Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Pope Francis Laid To Rest After Vatican Funeral Service; 250,000 People Gather In St. Peter's Square To Pay Respects; Trump And Zelenskyy Hold Talks Inside Vatican Ahead Of Funeral; Judge Charged With Allegedly Obstructing Immigration Agents; Former NM Judge, Wife Arrested, Accused Of Tampering With Evidence; Trump Says He Pushed Netanyahu On Humanitarian Aid To Gaza; QB Sanders Remains Unpicked As Stunning Freefall Continues. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired April 26, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:41]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

And we begin this hour with Catholic faithful and millions of others around the world saying their final goodbyes to Pope Francis.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEOCLIP)

WHITFIELD: The Pontiff's modest coffin carried out to St. Peter's Square for his funeral this morning. More than 250,000 mourners, along with religious and political leaders gathering to pay their final respects to the late 88-year-old pontiff who passed away earlier this week.

His body laid to rest this morning, entombed in Rome's Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore. The first Pope buried outside of the Vatican in more than 100 years. The ceremony is also opening an opportunity for world leaders to meet face to face. President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy speaking ahead of the funeral right there, seated face to face as they search for an end to the war with Russia.

CNN's Barbie Latza Nadeau is in Rome for the ceremonies. Barbie, great to see you. Still a lot of people there flocking to the Vatican and Rome overall. You were there for the Pope's burial. Why that church? What was it like when he did arrive?

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN REPORTER: Yes, you know, this is Pope Francis' favorite church in Rome. He came here over 100 times before and after his international visits, and most recently when he got out of the hospital where he was fighting double pneumonia on March 23rd. This is a church that meant so much to him. It's got a -- an idol of the Virgin Mary, which is the saint he prayed to and felt was his protectant. And so, the thing that's interesting about this particular church is it's sort of a neighborhood church too.

While it's a very important basilica, this neighborhood is one of the most multi-ethnic neighborhoods in the city. And so the parishioners who go to this church to get married and have their weddings and funerals and baptisms, you know, these people felt that the Pope was part of their parish and part of their community.

And when he came in the popemobile, when they brought him in and they turned it around and took his casket and placed it on a table here behind me to take him, the crowd, you really felt like they were just embracing him. There was just such emotion and people were saying the rosary and singing along with the funeral that was broadcast on loud screens.

It was just such an emotional moment. But the people of this particular neighborhood, the people that go to this church behind me on a daily basis are very happy that Pope Francis chose them and their church where he'll -- where he is entombed, in a very simple grave, a very simple tomb that doesn't even say he was Pope. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: All right. Barbie Latza Nadeau, thank you so much. We'll check back with you of course.

Let's also continue the conversation now with Katie McGrady, she's a CNN Vatican Analyst and the host of her own show on SiriusXM's Catholic Channel. Katie, great to see you again.

KATIE PREJEAN MCGRADY, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Thanks so much for having me.

WHITFIELD: So it was just last Easter Sunday that you and I were talking after the Pope's last service appearance, and we talked about your excitement over a Carlo Acutis, and how you were looking forward to going to the canonization of the first millennial saint. So all that is postponed for now.

MCGRADY: Yes.

WHITFIELD: So instead, you, like many, were, you know, glued to the set watching the funeral today. So how are you feeling on this day?

MCGRADY: You know, I have to tell you, I've been sitting in this flash studio since 11:00 p.m. last night.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

MCGRADY: So I've been living on Rome time and you know, I've come back and forth. They've given me coffee. But there was a moment when they put the coffin of Pope Francis into the popemobile.

And we didn't know exactly what it was going to look like to transport him from St. Peter's to St. Mary Major. And that was historic. I've been saying all week long, this is going to be a big thing.

But when I saw him put in that popemobile, I choked up a little bit because I told you last Easter Sunday, I was so looking forward to maybe seeing him in the popemobile when I brought my kids.

[12:05:01]

I'm clearly not there, but it was still very moving to see him in that popemobile one final time on this trip through the streets. And so I'm feeling tired, but also I'm so moved by, I think, the last little surprise that Pope Francis gave us, his last little wink that, you know, this is kind of the final farewell, and he did it in such a unique and particular way.

WHITFIELD: That was a surprise to the masses. However, he crafted that. That is a moment that he wanted to happen. You have met Pope Francis. So, you know, tell me what his passing has meant to you, and then what you -- and there we have a picture of you meeting with him -- and then what the simplicity of this ceremony in terms of the wooden coffin, but then that being met with the formality of the service, the totality of this whole thing.

MCGRADY: It's a great question. I mean, you can only simplify a papal funeral rite so much because you are literally being buried beside all the cardinals who are about to vote for the man who's coming next and world leaders who show up in throngs.

And so, the simplicity of the ceremony came in the way the coffin was on the ground. It was not placed up on a birra. It was on the ground. He was buried as a shepherd, not a sovereign. And also in the way that Francis ensured that this final resting place, when he was brought through the streets of Rome, would also be incredibly simple.

And so there's this simplicity to what happened with where he was placed and where he is now. The readings and even the homily, everything still had the pomp and the circumstance one would expect of an affair like this. But the man that we were honoring, there was a simplicity to it because of him.

And even in the fact that -- and this is just kind of inside baseball, it was two hours on the dot. The Vatican's never on time, it feels like. But they were on time with this. And that was very Francis.

WHITFIELD: Why do you think it was so important to him to make sure that this feeling of simplicity was felt even with the grandeur of it all, even with the world leaders, even with the 250,000 people in the end who all collected and assembled there at St. Peter's Square?

MCGRADY: I think Francis always wanted to be known as, and in fact was, a pastor, a pastor of the people. In fact, in the document that they read about his life last night when they sealed the coffin, they talk about how he saw himself as this kind of parish priest of the world, so to speak.

And so I think in the simplicity, he recognizes his funeral, yes, is of this man with so much power. But also, we're all going to have a funeral. We're all going to be carried to our final resting place, hopefully by people who know and love us.

We're all going to end up in a car driven to the last place we'll be. And there's a relatability. And so that relatability, even in his funeral, certainly something we experienced in his pontificate when he would reach out to be close to the people, when he would bring children into the popemobile, when he would sit down and try to broker peace with world leaders.

WHITFIELD: Katie McGrady, great to have your voice and your thoughts and your memories throughout it all. Thank you so much.

MCGRADY: Thanks.

WHITFIELD: So as we mentioned earlier, one of the most dramatic moments today happened away from the funeral itself. President Trump meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy inside St. Peter's Basilica. This is the first time the two have met since that contentious meeting at the White House back in February.

Kevin Liptak is CNN's Senior White House reporter traveling with the President. Kevin, what is the White House saying about this meeting?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, they say that it was a very productive meeting. It lasted about 15 minutes. And those pictures from inside St. Peter's were quite remarkable. These two men basically sitting knee to knee, appearing in quite deep conversation.

As President Trump, we know, has grown more and more frustrated that his attempts to broker a peace in this war have so far fallen short. And so this was remarkable. It comes 57 days after that explosive Oval Office meeting that ended with President Trump essentially evicting Zelenskyy from the White House.

These talks appeared far less contentious, but they do come at quite a critical moment as the U.S. has proposed this peace plan that would essentially cede some Ukrainian territory to Russia, all of the territory that Russia has gained as part of this conflict. It would include American recognition of Russian sovereignty over Crimea. That's the territory that Moscow illegally annexed in 2014.

Zelenskyy has said that this is not a plan that he can sign off on, and that has created an enormous amount of contention between the two men. You know, President Trump, just in the last week, says that he was no fan of Zelenskyy's. He has accused him of prolonging this conflict.

[12:10:05]

And so this opportunity for these two men to meet inside St. Peter's Basilica was quite critical. We did hear a little bit from Zelenskyy afterwards. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, how did the meeting with Trump goes? VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: It went really, really well. Productive meeting, I don't want to go to a lot of details if it's possible because the questions very sensitive questions on -- of course totally it's about how to bring peace closer and how was result in positive Paris and London, and we want to continue such meetings to bring peace to Ukraine.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

LIPTAK: Now, President Trump has left Rome. He is now back on his way here to New Jersey. On Air Force One, he put a message out on social media that I think was very, very significant, Fredricka. The President posted, "There was no reason for Putin to be shooting missiles into civilian areas, cities and towns over the last few days".

He seems to be referring there to Russia's assault on Kyiv over this past week. It was its worst assault on the Ukrainian capital in about nine months. The President went on to say, "It makes me think that maybe he doesn't want to stop the war". He's referring to Putin there. "He's just tapping me along and has to be dealt with differently through banking or secondary sanctions.

And so that is a shift in tone from the President. You know, I asked the President in the Cabinet room on Thursday whether he still believed that Putin was interested in peace. He said, yes, he thinks both sides of this want a peace deal.

Now, the President sounding far less certain after meeting with Zelenskyy in Rome, after meeting with a few other European leaders, the President sounding far less confident. I think that's very significant.

As we approach the hundred day mark of his presidency, the President here sounding far less certain that peace could be achieved, but certainly going after Putin as well for this assault on Ukraine that transpired over this last week.

WHITFIELD: Yes, that post can be interpreted a lot of different ways. Is it also an admission by Trump that perhaps this is becoming a lot harder than he initially thought it would be?

All right, Kevin Liptak, thank you so much.

Still ahead, the FBI arrests and -- excuses -- and -- excuse me -- and charges a sitting judge with allegedly obstructing the arrest of an undocumented immigrant. Attorney General Pam Bondi issuing this warning.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We're sending a very strong message today. If you are harboring a fugitive, we don't care who you are. If you are helping hide one, if you are giving a TDA member guns, anyone who is illegally in this country, we will come after you and we will prosecute you. (END VIDEOCLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

CROWD: We will not be intimated! We will not be intimated!

(END VIDEOCLIP)

[12:17:37]

WHITFIELD: Protesters rallied in Milwaukee Friday after a Wisconsin judge was arrested and charged in federal court for allegedly helping an undocumented immigrant avoid arrest. Judge Hannah Dugan faces two charges for obstruction and concealing the individual from arrest.

CNN's Whitney Wild explains how this all unfolded.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Unsealed court records are providing much more detail about what led up to Judge Dugan's arrest. And according to the FBI, this actually started April 18th when several federal law enforcement agents arrived at her court because she was set to hear a case involving a man named Eduardo Flores-Ruiz.

According to the FBI, he had already been deported once. They were moving forward with an administrative warrant to bring him into custody on an immigration administrative warrant. When Judge Dugan learned that federal law enforcement was there to arrest Flores-Ruiz, she became very upset and in fact pulled some of those federal agents aside.

And with the chief judge got on the phone where as a group, the chief judge insisted that federal law enforcement only take Flores-Ruiz into custody in the public areas of the court, which is something that those federal agents agreed to.

And this is important because the FBI says after that, Judge Dugan went back into the courtroom and as Flores-Ruiz and his attorney were leaving out of the door that would have led them to a public part of the courthouse, instead according to the affidavit, she said something to the effect of, wait, come with me and led them out the jury door, which would lead to a private area of the courthouse.

That created a significant hurdle for federal law enforcement. They ended up getting into a foot chase with Flores-Ruiz. They eventually did bring him into custody. But now the FBI is saying that that was an obstruction of justice.

And so they took Judge Dugan into custody Friday morning as she appeared in court Friday before noon, she was released. But while this represents a major escalation by the Trump DOJ, it is not altogether surprising because they have made clear from the outset that they are prepared to bring the full force of the law against anyone. And that includes state and local officials, anyone that they perceive is standing in their way to enforce these national immigration laws.

WHITFIELD: Whitney Wild, thanks so much.

All right, a statement was released on behalf of Judge Hannah Dugan saying the Wisconsin judge will -- I'm quoting now -- "defend herself vigorously, and looks forward to being exonerated", end quote.

[12:20:10]

For more legal perspective, I want to bring in now former Miami-Dade County Court Judge Jeff Swartz. Great to see you.

So, Attorney General Pam Bondi says no one is above the law and accuses the Milwaukee County Circuit Court Judge Hannah Dugan of helping an undocumented immigrant evade arrest. So in your view, is this arrest tantamount to the allegation?

JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT JUDGE: I think there's a probable cause finding that is going to have to be made. I think that what happened here is that the DOJ knew they could not go to a grand jury and obtain an indictment during the one week period that I think that they procrastinated over this. They decided to go with a warrant.

I think the worst part about this is that they arrested her at the courthouse. They perp walked her through the courthouse. This was meant as an intimidation technique and to embarrass her, OK, instead of going to her home that morning and arresting her at her home.

Now, is there probable cause here to have arrested her in the first place? There might well have been. You know, I wasn't there. Everybody has their perspective of what occurred and why she let that person go out the side door from the jury.

But that only dumped him into the hallway where she knew those agents were. So I'm not sure she was trying to help him escape. It is possible she just didn't want the arrest in front of her courtroom where everybody was gathered in the hallway. And I can understand that.

WHITFIELD: So this very public arrest of the judge, is the Trump administration sending a message to judges or to the masses?

SWARTZ: I think she's sending a message to judges that are -- that's passed on to the masses. And that is, you're not safe in court. If you're an illegal alien or an illegal immigrant, and you are in court, you have to worry about being there.

Now that interrupts the flow of criminal justice system because they're not going to show up as witnesses. They're not going to show up as victims. They're not going to show up as defendants. And now the whole system starts to break down.

As far as judges are concerned, they're being forced in a way to cooperate. It is pretty standard for judges not wanting people arrested in their courtroom. I don't think they're going to back off of that. And I think in essence, in a lot of places, you're not allowed to arrest people inside the courthouse, whether you're a fed or whether you're a local police officer. They want these things to take place outside of the courthouse itself. And I have a feeling that that's going to be a part of the confrontation that's going to take place in the future.

WHITFIELD: The Justice Department on Friday also announced criminal charges in the case of a former New Mexico Judge, Joel Cano and his wife, Nancy Cano. The pair was arrested for allegedly tampering with evidence related to the federal investigation of a Venezuelan national. And the criminal complaint says the Venezuelan national has alleged gang ties.

So what common threads do you see in these two very different, but then I guess the similarities you're talking about, a sitting judge and a former judge?

SWARTZ: I think there's a big difference between someone who's actually sitting on the bench handling a calendar, having illegal immigrants in front of them all the time, and it really is almost all the time, and someone who's no longer on the bench and has now decided to become part of the resistance. And I think that's a little bit different.

So if you remove her, the New Mexico judge from the bench, and she's doing something to help someone out to evade the law, the question is going to be, was she representing this person as a lawyer? Was what she was doing really an obstruction of justice or advising a client?

We'll just have to see what happens. But I think there is a difference between someone who used to be on the bench and someone who is on the bench now.

WHITFIELD: A few weeks ago, you expressed concern about how law firms are agreeing to pro bono deals with the White House. What is the big picture you see now, and how this administration is using the judicial branch to leverage its immigration agenda?

SWARTZ: Well, that -- I think that that's what they're asking them to become involved in or to stay out of. The idea was for them not to put the leverage that they have with the judiciary as big law to represent some of the people who have been arrested. That clearly is one of the objectives here.

The other is, and the biggest thing that I'm concerned about, is that now these law firms are going to be forced to represent Mr. Trump in his role as president or otherwise as part of the deal.

[12:25:00]

I think some of them are second-guessing themselves in seeing that four large law firms have won injunctions and that they're going to -- in wiping out any possibility of an executive order. And some may come back in and claim the executive order entered against them is illegal, whether agreed to or not. And I think they're going to try to get out of this.

I don't know about Paul Weiss, but I think some of the other firms may actually come back in and try to get out from under all of this.

WHITFIELD: Oh, interesting. All right.

Jeff Swartz, always good to see you. Thank you.

SWARTZ: Always good to see you, Fred. Have a great day.

WHITFIELD: You too.

All right, coming up, quote, "We've got to be good to Gaza". President Trump says he is pushing Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu on the ongoing blockade of aid to Gaza, as the United Nations says it has run out of food.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:12]

WHITFIELD: All right, during his flight to Italy for the funeral for Pope Francis, President Trump also weighed in on the ongoing war in Gaza as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu continues to block humanitarian aid from entering the war-stricken enclave. The President told reporters on Air Force One that he recently spoke to the Israeli leader and says he pressed Netanyahu on the importance of aid reaching Gaza to help ease the suffering of Palestinian civilians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Gaza came up and I said, you know, we got to be good to Gaza. Those people are -- those people are suffering. We got to be good to Gaza. We'll, we're going to take care of that. There's a very big need for medicine, food and medicine, and we're taking care of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And joining me right now to talk about this is Kadia Goba. She is a political reporter for Semafor. Kadia, great to see you. So is this an about face for the President? Because this is one of the few times too that we've heard him talk about Gaza, about humanitarian aid like this. Do you think these comments will be enough to pressure Netanyahu to lift the blockade of the aid? And is this also a window, a new window into Trump's thinking?

KADIA GOBA, SEMAFOR, POLITICAL REPORTER: Thank you for having me. Yes, it's certainly a different posture from the Trump administration. I mean, this is a President who has said, let all hell break loose. So saying that, or him expressing concern for humanitarian aid in Gaza is certainly new, especially when you can compare it to the previous administration when Joe Biden and Netanyahu were openly disputing about the aid.

And I mean, I think at one point the Biden administration threatened to, you know, cut off their support if they didn't re-engage with aid in -- in Gaza. So, you know, obviously the -- the administration -- the Trump -- Trump is going to the area, to the Middle East next month. So I imagine there are a lot of reports that say he's getting, you know, the two sides are getting closer to an agreement. So I imagine this is something in preparation for what's soon to come.

WHITFIELD: Since taking office, I mean, you know, you've -- you've underscored a bit of it there, but you know, Trump has expressed his desire ultimately for the U.S. to take over Gaza. And early this month, in remarks from the White House alongside Netanyahu, Trump called the Palestinian enclave an incredible piece of important real estate.

And this comes after 160,000 Palestinians have been killed or injured since October 7th, 2023. Hundreds of thousands more have been displaced. So is there, I guess, are we on the precipice of more clarity of perhaps what Trump's goals are for Gaza?

GOBA: I think this is certainly -- I think we can only point to that we are probably on the precipice of a ceasefire or some kind of agreement between the two. Whether or not this spawns those plans he initially talked about in terms of making -- remaking Gaza, I'm very unclear about. But I think this does signal that there is -- there are definitely intense talks going on ahead of a possible ceasefire.

WHITFIELD: OK. Let's shift gears a bit because this week, President Trump's embattled Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, had to defend himself again for another controversy involving the use of a commercial app to discuss detailed plans about a military operation in Yemen. Sources tell CNN that the second group chat on Signal included Hegseth's wife, lawyer, and brother. So for now, President Trump is standing by Hegseth. But Democratic lawmakers are turning up the heat and demanding information on these chats. Where do things stand in terms of whether he has full support by the President?

GOBA: Yes. It's -- it's really hard to tell. I mean, I think the point -- the thing to look at right now is whether or not Republicans themselves start coming out against Hegseth. I think there's only one person at this point. And that was a Representative Don Bacon from Nebraska, who said that is probably -- he's probably not suitable for the position.

So what -- what we will see, as you mentioned, is a bunch of Democrats coming out. Most recently, I wrote about a group of national security Democrats who had concerns about all the recent firings and reorganize -- reorganizing of staff. You know, there's certain protocol that the Pentagon has once a senior staff is no longer there.

[12:35:10]

They're -- they have to have certain civilian members of staff there. And there's a concern of like, who's going to be -- who's going to replace those people? Is there a contingency plan on replacing -- replacing those people? Is there a contingency plan in case there is some kind of, you know, breakout or national emergency? Who, you know, gives the go ahead or who acts as an intermediary between actual officials of the Pentagon?

So there are a different -- a bunch of different concerns. And I think you'll see Democrats definitely ratchet up their messaging around this. But again, I think the heat comes when Republicans actually -- actually lash out. And so far, that's been very minimal.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kadia Goba, thank you so much.

GOBA: Thanks for having me.

WHITFIELD: All right, still ahead, large crowds continuing to gather in Rome at this hour, both inside St. Peter's Square and outside the church where Pope Francis is buried. This as the attention turns to the cardinals who could be picked as his successor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:41:10]

WHITFIELD: Today, mourners around the world said a final farewell to Pope Francis. Thousands gathered in Rome to see the pontiff's last journey to his resting place at St. Mary Maggiore's Basilica.

In Buenos Aires, the birthplace of the pope, mourners attended a mass to celebrate his life there and his legacy around the world. And while here in the United States, some of the faithful gathered at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City for a special funeral mass. CNN's Brynn Gingras is joining us now from outside the cathedral in New York. So Brynn, what was the mood like?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, listen, Fred, that mass is still happening right now. Behind me is the cathedral, and it might be a little bit difficult to see, but there is still a line of people who are trying to get in for that mass that began at about 12 o'clock. I've been following along on a live stream, and the Archbishop Caccia, who is overseeing this mass, he just finished with his homily talking about who Pope Francis was, not only as a pope, but as a person.

He actually has a very special connection to Pope Francis because he was appointed in 2019 the permanent observer of the Holy See to the United Nations. So he talked a little bit about his connection with Pope Francis and what he meant to him, but also reflecting on Pope Francis and him, you know, how he served not just Christians and Catholics all around this globe, but also how he united people of all different faiths and all different nationalities. And he says that's exactly what we're seeing at this memorial mass right now inside the cathedral.

And listen, we talked to some of those people who are standing in line trying to get in for the 12 o'clock starting of the mass. One person we talked to put it quite, you know, very pointedly said, I'm looking for closure. I want you to take a listen to what others were saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TANYA BROWN, ATTENDING POPE FRANCIS FUNERAL MASS AT ST. PATRICK'S CATHEDRAL: I've just always loved Pope Francis. I've watched every Christmas Eve until the very end of that sermon. It's phenomenal. And I just love how he was such People's Pope. He was kind. He -- he always seemed to be the most like Jesus. I -- I believe that, you know, he's the closest thing to Jesus on earth until a few days ago. So I think that's the most special part.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: Yes, you can see a lot of people, you know, coming here to the cathedral, finding it the one place in New York City to where they could really reflect on Pope Francis, who this person was and what he meant to not only them, but the entire world. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right. Brynn Gingras, thank you so much.

So after nine days of mourning, attention will turn to who will become the next pontiff. The conclave to select a new pope is expected to begin as soon as May 6th. Here now to talk about all of this is CNN Vatican analyst Father Edward Beck. Hello, Father. Great to see you. So I'd love to hear your impressions after the world witnessed a very solemn day.

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, yes, I had some mix of emotions today, Fred. I mean, I was sad at who we were losing. I was happy for him that he wasn't suffering and struggling anymore and that he's now finally enjoying his eternal reward, eternal rest. And yet I was also hopeful that the legacy that he has built, that was built right into that funeral service will continue.

There were so many beautiful moments of simplicity in the midst of all of that grandeur --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BECK: -- and all of that pomp and circumstance that I know those moments were probably the most important to Pope Francis.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And -- and he crafted that, right, before his passing. I mean, so he wanted to make sure that -- that simplicity was woven throughout all the formalities here. But, you know, let's talk about, too, a rather spontaneous moment that happened during the funeral coverage. And we heard on the air you talking about how it struck you when the gospel book was sitting atop the coffin, the simple coffin that the pontiff selected, and that pages were blowing in the wind. What do you believe that was symbolic of or potentially even foreshadowed?

[12:45:33]

BECK: Well, when I watched that, Fred, the coffin did indeed look so simple and small in the midst of all of that ornate grandeur. And suddenly the book of the Gospels that this man beneath those pages lived by word and gesture were just floating over him, that the pages were turning as if this was the story of this man's life. And that wasn't orchestrated. And thank God there was a breeze in Rome. But for me, it was the breath of the Holy Spirit saying, job well done, my servant. You lived these words. This is your creed. And it was just the most beautiful part of the whole ceremony, I think, for me.

WHITFIELD: And then another very big something before the funeral. The Pope, you know, throughout his leadership had been advocating for peace, even saying at least once that he wanted to help broker peace between Ukraine and Russia. So what is the promise that potentially you might see in that meeting that took place between Trump and Ukraine's Zelenskyy before this funeral, sitting on those, you know, metal chairs and -- and having what seemed to be a very intimate conversation?

BECK: Well, I have a few thoughts about that. I would love to believe that this is the first miracle of the future St. Francis the Pope. And who knows? It may be. A second thought is the times that I've seen shares like that in a church are when people are going to confession. And as they were leaning toward each other, I actually had this image. What would they be confessing? What would they be asking forgiveness for or God's grace for?

And I'm also hoping for that moment. I was a little dismayed that the headlines then became about this meeting with Trump and Zelenskyy. Even you served the headlines about Pope Francis's funeral and the negative side of me or the more pessimistic side said once again, our President is stealing the headlines with this impromptu meeting.

And he did say that after that meeting, he told Zelenskyy he'd meet him again. And he didn't. He left. He went back to Washington. So we'll see what comes of it, I really hope. And his words about Gaza today, the President were very hopeful as well. I'd love to believe that these are moments of conversion and maybe being touched by the goodness of this man and what he witnessed really inspired him. And I'm praying that that's the case. And I want to -- I want to hold on to that optimism.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Aren't we all? And I think the posture, just looking at least at the posture of them, they are both leaning into one another. So that -- that has to be something good. All right. Father Edward Beck, thank you so much.

BECK: Thank you, Fred.

[12:48:31]

WHITFIELD: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, the NFL draft returns for its third and final day of picks. The big story after the first few days has centered on the saga of Colorado quarterback, Shedeur Sanders, widely projected as one of the top quarterback prospects in this year's draft. Shockingly, Sanders was still available entering the fourth round, which just got underway at noon Eastern Time. CNN's Andy Scholes is joining us right now. I mean, ouch, this -- this is kind of painful.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: I mean, Fredricka, this is arguably the biggest fall in NFL draft history. You know, over the years, we've seen the likes of Aaron Rodgers, Brady Quinn, Will Levis a couple of years ago fall down the draft board. But they were still picked relatively high. You know, there were a lot of mock drafts that had Shedeur Sanders going second overall to the Browns or third overall to the Giants.

He didn't even get picked in the second or third rounds. And it's really sparked this huge debate about what is going on here. You know, Shedeur is one of the most accurate quarterbacks in all of college football over the last couple of years.

He doesn't wow people with his arm strength or his escapability. But, you know, most people thought he was at least a minimum of a top three-round draft pick. But here we are in round four. He is still unpicked. And it sparked a big debate about what's going on. Is it his famous family that's keeping teams shying away from drafting him? Even President Trump weighing in on this from Italy.

He posted on Truth Social yesterday, you know, what is wrong with NFL owners? He even said, are they stupid? Trump went on to, you know, say he's very fond of Shedeur's father, Deion. And he said, Shedeur should be picked immediately by a team that wants to win. Now, through all this, Shedeur has tried to stay positive.

He tweeted a couple of times as well. Yesterday, after not getting picked in the second or third rounds, he said, thank you, God, for everything. He also said, another day, another opportunity to get a chance to play the game I love. Thank you, God. Hashtag legendary.

[12:55:10]

Now, Fredricka, as I mentioned, we are in the fourth round. There's already been a lot of five quarterbacks taken in -- in round one through three. Who's still looking for a quarterback? When could Shedeur get taken? Well, you got the Steelers with the 21st pick in the fourth round.

Maybe they take Shedeur. You've got the Raiders down at pick 33 in the fourth round. They're a possibility. But, Fredricka, the key thing here is, at this point, people aren't drafting quarterbacks in the fourth, fifth, sixth round, thinking this guy is our future starter. You know, this is when you're picking a quarterback to potentially be a backup.

So it -- it's possible that just everyone was talking Shedeur up, thinking he was going to be this high draft pick. In the meantime, all these NFL teams just didn't see it that way.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Well, in all this, you do want to know, what is his frame of mind right now? I mean, we've looked at those live pictures. You see his dad. But this is awkward and tough. All right. Andy Scholes, thank you so much. We could go on forever on this, but we can't. SCHOLES: Yes.

WHITFIELD: So thanks for joining me.

SCHOLES: All right.

WHITFIELD: All right. President Trump met with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy inside the Vatican today, minutes before the funeral of Pope Francis. What Zelenskyy is saying about that moment, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)