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Pope To Lie In State At St. Peter's Basilica Today; Church To Start Centuries-Old Process To Pick New Pope; Indian Police: Gunmen Kill 26 In Attack On Tourists; Wall Street Rebounds After U.S. Remarks On China Trade War; IMF Warns U.S. & Global Economies To Slow Tariffs; Trump: "No Intention Of Firing" Fed Chair Powell; Pope's Funeral Kicks Off Nine Days of Mourning; Funeral for Pope Francis to Be Held on Saturday; Pontiff to Be Buried in Simple Tomb at Santa Maria Maggiore Basilica; Pope to Lie in State at St. Peter's Basilica Today; Embattled Hegseth Remains Defiant Despite Leaks, Disarray; Zelenskyy Says Ready for Any Format of Negotiations With Moscow. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired April 23, 2025 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[02:00:00]

ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and a very warm welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world and streaming on CNN Max. I'm Isa Soares in Rome where in just a short while Pope Francis' body will make the journey to Saint Peter's Basilica. Thousands, of course, await the chance to say their goodbye.

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Rosemary Church in Atlanta. Donald Trump walks back his tough talk on trade. The U.S. President now saying tariffs on China won't be as high as he initially threatened.

SOARES: A very good morning to you from Rome where it's just gone 08:00 in the morning, and the public will soon get their first chance to pay their respects to the pope honored for his humility and his simplicity and his mercy, of course, importantly, towards the marginalized.

In about roughly an hour, a senior Vatican official known as the Camerlengo or Chamberlain is scheduled to preside over a short prayer in the chapel of the Vatican Santa Maria Guest House. That is where Pope Francis had lived, of course. His coffin will then be taken to Saint Peter's Basilica in a ceremonial procession just about under three kilometers or so.

The cardinals will be first to pay their respects before then the doors open to the public as they will remain open for most of the next three days. And we have started to see, in the early hours of this morning, people already, mourners, coming to pay their final respects.

I was able to speak to many in, Saint Peter's Square yesterday, even those who are not Catholic, even those who are not Christian, telling me what they love the most about the pope, and that is his simplicity, his humility, and his love really, to be with the people and speak to those directly. This meant so much to so many.

And the pope's funeral, of course, is something we were telling you this time roughly yesterday, is then scheduled for this Saturday. CNN's Vatican Correspondent, Christopher Lamb, explains who will attend, who won't and how Pope Francis will be laid to rest. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A location steeped in history, the home of the popes. Saint Peter's Square soon to be the setting of Pope Francis's funeral mass set to host thousands Saturday morning coming to pray and pay their last respects to a hugely popular pope.

Francis, who won people over with his down to earth style and humility, before the funeral, the faith will have a chance to say goodbye to the pope, as he lies in State in Saint Peter's Basilica, in a simple coffin and not on crimson cushions.

Francis insisting his farewell to be fitting for a shepherd and a disciple and not of a powerful man of this world. Historically, papal funerals have been some of the most watched events in the world, moving ceremonies attended by heads of State and visiting dignitaries. Leaders from across the world are expected to pay their respects to a moral voice on the world stage who prioritize peace, the planet, and the plight of migrants.

Already confirmed to attend Saturday, French President Emmanuel Macron, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the President of France's native Argentina, Javier Milei, and President Donald Trump. Russian President Vladimir Putin says he won't attend.

Saint Peter's Basilica has been the traditional burial place of many popes, but this pontiff has become the first in a century to choose a different resting place. Francis's body will be taken to Rome's Basilica Of Santa Maria Maggiore for burial. He talked about that wish in a 2023 interview.

POPE FRANCIS: (Foreign Language).

LAMB (voice over): The first pope since the seventeenth century to be buried at the basilica, a place he regularly visited, particularly before and after foreign trips. In his will he made a final request for a tomb which must be in the ground, simple, without particular decoration, and with only the inscription, Franciscus.

Even in death, Francis is a pope who continues to leave a message to the world and the church he led for more than a decade. Christopher Lamb, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Let's get more. Claire Giangrave is a Vatican Reporter with the Religion News Service, and she is here in Rome. Claire, great to speak to you again. I want to focus, if I could, this morning, on what we're likely to see, and that is in the next hour or so the pope's body being transferred from where he is in the chapel and to then being lying in State.

[02:05:00]

And so many mourners this morning are already making their way to Saint Peter's Square to be able to pay their respects. Talk us through what we are likely to see and the significance and the symbolism in this procession.

CLAIRE GIANGRAVE, VATICAN REPORTER, RELIGION NEWS SERVICE: Well, absolutely. This is the result of Pope Francis' efforts to streamline and simplify procedures for papal funerals. As he put it, he wants to be remembered as a bishop, a priest not as powerful of this world during his funeral.

And this means that after a much shorter vigil than that that would take place in the past, the pope's body will be moved in a coffin with some of the most important prelates inside the Vatican, including the dean of the College of Cardinals, the Camerlengo, the chamberlain, this figure, who is charged with overseeing all the logistics in this very delicate time where the church is left without a pope.

They will be moved following a very clear path that has been described to journalists. It goes through several parts of Vatican City from the Domus Santa Marta where the pope lived and into Saint Peter's Basilica. And that's where regular people, faithful believers, but also nonbelievers will have a chance to line up, and we're seeing them already lining up to go and pay their final respects.

Much upon a time, the pope would be put on this catapult. It was called. It's this large wooden structure, and it would sort of show this power that the pontiffs has. Pope Francis scratched that. He wants something much simple -- simpler. He will be wearing his red miter -- his miter and his papal clothes that we've seen him wear in the pictures that have been given to us by the Vatican. And that's how faithful we'll get to see him starting today and for the next three days.

SOARES: Yeah. And I was reading in one of the newspapers in the Correia de Lacerda this morning, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. He's wearing, even one of his -- I think it's a silver ring that he wore even as, you know, as a young bishop in Buenos Aires. So there's so much symbolism in what we're seeing today.

Claire, how much of a say would the Pope had in anything -- everything not just from the route, but also from the prayers today? Do you do you have a sense of how involved he was in his -- in the -- in laying out his own funeral and the vision he wanted?

GIANGRAVE: Well, when it comes to the route, I can say with some degree of certainty that Pope Francis would not have had a strong preference probably. But when it comes to the prayers, the spiritual aspect, absolutely. Pope Francis had, as I said, the rules of funerals changed. All the titles that would refer to the pope in the past, some of them might sound a little bit pompous, these rituals that are recited over the body of deceased popes. They have been all eliminated.

Instead, the words that are being preferred and that will be used are pastor, bishop, pontiff to just make it clear that this was the bishop of Rome. This was not a king or a prince. This was someone just like you and me.

SOARES: And that is what so many I've spoken to, Claire, loved and admired about him. It is his frankness, his ability to speak their own language, his humility and his simplicity in so many ways. And I think we are expecting to see significant crowds this morning and then in the coming days as he lies in State.

And then looking ahead to the funeral that takes place on Saturday, the fact that it will take place outside in the square, that is significant too. And it's not the first pope, where whose funeral was held there, I think John Paul was also there. But that, again, speaks to the man and how he wants to be remembered.

GIANGRAVE: Absolutely. The man in the square, Pope Francis, the day before he died, asked his nurse and said, should I be going out to the square? And he said his final goodbye to the people. And now even that he's dead, he's going to do it again.

And that square that Bernini built that is made to look like open arms embracing faithful coming in is now going to be welcoming hundreds and possibly even, you know, hundreds of thousands of faithful who want to pay their last respects.

And let's keep in mind that it's not just the pope's funeral right now, there's a jubilee taking place. There are young people who were coming for the jubilee, this great celebration in the church that happens only four year -- four times in a century. And they were here to celebrate, youth and young people in the church. They're now here to mourn the death of the pope. And this is the period of Easter.

[02:10:00]

Even if you're not Catholic, a lot of people would be on vacation in the eternal city, and they just happen to find themselves in one of the most important times for the Catholic church and for many believers around the globe. So, yes, we can expect a lot of people to come and pay homage on Saturday when the funeral mass takes place.

SOARES: Yeah. And I spoke to some of those youngsters, a group of them, praying, you know, using their iPhones, reading a prayer in Spanish. They were from Uruguay. Incredibly moved for being here, and being able to say their thanks to, to Pope Francis.

Claire Giangrave. Thank you very much, Claire. Really appreciate your insight once again this morning.

Now in the coming weeks, senior Catholic church officials from right around the world will gather to elect the next pope, very secretive, as you know, secretive centuries old tradition known as the conclave. There are top contenders, as you imagine, for the papacy. But those who go into the conclave thinking they become the next pope may be sorely disappointed as our Ben Wedeman reports from Rome now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): One of the top candidates to succeed Francis is the man who served as his second in command, the current Vatican Secretary Of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin.

From visiting war torn Ukraine to brokering a deal that saw the Holy Sea mend ties with China, The 70 year old Italian is seen as a skilled diplomat and a conciliatory figure who could appeal to both conservatives and progressives. His election, however, could lead to clashes with the Trump administration as he has rebuked the U.S. President's Gaza plan.

Another top contender is Cardinal Fridolin Ambongo Besungu of the Democratic Republic Of Congo. A strong defender of democracy and human rights, Ambongo has been cardinal since 2019.

CARDINAL FRIDOLIN AMBONGO BESUNGU, ARCHBISHOP OF KINSHASA: I am happy. I am aware of the responsibility this appointment bring.

WEDEMAN (voice over): That responsibility has seen him stand up to warlords and corrupt leaders, becoming a respected moral voice. The 65 year old is also the leader of a massive local church of more than 7 million people and represents the growing church in Africa

A surprise candidate may be Cardinal Robert Prevost from the United States. America's global influence has made electors shy away from choosing a U.S. Pope in the past, but the 69 year old from Chicago spent many years working in Peru before leading the powerful Vatican office for bishop appointments, and he shouldn't be ruled out.

The top contender, though, may hail from one of the corners of the globe where the church has been growing, and few cardinals are as charismatic as Luis Antonio Tagle from The Philippines, often dubbed the Asian Francis.

CARDINAL LUIS ANTONIO TAGLE, FORMER ARCHBISHOP OF MANILA: We believe that Jesus is alive, and he was born and he ministered, he died, and rose from the dead in Asia.

WEDEMAN (voice over): The 67 year old led the church's charitable arm as well as the Vatican Department of Evangelization, and he may be well positioned as the church pivots towards parts of the world where it's expanding.

Still it's impossible to say which, if any, of these candidates will be chosen. If there's anything we can glean from past conclaves, it's that usually the favorites don't get picked. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: And as we saw, of course, Pope John -- Pope Francis, of course, wasn't one of the favorites, leading -- he wasn't one of the leading candidates, and he was the one, of course, who become pope. So it was -- it's very much at the stage an open field.

Still to come though, this morning, U.S. President Donald Trump signals a possible U-turn in his trade war with China. We have a live report from Beijing on his latest remarks just ahead with Rosemary Church.

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[02:15:00]

CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. Indian authorities are searching for the gunman who carried out a deadly attack on tourists in the Himalayan region of Jammu and Kashmir.

At least 26 people were killed and a dozen wounded on Tuesday. It's not clear whether foreign nationals are among the victims. A little known militant group called the Resistance Front claimed responsibility for the attack on social media. Militants have battled Indian security forces in the region for decades, but attacks on tourists are rare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAFI AHMAD MIR, GENERAL SECRETARY OF JAMMU AND KASHMIR APNI PARTY: We request to the tourists who are coming to Jammu and Kashmir that they should not panic. There is peace in the region, and the government is also with us. The incident will be thoroughly investigated, and we need to stay strong and united.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Following the attack, India's Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, cut short his two day visit to Saudi Arabia. He expressed condolences and vowed to bring the gunman to justice.

A rebound on Wall Street after the U.S. Treasury Secretary tells investors the trade war between the U.S. and China is unsustainable, and he expects a de-escalation. Those remarks prompting US stocks to surge. All three major indices closed up two and a half percent and more, helping recover the market's losses from a sell off on Monday.

[02:20:00]

On the same day, U.S. President Donald Trump said he was not going to play hardball with China and says he thinks the two countries can make a deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not going to say, oh, I'm going to play hardball with China. I'm going to play hardball with you, President Xi. No. No. We're going to be very nice. They're going to be very nice, and we'll see what happens. But, ultimately they have to make a deal because, otherwise, they're not going to be able to deal in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: The International Monetary Fund predicts Trump's tariffs and countermeasures from U.S. trading partners will hit economic growth worldwide. It now projects global growth to reach 2.8 percent this year, down from the January forecast of 3.3 percent. And the IMF expects the U.S. to see a significant slowdown. Its growth forecast for the year is now at 1.8 percent, down nearly one percentage point from the January projection.

CNN Beijing Bureau Chief Steven Jiang joins us now. Good to see you, Steven. So president Trump appears to be raising expectations that a deal may be done with China on trade tariffs. Trump's saying he won't be playing hardball with China. So what's Beijing saying about this, or what might it say?

STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Yeah, Rosemary. So far, Chinese officials have not officially responded to that rather dramatic climb down from President Trump and the equally revealing remarks by his Treasury Secretary.

But I think many, both inside and outside the Chinese government, would probably agree that without having to do much, Beijing seemed to be already having the upper hand in this latest round of exchange because in contrast to all these flip flops and twists and turns from Washington, the Chinese have been standing their ground saying they would fight this trade war to the very end, but also leaving the door still open for potential talks, only emphasizing that they would not negotiate under any threats or pressure.

So they there's little doubt they are trying to be perceived as the upholder of international order and norms. They want to be seen as the adult in the room, if you will. Remember, when they announced their counter tariffs against the U.S., they said they would cap it at a 125 percent, and they were no longer playing that numbers game as they put it no matter what Trump does next.

Now it's probably because they've been studying Trump for a long time, and the conclusion here seems to be concessions will only invite more pressure, and the only language the president understands and respects is leverage.

Now very interestingly, Rosemary, I just talked to a highly placed source a little while ago, and he said they often notice when even when Trump talks nice and sweet about China, his cabinet members would come out to say very hostile things again.

And they say given Trump's total control over his people, unless the president publicly rejects these remarks, they think he's actually condoning that, and that very much runs counter to what they want from the White House before any trade talks could happen. That is, reciprocity, sincerity, and perhaps most importantly, Rosemary, consistency.

CHURCH: All right. Steven Jiang joining us live from Beijing with that report. Appreciate it. U.S. Investors feeling hopeful for a de-escalation in the trade war

breathed a further sigh of relief in after hours trading when Donald Trump backed off his sharp criticism of Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell.

The U.S. President now says he has no plans to fire Powell just days after saying his termination could not come fast enough. CNN's Jeff Zeleny has details now from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: President Trump has long lashed out at Federal Reserve chairman Jerome Powell as recently as last week saying Powell should be, let go, saying that he believes that the Federal Reserve should work closer with the White House and lower interest rates.

On Tuesday at the White House, the president struck a different tone entirely. Given how the markets have reacted to all this talk of firing Powell, the president said now he has no such plans.

TRUMP: I have no intention of firing him. I would like to see him be a little more active in terms of his idea to lower interest rates. It's a perfect time to lower interest rates. If he doesn't, is it the end? No. It's not, but it would be good timing.

ZELENY: So certainly a change in tone from the president on how he views Jerome Powell, who he, of course, appointed in his first term as president. But make no mistake, the White House still believes that the president has the right, in the words of the White House Press Secretary, to speak out against the Federal Reserve when they would like.

But the bottom line is, the markets have not liked the, president, essentially threatening to fire Jerome Powell. That's one of been one of the things that has led to the market uncertainty and certainly the big fall on Monday. So the president chose not to speak on Tuesday until the markets in the U.S. were closed. And for now, at least, says he has no plans to fire Jerome Powell.

[02:25:00]

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, The White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Still to come, a closer look at the pope's tireless support for migrants and refugees around the world. Do stay with us.

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SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. The ceremonial procession taking Pope Francis' coffin to lie in State at Saint Peter's Basilica is expected to begin the next hour in less than 30 minutes or so. And across the world mourners are paying tribute to the pontiff's life as well as his legacy. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES (voice over): Catholics, as you can see there in Buenos Aires in Argentina, remember the first Latin American pontiff who was known for his outspoken advocacy for the poor. In The United States, at a mass honoring the pope, the archbishop of New York who will participate in the conclave to elect, of course, the next pontiff called Francis, a troubadour of God's mercy.

Have a listen.

CARDINAL TIMOTHY DOLAN, ARCHBISHOP OF NOW YORK: We praise God for the gift that Pope Francis was to all of us, a gift to be long savored. We're grateful to God for what he taught us by how he lived and by how he died.

SOARES (voice over): And hundreds of mourners came out to pay their respects in the capital of East Timor holding a candlelight vigil in pope Francis' memory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: While Catholics in Colombia are also remembering the pontiff, specifically his visit to the country after the signing, of course, of a temporary peace agreement during decades long civil war with the FARC.

CNN contributor Stefano Pozzebon has more on the pope's calls for peace and respect of human rights.

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[02:30:00]

POZZEBON: Thousands of faithful all across Latin America are praying to say goodbye to the first Latin American Pope. Here in Colombia, many remember Francis because of his visit in September 2017, when he came to Colombia to show his support to the peace process between the FARC and the Colombian government.

But in the last few days, reviewing the material that we had shot around that visit, I found an appeal by Francis that I think has even more value today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS, HEAD OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): From this place, I want to assure my prayer for each of the countries of Latin America, and especially for neighboring Venezuela. I express my closeness to each one of the sons and daughters of that beloved nation, as well as to those who have found this in Colombian land a place of welcome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POZZEBON: Now, those words that appeal are already more than seven years old, but given what we have seen in the last few weeks and months around the issue of migrants in across the Americas and in particular, Venezuelan migrants that are being asked, demanded to leave the United States, well, those words and that touch that Francis had towards this particularly vulnerable population thinking has even more value right now, where his people and his own Latin America is saying goodbye to him.

For CNN, this is Stefano Pozzebon, Bogota.

SOARES: Important view there from Colombia, where from the early days of his papacy, Pope Francis proved to be a staunch advocate for the poor, as well as migrants and refugees right around the world. I want to bring in -- to go to Geneva, in fact, and bring in Filippo Grandi, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.

Commissioner, very good morning to you. I remember very clearly, when the Pope began his papacy in 2014, I believe one of his first trips and the significance of that was the Italian island of Lampedusa, which of course saw a large number of migrants making the crossing from Libya, really the height of the migrant crisis which I also covered and let's not forget, as we've heard repeatedly, he was also a son of migrant. Just how significant was that trip so early on, you think, in his papacy?

FILIPPO GRANDI, UNITED NATIONS HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES: It was incredibly significant because, as you remember, that was at the height or at the start rather, of the big inflow of refugees and migrants into Europe, 2014, 2015, 2016. And it was also the rise -- at the time of the rise of a narrative that was hostile to refugees and migrants. And for him to put at the center of his teaching, of his advocacy, of his thinking, the defense of people moving because of war, persecution, but also because of poverty and hunger, that was powerful.

It did not change the course of politics completely. But we have to always think, what if he had not done that? What if he had not been a strong advocate for people on the move?

SOARES: Yeah. And like you said in your tribute, I read it this morning, you said, the Pope stood up and spoke out relentlessly, and he did that commissioner, until his very last breath. Speaking to so many -- to many of his flock on Easter Sunday, speaking out about humanitarian crisis, displacement crisis like the one in Sudan, speaking about the crisis in Ukraine and in Gaza, what did it mean really to have a Pope who advocated in many ways, commissioner, for the forgotten?

GRANDI: Pope Francis was amazing in so many ways, and I think that his greatest strength was to be able to tell the truth. He spoke the truth about refugees and migrants, about the need to help them as human beings. He spoke the truth about peace. He understood as well, very clearly, that refugees are at the crossroads between humanitarian issues and conflict issues. And that's why one can never forget, not only the trip to Lampedusa, but when he knelt in front of the warring leaders in South Sudan, imploring them to make peace. Which other leader in the world has done that? Which other leader in the world has had the political courage of saying and doing things that Pope Francis has done? One has to hope and pray that his legacy will continue, and that all the leaders that will flock to Rome to pay homage to him, many of whom are doing exactly the opposite of what he has advocated for, one has to pray and hope that some of that light will enlighten them as well.

[02:35:00]

SOARES: Yeah, and I remember clearly, in one of his interviews, and you must have seen it, commissioner, he spoke about the globalization of indifference. And I think that very much speaks to the point you are making, trying -- hoping, of course, that we see a continuation of that push for advocating for the forgotten and for so many migrants right around the world, because the Pope didn't also -- he didn't hold back, like you said, he spoke the truth when it even came to the Trump administration's immigration policy. Often, as we have seen criticizing mass deportations as well, and I think this is important here, the cuts to -- U.S. cuts on international aid. I mean, that is quite bold but that's, I think, what made in Francis. That's certainly what I've heard from people here. What is your take on that?

GRANDI: Unfortunately, the humanitarian community, the aid community is going through its worst crisis in decades because of the cuts, not only by the U.S. government, but by many European governments as well. Once again, who is the only leader who has spoken out on that, on the importance of maintaining that those aid contributions for the sake of forgotten people, victims of conflict, of persecution, poor people, victims of climate change and famine in Africa, in the Middle East, in Latin America? The only leader has been Pope Francis. And that is an important message as well as all the other messages that he has been passing on poverty, on social justice, on humanitarian issues, on peace, and on the environment.

SOARES: And commissioner, just leaving your commissioner hat for just a second, as an Italian, just a human being, just your -- how do you -- how will you remember him?

GRANDI: I had the good fortune of meeting Pope Francis many times. And for me personally, his loss like the loss of a father, of a parent, of a guide. I remember the extraordinary conversations with him because he was the best informed person you can imagine on very complex conflicts and political situation. He was always driven by this absolute determination of defending the poor. But at the same time, he was a man of great common sense and practical approach, and a man of great sense of humor, which helps a lot when you do the job that the Pope does.

SOARES: Yeah, he was certainly incredibly special in so many ways. Commissioner Filippo Grandi, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us, your insight and so important this morning. Thank you very much, sir.

GRANDI: Thank you. SOARES: And still to come this morning, doubling down and defiant, the U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth again claims he did nothing wrong in a second Signal group chat, but the turmoil at the Pentagon might not end there. Rosemary Church has more, next.

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[02:43:10]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWSROOM": Welcome back, everyone. The U.S. defense secretary is doubling down on his claim that three senior Pentagon officials he fired last week have been leaking information to the media. Pete Hegseth also insists he did not share any classified information in a second Signal group chat with members of his own family. And there could be more turmoil at the Pentagon, as CNN's Alex Marquardt reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Defiant, defensive, and accusing the deep state. Pete Hegseth coming out swinging today, trying to justify the revelations of a second Signal chat with highly sensitive attack plans and the turmoil, which a top aide who just left the Pentagon called total chaos and a full-blown meltdown.

PETE HEGSETH, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Once a leaker, always a leaker.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): Hegseth telling former colleagues on Fox News that three senior officials who were close to him at the Pentagon were fired for leaking classified information, which they deny.

HEGSETH: So if they want to keep leaking, and pushing and pedaling things to try to sabotage the president's agenda, that's unfortunate, but that's how leaking works in this town.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): The circle around the defense secretary of those he trusts is shrinking, some around him so frustrated sources say, they're threatening to resign. One person familiar with Hegseth's thinking over the last month told CNN, he's in full paranoia, back against the wall mode. Embattled Hegseth is also trying to downplay a second chat on the Signal app which he started, and in which he shared highly sensitive information about plans for U.S. war planes to strike the Houthis in Yemen.

HEGSETH: What was shared over Signal then and now, however you characterize it, was informal unclassified coordinations for media coordination and other things. That's what I've said from the beginning.

[02:45:00]

MARQUARDT (voice-over): Unlike the first chat that was revealed, which was primarily made up of top Trump officials, this second one included his wife, his brother, and his lawyer, none of whom would likely need to know about an imminent military strike. President Donald Trump has so far backed his secretary of defense, but according to sources, he has been asking for feedback from people around him about Hegseth.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They just bring up stories. I guess, it sounds like disgruntled employees. He was put there to get rid of a lot of bad people, and that's what he's doing. So, you don't always have friends when you do that.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): The White House said Hegseth is doing a phenomenal job.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This is what happens when the entire Pentagon is working against you and working against the monumental change that you are trying to implement.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): That was then echoed in a post on X. More bad news for Hegseth may come soon. His chief spokesman, a longtime supporter who left on his own last week, wrote there are very likely more shoes to drop in short order with even bigger bombshell stories coming.

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I've worked for six secretaries of defense. I've worked for four presidents. I've never seen anything like this with high-level appointees from the administration. These are political appointees, people that Hegseth chose, coming out and telling the American people this. So I think there's a lot more below the surface.

MARQUARDT: There's now a new example of this chaos under Hegseth. Sources telling CNN that last month, he bypassed Defense Department lawyers and directly asked the director of some of the Pentagon's most classified programs to brief Elon Musk on more than two dozen of these programs about China. Now, ultimately, DOD ethics lawyers said that would not be appropriate, so the idea went away.

But on Tuesday, Hegseth referred to previous reporting about that meeting with Musk at the Pentagon last month as an example of why he is so focused on rooting out leakers.

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Ukraine's president says he is ready for talks with Russia if a ceasefire is reached. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy spoke with reporters on Tuesday, reiterating the need for a pause in the fighting before starting discussions with Moscow. On Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin said he was open to talks with Ukraine. Mr. Putin even said Russia has "a positive attitude towards a ceasefire."

The two countries have not held direct talks since the beginning of Russia's full-scale invasion in 2022. Well, now from Russia with love, CNN is getting an exclusive look at a portrait of Donald Trump gifted by Vladimir Putin. It shows President Trump raising his fist after last July's failed assassination attempt. Our Matthew Chance spoke to the artist.

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NIKAS SAFRONOV, ARTIST OF TRUMP'S PORTRAIT GIFTED BY PUTIN (through translator): It was very important to me to show the blood, the scar and his bravery during the attempt on his life.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the first glimpse of what we're told is a portrait gifted to President Trump by Vladimir Putin in March. You can see the Russian artist, who we met in Moscow, was pretty kind showing Trump looking heroic, even trim.

SAFRONOV (through translator): He didn't break down or become afraid, but raised his arm to show he is one with America and will bring back what it deserves.

CHANCE: The painting handed to Trump Envoy Steve Witkoff was clearly meant to flatter, as Trump and Putin discuss ending the Ukraine war and rebuilding ties. And apparently, it worked. Witkoff said, Trump was touched at what he called the beautiful portrait.

Well, Safronov is one of Russia's most famous artists and has painted dozens of world leaders before, the late Pope Francis and of course, Vladimir Putin. The Trump painting, he told me was commissioned by a patron he suspected was the Kremlin.

SAFRONOV (through translator): I realized this could bring our countries closer.

CHANCE: Later, he says he was contacted by President Putin himself, who told him the flattering Trump portrait was an important step in Russia's relationship with the United States.

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CHURCH: CNN's Matthew Chance reporting there from Moscow. Well, looking back at the Pope and his interactions with some of his favorite people, children.

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CHILDREN: Dear father, we love you. Holy Father, we love you. Holy Father, we love you.

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CHURCH: When we come back, the tender and heartwarming moments Pope Francis shared with the youngest of the faithful. Stay with us for that.

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CHURCH: The procession to take Pope Francis' body to St. Peter's Basilica is expected to begin next hour. First, the Vatican's Camerlengo will say a short prayer at the Chapel of the Santa Marta residence where the pontiff lived. And then the procession will make its way to the Basilica where Pope Francis will lie in state for three days. This will give the public a chance to pay their respects before his funeral on Saturday. Pope Francis was known for the kindness he showed to everyone around the world and some of the times we'll remember most are those he shared with children. CNN's Randi Kaye has that report.

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RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pope Francis welcomed the world with open arms, especially children. When this boy walked on stage during mass, Pope Francis visibly chuckled, and when the boy's mother tried to wrangle her son, the Pope told his audience the boy is mute, but knows how to express himself. Then joked, he's Argentinean and unruly, before telling the boy to stay.

The Holy Father welcomed this young girl when she interrupted mass too. Let her stay, God speaks for children, Francis said. Instead of excluding children, Pope Francis embraced them and encouraged them. When this little boy wandered up to the Pope, the Holy Father stood by, allowing the boy to climb into his chair and hugged the pontiff's legs. The Pope tenderly patting the child on the head. As the boy examined the Pope up close, touching and kissing his cross, the Pope couldn't have been more pleased.

When another boy wouldn't leave the Pope's side during mass, the Pope asked his Head of Protocol to give the boy his chair. Over the years, there were countless hugs and kisses and blessings of babies, plenty of selfies too taken around the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got a selfie.

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KAYE (voice-over): During a visit to Ecuador, Pope Francis posed for a selfie with this child in a wheelchair, before offering his blessing. The Pope often gravitated to children with disabilities. When he met this little girl from Ohio at the Vatican, she was going blind due to a genetic disorder. He kissed her, touched her face, and blessed her eyes. The tender moment brought a smile to her face.

The Holy Father was so moved by this cancer survivor with Down's syndrome on a family trip to Rome that he stopped and kissed the boy's head, then suddenly offered him a ride in his Popemobile.

Even when Francis was hospitalized and recovering from abdominal surgery in 2023, he made sure to visit children in the cancer ward of his Rome hospital. Perhaps though, it was this event where the Pope gathered with more than 7,000 children from 84 countries that truly illustrates Pope Francis' fondness for children.

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He told his young audience, he's happy when he meets children because they teach him something new every time and remind him of how beautiful life is in its simplicity.

Randi Kaye, CNN.

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CHURCH: Very special moments there. I want to thank you so much for your company this hour. I'm Rosemary Church. Isa Soares and Anderson Cooper pick up our special coverage of the Pope's procession after the break.

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