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Trump "OK" with Short Recession; White House Wants Large Domestic Cuts and Defense Increase; Vance Not Expecting Quick End to War in Ukraine; U.S. "Mineral Diplomacy"; U.S.-Canada Relations; Russell Brand on Conditional Bail over U.K. Rape Charges; Papal Conclave Begins May 7. Aired 5-6a ET

Aired May 03, 2025 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to all of you watching here in the United States, Canada and around the world, I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN NEWSROOM.

President Donald Trump says he's OK with the prospect of a recession. Why he says the economy will do fantastically despite a short term downturn.

Slicing up the congressional budget will break down the Trump administration's push to make permanent cuts to federal programs.

Plus, the White House is digging for more natural resources overseas. How mineral diplomacy is playing out around the world.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Kim Brunhuber.

BRUNHUBER: Amid all the gloomy talk of a recession and new high tariffs, the U.S. economy just had a good run. Stocks ended the week higher and the latest jobs report was surprisingly strong.

But fears still linger that U.S. president Donald Trump's trade war could put it all in reverse. If it does lead to a short recession, the president says he'd be OK with that. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: There are many people on Wall Street say this is going to be the greatest windfall ever happened.

KRISTIN WELKER, NBC NEWS HOST: And that's my question, the long-term. Is it OK in the short-term to have a recession?

TRUMP: Remember this, look, yes, everything's OK. What we are -- I said this is a transition period. I think we're going to do fantastically. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Trump's comments come amid some mixed economic developments. Many Americans are set to feel the impact of president Trump's tariff plans now that a major shipping loophole has expired.

This exemption had opened the door for a low cost Chinese e-commerce sites to sell items to Americans without paying import tariffs. Without that exemption, those same items may be subject to tariffs of up to 145 percent.

Meanwhile, that new, better-than-expected jobs report is providing some relief. Markets on Wall Street also closed higher amid increased interest from China to begin trade talks. CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich has more.

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VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the jobs market has proven to be resilient in the face of uncertainty, 177,000 jobs added in April. Estimates were 135,000 jobs expected to be added last month.

The unemployment rate held steady at 4.2 percent, which is historically low; 58,000 jobs were added in health care and social services and 24,000 in leisure and hospitality. Manufacturing saw a decline of 1,000 jobs and federal government jobs saw its third straight month of declines, down 9,000 in April and down 26,000 since January.

Those can be traced to the DOGE cuts. Now the stronger-than-expected jobs report and China's openness to trade talks buoyed stocks on Friday. The S&P 500 closed out its nine-day winning streak, up 83 points, the longest in 20 years.

And Friday's close erased its losses since president Trump announced his reciprocal tariffs on April 2nd. The Dow closed up more than 564 points and the Nasdaq was up 267 points -- back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: President Trump's new budget proposal cuts more than $100 billion from non-defense spending. And as you can imagine, not everyone is happy with it. CNN's Jeff Zeleny reports from the White House.

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JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: And now the act of governing will begin as the White House released its first budget blueprint on Friday, really a spending proposal calling for dramatic cuts across the board, at least in terms of domestic programs, $163 billion in non-defense cuts.

The White House, of course, is just proposing this. Congress will ultimately decide what the budget is. But it's really setting a two- month or so battle between Republicans and Democrats as well for the funding of major programs.

The White House is calling for significant cuts to the NIH, the National Institutes of Health, for example, proposing a cut of one- third of its overall budget to the CDC. The Centers for Disease Control, proposing a 40 percent cut to its budget on defense.

However, the White House is saying it's offering a slight increase as well as to Homeland Security. But Republicans on Capitol Hill actually lashed out against the White House in pretty unusual fashion on Friday, saying that those defense increases simply were not enough.

Senator Mitch McConnell and others called it a budget gimmick. So the bottom line here is the next phase of this Trump presidency is going to be a test, without question, to see if they can convince Republicans and a few Democrats as well, to pass their budget.

[05:05:06]

So budgets, of course, are a blueprint, a set of priorities. But the White House at least, said the president spent his day in Mar-a-Lago. They put out their blueprint, the beginning of governing and a test for this administration starts anew -- Jeff Zeleny, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Trump's tariff chaos and the rising cost of living are big issues for Australians as their national election winds down. Polls have closed in eastern Australia, while voters in the west have a little less than an hour to cast their ballots.

Nearly half of the country's 18 million voters had already made their choices before the election. Current prime minister Anthony Albanese of the Labor Party and Peter Dutton of the center right Liberal Party are the main contenders to be prime minister.

Here's Albanese casting his ballot in Sydney a few hours ago. Today's vote is being closely watched abroad for any indications of a Trump- inspired swing away from conservatives.

All right. When we come back, President Zelenskyy's plea to allies after the latest Russian strikes leave dozens injured in Ukraine. And the White House is reportedly proposing a ceasefire that includes gaining access to crucial minerals. But this isn't about Ukraine. We'll look at the growing influence of mineral diplomacy.

And Canadian prime minister Mark Carney will head to the U.S. This week. He's preparing for some tough talk with Donald Trump. Those stories and more when we come back. Please stay with us.

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BRUNHUBER: To one of our top stories, elections in Australia. Polls have closed in the east of the country, while voters in the west have a little less than an hour to cast their ballots. Alex Bolt is a reporter with 9News Australia and joins us from Sydney.

Thank you so much for being here with us. So it sounds as though it's a very tight race.

What are the latest numbers telling you about where things stand?

ALEX BOLT, 9NEWS AUSTRALIA: Well, it really could be anyone's game at this stage. Polling is suggesting a Labor victory. It's less clear on whether they'll be able to form a majority government. But it is important to say that the polls have been wrong before.

We're standing outside a local polling booth. It closed just over an hour ago. And inside, they are painstakingly counting those votes by hand. Voting is compulsory here in Australia and millions headed out today to cast their ballots at local schools, churches and town halls.

We did also see the two leaders who were vying to be the next prime minister of Australia, casting their ballots in their local electorates. We have Anthony Albanese here. He is our current prime minister and he is the head of the Labor Party.

We also have Peter Dutton, who is the leader of the more conservative Liberal Party. For the past five weeks, they've been crisscrossing the country in an exhausting election campaign. And the number one issue that has been coming up for Australian voters is cost of living.

Australians are really feeling the pinch when it comes to petrol, groceries, their bills and also interest rates on their mortgages. And the political parties have really been trying to tap into that.

The Liberal Party is arguing that they will have a more conservative management of the nation's books. They've also been saying that they'll be able to cut the price of petrol; whereas Labor has been campaigning on cheaper health care.

So in the coming hours, we'll see the votes start to roll in and we'll get a clearer idea of which ones Australians will be choosing tonight.

BRUNHUBER: Cost of living a huge issue there.

I want to ask you about another potential issue. That's the effect Donald Trump may have had on the campaign. Now we saw in the Canadian election this week it was decisive.

So has there been a so-called Trump effect on the election there?

BOLT: The name Donald Trump has been mentioned quite a lot during the election campaign and some analysts think that it will work in Labor's favor, especially after that anti-Trump swing that we saw against conservative politicians in Canada recently. The Labor Party, which is the sitting government at the moment, has

been arguing that, in these political global times of uncertainty, that Australians should stick with stability. We have also had a long- standing free trade agreement with the U.S.

And their language around Donald Trump did change quite a bit when we saw those tariffs come into effect. They described them as unfriendly.

And then we also have the leader of the Liberal Party, Peter Dutton, who has been described as his opponents as a mini Australian Trump. He's been trying to distance himself from that because it doesn't seem to be playing well with Australian voters.

BRUNHUBER: Interesting. Well, it'll be fascinating to see how this unfolds. Really appreciate having you on this, Alex Bolt in Sydney. Thanks so much.

Drone strikes in Ukraine reportedly left at least 47 people wounded, including an 11-year-old child. Ukrainian authorities say Russia launched a massive attack on Kharkiv in the northeast on Friday. It sparked fires in homes, apartment buildings and warehouses across the city.

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy urged his allies to stand up to Russia, saying, quote, "Almost every night in Ukraine turns into a nightmare that costs lives."

U.S. vice president JD Vance claims that president Trump managed to secure a really big breakthrough in the peace process when he told FOX News that he doesn't believe the war will end anytime soon. Here he is.

J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's going to be up to the Russians and the Ukrainians. Now that each side knows what the others' terms for peace are, it's going to be up to them to come to an agreement and stop this brutal, brutal conflict. It's not going anywhere but it's not going to end anytime soon.

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BRUNHUBER: CNN's Melissa Bell joins us live from Paris.

Melissa, take us through the latest comments and what they might signal.

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, there are hopes after this mineral deal was signed this week, long awaited, much discussed, that there could be some kind of at least continued American stake in this.

We've been hearing, according to Reuters, some comments from President Zelenskyy being reported this morning.

[05:15:04] Speaking to that Vatican meeting, you'll remember between president Trump and President Zelenskyy, saying that it was the best meeting, according to Zelenskyy, the two men had ever had.

Speaking to the fact that they had come to an agreement on the fact that it was a 30-day truce that was now needed and that ceasefire that Moscow now needed to agree to. And that was the first step toward peace.

These comments, of course, come even as Ukraine continues to count the cost. You mentioned that a moment ago, Kim. Those strikes on Kharkiv last night, it was just after 9:30 pm. There are many wounded.

But overall in the country, seven people died on Friday. There were 61 wounded overall. But that massive drone strike on Kharkiv, again targeting, since President Zelenskyy, civilians and a reminder of the urgent need for the world to continue, he says, to put pressure on Moscow. Kim.

BRUNHUBER: All right, appreciate that. Melissa Bell in Paris, thanks so much.

Well, the deal signed with Ukraine shows the growing importance of what can be called mineral diplomacy. The agreement gives the U.S. preferential rights to mineral extraction there. Kyiv will have the final say in what and where is being mined.

Materials like graphite, lithium, uranium and others are essential to the production of electronics, energy networks as well as some weapons systems. Its even richer deposits of rare earth minerals is one reason why Trump has his sights set on Greenland.

And now Reuters is reporting that the U.S. is pushing the Democratic Republic of Congo and Rwanda to sign a peace accord at the White House in about two months. Rwanda is accused of backing rebels who have seized the two largest cities in the eastern DRC.

That deal would reportedly include bilateral mineral agreements that would bring billions of dollars of Western investment to the region. Now for more on this, I'm joined by Gracelin Baskaran. She's the director of the Critical Minerals Security Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Thank you so much for being up with us early here on this. So this idea of mineral diplomacy, it's something we might more generally associate with China, for instance, not the U.S. I mean, historically, at least, it seems to have dramatically changed, though under president Trump.

So how far behind is the U.S. compared to China?

GRACELIN BASKARAN. DIRECTOR, CRITICAL MINERALS SECURITY PROGRAM, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Thanks so much for having me.

So we've seen that China has actually built its mineral diplomacy over the better part of 40 to 50 years.

And what it's strategically done is connect its foreign policy by using things like its Belt and Road initiative to use infrastructure investments in developing countries around mineral projects to develop them and connected it with its domestic industrial strategy.

Which means it brought those minerals back home to process in China and then manufactured the final good. As they always say, like, you know, for many decades as Americans, we were used to goods that were made in China. And that was because they mined the material often abroad, brought it home, processed and manufactured.

BRUNHUBER: All right. So obviously we're talking about this issue in the context of the deal with Ukraine. I know you've had concerns about how practical that deal is. It sounds as though the U.S. doesn't have a great idea of where the minerals actually are. Getting them out will take a long time, cost a lot of money.

So plenty of challenges. In other words, a minerals deal with Greenland would also have many challenges for different reasons. And it sounds as though the proposed DRC-Rwanda deal piece for minerals might be more feasible and lucrative for the U.S.

Is that right?

BASKARAN: That's right. So each of these countries has a mining industry that's developed at various levels. And the DRC is arguably by far the most developed. So for example, it is a market that has been heavily saturated by China.

When we look at the 19 biggest copper and cobalt projects in the DRC, 15 of them are either owned by the Chinese or have significant Chinese equity. But what this means is that there are more projects that are shovel ready that could have offtake ready for the United States.

And they have quite a diverse basket of resources, from the biggest cobalt reserves in the world, highest grade copper reserves, lithium, nickel. So we could see more direct offtake from a place like the DRC. And importantly, a number of American companies have stated interest in the last few months in the DRC, like cobalt metals in Freeport.

BRUNHUBER: All right. But it's one thing to get the minerals. It's another thing to process them. And that's another challenge for the U.S.

As I understand it, even the U.S. itself has plenty of rare earth minerals but almost all that we extract here, then they're sent to China for processing and refining.

So how big of a challenge would it be to develop the technology and capacity to do that here?

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BASKARAN: That is our biggest challenge, is building those processing capabilities. When we look at some of our key minerals like cobalt, copper, lithium, nickel, graphite, rare earths, China processes between 40 percent and 90 percent of those.

There's a couple of challenges that we have. One is our domestic permitting. Second, it requires significant amounts of capital. And in the case of China, that's often provided by the state or heavily subsidized by the state.

Mineral prices are generally pretty low across the board now, except for copper and gold, which undermines that profitability. And the third thing is the technical knowhow. However, we have seen that the U.S. government has put significant amounts of resources to building these capabilities.

We have a graphite processing facility in Louisiana. We're building our rare earths processing facilities in Texas and California. So we are looking at a longer-term challenge with vertically integrating the rocks with the processing stage.

But it's an area where we're moving. I note that minerals diplomacy may actually have more parties than the U.S. and the country with the resources.

And it will be interesting to see how countries like Australia, Canada and Saudi Arabia, which all have significant processing ambitions and sometimes more advanced capabilities than us, step in to support the U.S. in these partnerships.

BRUNHUBER: All right. But importantly there, you said a keyword. That's longer term. I mean, the thing about mineral diplomacy is it isn't cheap and the timelines are long.

And, you know, we're talking about all of this in the context of massive U.S. cuts to government spending and to foreign aid.

So can a purely transactional approach to international relations work when it comes to U.S. mineral diplomacy?

Or do you need the other piece of the puzzle for it all to work?

BASKARAN: It's going to require pulling out the full toolkit. So some of the things that we're going to need to see is concessional financing to projects abroad. Ultimately, the United States doesn't have a state-owned miner and we don't mine as a country. We can only create an enabling environment for the private sector.

So concessional financing, providing support to things like geological mapping in the Democratic Republic of Congo; 80 percent of the country has yet to be mapped, which means that that's an area for something like our U.S. Geological Survey to provide support to infrastructure development.

Only 1 percent of the Democratic Republic of Congo is electrified in rural areas where a lot of minerals are. So the U.S. is going to have to provide a more holistic package of support to these countries beyond just security.

Because ultimately a mining company can't afford to build the mine, the roads, the energy, everything, the processing that goes with it. So we're going to have to see us put our resources, even in an era of DOGE, behind our ambitions, if we want rubber to hit the road.

BRUNHUBER: Yes. Well put. It's a fascinating subject with clearly growing importance. Really appreciate you breaking it all down for us. Gracelin Baskaran, thank you so much for joining us.

BASKARAN: Thanks for having me.

BRUNHUBER: India has banned all imported goods from Pakistan as tensions between the two countries remain high. India's ministry of commerce says the ban is effective immediately and is in the interest of national security and public policy.

Tensions between the two countries have been escalating since last week. That's when gunmen massacred at least 26 civilians in a part of disputed Kashmir that's controlled by India. India accuses Pakistan of supporting terrorists in the area. Pakistan rejects those accusations.

India held military training exercises in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh on Friday. Meanwhile, Pakistan's military says it successfully tested a surface to surface missile on Saturday. Officials in Pakistan say they think India is likely to strike in Pakistan controlled Kashmir in the coming days.

Diplomats from a number of countries are urging calm from both sides.

Well, he was a legend in the world of hip-hop. But prosecutors will work to show a very different side of Sean Diddy Combs in court next week. He faces allegations that he raped, drugged, abused and violently assaulted women for years. We'll have a preview of that case next on CNN.

Plus, Britain's Prince Harry says he hopes to make amends with members of the royal family. We'll look at why he's calling on his father, the king, for reconciliation. All that and more coming up. Please stay with us.

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BRUNHUBER: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Kim Brunhuber. Let's check some of today's top stories.

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BRUNHUBER (voice-over): U.S. President Donald Trump is trying to offer reassurances as his trade war feeds recession fears. He says the economy will be, quote, "OK" in the long term, even if there is a short recession. Trump's remarks come amid a surprisingly strong jobs report, defying

expectations. On Friday, the U.S. added 177,000 jobs in April. That's only a slight slowdown from March's revised numbers. Meanwhile, the unemployment rate sat unchanged at 4.2 percent.

Voters in Australia have been casting ballots in national elections today. Polls in Western Australia close in about half an hour, while voting ended in the east about 90 minutes ago. The main contenders for prime minister are current prime minister Anthony Albanese of the Labor Party and Peter Dutton of the center right Liberal Party.

Donald Trump had a significant impact on the Canadian general election and, a little more than a week later, prime minister Mark Carney will head to Washington for talks with the U.S. president on May 6th.

Carney and his Liberal Party rode to victory with tough talk against the Trump tariffs. Now he'll head into a meeting in the coming week, anticipating hard negotiations and difficult conversations.

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MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: I go there with the expectation of constructive, difficult but constructive discussions. That's the spirit of the conversations that the president and I had.

You know, you go to these meetings well-prepared, understanding the objectives of your counterpart and always acting in the best interests of Canada. And we'll go from there.

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BRUNHUBER: Carney has been signaling that, when he's in Washington, there will be no tolerance for any talk of Canada becoming a 51st state. CNN's Paula Newton reports from the nation's capital, Ottawa.

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PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Prime minister Mark Carney, inside of a week of becoming prime minister, will be in Washington, D.C. And he will stare down some of the threats coming from the U.S. president.

He really laid two things out here. One is expectations.

He said, in fact, look, do not expect white smoke like a conclave here.

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We are not expecting any big moves on the tariffs. What we are expecting is a tough negotiation and difficult conversations.

What he also did, though, was pretty much throw up some sun, if you will, the president's way saying, look, you are a tough negotiator and, in so doing, also lay the table for some better perhaps and more comfortable conversations, even if they are tough. Listen.

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CARNEY: As others who are good negotiators and he's one of the best negotiators, they respect strength. That's why we're building Canada strong. There's lots of reasons to build Canada strong.

But the point is and I will make this point repeatedly, we have more than enough to do here at home. That point about we can give ourselves more than the Americans can take away is absolutely right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: Now a reminder here that this prime minister was elected after some fairly strident and harsh comeback to Donald Trump after he insinuated that Canada should be a 51st state.

In terms of a flex on that move, the other surprise from Mark Carney is that King Charles will be delivering the throne speech here in the last week of May. He made it very clear that this is a symbol of Canada's independence and sovereignty.

And the governor general of Canada, the woman who represents the king here, Mary Simon, wrote in her release on this, that the historic honor matches the weight of our times.

And again, in so doing, Mark Carney making it very clear that he will not tolerate any discussion of Canada being a 51st state -- Paula Newton, CNN, Ottawa.

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BRUNHUBER: U.S. President Donald Trump says he's revoking Harvard's tax exempt status following campus protests over the war in Gaza. It is part of a debate over free speech, political ideology and federal funding at the Ivy League school.

Harvard's president slammed the move, calling it highly illegal and destructive to the university. U.S. law specifically prohibits presidents from directing the IRS to investigate anyone.

Musician Sean Diddy Combs heads to criminal court next week. He's accused of running a criminal enterprise, where he and others coerced women into sexual situations and forced them to have sex with male sex workers. And we're learning more about how prosecutors may present the case against Combs. CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister explains.

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ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: We are getting some new details on the criminal trial of Sean Diddy Combs, which is set to begin on Monday with jury selection.

Now while the witness list has not been made public by the court, sources have given me an indication of some of the individuals that we may see take the stand during this trial.

Cassie Ventura, who is the ex-girlfriend of Sean Combs and the musician, she is going to be the star witness in this case. Now Cassie Ventura is the only alleged victim who has decided to testify under her real name. But the judge has allowed other alleged victims to testify under pseudonyms so that their identity will be protected.

I hear that in addition to Cassie Ventura, the government has three other key witnesses. So a total of four key witnesses who will take the stand to discuss their allegations against Sean Combs.

Now, of course, there will also be corroborating witnesses who take the stand, either to corroborate some of those other key witnesses or to add some relevant information. I'm hearing that one of those witnesses will be a friend of Cassie Ventura's.

I am hearing that another one of those witnesses will be a male sex worker. And I hear from a source that it's possible that additional male sex workers may also take the stand.

Now at the center of the government's case in the indictment, they said, are these so-called freakoffs, which the government has described essentially as drug-fueled sex parties, where Combs and others allegedly forced women into sex acts, oftentimes with male sex workers.

So that could possibly give some indication of the testimony that we may hear from that sex worker. Now this trial is anticipated to run up to two months. Sean Combs faces five charges, including racketeering, sex trafficking and transportation to engage in prostitution.

And remember, Combs is also facing more than 60 civil suits. Those civil suits are completely separate from this criminal case. But I do hear that many of the accusers who have already come forward with civil claims against Combs will be testifying in this trial -- back to you.

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BRUNHUBER: British comedian and actor Russell Brand is out on bail following a preliminary appearance on sexual assault charges. London police charged the 49-year old last month with rape, oral rape and indecent assault and two counts of sexual assault involving four women.

[05:35:00]

Police say the alleged incidents happened between 1999 and 2005. Brand has consistently denied any allegations of non-consensual sex. After he was charged last month, he said he had been a fool and a sex addict in his younger days but that he was never a rapist.

Brand is scheduled to appear next in London's Old Bailey court on May 30th.

Britain's Prince Harry is revealing details about his estranged relationship with his father, King Charles. The Duke of Sussex says the king stopped speaking to him because of his legal battle to restore security for him and his wife and children when they visit the U.K.

Now Prince Harry says he hopes to reconcile with his family. CNN's Max Foster has the story.

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PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: I would love reconciliation with my family.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prince Harry revealing he no longer speaks to his father, King Charles, in an explosive BBC interview.

PRINCE HARRY: You know, there's no point in continuing to fight anymore. As I said, life is precious. I don't know how much longer my father has. He won't speak to me because of this security stuff. But it would be nice to reconcile.

FOSTER (voice-over): The Duke of Sussex spoke to the BBC after losing a court case over his security arrangements when he and his family visit the United Kingdom. Harry saying Friday's ruling makes it impossible for his family to return to the U.K.

PRINCE HARRY: Obviously, pretty gutted about the decision. We thought it was going to go our way. I can't see a world in which I would be bringing my wife and children back to the U.K. at this point.

FOSTER (voice-over): The British government downgraded Prince Harry's security in 2020 after he and Meghan stepped down as working royals and moved to California, where they're raising their children, Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet.

PRINCE HARRY: When that decision happened, I couldn't believe it. The one thing that I could rely on is my family keeping me safe.

FOSTER (voice-over): A palace spokesperson issued a statement about the court's ruling, telling CNN issues raised by Harry in the interview were "examined repeatedly and meticulously by the courts, with the same conclusion reached on each occasion."

The Duke of Sussex also talked about the years-long rift with the royal family. He said the publication of his book, "Spare," in 2023 ripped open old wounds after he shared scathing and intimate details about his experience as a royal.

PRINCE HARRY: , of course, some members of my family will never forgive me for writing a book., of course, they will never forgive me for lots of things.

FOSTER (voice-over): But losing this case, Harry said, is a sticking point.

PRINCE HARRY: The only thing that I've been asking for throughout this whole process is safety. I love my country. I always have done, despite what some people in that country have done.

FOSTER (voice-over): Max Foster, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: All right. Still ahead, lawmakers are pushing new online safety legislation for children. Why some tech giants are pushing back. We'll have more on that next. Stay with us.

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BRUNHUBER: Under a newly proposed federal law, people would be required to verify their age before downloading apps from Apple and Google's app stores. A pair of Republican lawmakers have proposed the App Store Accountability Act, which would mark the first major step in nationwide online safety legislation.

Now in theory, the law would make it easier for tech platforms to protect kids from violent and sexual material and predators. Apple and Google would be required to categorize users into four age groups: young child, anyone under the age of 13, child and anyone between 13 and 15.

A teenager would be 16 or 17 and those over the age of 18 would be considered an adult. App stores would be required to share that data with app developers and parental consent would be required before minors could download or make purchases through an app.

Lawmakers say it would provide a safer online experience for kids and social media companies like Meta, X and Snap are supportive of making app stores the central clearinghouse for age verification.

Apple and Google, on the other hand, have pushed back on the legislation, saying developers should share the responsibility for age verification.

I want to bring in Prem Trivedi, who is the policy director for New America's Open Technology Institute and he joins us out of Washington.

Thank you so much for being here with us. So such an interesting topic here. Most people agree about the problem. Young people are able to access too much harmful online content but no one agrees about the solution.

Now the congressmen behind the bill argues it would essentially be like kind of showing your ID at a liquor store if you want to buy beer.

You disagree? PREM TRIVEDI, POLICY DIRECTOR, NEW AMERICA'S OPEN TECHNOLOGY

INSTITUTE: Well, first of all, Kim, thanks for having me. I appreciate being here with you.

And I think I'd start by saying the overall intent of the bill is to keep kids safer online. And as a parent, I share that urgent priority.

But what I want to note is that online age verification laws in general are flawed vehicles for achieving that aim. They pose privacy and security risks that are different from the risks that come with showing your ID and checking your ID at a liquor store or grocery store in the real world.

First of all, that age verification doesn't just get applied to minors. It's a check that's performed against everyone online and here at the app store level.

So when you hand over that ID at the grocery store, at the liquor store, you don't do it as soon as you enter the store and before you've even decided what you're going to purchase, whether that's a bag of chips or a fruit or something that's age restricted, like alcohol.

The proposal here would have us do that at the moment that we enter the app store in the first place, regardless of what content we're trying to access.

And so I think it's really worth underlining that, you know, the other thing that's different in the online age verification context is you hand over that sensitive ID, whether it's your -- whether it's a drivers license or a face scan or something like that.

And you don't get to just put it back in your pocket like you do in the brick and mortar store. The multiple entities potentially are handling that information, storing it. And that opens up a bunch of risks of misuse.

So I think these are concerns we should be thinking about. And the last thing I'll say is we should be especially concerned in these political times with sweeping measures that governments can then leverage to determine who is and isn't able to access types of online content.

And the app store level age verification really raises those concerns prominently.

BRUNHUBER: Right. OK. So basically the primary things are security and access. Now as it stands, people can get around the existing measures on platforms like Instagram and TikTok pretty easily.

Wouldn't this at least make it harder to circumvent?

TRIVEDI: I think the interesting thing about app store level age verification is it actually opens up significant circumvention risks.

And so think of it this way, there are ways to access websites, whether we're talking about social media sites or other things that you'd want to keep kids away from even more urgently that are available not just via app but on the web itself.

[05:45:04]

In fact, many websites are not available via app at all. And so it's a really important circumvention problem that arises when you say, well, we'll do it all through the app store.

It sounds simple, it sounds elegant but it has these major concerns about using websites on devices other than your phone to potentially circumvent where the app store would be a gate.

BRUNHUBER: So this is a nationwide measure but several states have already passed age verification laws.

So what have you seen?

Or what have you learned so far in terms of maybe lessons or unintended consequences from these state level implementations?

TRIVEDI: I think the big picture thing to note is that the constitutionality of age verification measures is very much under review. So I believe Louisiana was the first state to pass an age verification law in 2022.

But since then, many other states have followed. States have followed suit, including Arkansas and Virginia and Texas. And that Texas law is actually the subject of a Supreme Court challenge.

And we should be hearing from the Supreme Court later this summer about how they want to do line drawing on constitutionality and free expression issues in the context of age verification.

So there are constitutional concerns based both on the fact that minors have free speech rights but also on the fact that age verification laws affect everybody, minors and adults. And I think that often gets lost in the discussion.

BRUNHUBER: I mean, the problem is, you know, so many parents out there -- I'm among them -- are trying desperately to find tools to protect their children from harmful online content. But I was struck by something I read when Australia was looking at implementing laws.

A report to their government said basically that age assurance technology has not been successfully implemented anywhere in the world.

I mean, do you agree with that?

And is there out there a better way, even if it isn't perfect?

TRIVEDI: It's a great question, Kim. I think in a report that we wrote last year at the Open Technology Institute sort of goes through the challenges and tradeoffs of different measures of age assurance, all the way up from sort of basic age estimation techniques to what we call true and hard age verification with identifiers.

Each, of course, as you move up to checking an ID and then matching that when you have a specific birthdate, accuracy goes up. But the tools along that spectrum have varying degrees of accuracy.

The problem is that each of them -- I think the Australia reports this; a French report also notes this. There are tradeoffs to accuracy, to privacy and security for each of them.

And I will say, you know, what we need is further study on the privacy preserving methods for doing age verification, narrowly applied and in narrow context. But I'll also say to your point, we are all grasping for tools to keep kids safer online.

There are other methods, right?

There are parental controls in apps and there are parental controls in even the, you know, companies like Apple and Google apply. There are we can look and should look harder at transparency measures for social media companies online and other apps.

We should look harder at privacy and security by design principles and comprehensive privacy protections for children and everyone online. So we are not without tools in the toolkit to help keep kids safer online.

BRUNHUBER: Yes. Or just don't give your kid a phone.

I guess not.

(LAUGHTER)

BRUNHUBER: Not practical for most parents out there. We'll have to see where this latest measure ends up. Prem Trivedi, thank you so much for helping us analyze it. Really appreciate it.

TRIVEDI: Thank you.

BRUNHUBER: Well, as the papal conclave assembles in Vatican City, there's a new chimney atop the Sistine Chapel. Coming up, why Catholics will be watching that chimney very closely in the week ahead. Please stay with us.

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BRUNHUBER: Scientists have worked for decades to develop a universal antivenom that cures poisonous snake bites. Well, now they're on the verge of a major breakthrough thanks to one man, Tim Friede. His blood contains antibodies that react to neurotoxins from 19 different species of snakes. This after he was bitten hundreds of times by some of the world's

deadliest serpents over the course of 18 years. Earlier, CNN sat down with Friede to learn more about his mission.

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TIM FRIEDE, SNAKE VENOM RESEARCHER: What I do is I drive venom out very specifically right to the microgram. And I have a lot of notes and Excel files where I hit these particular windows to where I know I can boost up before a bite.

I don't just take the bite because that can kill you. I properly boost up and methodically take notes and weigh the venoms out very specifically. It's very important to do. My goal is always to do six milligrams. That can achieve the highest level possible IgG. And that's exactly how I did it.

I'm helping humanity. I know I'm helping somebody 8,000 miles away I can't talk to. And that makes me feel really, really good, that everything I did wasn't in vain or, you know, no pun intended.

BRUNHUBER (voice-over): These developments could help curb the threat of poisonous snake bites globally. Experts believe neurotoxins kill nearly 200 people a day and leave 400,000 people a year with disabilities.

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BRUNHUBER: Cardinals are gathering at the Vatican to prepare for next week's papal conclave to choose a successor to Pope Francis. CNN's Rafael Romo explains why all the eyes will now be on the roof of the Sistine Chapel.

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RAFAEL ROMO, CNN HOST AND U.S. CORRESPONDENT: It's yet another sign that preparations to choose a new pope are well underway here at the Vatican.

On Friday morning, the Corpo dei Vigili del Fuoco, the Vatican fire brigade, began to put up the chimney stack on the roof of the Sistine Chapel that will be used to announce the election of a new pope.

The conclave to choose Pope Francis' successor will begin next Wednesday, May 7th. The Vatican also announced earlier this week that, since voting will begin in the afternoon of the first day of the conclave, there will only be one round of voting on Wednesday.

On subsequent days, the Holy See said in a statement, two ballots are held in the morning and two in the afternoon. In keeping with tradition, after the votes are counted, all ballots are burned.

And here's where the chimney takes a prominent role, because, during the conclave, if a ballot is inconclusive, black smoke will come out. If a pope is selected, white smoke will billow out of the chimney.

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Signaling to the world that the Roman Catholic Church has a new leader.

How long will it take to choose a new pope?

Well, if history is any indication, it will be decided in a matter of days. All conclaves that took place in the 20th and 21st centuries concluded within a week of the cardinals gathering. That was certainly the case during the last two conclaves.

It took only two days to choose Benedict XVI and Francis. The longest conclave on record lasted almost three years, from November 1268 to September 1271.

And while we don't know yet who the new pope will be, nor the name he will choose, John has historically been the most common papal name; 21 popes have chosen that name throughout the history of the Roman Catholic Church -- Rafael Romo, CNN, Rome.

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BRUNHUBER: Well, people try plenty of things to ease their aching back but how about riding roller coasters?

Have a look at this. At 85 years old, this German grandmother named Ursel found that the amusement park ride seemed to make her back pain vanish. She comes to the park once a week and rides the coaster up to 50 times a visit. She's been doing this since she turned 72. That is 13 years of pain-free ups, downs and loop-de-loops.

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URSEL, ROLLER COASTER AFICIONADO (through translator): I was feeling better and better and, over time, the pain was blown away by the roller coaster ride. It was really great, like a miracle. My physiotherapist says he can't do what the roller coaster does.

BRUNHUBER (voice-over): Ursel says she started all this when her back started hurting due to a misaligned hip. She keeps moving while on board, otherwise she says it wouldn't work out so well.

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BRUNHUBER: I have back pain. I guess it's worth a try.

That wraps up this hour of CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Kim Brunhuber. For all of you in North America. Please stay tuned for "CNN THIS MORNING," which is next. And then for the rest of you watching across the world, it's "AFRICAN VOICES: CHANGEMAKERS."