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Pope Francis Laid To Rest After Vatican Funeral Service; Cardinals Prepare For Conclave After Funeral Service For Pope Francis; Trump And Zelenskyy Hold Talks Inside Vatican; Trump Questions Whether Putin Wants Peace After Zelenskyy Meeting; Judge Charged With Allegedly Obstructing Immigration Agents; Ahead Of Funeral; Former New Mexico Judge And Wife Arrested, Accused Of Tampering With Evidence; States May Face New Hurdles For Federal Disaster Aid; Leaked Proposal Defunds Suicide Lifeline For LGBTQ Plus Youth; New Book Investigates Dangers Of Horse Racing. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 26, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:48]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin this hour with Catholic faithful and millions of others around the world saying their final goodbyes to Pope Francis. The funeral at the Vatican was filled with tradition, religious rites and a few surprises for the hundreds of thousands in attendance.

CNN's Clarissa Ward has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The bells echoed through Vatican City. A final call to grieve as Pope Francis was laid to rest. Under a spotless sky hundreds of thousands of mourners gathered in Saint Peters Square to say goodbye. From all corners of the world, presidents, priests, pilgrims and the public. The Pope chose to be buried in a simple wooden coffin, testament to the humble life Francis led.

CARDINAL GIOVANNI BATTISTA RE, DEAN OF THE COLLEGE OF CARDINALS (through translator): Despite his frailty and suffering towards the end, Pope Francis chose to follow this path of self-giving until the last day of his earthly life.

WARD: In his homily, Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re paid tribute to Francis's extraordinary legacy.

RE (through translator): He was a Pope amongst the people with an open heart towards everyone. He was also a Pope attentive to the signs of the times.

WARD: The Vatican says more than 250,000 people packed the square.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to show our love for our Pope, Pope Francis. This is the only way that we can show to him our love and our prayer.

WARD: Some remembered his words. Others how he made them feel.

LARA, RESIDENT FROM MALTA: He was not afraid to speak. And, according to me, in my opinion, he was always ready to give a voice to the voiceless.

WARD: All now feel the weight of his absence.

Carried through the hallowed halls of Saint Peter's Basilica, Pope Francis's coffin was prepared for its last journey, a historic one, through the city he served, and he left one final surprise. His coffin transported not in a hearse, but in his famous Popemobile.

As the convoy crossed through Rome, some 150,000 mourners lined the streets, all hoping to catch a final glimpse of a Pope they revered.

In another break from centuries of tradition, his coffin was laid to rest in the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore. Awaiting him on the steps a group of marginalized, invited specifically by the Pope to be among the last to say goodbye. He was then buried in a private ceremony.

His papacy is now over, but it has left behind a mark that will not fade.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And with the papacy of Pope Francis now at an end, cardinals gathered at the Vatican will soon hold a conclave to determine who will become the next pontiff.

CNN's Barbie Latza Nadeau is live for us in Rome.

And Barbie, it's nightfall and still lots of people behind you there. Cardinals holding prayer services right now?

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's going to be saying the rosary service. And this is the prayer that they said every night that he was in the hospital and every night after his death and before his funeral. And so we've got a lot of people gathered here. The square is not packed, but it's been a pretty busy day for a lot of these people who are mourning the Pope.

And then, you know, tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. here, the public can go file past his tomb here inside the church of Santa Maria Maggiore, which was his favorite church in Rome. It's the church he visited more than 100 times during the 12 years of his papacy. Always before and after he took a foreign trip or a trip even within Italy. And the last time he visited this church alive was the day he got out of the hospital on March 23rd, where he had spent five weeks with double pneumonia.

[15:05:06] So it's a very emotional time, especially for the people who live around here, who really feel privileged to have Pope Francis, such a wonderfully loved person, in their basilica. But of course, now all eyes are on the Sistine Chapel chimney once that's built next week, when that will be looking for black or white smoke. White smoke, of course, will herald the election of a new Pope.

The conclave date we're expecting to understand when that is, probably tomorrow we'll get that date, and then it's just going to be about politicking and betting and wondering who's going to lead the Catholic Church going forward, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Yes, it's quite the process.

Barbie Latza Nadeau, thank you so much.

We're also following dramatic developments on the sidelines of Pope Francis's funeral involving President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. The two meeting face to face following a tumultuous few days that saw escalating Russian attacks on Ukraine's capital of Kyiv and a high stakes meeting between U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff and Russian president Vladimir Putin.

CNN's Nic Robertson takes a look through the surprise meeting between Trump and Zelenskyy just before the Pope's funeral was about to get underway.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: You're looking here at images of an event we didn't know was going to happen, a meeting between U.S. President Donald Trump, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. A meeting on the margins of Pope Francis's funeral. They're sitting inside the Vatican, inside Saint Peter's Basilica, and joining them there, there's Emmanuel Macron, the French president, Keir Starmer, the British prime minister.

Ukrainian officials say the meeting with President Trump was very productive, lasted about 15 minutes. But in one of the images there, Emmanuel Macron has his hand on Vladimir Zelenskyy's shoulders. Very powerful image. Remembering that just a few months ago, back in February, the last time President Zelenskyy met President Trump, it was a tempestuous meeting. The U.S. president pressuring to accept peace on terms he didn't want to accept. Telling him that he wasn't appreciative enough of the U.S. support. A tempestuous meeting.

Zelenskyy, now having the backing of the French president, the British prime minister in those talks. And the symbolism writ larger than even just being in the Vatican while Pope Francis's funeral is being prepared, a Pope who wanted peace in Ukraine, who was all about peace in his life, that this meeting should take place. So symbolic.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Let's get more now on the developments to with Kevin Liptak, CNN senior White House reporter.

Kevin, after this meeting, President Trump questioned whether Russian President Vladimir Putin really wants peace. He did so in his social media posting. What more can you say?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. The president now on his way back to New Jersey here, where I am from Rome. And it was striking to see what the president posting on social media just in the hours after that meeting with Zelenskyy, questioning really whether the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, is actually interested in trying to reach a peace deal and pointing back to the events of last week, this air assault that Russia undertook on Kyiv.

It was the deadliest, most striking air assault on the Ukrainian capital in about nine months. And the president wrote, there was no reason for Putin to be shooting missiles into civilian areas, cities and towns over the last few days. And the president went on to say, it makes me think that maybe he doesn't want to stop the war. He's just tapping me along and has to be dealt with differently through banking or secondary sanctions.

And so the president really there putting voice to concerns that a lot of European officials and European leaders have had over the last several months, that President Putin could just be playing for time here, essentially dragging out these negotiations that President Trump had been hoping would lead to a resolution of this conflict. Of course, that hasn't happened so far. And the president's frustration has been growing.

And, you know, for the most part, he has been directing his anger towards Zelenskyy. You saw the Oval Office meeting even just in the last week. The president said that he was no fan of Zelenskyy. He accused him of trying to prolong the conflict because he wasn't signing on to this American proposal, which would essentially cede the Ukrainian territory that Russia has seized over the course of this conflict to Moscow.

And it would also include American recognition of Crimea as Russian. That was the peninsula that Moscow illegally seized back in 2014. Now the president is striking a very different tone, suggesting potentially that Putin could also be part of the problem here, and saying that he doesn't think that he is necessarily on board with any kind of peace plan.

[15:10:13]

That's a very different tone than we heard from the president even as recently as Thursday. You know, I was in the Cabinet room with him, and I asked the president directly whether he thought President Putin still wanted to achieve a peace and the president did say yes. He thought both sides of this conflict were interested in reaching a resolution.

Now the president is saying something very different, and it's so notable it had occurred after that very intense looking meeting between the president and Zelenskyy inside Saint Peter's Basilica. You know, sitting knee to knee, no aides present at all for those talks. And so clearly, it appears as if Zelenskyy has had an effect on the president's thinking here. And it will be just very important to see how that develops as the president has said, that he has a deadline for trying to reach this deal.

He hasn't said specifically what that deadline is, but certainly he is in a hurry now, as the 100-day marker of his presidency approaches to try and bring this conflict to a resolution.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kevin Liptak, thank you so much.

Let's talk more about all of this. Stephen Collinson is with us. He is a CNN politics senior reporter.

So good to see you, Stephen. So, I mean, yes, that was striking, right, that moment before the funeral. These two men, no barriers, singular chairs for each of them, seemingly no one really around them except to, you know, initially get them together. It was a 15-minute meeting. And apparently, you know, the White House is describing it as productive.

What do you make of how this came to be? There you see as many people, you know, who are there, who perhaps helped choreograph this, get it together. But if you just read the body language of the two leaning in, seemingly very engaged, what should people make of this?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Well, it is an extraordinary picture and a poignant one, given the fact that the Pope was a critic of President Trump and has also been calling for peace in Ukraine for a long time. You know, if that is a breakthrough moment, this will come to be seen as an iconic moment and an iconic photograph.

I did also find it very interesting that Keir Starmer, the British prime minister, and Emmanuel Macron, the French president, were there, you know, visibly supporting Zelenskyy. That is the --

WHITFIELD: With the hand on the shoulder. Yes.

COLLINSON: That's right. I mean, that is the personification of some of the stakes in this drive for peace, because you've got the Europeans who have been stalwart in supporting Zelenskyy, trying to get the president round to Zelenskyy's way of thinking. And the White House appears to have drawn up a peace plan that seems to favor a lot more the Russian position. So that was poignant in many ways that picture.

I don't think we can really say until the days ahead, until we see what happens, whether it was significant and it was as productive as the White House said.

WHITFIELD: Mm-hmm. President Trump, did, you know, revealed a little bit, you know, on his social media posting today and by criticizing Vladimir Putin for Russia's attacks on Ukraine this week. Criticism of Putin isn't something you usually hear from him. But he also seemed to be wondering out loud through this post, you know, whether Putin is just, I'm quoting him, you know, tapping me along.

Is there something real genuine to this realization, an admission, even if you will?

COLLINSON: I think experience tells us that not to make too much of any one singular thing that the president says because he often reverses himself on this issue, too. Sometimes he's offered some fairly mild criticism of Putin than hours or days later he seems to walk it back. I think it does get to an interesting point here. I think we have to take the president's statements at face value that he wants to stop the killing in Ukraine. He's talked about it a lot and about the price of this war.

But the question becomes, if a peace deal is not available and many people believe what the president said there, that Putin doesn't want to have a peace deal right now, the war is going quite well for him. And even if there is a peace deal, he would continue to pressure Ukraine. So if a peace deal is not available, does the president then take some steps to increase leverage on Putin? He's talking about secondary sanctions there.

That is putting sanctions on nations like India who are continuing to buy Russian oil and therefore bankrolling this war. Would he, for example, put more pressure on China, with which the United States is involved in the trade war?

[15:15:01]

So I think if he starts to back up his criticisms of Putin with concrete steps, that's one thing. The thing that a lot of people worry about is if there is not a peace deal soon, that President Trump might just decide to walk away from the war entirely. It would continue to go on, and Ukraine would be even more vulnerable without continued U.S. support.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Prior to today's meeting, and even prior to, you know, the post from the president today, you actually wrote, you know, some analysis on CNN.com where you write that Trump's own strange and tepid wording illustrates his one-sided Ukraine peace plan. I mean, people have been feeling that he definitely seems to have deference, you know, to Russia.

Does -- is there any reason to believe that Trump has any real leverage here? You know, does -- can he be at all influential? He seems to say by his deal-making, he seems to be sending a message that he does, that he does have leverage, but really, does he?

COLLINSON: I mean, I think he has some leverage. It's the question, I think, of whether he wants to use it. I think the assumption the White House has been that Putin would be so keen to have an expanded relationship with the United States, to be let back into the global political system, if you like, because he's been a pariah since the start of the Ukrainian war and the invasion, that he would therefore see that as so valuable that he would move towards the president's position on the need to end this war. But the war is existential for Putin and his rule. So it's not at all

clear that he's going to go for that package of U.S. incentives. Now I think the president could use those sanctions if he really wanted to. It does seem a little bit unlikely the fact that he's not done so soon. And in that story, I talk about how often the president criticizes the results of the war. He talks about how bad it is for civilians.

Very infrequently does the administration actually blame Putin for starting the war. It's almost like the missiles arrive in Kyiv of their own accord. Not that the Russian government fired them into civilian areas. So I think if the administration wanted, it could be a lot more critical of the Russian position. That's why a lot of people believe that eventually Trump just wants to stop the war. If it stops now, it stops on Russian terms and therefore the invasion itself and the Russian seizure of Ukrainian territory will end up being validated. So there are some really big stakes about how this ends.

WHITFIELD: Mm-hmm. All right. Stephen Collinson, thank you so much.

COLLINSON: Thanks.

WHITFIELD: Coming up protesters are set to rally in Milwaukee again this afternoon after a Wisconsin judge is arrested for allegedly helping an undocumented immigrant avoid arrest. And a former New Mexico judge and his wife are arrested on charges of tampering with evidence linked to a suspected gang member.

Plus, Trump officials discuss making it much harder for local communities to qualify for federal disaster assistance. Details on the changes that could start this hurricane season.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:23:58]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROTESTERS: We'll not be intimidated. We will not be intimidated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Protesters rallied in Milwaukee Friday after a Wisconsin judge was arrested and charged in federal court for allegedly helping an undocumented immigrant avoid arrest. Judge Hannah Dugan faces two charges for obstruction and concealing the individual from arrest.

CNN's Whitney Wild explains how this all unfolded.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Unsealed court records are providing much more detail about what led up to Judge Dugan's arrest, and according to the FBI, this actually started April 18th when several federal law enforcement agents arrived at her court because she was set to hear a case involving a man named Eduardo Flores-Ruiz.

According to the FBI, he had already been deported once. They were moving forward with an administrative warrant to bring him into custody on an immigration administrative warrant. When Judge Dugan learned that federal law enforcement was there to arrest Flores-Ruiz, she became very upset, and in fact, pulled some of those federal agents aside, and with the chief judge, got on the phone, where, as a group, the chief judge insisted that federal law enforcement only take Flores-Ruiz into custody in the public areas of the court, which is something that those federal agents agreed to.

And this is important because the FBI says, after that, Judge Dugan went back into the courtroom, and as Flores-Ruiz and his attorney were leaving out of the door that would have led them to a public part of the courthouse, instead, according to the affidavit, she said something to the effect of, wait, come with me, and led them out the jury door, which would lead to a private area of the courthouse.

That created a significant hurdle for federal law enforcement. They ended up getting into a foot chase with Flores-Ruiz. They eventually did bring him into custody. But now the FBI is saying that that was an obstruction of justice. And so they took Judge Dugan into custody Friday morning. As she appeared in court Friday before noon, she was released.

[15:25:01]

But, while this represents a major escalation by the Trump DOJ, it is not altogether surprising because they have made clear from the outset that they are prepared to bring the full force of the law against anyone, and that includes state and local officials, anyone that they perceive as standing in their way to enforce these national immigration laws.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Whitney Wild, thanks so much.

A statement was released on behalf of Judge Dugan saying she will, I'm quoting now, "defend herself vigorously and looks forward to being exonerated," end quote.

The Justice Department on Friday also announced criminal charges against a former judge in New Mexico and his wife. The pair were arrested for allegedly tampering with evidence related to the federal investigation of a Venezuelan national.

CNN correspondent Julia Vargas Jones has more details for us.

Walk us through this, Julia.

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, it started in January with a tip that undocumented migrants were living on a judge's property in Las Cruces, New Mexico, and in possession of firearms. That home belonged to the former county judge, Jose Luis Cano, and his wife, Nancy Cano. Authorities allege in court documents that one of the people living on the property was Cristian Ortega Lopez, who they say is a member of the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua.

In the complaint, there are multiple photos and videos of Ortega Lopez in what appears to be a shooting range in the area, holding handguns, assault style rifles and ammunition. All of this in those images you see right there. Investigators say that it was through these photos that you see in those videos that they identified tattoos and clothing and other hand gestures that they say are commonly associated with Tren de Aragua, saying that that is what provided strong enough evidence of his potential connection to the gang.

Judge Cano, on his part, denies ever knowing of the possible gang affiliation, writing in a letter to the court obtained by CNN affiliate station, KOAT, let me be as crystal clear as possible, the very first time I ever heard that the men could possibly have any association with Tren de Aragua was when I was informed of that by the agents on the day of the raid. But federal authorities also claim that the judge admitted to smashing a cell phone with a hammer because it could have had photos that would reflect negatively on Ortega Lopez and that his wife consulted with this alleged gang member over how to delete Facebook posts.

Judge Cano is now charged with tampering with evidence, while his wife is charged with conspiracy to tamper with evidence. And we have reached out to their attorney for comment. And although he resigned in March after the case first came to light, Fred, this week a New Mexico Supreme Court ordered Cano to never run for judicial office in the future. This, of course, as U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi Said this is part of her effort to go after judges seen as hindering the administration's immigration policy -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Julia Vargas Jones, thanks so much.

Virginia Giuffre, one of the most prominent survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's sex crimes, has died by suicide. Police say emergency services found her unresponsive in her home last night. She was pronounced dead at the scene. In 2019, Virginia Giuffre publicly alleged that Jeffrey Epstein trafficked her when she was just 17 years old, saying Epstein forced her to have sex with his high profile friends, including Britain's Prince Andrew.

Prince Andrew has repeatedly denied those claims. Giuffre's family releasing a statement saying in part, "She lost her life to suicide after being a lifelong victim of sexual abuse and sex trafficking. Virginia was a fierce warrior in the fight against sexual abuse and sex trafficking. She was the light that lifted so many survivors. In the end, the toll of abuse is so heavy that it became unbearable for Virginia to handle its weight."

Virginia Giuffre was a mother of three. She was 41 years old.

If you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts or mental health matters, please call or text the crisis lifeline at 988.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:33:46] WHITFIELD: Nineteen states who have refused to comply with the Trump administration's directive to end diversity, equity and inclusion programs in public schools are filing legal action against the administration. The lawsuit seeks to block the Department of Education from withholding money from schools with DEI initiatives. This comes a day after three judges ruled against the Trump administration in related cases.

Trump emergency management officials are discussing reforms that would make it a lot tougher for communities to qualify for federal disaster assistance. CNN has obtained a memo that lays out some of those reforms for the Trump administration to follow.

CNN's Gabe Cohen explains how it lines up with an executive order the president signed during his first days in office, which pushes more responsibility for disaster response onto the states.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Trump has made it clear he wants to shift more responsibility for disaster response and recovery to the states. Well, now we've obtained a memo that gives us a much better sense of what that could look like. I say could because to be clear this is just a proposal. But this is a memo that was sent up by FEMA's acting administrator, a Trump appointee, with recommendations for the president to potentially implement starting this hurricane season that would dramatically cut down the number of disaster declarations that get approved by the president and the amount of federal dollars that go out the door to states and communities hit by storms.

[15:35:19]

Now, the memo lays out several recommendations, like denying all disaster declarations for snowstorms, for example. But by far the biggest piece of this is a proposal to quadruple the threshold of damage needed to qualify for federal disaster assistance.

Now, what that would mean is that a community, a state, would have to suffer four times as much damage as they currently do from a storm in order to qualify for federal aid. And that would focus federal funds almost exclusively on large scale storms like Hurricane Katrina or Hurricane Helene. And it would leave states to handle and to pay for smaller storms on their own.

Now, the idea of raising that threshold really isn't controversial in and of itself. I've talked to top FEMA officials from the Biden and Obama administrations who told me, frankly, they think the threshold should be raised, that the federal government has been bailing out too many communities for storms that the state should really help handle. But raising it fourfold ahead of hurricane season?

Well, that could pose serious problems to states who have not budgeted or prepared for that. One state emergency official told us the proposal is, quote, "alarming." Another said, quote, "That is a massive increase. We are fully anticipating that states are going to have to take on a larger burden to respond to emergencies. We just need some clarity. We're trying to develop a path forward without really knowing what the path looks like."

Now, at this point, there's no clear indication that these guidelines are being followed. But I do want to mention that President Trump recently rejected a request from Washington state for additional assistance after a bomb cyclone that hit last year. Their damage was more than twice the current threshold. And at this point, the White House and FEMA have not said why Washington state was rejected despite that fact.

Gabe Cohen, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up, a leaked budget proposal suggests the Trump administration could make a major change to the 988 suicide and crisis lifeline, and what this could also mean for the LGBTQ Plus community.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:42:06]

WHITFIELD: A leaked budget proposal suggests that the Trump administration is considering making a major change to the 988 suicide and crisis lifeline. The document mentions eliminating the LGBTQ Plus service option.

CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH CORRESPONDENT: It is a preliminary memo dated April 10th that leaked last week that mentions eliminating funding for 988 LGBTQ Plus specialized service. Now, we don't know whether any decisions have been made around this, but the document gives us some insight into the conversations that may be happening. And what I mean by specialized services, there are subnetworks within the 988 lifeline.

So when you dial 988 to reach someone for help, you are given the option to press one to reach the veterans crisis line, press two to reach a Spanish speaking counselor, or press three to reach specialized services for LGBTQ Plus people under age 25. It's estimated that since 988 officially launched as a lifeline in 2022, more than 14.5 million people have called, texted or sent chat messages to the number. Among those people, nearly 1.3 million, were routed to the LGBTQ Plus specialized service.

So far, LGBTQ advocacy groups say that they're concerned about this subnetwork possibly retiring. The nonprofit, the Trevor Project, put out a news release earlier this week. Its CEO, James Black, said, quote, "Ending the 988 Suicide and Crisis lifelines, LGBTQ Plus youth specialized services, will not just strip away access from millions of LGBTQ Plus kids and teens, it will put their lives at risk," end quote.

And the Trevor Project is a subcontractor of 988. The group also says that LGBTQ Plus youth are about four times more likely to consider suicide compared with their peers. And CDC data shows that in 2021, more than a quarter of high school students identifying as lesbian, gay or bisexual reported attempting suicide in the prior 12 months.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Jacqueline Howard, thank you so much.

All right. Coming up, it's a crisis for one of America's most iconic sports. Horses dying on the racetrack. Next, a new book looks at what's being g done about it.

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[15:49:13]

WHITFIELD: In one week, the most exciting two minutes in sports takes place at Churchill Downs. The Kentucky Derby is celebrating its 151st race, featuring some of the fastest thoroughbreds in the world running for the roses.

Horse racing as a sport has been mired in scandal in recent history, including deaths of racehorses. Well, now, a new book written by one of our colleagues is delving into why. The book, "Death of a Racehorse," written by my colleague, CNN senior reporter Katie Bo Lillis. She's with us now.

Katie Bo, great to see you and congratulations on your book.

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: So what inspired you to take such a hard look at this sport?

LILLIS: Well, I actually used to work in thoroughbred horse racing in a past life starting with summer jobs when I was in high school and through college. and then for a few years into my 20s.

[15:50:04]

And I love the sport. And I was watching some of these headlines about deaths on the racetrack. And I thought there's just more here that people don't understand. This is a more complex issue. And I can tell this story.

WHITFIELD: So back in 2023, that's a pretty notable year because at least 12 horses died at Churchill Downs, either days before or after the race. So through an investigation, there was no, you know, causal relationship between the horse deaths and the track, according to a lot of investigators. So what is causing horses to either break their legs, or, you know, die or be euthanized or what's going on?

LILLIS: Yes. Look, Fredricka, horses breaking their legs and then subsequently having to be euthanized during races, this is such a complex problem that the industry is really struggling to fix. It's impossible to pinpoint a single reason why a given horse breaks down. But what we do know is that there are lots of different risk factors that can predispose a horse to a fatal injury. Everything from the track surface, how the horse was trained leading up to the race, even how he was trained years before as a young horse, and figuring out how all of these factors might combine to put a horse at risk is something that groups in the industry are trying to use data analytics to better understand and prevent.

The good news is that things have actually gotten a lot better since 2023. There was a new federal law mandating uniform safety and medication regulation, including increased veterinary oversight, that took effect that year. And since then, there's been this huge drop in fatalities. I'm talking 27 percent in just one year.

WHITFIELD: That's pretty significant. And the sport has also been embroiled in a doping scandal for several years. Is that still an issue, a problem?

LILLIS: Well, we know it happens because in 2020, the Justice Department charged dozens of vets and trainers up and down the East Coast after this big FBI investigation into doping that I reported on really heavily in the book. One trainer in particular was found to be giving an illegally made mimic of EPO, the same blood doping drug that Lance Armstrong admitted to using that was designed to be invisible on drug testing.

But cracking down on this kind of drug is really hard because of the lab equipment isn't calibrated to look for a specific drug, it literally wont see it. So just like in human sports, it's impossible to know how widespread doping is. But it's really important to understand that most of the time when you see a headline about a trainer failing a drug test like Bob Baffert after the 2021 Kentucky Derby, it's not for doping.

There's this whole second class of drugs that are totally legal for training. Things like joint injections and anti-inflammatories, the same kinds of medications that human athletes take. But you're not supposed to have them in a horse's system on the day of a race.

WHITFIELD: Mm-hmm. Is there more being done to try to keep these horses safe, the industry safe?

LILLIS: Yes. Look there is -- there are a great number of people in thoroughbred horse racing that are working really, really hard to try to improve the welfare and the safety for these animals. But the fundamental issue that the racing industry has is that it is an industry. It's not a sport. And that creates a sort of automatic conflict of interest for the horses that are competing in these races.

And so I write in the book that one of the big things that the industry needs to do, either through increased regulation or through a cultural change, is to do a better job of essentially insulating these animals from kind of the brute force of the marketplace, because at the end of the day, these animals have a lot more in common with livestock than they do with athletes or pets. And we accept the use of livestock in this country for our own benefit, but with limitations put in place for welfare -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Very fascinating. Congrats again on the book. Katie Bo Lillis, appreciate it.

LILLIS: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Eva Longoria looks at how Spain went from culinary obscurity to world class food destination. First stop, Barcelona and the Catalonia region. "EVA LONGORIA SEARCHING FOR SPAIN" Sunday night, 9:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

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[15:58:57]

WHITFIELD: All right. Next week will mark President Trump's first 100 days back in office. By all accounts, he has moved with astonishing speed to issue a record number of executive actions impacting immigration, the economy, and empowering his biggest donor, Elon Musk, as the head of the Department of Government Efficiency.

Well, this week on "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER," CNN anchor Abby Phillip takes a comprehensive look at 100 days of Trump. Here's a preview.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Should I get in?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It really is unprecedented to see someone who has no accountability, really, to the American public. He hasn't been elected but also this conflict of interest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Musk is controlling a government that pays him billions of dollars. Nothing like that has ever happened in the history of the country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has this great amount of power over these federal agencies, the very agencies that regulate his businesses.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: Did anybody in the transition team raise that as a red flag?

BRYAN LANZA, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Everybody knew there'd be a tremendous amount of more scrutiny in the process. And that scrutiny is welcomed. But the transparency behind it is at a level you haven't seen.

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