Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

2 Firefighters Dead After Apparent Ambush On First Responders In Idaho; Suspect Intentionally Set Fire In Planned Ambush. Aired 9- 10p ET

Aired June 29, 2025 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:01:06]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the CNN Newsroom everyone. I'm Omar Jimenez in New York. Jessica Dean has the day off. We have breaking news this evening out of Idaho where at least one active shooter is firing at law enforcement with high powered rifles according to the county sheriff. But it could be more as they are trying to get a handle on what the situation is.

Officials say two people who they believe are fire personnel were fatally shot and others were injured while responding to a brush fire in Coeur d'Alene, a city in the northwest region of the state near the Washington, Idaho state border.

That fire is still active as police work to stop the quote, rapid fire shooting. FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino says the agency is headed to the scene to provide tactical and operational support. And we just heard from local sheriff moments ago. Take a listen to some of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF ROBERT NORRIS, KOOTENAI COUNTY, IDAHO: We are actively taking sniper fire as we speak. This is a, this is an active situation. We have multiple agencies that are on scene from local and federal authorities and we are prepared to neutralize this suspect who is currently actively shooting at public safety personnel. We are prepared to neutralize this suspect as quickly as possible.

We don't know how many casualties that there are. I suspect we'll have people coming forward that maybe are stuck up there that drove themselves to the hospital. But I suspect that would likely be the case.

I would encourage all of you to tell people to stay away from the area, do not come to the area, stay away from the area. This is going to be, if these individuals are not neutralized quickly, this is going to be likely a multi-day operation.

It's going to be the tough next couple hours. Yes, absolutely. I'm hoping that somebody has a clear shot and is able to neutralize because they are not at this point in time showing any evidence of wanting to surrender. So as soon as somebody has a clear shot, I encourage them to take that shot and neutralize the threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And as we've been talking about, this is a breaking story and we're going to bring you all the latest developments as they come in. I want to bring in CNN national correspondent Rafael Romo, who joins us now.

So, Rafael, you know, were just listening to the sheriff there give us a situation that law enforcement officers are facing as they're trying to get this scene under control. What are -- what else are we hearing from public officials there in Idaho about what's going on?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Omar, this is what we know at this hour. According to Kootenai County Sheriff Robert Norris, whom we just heard. I wanted to add more to what he just had to say a moment ago.

There's at least one active shooter, Omar, who has been firing at law enforcement for several hours now. The sheriff also confirmed that two people believed to be fire personnel were fatally shot and several others injured while responding to a brush fire in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

The attack is taking place in specifically the Canfield Mountain natural area. This is a 24-acre park on the east side of the city with heavy tree cover. And Sheriff Robert Norris also said that the number of shooters in Sunday's attack is unclear.

Now, law enforcement have been told, and we just heard the sheriff say it, that if they get the shot, they should take the shot and neutralize the threat. Officers are reporting bullets.

[21:05:00]

Let's imagine this, Omar, coming from multiple directions. And the sheriff said, quote, we don't know if there's one, two, three or four shooters. That's what he said just a moment ago.

In addition to multiple local and state law enforcement agencies, the FBI is also sending assets to provide tactical and operational support to the active situation. We just heard it a moment ago from FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino, who said that earlier on, a spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security said Secretary Kristi Noem is actively monitoring the situation in Coeur d'Alene.

In the last hour, Idaho Governor Brad Little issued a statement confirming the news. He said that multiple heroic firefighters were attacked today while responding to a fire in north Idaho.

The governor called the shooting a heinous direct assault on our brave firefighters while asking all people from Idaho to pray for them and their families as officials wait to learn more from law enforcement at the scene.

The shooting happened, as we have mentioned before, Omar, in Coeur d'Alene, a town of less than 60,000 people. This is in northwestern Idaho, near the border with Washington state. In fact, it's located only 34 miles east of Spokane. Omar, now back to you.

JIMENEZ: All right, Rafael, thank you. Joining me now is former Washington D.C. Police Chief Charles Ramsey and former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe. We're just hearing right now from the Seattle office of the ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, that special agents and certified fire investigators from the Spokane, Portland and Seattle offices are responding to the scene in Coeur d'Alene to provide support.

Chief Ramsey, I just want to start with you maybe stating the obvious here, but how dangerous is this situation right now for the first responders? What kind of factors are they taking into consideration as they prep, how they will be responding?

CHARLES RAMSEY, FORMER WASHINGTON D.C. POLICE CHIEF: Well, I mean, it's incredibly dangerous. It's the worst case scenario that you have an individual or individuals who have already shot and wounded and killed first responders, firefighters, in this case, continuing to shoot based on what we're hearing from the sheriff there, shots coming from multiple directions.

The one thing he didn't say was whether or not that fire is coming simultaneously. Or is this a situation where you've got one individual changing locations and taking shots? I'm not really clear, but it does sound like it, perhaps more than one shooter, which makes it unusual in and of itself.

You know, a lot of times you handle a lot of these things, unfortunately, and active shooters, usually one individual, rarely more than that. But anyway, this is incredibly dangerous for everyone. They've got the advantage. The bad guy's got the advantage.

I mean, they're there, they're hidden, they're already -- they have apparently a high powered sniper type rifle. So it's going to be very, very difficult for law enforcement to be able to get close to this individual. But that's exactly what they're trying to do now. Set up a perimeter, figure out the best way to try to isolate this individual.

I noticed the one helicopter you've shown a couple times from Homeland Security has a thermal imaging device attached to it. That will help in terms of being able to identify where a person is, even though it won't tell you if it's the shooter or a hiker who happened to get stranded. But at least it gives you some indication of an area of concern that needs to be checked out.

So this is a very dangerous situation and it's going to take some time, perhaps, hopefully not, but perhaps before they're able to actually get this person.

JIMENEZ: Andy McCabe, former FBI deputy Director I want to bring you in as well because as we've heard from Dan Bongino, the current Deputy Director, that the FBI is sending in tactical and operational support. We also just read that statement from the ATF as well, that they are sending in support from multiple field offices, it sounds like in the area.

What kind of tactical and operational support do these federal agencies bring to an operation like this?

ANDREW MCCABE, FROMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: Sure. So of course there's just the basics of manpower and in terms of the FBI assets in the area, there is actually an FBI field, not a field office, but a sub office in Coeur d'Alene. The field office that's responsible for this for Idaho is Salt Lake City. So there are more resources there that I'm sure are on their way.

And then of course, you have the full scope of resources that are available that can be dispatched from headquarters. And the most significant of which is the FBI Hostage Rescue Team.

[21:10:00]

So hostage rescue team operators are trained to operate environments like this. You have numerous snipers on those teams, men who are trained and prepared to deal with the challenges of the environment, of the, you know, the altitude, the wilderness, the remote and kind of austere environment.

They have the optics to be able to conduct what sniper teams do. I know from my own experience as a sniper on the New York City SWAT team years ago, part of the reason you deploy sniper teams as a law enforcement entity is to essentially conduct surveillance you want to have. They're usually two man teams that take positions. In this case would be in the woods, getting closer and closer to those areas that Chief Ramsey was talking about.

Places where maybe heat signatures from helicopters have indicated. You have, you know, an individual or a grouping of individuals. Sniper teams can get into those places very quietly, very stealthily. They have the optics to support sniper shots, and so those optics can also help you identify and locate individuals.

So, you know, you'd think that at this point, when you have public safety officers literally under fire, as we sit here and discuss it, I can assure you that there's nothing that the FBI has in its arsenal that would not be available to their colleagues in Idaho right now.

JIMENEZ: And just for both of you, we just got in this dispatch audio from one of the firefighters that I think gives us some insight into sort of how this unfolded in those opening moments. I just want to play it, and we'll talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Send law enforcement right now, there's an active shooter zone. They're shot. BC three is down. BC one is down. Everybody's shot up here. Law enforcement, code three now here. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's an upper parking lot. This is out upper parking lot up on the dirt parking lot. We need law enforcement up here immediately. Law enforcement up here immediately. We've got two unresponsive battalion chiefs. Gunshot wounds, multiple gunshot wounds. Two Coeur d'Alene firefighters are down.

We need law enforcement get up here. We could possibly get two. The two wounded out. I'm pinned down behind battalion one's rig. It's clear to me that this fire was set intentionally to draw us in.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: All right, so there's a lot there in that dispatch audio. Again, even in just the opening moments that it sounded like after two of their battalion chiefs were shot -- gunshot wounds, that they started to figure out what the situation actually was here. But, chief, what stood out to you from that call?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, it was a couple things. I mean, first of all, this was clearly an ambush. It was a setup. I mean, the brush fire and so forth, to draw the first responders in. And immediately they came under fire. Unfortunately, the two battalion chiefs were hit. It sounds that may be the people who are deceased.

You had two others that were wounded, but it's not clear whether or not they were able to get them out of harm's way because of the shooting that was taking place at the time, based on what the sheriff was saying earlier. So that sounds like at least four that we know have been shot, possibly more. But, you know, it's hard to listen to things like that. But unfortunately, I've heard tapes like that before.

JIMENEZ: Yes, yes. And we're still trying to go through the initial details, whether the two killed or the two referenced here, whether they were the ones wounded that later succumbed to their injuries. We're still trying to piece through everything right now.

And, you know, Andy, I want to pick up on what we heard at the end there, where the firefighter said the fire appeared to be intentional to draw in firefighters. I mean, what types of clues do you think would have prompted someone in the moment to be able to make that sort of determination? And is that something that the FBI or local law enforcement would use to try and figure out what happened here?

MCCABE: You know, Omar, it's really hard to say. And of course, that firefighter who is radioing in that, making those comments, I'm like, I'm so impressed by the way that they are able to kind of keep their cool under an unbelievably intense and terrifying situation. They're identifying casualties. They are reporting about their ability to evacuate eight individuals. Maybe the casualties, maybe some other people were not sure.

He's able to identify his own location. Literally pinned down behind a rig, which, of course, is the fire truck. Can't get out from behind that thing because bullets are literally coming in. Right.

[21:15:05]

So despite the chaos and the terror of that, I think, you know, it's remarkable that man was able to put out a lot of really relevant and important information. As for what he was basing the conclusion that it was intentionally set, that's hard to say. It certainly seems like a strong possibility, as Chief Ramsey was saying.

But ultimately what investigators will rely upon is the same sort of kind of post fire investigation that we see in arson cases and things like that. They're going to be looking for evidence that this fire was intentionally set.

And if it was set to draw in a firefighter response for the purpose of waging this attack, they are likely going to find evidence of that in terms of the mechanics of where the fire started, how it started, whether there was an accelerant that was used, what the initiation device might have been. Typically arsonists, people who set fires intentionally leave behind really characteristic clues of that nature.

So, ultimately we'll get better clarity on whether or not this was an intentionally set fire. But I would say that's certainly high up on the list of possibilities right now.

JIMENEZ: And it's a fire that continues to burn right now as we understand that fire personnel are not able to continue those firefighting efforts as law enforcement try to secure the scene and as we understand the priority to be finding whoever or however many people are shooting or have been shooting at law enforcement and fire officials. And as we heard from the sheriff, to neutralize those shooters.

We're continuing to follow these details. A lot coming in. Some we're trying to confirm, we're getting clues as we heard from a little bit of that dispatch audio just a few moments ago. As we understand from law enforcement, this shooter or shooters are using high powered rifles and that law enforcement are taking active sniper fire in trying to secure the scene. Multiple law enforcement agencies already responding.

We've got an indication of already those locally on the scene, but we got indications from the FBI, the ATF as well as we get a sense for how large the response is to try to get a handle on what has been a very quickly developing situation.

We're going to follow the details. We're going to bring them to you as we have them. We're going to squeeze in a quick break and we'll get you more in our breaking news here. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:21:10]

JIMENEZ: Welcome back, everyone, to our breaking news. Moments ago, that's what you're seeing, what appears to be a command center or staging area at the very least for law enforcement as they respond to what is an active shooting in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. This is near the border with Washington in the western part of the state of Idaho, where local authorities say at least two people have been killed, with an unknown number of others shot and an unknown number of shooters still actively firing.

Joining us now is former FBI agent and veteran firefighter Jason Pack. Jason, thanks for being here. You know, your experience here is uniquely appropriate because here we have these firefighters that are doing what they're supposed to do, battling this brush fire here and then come under attack as we understand from law enforcement.

Can you just -- from a firefighter's perspective, what is the risk assessment in a situation where you're already facing risk in the sense of a fire?

JASON PACK, FORMER FBI AGENT: Well, Omar, I don't know if you've been around fire stations, particularly on a Sunday afternoon. It's a pretty chill environment there. I grew up in the firehouse. My dad was a career firefighter. And I left to be an FBI agent for 21 years, but still run calls here in Knoxville today.

So the firefighters, you know, they're likely sizing up the call. It's a brush fire, 1:41 in the afternoon. They probably just finished lunch and they're headed up. It sounded like three engines were headed up to the scene. You're sizing up the situation, trying to figure out your resources, your manpower, those types of things. And then you pull up and you start taking live gunfire. And it's just got to be surreal. I can't imagine what they were feeling or what they were going through and just listening to the audio from the firefighter.

The radio traffic there was talking about his two colleagues, likely with whom he had just been earlier that morning since the start of the shift at the fire station, before these last tones went off to a situation where we're in the middle of an international incident now. It's just surreal out there and certainly our hearts and definitely the prayers with the Coeur d'Alene and the Kosovo County Fire Rescue departments tonight.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, you're correct to point out, I mean, listening to that dispatch audio and hearing just the urgency in that voice, likely, I mean, processing in real time what was happening in front of them in your time or even your family's time, as it sounds, fighting fires.

How common was it to get out to a scene and realize, oh, we actually need law enforcement help because of a safety issue that is not the fire.

PACK: Well, EMS, you know, most fire departments run mostly EMS calls now. So there's a thing where you stage and make sure the scene is safe while law enforcement is in there, making sure that, you know, their partners at the fire department are safe.

So it happens from time to time, mostly in more urban areas, not necessarily this rural area is very unusual. Very unusual. And from the sounds of it sounds like the fire was intentionally set, which would be a clue for the profilers and the investigators trying to figure out why would someone would do this. Did they know the firefighters? Did they have a vendetta against the firefighters? Were they suffering a mental health issue or a combination of some of that? All those questions are for much later now.

The tactical containment of the law enforcement agencies and the safety of everyone else on that mountain is priority.

JIMENEZ: Yes, we sort of know exactly how this fire was set, but we do know the firefighters were there for a brush fire, fighting it at the time that these shots started going off. And then I guess now -- let's talk about the setting a little bit, because it's in a wooded area as we understand.

[21:25:00]

It also at the very least hills, hiking trail. I just wonder what you see as the unique challenges in dealing with an active shooter in a situation like this that maybe you wouldn't have in more of a city environment.

PACK: Well, one thing the fire does is provide cover for the suspect, the shooter or shooters, depending on how many they are, that's going to obscure the helicopter you're seeing there and the pictures from seeing through a little bit to the ground. But I mean they do have the technologically capabilities there to see through smoke.

But it's still going to obscure the vision of the pilots and those coming up on the ground. The shooter has high ground. That's never where you want to be if you're in a shootout, particularly with people who have rifles.

Another thing that also adds to the complication too is there -- you don't know how many people are still up on the mountain. If there could be other injuries up there. Hopefully the shelter in place, order was heated.

It's hard to get information out around the rural areas like that too. A lot of people are not by their phones. They're out on Sundays outside out of doors. Idaho, known for its beauty and picturesque landscapes there. So people are out enjoying that in the middle of the afternoon and maybe not knowing what's going on. So all of this just kind of a surreal moment this afternoon in Idaho.

JIMENEZ: And I know you're a veteran FBI agent as well. We talked a little bit about the FBI supporting local law enforcement here. What is the priority for agents that might be arriving on the scene now in that supplemental role?

PACK: The priority is to be a good partner for the state and locals. So a lot of people think the FBI comes in and takes over. Not the case at all. As your other guests have mentioned tonight, the Coeur d'Alene resident agency or satellite office the FBI has there. They have an office in Spokane just across the line.

So between them, the ATF, the marshals, pretty much everybody with a badge and a gun who can help is headed that way. And it doesn't matter what badge you wear, it matters about the safety of the community and getting the person or people who are responsible for this into custody as quickly as possible.

JIMENEZ: Jason Pack, former FBI agent, veteran firefighter really appreciate the time and perspective as it is a multiagency response to try to locate the shooter or shooters in what has been a rapidly evolving situation that we're continuing to follow the details by the minute.

But the priority right now, as we have heard from law enforcement is to neutralize the shooter. That is what they are working on right now as they work to secure the scene. We know at least two have been killed already. And we will continue to follow these developments. We're going to squeeze in a quick break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:31:24]

JIMENEZ: All right, everybody, welcome back. We are following breaking news out of Idaho where multiple law enforcement agencies are responding an active shooting situation as firefighters were responding to a fire.

We're getting new information from the International Association of Firefighters that we're going to get to in just a moment. But as we understand, two firefighters killed and more being treated for what happened in this shooting that took place this afternoon.

This is taking place in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho's northwest region near the Washington state border. That fire still active as police work to stop the quote, rapid fire shooting. The sheriff's deputy spoke to reporters just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORRIS: Stay away from the area. This is going to be. If these individuals are not neutralized quickly, this is going to be a likely a multiday operation. It's going to be the tough next couple hours. Yes, absolutely. I'm hoping that somebody has a clear shot and is able to neutralize because they are not at this point in time showing any evidence of wanting to surrender. So as soon as somebody has a clear shot, I encourage them to take that shot and neutralize the threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And that's the sheriff there. The FBI, ATF and investigators from surrounding cities are now helping with the investigation. This statement from the ATF Seattle Office. CNN's Rafael Romo is tracking all of this and joins us live with more details. And Rafael, we're getting new details about some of the people who were shot here from the International Association of Firefighters. What are we learning?

ROMO: Yes, that's right, Omar. We just received a statement from the International Association of Firefighters confirming that some of the details about this developing situation. The statement says that, quote, while responding to a fire earlier today in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, IAFF members were ambushed in a heinous act of violence. Two of our brothers were killed by a sniper, it says, and a third brother remains in surgery. That's what the statement says. Please keep them, their families and law enforcement in your prayers.

It is, of course, Omar, a very challenging situation for law enforcement because there's at least one active shooter. But there could be more shooting at law enforcement, at police and officials, and they say the shots are coming from multiple directions. This happened at 1:21 p.m. local time. Emergency personnel received reports of a brush fire on the east side of Canfield Mountain according to Kootenai County Sheriff Robert Norris.

At 2:00 p.m., the Kootenai County Sheriff's Office received reports that first responders were taking gunfire. How are law enforcement agencies responding to the situation? Well, in addition to local law enforcement personnel, we now know the FBI is also sending assets to provide tactical and operational support to the active situation.

And, Omar, the ATF just announced that special agents and certified fire investigators from the Spokane, Portland and Seattle offices are responding to the scene in Coeur d'Alene to provide support. A spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security said Secretary Kristi Noem is actively monitoring the situation in Coeur d'Alene.

And all of this is happening when we have people in the area who are potentially at risk right now.

[21:35:05]

And the fire that was originally ignited earlier today is still burning because, of course, authorities have to neutralize the threat first. A local resident told us last hour, Omar, that this is a tree covered area with a lot of underbrush and that it's very thick and very dry. And because of the nature of the terrain, there could be many places where the suspect was or suspects may be hiding. There are logging roads that go 30 to 50 miles into towns deep in the forest. So you can imagine, Omar, how hard it is for law enforcement right now.

JIMENEZ: An ongoing developing situation. Rafael Romo, really appreciate the reporting. I want to bring back in former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe here. Andrew, I want to ask you about something specific here. We're still trying to figure out, obviously, you know, what may have prompted the shooting. Still very much an active scene.

But this area of the country, northern Idaho, has had a long and deep streak of anti-government activism at various points. And again, we're not saying that has anything to do with this as we try to figure out what actually happened here. But when a region might have that type of history, does it change how law enforcement may approach a situation like this, given the context of the area?

MCCABE: Well, I hope so, Omar. And I, you know, I'm confident that it does. I mean, law enforcement officers in the area are very familiar with the history of prior incidents, just like they would be in any part of the country that has had a history of a particular sort of kind of interaction or incidents or attacks. And those things help to shape hopefully how the response looks to a situation like this.

And to be clear, we don't know what the motive is here, why this person is shooting at firemen, whether there's any sort of connection to prior activity or anything like that. But there's no question that this law enforcement community understands and likely many of these folks have been around and serving during the times when some of these prior incidents have happened.

You know, things, these kind of anti-government standoffs like the one at the Malheur Reserve in Oregon back in 2016. Prior to that, of course, you had the standoff at the Bunny Ranch in Nevada in, I think, 2014, you know, and you can go back further than that. So there's no question that they're in the western part of the country. There have been sporadically over the years incidents where people have reacted violently to the presence of law enforcement.

And again, whether or not, we don't know that's what's happening here. But I would expect that history is certainly hovering in the minds of the law enforcement officials that are trying to figure out the best way forward tactically and operationally in this situation.

Not so much the men that are grabbing rifles and heading into the woods to check out a cave or someplace where they think somebody's been spotted, but certainly the leaders that are directing the operation.

JIMENEZ: And there was, as you were naming them, a deadly 1992 standoff at Ruby Ridge. That's actually not too far north in Idaho from where this is unfolding. But as you have emphasized, we do not know whether any of that has anything to do with this situation. But it is helpful to figure out what law enforcement might be thinking of as they respond to this scene.

And, Andy, look, you've talked about, sure, that might not be on the minds of the folks that are grabbing rifles and headed to the scene. So let's talk about those folks right now. We've talked about the terrain. It's a wooded area. You still got a lot of daylight. But daylight, obviously, you lose it by the minute, by the hour here.

How does the calculation change now that we are essentially hours into this situation right now, as opposed to just minutes?

MCCABE: Yes. So this law enforcement response, which is enormous. Right. You've got, like, as I think Jason Pack said previously, everybody who's got a badge or a gun is showing up there to try to help, which can sometimes actually create problems for administering how that should happen. But nevertheless, it's a huge group of people from across the spectrum.

Typically, in situations like this, law enforcement revolves relies on what we call the incident command system, where the state and local authorities will designate someone who's in charge of this situation and everybody else shows up at that staging area that you're showing there in the video right now. And to get discrete assignments as to what to do.

You know, you got to remember many of these folks, they might know the people who are pinned down up on that mountain right now.

[21:40:03]

They might know the people who are thought to be casualties of this attack. So it's a very, you know, it's an intense response by the community. And everybody there wants to help in whatever way they can, whether that puts themselves in danger or not. You put those thoughts aside, you get the equipment you think you're going to need and you tuck in for the long haul.

JIMENEZ: And as we await further updates, we're just checking the time. Sunset is in about two hours. And again, a lot can happen in two hours, as you, Andy McCabe, have pointed out, the enormous law enforcement presence that we're seeing on the scene across a number of agencies, state, local and federal. Andy McCabe, really appreciate the time and perspective.

For everyone else, again, we are following this breaking news. At least two killed as we heard from the International Association of Firefighters, a third being treated through surgery for injuries. A lot of details coming in. We are trying to track when a next press conference will come, so we'll try to track down that timing. For now, we're going to squeeze in a break. See on the other side. More details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIMENEZ: Welcome back everyone. Tonight, breaking news out of Idaho that we've been following. Law enforcement battling an active shooter situation in the northwest part of the state near the Idaho Washington border.

[21:45:00]

The situation unfolded when first responders were on the scene of a fire. Two firefighters fatally shot by a sniper. Another remains in surgery according to the International Association of Firefighters. The local county sheriff says the shooter or shooters are using modern day sporting rifles.

At the moment, multiple agencies are responding to the scene including the FBI and the ATF. Former Washington D.C. Police chief and CNN senior law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey joins me now.

So Chief Ramsey, I mean you've been with me on this since we first learned the details of this situation. It's now been hours since the initial reported calls of shots being fired took place.

How is law enforcement likely one approaching the situation, but how is their approach likely changed since those initial calls came in?

RAMSEY: Well, they certainly have more resources available to them now. I mean, the shot you're looking at now, it looks to me like that's the command post where you have officers report they'll get an assignment. That assignment could be to be part of a group that's going to form a perimeter. It could be to relieve officers that are already out there in the field. But that's a central location where they're given instruction.

So now that they have more assets, the question now is to try to locate the position of the individual or individuals who are doing this. I would imagine they have more information, but we haven't had an updated press briefing yet. And so they're doing everything they possibly can to try to pinpoint the location of the people who are responsible for this.

At the same time, they're probably no doubt looking to see if they can get hikers who may still be on the mountain, off the mountain and to safety. They also have to be very careful to make sure that you don't have a situation where a sniper, you know, drops the rifle and comes down the hill pretending to be a hiker. So they'll have to check out individuals as they come off the hill to make sure that's not an issue.

But they're getting all their assets in place. You mentioned earlier about, you know, darkness coming in a few hours and so they have to have specific plans on what are they going to do to lock down the area overnight. They don't know if this individual has night vision equipment.

Certainly law enforcement will have night vision equipment, but you don't know exactly what this person has at their disposal. Obviously they have a rifle, no doubt with a scope, a lot of ammunition. And they've already demonstrated they're not afraid to shoot at first responders.

JIMENEZ: And as we understand from law enforcement, we are expecting the next press conference to happen around 12:30 Eastern Time, 9:30 local. What's interesting about that is obviously we're waiting to see if we get any more additional details, but also that would be after local sunset time there in Idaho, which is likely a new period of evaluation for how they're going to approach this moving forward.

I want to play just a little bit of audio from the local sheriff who is laying out a little bit of the timeline over how this unfolded. Take a quick listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORRIS: So at approximately 1:21 p.m. this afternoon, we received reports of a fire on the east side of Canfield Mountain. Fire assets responded to the scene and at approximately 2:00 p.m. this afternoon it was reported that firefighters were receiving shots fired at them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: So again now it's been hours since those first shots unfolded. Assuming that at this next press conference we are now entering nightfall, how does the law enforcement approach change then?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, hopefully we have more information in terms of the number of shooters if they've been able to try to pinpoint a location. Do we have more victims? Have they been able to get anyone who was wounded off the mountain to a hospital? We know at least one person is in surgery now as we speak. Are there others?

So there should be more information that really comes out. They're not going to put too much out in terms of whatever tactics they're going to be using. You know, bad guys listen to and watch TV and listen to radio as well. So you have to be very careful about what you put out publicly.

But there's absolutely no doubt that they've got a solid tactical plan to try to contain an individual to keep them from going beyond where they believe they are right now. But it's going to be very difficult to establish any kind of tight perimeter under those circumstances with the kind of terrain you're talking about now.

[21:50:00]

JIMENEZ: Yes. Chief Ramsey, really appreciate the time and insight as always as we continue to follow this quickly developing situation. As I mentioned, we are awaiting a press conference that will come as it's scheduled on the other side of sunset there in Idaho. We're going to squeeze in a quick break and we'll bring you some more details on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIMENEZ: Welcome back, everyone. We're continuing to follow the breaking news out of Idaho. I just want to paint a picture of the terrain that these law enforcement officers are now dealing with and that these firefighters have been dealing with.

This is unfolding in the Canfield Mountain natural area. It's a 24- acre park here that they're dealing with on the east side of Coeur d'Alene in northern Idaho. There are over 25 miles of trails in the park here. So that is what law enforcement is dealing with here and trying to find where a shooter or shooters are at this moment.

I want to bring in former FBI agent and veteran firefighter Jason Pack. So, Jason, can you just speak a little bit more to the terrain that we're dealing with here and how that impacts how law enforcement may be trying to respond?

[21:55:00]

PACK: Yes, Omar, that complicates things. Generally when, you know, you roll up into an active shooter and it's an urban environment, you drive up there in more rural areas like this, it becomes increasingly difficult to do a neighborhood canvas or just to gain a perimeter because of the steep terrain that's in this area.

The FBI, I know the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team is no stranger to this area. I was on a scene in Cascade, Idaho about 10 years ago when they kidnapped a person out of California, was rescued by the hostage rescue team in Cascades, Idaho. They were inserted in a helicopter and then hiked 3 1/2 miles up a 45 degree angle in order to reach the victim and set up a perimeter at a nearby lake.

JIMENEZ: Oh, Jason Pack, I think we lost some of your audio there, but as he was talking. Oh, we got you back. Sorry. Continue with what you were saying.

PACK: Yes, I was just going to say the terrain is tough and the hostage rescue team is no stranger to the area, having hiked in three and a half miles in order to save that person about 10 years ago. So it's much different environment when you're more rural than you are urban.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Jason, really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for being here. Appreciate the time and insight and thank you all for joining me this evening. We are going to continue to follow this breaking news as we understand two have been killed, at least one shooter, but law enforcement is trying to figure out if there are multiple.

And as we heard from the sheriff, the directive is to neutralize the suspect if given the opportunity. CNN's coverage of the situation in Idaho continues after a quick break with Erica Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)