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Idaho Firefighters Shot While Responding To Brush Fire; Marathon Debate Underway in Senate On Trump Agenda Bill; Interview With Representative Greg Murphy (R-NC) About Trump's Agenda Bill; Trump Celebrates "Big Victory" After Spending Bill Advances; Families Caught In The Middle Of Funding Debate; Update On Idaho Firefighters Shot While Responding To Brush Fire. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired June 29, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:02:51]
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: We are following breaking news into CNN this evening. I'm Omar Jimenez in New York. Jessica Dean has the night off.
But multiple firefighters have been shot in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, while they were responding to a brush fire.
CNN's Julia Vargas Jones joins us now with the very latest.
Julia, what are you learning here?
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Omar, we know that this is still an active situation. We just got confirmation that is from the fire chief here in Northern Lakes Fire District. There are multiple firefighters that have been shot, and this is still an active situation from the live pictures we're seeing. A lot of law enforcement presence there including Coeur d'Alene Police Department, as well as SWAT teams from our affiliate there, KHQ.
We are also hearing that there are helicopters circling the scene. Again, this is firefighters that were responding to a fire in this area of Idaho near a park. And when they got there, our affiliate reporting that they were shot at in this area.
Again, Omar, we are still learning more about this situation, still very much active, still ongoing. Now a fire and these firefighters, we don't know how many firefighters have been shot at, what is their condition, how many did respond initially? We are seeing those pictures. It seems like a large active scene at the moment. We'll be sure to bring you more updates as we learn more.
JIMENEZ: All right. Julia Vargas Jones, stay on it. Again, we are continuing to follow that breaking news. We'll bring you more details when we get it.
Thank you, Julia.
We're also following breaking news out of Washington, D.C. Two key Medicaid spending carveouts are on the chopping block in the Senate version of the president's agenda bill after the Senate parliamentarian ruled against them. And so that could make it harder for Republicans to get enough votes to pass the bill.
Right now, as you can see, Senator Bernie Sanders there, and a live look at the Senate floor, debate is underway on the Senate floor as Republican leaders push to get a final version of the bill to President Trump's desk by July 4th.
Joining us now live from Capitol Hill is CNN correspondent Julia Benbrook.
So, Julia, can you just talk about the specific carveouts? How big of a loss is this actually for Republicans?
[19:05:07]
JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Omar, a lot has happened and there is still a long ways to go. I mean, Republicans, Senate Republicans took a major step toward passing President Donald Trump's massive agenda bill overnight, his so-called one big, beautiful bill. And he's calling this a great victory. But there are still some potential roadblocks. Only two Republican senators, Rand Paul of Kentucky and Thom Tillis of North Carolina, ended up voting against moving this bill forward.
But there were several GOP lawmakers that have been voicing concerns throughout this process. One of them, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska. And as you mentioned just recently, the parliamentarian ruled against two Medicaid carveouts. And those were specifically tailored to Alaska and Hawaii. So this potentially could make it more difficult to get her vote on final passage.
This is a multi-trillion dollar bill, and it looks to lower federal taxes to boost spending on the military and on border security, and to downsize some government programs like Medicaid. A big focus there. We saw Republicans get this through a procedural step late last night. Then Democrats used a delay tactic having the clerks actually read this entire bill out loud. It's 940 pages. So that took nearly 16 hours.
We are now in the formal debate part of things, hearing from both sides. Lots of opinions on this bill are being discussed on the floor as we see there. And then after that, it moves into vote-a-rama. This is an open ended series of votes on amendments. Some of those have some political messaging going along with them. Others are more substantial. So important to note, we just could see more changes throughout this process.
After all of that, it will then be time to look at final passage in the Senate. If it passes there, then eyes go back to the House where there are likely going to be more difficulties. House Speaker Mike Johnson was able to get this through his chamber very narrowly. a different version of it, and he has warned that any sort of changes could cause more problems.
Republicans have a stated self-imposed goal of getting this to the president's desk for a signature by July 4th. JIMENEZ: And that ruling essentially saying that some of the
provisions would need a 60-vote majority as opposed to the simple majority that we're working with right now in this budget process.
Julia, I want to ask about something else because also today North Carolina Senator Thom Tillis, one of the two Republican no votes to advance the president's agenda bill in the Senate, announced he would not run for reelection. Do we have any more details as to why?
BENBROOK: Tillis said in a statement that this was not a difficult decision. He did emphasize that he wants to spend more time with his family, but he also went into more detail on why he is not seeking reelection. We'll pull up part of that for you now, he said, quote, "In Washington over the last few years, it's become increasingly evident that leaders who are willing to embrace bipartisanship, compromise and demonstrate independent thinking are becoming an endangered species."
Now, he spoke out about this bill, spoke out against it. It major -- his major concern being changes to Medicaid and how those would impact his constituents. And as he opposed advancing the bill, we saw Trump speak out against him, saying that he was making a big mistake and that he would work to meet with people looking to primary Tillis.
Now, North Carolina is, of course, a very important battleground state. This will be closely watched as Republicans try and hang on to their majority in that chamber.
JIMENEZ: All right, Julia Benbrook, thank you so much.
Joining me now is Republican Congressman Greg Murphy of North Carolina.
Of course, once this passes the Senate, it will head over to the House. And Congressman, thanks for being here. The Senate's bill is expected to raise the deficit by nearly $3.3 trillion, at least by the CBO analysis, which is even more than the House version of the bill. You and I spoke when the House version was being -- was being put through.
Are you concerned about, I guess, an additional amount to even when the House version was being worked on?
REP. GREG MURPHY (R-NC): Yes, Omar, I'll go back to my original statement about CBO. I wish I had faith in them to be able to calculate things. I'm a scientist by nature, and I like things to be well objectified and well-researched. I just have a difficult time with CBO. That said, it is problematic. Why is this -- why is it a higher number than what the House's number as we move forward?
There are a lot of things that need to happen between now and when the president signs the bill. Those are some of the questions that are going to have to be answered to reach the desk of the president.
JIMENEZ: And, you know, one of the major sticking points, so obviously the deficit is something that Senator Ron Johnson seems to be having an issue, among others, but him in particular.
[19:10:07]
Another sticking point here has been about Medicaid. And you know, you know as well as anyone, state of North Carolina has an above average enrollment rate in Medicaid, according to the Census. And Senator Thom Tillis from your state, who -- we'll talk about him more in a moment. But he was worried about how Medicaid cuts would hurt his constituents and voted against the bill.
If I'm remembering correctly, the last time we spoke, you were OK with the House cuts. Where do you stand on it now in regards to the Senate's and why do you believe Tillis voted the way he did?
MURPHY: Yes. So, you know, first of all, the problem that we are facing is that we've had an explosion of government dependance. Medicaid has exploded to an area where it shouldn't be. In fact, the last CMS director, I think her main job was to try to infuse DEI and to enroll as many people on Medicaid as possible. So we have a government program that is no longer working really for the people that it's supposed to be vetted for.
I thought the House version was a reasonable version. We went after waste, fraud, abuse. We look for folks who should not be on the Medicaid rolls, the ineligible, those who are illegal in the country, those who are able-bodied. The Senate has taken a different approach and not quite sure why. I'm still working through some of this. Rick Scott's amendment on the FMAP is problematic for me if that includes the president expansion population and dropping that down.
I don't know whether that's going to be able to pass or not. So, I mean, there are things that are problematic. The last thing I want to do is hurt anybody's access to health care. But we also have to be concerned about government explosion of spending and of resources on individuals who do not qualify for them.
JIMENEZ: And, you know, obviously, the concern here, I'm going to bring up the CBO one more time. Your favorite group. But, you know, they estimated it would leave nearly 12 million -- 12 million people or so that would be affected by this over the course of implementing this bill. And it's dividing Senate Republicans. I mean, we've seen some folks concerned about how that would trickle down to rural hospitals and potentially close those.
Also concerns that some folks who actually are under the requirements, they are working, they are able-bodied, that might just get lost in the paperwork of having to report every six months. Everybody's lives are busy. But I guess, do you have any concerns about rural hospitals being affected here, even with the amendment for a surplus for those hospitals?
MURPHY: Yes. So, you know, here I've practiced in eastern North Carolina going on now I think 32 years. We're a very rural, very poor portion of North Carolina. In fact, our recruitment areas, if you put it into a state, would be in one of the big -- one of the poorest states in the country. So it is a major concern. You know, going back to you said somebody having to fill out paperwork
every six months. I'm sorry, if you're getting government benefits, spending a few minutes to make sure that you qualify for them is OK. It's an adult responsibility. So I'm not worried about that. As we move forward, look, you know, when the CBO says 11 million, 12 million people won't have access to health care, these are the individuals, Omar, who should -- who are not eligible for the -- for Medicaid as it is written right now.
These are the things that we saw with the explosion of Medicaid enrollees with the last administration. So again, we want a government program that works for the individuals that it's supposed to work for. Those who are -- you know, the impoverished child, the pregnant female, the disabled or the impoverished elderly individual. Those are what Medicaid is supposed to work for.
If we -- if we're going to blow it up for everything else, we can't afford that. We simply can't afford that. And those individuals who --
JIMENEZ: Sorry for interrupting.
MURPHY: Let me just say one thing.
JIMENEZ: Yes, yes, go for it. Go for it.
MURPHY: Those individuals who (INAUDIBLE) and couldn't get a job, you can get a job these days. And health insurance, the number one provider of health insurance in this country is the private community. So let's push back on that a little bit and push the, you know, the victimization and the dependency on the federal government.
JIMENEZ: Well, I will say, too, just even on the frequent work requirement checks, it does create a potential situation where someone could lose their job or someone could end up in a situation where they can't work for a bit, and just by nature of the way they're caught up, just by nature of the frequency of checking in, they could end up falling off of coverage.
MURPHY: Yes, I get that. But that's the exception, not the rule. We can't build a government on just a small exceptions.
JIMENEZ: All right. I will take your answer for your word. I want to ask you about the senator of your state because Republican Senator Thom Tillis abruptly announcing he won't seek reelection just hours after President Trump blasted him for voting against the bill.
Congressman, I should ask you, are you considering running for that open Senate seat?
MURPHY: Well, you know, I think Senator Tillis did what his conscience dictated, conscience, rather, dictated.
[19:15:06]
And, you know, hey, that's what we all should be doing. I've had my phones been blowing up today with individuals asking me if I would consider running. And, you know, I will take it into consideration. What we have to do right now is try to get this bill squared away, get it done the right way for the American people. There will be plenty of time for the politics later.
JIMENEZ: And look, just on that, so safe to say you're open to it. Still exploring your options?
MURPHY: Sure.
JIMENEZ: I was just talking with Senator Markwayne Mullin earlier, and he told me there's a lot more to Senator Tillis' announcement than just fallout with the president. Do you have a sense of what he might have been talking about there?
MURPHY: You know, I think, you know, I've had several discussions with our senators, really, you know, over the last year. It's what we do. It's part of our delegation. I think there has been some disillusionment with the way of Washington, D.C., and the way it's running. Is this a surprise to me that he's announcing this? I can't say that it is a surprise.
We have a difficult time in Washington. You know, the politics really run the day. I'd love us to have 100 people in the Senate and 435 in the House that do things for the right reasons, because the right things to do. You know, we do have our extremes. And I think those things oftentimes dictate policy. What we need are thoughtful individuals that can do bipartisan work, that can reach across the aisle, that can do things that are good for the American people.
Yes, we're going to have our proclivities. We're going to have our, you know, things that we agree on and things we don't agree on. But it has gotten so polarized in Washington, D.C. and, you know, truth be told, not pointing out to you directly, Omar, but I think the media has a great part in the disservice of what's happened with our country and how polarized we are right now.
So I think it's really, you know, Tillis's not running again is more of an indictment of the system than not necessarily an indictment of an individual.
JIMENEZ: Well, not to you specifically, some politicians have leaned into some divisions on both sides of the aisle more than others.
Just before we go, look, obviously the Senate is working through, they'll do what they need to do. But no matter where it ends up, it's going to -- if it passes, it's going to end up in you all's lap. And the president has put out this sort of self-imposed deadline or hope of July 4th.
Given what you've seen so far, are you optimistic that the House will be able to get something from the Senate in time, work through your changes and get it to the president's desk by then?
MURPHY: Yes. You know, Omar, I think there are a lot of folks that have real concerns with what's going on on the Senate side. I'm just being a realist, you know, I'm just going to call things objectively. I'm not sure how that gets to the desk by July the 4th.
I want us to have a good product. And I think that's what both chambers want. There are some major concerns by certain individuals. I have one concern. Personally, I don't like what the Senate has done with the doc fix. We've been pounding our physicians who take care of our patients, and we've lost 30 percent inflation adjusted over the last 20 years. I'm not sure why the Senate took out the MEI adjustment, which was foundational for allowing -- for helping physicians still take care of Medicare patients.
So again, these are -- there are a lot of different segments. Vast majority of the Senate bill is almost identical to the House bill. I think they strengthened it in some regards. But there are some real questions that are going to have to be answered before that gets to the president's desk.
JIMENEZ: We'll see what the final language looks like.
Congressman Greg Murphy, really appreciate the time. Thanks for being here.
MURPHY: Thank you. Have a good day.
JIMENEZ: All right. Meanwhile, President Trump is working to push his agenda bill across the finish line. We're live from the White House next.
You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:11]
JIMENEZ: All right, everyone, we are keeping a close eye on Capitol Hill, where right now Senate lawmakers are taking part in an hours long debate as Republicans attempt to pass the president's so-called big, beautiful bill. There's Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer on the floor right now.
Let's turn now to the White House, where CNN's Kevin Liptak has been tracking the president's latest push to get his agenda over the finish line.
I mean, Kevin, look, the president has been quick to both praise or blast Republicans on social media, depending on their vote. What has he been saying?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And it's clear the president is viewing this bill as a loyalty test for Republicans. And you see that in how the White House message to Capitol Hill last night, as this debate was ongoing, saying that Trump was committed to fulfilling his campaign promises and failure to pass this bill would be what they called the ultimate betrayal.
And it is true that this bill does contain, you know, almost the entirety of the president's domestic agenda, whether it's money for immigration enforcement, whether it's extending and expanding those tax cuts that the president put into place during his first term, and you do see how he's treating some of these Republicans who are opposed to this bill very harshly as sort of a precursor to all of the Republicans who are now considering how they're going to vote on this final bill.
For example, the North Carolina Senator Thom Tillis, the president openly said that he would be supportive of a primary challenge to Tillis after he voted against this procedural measure. Of course, Tillis just today said that he would not be running for reelection, essentially saying that he wanted no part in this loyalty test that the president was setting up.
But I do think it's also clear that the president recognizes some of the political challenges that his fellow Republicans will face as they decide whether or not to support this bill.
[19:25:04]
He lent some voice to that earlier today in an interview. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let's see. We're cutting, yes, $1.7 trillion. Think of it. I think I just saw the number a little while ago, $1.7 trillion. But we can grow our country so much more than that. And we're not going to have to do -- you also have to get elected, you know, when you do cutting, you have to be a little bit careful because people don't like necessarily cutting if they get used to something. And what I want to do is do it through growth. We're going to have growth like we've never seen before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIPTAK: So you hear the president there giving voice to some of these concerns about cutting too much in this bill. That ultimately was why Thom Tillis voted against this. He was concerned about some of the changes that were being made to the social safety net.
The challenge for President Trump is that there's a group of -- a whole other group of Republicans who are concerned that this bill doesn't cut enough, that it costs too much, that it adds too much to the deficit. The president sort of addressed those people on social media a few hours ago, saying that, "For all cost cutting Republicans, of which I am one, remember, you still have to get reelected. Don't go too crazy. We will make it all up times 10 with growth more than even before."
So the president trying to send a message to some of these fiscal hawks not to cut too much because it might be unpopular among the populace, but we did get a sense of some of the challenges that the president will face going ahead. The ultra conservative House Freedom Caucus, the Republicans in the House of Representatives, tweeted earlier about the deficit aspects of this bill, saying that the Senate version would explode the deficit even more than the House version, which they had already voted for.
And remember, once the Senate passes the bill, it will have to go back to the house to vote on some of those changes, and the president will need some of those House Freedom Members to come along if he is to get this bill to his desk. And so you do see all of these obstacles still facing the president. The president clearly attuned to some of the politics here, but still hopeful that it will be on his desk by Friday.
JIMENEZ: Kevin Liptak, appreciate the reporting, as always.
Meanwhile, Republicans in the Senate are scrambling this weekend, if you haven't heard, to try to get the votes needed to pass the president's agenda quickly. But with a procedural rule slowing down efforts to change Medicaid, some senators are considering using the House version of Medicaid cuts. That's the plan that the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates means nearly 11 million people would lose their health insurance over the next decade.
That's upset both Democrats and some Republicans because of how hard that could be on American families.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny talks to people who have so much riding on this decision.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COURTNEY LEADER, MOTHER OF FIVE, DAUGHTER RELIES ON MEDICAID: I know that they're saying that they're not planning to cut Medicaid, right? I reached out, concerned that if any changes are made, there will be this trickle-down effect that will impact families like mine.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The front lines of the Medicaid debate are right here in Courtney Leader's kitchen.
What is the face of Medicaid, do you think? And is it different than you think some people may assume?
LEADER: I mean, we are the face of Medicaid.
ZELENY (voice-over): The Missouri mother of five wrote her Republican senator, Josh Hawley, to explain how slashing benefits would be devastating to her 9-year-old daughter, Serena, who lives with brain damage and cerebral palsy.
LEADER: Our private insurance won't cover the formula. It doesn't cover the feeding tube pump. The hit on our budget, it would be over $1500 a month just for the formula, just for the pump rental. And those are things that we have to have to keep my daughter alive.
There's my beautiful smile.
ZELENY: We came along for the ride, sitting behind Serena's nurse, who's funded by Medicaid, as they drove to weekly therapy sessions, also paid by Medicaid, which more than one in five Missourians rely on for health coverage.
LEADER: We cannot let people like my daughter lose her benefits. And if anybody tells you that, oh, she's covered, she's protected, I would really encourage you to say how. What provisions have you made to make sure that those who meet eligibility requirements are covered?
ZELENY: We visited Ozarks Food Harvest, which distributes food across one third of Missouri.
What is the demand like for food?
BART BROWN, CEO, OZARKS FOOD HARVEST: Unfortunately, Jeff, right now the demand for food is quite a bit higher than it was even at the height of the COVID crisis.
ZELENY (voice-over): Congress is weighing billions in cuts to food assistance programs like SNAP, once known as food stamps. That will increase demand at already crowded food pantries like this.
[19:30:07]
How important is this food to you?
JUNE OWENS, MARSHFIELD, MISSOURI, RESIDENT: Well, it really helps us get through the month, and they have a good variety of things.
ZELENY: So your husband got hurt in an accident?
MARSHFIELD: Yes, he fell between 10 and 11 feet and on landed on top of his head, but it kind of changed everything. We were in the process of getting all of our ducks in a row, so to speak, for retirement. And then he got hurt really bad and it just upside downed everything.
And so food pantries do that -- they have helped us through the situation.
ZELENY (voice over): Another hotly contested piece of the spending bill is deep cuts to rural hospitals.
Inside a maternity ward in Clinton, Missouri, Dr. Jennifer Blair worries for her patients.
DR. JENNIFER BLAIR, GOLDEN VALLEY MEMORIAL HEALTHCARE. CLINTON, MISSOURI: Missouri has the fourth largest number of maternity care deserts. We actually are surrounded by several maternity care deserts that's defined as a county that has no or very limited access to obstetric services for their patients.
If we were to lose that access, the Birthing Center here at Golden Valley, our patients would have to travel more than 60 miles.
CRAIG THOMPSON, CEO, GOLDEN VALLEY MEMORIAL HEALTHCARE: Four out of five babies that are delivered in our hospital are covered by Medicaid. And that's not unique to us.
ZELENY (voice over): Craig Thompson is CEO of Golden Valley Memorial. He said many rural hospitals in. Missouri and across the country are at high risk for closure.
ZELENY (on camera): What is your hope for what happens over the next couple of weeks in Washington in this debate?
THOMPSON: Well, I think the thing that again, would be beneficial is for better understanding of who Medicaid serves and what the real Medicaid face looks like. Because again, I think that's been lost somewhere along the way.
ZELENY (voice over): Courtney Leader shares that hope, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good. Oh my goodness.
COURTNEY LEADER, MOTHER OF FIVE, DAUGHTER RELIES ON MEDICAID: I do not have my daughter enrolled on in Medicaid so that we can have fancy things. I have my daughter enrolled in Medicaid so that we can keep her alive.
ZELENY (on camera): What are you worried about the most?
LEADER: I am worried that the red tape is going to affect our Medicaid because of just the oversight burdens. And that as a result. I am going to lose my daughter.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JIMENEZ: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thank you for that reporting.
We are continuing to follow this breaking news in Idaho. Multiple firefighters shot while responding to a brush fire. We are expecting a press conference soon, and we are continuing to monitor. That's what they appear to be setting up there.
And just to refresh a little bit --
You know what, we are actually going to squeeze in a quick break and we will bring you this press conference as soon as it happens. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:37:00]
JIMENEZ: Welcome back, everyone.
I want to take you to this news conference in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho where multiple firefighters have been shot. Let's listen.
SHERIFF ROBERT "BOB" NORRIS, KOOTENAI COUNTY SHERIFF: An unknown amount of casualties. We still have civilians that are coming off of that mountain. We have -- we might have civilians that are stuck or in shock on that mountain. So this is a very, very fresh situation.
We are actively taking sniper fire as we speak. This is a -- this is an active situation.
We have multiple agencies that are on scene from local and federal authorities and we are prepared to neutralize this suspect who is currently actively shooting at public safety personnel. We are prepared to neutralize this suspect as quickly as possible and that's really all that we know as of right now.
We don't know who the suspects are. We don't know how many there are. So I know that it is very, very, very early. And I don't think that any questions would yield anything. But Chief, do you have anything? Was I accurate in what we were reporting?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
NORRIS: Okay. So well take a couple questions, but I'd like to remind you that's very, very preliminary. And I am not so sure were going to have any additional information.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) as to why the two deaths, are they fire personnel that have died?
NORRIS: We know that there are two deaths and believe that they are. Yes.
REPORTER: Have they been taken off of the mountain?
NORRIS: Yes. No, we are still in that process.
ADAM BROWN, REPORTER: Adam Brown (INAUDIBLE). You mentioned that there were multiple people that have been shot. Do you have an exact number at the moment?
NORRIS: No, no, we do not.
ALEX, REPORTER: Alex (INAUDIBLE) spokesman. How are you going about evacuating people from the mountain or getting personnel out of there who are being shot at? I mean, what does that process look like?
NORRIS: Right now, we are developing a plan to be able to suppress these individuals' firefighting capability and when we get that under control, when we have an opportunity to suppress that, then we will continue our removing of people who are on the mountain, who were on for a hike, or public safety personnel or people who live on the backside of the mountain.
REPORTER: Do you have any indication of what type of firearms are being used from this from the suspect?
NORRIS: Well, it appears that modern day sporting rifles are being used. It appears that high powered rifles are being used. Yes.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
NORRIS: I don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It started out as a half-acre.
[19:40:04]
REPORTER: Do we know about how many minutes after shots were fired when fire crews arrived?
NORRIS: Well, we got the first call at 1:21 and we have reports that they were taking shots at about 2:00. I don't know what time they arrived on scene, I don't know what time the firefighters arrived on scene, but we can get you that information at the next briefing if you'd like.
REPORTER: How many engines were on scene when shots were fired, do we know that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three. I believe. We have three.
REPORTER: Okay. Thank you.
REPORTER: And just to be clear, the people who responded, they were wildland firefighters or they were local firefighters fighting --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The city of Coeur D'Alene and Kootenai Fire Rescue.
NORRIS: Yes, sir.
REPORTER: When shots were fired, were they at an accelerated rate or was it a single shot?
NORRIS: Oh, no. We are taking rapid fire up there. In the back.
REPORTER: You keep referring to individuals. Does that how you are referring to the casualties or like, the amount of suspects you believe to be?
NORRIS: Well, we don't know how many suspects are up there, and we don't know how many casualties that there are. Yes, I suspect we will have people coming forward that maybe are stuck up there that drove themselves to the hospital, but I suspect that would likely be the case.
REPORTER: Do we have confirmation that there are people stuck up there?
NORRIS: People are still coming off the mountain, so it would only be safe to assume that the mountain is not clear.
REPORTER: As of right now, is there an active threat to the --
NORRIS: Absolutely. Absolutely, there is. Yes.
REPORTER: Has there been a Shelter-In-Place order put forth?
NORRIS: Yes, there has. And I would encourage all of you to tell people to stay away from the area. Do not come to the area. Stay away from the area. This is going to be, if these individuals are not neutralized quickly, this is going to be a likely a multi-day operation.
REPORTER: So is the suspect in a home up there or are they in -- do we have indication of where they might be on the mountain? NORRIS: Yes. We don't believe that they're in a home up there at this
time.
REPORTER: So they're just kind of out in the open firing?
NORRIS: Well, the heavy brush, well-prepared. So yes, they're blending in with their surroundings.
REPORTER: Sheriff Norris --
NORRIS: Go ahead.
REPORTER: Did you mention that the person that called it in is most likely the shooter?
NORRIS: No, no, we didn't say that. We said the first call was at 1:21 on a Fire, and then we started receiving over radio that the firefighters -- firefighters were receiving shots fired from the mountain.
REPORTER: Sheriff Norris, has anything happened like this before, and if so, do you think you and other law enforcement entities will be more aware going forward?
NORRIS: You know, this is an interesting dynamic, this -- you know, we have seen some of these things in an urban environment where firefighters were in an urban setting, putting out firefighters during civil disobedience, getting shot at, I've seen that.
I can't say that I've seen it in a rural setting myself, but I have seen it in an urban setting frequently, where firefighters do get shot at and, you know, civil unrest. Yes.
REPORTER: So do we know if there is one or two shooters?
NORRIS: We don't know if t here's one, two, three or four. Yes, we don't know.
REPORTER: Just for the fire -- the fire itself -- firefighting efforts, is it contained? Is it still spreading? What does that look like?
NORRIS: Well, it is going to its going to keep burning because we can't put a lot of resources on there right now. But Chief --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We won't put any resources out there until the threat is neutralized.
REPORTER: Do we have a risk of wildfire because of high winds? Is that going to fuel the fire or anything, or is it --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are at a high state right now in Wildland, so it will calm down as the evening progresses, but then it will pick back up tomorrow. Thank you. Hopefully this is neutralized by then.
REPORTER: Sheriff Norris, how are you feeling about this overall from when you first got the call to just now from what you've learned?
NORRIS: You know what? It is going to be the tough next couple of hours. Yes, absolutely. I am hoping that somebody has a clear shot and is able to neutralize because they are not, at this point in time, showing any evidence of wanting to surrender.
So as soon as somebody has a clear shot, I encourage them to take that shot and neutralize the threat.
REPORTER: I've seen several LifeFlight helicopters coming in and out. Are there any other air resources that are being used at the moment?
NORRIS: Oh yes. We have our Emergency Operations Bureau that is containing assets and whenever a situation goes beyond the local resources, which this has, like I said, we have other counties that are here. We have federal authorities that are here, and we will neutralize this threat.
[19:45:16]
REPORTER: So I know you touched on this, with the suspects, you know, we know there is at least one, but you said possibly others. Is it coming from multiple different locations that bullets are coming from that might indicate that there is more than one suspect.
NORRIS: Yes. Oh, yes. Yep, yep.
REPORTER: So, it is coming from not just one.
NORRIS: Yes, it is what the officers and deputies are reporting up on the mountain right now. So --
REPORTER: Have any officers been hit?
NORRIS: As of right now, we don't have any officers that have been hit -- okay.
REPORTER: Can you just confirm list of all the law enforcement authorities that are here on scene?
NORRIS: Well, I have not gotten a list yet, but however, if I mean pretty much everybody that's in this region, we have some Spokane resources that are here. We have Marshals Office that are on scene. Bonner County Sheriff is here, Coeur D'Alene's of course, is here, Idaho State Police. But we have a multitude of resources right now.
So, okay, what well do is Lieutenant Mark Ellis is going to be our -- one of our press relations here and we will determine what time we will do another press conference or if the next one will just be a press release. So I am thinking it will probably be a press conference and it will probably be somewhere in the next three or four hours, unless something significant happens before then.
Okay. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much. Thank you. JIMENEZ: All right. You have been listening to Sheriff Bob Norris in
the Coeur D'Alene, Idaho area that is on the border between Washington, the state of Washington and Idaho, where we just learned that two people have been killed, two Fire personnel, as we understand, have been killed while responding to a brush fire in Idaho.
But critically, the Sheriff says they are continuing to take sniper fire as he was speaking, saying, "Additionally, we are taking rapid fire up there at the shooting site" and at this point, he said, quoting here, "We are prepared to neutralize this suspect who is currently actively shooting at public safety personnel."
This is more of a rural area, and the sheriff even noted that, saying that he has maybe seen situations where Fire personnel or first responders were shot at in urban environments, city environments, but not so much in an environment like this.
He went on to say, "There is absolutely an active threat right now to the public in the immediate area," as again, he says they are taking rapid fire out there. And he even went on to say, "I'm hoping someone has a clear shot," likely in regards to the law enforcement on the scene, because at this point they are not showing any signs -- they are not seeing any signs that this is a person who wants to surrender and whether it is a person or people, we still do not know.
As law enforcement, we just heard said that they are still trying to determine that. They don't know who the suspects are. They don't know how many there are right now, and that when they are trying to figure out where these shots are coming from, they may be coming from multiple directions, leading them to again, question that there may be multiple shooters here.
We are hearing from the FBI Deputy Director saying that FBI assets are headed to the scene in Coeur D'Alene to provide tactical and operational support as they emphasize, it is an active scene. And the Fire personnel were responding to an active brush fire where we heard as part of this press conference that they are not able to continue with those firefighting efforts because of the public safety risks, and that they're not going to put further people out there until they figure out what's going on.
I want to bring in Chief Charles Ramsey, our CNN senior law enforcement analyst and former Washington, D.C. Police Chief.
Obviously, look, this is a very serious situation, an active situation, as we just heard from the Sheriff, that they are actively taking sniper fire as we speak. Where do you even begin to try to figure out where this shooter or shooters may be and try to secure the scene?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, they are in a very difficult situation right now. Listening to the sheriff, it sounds as if there are perhaps wounded people that may still be on the mountainside that they simply can't get to because of the degree of sniper fire that they're taking, so it is going to be a very difficult situation.
[19:50:00]
Now, they may be able to get a fix on the direction of fire and get an area where they believe the shooter is located. But the way the Sheriff sounds, I think, he believes there is more than one shooter up there. And if that's the case, that just adds to the complexity of the whole thing.
They'll try to establish a perimeter to try to keep a person contained within a particular area. But right now, it is very, very difficult. I don't know what the terrain looks like and how exposed people are when they try to do that. But he said that he didn't believe the person was in a structure, but there is heavy brush up on the mountainside. I guess a lot of hiking and so forth takes place in that particular area.
But we are probably dealing with someone who obviously knows that area very well, very adept at, you know, being in that kind of environment and that's going to make it even more difficult.
Now, you know, they've got a lot of assets coming on the way. You can start to see it now as from some of the footage, both the FBI, local, state, they've got SWAT team snipers, counter snipers of their own that are there, but you've got to first locate the individual.
If you've still got people that are trapped on the mountainside again, you don't want to hurt any innocent people. So you really have to just zero in on the person or persons that are actually doing the shooting. And that's going to -- that's going to be a little difficult for them to do right now.
JIMENEZ: And as we show some of the terrain here, to give people an idea of where exactly this is, it does seem that there is a large Coeur D'Alene National Forest just on the edge of this town, which of course, as we heard from the Sheriff, would give a lot of cover for whatever fire scene they may have been battling prior to the shooting actually unfolding.
We heard from the sheriff that at this point, they believe modern day sporting rifles or high powered rifles is what is being used here in the moment, and that if the suspect is not neutralized quickly, this could turn into a multi-day situation. And that's what I want to ask to get your perspective on, Chief Ramsey, because look, obviously they want this to unfold in as safe a manner as possible in regards to neutralizing the suspect as the Sheriff put it.
But if it doesn't happen today, how does the pursuit of a suspect or the attempt to regain a sense of safety evolve as time goes on here?
RAMSEY: Well, I mean, they'll continue to try to, you know, tighten the search area the best they can, but if they're taking sniper fire, again, you know, it is going to be very difficult for the responding officers to be able to do it in a way in which they can avoid getting shot themselves. Now, as it begins to get dark, you've got thermal imaging technology
that will be utilized that may pinpoint where you have a person. Again, you won't know if it is a person who is just trapped on the side of the mountain. Is it your shooter? But they'll be able to at least be able to start to zero in on, you know, a location where an individual might be. That would be very, very helpful, once they're able to apply that technology, they're probably already utilizing that.
JIMENEZ: And, you know, as we heard from the Sheriff, we don't know if there is one, two, three or even four shooters. They're obviously trying to figure out what that situation is. How does that change the nature of a response by law enforcement, when, again, you don't know if there are multiple shooters here and you're still trying to pinpoint where these shots are coming from?
RAMSEY: Well, if there are multiple shooters and they're firing from different locations, then obviously that's problematic. It adds to the issues that they are facing in trying to pinpoint exactly where they're located. If it is a single shooter and if they're able to somehow pinpoint where that person is and they can narrow that down and they can zero in on that one individual.
But if it gets into that forest area that you described earlier, that's just going to make it even more difficult to try to locate them. This is a person who is familiar with that area, so they have an advantage. And that fire that's going on right now, they can do nothing with that fire right now for the safety of firefighters and others that would be responding.
And so people have to just shelter in place. If you see or hear anything unusual, please contact police right away. But hopefully they can resolve this quickly. But who knows? This could go on for quite a period of time.
JIMENEZ: And as we heard from the Sheriff, he is hoping someone has a clear shot here. And just to review, we are going to try and squeeze in a quick break, but just to review, we have two people that have been reported killed as just announced by the Sheriff, believed to be Fire personnel. This is happening in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho, on the border of Washington State and Idaho. And as the Sheriff emphasized, they are actively taking sniper fire as we speak in trying to one, secure the scene.
[19:55:05]
Firefighters were there responding to a brush fire, but also in trying to find whether there is one shooter, multiple shooters or others. So a lot of details. We are continuing to follow. We are going to pore through them here. We are going to bring you some, squeeze in a quick break here. But stay with us. We are going to have more on this story very soon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News. JIMENEZ: Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM, everyone. I'm Omar Jimenez in New
York. Jessica Dean has the day off.
We are following breaking news tonight. Multiple firefighters have been shot in Idaho and at least two people are dead. This is happening in Coeur D'Alene at Canfield Mountain, a part with hiking and bike trails.
[20:00:28]
