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India Strikes Pakistan In Major Escalation Over Kashmir Violence; Trump Reacts To Indian Strikes On Pakistan: "It's A Shame"; Merz Sworn In As Chancellor After Winning Second Vote; Carney Tells Trump Canada Won't Ever Be For Sale; U.S. And Chinese Officials To Meet In Geneva This Week; Art vs. Life: How Accurate Is The Movie "Conclave". Aired 1-2a ET

Aired May 07, 2025 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[01:00:35]

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello and welcome to CNN Newsroom. I'm MJ Lee in Washington, D.C. Ahead for us this hour, tensions are boiling over after India launches a military strike inside Pakistan. Israel strikes Yemen's main airport as the Houthi rebel leader vows to meet escalation with escalation. And we are just hours away from the start of the Vatican conclave where cardinals will elect the next pope.

There are growing fears that two nuclear armed rivals are moving closer to war after India launched military strikes against Pakistan. India claims to have targeted terrorist infrastructure in several locations inside Pakistan and Pakistan administered Kashmir. India is insisting its missile strikes were focused and precise and designed to be non-escalatory in nature. But Pakistan rejects that claim. Its military says eight people were killed, including women and a child, and that 35 people were wounded.

Pakistan also says it shot down five Indian Air Force jets and a drone. CNN cannot independently confirm those claims. These new strikes come about two weeks after gunmen massacred 26 tourists India administered Kashmir. India quickly accused Pakistan of supporting terrorists in the region. Pakistan has denied any responsibility.

The two sides also have been exchanging shelling and gunfire across their disputed border. But this is the first time since 2019 that India has struck inside Pakistani territory. The attacks in Punjab Province are the deepest since the 1971 war. Let's go live now to CNN's Kristie Lu Stout following all the latest developments from Hong Kong. Give us the latest. Get us up to speed on the latest developments, Christy.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, MJ, there is deep concern that we could be on the brink of war. India has launched military action against Pakistan this day. This comes two weeks after that tourist massacre Indian administered Kashmir, a massacre that India blames on Pakistan and Pakistan denies. India launched these military strikes against Pakistan earlier today. On Wednesday, according to India's Defense Ministry, it said that it targeted, quote, "terrorist infrastructure" both inside Pakistan proper as well as in Pakistan administered Kashmir.

We do have a statement from India's Defense Ministry saying this. Let's bring it up for you, quote, "Our actions have been focused, measured and non-escalatory in nature. No Pakistani military facilities have been targeted. India has demonstrated considerable restraint in the selection of targets and method of execution," unquote. Now, India says a total of nine sites were targeted.

And I want to show you this video that's been going viral on social media that depicts the moment of impact of one strike in eastern Pakistan. This is significant. This is the first time India has conducted airstrikes inside Pakistan since 2019. Multiple sites were targeted, multiple sites were hit, including a religious school. Now, next, I want to show you this social media video that shows you the aftermath of a strike on a religious school in Pakistan, in eastern Pakistan, near Lahore, in a town called Muridke.

And you can see the school is in flames. Pakistan's military says at least eight civilians have been killed in these strikes, including women and children. They say dozens have been injured, thousand. They are calling these strikes, quote, "a blatant act of war." And I want you to listen to this statement that was delivered by Pakistan's military spokesperson who spoke to Jim Sciutto earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. AHMED SHARIF CHAUDHRY, PAKISTAN MILITARY SPOKESPERSON: We strongly condemn this cowardly action of India, which is in any form a flagrant violation of the United Nations Charter, international law and all established norms of interstate relations. The Indian leadership has once again used the body of terrorism to advance its sham narrative of victimhood. We have jeopardized the regional peace and security. And I must say that India's reckless action has brought the two nuclear armed states closer to a major conflict.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[01:05:06]

STOUT: Says it has shot down five Indian fighter jets.

2 nuclear armed states closer to a major conflict, including Rafale jets. These are French made fighter jets, very sophisticated, elite military assets. The tension is escalating and there are again deep concerns that this could escalate into an all-out conflict between India and Pakistan, two nuclear armed rivals.

Back to you MJ.

LEE: Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong, thank you so much.

And joining me now from Canberra, Australia is Malcolm Davis, the senior Analyst of Defense Strategy and Capability at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. It's great to have you here. We will see what more information we get in the coming hours about the breadth of these attacks. But just for starters, help our viewers understand how we got to this particular moment of escalation.

MALCOLM DAVIS, SENIOR ANALYST, DEFENCE STRATEGY, ASPI: Well, obviously this attack by the Indians on Pakistani territory that -- where terrorist sites were located was always expected. After that attack in Indian Kashmir that killed a large number of people. I think that the Indians have been essentially biding their time and making sure that any attack that they carried out on Pakistan would be effective. And clearly this was effective in terms of the actual accuracy of the weapons used. You know, they were precise, precision weapons.

So the key question now is how does Pakistan respond? Does Pakistan essentially accept the hit and back down? Or does Pakistan retaliate? And I think probably the most likely scenario is that Pakistan will retaliate at some point.

LEE: And Malcolm, Pakistan is claiming that it has shot down five Indian fighter jets. Again, CNN has not independently confirmed those claims. But if that does bear out, what would that tell you about how serious this moment in the escalation is?

DAVIS: Well, if indeed they have actually shot down five aircraft, including three Rafales, which are, you know, the cutting edge of French military aviation, that does suggest that the Pakistani air defense systems are quite potent. And I think that it would be once again a blow to India in terms of their confidence. But I think that shooting down Indian combat aircraft won't be sufficient retaliation for Islamabad. They are likely to do some sort of further retaliation. There has been evidently artillery shelling across the line of control in Jammu and Kashmir.

But I think you will see something more than that. And then the question is, you know, how does India respond to that retaliation? Do we end up in, you know, what is known as the tip-for-tat escalation cycle where each side is escalating in response to the other. That's where the danger comes in in terms of uncontrolled escalation and the fact that both states have nuclear weapons.

LEE: And you know, much of the international community does not want to see this headed towards a full blown war. What about for India and Pakistan? I mean, does either country genuinely have an appetite for things really blowing up?

DAVIS: Look, I can't imagine or believe that either Delhi or Islamabad are prepared to go down the path of full scale war, especially given that both sides have nuclear weapons. They both know the consequences of allowing the use of nuclear weapons on the subcontinent. It would be devastating for their populations and indeed generate global implications for a very long time. So I don't imagine that either Pakistan or India are prepared to let it go to full scale war. But the problem is that in crises like this, once you get into that escalatory cycle, it's very difficult to get off and it generates a momentum all of its own.

And so the risk is that they lose control of the situation and then they're forced into a tit-for-tat response that escalates and leads to further attacks. And so that's where you end up in that danger for a full scale war, either conventional, which would be devastating, or God -- hopefully not nuclear, that would see much of the subcontinent devastated.

LEE: And here in Washington, President Trump's initial reaction to the escalation Tuesday night was to say, I just hope it ends very quickly. He said the whole situation was a shame. Is there, in your view, a role for the U.S. to play in helping to de-escalate?

DAVIS: Absolutely. I think that Secretary of State Marco Rubio should be on the phone to both Delhi and Islamabad to try and convince both sides to take an off ramp here to basically back down from further escalation. Certainly if the U.S. doesn't do it, then you will see the likes of China become involved and try to play a diplomatic role.

[01:10:11]

So I think that from a U.S. perspective, the Trump administration does need to actually take a more assertive role here to de-escalate things in concert with the U.N. and also with Europe and working with other partners in the region to de-escalate this crisis before it does end up in an out of control escalatory cycle.

LEE: And before I let you go, Malcolm, can you talk to us about General Asim Munir, this is Pakistan's army chief and why he is at the moment one of the key people to watch and also how he compares to his predecessor.

DAVIS: Well, look, I don't know a whole lot about him, but essentially my understanding is that, you know, he's now in a very strong political position. Effectively you have a situation in Islamabad where he is effectively running the show there. So his credibility will be on the line in this crisis. And I think that for Pakistan not to retaliate somehow would undermine his credibility and his influence. So for domestic political reasons and for bureaucratic and organizational politics within the Pakistani military, I think that he will probably play a key role in deciding how Pakistan responds to him.

I'm not familiar with the lineage of Pakistani military leaders going back, but certainly I know he is in a influential position, and so therefore he'll be a key actor.

LEE: All right, Malcolm Davis in Canberra, Australia, thank you so much.

DAVIS: Thank you very much.

LEE: And we are now just a few hours away from the start of the conclave that will choose a new pope to lead the Roman Catholic Church. Here are some live pictures of Vatican City, where 133 cardinals will decide who will succeed Pope Francis to become the next leader of almost one and a half billion Catholics around the world. The cardinals will be sealed off from the outside world as they wrestle with this crucial task inside the Sistine Chapel. CNN's Boris Sanchez gives us a step by step look at how the conclave's voting process is going to work.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: The secretive process for voting for a new pope all happens here inside the Sistine Chapel. After the death of Pope Francis, the Catholic Church must choose a new pope in a process called a conclave. On Wednesday, the conclave begins with a mass for the cardinals in St. Peter's Basilica. And after the mass, the cardinals will gather in the Pauline Chapel. Then the voting members of the College of Cardinals, those under the age of 80, will enter the famous Sistine Chapel.

The lowest ranking cardinal first, the highest ranking cardinal last. Inside, each cardinal takes the conclave oath, part of a vow of secrecy under penalty of excommunication. The Sistine Chapel is then placed under a total lockdown, including cell blockers installed in 2013 that prevent any calls, texts or Internet access. Nine cardinals are then chosen at random to perform specific roles in each voting session. These three are the scrutineers who oversee the voting.

There are also three revisers who verify the results. And finally, three infirmary leave the chapel to collect votes from any sick cardinals.

Next, the vote. Vatican law specifies the ballots be rectangular paper bearing on the upper half the words Eligo in Summum Pontificem or I elect as the Supreme Pontiff. The cardinal then writes his choice for pope on the lower half, folding the ballot twice. Then highest ranking cardinals first. They carry the ballots to the altar, holding it in their hand like this so that it can be seen.

Each cardinal then places the ballot on a receptacle covered by a plate that sits in front of the three scrutineers. After all the cardinals have cast their votes, the scrutineers add them up and the totals are checked by the revisers. The names are then read aloud for all the cardinals to hear. And then a scrutineer pierces the ballot with a needle threaded with red string through the word Eligo or I elect and secures it to the rest of the votes. As many as four votes a day can take place, two in the morning and two in the evening.

A candidate must receive more than a two thirds majority to be elected Pope. Next, the ballots are taken to stoves in the back of the Sistine Chapel. The stove has an electronic device that adds chemicals to alter the color of the smoke. The color of the smoke from these ballots is the only indication to the outside world of whether a new pope has been chosen. Black smoke means that no candidate has received a two thirds majority and a pope is yet to be picked.

[01:15:05]

White smoke means that the cardinals have come to a consensus and the Pope has been chosen.

LEE: Israel claims it destroyed Houthi terror targets in Yemen after a series of airstrikes on the country's main international airport. The unprecedented warning that came before the attack. Plus, a tense White House visit for Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney. He had a message for Donald Trump about Canada becoming the 51st state. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:20:04]

LEE: More now on the escalating violence between India and Pakistan, schools are closed in both Pakistan's Punjab province and in Jammu in India after India's military launched strikes on targets in Pakistan on Wednesday. Pakistani officials say eight people were killed in the strikes. India claims it targeted, quote, "terrorist infrastructure." This comes weeks after 26 tourists in India administered Kashmir were killed in a terror attack.

The Israeli military reports that multiple airstrikes have fully disabled the airport in Yemen's capital, Sanaa. The IDF says fighter jets struck and dismantled Houthi terrorist infrastructure. Several major power stations were also hit. The Houthi run Health Ministry reports at least one person was killed and three others injured in the airport attack on Sunday. A ballistic missile launched by the Houthis penetrated Israeli air defenses and landed near Ben Gurion International Airport. Israel's military issued a rare evacuation order for Yemen's airport before Tuesday's strike. More now from CNN's Jerusalem Correspondent Jeremy Diamond.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Some of the most significant Israeli airstrikes that we have seen in Yemen, they are the second wave of strikes within just 24 hours coming in retaliation for that Houthi ballistic missile attack on Sunday that struck right next to Israel's Ben Gurion International Airport. The Israeli military on Tuesday striking the capital city of Sanaa's international airport, according to the Israeli military, fully disabling that airport after carrying out strikes that hit the runways, aircraft as well as other infrastructure at that airport. It is a civilian international airport, which is quite notable here. But Israel accusing the Houthis of using this airport for their military purposes as well.

It was one of just a series of strikes that we saw in and around the Yemeni capital on Tuesday as the Israeli military also struck the power plants in the area as well as a cement factory just north of the city. The Israelis also issued an unprecedented evacuation order for that international airport in Sanaa about an hour before those airstrikes took place, sending passengers and staff scrambling to get away from that airport before the bombs started dropping. It's not clear whether the Israelis intend to carry out further attacks now, but right after this happened within hours, actually, President Trump then announcing that the United States and the Houthis have effectively reached a de facto cease fire. No indication as of yet that will include Israel and the back and forth attacks between Israel and the Houthis. But indeed, President Trump saying that the Houthis don't want to fight, that they have capitulated in the face of several months of escalating American attacks on Houthi targets in Yemen.

President Trump saying that the United States will also stop its bombing of Houthi targets in Yemen after the Houthis agreed to stop bombing -- stop targeting ships in the Red Sea. It seems like there is some kind of more formal agreements that is actually in the works here that has yet to actually be signed, but President Trump making that announcement. The question how will this affect the Israeli Houthi back and forth? That much remains to be seen.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.

LEE: Another horrific scene is unfolding in Gaza where hospital officials are reporting at least 22 people are dead, including seven children. Dozens more were injured in an Israeli strike on a school compound that was sheltering thousands of displaced people. Israel says it struck terrorists operating a Hamas command and control center. The Israeli security cabinet on Sunday approved an expanded military operation in Gaza. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Palestinians in Gaza will be relocated to the southern part of the territory.

[01:29:11]

Until ahead this hour, Canada's prime minister on his first visit to the White House. But did the meeting do anything to resolve the trade dispute that's dividing the longtime allies?

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[01:29:36]

LEE: Welcome back. You're watching CNN Newsroom. I'm MJ Lee in Washington.

A quick look at our top story.

Pakistan says eight people were killed and dozens more wounded in what its prime minister is calling an act of war perpetrated by India.

Earlier, India launched military strikes on quote, "terrorist infrastructure targets" inside Pakistan's Punjab Province and in Pakistan-administered Kashmir. Pakistan claims it shot down five Indian air force jets in response.

This comes more than two weeks after a massacre on civilians in India- controlled Kashmir, marking a dangerous escalation between the nuclear-armed rivals.

And joining us now is Aparna Pande, director of the Initiative on the Future of India and South Asia at the Hudson Institute. Aparna, the fact that we are seeing attacks outside the famously disputed region, that marks a real escalation, right? So what do you think is the likelihood right now that the situation continues to intensify and this conflict only gets bigger?

APARNA PANDE, DIRECTOR, INITIATIVE ON THE FUTURE OF INDIA AND SOUTH ASIA, HUDSON INSTITUTE: So India, actually, this is, you know, sort of this film's played out before since 1989.

Every few years there's a terror attack inside India, almost always tied to a terror group inside Pakistan and there's an escalation of tensions. The international community comes in and tries to de- escalate. Since 2016, India has chosen to respond every time a large terror attack takes place.

LEE: So at this moment in time, I mean, do you see an obvious off ramp here? What does India need to see Pakistan do? And what does Pakistan need to see India do for things to actually de-escalate?

PANDE: So, Pakistan could either choose to pretend that nothing happened and that would be a de-escalation. It did that in 2016 when it said that India did not -- Indian troops did not cross the border for surgical strike. Or like it did in 2019, when it claimed that Indian fighter jets struck empty land.

Or it could -- or if it retaliates, it could do something similar to 2019 when it went inside Indian Kashmir, you know, sort of dropped sort of, you know, a bomb or two and came back and nothing much happened from that.

So these are ways to de-escalate. And yet Pakistan would be able to save face.

If that happens, India is unlikely to escalate because as the Indian government's message (INAUDIBLE) today said, India has no desire to escalate this conflict.

LEE: And we also heard President Trump's initial reaction to the situation Tuesday night. And that was to say, you know, I hope it ends very quickly.

Do you think that there is an obvious role that the U.S. can play to help de-escalate the situation? You know, you mentioned before how in past years, you know, there have been moments where the international community has tried to intervene.

PANDE: So, I believe that Secretary of State Marco Rubio, outgoing national security advisor, Mr. Waltz and Secretary Hegseth have all been in contact with their counterparts.

Secretary Rubio about half an hour to an hour ago posted on X that he has had conversations and they have asked both sides to de-escalate and not to allow to escalate further.

So I believe the U.S. is playing a role. I also believe China, Russia and the Arab Gulf countries with whom India and Pakistan both have good relations, are calling their Indian and Pakistani counterparts and asking them not to escalate this any further.

LEE: And if you're the Trump administration, for a whole host of obvious reasons, you don't want to see some of the images that we are seeing coming out of the region, right?

PANDE: No. Sort of, you know, one, there are enough crises around the world that the administration is dealing with. It doesn't need another crisis.

That two nuclear armed neighbors that have fought four wars in the past, you don't want them moving up the escalatory ladder anytime soon. LEE: And just very quickly, I would love it if you could quickly

explain the broader history of how we got to this point. I mean, this is a conflict that has been going on for years and years. Tensions that have been there for years and years. Why did we get to this point?

PANDE: So, for the last 35 years, this has been happening. There's a terror attack. And the reason is that sort of the only way to get out of this cycle, M.J., is if Pakistan actually sort of takes apart the terrorist infrastructure that it has built inside its country.

And those terror groups every few years attack inside India, whether Indian Kashmir or some other Indian territory like Mumbai happened 2008.

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PANDE: And so the only way to get out of this cycle is for these terror attacks to stop so that India and Pakistan can actually have conversations, discuss Kashmir, discuss the other issues, and move on and be neighbors as they should be.

LEE: Aparna Pande, thank you so much for joining us.

PANDE: Thank you.

LEE: The U.S. State Department says it is closely monitoring developments after the Indian strikes. Secretary of State Marco Rubio had urged top officials from both countries to de-escalate last week.

On Tuesday, the U.S. president addressed the situation from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now, it's a shame. We just heard about it just as we were walking in the doors of the Oval. Just heard about it.

I guess people knew something was going to happen based on a little bit of the past. They've been fighting for a long time. You know, they've been fighting for many, many decades. And centuries, actually, if you really think about it.

No, I just hope it ends very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: It wasn't a great start for Germany's chancellor-in-waiting, but he finally made it across the finish line. The challenges facing Friedrich Merz just ahead.

[01:36:05]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEE: Pakistan says it has shot down five Indian air force jets and a drone during India strikes, claiming it was self-defense. Pictures of aircraft parts in Indian-administered Kashmir show the label of a French manufacturer, which could lend support to Pakistan's claim that it had shot down some of India's top of the line Rafale (ph) fighter jets.

CNN cannot independently verify those claims.

Indian officials have not yet confirmed whether any planes were lost. Pakistan says eight people were killed and 35 people wounded by India strikes.

Germany's new chancellor will meet with French President Emmanuel Macron in Paris in the coming hours. Friedrich Merz was officially sworn in on Tuesday after winning in the second vote in parliament. The leader of the Christian Democratic Union Party failed to secure a majority in the first ballot.

That's never happened to a German chancellor in modern history.

The CDU won February's national elections but had to form a coalition with the center left Social Democrats. That government is now facing strong opposition from the far right AFD Party.

And the U.S. and Canada do not appear to be any closer to resolving their dispute over tariffs after a White House visit from Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney.

CNN's Kristen Holmes has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The meeting between Prime Minister Carney and Donald Trump seemed to start off on a cordial note.

Donald Trump was praising Carney for his win, winning prime minister. He also said he was happy to have him there. And he touted that he wanted to keep a friendship with Canada.

Very different kind of rhetoric than we had heard when he was talking about Justin Trudeau.

However, the meeting did grow tense, particularly when Donald Trump seemed to almost go on a rant talking about how America didn't need Canada, that they shouldn't be subsidizing Canada.

You could see Carney's facial reaction there as it got stiffer and stiffer, and particularly when it came to this conversation that Donald Trump has tried to have or publicly talked about, which is the idea of making Canada a 51st state.

Donald Trump raising it first, saying they weren't going to talk about it. Then going back on that and starting to talk about it at length, saying it would benefit Canada. Later at a press conference Carney responded to this. Here's what he

said.

MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: The president has made known his wish about that issue for some time.

I've been careful always to distinguish between wish and reality. I was clear there in the Oval Office, as I've been clear throughout on behalf of Canadians, that this is never going to happen.

HOLMES: Now, during the same press conference, Carney said that he had asked Donald Trump repeatedly to stop using this phrase that Canada was the 51st state. But he wouldn't reveal how Trump responded.

He also said that Trump and he would meet at the G7, which is going to be in Canada next month.

Really interesting factor there because we had heard from the administration they hadn't yet committed to going to the G7 in Canada.

It does appear that this happened, at least in part, behind closed doors, something that many countries really wanted to see happen. They wanted to hear that Donald Trump was going to commit to this. It appears they will meet in Canada in June.

Kristen Holmes, CNN -- the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEE: Nick Taylor-Vaisey is Politico's Ottawa bureau chief and author of Politico's "Canada Playbook", and he is joining us from the Canadian capital. Nick, it is great to have you.

You wrote in Tuesday morning's "Canada Playbook" that Carney really needed to make an impression at the White House. So what impression do you think he ultimately made on President Trump?

NICK TAYLOR-VAISEY, BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO: Well, from the first moment they met at the doors to the White House, it looked like Prime Minister Carney, he at least appeared to be comfortable.

The question is always with a Canadian prime minister meeting Donald Trump, what will that reception be? And Carney was smiling and they walked on inside.

[01:44:48]

TAYLOR-VAISEY: And then in the meeting itself Carney appeared to stand up for Canada in a way that didn't anger or trigger the president, which, of course, was something every single Canadian analyst was watching for, the dynamic that developed between the two of them.

And the president even had actually quite kind things to say about Carneys run for prime minister and for the general election, where he was just successful. So I think coming out of it, a lot of liberals in Canada and people

who generally voted for Carney probably thought he acquitted himself quite well.

LEE: And I want to listen to one of the key moments coming out of that Oval Office meeting where the prime minister addressed President Trump's insistence that Canada become the 51st state. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARNEY: As you know, from real estate, there are some places that are never for sale. Having met with the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign last several months, it's not for sale. Won't be for sale ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: Nick, it's really fascinating reading those words from Carney I thought was really different from watching him say them. You know, you used the word "comfortable" before to describe his demeanor. I thought he sounded almost sort of nonchalant and affable in his tone.

I mean, what was your read on the delivery of that message?

TAYLOR-VAISEY: Well-practiced I would say. I imagine there was a lot of preparation that went into that meeting, from that handshake on to some of the lines that Carney delivered.

I mean he would have expected that the president would have brought up the 51st state stuff. I mean, there was no indication he wouldn't.

And in fact, before the meeting, right before the meeting, the president posted on Truth Social that in fact, his only question of consequence was going to be about why Canada -- well essentially, the question that he always brings up about subsidizing Canada and $200 billion here and there and wouldn't it just be better if Canada became a state.

And so the prime minister would have expected that. And I think that's why he executed the line relatively well is because probably his staff prepared him a lot.

LEE: Yes, that's a good point. You don't walk into that room without a lot of preparation.

Let's talk about just policy for a second, too. I mean, do we now have any more clarity on what's next for USMCA? You know, Carney said that that is going to be part of a bigger negotiation to come. What does that look like? Do we know?

TAYLOR-VAISEY: Right. I don't think anybody expected anything super concrete in terms of structure to come out of this meeting. But there were some -- some highlights that I think a lot of observers were looking for. And one was, as you're talking about the USMCA and what will come of that? Trump defended the trade deal, which, of course, he negotiated in his

first term. And he gave the broad outline of that's going to be a discussion over the next year or so, probably that's what Carney wanted to hear. Carney, a whole bunch of Canadian premiers, business leaders want that trade deal to be renegotiated, revisited and bolstered as part of an effort to kind of save the relationship, the economic and trade relationship between Canada and the United States.

Carney's overarching goal, I think going down to Washington, was to introduce the idea of an economic and also a renewed security relationship with the United States, something that can counter what Trump keeps talking about when he says that the United States is subsidizing Canada and defends Canada for free.

Carney wants to make the point that, in fact, Canada can be a player at that table, not just some subservient sort of, you know, underling.

LEE: Many Canadians have been sort of baffled by some of the rhetoric that's come from President Trump recently about Canada. The average Canadian, you know, who was watching the prime minister's visit to Washington. I mean, what grade do you think they're giving the prime minister?

I know that you mentioned before, a lot of liberals are probably pretty happy with his performance.

TAYLOR-VAISEY: I think a lot of people who voted for Carney, particularly older voters who spent a lot of time paying attention to American news, watching CNN would have seen their prime minister on CNN and I think giving him a pretty good grade, somewhere between A and B. I don't know, depending on what they thought of his hand gestures and what they thought of how much he actually spoke back and encountered the president.

I think conservatives, a lot of conservatives in Canada will look at that exchange or that series of exchanges and give the prime minister decent marks.

And then there will be conservatives who think he looked meek and who think he didn't speak enough and he didn't counter the president enough. He didn't puff up his chest at all.

But I think a lot of the voters who swung the election, particularly older voters who really, really prioritize Canada's relationship with the United States and feared and were anxious about Donald Trump, would have been quite happy with what they saw.

LEE: All right. Nick Taylor-Vaisey, thank you so much.

TAYLOR-VAISEY: Thank you for having me.

[01:49:52]

LEE: U.S. and Chinese officials are already downplaying expectations ahead of meetings this week in Switzerland to discuss trade and other economic issues. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and Trade Representative Jamieson

Greer will travel to Geneva for those talks. Bessent says he believes the meeting will be more about de-escalation than making a deal, and suggested that the, quote, "strategic uncertainty" that President Trump is using to force other countries to negotiate is working when it comes to China.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: The world has been coming to the U.S., and China has been the missing piece. I was going to be in Switzerland to negotiate with the Swiss.

Turns out the Swiss -- the Chinese team is traveling through Europe and they will be in Switzerland also. So we will meet on Saturday and Sunday.

And look, we have shared interests. We don't want to decouple. What we want is fair trade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: China, meanwhile, says it will not compromise its principles for the sake of reaching a deal. Tensions between Washington and Beijing have been high since President Trump imposed 145 percent tariff on some Chinese goods, and China hit back with 125 percent tariffs on certain U.S. imports.

The movie "Conclave" won an academy award for its portrayal of Catholic cardinals choosing the next pope. But is it a realistic telling of what happens behind closed doors of the Sistine Chapel?

We'll take a look next on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEE: A recap of our top story.

Pakistan is promising to respond after India launched military strikes on what it calls terrorist infrastructure in Pakistan and Pakistan- administered Kashmir.

But Pakistani officials say civilians were struck, killing at least 26 civilians and wounding 46 others.

India says it strikes for justice for the massacre of 26 people, mostly tourists, in Indian-administered Kashmir last month. New Delhi is blaming Pakistan for that attack, which Islamabad denies.

In the two weeks since Pope Francis died, the number of people watching the Oscar movie, Oscar-winning movie, excuse me, "Conclave" has soared. Catholic cardinals will gather inside the Sistine Chapel to begin the process of choosing the next pope. But is -- but is the movie an accurate representation of what will transpire in the coming hours?

CNN Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb breaks it down.

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CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Interest in "Conclave", the movie, has skyrocketed. But how accurate is the film?

Well, as a correspondent covering the Vatican for some time, I'd say it gets quite a few things spot on.

Let's start at the beginning. The first is the arrival of the cardinals at a Vatican guest house.

Well, like in the movie, the cardinals will be arriving in the Vatican and staying here at the Casa Santa Marta, a guest house built specifically for conclave and to house the cardinals.

During that period, we see quite an accurate depiction of the voting process, with cardinals writing down the name of their candidate on paper ballots and then placing them in an urn.

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LAMB: And like in real life, we see debates between cardinals about the future direction of the church. And the movie highlights that tension between the power of God and the ambition of men.

But it's not all accurate. Some of the small details such as how the tables are laid out in the Sistine Chapel are not quite right. And also how the cardinals address each other isn't how it would be in real life.

And the election of a cardinal who had been appointed in secret, and who it intersects, is also hard to imagine happening in real life.

And while the movie does a great job of lifting the lid on the human drama of the conclave, it does miss an essential part. And that is that the conclave is also a spiritual process where the cardinals don't just cast a vote, but they also have to discern God's will in the process.

This is as much a spiritual exercise as it is a decision on who to elect.

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LEE: Researchers are still uncovering more of what burned when Italy's Mount Vesuvius erupted way back in 79 A.D. The author and title of this burnt scroll, one of the hundreds from the ancient Roman town of Herculaneum has finally been deciphered.

One researcher and two graduate students from Germany digitally unwrapped the scroll around the same time. The decoded text suggests the scroll is titled "On Vices" and is part of an ethical treatise by the Greek philosopher Philodemus. The Vesuvius challenge encouraged researchers worldwide to decode the scrolls. And Britain's King Charles and Queen Camilla unveiled their official coronation portraits at the National Gallery in London on Tuesday. The event marked two years since the king's coronation.

The royal couple posed for photos with their respective artists. Paul Benney, who painted the queen's portraits says he enjoyed talking while he works, and his experience with the queen did not disappoint.

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PAUL BENNEY, PAINTED QUEEN CAMILLA'S PORTRAIT: We had a lot of talk and chat and stories which we could tell each other and actually at times, when I would leave and I'm not kidding -- I would actually be holding my tummy from laughing so much. The queen's very witty.

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LEE: Thank you for watching. I'm M.J. Lee.

CNN NEWSROOM continues with Rosemary Church after a short break.

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