Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Pakistan Vows to Make India Pay for Military Strikes; Bombs Reportedly Still Falling in Ukraine; First Full Day of the Conclave Set to Begin; India and Pakistan Locked in Decades-Long Dispute Over Kashmir; Trump Says He Won't Cut China Tariffs Before Talks. Aired 12- 12:45a ET

Aired May 08, 2025 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:00:00]

M.J. LEE, CNN NEWSROOM: Hello and welcome. I'm M.J. Lee.

Ahead here on CNN Newsroom Pakistan is calling India's attack a terrible mistake and vowing, they must now pay the price.

Vladimir Putin's self-proclaimed three-day ceasefire in Ukraine has begun. So why are bombs reportedly still falling?

And black smoke on day one of the Conclave, and now comes the first full day of the voting for the next pope.

There are reports of more shelling between India and Pakistan across their de facto border in the disputed cashmere region. As fears grow that the two sides are on the brink of a wider conflict, Pakistan is vowing to retaliate after India launch, military strikes against its neighbor over tensions in that region. Pakistan's military says the death toll has now risen to 31 with 57 people wounded, with those casualties coming from the initial strikes as well as Indian gunfire at the line of control.

The Pakistani defense minister says, India's attacks on the country and on Pakistan-administered Kashmir were a, quote, clear cut violation. But he says Islamabad is trying to avoid a full-fledged war. Pakistan's Prime Minister says he has authorized the military to carry out corresponding actions and it has pledged to only hit military targets in India and not civilian targets.

And meanwhile, a senior defense source, Indian defense source, tells CNN overnight shelling by Pakistan has killed at least 12 civilians and wounded 57 people. Both countries have had nearly daily exchanges of fire since the April 22nd massacre of tourists in India- administered Kashmir, and that is what sparked this latest conflict.

CNN's Kristie Lu Stout is covering all of this live from Hong Kong. Kristie, walk us through the latest developments.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, M.J., this is the latest development right now. Pakistan is vowing to retaliate after India's military action on Wednesday in the wake of that tourist massacre in Kashmir. Meanwhile, India is saying, if Pakistan responds, India will respond. And all this is fueling fears that this could spiral into a wider confrontation, into a wider conflict.

We're also getting a clear picture of the human cost of this ongoing conflict. Pakistan saying at least 31 people have been killed by India's military strikes, India saying at least 12 people have been killed by Pakistan's cross-border shelling. We also heard from Pakistan's prime minister, who, in a televised address to the nation, said that India will, quote, pay the price. He also said this. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEHBAZ SHARIF, PAKISTANI PRIME MINISTER: Perhaps they thought that we would retreat, but they forgot that by the grace of Allah Almighty, we are a nation of brave people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STOUT: Now, Pakistan's defense minister told Geo News that Pakistan would only strike in India military installations, and not civilian targets, in the event of retaliation.

Now, we also are learning more about the aftermath of India's military strikes. India and Wednesday struck nine different sites, terrorist infrastructure, they called it, including areas inside Pakistan and in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, also including that religious school in Eastern Pakistan.

We have fresh satellite imagery showing the aftermath of that missile strike. And let's bring it up for you. And you could see clearly on your screen in just a moment what it looked like both before the military action by India on Wednesday and after this religious school in Eastern Pakistan near Lahore. And you can see after all that remains is scorched earth, charred buildings. Locals tell Reuters that five missiles killed three people in that building.

But there were losses for India as well, civilian losses as mentioned earlier, as well as military asset losses. Pakistan's military says that five Indian fighter jets were shot down, including those elite French-made Rafale fighter jets. Pakistan's defense minister, or prime minister, rather, said that they were destroyed in an hour long aerial batter battle, which is a remarkably long period of time.

But a French government source tells CNN and confirms that at least one Rafale jet was shot down, which is significant because it would mark the first time that a Rafale jet would've been lost in combat.

[00:05:01]

Back to you.

LEE: Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong, thank you so much.

Let's bring in Fahd Humayun. He is an assistant professor of political science at Tufts University and a visiting scholar at Stanford University Center for International Security and Cooperation. Fahd, it's great to see you.

We were just talking about the reports of additional shelling. And when Pakistan's National Security Committee held an emergency meeting on Wednesday, the readout from that meeting said this, Pakistan reserves the right to respond in self-defense at a time, place, and manner of its choosing. Does it seem clear to you right now that further escalation is likely?

FAHD HUMAYUN, POLITICAL SCIENCE ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, TUFTS UNIVERSITY: I think the readout from the National Security Committee meeting that happened yesterday morning sends several messages. One is that I think the Pakistan government and military both plan to undertake some form of military retaliation. I think that's very much on the cards.

For Pakistan, the strategic compulsion really here is to reestablish some form of deterrence between India and Pakistan. For the past couple of weeks, India had been, you know, slowly increasing the ante and Pakistan had been warning that if India undertook any kind of provocation of the sort that we saw on the night of May 7th, Pakistan would have no choice but to respond.

I don't think Pakistan necessarily sees it will see its response as escalation. I think it will very much view it as a retaliation, in which as you see from the language of the National Security Committee readout suggests that Pakistan has the right to do under Article 51 of the U.N. Charter.

LEE: And I do think it's really important to understand this current conflict in the broader context. You know, we are talking about two rival nations that have been fighting over Kashmir since their independence. How does this conflict, at least so far, compare to previous clashes over the territory?

HUMAYUN: Well, I think it's fair to say that this is the highest that tensions have been between India and Pakistan in many, many years. The last engagement that occurred between the two countries was in 2019. At that time, you know, India undertook an aerial strike into Pakistan, but there were no casualties. This time, as you know, there have been at least 31 casualties on the Pakistani side and about 57 injured.

I think the situation this time is very different. You know, we are in a situation where I think it's also fair to say that for the most part, all bets are off. This is uncharted territory for both countries. The kind of attack that Pakistan experienced on the evening of May 6th, May 7th is the largest assault that the country has faced since the 1971 war.

I think it's worth remembering that that was a time when neither country had nuclear weapons. So, all of this is now taking in place in a very alarming context. The concern is that since 2016, India has, on multiple occasions, attempted to lower the threshold under which it can resort to some form of military action. The danger here is that it forces Pakistan to then respond in kind. And, you know, once escalation is underway, it's very difficult to control the situation.

LEE: And, Fahd, what do you make of the international response so far? You know, it's clear that there is no appetite, certainly not here in Washington, for another full-blown war to break out. Is this a situation, in your view, where the U.S. can play a mediating role?

HUMAYUN: Well, I think in the past 48 hours, we've seen a couple of statements from President Trump suggesting that, you know, he's willing to step in and mediate if needed. What we do know is the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, has spoken to both the Indian and Pakistani sides respectively.

[00:10:05]

So, it seems as if there has been an attempt to try and see whether de-escalation is possible.

I think the challenge really now is the ball is very much in Pakistan's court. And I think the question really will be whether, you know, Pakistan -- there are reports now, credible reports that in the aerial engagement that took place in the last 24 hours, Pakistan did shoot down several Indian jets. The question really is whether Pakistan will, you know, sort of take that as enough of a win, and, you know, this could possibly -- that could possibly be an off ramp in this moment.

However, I think the sort of the statements that we've seen from Pakistan's prime minister from the ISPR in Pakistan following that skirmish suggests that they actually see that the aerial engagements were very much in self-defense and retaliation will be at some point down the road. The language that the NSC readout uses is at a time and place of Pakistan's choosing.

LEE: Fahd Humayun, thank you so much.

Russia's unilateral three-day ceasefire in Ukraine is only a few hours old, but already there are reports of violations. The Ukrainian Air Force says Russia launched guided bombs on the Sumy region in Northern Ukraine. That's according to Reuters, which said it couldn't independently verify the claims and that there was no word on the damage so far.

Russian President Vladimir Putin declared the truth ahead of this week's celebrations commemorating 80 years since the defeat of Nazi Germany in World War II. A huge military parade is planned in Moscow on Friday, and Chinese President Xi Jinping is among the world leaders in attendance. He is scheduled to meet with the president, President Putin that is, in the day ahead.

More now from CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reporting from Eastern Ukraine.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, in the opening minutes of the ceasefire, we heard from one military unit observing a significant part of the frontline that they still saw four, five Russian artillery strikes, even a jet taking off in the opening hour. Many Russian reconnaissance drones also over Ukrainian positions. So, in those initial stages, no immediate sign of the guns falling silent.

That may potentially change indeed in the city we're in here. We've heard some bangs over the past minutes or so, deep suspicion amongst Ukrainian forces about Russia's motivation in calling this their second unilateral ceasefire.

Indeed Ukraine hasn't explicitly signed on to its forces stopping their activities in that 72 hour window, and indeed Kyiv suggesting this might more be about Vladimir Putin trying to secure peaceful conditions for his Red Square Victory Parade on Friday.

Suspicions amongst Ukrainian soldiers, we've been talking to too, that they saw during the Easter ceasefire, much shorter, about 30 hours. Russia, in fact, using that moment to reposition to reinforce its troops, and then when that ceasefire ended, launched more trench assaults in certain areas, so concerns that might indeed be the Kremlin's tactic again as well.

But, more broadly, these persistent -- these two ceasefires now and the fact that they haven't yet developed into a broader, longer lasting, slowing on the violence on the frontline, leaving many observers concerned about what this means more widely for diplomacy.

Russia's demands still quite maximalist, still, it seems, wanting to have control over more of the areas that it claims, and, in fact, it currently occupies right now. And indeed U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance suggesting that Russia is asking too much in the current negotiations, increasing impatience on the side of the Americans certainly, signs potentially of greater sympathy for key position. Now, the rare earth minerals deal has indeed been signed.

But it's these moments of ceasefire here, the fact that so little trust exists between the parties that really are at test for that kind of diplomacy. And, of course, here in places like this, a real desperate need for some kind of quiet night.

Significant numbers of drones fired at Kyiv and across Ukraine the previous night, and indeed Russia talking about its air traffic being interrupted, 60,000 passengers delayed in their flights is what Russia said was an almost record number of drones being fired by Ukraine at military and other targets across the country.

[00:15:03]

So, significant violence raging from both sides, and this hope that this potential ceasefire might calm, that treated with deep suspicion. And from the early signs here, not an immediate cessation of Russian activity.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Eastern Ukraine.

LEE: As the Catholic Conclave enters its second day, all eyes are watching this chimney in Vatican City for smoke that will signal the election of a new pope. Details coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:20:00]

LEE: Day two of the Conclave to select a new pope will begin in just a few hours. We are looking at live pictures out of Vatican City where 133 cardinals will cast secret ballots to elect Pope Francis' successor.

Black smoke billowed from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel on Wednesday indicating that a new pope had not been chosen yet. Tens of thousands watched the chimney for white smoke, which will signal that a new pope has been chosen to lead the nearly 1.5 billion Catholics around the world.

There could be as many as four votes in the coming hours. Here's what some of the faithful in Rome say they are hoping to see.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone that's very much like Francis was, humble.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Integrity, honesty, care for everybody out in the world, really. So --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm hoping that this pope will be more like St. Pope John Paul II and lead the church and unify the church and just be a lovely shepherd for all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: CNN's Christopher Lamb has more on some of the cardinals who are seen as the frontrunners.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): After days of mourning of Pope Francis and intense discussions and meetings, the only thing on people's lips in the Vatican is who will be Francis' successor. A wide open race with, at this stage, little consensus on who might be chosen.

Cheers for the American cardinals heading to the Vatican, this perhaps the best chance yet of an American pontiff.

A special mass for the election of a pope in St. Peter's Basilica, and a message to the electors from the dean of the College of Cardinals.

CARDINAL GIOVANNI BATTISTA RE, DEAN, COLLEGE OF CARDINALS: This is a human act for which every personal consideration must be set aside.

LAMB: With the cardinals gathered and sworn to follow the secrecy rules of the Conclave, and if elected to serve faithfully, some have pointed to possible frontrunners. Italy's Cardinal Parolin, the Holy Sea secretary of state, receiving, it seems, some encouragement from Cardinal Re today, Filipino Cardinal Tagle, who will be the first Asian pontiff cardinal, Chicago-born Cardinal Prevost, who will be the first American pope, and Congolese Cardinal Ambongo, a respected figure who may receive votes.

But as an old saying about papal election goes, he who enters the Conclave as pope leaves it as a cardinal. In lockdown, totally isolated from the outside world, the eyes of the world are fixed on one small Vatican chimney waiting for white smoke.

Christopher Lamb, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEE: Still to come, what the Israeli Prime Minister is saying about the number of hostages still believed to be alive in Gaza.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:25:00]

LEE: Welcome back. I'm M.J. Lee. Let's take a look at today's top stories.

There are growing fears that clashes between India and Pakistan will spiral into an all-out war. Pakistan says the death toll from Indian strikes has risen to 31 with dozens of people injured. And an Indian defense source says Pakistani shelling in India-administered Kashmir has killed 12 people and left many more wounded.

Ukraine is reporting attacks on the Northern Sumy region just hours into a three-day ceasefire declared by Moscow. Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the unilateral truce to mark Victory Day, that's 80 years since the allies defeat of Nazi Germany in World War II.

The second day of the Conclave gets underway in just a few hours. The Catholic cardinals who are gathered at Vatican City did not choose a new pontiff on Wednesday in their first secret ballot. As a result, black smoke came out of the chimney on top of the Sistine Chapel.

The heightened hostilities between India and Pakistan stem from the massacre and Kashmir more than two weeks ago. The region is controlled in part by both countries, but both claim all of it.

CNN's Isobel Young picks up the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISOBEL YEUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are India and Pakistan, these two nuclear armed neighbors, on the brink of war?

We've seen India launch missiles towards what they call terrorist infrastructure in Pakistan. This comes after 26 civilians have been killed in Indian-controlled Kashmir by militants, something that India accuses Pakistan of involvement and something that Pakistan completely denies.

But this is a long conflict, one that's been fought over many, many times. So, how did we get here?

Well, Kashmir is a region that is claimed in its entirety by both Pakistan up here and India here, and China controls this area in the east. This de facto border is overseen by both sides.

[00:30:00]

This beautiful mountainous land looks so picturesque, but it is one of the most militarized zones in the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More news from Kashmir.

YEUNG (voice-over): It all started in 1947 when the British divided India, its former colony, into two countries: Pakistan, a Muslim majority country, and India, a Hindu majority one. The borders were hastily drawn up, and Kashmir was caught in the middle.

Soon enough, war broke out between the two newly independent countries over control of Kashmir.

YEUNG: Essentially, that's an issue that's just never been resolved, and it's still at the heart of a lot of the violence that is playing out today.

YEUNG (voice-over): Another two wars broke out: one in 1965 and one in 1971. And over the past two decades, militants have consistently fought with Indian security forces. Some of them have been demanding independence for Kashmir, and some of them have been demanding that Kashmir becomes a part of Pakistan.

YEUNG: The Indian government has consistently said that these militants are supported by Pakistan, and Pakistan have consistently said that they have no involvement at all in them.

But over the years, tens of thousands of people have been killed in this violence.

YEUNG (voice-over): For example, you might remember back in 2019 when there was this surge in violence. This happened after a cross-border militant attack in India and India responding with the first incursion by Indian Air Force into Pakistani territory for decades.

YEUNG: In 2021, both Pakistan and India recommitted to a ceasefire that was along this line of control here, and that held fairly well for the last four years or so.

YEUNG (voice-over): But now, with recent events playing out, there is a lot of fear about how this violence might escalate.

YEUNG: And with international norms now really thrown into question, a lot of people are asking, where do we go from here?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M.J. LEE, CNN ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT: Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, is trying to clear up confusion about how many hostages in Gaza are still believed to be alive.

Israel's official line has been that the number stands at 24, but that it has serious concerns about three of them. However, U.S. President Donald Trump shocked families of hostages on Tuesday when he said that three more hostages had died and that 21 are still alive.

The families are now demanding that Israel's government set things straight and reveal any new information that it has. Netanyahu posted this statement on Wednesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We know for certain that 21 are alive. That's not in dispute. There are three others where, unfortunately, it's uncertain whether they're alive.

So, the definite number we're stating is 21. We're not giving up on anyone. Not on the three and not on any of the others. We want to bring them all home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: President Trump's tariffs have thrown world markets into great turmoil. Now, the White House says its planning to announce a major trade deal. Details of what the White House is saying about that, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:37:56]

LEE: U.S. President Donald Trump says he'll announce a trade deal in the coming hours. And a source tells CNN that deal will be with the U.K.

The president said on social media that he'll hold a news conference about, quote, "a major trade deal with representatives of a big and highly respected country."

It's another sign that relief could be in sight for the global economy, which has been roiled by Mr. Trump's historically high tariffs.

Fed Chairman Jerome Powell is warning that trade talks with key partners could materially change the U.S. economy. Powell's comments came as the Federal Reserve announced it is holding interest rates steady, even as the economy starts to show the effects of Trump's trade war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Trump doubling down on his rhetoric against China, saying that he would not drop the 145 percent tariff on China --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: The warning comes days ahead of this weekend's high-stakes meeting between the U.S. and China. U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and trade representative Jamieson Greer will meet with China's top economic official in Switzerland.

And President Trump says he will not cut tariffs on China ahead of Saturday's trade talks. Senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes has more on the tensions between the world's two biggest economies.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: President Donald Trump doubling down on his rhetoric against China, saying that he would not drop the 145 percent tariff on China to bring them to the negotiating table.

HOLMES (voice-over): This is incredibly important for a number of reasons. One, of course, we have seen that trade between the two countries, the U.S. and China, has effectively come to a grinding halt after this tit-for-tat escalation.

It's also important because of what we learned yesterday, that secretary -- Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, along with other top trade officials in the U.S., will meet with their Chinese counterparts next week.

Scott Bessent really trying to downplay and temper expectations out of that meeting, saying they didn't believe it would be a deal, but it would be something to possibly get to a page where they could de- escalate.

One interesting part of what Donald Trump says, it really goes back on what we heard him saying this weekend when he was asked during an interview if he would lower those tariffs.

[00:40:07]

He said that he believed they would eventually likely lower those tariffs, because he acknowledged that business was impossible to do, given the -- the current stance, given that current tariff number.

HOLMES: So, right now, ahead of those negotiations, ahead of those conversations, Donald Trump going back to that hard line of 145 percent tariffs on China.

Kristen Holmes, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEE: Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm M.J. Lee. I'll be back with more news at the top of the hour. WORLD SPORT is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:45:29] (WORLD SPORT)