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Trump Says Russia Made "Pretty Big Concessions" When Agreeing To "Stop Taking The Whole Country" Of Ukraine; Trump Envoy Witkoff Set To Meet Putin In Moscow Friday; India Shuts Border Crossing, Says Pakistan Backs Terrorists. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 24, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:25]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Hello. Welcome to viewers everywhere. I'm Max Foster. This is CNN NEWSROOM.

And we begin with new remarks from U.S. President Donald Trump that may have a critical impact on hopes to end Russia's war in Ukraine. Speaking alongside the Norwegian prime minister, this was in the last hour, Mr. Trump gave an eye-opening response to this question posed by White House reporter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: What concessions has Russia offered up thus far to get to the point where you're closer to peace?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Stopping the war. Stopping, taking the whole country. Pretty big concession.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: The president was also asked about Crimea, which he says will be very difficult to get back. He insists both Russia and Ukraine want peace.

Those comments come hours after a wave of Russian strikes on Kyiv, the deadliest attack since last summer. At least 12 people were killed. Dozens were injured.

Let's go straight to Kevin Liptak at the White House. This is just going to fuel the idea that, you know, Russia isn't going to make any concessions because the idea of it not taking the rest of Ukraine is, you know, looking into the future, isn't it?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. And the president, I think, not laying out a particularly clear case for why Ukraine itself should sign off onto this deal that the U.S. has proposed that essentially forces it to cede all of the territory that it lost to Russia over the course of this war in exchange for some very vague security guarantees and a promise that it would never join NATO. I think it is clear that the president's frustration here is boiling over, that he hasn't been able to resolve this conflict between Russia and Ukraine. Remember, he promised he would be able to do that within 24 hours of

taking office. But we're now butting up against the 100-day mark of his presidency. And it doesn't seem at all clear that a peace is in the offing in Ukraine.

Certainly, most of his frustration has been directed at Volodymyr Zelenskyy. We saw that yesterday saying that his unwillingness to sign off onto this American peace proposal was prolonging the conflict. We saw him flash a little bit of anger at Putin today as well, saying that Putin should stop this bombardment that we saw overnight in the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv.

And I asked the president earlier today why he was so confident that Putin still wanted to achieve a peace in Ukraine. Listen to his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: Do you still believe that Putin is serious about peace, given the events overnight in Ukraine? And if that bombing doesn't end, are you considering new sanctions on Russia?

TRUMP: So, we are thinking that very strongly that they both want peace, but they have to get to the table. We're waiting a long time. There's a lot of hatred there. There's a lot of very bad blood. A lot of distrust. But I think we're going to -- I hope we're going to get there for the sake of a lot of young people that are dying.

REPORTER: Mr. President, you have a deadline for when --

TRUMP: I have my own deadline. I have my own deadline, and we want it to be fast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So, he wouldn't give his actual deadline in that appearance. A little bit later, he put the timeline on a week saying that if Russia hadn't stopped its bombing by then, you could ask the president what he might do to try and put new pressure on Vladimir Putin.

But remember, the president's own aides, the secretary of state, the vice president, have all said that they are ready to abandon this peace effort if the two sides can't come to an agreement. They have suggested that this could happen in the near term.

You know, the president at one point wanted to have this war resolved by the 100-day mark of his presidency. That's Tuesday of next week. It doesn't seem as if that's going to happen.

But when you listen to the president talking in these appearances, it is pretty clear that he wants Ukraine to give up a lot more than he perhaps wants Russia to concede as part of this effort. Whether they're willing to do that, I think, remains to be seen. Obviously, Volodymyr Zelenskyy has been pretty resistant to giving up any territory as part of the end to this conflict, Max.

FOSTER: Kevin at the White House, thank you.

Meanwhile, Trump administration envoy Steve Witkoff expected to return to Moscow on Friday to meet once again with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. This will mark his fourth visit to Russia just this year, as part of the administration's efforts to end the conflict in Ukraine.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen joins us now from Moscow.

Another thing we heard from the president, Fred, was that he's being very tough. No one knows how tough he is being with Russia behind the scenes.

I guess these meetings, as they take place in Moscow, become more and more critical as things go on.

[15:05:07]

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I certainly think they become a lot more critical, and certainly now that you have Steve Witkoff apparently soon on his way here to Moscow, that that meeting is going to be very important. And it is certainly one that is very important to the Russians as well, even though the Kremlin hasn't officially yet acknowledged that Steve Witkoff is going to be meeting with President Putin when he arrives here in Russia, the certainly the Russians even two days ago said that, yes, Steve Witkoff is once again on his way or will be on his way here to the Russian capital.

And I don't think that the Russians would necessarily describe the Trump administration or President Trump as being very tough on the Russians. However, what the Russians are saying is they believe that the Trump administration is being very constructive with them. The Russians are saying they believe that President Trump understands their point of view as far as Ukraine is concerned, even though he may have been frustrated at that press conference that we just saw. And the Russians are saying that they, too, want a peace agreement for Ukraine, however they want one on their terms. And that takes into consideration their national interests.

And today I was able to speak to a senior senator here in Moscow of the Russian Federation Council, and he also said that the Russians are not going to be pressured into an agreement. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREY KLIMOV, RUSSIAN SENATOR: Sanctions cannot change Russian national interests. They are absolutely visible obstacles, artificial obstacles on the way to cooperation between my country, America, and the rest of the world.

PLEITGEN: The Trump administration has threatened that if there's not quick progress on its diplomatic initiative, that it could walk away from the process. Do you think Russia feels pressured by this?

KLIMOV: Well, it seems to me that we understand each other, and we try not to be involved in any kind of discussions or discussions about the schedule, the timetable of that events. But we do believe that we have to solve that, that things as soon as possible. It means, of course, to do that in a proper way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: So there you have Andrey Klimov of the Russian Federation Council speaking to me earlier today, saying that he believes that the Trump administration and the Putin administration understand each other.

And I think one of the things that's also key for us to understand, Max, is that there are two things that are important to the Russians in all of this. One of them is, of course, the Ukraine conflict, but the other one is, of course, what Russia hopes to be rebuilding relations with the United States as far as sanctions relief is concerned, businesses from the U.S. possibly coming back here to Russia, although the Russians themselves say that there could be some obstacles to that.

So, for the Russians, there's a lot broader agenda at play in all of this. At the same time, they are also saying that any agreement that they sign on to has to be right for them. And of course, there also there are two major factors that they're taking into consideration. One is that territorial issue that President Trump was talking about as well. And then, of course, the question of whether or not Ukraine could ever become a member of NATO in the future, Max.

FOSTER: Donald Trump suggesting that things will happen if Russia doesn't stop attacks on Ukraine. Very abstract way of putting it. But it does seem as though his patience is running a bit thin.

PLEITGEN: Well, I think his patience might be running a bit thin, but I don't think that the Russians really believe that there is a real threat to their position at this point in time. I think one of the things that's become clear, and certainly that we've learned as we've been on the ground here in Russia, is that the Russians are not afraid of the very large sanctions that President Trump has talked about in the past.

The Russians certainly believe that at this point in time, they have all but made sure that their economy is proof proofed against sanctions, especially with the relations that they have with China. And right now, on the battlefield as well. The Russians are saying, look, they are the ones who have the initiative. They are the ones who are having their troops move forward. Even, of course, the United States says that this does come at a at a very large price to the Russian military.

So right now, the Russians, I think, do believe that they are still on good terms with the Trump administration, with President Trump. And at the same time, they simply say that they are not afraid of any sort of repercussions that longer talks could have. The Russians say that they want to get this done, but they also want to get it done in the right way for the Russian Federation, Max.

FOSTER: Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, thank you.

Tensions between India and Pakistan are escalating after a militant attack in Indian controlled Kashmir left 26 people dead. All but one of the victims were Indian. Funerals have already begun.

India is now accusing Pakistan of supporting terrorist groups in the region, and has closed a key border crossing. For its part, Pakistan has suspended trade with India. It's also closing its airspace, canceling visas for Indian nationals and expelling Indian diplomats.

CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now.

I mean -- I mean, at the back of everyone's mind, of course, is that these are two countries with nuclear weapons, and things can escalate very quickly, history will tell us.

[15:10:05]

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Three wars across the line of control. Kashmir, it's still disputed. It has been since 1947, essentially between the two countries. And yes, things can escalate very quickly. I mean, just look at one of the skirmishes they had in 2019. Back then, a suicide bomber blew up 40 Indian military officials inside of inside of India. And that was blamed -- India blamed it on Pakistan, and they said the group that was responsible. And then an Indian fighter jet flew out of India all the way across Pakistan to the western side to bomb that militant camp. This is why Pakistan today has suspended Indian flights from flying over Pakistan.

And then the next day, there were literally military aircraft having fighter jets having dogfights over Pakistan, Indian and Pakistan fighter jets. I think what's also worrying, there's that escalation. But two of the things that really underpin peace for both countries. The Indus water agreement, 1960, between India and Pakistan, which agrees that they share the water that comes out of the Himalayas there in that disputed region, vital for both countries. Very much so for Pakistan.

Pakistan has, for its part decided that it's not going to observe the similar agreement, which was a 1970s agreement about a ceasefire between the countries at that time. These things have really been central to, sort of, keeping some stability between the two.

FOSTER: To say so many rely on that water and talk of it being an act of war, disrupting the flow. If it -- if the flow is being disrupted into India, for example.

ROBERTSON: Huge. I mean, water is everything in Pakistan, in the mountains, in the north. Plenty of it. Big rivers, ice fields melt further south, arid parched countryside. Agriculture staple of the country. I think there's another thing perhaps that's going to factor in here and amplify worries. If you go back to, let's say, the 1965 war, the second war that they had over Kashmir, 71. It was a war over Bangladesh at that time, 1998.

Some of the more recent skirmishes, the one I was talking about 2019, who has come along to help stabilize the situation. It's been the United States. It's been U.S. diplomats that have been at the forefront of talking down the ramped-up rhetoric.

We don't see U.S. diplomats engaging in the same way around the world.

FOSTER: Trump tweeted, or put a social post out.

ROBERTSON: They're there worried. But the engagement that Trump talks about is much more of an inward facing U.S. engagement. And if he doesn't feel the United States is going to be under threat, it may not get the same U.S. diplomatic engagement, which has been critical previously to talking this down.

As you say, these are two nuclear armed nations. They've been to war before. The highest battlefield in the world. The Siachen corridor is 21,000 feet. It's on a glacier that they have to acclimatize the soldiers when they're up there.

They fought a war there just 1998. I was there at the time when they fought that war. It was bloody. Thousands of troops, both sides, died. It can escalate quickly.

FOSTER: Okay, Nic, we'll be watching it. Thank you.

And mourners are standing in line for hours for the chance to see -- say their final goodbyes to Pope Francis. The Vatican says more than 60,000 people from around the world have filed past the pope's coffin so far. The Roman Catholic pontiff is lying in state for three days before his funeral, which is on Saturday.

After that, the pope will be buried in this simple tomb in a basilica he often visited in Rome.

Let's get more from CNN Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb in Rome.

And, you know, this is the moment for worshipers to try to pay their respects. And Saturday will be when the heads of state fly in, Christopher.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Max. The Vatican say that 90,000 people have come to St. Peter's Basilica to pay their respects to Pope Francis over the last two days. I've been out amongst the crowds. And it's clear that for many people, they felt they had a connection with Pope Francis.

They felt they knew the pope, who was, of course, incredibly popular, not just with Catholics, but also those of other faiths and even nonbelievers.

[15:15:05]

There's a sense in the crowd that this was a pope that they knew, and they've been queuing for a long time, for many hours, to get into the basilica, to pay their respects to the pope, who is in an open coffin. And of course, as you said, the funeral for Pope Francis will take place on Saturday in St. Peter's Square. That will be led by the dean of the college of cardinals, Cardinal Re. And those of you who have watched "Conclave", the movie, will know that the dean of the college of cardinals has an important role at a papal funeral and in the conclave that will elect Pope Francis's successor.

There are now more and more cardinals from around the world gathering in Rome. They're here, obviously, for the funeral, but soon afterwards, their attention is going to be turning to who comes after Francis and who they choose to elect as the next pope. Of course, it's the most important job that a cardinal has to elect a pope, and that is what is going to start to be on the minds of the cardinals in the coming days -- Max.

FOSTER: Okay. Christopher Lamb in Rome, thank you.

We'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: In the aftermath of new Russian strikes on Kyiv, uncertainty remains for where peace talks stand between Moscow and Ukraine. U.S. President Donald Trump says he believes his Russian counterpart is serious about a peace deal. Meanwhile, U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff is expected to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin in Russia on Friday.

Let's bring in our military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

As ever, appreciate your time.

We were watching President Trump speak just a while ago, and he talked about the concession that Russia is making is that it's not going to take the whole of Ukraine. I just wondered what you thought of that in terms of a concession.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think it's, you know, it's very much a situation where there's really a terrible concession to make in terms of the whole idea that what we're seeing is a president of the United States who's giving so much to the Russians, the Russians themselves are taking advantage of this, especially when you see what they did in Kyiv, what they, you know, attacking Kyiv, attacking all the multiple other cities in Ukraine.

And what you're really dealing with here, Max, is a very poor negotiating team on the American side. This negotiating team is not ready to deal with the Russians or with anybody else. And that is why you're really getting a very bad look at the disarray of American diplomacy at this particular moment.

FOSTER: He talked about a deadline in his mind, President Trump. He wants this done quickly. We were hearing from Fred Pleitgen in Moscow at the moment that that's not the how the Russians operate. Yes, they want a deal perhaps, but they -- they're not going to rush into one because they want to make sure it's right.

And that's going to be a problem for President Trump, isn't it, because he's clearly getting a bit frustrated.

LEIGHTON: Yes, he is. And the real problem that you have is somebody who is setting out deadlines when this is the kind of process that really has to be done independent of -- of deadlines, you may have a deadline in your mind, but you certainly can't use that deadline either in a public forum or often, even with the counterpart that you're negotiating with. And I think this fundamental rule that they're -- that they're, in essence, breaking of diplomacy is going to really hurt the American effort. And it's also probably going to hurt the Ukrainians as well.

FOSTER: What's your understanding about where we are with America pulling out of this deal as they've threatened to do? Of course, as soon as they do that, that's a huge story. But is that -- is that just a tactic?

LEIGHTON: Well, I hope it's just a tactic, but we have to really take account of the possibility that it might be reality. And if the Americans do pull out, the Europeans would have to fill the void. If they don't fill the void, then that spells a lot of trouble for the Ukrainians.

The Ukrainians have a lot to lose with this. The Americans, from a strategic standpoint, especially from a geopolitical standpoint, really need to stay with this effort. Negotiations are critical. But the key problem that you have here is that negotiations are not going to happen if the United States abandons them, and the Europeans don't come in to take their place. And when it comes to what the Ukrainians are dealing with here. They're going to have to prepare both for negotiations and for a continuation of the conflict.

FOSTER: A retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton, as ever, thank you for joining us on the program today.

We're also tracking a high stakes meeting between U.S. officials and NATO. Right now, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, and National Security Adviser Mike Waltz are meeting with NATO Secretary General Mark Rutter.

Now, the U.S. president has upped pressure on NATO members to boost defense spending and take a greater role in Ukraine's defense.

Of course, now still to come, the president of Mexico wants to ban ads from the Trump administration. We'll tell you why she calls the ads propaganda.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:16]

FOSTER: President Donald Trump insists the U.S. is putting a lot of pressure on Russia to end the war in Ukraine. Speaking the last hour from the Oval Office, the president says the U.S. is not taking sides in the conflict, promising that things will happen if Russia doesn't stop the attacks on Ukraine. And he believes his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, is serious about bringing an end to the fighting. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're putting a lot of pressure on Russia. And Russia knows that, and some people that are close to it know, or he wouldn't be talking right now. The prime minister understands that better than anybody. He wouldn't be talking right now. He's talking. And we're putting a lot of pressure.

I think he wants to make a deal. We're going to find out very soon. But it takes two to tango and you have to have -- Ukraine want to make a deal, too. And they're being hit very hard. And I do believe they want to make a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: This as authorities in Ukraine are searching for people caught under the rubble after Russia launched its deadliest wave of attacks on Kyiv in nine months. Ukraine's air force says Moscow launched 70 missiles and 145 drones overnight, mainly targeting the capital. At least 12 people have been killed and dozens more injured.

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the strikes are aimed at pressuring the U.S.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has the detail.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Trump's post on social media, the second time in a matter of hours, he's addressed the urgent need for the White House under their own deadlines here to get some kind of peace in Ukraine appears to be as upset by the timing of Russia's very barbaric assault against Ukraine overnight than he is, indeed with the act, pleading in quite familiar terms to Vladimir to stop.

Now, of course, just hours earlier, he had called Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy inflammatory for his remarks, suggesting that he wasn't willing for Ukraine to recognize occupied Crimea as part of Russian territory. Trump in the same post, saying that in fact, they may not even need Ukraine to do that. This may, it seems, be something the United States offers to do unilaterally to sweeten a peace deal for Russia.

But yet again, we see Russia showing its intent to attack Ukraine, 70 missiles used here, a death toll of nine across the country. And perhaps the intensity of these strikes aimed to expose poke holes in Ukraine's air defenses, beleaguered as they are with President Zelenskyy in the past. Having said that, they are urgently in need of the Patriot interceptor missiles that can stop Russian ballistic missile attacks, but a real sense of urgency over this peace deal. And Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, during a trip to south Africa, which he cut short to deal with the strikes on Kyiv and Ukraine, saying that after Wednesdays meeting in London, which had been downgraded from secretary of state level to mere U.S., European and Ukrainian officials, that in fact a document had been placed on President Trump's desk with a kind of ameliorated or altered suggestion of a peace deal.

[15:30:16]

I presume that will form part of a U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff trip to Moscow on Friday, something he will then present to Russian officials. It is clear that Trump, according to a European official I spoke to, wants a piece within his first 100 days in office. That does appear to be something elusive at this stage. But things are moving quickly, as indeed is the pressure mounting on Ukraine to make concessions, things that frankly appear impossible for Zelenskyy indeed to accept.

Indeed, for also, many of his European allies as well. But an intensity here to reach some kind of conclusion, really accelerated by the demands domestically of the White House for some element of success in their foreign policy initiatives with those they're negotiating with keener for a slower result. Ukraine for one more in its favor and perhaps for Russia keen to drag their feet as long as they can.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: The White House says trade talks with South Korea are progressing faster than expected, and the U.S. president claims every country wants to make a deal on tariffs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I can't think of one country that doesn't want to negotiate a deal. And they either negotiate a deal or we set a deal that we think is fair, because we don't have to go through all of these -- it would be physically impossible. We are going to at some point just set prices for deals. Some will be tariffs, some treated us very unfairly. They'll be tariffs higher than others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, this comes after the president said he may reimpose tariffs on some countries in 2 to 3 weeks, despite the fact that the 90-day pause from the White House on those levies is currently in effect. Markets are solidly higher, though. In the last few minutes of trade on Wall Street, as you can see.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich joins us from the New York Stock Exchange.

I saw a great line from a portfolio manager in Atlanta who pretty much sums things up, doesn't he? He says people are trying to dial into Trump's modus operandi.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Listen, markets have been up for most of the day. Theres a little bit of hangover, hope and optimism from yesterday when the president was more direct in saying that he was looking to lower rates of tariffs with China. And that's kind of fueled the market for most of the day. Yes. Theres been some confusion about whether the two sides are

actually talking, but just talking about talking is giving some investors hope here on Wall Street. But certainly, investors are watching the news very closely. And any new news lines that show an escalation in this trade war would not be good. Things are certainly not settled yet, though. Investors and analysts I've been speaking to for weeks now really want to see concrete deals.

Yes, it is good that the treasury secretary says that they've made progress with South Korea. But that is not China. And China is sort of the biggest country that investors on Wall Street are most nervous about.

But it's worth noting, though, that investor sentiment has improved. I talked to you about this yesterday, Max. That investor sentiment moved out of extreme fear to fear. Okay. So fear is not great, but it's better than where we were.

And we're still there. That is where we still are today. So not getting worse here on Wall Street, but it does not really erase all the damage that has been done and the volatility that we have seen here in the past several weeks. We know that market value has dropped by $6.5 trillion since February, and $2.5 trillion since April, around the time that President Trump announced those reciprocal tariffs that he then pulled back.

But ultimately, because investors are following the news so closely there, there will be volatility again based on what the president says, based on what China says.

But today here on Wall Street, sort of a more hopeful picture that at least the president and the administration are talking about China in a way that signals that maybe, maybe there will be some discussions with that country in the future that will certainly help to relieve investors fears as we move forward, Max.

FOSTER: Vanessa, thank you.

The president of Mexico wants to ban anti-immigration ads in her country, sponsored by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

In recent weeks, a version of this 32-second clip has been featured on Mexican television, radio and social media platforms.

President Claudia Sheinbaum says the ads are propaganda and discriminatory. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Now let me deliver a clear message from President Trump to the world: if you are a criminal alien considering entering America illegally, don't even think about it.

[15:35:03]

If you come here and you break our laws, we will hunt you down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Joining us now from Mexico City is our Valeria Leon.

Thank you for joining us.

I mean, how has the public reacted to these ads? They're pretty aggressive, aren't they?

VALERIA LEON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Max, U.S. Homeland Security TV spots warning migrants not to enter the U.S. have offended Mexico. And after the anti-immigration ads were broadcast across the country in recent weeks during soccer games and also primetime programing, Mexico's President Sheinbaum hit back by asking Mexican broadcasters to remove the spots.

But Sheinbaum went further, sending a reform package to Mexico's congress to ban foreign government's political propaganda or paying for advertising on Mexican TV networks. The aim of the reform is to prevent external influence on domestic affairs. Although she clarified that cultural promotion by foreign nations is acceptable. The measure has been considered by opposition leaders as a way of censorship in Mexico.

And today the senate will discuss the law, with voting scheduled for Monday. According to the president of the senate, Gerardo Fernandez Noronha. He also said that the bill will be fast tracked through the Senate in order to send it on the chamber of deputies as soon as possible. They're expected to send this on Monday.

But this pushback from Sheinbaum points to the limits of what her government is willing to accept from the Trump administration as she responds to U.S. tariffs, which are already taking a toll on Mexico's export-driven economy. Though some in Mexico expressed concerns that Sheinbaum's sharp response may provoke the White House to punish the country with a new wave of tariffs on Mexican goods -- Max.

FOSTER: Okay, Valeria. Thank you.

Now, cuts in U.S. federal funding at the nations top health agencies have put research into Alzheimer's disease in limbo. CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard says it has researchers and caregivers sounding the alarm.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Many researchers in the Alzheimer's space are on edge. There's a lot of uncertainty out there. Some have not yet heard whether their funding will be renewed. Their biggest fear is possibly having to end clinical trials early due to a lack in funding.

Now, what we do know is that in March, NIH halted funding for 14 of the 35 Alzheimer's disease research centers here in the United States. That's about $65 million in funding. And we're being told that it's at those centers where some research is currently left in limbo. One scientist at Stanford told me that his team had to hold off on starting any new Alzheimer's studies, because they're still waiting to see whether their funding will be renewed. They were expecting a decision around February. Their funding completely ran out about three weeks ago.

Another scientist based in Florida told me that his team has developed an app that can assess your risk for Alzheimer's, but it may never be released to the public because he's also waiting to see whether funding will be renewed. And separately, just this week, the National Institutes of Health put out a policy notice saying that it will pull medical research funding from universities with diversity and inclusion programs and any boycotts of Israeli companies. That appears to be a blanket guideline. The policy says it's doing this because doing those two things could be a violation of federal anti- discriminatory law. This also has Alzheimer's scientists on edge, because if their institutions are penalized under this policy, they could see their funding cut off.

Keep in mind, NIH is the largest public funder of biomedical research in the world. So, any move the NIH makes will have sweeping consequences.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Now, the first court hearing in Harvard's legal battle with the Trump administration is set for Monday. The suit is in response to the Trump administration freezing more than $2 billion in funding. Harvard says the loss puts critical research at risk. The funds were frozen after Harvard refused to comply with the request to eliminate diversity, equity and inclusion programs. The White House also accuses Harvard of fostering antisemitism on campus. Harvard says the federal oversight violates its academic independence.

Still to come, has President Donald Trump given China the upper hand in his trade war? We'll discuss.

(COMMRCIAL BREAK)

[15:42:50]

FOSTER: The United States or China, who has the upper hand in President Donald Trump's trade war? He softened his stance in recent days, and a short time ago reiterated that the White House is talking to China over a possible deal on tariffs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, they had a meeting this morning, so I can tell you it doesn't matter who they is. We may reveal it later, but they had meetings this morning and we've been meeting with China.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, Beijing has denied the two sides are talking and is standing firm. The Commerce Ministry referring to the trade war, saying he who tied the bell must untie it.

CNN's senior political analyst Mark Preston joins me now.

And it's interesting that President Trump won't talk about who he's talking to. And the Chinese are even denying it.

I mean, the reality is that President Xi isn't getting involved in direct talks, isn't it?

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No, absolutely. And I'll tell you, Max, by him not revealing who they're talking to, or at least giving us some idea of what level of official is having these discussions with the -- with the Chinese. You have to question, are they having these conversations. Now, as you said, Beijing says they haven't had any talks, who to believe at this point?

Regardless of who were going to believe, we do know that the market is hoping now that investors around the world are hoping that there can be a deal cut, you know, with China, or at least to stave off an immediate doom, which would be three times the amount of tariffs that we've seen on -- on China of all time, which is about 150 percent, which would be an amazing tariff, Max.

FOSTER: What's obvious is that the Trump administration has realized how much they depend on China. When the narrative before that was that China depended on the U.S. but because of the reaction in the markets, it's pretty clear that America's pretty reliant on China.

So, does that mean the president's actually weakened his negotiating position with Xi?

PRESTON: Well, I'm not going to pretend to be somebody who's an expert necessarily on international monetary policy. But I got to tell you, it seems like his position is weakened with Xi because -- because we have seen money now move out of the United States and move into international markets because they see these other markets as a safe haven.

[15:45:08]

The United States was the safe haven, right? This is where you would want to put your money because it was protected. However, there is great concern now from investors that Donald Trump, with his tariffs, has put the U.S. economy in jeopardy. And it's not just folks from around the world that are saying it. We're also hearing from some of Donald Trump's biggest investors, some of these Wall Street titans who helped fuel his candidacy by donating just tons of money to him, are also warning the same.

FOSTER: Any deal has to be absolutely watertight, doesn't it? Because, as you've suggested, all this uncertainty has caused so many problems, and it needs to be a very clear deal, which is going to take a lot of working through in order to, reinstate the faith investors might have in America as a safe place to put their money.

PRESTON: You know, I think some, some estimates right now, Max, is, you know, if we were to strike a deal right now that for the United States economy to come back to where we were or where we are or where we were, I guess in January, let's say, that it could take 2 to 3 years for that to happen. I guess the biggest concern right now is that this doesn't turn into a long-term problem for the for the United States.

And, you know, the United States can rebuild its trust amongst investors around the world. And now if it doesn't, then that is going to cause all other types of problems for the U.S.

FOSTER: China, you know, their representatives have been going around the world, places like Vietnam. They've also been talking to Canada, as I understand it, trying to build up a sort of you know, have a dialogue really about how they're all going to respond to U.S. tariffs. Are you concerned that somehow, you know, former, you know, nations around the world could collaborate really in a way that they haven't done before, which won't work in Americas interests?

PRESTON: No, it will not certainly will not work in America's interests, will not work in the best interest. In some ways, the greater you know, the good of Western ideology, let's say. But let's not forget, the Chinese have been very smart about putting investment into other countries, particularly Africa. Weve seen it in South America, Central America. The big fight over the Panama Canal. We saw, you know, at the beginning of the year.

But you're absolutely right. The fact that the Chinese now are going in, in broadening this and, you know, talking to nations that in the past would have never cut a deal with China, are now considering it.

FOSTER: Okay. And in terms of where this goes from here, you've reported and studied President Trump. I know it's very difficult to try to predict his moves, but a lot of it is just posturing, isn't it? And putting pressure on different bodies. Do you think that there is a sort of narrative to what he's doing and where it might end up?

PRESTON: You know, Max, a lot of Donald Trump supporters think his biggest strength is his unpredictability, the fact that he will come out and say anything at any time and try to strike the fear in others. And to some extent, that is an incredible skill to have. However, however, when you're dealing with markets and you're dealing with global financial policy, that doesn't always work. And I think that Donald Trump is learning right now that this is not necessarily the tactic he should be taking.

FOSTER: Mark Preston, your analysis is always brilliant. Thank you so much --

PRESTON: Thank you.

FOSTER: -- for having us.

We're going to go straight to the White House now, though. The NATO secretary general, Mark Rutter, is answering questions after today's meetings there.

MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: Hundreds of billions.

Now in total, 700 billion spent more on defense, on (INAUDIBLE). But this will indeed bring in not billions but trillions more for the coming years.

REPORTER: Did the president, sorry, did the did the president commit to maintaining the level of American troops in Europe as they are now? Did you talk about American presence in military bases there?

RUTTE: As you know, the U.S. is -- has to take care of many theaters, including the Middle East, including the Indo-Pacific. And I said before, since President Obama, there has been a pivot towards Asia. The question here is, how do you make sure that the U.S. is capable of making sure that you take care of all these areas? And at the same time that collectively we defend the Euro-Atlantic area?

That's exactly what we're working on. So, there is a total commitment of the U.S. to NATO, a total commitment to the famous article five. An attack on one is an attack on all. But also clearly a commitment that we have to speed up the spending in Europe, do more ourselves so that for us, it is possible for them to spend more time and resources on the Indo-Pacific, which I think is logical. Thank you.

Sir?

(CROSSTALK)

REPORTER: Based upon your conversations that you've had here in Washington with the defense secretary, with President Trump. From your take, do they understand the threat, that President Trump has on Europe as a whole, not just on Ukraine, but Europe as a whole, even to countries that aren't NATO like Moldova?

RUTTE: We all agree in NATO that Russia is the long-term threat to NATO territory, to the whole of the Euro-Atlantic territory.

(CROSSTALK)

REPORTER: Are you concerned about Turkey?

REPORTER: The president was asked about concessions. Are you aware of any concessions from the Ukrainians or the Russians and Ukrainians? Be concerned that a deal won't be in their favor?

RUTTE: Well, you know, when you are in peace talks, somehow you have to negotiate. But I think I'm not helping a successful conclusion of these talks. And I really believe that some huge steps have been taken over the last couple of days, and the London meeting yesterday was successful. But I don't think it helps if I start to comment on each bits of it. It doesn't work, so I'm not going to do that.

REPORTER: Are you concerned about Turkey and Syria?

REPORTER: What was your message to the president when it comes to Crimea in terms of Ukraine keeping that or not, what was your message to the president? RUTTE: Again, these talks are ongoing. It doesn't work and it doesn't

help if I'm going to comment on every aspect of talks and what might be on the table or not. So I don't want to do that. I think we're going.

Thank you so much. This is very special. See you next time.

FOSTER: Mark Rutte, just catching the end of that really, treading very carefully, of course, about his meetings with the U.S. but well bring you more updates on a series of meetings in America that have been pretty interesting today, and some updates from the president.

We'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: The Vatican says more than 60,000 people have filed past the coffin of Pope Francis so far, paying their final respects before his funeral this weekend. So many visitors have come from around the world that St. Peter's Basilica only closed its doors for an hour early this morning before reopening again. The pope will be buried in this simple tomb in a basilica in Rome.

The Vatican says a group of the poor and needy will greet his casket when it arrives at Santa Maria Maggiore. It says the poor have a privileged place in the heart of God, and so too in the heart of Pope Francis. We've been hearing a lot about that over the coverage in recent days.

Now, in Argentina, Pope Francis is hometown soccer club is remembering the late pontiff, the San Lorenzo soccer team held a mass in Buenos Aires on Wednesday evening.

Francis's love of soccer and his team never diminished as pope and fans have been bidding the pontiff farewell at the clubs chapel and say he was a card-carrying member of the club.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OSCAR LUCCHINI, CARETAKER, CHAPEL OF SAN LORENZO DE ALMAGRO SOCCER CLUB: The day we gave him his membership card, he said he would accept it, but added I'll pay the fee, he said. He paid his membership fees for the San Lorenzo Club religiously.

We handed him the card in person, and it had the membership number, 88235. Now, he has passed away at the age of 88. At 2:35 in the morning Argentina time. So, we don't know if it's a blessing, a coincidence or something he sent us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, the club's president says players will wear special commemorative jerseys at a match on Saturday, the day of the pope's funeral.

Thanks for joining me here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Max Foster. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.