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World Leaders And Faithful Gather For Pope's Funeral; Hours Away From Pope Francis' Funeral In St. Peter's Square; Trump Says He'll Meet With "Some People" While In Rome. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired April 26, 2025 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: -- with us this evening.

EVGENY AFINEEVSKY, DIRECTOR, "FRANCESCO": Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

COATES: Thank you all for watching. The funeral of Pope Francis begins at 03:00 a.m. Eastern, but CNN's coverage, well, that continues right now.

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ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from the United States and all around the world. I'm Erica Hill in New York. It is 06:00 a.m. right now at the Vatican, where mourners are preparing to say a final goodbye to Pope Francis. You see the light just beginning to fill the sky there in these live pictures coming to out of Vatican City. The funeral mass for Pope Francis set to begin at 10:00 a.m. local time.

And as we do get closer to that moment, crowds and mourners are expected to fill the streets surrounding St. Peter's Square. Also, of course, arriving world leaders and dignitaries, including U.S. President Donald Trump and the First Lady, Melania Trump, who arrived several hours ago. Over the past several days, some 250,000 people filed through St. Peter's Basilica to pay their final respects to the People's Pope. A group of cardinals sealing the Pope's coffin on Friday night. It's a private rite which officially ends the three-day period of his body lying in state. As part of this Pope's push to simplify his funeral, he will be buried in a simple wooden coffin, and that will be at Rome's Basilica of St. Mary Major.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is live in Rome and joins us now. Ben, it looks like the light just sort of starting to come in behind you there, as everyone begins to prepare for this final goodbye, just a few hours from now.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We're four hours away from the beginning of the funeral, Erica, but what we saw, in fact, about 04:30 in the morning, local time, there are already people coming to this area around the Vatican. They haven't been let in yet. Security is holding them back, but we are expecting massive crowds here today to watch the funeral of Pope Francis. What we saw, for instance, back in 2005 with the death of John Paul II, more than 300,000 people attended that funeral, and we're expecting similar numbers here today.

And what's different, however, about this funeral, compared to Pope Francis -- of Pope John Paul II, or Pope Benedict, who died several years ago, is that Pope Francis will be buried, as you mentioned, in the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore, which is about 3.75 miles from here, and there is his coffin will be taken in a procession through old Rome by -- through Piazza Venezia, by the Roman Forum, by the Colosseum, before being taken to the church of Santa Maria Maggiore. So, that will be quite a sight to see. And what we know is that much of Rome and the world really is going to have their eyes on the Vatican and that procession, as it goes to that church. Erica.

HILL: Yeah. Absolutely. Ben, appreciate it. Thank you.

Also with us this hour, CNN Vatican Analyst Katie McGrady, who is joining us from Washington. She is the host of "The Katie McGrady Show" on SiriusXM's Catholic channel, which is operated by the Archdiocese of New York, and joining us from Rome, Father Enzo Del Brocco, who is a Roman Catholic Passionist Priest. I appreciate both of you joining us tonight.

Father, you're there to attend the funeral. So many people have been pouring through, more than 250,000 making their way through the basilica over these three days to pay their respects. Can you just walk us through what it's been like for you there over the last couple of days? What are you noticing? What are you hearing from people?

FATHER ENZO DEL BROCCO, ROMAN CATHOLIC PASSIONIST PRIEST: Good morning, Erica. So, yeah. Well, one thing that I've noticed is, well, let me say this, the first thing that I did as soon as I arrived two days ago was to go to pay my respect to Pope Francis, and I kind of like skipped the line, and I was able to go directly to kneel at him, and seeing the basilica so full, I was really impressed, but I thought that my heart that I had to go again with the people.

And so, just yesterday, I stood for five hours in line and to know this people, what they were saying, how they were praying, the comments, quoting Pope Francis' gestures or even things that he said, and to hear especially young people, because this weekend was supposed to be, is this Jubilee for teenagers. It was to be even the canonization of Carlo Acutis, the young teenager, should have been taking place.

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And seeing all these young teenagers in line for five hours to go pay respect to a pontiff who died at 88-years-old, to a grandfather, really struck me, because I thought, wow, the Jubilee has been canceled. All their activities, they could have done something different. And instead of being in line, for example, maybe, as we usually see, like for a concert or for a new store opening, they were all in line for him, and that really shows how he really touched everyone. I was able to reach out to everyone with this -- I was able to -- with this -- this in Spanish, with his Carino (ph), with his tenderness, and I think that is something, especially our society, that we need very much.

And he also preached about this need of being everyone in connection, even inter-generation -- at the inter-generational level, that there has to be this community, this connection that we everywhere we wish to (inaudible) the society.

HILL: Father, you talk about this connection. You talk about all the young people there in line. What did they tell you specifically? What did they -- did they talk about the connection that they felt to Pope Francis? Why it was so important, to your point, that they stay there, that they spend hours in line so that they too could have the chance to pay their respects?

BROCCO: Yeah. Well, it was a little bit of everything as usual. I mean, to be honest, I thought of when Jesus had the crowds, I mean, people went there because they were curious, because they thought that they were healed, because they were having -- thought they would receive something. Now, what struck me most was, as soon as entering the Basilica, it was like the different mood almost was happening, and the journey going through the square, and then seeing, especially, that boat with those -- all those immigrant people that are represented in that statue inside of the square also, and to see them look at that, it's almost like -- I think one of the phrases, especially that one young boy told me, he says, I really can't wait to see what this is really all about.

But, one thing I can say, because I asked him, why are you here? One thing I can say is that what struck me most of him was his going to prisons, washing the feet in prisons. He is going reaching out to the sick. He is trying to embrace, especially those in the margins. And I think that's what -- his gestures, I think, spoke more than his words. That is one thing that I really noticed, that he was able to speak with gestures, with actions that really put into flesh the words that he was preaching.

HILL: Katie, I know you've talked about the sort of the vibes, if you will, right, that Pope Francis had that he put out there, and you noted, sort of to the Father's point here, that it wasn't necessarily that this was new, but it was more of a renewed pastoral approach. Talk to us about why you think that resonated with so many people, Katie.

KATIE MCGRADY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think Pope Francis came into the pontificate at a time when more and more social media was increasing. And so, he became more visible, as people would travel to Rome and they'd see this pontiff, this Pope, who would -- he would kiss a baby, and he would reach out to the person with sores, and he would welcome children into the popemobile on his drive around. And so, it was this renewed excitement to see a pontiff wanting to be close to the people.

Now, this is not something that other popes had not done, but I think in the age of phones and social media, it was even more visible. And so, that created this, let's call it, the Francis effect. That was what it was called in the early days, and I think we're seeing that again with this funeral. People have been lined up since midnight last night in Rome to make sure they can get a spot in the square. There is a love of this Pope, which is why over a quarter of a million people passed by his casket. And I have some friends in Rome who I've been communicating with. They think that's actually a low estimate. They feel like there are more people who were there in those crowds. That pastor approach was needed in our world, and he brought that.

HILL: Also, Katie, I know, and I think we have some photos, you have -- you met with the Pope multiple times. One of the things that I was struck by in looking at the photos that you sent us is it seemed that there was a warmth in his eyes that came through even in those photographs. Talk to us about what he was like in person. What were those moments like for you?

MCGRADY: The first time I met him was in 2018. I was a delegate at the pre-Senate gathering, and then I met him again in May of last year. And in 2018, Francis was notorious for showing up early. So, he would show up 30, 45 minutes early before a meeting started. On the one hand, because he wanted to see how people really were before there is kind of the buttoned up nerves, but then also, because he just wanted to be there with the people. So, he pops in in 2018 and he immediately goes to the back of the room where there was a young man in a wheelchair, and he stoops down to talk to him.

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Last year, when my husband and I met him in the World Meeting of Human Fraternity, he was actually a few minutes late, and that was the biggest I noticed kind of, oh, he is aging, and he is a little more infirmed, but he is still here with us. And so, we brought him some gifts. It's customary to give a gift to the Pope, and we brought him a letter from our daughter. She was six at the time, and she just wrote him a little letter that said, thank you for being our Pope. And as we were greeting him and saying our hello, he takes the letter, and he stopped looking at us entirely, and was just looking at the letter. And it was such a beautiful moment to share. I felt like I was bringing my daughter to meet the Pope.

We were actually supposed to be in Rome for that canonization this weekend, and had pretty good seats because of my connections at the Vatican, and had kind of a hope that maybe they'd get to meet him. And obviously, lots of things are very different. But, sharing those moments with him are truly something I will cherish and remember forever.

HILL: Yeah, and what a special moment to be able to share, to have the pictures of it, be able to see, for your daughter, that moment of him reading her letter.

Father, you talked about him focusing on the margins, and I know that's where you also have focused your ministry. How important do you think he has been in terms of raising awareness of speaking to folks on the margins, of making sure that the church is broadly inclusive?

BROCCO: Well, first of all, I think that he tried to -- I mean, he has been doing this since he was a priest and a cardinal, so, in Buenos Aires. So, this is not something new, and I think he just brought it to a wider audience when he became Pope. He really -- even while he took the name Francis, it was really because he understood that the church needed to renew itself to reach out again to the poor, and the fact that also, for his burial, the last ones who will say goodbye to him are actually the homeless, transgenders, people who are disabled. He wants them to be the last ones to say goodbye to him.

And I think he really believed that we should, for example, as a church, we should really not do politics, but bring the awareness for a higher politics, to bring awareness of, for example, those who are in the margins, so that we have a higher, I would say, way of and a better way to address so that no one is excluded. He always insisted on this. He always insisted like on saying how we are risking to go into a throwaway culture where we create not just waste, but human waste. And so, giving voice, I think, to the margins was very important to him, so much that the appointment that, for example, Cardinals in -- from regions that never had a Cardinal.

He opened historic leadership roles for women in the Vatican. He fought against clericalism continuously. He won tirelessly (ph) against the gossip and he also centered the church's mission around mercy with his first Jubilee, tenderness and service, and even during the Jubilee, the first Jubilee, especially the Jubilee of Mercy that he opened. The fact that he wanted to open the doors, or the Jubilee doors, in prisons, the refugee camps and hospitals in Africa. It really meant that for everyone to understand that church is not just enclosed into walls, but it's a living body and Christ is present everywhere, especially in those who suffer, because that is really where we touch the wounds of Christ.

So, for him to bring awareness to the poor --

HILL: It's such a beautiful legacy.

BROCCO: Sorry?

HILL: It's such a beautiful legacy.

Father Enzo Del Brocco, Katie McGrady, it's really wonderful to have both of you here to speak about not only his legacy, but your personal engagements with him and what he meant to you, just painting such a vivid picture. Thank you.

MCGRADY: Thanks.

BROCCO: Thank you.

HILL: As we mentioned, of course, world leaders are also converging there at the Vatican for the funeral of Pope Francis. We'll take a closer look ahead at who is attending a rare gathering of heads of state. You see there the French President, Emmanuel Macron, and First Lady of France, Brigitte Macron.

Also ahead, a U.S. judge, as we look at some of the stories also in the headlines here in the United States, a U.S. judge arrested in the Trump administration's crackdown on immigration enforcement. A closer look at the charges she is facing. That's also ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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HILL: These are live images from the Vatican, as you can see there, from Vatican City. People starting to file in there. It looks like from the last time we saw some of these live pictures just about 10, 15 minutes ago, the funeral for Pope Francis set to get underway a little under four hours from now. It is 06:18 local time. It is set to happen there at 10:00 a.m. This will, of course, be the funeral mass for Pope Francis. Thousands of people expected to attend, including a number of world leaders. Some 130 delegations have been confirmed.

We have coverage for you from CNN's Ben Wedeman live in Rome, also CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson at London's Westminster Cathedral.

Then, first of all, when we're talking about 50 heads of state, 10 sitting monarchs, it is a massive security undertaking at all to have this many people there. But, when you were talking about all of these heads of state there outside, I can only imagine what the security is like on the ground at this moment.

WEDEMAN: I have to tell you the truth, Erica, the security isn't quite as tight as I would have expected. We came here. We're right on the edge of St. Peter's Square. We have not been checked. Our equipment has not been checked. So, security isn't quite as tight as one would expect.

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What we're seeing now, within the last few minutes, is that the police have begun to allow people to approach St. Peter's Square, and what I saw was people running up the long Via della Conciliazione, which is the long boulevard in front of St. Peter's Square. Now, it is -- all these people are -- some of them running to get a good position. Some spent the night in the area hoping to be able to get as close as possible to the funeral itself in the square behind me. So, we are expecting many people. Now, back in 2005, more than 300,000 people attended Pope John Paul II's funeral, and I think we can expect similar numbers here today. Erica.

HILL: Yeah. Absolutely.

Nic, given all of these heads of state from around the world making their way there, I'm also a little surprised what Ben said about the security, this is also -- there is the security part, but Nic, there is also just the gathering to see that many world leaders in one place. That doesn't happen very often either.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It really doesn't. And of course, they'll all bring their own recollections and connections with Pope Francis, and I think perhaps the French President Emmanuel Macron is one of the sort of the relationships that's very instructive. He, of course, will be attending with his wife, Brigitte. They first met in 2018 and when they did, it was an exception long meeting, because at that time, Emmanuel Macron had been sounding very tough on migrants, and the Pope's message to him at that time was to be more warm, if you will, towards refugees, to be more welcoming towards them. And they exchanged gifts. The Pope gave him a medal of St. Martin, a fourth century saint from the Catholic Church. That's supposed to inspire generosity. And the French President gave back a book about a French priest who had learned humility. That was the narrative of the book.

And when you think about crossed (ph) messages, the Pope told Macron, I've read this book several times, and yes, it was very helpful. And they met again a couple of times. 2021, 2022. The Pope going, in particular, to Marseille in 2023, saying, not going to France, but going to Marseille on the southern coast, the Mediterranean port city in France, and it was because he wanted to highlight the plight of migrants who are dying in boats on the Mediterranean Sea. And his last visit outside of Italy was to France, to Corsica, again, to that island, because of its status of as a place where refugees have come ashore from North Africa.

And I think in a way, that relationship with the poor and the relationship that leaders have with the poor, particularly on the issue of migrants, before President Trump got his first presidency, the Pope had said that anyone who builds walls, which is what President Trump was talking about doing, is not being Christian, the comments the U.S. President at the time described as disgraceful. But, when he met the Pope in 2017, he came away infused that he was -- the Pope was fantastic, and this, in many ways, whatever differences of opinion, leaders came away with that sense they said that the Pope was a great man.

So, these individual experiences will be what these 50 heads of states, 130 delegations, 10 Royals, will be experiencing today. There are kings and queens coming from Norway, from Spain, from Belgium, the Queen of Denmark, Prince William, coming from here in the UK, Crown Prince and Princess of Norway will be there. So, absolutely, heads of state, leading Royals.

HILL: Yeah, it is really something, as we're watching these live pictures, watching the non-Royals, the non-dignitaries filter in there into the -- into Vatican City.

Thank you both. We'll continue to check in with you over the next several hours.

As we've been talking about, of course, U.S. President Donald Trump is one of those dignitaries who is in Italy for the Pope's funeral. While he is there, he says he does plan to meet with, quote, "some people".

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm going to meet some people in Rome, yes. And a little bit quickly. And frankly, it's a little disrespectful to have meetings when you're at the funeral of a Pope. They say. But, I'll be talking to people. I'll be seeing a lot of people, including the Prime Minister of Italy.

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HILL: The Prime Minister of Italy, of course, who just a short time ago was actually at the White House.

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Mr. Trump did not say whether he planned to speak with the President of Ukraine while in Rome. We know that he is also trying to be there. He did, however, posted this to his Truth Social account upon arriving in Italy, saying, "Just landed in Rome. A good day in talks and meetings with Russia and Ukraine", noting "They are", in his words, "very close to a deal", also encouraging the two sides to now meet at very high levels, to quote, "finish it off", saying it's time to stop the bloodshed. We'll continue to follow those developments for you.

The funeral ceremonies, of course, could put the U.S. and Ukrainian presidents closer to one another. Tensions over that U.S. proposal, though, for peace between Ukraine and Russia dominating a lot of the conversations at this point. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy noting he will attend the funeral if he is able to get there in time, but he does have a number of military meetings today.

Earlier on Friday, Mr. Zelenskyy conceded he doesn't have the military might to retake Crimea, which, of course, is a major focus of these talks. He says there isn't the military might for Ukraine to retake Crimea by force.

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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (Interpreted): I agree with President Trump that Ukraine does not have enough arms to take back control over Crimean Peninsula, but the world can impose sanctions and use other means of economic and diplomatic pressure to talk about it and discuss territorial issues, but only after a full and unconditional ceasefire.

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HILL: Russia, of course, annexed Crimea in 2014. It was widely condemned as an illegal land grab. Sources say the current White House proposal, though, implies that the U.S. would recognize Russia's control of Crimea. Mr. Zelenskyy has repeatedly said that is a non- starter for him. It would also require a special vote in Ukraine.

Meantime, U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff meeting with President Putin again on Friday, as he pushes to bring Russia to the table and also hopefully to get them to agree to this U.S. plan for peace with Ukraine. We're learning, however, that Europeans and Ukrainians are now backing a separate peace proposal, one that is said to be more favorable to Ukraine.

Fred Pleitgen has more now from Moscow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. MIDDLE EAST ENVOY: How are you, Mr. President?

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRSIDENT: Thank you. Thank you.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): A warm welcome from the Russian leader, but then straight down to business, Vladimir Putin lined by two of his top expert negotiators, President Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, without any other senior U.S. officials in his corner. After three hours behind closed doors, the Russians say some progress was made. This conversation allowed for further rapprochement between the positions of Russia and the United States, not only on Ukraine, but also on a number of other international issues, a Russian negotiator told reporters by phone.

PLEITGEN (on camera): As President Trump's special negotiator Steve Witkoff met with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, the Russians too say that they want a deal as fast as possible, but they won't sign anything that could harm Russia's national interests.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): While Witkoff and Kirill Dmitriev, part of Russia's negotiating team, took a stroll down a shopping street in central Moscow before the Kremlin talks --

TRUMP: No, no. You've done a lot of talking.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): -- President Trump applied pressure on Ukraine's leadership in an interview with Time Magazine, outright saying, the Crimean Peninsula, which Putin annexed in 2014, will stay with Russia, and that he believes Ukraine's desire to join NATO was one of the root causes leading to Russia's full-on invasion in 2022, all while later claiming a deal may be close at hand.

TRUMP: I think Russia and Ukraine, I think they're coming along. We hope, very fragile.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Fragile and violent. The talks come as Ukraine is still reeling from a powerful Russian missile attack that left dozens killed and wounded on Thursday, and today, a Russian general was killed by a car bomb outside Moscow, leaving the Russians fuming. While Ukraine has not commented, Moscow is blaming Kyiv's intelligence services. This, once again, shows that despite the peace talks, we must be on guard and understand the essence of this regime, Putin's spokesman says. How and when those talks will continue, is up for debate, as President Trump says his patience is increasingly running thin.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

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HILL: As we return our attention now to the Vatican, world leaders and the faithful gathering for the funeral of Pope Francis, which will take place just about three and a half hours from now. Our live coverage continues from St. Peters Square and from around the world after this short break. You're watching CNN.

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HILL: Live pictures here. You can see the sun now up in Vatican City, as people are filing in there, some of them you can see almost running in, as we heard from our correspondent Ben Wedeman on the ground. Some people sleeping out overnight in the hopes that they would be able to make their way into St. Peters Square to be there for this funeral mass. Of course, a number of dignitaries will also be in attendance, many of them already arriving in Italy.

Last night, the very simple wooden coffin of Pope Francis was sealed in a private rite, officially ending three days of his lying in state at the Vatican. Of course, this was something that the Pope himself had wanted, a simpler coffin was one of them, also where he would like to be buried. This single coffin the last one, far more elaborate, three nested coffins of cypress, lead, and oak.

Christopher Bellitto is a Professor of History at Kean University, a church historian and the author of "101 Questions & Answers on Popes and the Papacy", and he is joining us from Freehold, New Jersey. So, you are the person to answer all of our questions. There has been so much made about this simplicity, sort of toning things down a little bit, which is what Pope Francis wanted in these final moments, right, for his funeral mass, also where he will be buried. That is also indicative of really who he was.

CHRISTOPHER BELLITTO, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, KEAN UNIVERSITY: Yes, very much, and it continues a toning down of the ritual since the Second Vatican Council, which met in the 1960s.

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So, the last really elaborate funeral was in 1963, and starting in 1978, Paul VI, who was kind of a model Pope for Francis, someone very interested in internationalizing, if that's a word, the church. His coffin was a simple wooden coffin with an open book of the Gospels on it, and rather dramatically, the wind kind of turns the pages, and that's exactly what happened in 1978 for Paul VI, and then the sudden death of John Paul I after 33 days, the same simple coffin, so too with John Paul II in 2005, and then Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.

And so, Francis is continuing that. One kind of really big change, visually we can see from historical photographs, is that up until now, the Pope's body was kind of presented on a funeral beer with nothing around it, kind of just on a table. You'll notice in the pictures we've seen in the last couple of days that the Pope is in a coffin in the same way that we have all seen at once what some traditions call a viewing, or others awake, we've just been seeing a massive wake, and the Pope was simply in that coffin, as we've seen many other people as well. At the end of his life, after all of these honors and all of these titles, he returns to the Father's house, as it is said, as another Christian believer. HILL: There has been so much about his legacy. I know you've said

that, when we look at his legacy, it's also about process, about the openness that everybody has a chance to be a part of this, everybody has a chance to speak, but also to listen. That was also very important to him --

BELLITTO: Yeah.

HILL: -- in terms of that message that he was giving and setting the example.

BELLITTO: Yeah. He talked about humble listening and he is a Jesuit, and that is a very important process for Jesuits. It's called discernment, and basically it means throwing everything against the wall and seeing what's going to stick. And he used a Greek word parrhesia, which means boldness. He said in his first gathering of bishops, let no one say this can't be said, and it's because, in the last several decades, bishops had and complained about, been coming to Rome and been given marching orders, and they said no one was listening to us in the (inaudible).

And so, he very much wanted to change that whole process, which really culminated in the synod of synods, which was a worldwide listening session where people listen to each other in parishes, and then a diocese, and then an Archdiocese, and then finally in Rome, in two sessions in October of 2024 and then 2025.

HILL: How would you define his time as Pope? There has been so much made about him doing things differently, and yet, a number of people I've spoken to over the last several days have said it's not really that he was doing things differently. It's just that you're seeing more of it, but it's not so much that he did change the church. Do you agree with that? I mean, where do you stand on sort of upholding the traditions, which obviously he did, but also ushering in change?

BELLITTO: Well, I think that some people didn't want to like him, and so, their answer was, he kept changing doctrine. And I keep on asking, what doctrine did he change? And he changed precisely one doctrine, which is that he said in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that the death penalty was now inadmissible. We can't imagine any circumstance in which the death penalty would apply. I've had people say to me, well, he changed Communion in the hand. Well, that happened many years ago. He didn't make that change. And in fact, it reaches all the way back to the early church.

And so, that charge, I think his style was a very different style. And if you look at the history of the church, different periods call for different types of people. John Paul II was primarily a diplomat. He really, really knew, in the best sense, how to be a politician, not the negatives of that word, how to get things done. Benedict saw himself as a teacher, as a professor. Francis saw himself as a pastor, not that the other two weren't pastors, of course. And so, that was his general approach, and his pastor approach said to his other fellow bishops and priests, you got to get out there. You got to get off the pulpit. You got to get out of the door, and you have to go out and listen to people and accompany people where they are, especially the people who have no one to pray for them, no one to take care of them.

So, he saw this, and I think he read the moment right, because the last 10 years, what have we seen in the world, this global indifference, this increased lack of care for the people who are cast off from capitalism, and please remember that John Paul II was as much a critic of capitalism as he was of communism.

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HILL: Yeah. Christopher Bellitto, great to have you with us tonight. Really appreciate the insight and your expertise. Thank you.

BELLITTO: Thanks for having me.

HILL: I want to also get you caught up on some of the other news of the day that we are following.

A sitting Wisconsin judge now facing federal charges of allegedly obstructing immigration agents and helping an undocumented immigrant avoid arrest.

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HILL: Judge Hannah Dugan was arrested on Friday, sparking, as you see here, protests at the Milwaukee federal courthouse.

CNN's Whitney Wild has more.

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WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Unsealed court records are providing much more detail about what led up to Judge Dugan's arrest, and according to the FBI, this actually started April 18 when several federal law enforcement agents arrived at her court because she was set to hear a case involving a man named Eduardo Flores-Ruiz. According to the FBI, he had already been deported once. They were moving forward with an administrative warrant to bring him into custody on an immigration administrative warrant.

When Judge Dugan learned that federal law enforcement was there to arrest Flores-Ruiz, she became very upset, and in fact, pulled some of those federal agents aside, and with the chief judge, got on the phone, where, as a group, the chief judge insisted that federal law enforcement only take Flores-Ruiz into custody in the public areas of the court, which is something that those federal agents agreed to.

And this is important because the FBI says, after that, Judge Dugan went back into the courtroom, and as Flores-Ruiz and his attorney were leaving out of the door that would have led them to a public part of the courthouse, instead, according to the affidavit, she said something to the effect of, wait, come with me, and led them out the jury door, which would lead to a private area of the courthouse. That created a significant hurdle for federal law enforcement. They ended up getting into a foot chase with Flores-Ruiz. They eventually did bring him into custody. But, now the FBI is saying that that was an obstruction of justice. And so, they took Judge Dugan into custody Friday morning. As she appeared in court Friday before noon, she was released.

But, while this represents a major escalation by the Trump DoJ, it is not altogether surprising, because they have made clear from the outset that they are prepared to bring the full force of the law against anyone, and that includes state and local officials, anyone that they perceive as standing in their way to enforce these national immigration laws.

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HILL: Our thanks to Whitney Wild for that report.

The funeral for Pope Francis just hours away. After the break, we'll take a closer look at the legacy of the first Latin American pontiff. Stay with us.

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HILL: You can see more mourners gathering now, of course, as we look at live pictures here from Vatican City. So many people were, as we heard from our teams on the ground, sleeping out overnight in hopes that they would be able to get closer, be right there in the throngs of people who will be paying their respects at the funeral mass today for the Pope, just a little over three hours from now.

Pope Francis leaves behind a historic, transformative legacy for the Catholic Church. Born in Buenos Aires, he was the first Jesuit Pope, also the first from the Americas. They had all been from Europe prior.

CNN's Patrick Oppmann is joining us now from Havana. That legacy is so important for this Pope, and it has meant so much to those in Latin America to the faithful.

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I remember when he was named when Jorge Bergoglio became Pope Francis, and the excitement that that generated across the region was just so strong. People didn't expect it and to have a Pope. I've covered the visits of three popes here, and there was a difference with Pope Francis, of course, speaking in his native Spanish. We've talked a lot about his simplicity, the fact that he was such an advocate for the poor and for migrants in particular. And that hit a nerve across the region when he came, he came twice to Cuba.

And you would see how he would just connect in a way that other popes, despite being eloquent, despite being able to converse in Spanish fluently, there is something about someone talking in their native language, but also his message that he administered in the slums of Buenos Aires to the poorest of the poor, that he had lived in Argentina during dictatorships and financial crisis. He was someone who was not coming from sort of the cloistered ivory towers of the Catholic Church. He had really been out in the trenches. And so, he brought that experience with him. He traveled throughout the region. It was obviously a place that was very important to him. He would go, come here to Cuba, where the church had been so impacted over the years. He would go to Mexico and speak on the U.S.-Mexican border about migration.

Tragically, though, the place he never was able to return to was his native Argentina, and that was just the politics that he simply had differences with the leadership, both on the left and the right in Argentina. He talked frequently about wanting to return to his homeland, wanting to return as Pope, but unfortunately, that was one of the few things he was not able to do as Pope. But, certainly across this region, he did connect with so many people. He was so influential in, for instance, restoring U.S.-Cuban ties. He actually hosted some of those secret negotiations at the Vatican. He advocated for the ending of the civil war in Colombia.

So, of course, the Pope is a religious leader. He is a spiritual leader. But, behind the scenes, he really did bring his kind of quiet diplomacy to bear leaders, particularly in this region, had to listen to the Pope, whether or not they liked his message or not, and certainly for the regular people, the fact that he constantly talked about migration and the poor, that is the legacy that they will remember from this Pope.

HILL: Yeah, and you make a great point. Leaders really around the world maybe didn't always like the message, but they did listen. They certainly did.

Patrick, really appreciate it. Good to see you. Thank you.

When we return, our coverage of the funeral of Pope Francis continues, including a look at a local bakery that provided sweets for one very special customer. Be sure to stay with us.

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HILL: Live pictures here. You can see the sun really just starting to light up the area here in Vatican City, as we prepare for our coverage of the funeral for Pope Francis, now just about three hours away, St. Peter's Square, as you see, opening. People who have been filing in there, the world leaders, the dignitaries, quite a number of them, 130 confirmed delegations, some 50 world leaders, 10 sitting monarchs, will all be there for the Pope's funeral, which begins, of course, at 10:00 a.m. local time, 04:00 a.m. Eastern, for those of you here in the United States.

As the world mourns Pope Francis, one shop in Rome is also remembering a very special, a very loyal customer. Throughout his papacy, that shop provided cakes for the pontiff's birthdays and special events, even baking extras for the homeless at the pontiff's request.

Here is CNN's Rafael Romo.

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RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the loss of the Pope, the loss of a loyal customer. Just steps from the Vatican, this gelateria opened the day Francis was elected. The shop's first papal creation was a cake for his name day, when Jorge Mario Bergoglio took on the name Francis.

[00:55:00]

FRANCESCO CERAVOLO, OWNER, HEDERA GELATERIA (Interpreted): All our cakes had a theme dear to him in a particular moment, children, migrants, each time we put these images on the cake, which he really liked, as it represented somehow his hope in time and his message.

ROMO (voice-over): Over time, the Pope's age made it difficult for him to eat sweets. The owner of Hedera Gelateria, recalls the Pope telling him he will make me fat. In true Francis fashion, the Pope made a different request, on his birthday, give cakes to others, the less fortunate, so they can celebrate too.

CERAVOLO (Interpreted): We slowed down the production of sweets for Pope Francis. He asked us to give them to the dispossessed, those at the bottom, the poorest, those who are around the columns.

ROMO (voice-over): Francesco Ceravolo remembers Francis not just as the Pope or even a customer, but as a friend, in his own spiritual guide.

CERAVOLO (Interpreted): I used to speak to him as if I was speaking with my priest, my spiritual father. So, he was very nice to me. I brought him sweets. I brought him sweetness, a moment of hilarity.

ROMO (voice-over): Sweetness for a Pope with a sweet tooth, now just sweet memories.

Rafael Romo, CNN, Rome.

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HILL: Thanks so much for joining us this hour. I'm Erica Hill in New York. Stay tuned. Our special coverage of Pope Francis' funeral continues after this short break.

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