Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

CNN International: Netanyahu: It's Time To Start "Final Moves" In Gaza; Trump Asked About Upholding The Constitution: "I Don't Know"; Hearing Underway Over Trump's Use Of Aliens Enemies Act; Pakistan, India Downgrade Ties After Deadly Attack; Industry Sources Shaken By Trump's Movie Tariff Plan; Jury Selection Begins For Sean "Diddy" Combs Trial. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired May 05, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:40]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to our viewers all around the world. I'm Max Foster and this is CNN NEWSROOM.

Let's get straight to our breaking news this hour.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is sending a chilling warning to the people warning to the people of Gaza, saying, quote, it's time to start the final moves. His remarks come just a day after Israels security cabinet approved expanding the war. One minister calls it a plan to finally conquer Gaza, saying, quote, it's time to stop fearing the word "occupation".

Now, an Israeli source says the escalation will happen after U.S. President Donald Trump visits the region next week. If no hostage deal with Hamas is reached. Whether there's a deal or not, Mr. Netanyahu is making clear that Israel will hold on to land that it captures. He's vowing to move Gaza's population, saying it's for the protection.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): One thing will be clear, there will be no in and out. We'll call it reserves to come hold territory. We're not going to enter and then exit the area, only to carry out raids afterwards. That's not the plan. The intention is the opposite.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Jeremy Diamond joins us now from Jerusalem. It does feel like a very different strategy from the sort of strategy we were talking about, you know, many months ago, the word of "occupation" wasn't mentioned.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's exactly right. And it is central to the strategy that the Israeli military is now preparing to carry out following this approval from the Israeli security cabinet just yesterday, they will be calling up tens of thousands of additional reservists in order to carry out this expanded ground operation in Gaza, which, according to one Israeli official, will involve, quote, the conquest of territory and remaining there. "Remaining there" means occupation of large swaths of the Gaza Strip, potentially for months or even years.

And alongside this massive ground operation that they are preparing for here, there will also be the mass displacement of Palestinians, seemingly from the northern and the central part of the Gaza Strip, moving them to the southern part of Gaza. And it's important to note that as the Israeli security cabinet approves this expanded ground operation, calling up these tens of thousands of reservists, this is something that has stoked quite a bit of division within Israeli society. The families of the hostages, for example, and a majority of Israelis who want to see the war end and want to see a deal to release the hostages, you know, very much in contradiction with what the Israeli government is doing here. And that hostage, a family forum accusing the Israeli prime minister and his government of giving up on the hostages and instead favoring this this new expanded ground operation, which they also fear will put the remaining living hostages lives in danger -- Max.

FOSTER: Yeah. And also, at the same time, we've got Israel launching strikes on Houthi targets in Yemen. And that's for the first time in months. Jeremy.

DIAMOND: That's right. The Israeli military tonight striking Houthi targets in Yemen, including at the port of Hodeidah, which the Israeli military says was being used in order to bring weapons and other military equipment in from Iran, which supports these Houthi militants in Yemen. This was in direct retaliation for that ballistic missile which struck yesterday right next to Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport. You can see just by the size of the crater that that ballistic missile left, that it could have been far, far worse for Israel. It could have been a very deadly incident had it actually struck the airport or another populated area in in Israel.

The question now is following these strikes in, in Yemen, which, as you rightly note, are the first time Israel has struck the Houthis in months. Will Israel now also carry out action against Iran? Because there has been significant, there have been significant calls both within the Israeli government as well as among leaders of the Israeli opposition in Israels parliament for Israel to carry out a direct retaliation against Iran for its role in sponsoring and supporting those Houthi militants -- remains to be seen whether that is a step that Israel will take.

[15:05:05]

FOSTER: Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much for joining us from Jerusalem.

Well, President Donald Trump says the United States will help get food aid to Gaza. Speaking a few minutes ago in the White House, the president said people in the region were being mistreated by Hamas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to help the people of Gaza get some food. People are starving and were going to help them get some food. A lot of people are making it very, very bad. What you -- if you look, Hamas is making it impossible because they're taking everything that's brought in. But we're going to help the people of Gaza because they're being treated very badly by Hamas. Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, press.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Later this hour, President Trump is expected to meet with the American ballerina freed from Russian detention as part of a prisoner exchange. Comments made over the weekend by the president still reverberating today. In an NBC interview, he seemed unsure when asked whether he'd uphold the U.S. Constitution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Don't you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States as president?

TRUMP: I don't know. I have to respond by saying, again, I have brilliant lawyers that work for me, and they are going to obviously follow what the Supreme Court said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Let's turn to CNN's Kevin Liptak at the White House.

Well, you know, that's the key question, isn't it? Will he do what the Supreme Court says? And that speaks to the Constitution? So how much of a question is it?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. Well, it is a question of whether or not he will abide by the court's orders, particularly when it comes to this question of immigration. He has a number of these cases now tied up in the American legal system. You have the man that was deported mistakenly from Maryland. You have this question of birthright citizenship, which the president is trying to revoke.

That line of questioning that he engaged with over the weekend on "Meet the Press" was specifically related to this question of due process and whether everyone on American soil, including undocumented immigrants, are afforded due process. Of course, the U.S. Constitution, the Fifth Amendment, does specify that they are essentially allowed to plead their case before a judge, before any action is taken against them. The president in this interview saying that he did not know whether that was the case for undocumented migrants, essentially saying that in order for this system of mass deportations that he promised as a candidate, in order for that to be carried out in mass, that he will need to suspend due process in the case of certain immigrants.

Of course, left open is the question of one how you would prove that these are undocumented immigrants, or two, how you would prove that they were criminals, which is what the administration has been alleging for the vast majority of people that they're deporting under this decades-old law known as the Alien Enemies Act, that allows for summary deportations without that due process.

And, so the president, quite striking remarks there, particularly when he says that he doesn't know whether he himself has to uphold the Constitution despite taking the oath of office just over 100 days ago. That says that he would vow to protect and defend the constitution of the United States.

Now, in this interview, there was sort of a second constitutional issue that arose, which is this issue of whether or not he would be able or be interested in serving a third term in office. The 22nd Amendment of the Constitution specifies that a president can only serve two terms, but that hasn't stopped allies of the president from talking about the prospect that he could serve another term, or at least run for another term in 2028.

The president essentially shut that line of questioning down in this interview, saying that, in fact, he is not interested in serving past 2028, that there are plenty of other Republicans who would potentially be in line to run for the presidency, including his vice president, J.D. Vance, and his secretary of state/national security advisor Marco Rubio.

So, the president really sort of shutting that line down, but certainly raising a number of other constitutional questions in this interview, Max.

FOSTER: Yeah, absolutely. Kevin. Thank you.

This hour, we are tracking a critical hearing in Pennsylvania in the spotlight. The Trump administration's attempt to send a group of Venezuelan migrants to El Salvador.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino joins us now from New York.

Obviously, when we talk about the Constitution, this is one case that really speaks to it.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Max. In fact, everything that Kevin was just covering there previously, what the president has said about whether or not he has an obligation to uphold the Constitution as well as the administration's belief that they can use this Alien Enemies Act, this wartime authority, to deport hundreds of people without due process is exactly what's playing out across many courts around the United States.

[15:10:02]

Today, we are hearing about a case out of Pennsylvania, but as we sort of pull back and really understand the context of all of this, this is specifically about the administration's use of this wartime authority and what's going to be most interesting in this case is going to see whether or not this judge agrees with other judges who have questioned the legality of the administration's use of the Alien Enemies Act. By the way, this happens to be a Trump appointed judge. So, it's going to see whether or not she agrees with other judges.

Now, remember, the administration has tried to use this wartime authority to deport hundreds of Venezuelan men to El Salvador, alleging that they are members of Tren de Aragua, a Venezuelan gang without any due process. And as we have been reporting over the last several weeks, we know that there are several men who were deported who have no ties to this criminal organization. In fact, the administration has even admitted to erroneously deporting at least one of them.

So, we're seeing a flurry of legal activity to stop these deportations. The Supreme Court ordered the deportations to stop last month. But as you saw there, the Trump administration has made it clear that they want to push ahead with this directive. They are -- there's a plan to deport hundreds of men that are currently detained at a Texas detention center, including this Pennsylvania man who was arrested in his home in Philadelphia. He was then removed to that Texas detention center and is awaiting a deportation order there.

Now, his attorneys are asking this judge in Pennsylvania to issue a preliminary injunction to stop the deportation of him and others like him while the litigation plays out. They say that there could be likely irreversible harm done to him and many others like him, who would be deported if the administration is continued to be allowed to use this wartime authority.

FOSTER: Okay, Gloria, back with you as we get updates from that.

Now, living in fear, people in the Kashmir Valleys are closely watching tensions rise between India and Pakistan. Relations have nosedived since gunmen killed 26 people nearly two weeks ago. That attack targeted tourists in the Indian administered Kashmir.

Now, earlier, Pakistan carried out a second missile test in three days and India, said it ordered several states to conduct security drills.

CNN's Nic Robertson treks through the forest in Pakistani administered Kashmir to give us a rare look at this disputed territory.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: High in the Himalayas, Pakistan's army is taking us deep into disputed Kashmir, toward the line of control, the de facto border with India and one of the most militarized conflicts in the world. Tensions between the two nuclear armed neighbors, rising since a terror attack killed 26 civilians, mostly Indian, almost two weeks ago. Militaries on both sides readying for possible escalation, as India blamed Pakistan and Pakistan denied responsibility.

It's a war of words. Civilians on both sides of these rugged mountains fear, not for the first time, will be victims of events way beyond their sway. Control of the towering peaks unresolved for 75 years.

Just driving through the mountains here, it's easy to understand why Kashmir is still a disputed area, so hard to find a decisive war in this rugged terrain.

The other thing you see here is poverty. Meager villages clinging to the hillside. People here say the spiking tensions making it harder to eke a living, as we're about to find out.

On foot now, the village we're heading to a few hundred feet from the line of control.

And just look over there, you can see how close the front lines are. That's the last Pakistani position there, the Indian army position a few hundred meters away. And those trees, that's the line of control.

When we arrive, most villagers clustered around one house, some hiding in the dark. Inside, children peeking from unglazed windows.

This villager telling us they live in fear. Now, elderly children and women are incredibly scared, he says. We want to take our livestock out to pasture, but the Indians are right there in front of us and we're very concerned.

Their fears may be well-founded.

[15:15:01]

This 17-year-old says Indian troops killed his father, Malik Farooq. He had gone to the line of control to chase our cattle, he says. The Indians shot him and accused him of being a terrorist. He is not. He is a good man.

The day after the massacre in Indian administered Kashmir, the Indian government announced it had foiled a terror plot, killing two Pakistanis. Malik's brother denies the allegations, too, says he was just a herder like me, believes India wants their land before breaking down in tears.

It's okay. It's okay.

India has done a great cruelty to us, he says. If they want me to leave, put a bullet in my head. That's the only way I'll go. With no end in sight on both sides of the border, civilians, as ever, the losers in this decades-old conflict.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Sergiwa (ph), on the line of control in Pakistan administered Kashmir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: That was Nic with this decades-long conflict showing no signs of resolution, there's no shortage of grievances and accusations being levied on both sides of that border.

Officials in India have long accused Pakistan of backing armed groups and separatist forces inside the Indian administered portion of Kashmir, Pakistan says this was true in the past, but it's not happening now. With the killings of 26 civilians still fresh in the minds of many across the border and calls for a revenge. It's no surprise that global powers, including the U.S. and China, have stepped in to urge restraint in this tense standoff.

Now, still to come, can you put tariffs on a movie? Donald Trump is trying. We'll have the details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:14]

FOSTER: The White House says no final decisions have been made on new film tariffs, after President Trump expanded his trade war to the big screen. He wants to impose a 100 percent tariff on all films made outside the U.S., claiming Hollywood is dying.

Whilst Hollywood is far from devastated, the big studios are still struggling to recover from the COVID pandemic. Shares today in Netflix and Warner Brothers Discovery falling more than 1 percent. Walt Disney slightly higher, though. Warner Brothers Discovery is CNN's parent company.

So, no, it's not clear how such a tariff would be imposed. Films are intellectual property, not physical goods. And it's common for U.S. studios to shoot some or all of the film outside the country, or use foreign teams for special effects.

Let's take a closer look at this with our reporter, Lisa Respers France.

And -- I mean, it's -- there's so much to get your head around here, isn't it, how you put a tariff on a service, but also how international the Hollywood movie business is, actually.

LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN REPORTER: Yeah, exactly, Max. This one is a bit of a head scratcher because as you point out, this is not an actual thing. You can't say that here's physically a movie that you can put a tariff on because there's an intellectual property. And so, a lot of people in the industry are trying to wrap their brains around exactly, number one, the thinking that went into making this decision, and also, how is it going to work?

Now, President Trump did speak about it today. And we have a little bit about a bit a little bit of that. So, let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Hollywood doesn't do very much of that business. They have the nice sign and everything's good, but they don't do very much. A lot of it's been taken to other countries and a big proportion, and I'm actually going to meet with some because, you know, there's some advantages, I guess, and I'm not looking to hurt the industry. I want to help the industry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCE: I'm sure the industry feels a little bit better hearing President Trump saying that he's not trying to hurt the industry because, as you pointed out, it's still trying to recover from COVID. We also had the writers' strike and the actors' strike, as well as people have been freaking out in Hollywood about A.I. and the effect that A.I. is going to have on -- on the industry.

So right now, people are looking at possible tariffs and thinking, how is this going to help an industry that, while its not devastated, like the president said, does have some challenges? Now, one of the things is that he really is pointing to a real issue in that it is more expensive to film, say, in southern California, where Hollywood is, as opposed to filming outside of the country, which is why a lot of these studios have taken some of their filming to other countries. You know, going to the U.K. or to Canada because it costs them less money.

But it also begs the question, what makes it an American movie? Does it have to have an American cast? Or is it that the director is American, or that the writers are American?

So, you know, there's just a lot of questions, Max, as to exactly what he means by this and how it's going to work, what the process is going to be. What we do know is that he met with the president, met with actor Jon Voight prior to -- CNN has been told -- prior to making the announcement about the tariffs. And we know that a while back, President Trump appointed Jon Voight and Sylvester Stallone and Mel Gibson as special ambassadors to the Hollywood industry to try to help Hollywood, he said, get to a better place.

So, it's all just really fascinating, yet confusing, yet interesting. And I think, Max, that Hollywood, a lot of people in Hollywood are just kind of sitting back and waiting to see if this is going to come to pass. And, you know, hopefully with the meetings that the president says that he's going to have with some of the industry leaders, some of that will be ironed out, Max.

FOSTER: Let the negotiations begin. Lisa, thank you so much.

FRANCE: Thank you.

FOSTER: The trial against Sean "Diddy" Combs is underway in a New York courtroom. Today is the first day of jury selection for the case against the music mogul. Combs faces federal charges of racketeering, conspiracy, fraud or coercion, and transport transportation to engage in prostitution and sex trafficking by force. Combs has been held at a detention center since last September.

Joining us now from CNN -- from CNN New York, is Kara Scannell -- Kara.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Max. Jury selection is underway. The judge methodically questioning the jurors as they come into the courtroom one by one to try to find 12 jurors and a number of alternates who say they can be fair and impartial.

Now, as we've been listening to this, we've learned that so far, 11 jurors have passed this initial hurdle. A number of these jurors had heard about this case. Some had actually seen the hotel surveillance footage showing Combs kicking and dragging his then girlfriend, Cassie Ventura. She is going to be the government's star witness in this case.

And that video is a key part of the evidence that the prosecution will show the jury. But that doesn't disqualify someone. So, the judge is trying to get to the bottom of what people's views are on that, you know, and has said a number of them have been pushed to move forward to the next round. Two women who are moving forward themselves have been victims of sexual assault decades ago. They said they could separate what happened to them from what evidence they will hear in this case.

One man who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor for fraud also moving forward at this time, and a woman who said she was arrested when she was 16 for shoplifting at Harry Potter World at Universal Studios for stealing a wand. So, a number of those people moving forward, some jurors have been excused.

One man who said he just started a job and he couldn't devote eight weeks of this trial, which will be required. Another woman who did see that video, she was excused because she referred to it in a -- in a written response as damning evidence. The judge finding that she could not overcome that hurdle to be fair and impartial.

So, all of this work until they get 45 prospective jurors. And at that point, both the prosecutors and Combs's attorneys will exercise their preemptive strikes. They will be able to cut jurors that they think have, for whatever reason, that they think a set number of strikes, and then that will get us down to 12 jurors and that number of alternates that they'll see to sit through this trial.

The judge thinks that will happen this week, possibly as soon as Wednesday. And then opening statements will begin next week. The government will begin presenting their case. Of course, Ventura is a star witness.

They also intend to call three other accusers who say that combs had sexually assaulted them or sex trafficked them. And then Combs, of course, will have the opportunity to put on his defense. He has pleaded not guilty and maintained his innocence.

You know, this is obviously the first day of this trial. The stakes are incredibly high for him. He could face a sentence of life in prison if he is convicted. And at one point during jury selection, his lawyer asked the judge for a break and the judge was mulling over whether they needed one. Combs spoke up at that moment and he told the judge, I'm a little nervous today, and he wanted to go to the bathroom -- Max.

FOSTER: Okay. Kara, thank you.

Now, still ahead, a Palestinian official says Israels actions in Gaza will haunt us all. We'll return to the breaking news about Israel's plans to expand the war and move Gaza's population to.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:55] FOSTER: Back now to our top story. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is vowing to move Gaza's population after his security cabinet voted to expand the war. He says Israel intends to hold onto the territory that it captures. An Israeli source says the escalation will happen after U.S. president Donald Trump visits the region next week if no hostage deal is reached.

The head of the Palestinian mission to the U.K. is condemning the world's inaction, saying what's happening to Gaza will haunt us all.

Husam Zomlot says this was never just about Hamas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUSAM ZOMLOT, HEAD, PALESTINIAN MISSION TO THE U.K.: We have warned the world from the beginning that this was the Israeli plan. And by the way, they never hide it. They have announced it from day one. They are not after this group or that they are after the Palestinian people.

And I'd like to remind your audience that they're doing the same in the West Bank, displacing people, destroying cities, infrastructure, hospitals in the West Bank, in Jenin, Tulkarem. So, this is really an Israeli government that after the Palestinian people, they want to continue on the very plan of ethnic cleansing and the situation now in Gaza is not only apocalyptic. It is post-apocalyptic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Let's get the Israeli perspective then. We're joined by former Israeli ambassador to the U.S., Michael Herzog.

He's a retired brigadier general in the IDF as well.

So, you really understand the military thinking here. How do you interpret what we heard today? Is it plans for a full occupation?

MICHAEL HERZOG, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: So, my understanding is that the Israeli cabinet decided on a phased operation. The first phase is about ramping up military and political pressure on Hamas, with the logic of getting Hamas to do another hostage deal to release hostages. There were American and Egyptian proposals, which were rejected by Hamas. And the idea is to put pressure to get them to do a deal. That is supposed to take place until after President Trump's visit in the region, let's say, in the next two weeks or so.

And if that fails, then the Israeli cabinet decided to move to a different phase of operation under a different logic, which is to remove Hamas from power. And that requires a gradual expansion of Israel's footprint inside Gaza to take the territory and, and remove Hamas from power. This is a long operation if it ultimately happens and surrounded by -- by many questions.

FOSTER: But the suggestion is they're not going to come out. So, they're two separate things, aren't they? The occupation or and there's the removal of Hamas, they're two separate things.

HERZOG: The government has not decided to reoccupy Gaza and hold it forever. The government decided to remove Hamas from power, and that requires the reoccupation -- temporary occupation of Gaza. But again, as I said, there are questions surrounding this.

I will say that the majority of Israelis, myself included, do not want to see temporary -- you know, permanent occupation of Gaza. I think strategically, this is bad for Israel. But the question that surrounds this operation, if it ultimately materializes is, first, what happens in the meantime to the hostages? Because we might lose them in the course of this action? Even the chief of staff of the IDF warned the government that this might be, one of the results. And the other question, the bigger question is what's the ultimate end goal -- you know, end game? Is who is going to replace Hamas if Israel unseats Hamas? Thats something that we have not seen a coherent plan yet.

[15:35:00]

I can tell you that when I was in office, we were working very closely with the UAE and other partners in order to bring about a day after Hamas to build a local governance under international umbrella, that regional umbrella that will replace Hamas. I'm not sure what the plan today is.

FOSTER: Okay. Can I just ask you as well?

HERZOG: I don't want to see the alternative of Israel occupying Gaza.

FOSTER: Obviously, you know, so much concern for the hostages, also for, you know, innocent Palestinian civilians as well. I noticed the prime minister talked about moving Gaza's population. What do you understand that to be? Moving within the strip or trying to move them out?

HERZOG: My understanding is that they are going to be moved within the street, out of harm's way into designated areas, inside the strip where they will receive all the necessary humanitarian aid and support, to be dealt with inside those areas by international organizations and private security companies, American companies. That is the plan currently to the extent that people want to leave the -- the strip voluntarily, nobody is going to force them out. And then that will be facilitated.

FOSTER: Okay. Ambassador Herzog, appreciate the time you spent with us today trying to explain that from the Israeli point of view. Thank you.

Now, there is a critical hearing unfolding in Pennsylvania over the Trump administration's attempt to once again send a group of Venezuelan migrants to El Salvador without the right to due process. The federal judge presiding over the case was appointed by the U.S. president. Meanwhile, a woman deported from the U.S. to her native Cuba last month claims she was separated from her 17-month-old daughter after an immigration meeting.

Heidy Sanchez has never been charged or convicted of any crime, and she says she wasn't given the option to take her child with her.

CNN's Patrick Oppmann reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PATRICK OPPMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Heidy Sanchez spends her days watching videos of daughter Kaylene (ph). It's as close as she can be to her child now, just days after Heidy was deported from the United States to Cuba.

Kaylene, who was born in Florida, stayed there with her father, who, like Kaylene, is also a U.S. citizen. But she does not comprehend where her mother is.

She's very intelligent, Heidy says of her one year old daughter. When she talks to me, she says, mama, come. And they say, your mama is working. She says, mama, come.

Heidy lived for six years in the U.S. and although she tried to become a legal resident, she was placed into deportation proceedings after missing an immigration hearing in 2019. In late April, in what she thought was a routine appointment with immigration officials, she says they told her she was being deported and to have her husband come get their daughter.

I told them, don't take away my daughter, Heidy says. They never said if I could take her or not with me.

Heidy had to hand over her daughter to a member of the legal team to then give to her husband, her lawyer told me.

CLAUDIA CANIZARES, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: What they told her was that she needed to call her husband, and that she needed to ask him to come and pick up the baby. There was not an option of, oh, I want to take my baby. Can I take her?

OPPMAN: Two days later, Heidy was deported on a U.S. government flight to Cuba without her daughter, who she was breastfeeding and suffers from convulsions.

In a statement to CNN, the Department of Homeland Security contradicted what Heidy and her attorney told us, saying they always allow parents to decide whether their children are deported with them or stay behind with relatives. And that, quote, the Trump administration is giving parents in this country illegally the opportunity to self-deport and take control of their departure process with the potential ability to return the legal right way and come back to live the American dream.

Heidy now lives with relatives on the outskirts of Havana. There is no cell signal inside the house, so she shows us how she climbs up on the roof to be able to call her daughter and sing her to sleep.

In Florida, Heidy says she was working as a nursing assistant and had no criminal record, not seeming to fit with the image of the dangerous undocumented immigrants that the Trump administration says it is removing from U.S. streets.

Photos of her wedding in the U.S. are reminders of a different world, a different life.

I ask Heidy if she thinks she was living the American dream.

I don't know if it was the American dream, she tells me. But it was my dream, my family -- a dream and family that seemed farther and farther out of reach.

[15:40:08]

Patrick Oppmann, CNN, Havana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Still to come, police in Rio de Janeiro say they disrupted a chilling plot that involved bombs and child murder, the Lady Gaga concert.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Police in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, say they arrested two people, including a teenager who planned a bomb attack at the Lady Gaga concert on Saturday. Fortunately, investigators foiled it. They say the suspects planned to use improvised explosives, Molotov cocktails. A third person was charged for allegedly planning to kill a child at the concert as part of a satanic ritual.

CNN's Julia Vargas Jones joins us from Los Angeles.

The other thing I was reading was that this was all designed to be a social media event. I mean, the whole thing is just horrifying.

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. That person who was planning to kill a child, not only did they want to do this on a livestream, they claimed that Lady Gaga had a satanist religious inclination, Max. And that's why they had to respond in the same way.

But what's interesting is that this is separate from this plot, that with the Molotov cocktails and the improvised explosives that police say that they foiled, that they say was the work of an extremist -- extremist group that was spreading hate speech, especially against the LGBTQ+ community. They were communicating on Discord, a very popular forum and messaging app that's mostly used by gamers.

But these extremist groups have been using Discord in growing numbers, and in recent years they have been associated with real life incidents, including with teens challenged right online to harm themselves or others.

[15:45:02]

I spoke to a Brazilian researcher who -- and educator who has been studying these groups for a while, to get a sense of how is it that they work and recruit teens. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RENATO LEVIN-BORGES, ONLINE HATE GROUP RESEARCHER: First of all, they recruit young people with memes and humor -- normally human -- normally with humor that dehumanize minorities. After that, they start to put them inside private servers, normally on Discord that you have to receive a private invitation. After that, they start to make challenges to climb the hierarchy inside this group. That's how they start to radicalize and create this kind of violent challenge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: And you know, Max, Brazil has been in a years-long battle with social media platforms for them to take accountability for what happens inside these spaces. You remember that X was even blocked temporarily in the entire country, because the company refused to take down some accounts that the government said was spreading hate and fake news.

So, of course, police took this very seriously in Rio as a threat for the 2.5 million people that went to see Lady Gaga, but they also failed to notify Lady Gaga's team. They said that they wanted to operate with discretion. They didn't want to cause panic. Lady Gaga's team said that they actually learned about this the next day from media reports.

You know, of course, lady gaga is a staunch advocate for the LGBTQ+ community. That's what that show was a big pride parade, basically. But she also seemed to not have let this foiled attack be a stain on a successful show. She thanked her fans profusely after all of this came out, saying how grateful she was to have shared this historical moment with her Brazilian fans.

FOSTER: Yeah, well, the video coming out of it certainly showed that they were all having a good time in the end, and they weren't beaten.

Julia, thank you so much for that.

For a bit more on this story, let's bring in Steve Moore. He's a retired FBI supervisory special agent.

And there's this part of this story that's playing in my mind is that we've just heard there how there were -- there was a main plot, there was this subplot. There was a lot going on here, an awful lot of social media chatter.

But the concert still went ahead. What do you make of that?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: I don't know what to make of that, Max. I can't imagine going on with the concert. When the reason you cancel concerts in advance like this are when you do not know for sure that you have everybody wrapped up, that you have -- when -- if you -- if you've eliminated the entire threat, yeah, go ahead with the concert.

But if you have any loose ends out there, it's almost irresponsible, in my opinion, to go ahead with the concert. So, I'd have to know immediately that they knew that all threat was eliminated, or I'd have to question why they didn't cancel this, especially let Lady Gaga know so she could decide whether she wanted to be part of that risk or not.

FOSTER: As it sounded, they didn't find any IEDs, did they? Just plans for IEDs. Maybe that's part of the calculation here that it was talk, but it wasn't action.

MOORE: Yeah. And I agree with that, Max. If you find somebody who's -- who's spreading this hate or encouraging it, things like that, you go into the plotters and find that they have not even begun to make arrangements for such an attack. Then you say, well, you know, there probably wasn't a threat, and I can get that part of it.

The problem with that for me is you know, then why do you call it a foiled terrorist plot, what you would call it at that point is hate speech and threats rather than an actual attempt to harm, physically.

FOSTER: I was fascinated to hear that expert that our reporter was speaking to about how people were recruited to this. Starting off with humor, memes, you know, appealing to people, memes about, you know, communities. And then they get let into a discord group or a membership only group, and then they're given challenges. So, it almost becomes a game to rise up through the group. Is this something that you've seen before?

MOORE: Oh, yeah. Max, this is -- this is with just a couple of, you know, changes in the notes, the same music that has been played for years and decades. White supremacist groups in the United States have used this, extremist groups in the Middle East have used this, and you're trying to recruit people without first telling them the whole plan.

If you started with somebody and said, oh, by the way, how many of you want to raise your hand and be a suicide bomber, you're not going to get a whole bunch of people raising their hands.

[15:50:05]

But if you bring them in with things that are innocuous with humor, things that make you seem normal and reasonable, then you can bring them in. And the closer and closer you bring them, the more hatred, the more radicalized speech you give them, and the more you condition them to believe that something needs to be done.

FOSTER: Steve, as ever, thank you for your analysis on what was thankfully, a very happy concert, in the end.

Still to come, the royals watch on as Britain marks 80 years since the defeat of Nazi Germany in Europe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: This week marks the 80th anniversary of the surrender of Nazi Germany to the Allied Forces in Europe. Britain is commemorating the event for four days, which started today. This was the military parade going down Whitehall.

The royal family were amongst those in attendance at today's parade.

Anna Stewart was there as well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been nearly 80 years since victory in Europe was declared over Nazi Germany. In the words of Winston Churchill --

WINSTON CHURCHILL, FORMER U.K. PRIME MINISTER: We may allow ourselves a brief period of rejoicing, but let us not forget for a moment the toils and efforts that lie ahead.

STEWART: VE Day is this Thursday, but commemorations started Monday and will continue through the week, with very few Second World War veterans still alive. There is a big push this year to ensure that the huge sacrifices made are marked and remembered by future generations. And so began a procession of more than 1,000 members of Britain's armed forces from parliament square down the mall to Buckingham Palace.

Also, Ukrainian troops, a reminder of the current conflict in Europe. Watching on the royal family, Britain's Prime Minister Keir Starmer and, of course, the veterans who are front and center of today's events.

[15:55:03]

And it wouldn't feel complete without a flypast. And todays is a flypast with a difference led by a Lancaster bomber, one of just two in the world that are still airworthy. Ending with Red Arrows accompanied by Typhoons.

And the traditional parting way from the royal family, including the youngest princes and princess, who will take on this duty. Leading a nation in remembering the sacrifices of the Second World War for decades to come.

Anna Stewart, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Before we go, a quick programing note for you. Join us this time tomorrow, Tuesday, for the very first episode of "WHAT WE KNOW" with me, Max Foster, a photo, your nightly roundup of the day's biggest headlines and most burning questions live from London.

Check out my social media pages for details because you can also join there and join us every night at 8:00 p.m. London time. That's 9:00 p.m. in Central Europe, not weekends though, thankfully.

Thanks for joining me here on the last CNN NEWSROOM at this time. I'm Max Foster.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.