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St. Peter's Square Opens To Public For Pope's Funeral; World Leaders And Faithful Gather For Pope's Funeral; Trump Slams Zelensky For Yet Signing Minerals Deal; U.S. Envoy Meets Putin Amid U.S. Push For Ukraine Peace Deal; Judge Charged With Allegedly Obstructing Immigration Agents; Luigi Mangione Pleads Not Guilty To All Federal Charges; Spokesperson: Prince Andrew Accuser Virginia Giuffre Has Died; Pope Francis' Funeral Procession; Argentinians Work To Continue Pope Francis' Legacy. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired April 26, 2025 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[01:00:37]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers from around the world and from the United States. It's good to have you with us this hour. I'm Erica Hill in New York.

It is 7:00 a.m. right now at the Vatican, where St. Peter's Square is now open to the public. People have been filing in there ahead of the funeral for Pope Francis, which begins three hours from now, 10:00 a.m. local time. As we do get closer to that moment, we will also, of course, see the many dignitaries who have arrived there for this service will also file in, of course, members of the clergy as well.

Among those who are coming, the U.S. President Donald Trump, First Lady Melania Trump. They landed in Rome several hours ago. French President Emmanuel Macron and his wife also in attendance. They paid their respects on Friday when the Pope was still lying-in state.

Over the past several days, more than 250,000 people have filed through St. Peter's Basilica to pay their final respects to the people's pope.

We have complete coverage for you. Ben Wedeman joining us from Rome, CNN's chief diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is live at London's Westminster Cathedral.

Ben, let's begin with you. You've been there, first of all, all week watching this, but in the hours that have unfolded and just in the last hour or so, as people were allowed to be let in there to St. Peter's Square. What are you hearing from people? What are they telling you in terms of why it's so important for them to be there in this moment? And you mentioned many people coming from all around the globe.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): Yes. People from coming from everywhere, really. I spoke to, for instance, one man from Seattle, Washington, in the United States, who was telling me he came here because he had so much respect for Pope Francis as somebody who had humility, modesty, but also an enduring concern for the poor. I spoke to two women who had driven from Paris, just arrived a few hours ago. They've been waiting from 2:00 a.m. to get inside here to get a good position to watch this funeral. I spoke to a couple, an Indian couple who live in Switzerland. They had driven here as well, and they told us that they saw Pope Francis as a living saint while he was still alive, of course.

And what we're seeing now is that more and more people are entering into the area around St. Peter's Square, trying to get a place. And the authorities are basically channeling people in bits at a time to try to keep the situation under control, because we are expecting hundreds of thousands of people to come to attend this funeral, in addition to all of those VIPs. But what I'm seeing is just people from around the world have come. This was a pope who I think really struck a chord with ordinary people because of his compassion, because of his modesty.

And what we're seeing today is going to be a funeral very much reflective of that desire for simplicity. He's not going to be buried in St. Peter's Basilica, as many other popes have, but rather in the Church of Santa Maria Maggiore, in a simple wooden coffin. And above that coffin, on that coffin, I mean, will be simply his name, Franciscus, which is the Latin version of his name.

He specifically desired that there be no ornamentation on his tomb, really reflective of just his insistence of being everything simple. This was a pope who didn't live in the sumptuous apostolic apartments, but rather in two rooms in the Casa Santa Marta, which is really is a Spartan guest house in the Vatican City. He ate in the cafeteria there, along with the staff at the Vatican, with the gardeners, with the security personnel, with ordinary individuals, not the VIPs.

It's ironic that so many VIPs will be attending the funeral for a man who really wanted to be in touch with the common people, with the ordinary people behind me now are streaming in to the area around St. Peter's Square to attend this funeral.

Erica?

[01:05:06]

HILL: Yes, absolutely. Ben, thank you.

Nic, in terms of all of those world leaders, to Ben's point, who will be making their way, many of them already there in Rome, in Italy, making their way to the Vatican, this is quite a gathering of world leaders, heads of state, reigning monarchs, to see them all in one place. The ability of Pope Francis to bring all of them together also speaks to much of what he did during his papacy.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (on-camera): It really did. And I think every leader will have had their own particular relationship with the Pope, not least from his native Argentina, Javier Milei would be there today. And his relationship was one that was a difficult one in the beginning because the Pope, he didn't appreciate the Pope, and the Pope had made comments that he didn't like.

But after he met the Pope, the relationship really improved, and that is something that really seems to have crossed between so many of the different leaders coming, leaders today from 130 different delegations, 50 heads of state, Argentina, Bangladesh, Belize, Brazil, Croatia, Cyprus. The prime minister of New Zealand will be there, the prime minister of the U.K.

You know, they go for themselves, these leaders, but they represent their own countries. You know, for example, more than six million Catholics here in the U.K. Prince William will be there, other royals will be there, the kings, queens of Spain, of Sweden, crown princess of Norway, the queen of Denmark. But you think about, as well, and these leaders will take with them the thoughts about what the Pope stood for, for humanity, for the poor.

And I will just ask Clay (ph) here to zoom in a little bit at the doors outside Westminster Cathedral here, the main Catholic cathedral in the center of London. And, look, there are rough sleepers here, dozens of them, sleeping outside the cathedral. They come here, many of them night after night after night.

And there's a charity here that will give them and is giving them, you know, coffee and a little bit of food in the morning when they wake up. It's a place of safety. It's a place of sanctuary. They -- the rough sleepers the world over, here in London in particular, have a terrible time of abuse from passers-by and just a disadvantaged life. And these were the types of people, as well as the leaders, that the Pope wanted to communicate with, wanted to uplift, wanted to help.

So, this will be something for all these different leaders to reflect upon, the plight of the poor and the needy in their countries.

There are approximately 1.4 billion Catholics around the world. We think of countries like Ireland. Micheal Martin, the Irish Taoiseach Prime Minister, will be there today at the Vatican for the funeral. Two-thirds of his country, more than 3.5 million people, are Catholic. So Poland as well, a high proportion of Catholics, Croatia as well.

So, all of these leaders will know that they're perhaps, in a way, they're representing the Catholics in their own country. But the burden will have been communicated to them directly or through his work by Pope Francis of their need as leaders in their own countries to do right by the poor. And we see them behind us here today.

HILL: Yes. And it was certainly his message throughout his lifetime, really.

Ben, I want to bring you back in here. You talked about the connection that so many people have felt to this pope, which is bringing them there to pay their respects.

What I think is striking, too, is this is obviously not limited to Catholics. People of so many faiths have been touched by this pope, including faith leaders. And there will be a number of them in attendance today as well, just speaking to not only his broad appeal, but the way that this pope really wanted to bring people together.

WEDEMAN (on-camera): Yes, this is a pope who, for instance, one of his first acts after he was elected, he went to a prison here in Rome and washed the feet of a Muslim prisoner. This is a man who really tried to extend, to reach out to others of other faiths. And I think he struck a chord with many people.

What I've seen here over the last few days is there are Muslims, there are Jews, there are Hindus, there are many people who have come to pay their respects to a man who really reached across the religious sectarian bounds and tried to convey his basic message of charity, of humility, of concern for the poor, and this is what we're seeing today is that this is not an exclusively Catholic crowd in any sense.

[01:10:30]

And so, people who are of other faiths have come to pay their respects, and what we're seeing is more and more people just flooding into St. Peter's Square and the area around it. The authorities here are trying to keep the situation organized and under control, but I think we can expect huge numbers of people.

Back in 2005, there were more than 300,000 people packed into the square for the funeral of John Paul II, and I think today we'll see similar numbers as the crowd continues to come in. As I said, the people were waiting overnight. It's cold at night here in Rome at the moment, but nonetheless, people, when we drove in at 4.30 in the morning, they were already crowded outside the barriers waiting to get in.

Erica?

HILL: Yes, and we can see these -- and I'm just looking at some of the live pictures here, too. We can see the giant screens that have been put up to make sure that everybody can see what's going on.

Ben Wedeman in Rome and Nic Robertson in London. Thank you both. We'll continue to check in with you throughout our coverage.

Also joining us this hour from Rome, Father Patrick Mary Briscoe. He's the editor of Our Sunday Visitor and the host of the God's Planning Podcast.

Father, it's good to have you with us. You know, as we have been -- I've been talking with my colleagues and throughout this past several days, talking with people there on the ground about why they're there, what the Pope meant to them.

I'm just curious, your view. What did this pope mean to you? What did he mean to your faith?

FATHER PATRICK MARY BRISCOE, EDITOR, OUR SUNDAY VISITOR: Good morning, Erica. It's great to be joining you here from Rome. I am delighted to be here because Pope Francis, of course, set such a great example. I was ordained a priest. I began my priestly ministry during his pontificate. And Pope Francis' great sayings, like that priests ought to have the smell of the sheep, that we ought to be dedicated to mercy, really formed the first years of my priesthood.

So it's with that sense of gratitude, the kind of affection that a son has for his father, that's what brought me here to Rome to say my final farewell to our pope.

HILL: How do you think he helped to shape the church's identity, even to those outside the Catholic faith?

BRISCOE: Erica, I think it was really Pope Francis' spontaneity, his kind of off-the-cuff gestures that convinced people of his authenticity. He wasn't afraid to do the kinds of things that got people to give religion a second look, to orient them and to help direct them to higher things.

One of the things I appreciate most about Pope Francis is the bold way that he called out some of the shortcomings in our culture, our tendency towards materialism or consumerism, for example, pointing us to live for higher things and to live lives that are really filled with meaning and for purpose.

HILL: I'm looking at some pictures that you had shared with us of you and the Pope. And there was one that was just up on the screen. You're shaking hands, and there are these enormous smiles on both of your faces. And we have heard, and I've seen in speaking with other people, the warmth in his eyes in a number of those pictures.

But it's the stories that I'm hearing over and over again about what it was like to spend time in his presence, about that warmth, also about his humor.

BRISCOE: Oh, it's absolutely true. Many of my colleagues in the Vatican Press Corps have loads of stories. That particular moment where I'm shaking the hand of the Holy Father was on the feast day of St. Thomas Aquinas, a great saint of my own Dominican religious order. And so, we were having a little joke because the Pope is a Jesuit, and traditionally Jesuits and Dominicans have a little bit of a conflict, a little bit of a rivalry, you might say. And so, he was teasing me just a little bit about celebrating the feast day of our great man with him, the Jesuit pope.

There's also been so much talk about it. It was such a focus for him, I know, connecting with young people and the way that he has in many ways inspired younger Catholics today. How have you seen evidence of that? How important do you think that has been in terms of his legacy?

BRISCOE: Oh, I think it's one of the key parts, Erica, because certainly today we're seeing a resurgence in religious devotion, a kind of renewal of religious life globally, in fact. It's not just a movement in the United States, but all over the world in the Catholic Church.

[01:15:05]

And I think that part of that is faced with the choices of the world, faced with what people could live for. Young people are saying, I want religion. I want something that will give me hope. I want something that will offer me more than the kind of tired and worn sense that the culture offers. And I think Pope Francis has animated a lot of that.

I think his concern, for example, about environmentalism has caught the attention of many young people. I think his loving and affable way of speaking is another thing that caught many people's attention.

HILL: Father Patrick Mary Briscoe, really appreciate you taking the time to join us. Thank you.

Just ahead here, we'll get you caught up on some of the day's other news, including the latest on a powerful car bomb that killed a top Russian general, just as a U.S. envoy was working to push a Ukrainian peace deal in the Kremlin.

More on that is ahead.

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HILL: U.S. President Donald Trump is now in Italy for the Pope's funeral. One of dozens of world leaders in attendance later this morning for that event.

[01:20:02]

And that, of course, prompting questions about whether Mr. Trump plans to meet with any of them.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you attending?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: Some people in Rome, yes. And a little bit quickly. And frankly, it's a little disrespectful to have meetings when you're at the funeral of a pope. They say.

So -- but I'll be talking to people. I'll be seeing a lot of people, including the --yes, including the prime minister of Italy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Now, while Mr. Trump would not say whether he planned to speak with the Ukrainian president while in Rome, he did post to his Truth Social account after arriving, writing, just landed in Rome, saying it was a good day in talks and meetings with Russia and Ukraine. They are very close to a deal, and the two sides should now meet at very high levels to, quote, finish it off. Most of the major points are agreed to. He went on to say, stop the bloodshed now.

It's important to note, though, that Mr. Trump is also lashing out at Ukraine's president on social media, specifically over not closing that deal on critical minerals, saying that he hasn't yet signed off on the final agreement and calling on President Zelenskyy to sign it immediately. That deal would reportedly give the United States more access to all of Ukraine's mineral wealth.

In addition to oil and gas, President Zelenskyy has said the terms of the agreement are constantly changing, but that Ukraine is generally not opposed to it.

U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff meeting with President Putin yet again on Friday, pushing to get Russia to agree to a U.S. plan for peace with Ukraine. It's important to note that we're also learning the Europeans and Ukrainians are now backing a separate peace proposal, one that is said to be more favorable to Ukraine.

Fred Pleitgen has more now from Moscow.

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STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY: How are you, Mr. President?

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA: Thank you (INAUDIBLE).

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): A warm welcome from the Russian leader, but then straight down to business. Vladimir Putin, lined by two of his top expert negotiators, President Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, without any other senior U.S. officials in his corner.

After three hours behind closed doors, the Russians say some progress was made.

This conversation allowed for further rapprochement between the positions of Russia and the United States not only on Ukraine, but also on a number of other international issues, a Russian negotiator told reporters by phone.

PLEITGEN: As President Trump's special negotiator Steve Witkoff met with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, the Russians, too, say that they want a deal as fast as possible, but they won't sign anything that could harm Russia's national interests.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): While Witkoff and Kirill Dmitriev, part of Russia's negotiating team, took a stroll down a shopping street in central Moscow before the Kremlin talks --

TRUMP: No, no, you did a lot of talking.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): -- President Trump applied pressure on Ukraine's leadership in an interview with Time magazine.

Outright saying the Crimean Peninsula, which Putin annexed in 2014, will stay with Russia, and that he believes Ukraine's desire to join NATO was one of the root causes leading to Russia's full-on invasion in 2022. All while later claiming a deal may be close at hand.

TRUMP: I think Russia and Ukraine, I think they're coming along, we hope, very fragile. PLEITGEN (voice-over): Fragile and violent. The talks come as Ukraine is still reeling from a powerful Russian missile attack that left dozens killed and wounded on Thursday. And today, a Russian general was killed by a car bomb outside Moscow, leaving the Russians fuming.

While Ukraine has not commented, Moscow is blaming Kiev's intelligence services

This once again shows that despite the peace talks, we must be on guard and understand the essence of this regime, Putin's spokesman says.

How and when those talks will continue is up for debate, as President Trump says his patience is increasingly running thin.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: So as I mentioned, President Trump posting on social media that the two sides are close to a deal, encouraging them to meet face-to- face and finish it, in his words. A source close to the Ukrainian government, however, says there are still major sticking points that remain between Washington and Kiev.

I mentioned, of course, that other peace deal that Europeans and Ukrainians are backing, which is more favorable to Ukraine.

A short time ago, my colleague Kaitlan Collins discussed this with our contributor and former CNN Moscow bureau chief, Jill Dougherty, for her reaction to those comments from President Trump.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think there's a bit of give on both sides, excuse me. I have noticed there have been some reports coming out now about Zelenskyy being a little less clear about what he would or wouldn't go for. And sometimes obfuscation helps in these things, because they're very, very precise.

[01:25:03]

So if you're not that precise, you might be able to get to some type of deal that sounds good enough to get a ceasefire. But ultimately, I think it is the security issue long term that's going to be you know, the decider does this work or not?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Taking a look at some of the other stories we're following at this hour, a sitting Wisconsin judge is now facing federal charges of allegedly obstructing immigration agents and allegedly helping an undocumented immigrant who was in her courtroom avoid arrest. Judge Hannah Dugan was arrested on Friday and later released. Court documents, say several witnesses told investigators, they saw the Judge direct the undocumented man to leave her court through a private door. The man was eventually taken into custody. The Judge's arrest though marking an escalation in the Trump administration's focus on judicial conduct, especially involving immigration enforcement issue.

Luigi Mangione, the 26-year-old who is accused of fatally shooting the -- a healthcare CEO on the street of New York last year, pleading not guilty to all federal charges in court on Friday. During that arraignment, his legal team said they will seek to have his federal case go to trial before his state cases because the Justice Department is seeking the death penalty in that federal trial.

An attorney for Mangione also told the court a prosecutor and the district attorney's office eves dropped on a phone call between her and the defendant. The judge has now given prosecutors seven days to respond.

Disgraced former U.S. representative George Santos, sentenced just over seven years in prison on federal fraud charges.

CNN's Brynn Gingras has more on the ex-lawmaker's fate.

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BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The judge in this case, expressing some real disappointment in George Santos before handing down that 87-month sentence to the former Republican congressman. She really brought up the fact that she just believes he didn't show any remorse for the crimes that he admitted guilt to back last summer.

She essentially said she looked in all the evidence that was in front of her and that he just continued to lie and questioned the fact after making so much money on social media appearances, how come he didn't set up a savings account to begin the process of restitution? So, these were some of the finer points that she brought up again before sentencing Santos.

Now, he did have a chance to address the judge. He said that he was sorry he was crying during that process. And he basically says he knows that he betrayed the trust of the people that supported him. It wasn't enough though. I got to tell you, Santos was sobbing in his hands when the judge handed down that 87-month sentence. He asked his attorney to request that he be in a federal prison and that he have protective custody.

But the judge said she didn't see any reason for that, so she didn't grant that. But he does have a few months before he needs to surrender. He will surrender to begin that 87-month sentence on July 25th.

In Central Islip, Brynn Gingras, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HILL: Virginia Giuffre who claimed Britain's Prince Andrew abused her when she was a teenager, has died by suicide according to her family. She was 41 years old.

Her family issuing a statement saying quote, Virginia was a fierce warrior in the fight against sexual abuse and sex trafficking. She was the light that lifted so many survivors.

The mother of three was one of the most prominent accusers of wealthy sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein in 2019. She publicly alleged that Epstein had forced her to have sex with his friends, including Prince Andrew when she was just 17 years old. Prince Andrew has repeatedly denied those claims.

We'll be right back.

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[01:31:59]

HILL: Continue with our live pictures here of St. Peter's Square, and of course, St. Peter's Basilica there in the background. You can see if you've been, if you have been with us more and more people filling into that area, there of course for the funeral mass of Pope Francis, which is set to begin at 4:00 a.m. -- 4:00 a.m. Eastern time, 10:00 a.m. local time, just about two and a half hours from now.

Among the people who will be there, of course, members of the clergy, leaders of the Catholic church, and also dignitaries from around the world.

And then later the funeral procession will travel from the Vatican through Rome to the Pope's final resting place. He chose the basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore as his final resting place.

My colleague, Anderson Cooper now shows us the route that final procession will take.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: This is the Porta del Perugino. It is the exit through which the Pope's casket will come as it leaves St. Peter's Basilica. It goes by Casa Santa Marta, where the Pope lived all -- all these years. The casket will then come down this road. in this direction. Actually, leaving Vatican City now and entering the city of Rome.

COOPER (voice-over): The route is filled with traffic now, but it'll be closed off on Saturday and its likely many thousands of people will line the sidewalks trying to catch a final glimpse of the Pope's coffin.

His casket will pass this Baroque church. Francis was the first Jesuit to become Pope, and this is the first Jesuit church in Rome, Piazza del Gesu. The motorcade will also pass the Piazza De Venezia and another site familiar to many tourists The Coliseum before finally arriving at its destination.

COOPER: And this is where Pope Francis will finally be laid to rest where he'll be entombed. It's the Basilica Santa Maria Maggiore. It's a basilica Pope Francis often visited that, that he loved and that he requested he'd be buried here.

The Vatican has already released an image of his tomb. It is as the Pope requested, very simple. Just an inscription of his name, Franciscus, and a depiction of his pectoral cross. He will be the first Pope to be buried outside Vatican City in more than a hundred years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: And our thanks to Anderson for that look.

Joining me now, Sister Erin McDonald and Sister Colleen Gibson, their co-host of the podcast. Beyond the Habit, joining us.

It's great to have both of you with us. There is, I feel like there is so much to talk about it when it comes to this pope and the way that he has brought so many people perhaps into the church or brought so many people to be more aware of the church, even if they are not Catholics, including women, including young people. I know that's something you both really have a connection to.

Sister Erin, I want to start with you first. When you -- when you look at this, I know that you are, I believe, still in charge of the Digital Youth Ministry. What is it that you see in this pope that is such a connection for young people in this moment?

SISTER ERIN MCDONALD, CO-HOST, BEYOND THE HABIT PODCAST: I feel like Pope Francis is really inspirational with young people. I feel he's, you know, he energized young people, he energized so many groups of people because he himself was a model of really a pastoral approach to reach out beyond the borders and to really connect in so many ways.

[01:35:20]

I feel like he energized people around the environmental justice work that he was doing, the interfaith work that he was doing. He was really great at making people feel seen and loved and creating spaces of belonging. And that's really significant in our world today.

HILL: In terms of those spaces for belonging, those spaces for women also incredibly important. You know, Sister Colleen, he did push for more women, of course to be in roles of leadership and to expand what they could do within the church.

How much of that do you think has really impacted women who are Catholics, either in terms of keeping them, perhaps among the practicing Catholics or even bringing more women in. Did Pope Francis speak to women as well in the way that he connected with younger people?

SISTER COLLEEN GIBSON, CO-HOST, BEYOND THE HABIT PODCAST: I think he really did. You know, I think the Pope for man of his age and from the culture that he came from, he spoke the language from where he came from. But he met people where they were at, and I think he met women where they were at.

And the hopes that we had for him when he came into his papacy really was this feeling that there was, the door was opening and he -- he opened the door so that women could be in leadership so that, you know, women religious could assume certain roles. He opened the discussion around women's deaconate. You know, there is a -- a historic precedent for women to serve in the diaconal to be ordained as deacons within the church.

And so even to be open to an exploration of that discernment, I think has inspired hope for women across generations. Some will say, you know, he hasn't gone far enough, but I think he created space for dialogue and conversation to happen even when we look at the synod, these listening sessions that have happened over the last three years, he brought women in and gave them a voting role, which they have never had in a synod space.

And so, to be full members, fully participating allows, you know, women, mothers, daughters to see themselves as having a place in the church.

HILL: Which is incredibly important development.

Sister Erin, you met Pope Francis, I believe it was in 2019. What was that moment like for you?

MCDONALD: It was a really beautiful and humbling moment to meet Pope Francis in person. I was working for the Jesuits at that time. I was in Rome for an international gathering and we our delegation had an audience with Pope Francis, and he offered us a blessing and some inspirational words, very on brand for Pope Francis. They were words of hope and encouragement and encouraging joy, he, you know, encouraged us to go forth and to be, you know, people of service, to be people of justice, to be community builders to be people of unioning love and reconciliation.

And when I had the opportunity to meet him in person, it was very brief, but it, it gave me an understanding of why people feel so connected to Pope Francis. He -- he had a real grace and gift about him to -- he kind of radiated that sense of, you know, making you feel seen and loved and welcomed.

And also, you know, I can understand because I think people, people loved Pope Francis because they felt loved by him. And that was a real gift that he brought and I experienced that in meeting him.

HILL: Yes, I can see -- I can see it in your face, right, as you're reliving those moments. What it must have been like for you.

You know, Sister Colleen, when you said that he created space for dialogue and he created that, this space for women. Right. Do you believe that will continue? How important is it to you that this next Pope continue those efforts of outreach specifically for women in the church?

GIBSON: Oh, I think it's critical. I think it's critical for our church to be a listening church. And, and Francis modeled that so perfectly that he -- when he sat in audience with someone, he received them as fully as who they were wherever they came from, whatever walk of life, he was there to listen.

And I think the church needs to be a pastoral church. A church that welcomes all people. And that really, you know, Francis talked about, you know, the pastor should take on the smell of the sheep. But the church needs to take on the smell of the sheep. But if we are to be a field hospital, as Francis encouraged us to be, you know, we meet people in their woundedness and their brokenness in their full humanity. And I think for, for women church and in the world what better place than the church to create a space for encounter, inquentro, as Francis would often talk about.

[01:40:06]

HILL: Sisters Erin McDonald and Colleen Gibson, it's been a real treat to have you here. Thank you.

MCDONALD: Thank you.

GIBSON: Thank you.

HILL: During his papacy, Pope Francis took a number of trips abroad, including to Asia. Just ahead, a closer look at how his legacy is impacting the Catholic church there.

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HILL: Live images for you here from Vatican City. You can see there, of course, St. Peters Basilica St. Peters Square. You see people making their way in there for the funeral of Pope Francis, which is set to begin just a little over two hours from now. That will happen at 10:00 a.m. local time, 4:00 a.m. Eastern here in the U.S.

Crowds of mourners there for this. A historic transformative pope leaving quite a legacy for the Catholic church. A legacy of course felt around the globe.

Christina Kheng is a Catholic theologian and also Professor of Theology at the East Asian Pastoral Institute. She's joining us now live from Manila.

It's great to have you with us this hour.

Christina, when we talk about this, pope, there's been so much made about, of course how he expanded so much, the number of cardinals, I believe, some 20 appointing from some 20 different countries. And what that meant too, about bringing in more leaders in the church from around the globe, including in Asia.

How has that transformed the church in other parts of the world? CHRISTINA KHENG, CATHOLIC THEOLOGIAN: I think it's really important that the whole phase of leadership has become more globalized. the Catholic Church, it used to be quite a -- a Eurocentric church. But now things have changed, the demographics have certainly changed, and really, it's important to bring the voices and the realities of all the continents into the church, into conversations into the theology as well.

[01:45:06]

And so that really reveals the diverse phase (ph) of our faith, it's really a global faith. And Christianity it's not just a -- a Eurocentric religion, but really, it's a global religion.

HILL: To that point, what do you think it was about him personally in his approach, in the way that he spoke to people that -- that said to them, yes, this is a global religion. This is not just about European Catholics. Right, of course. He being the first non-European pope coming from Argentina how important was it that that was this message of -- of inclusivity and that he made it a point to visit so many different countries?

KHENG: It was very impactful because he is inclusive, not just in his preaching, but to the ordinary people. Most important of all, it's -- it's in how he deals with people. And you see in all the optics, he's so affable, he's so approachable. And I think he -- no Pope has ever taken so many selfies before. He's so down to earth and this really appeals to people around the world, especially people who don't see themselves as part of the hierarchical institution of the church, and even people who often feel left out.

He really makes it a point to make sure that they feel seen and heard and loved and -- and welcome. I think ultimately, that's really the ultimate message of our Christian faith that everyone is included. Everyone is loved by God. Everyone has equal dignity. And one of his favorite phrases is tu ti tu ti, you know, everyone, everyone, everyone.

And really, I feel that is the refrain that we have to carry forward as we continue our faith, as we continue our mission for Asian particular, his relational style really appeals to the Asian sensitivity because in many of our cultures, we -- we focus a lot or we face a lot of value on relationships. So, we really like a leadership style that is very present to the people, to the peripheries not -- not as a leadership that is top down or overemphasizes power and hierarchy, but a leader who is very close to the people who -- who listens to the people and who is very warm and affable it relating to the people.

HILL: Yes.

KHENG: You know, this -- this speaks a lot.

HILL: Yes. Christina, we only have a -- a short time left. we just saw some pictures of you with the Pope. When you talk about the importance of relationships right, in Asian culture, what do you think it would mean globally if the next Pope perhaps were from Asia?

KHENG: Well, I think it -- every pope from any continent would bring his special charism, his special touch to that role. Certainly, we must not rule out any continent that we have to look for the best person that is most appropriate for this time in the church and in the world. Asians would have special characteristics to contribute, but so would, you know, Africans, Latin Americans, Europeans, Oceanians, et cetera.

What's important is that we all work together, whoever the leader is and -- and to know that we are all co-responsible for the church.

HILL: Yes.

KHENG: That's -- that's what Pope Francis was emphasizing on synodality. And ultimately, we know that the life and mission of the church is not dependent on human effort alone, but it's dependent on that transcendent force in the divine realm, which is always with us.

HILL: Christina Kheng, really good to have you with us. Thank you.

KHENG: Thank you.

HILL: As the world gathers to mourn the loss of Pope Francis and to celebrate his life, Argentinians are remembering the man who dedicated so much of his life to the hardworking people of Buenos Aires.

More on his legacy ahead.

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[01:53:06]

HILL: Another live look here at Vatican City, where as you can see, St. Peter Square is filling up with those coming to take part to pay their respects as mourners for the funeral of Pope Francis said to begin just a little over two hours from now.

A short time from now too, that means that world leaders, the dignitaries will begin to arrive there for the funeral mass. Of course, there's some, some 130 delegations that have been confirmed by the Vatican, 50 world leaders that we know of, 10 sitting monarchs there. Of course, to pay their respects to remember a pontiff who is leaving a legacy of consideration and of speaking out and doing his best to make the voices of the poor and the underprivileged heard.

Pope Francis, the first pontiff from the Americans, took pride in his humble Argentinian roots, and now the people of Buenos Aires are mourning the loss of the man who championed them and they're celebrating his legacy.

Here's David Culver with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE) DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Not even two minutes into our conversation, and Father Lorenzo de Vedia, known here as Padre Toto needs the mic off him.

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CULVER (voice-over): He's got to go. As a Catholic priest working in one of Argentina's Villas. For simple, humble neighborhoods, Padre Toto's work does not stop as he pedals away.

CULVER: All right, so he said he's going 25 blocks on his bike. We try to keep up that, no, that's not him.

CULVER (voice-over): He's heading here.

CULVER: You can see a lot of these people are now just getting off the bus as they've come in from places outside of Buenos Aires.

CULVER (voice-over): A gathering of the working class.

CULVER: She's explaining to me what the (INAUDIBLE) are, and she said it's individuals who on their own will basically collect things that are to be recycled, and then they'll sell them to make a living.

CULVER (voice-over): They're here combining a plan protest for higher pay and better benefits with a warm tribute to Pope Francis.

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

[01:55:08]

CULVER: And she said Pope Francis would look around as she believes and would see this crowd and see it as his people, the humble.

CULVER (voice-over): Which explains why Padre Toto is here.

CULVER: He's clearly well known here.

CULVER (voice-over): And too busy still for a chat, suggesting we try tomorrow.

So, we do.

CULVER: How many years have you been here?

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CULVER: Twenty-five years.

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CULVER: There's a lot of prevention work they do too. He points out as a priest of the Villa, he says you're not just in charge of a parish, which is his back there, but you're part of the community and -- and you minister to the people here actively.

CULVER (voice-over): Which we witness ourselves.

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CULVER: Her son passed away.

CULVER (voice-over): Loss is shared here.

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CULVER: She says her son had his feet washed by (INAUDIBLE). By then, Cardinal Bergoglio.

CULVER (voice-over): A few years later, steps from where we sit, Luisa Rodriguez (ph) says her son was gunned down and killed. She says Cardinal Bergoglio was always here for them. And now with his passing --

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CULVER (voice-over): It's like we're left with no one in the world. He was so valuable to us, she says.

It's in part by Padre Toto feels this is no time for him to sit still, even if he too is hurting.

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CULVER: He says you have to continue on with the Pope's legacy. He said in this moment you feel a lot of sadness for the loss, but at the same time.

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CULVER: He's got to go. Okay.

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: And our thanks to David Culver.

Thanks to all of you for joining us this hour. Our coverage of the funeral of Pope Francis continues after this quick break.

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