm going to be a priest because my goal is to be at the service of the people. That's why I love going to the slums. That's why I'm going to the heart of the country.

LAMB (voice-over): Adopting a simple lifestyle similar to the one he had as Pope, never owning a car and using the subway to get around. He wanted a church open to all and focused on those on the margins. In the annual run up to Easter, he would often wash the feet of prisoners, something he continued as pontiff.

ELISABETTA PIQUE, POPE FRANCIS' BIOGRAPHER: His legacy is about this matter of a church open, a church inclusive, a church that is for all, not of a little group of perfect people. But, this is a Pope who speaks to everybody and to speak specially to the people, to the sinners.

LAMB (voice-over): Despite his position, Francis tried not to take himself too seriously, loving to crack a joke, whether with world leaders or groups of children.

MARIA ELENA BERGOGLIO, SISTER OF POPE FRANCIS (through translator): He has a great sense of humor. I think he got that from my father. When he had to be firm for something, he was, but with good humor.

LAMB (voice-over): But relations with his homeland weren't always easy. He never managed to visit home after becoming Pope in 2013. He was unafraid to criticize those in power and wasn't always popular with Argentina's politicians.

[02:35:00] The first Latin American Pope chosen to lead the Catholic Church leaves a lasting impression, a pontiff who came from the ends of the earth and called on the church to go out to the peripheries. What he began in Argentina, he continued during his papacy.

Christopher Lamb, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: While among the many tributes to Pope Francis, the Eiffel Tower as you can see there, in Paris, going dark Monday night to mark his passing. The city's mayor has also proposed naming a public place in Paris after Pope Francis in his honor. Our Jim Bittermann joins me now from Paris, more reaction to the Pope's death.

Good morning to you, Jim. Just give us a sense of how the Pope is being remembered, not just in France, but right across Europe this morning.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, right across Europe and around the world, I should say, is (ph) in fact, yes. Here in France, there were vigils last night in Paris and Marseille and Lille, and other communities. And there was around the world, around Europe, a number of churches held vigils, held requiem masses and that sort of thing. A lot of countries are having days of mourning, even ostensibly communist Cuba, part of Latin America, of course, where the Pope was very popular, they're going to have several days of mourning.

One of the world's most Catholic countries, East Timor which says that 97 percent of its citizens identify as Catholic, they're going to have a week of mourning. So, there's a lot of tributes coming from all sorts of places because Francis pushed, as Chris was saying in his report there, pushed the church to its peripheries. The idea that some of parts of the world that are not necessarily, traditionally addressed by the church, parts like Africa and Asia, should be included into the church following. And as a consequence, it's those parts of the world, in many cases, that are mourning him the most. Isa?

SOARES: Yeah, indeed. He really took the Pope -- the papacy sea beyond the Vatican, and that was so important to him. Jim Bittermann for us there this morning. Thanks very much, Jim.

Let's get the reaction from Asia now because Pope Francis toured the continent, if you remember, last year and it's home to tens and millions of Catholics. Christina Kheng is a Professor of Theology at the East Asian Pastoral Institute, who joins us now from Singapore. Thank you very much, Christina, for taking the time to speak to us this morning. I know that you met Pope Francis on a number of occasions. Just give us your sense, your reflection this morning of how -- what kind of a man he was and how you remember him.

CHRISTINA KHENG, PROFESSOR OF THEOLOGY, EAST ASIAN PASTORAL INSTITUTE: Yes. The most striking thing about Pope Francis is that his style was unconventional right from the start. And you feel that the moment you are in front of him when you are interacting with him, people find that very refreshing, and he embodies what's to me is most essential about the Christian faith. He doesn't hesitate to leave behind formalities and even flouting protocol at times just to be close with the people, especially to those who don't often find themselves fitting in, to let them know that they are seen, they are loved and welcomed by God, to encourage them to have faith and hope. To me, he really gave religion a new face, not a stuffy and distant one, but an affable and warm and even a joyful one. We will miss him dearly, especially for that.

SOARES: Yeah, there was a simplicity and a humility to the way he approached everything, even in his speech which warmed so many people's hearts and from different backgrounds, of course, not just Catholics and Christians around the world. He, as many viewers would know, he made a huge trip, a laborious -- I think it was 11 day trip from what I remember, to Asia, four nation, I think it was the longest trip in fact of its papacy -- New Guinea, Indonesia, Timor, last in Singapore. Speak to the significance of this.

KHENG: Well, it was very touching, especially, not just for Catholics, but for people in government and in other religions. To this day, they are still sharing about how much struck they are by his warmth, by his personability, by his care, and most of all, by his deep spiritual presence. We are caught up in that economic race and he was reminding us that at the end of the day, what keeps us going is love.

[02:40:00]

Love is really the thing that makes us wake up in the morning, that helps us to carry on despite the odds. And I think that message really made a big impact.

SOARES: And Christina, you specialize in the relationship between the church and society. Just speak to how he reshaped that and how he reshaped and reframed that relationship.

KHENG: Well, like many Popes before him, he was very prominent and vocal on the global stage. He minced no words when he insists on peace, equality, care for migrants and refugees, care for the environment, especially unity among all peoples. And that is especially important now given the trend towards nations looking after their own self-interests or forming alliances that result in a greater global fragmentation of the world.

So, that strength and that boldness really leads the way for the church to continue reshaping our relationship with society. But we have to be able to dialog. It has to be a relationship of mutual listening. And that's why what he has initiated in the church, especially regarding synodality, which is about mutual listening, being co-responsible together, promoting the greater good, is really the way forward. It's something that brings people together despite our differences and that's certainly something that has to be continued.

SOARES: And as everyone around the world, Christians and Catholics, mourn the passing of Pope Francis, there is a look now as well at who may be the next Pope. Can you give us a sense on whether you think that the church is ready for an Asian Pope? And the chances are, I know that Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle is one of those who is being considered. What would that mean for the Asia-Pacific region?

KHENG: Well, I wouldn't want to speculate, but I would say that the church at this point is more and more ready for a Pope that might come from any continent because we are -- we have a greater global consciousness now. There's this sense that we are a world church and whoever comes in, we certainly wouldn't rule out any continent -- whoever comes in would really need to have this global sense of the church, to be able to be sensitive to the perspective of every continent, to be able to dialog with the world as well, to be -- to engage with the world in the language that is understandable and that is relatable. That's certainly one of the important qualities going forward.

SOARES: Yeah. And that is very much part of Pope Francis' legacy, as I have been speaking to my guests this morning. Christina Kheng in Singapore. Thank you very much, Christina, to taking the time to speak to us this morning.

KHENG: Thank you.

SOARES: Now, in the coming days, the most senior figures in the Catholic Church will make their way to the Vatican to prepare for the conclave. That a very secretive process, of course, that's steeped in tradition by which a new Pope will be chosen. Our Nick Watt explains how it all works for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A new Pope to lead the world's 1.4 billion Catholics will be chosen by just around 130 cardinals in a mysterious, many centuries-old right, the conclave. Conclavis with key (ph).

REV. THOMAS REESE, S.J., AUTHOR OF "INSIDE THE VATICAN": They're locked in the Vatican, and all their phones are taken away. They're not allowed to communicate with the outside world until they elect a Pope.

WATT (voice-over): Every Cardinal under the age of 80 is summoned to Rome for this and must swear an oath of secrecy punishable by excommunication.

REESE: It's a secret ballot. The cardinals don't even know who voted for whom.

WATT (voice-over): Father Reese says the movie "Conclave" got it almost right.

STANLEY TUCCI IN "CONCLAVE": You have to commit to a side.

WATT (voice-over): Except a secretly elected cardinal would never be allowed in, and the Cardinal's robes were slightly the wrong color. REESE: I think Hollywood got it better than the Catholic Church. I like the deeper red.

WATT (voice-over): By day, the Cardinals will sit in silence and prayer in the Sistine Chapel under Michelangelo's magnificent ceiling. Two votes in the morning, two in the afternoon, until one candidate wins two-thirds of the ballots. By night, they stay in a boarding house nearby where the horse trading happens late into the evening.

REESE: Different cardinals will go around pushing for the candidate that they would like to see become Pope. Your friends have to do that for you.

[02:45:00]

You cannot do that yourself. That would indicate a level of pride that would be unacceptable in a Pope.

WATT (voice-over): The Pope just has to be male and Catholic. But since 1389, the Cardinals have always elected one of their own. After every inconclusive round of votes, the smoke from the chapel chimney is black. Ballots are burned with some chemicals thrown in to create the color. When a new Pope is chosen, the smoke is white. At the last conclave, there was a problem.

REESE: The monsignor in charge of the stove didn't follow the directions and the smoke came out gray and everybody in St. Peter's Square was scratching their heads.

WATT (voice-over): So they rang the biggest bell in the Square as well.

REESE: And as soon as you see it swinging, you know it's over.

WATT (voice-over): The new Pope chooses a name and is ushered to the room of tears.

REESE: And in that room, they will have three sets of papal garments. The white cassock that the Pope wears, one small, one medium, and one large.

WATT (voice-over): For the new Pope to wear when he walks out onto that famous balcony in St. Peter's Square.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on camera): So the conclave will convene in just a little over two weeks from now. How long they'll take? Well, that's an open question. Back in the 1200s, they once took nearly three years. That was to elect Pope Gregory X. Recent years, it's more likely two or three days. That's going to become the norm.

Now, the fact that there's no clear frontrunner, that might add a little time. Something that might take away a little time is 80 percent of these electors, these Cardinals were appointed by Pope Francis. So, there's a decent chance they might be on a similar page. And remember, these Cardinals are not just choosing the next Pope, they're essentially also choosing the direction that the church is going to take over the next few years.

Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.

SOARES: Well, thanks to Nick Watt for that report. Now, some Pentagon officials are questioning the defense secretary's judgment as he faces a second Signal chat scandal. Coming up, our Rosemary Church has the latest on that dispute.

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[02:51:55]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWSROOM": Welcome back, everyone. U.S. President Donald Trump is denying that there's any dysfunction at the Pentagon, but his Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is facing more backlash after sharing military plans in a second Signal group chat, this time with members of his family. CNN's Natasha Bertrand has details.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Sources tell us that Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, shared details about the U.S.' military operation against the Houthis in a second Signal chat last month, this one on his personal phone and that included his wife, lawyer, and his brother. The chat included over a dozen people and was set up during the confirmation process as a way for him to strategize with some of his closest advisers, but he continued to use it after he was confirmed to discuss things related to the military.

Hegseth's lawyer and his brother both have jobs at DOD now, but his wife does not and it's not clear whether she has a security clearance. There is also already an Inspector General Review ongoing into Hegseth's use of Signal and sources told CNN over the weekend that Hegseth has become increasingly concerned about that probe in recent weeks. But at least publicly, Hegseth is projecting confidence. He told reporters on Monday that the leaks were coming from "disgruntled former employees."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY OF THE UNITED STATES: See, this is what the media does. They take anonymous sources from disgruntled former employees and then they try to slash and burn people, and ruin their reputations. Not going to work with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERTRAND: News of the second Signal chat broke around the same time that Hegseth's former top spokesperson John Ullyot wrote a scathing op-ed for Politico saying that the Pentagon under Hegseth is in "total chaos." Ullyot wrote that "It's been a month of total chaos at the Pentagon from leaks of sensitive operational plans to mass firings, the dysfunction is now a major distraction for the president who deserves better from his senior leadership. It's hard to see Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth remaining in his role for much longer." Ullyot's reference there to mass firings has to do with Hegseth's decision to fire three senior Pentagon officials last week, including two of his closest longtime advisers, Dan Caldwell and Darin Selnick. We were told that the firings came after weeks of infighting between Hegseth's aides, including his chief of staff and press leaks that rattled Hegseth so much that at one point he actually demanded an FBI investigation. His aides advised against that because they argued it might only invite further scrutiny at a time when he is already under investigation for his use of Signal.

Natasha Bertrand, CNN, in Washington.

CHURCH: Thousands flocked to the South Lawn of the White House on Monday as President Trump welcomed visitors to the 145th annual Easter Egg Roll. During his address to attendees, the president did not mince words about the focal point of the day. We are bringing religion back in America, he said after vowing to honor Jesus Christ "very powerfully."

Well, a thrilling end to the world's oldest annual marathon, Kenyan Sharon Lokedi bested compatriot and two-time defending champion Hellen Obiri at the Boston Marathon on Monday, smashing the women's course record in the process.

[02:55:00]

Kenyan John Korir dominated the men's race, following in the footsteps of his brother who took the title in Boston 13 years ago. This latest win marks the first time a pair of brothers have won the Boston Marathon.

I want to thank you so much for your company this hour. I'm Rosemary Church. I will be back with Isa Soares in Rome at the top of the hour with our coverage on the death of Pope Francis.

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