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Two Fatally Show While Responding to Brush Fire in Idaho; Active Shooting Situation in Idaho, Firefighters Ambushed; Marathon Senate Debate Underway on Trump Agenda Bill. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired June 29, 2025 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[22:00:42]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Hello and thank you for joining me this hour. I'm Erica Hill. We are following the breaking news at this hour out of Idaho where an active shooter situation is ongoing after firefighters were attacked while responding to a brush fire in the northwest city of Coeur d'Alene. At least two people who are believed to be fire personnel have been shot and killed.

Authorities say at least one active shooter is continuing to fire at law enforcement using high powered rifles. All of this is happening in the Canfield Mountain natural area. It's a park, a number of hiking and biking trails, some 25 miles of trails in that space, very heavy tree cover, and that fire is still burning. The FBI is sending teams to the area right now though. The local sheriff says he's hoping someone has a clear shot to neutralize the suspect who shows no signs of wanting to surrender.

CNN'S Rafael Romo is following all of this latest developments. And joins us now live with more on what we're learning including some information on those what we're hearing are likely fire personnel who were in fact killed.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Two of them according to an international firefighter's association. I'm going to talk about the statement that they sent us earlier but first I want to set the scene, Erica. The shooting happened then Coeur d'Alene a town of less than 60,000 and north western Idaho near the border with Washington State in about 34 miles east of Spokane.

According to Kootenai County Sheriff Robert Norris, at 1.21 p.m. local time, emergency personnel received reports of a brush fire on the east side of Canfield Mountain. At 2 p.m., the Kootenai County Sheriff's Office received reports that first responders were taking gunfire. The sheriff also confirmed that two people believed to be a fire personnel were fatally shot and several others injured while responding to a brush fire in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

The attack is taking place in the Canfield Mountain Natural Area. This is a 24 acre park on the east side of the city with heavy tree cover as you mentioned, Erica. Sheriff Robert Norris also said that the number of shooters in Sunday's attack is unclear. Law enforcement have been told, according to the sheriff, that if they get the shot, they should take that shot and neutralize the threat.

In the last half hour, we received a statement from the International Association of Firefighters confirming some of the details about this developing situation. The statement says that, quote, while responding to a fire earlier today in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, IAFF members were ambushed in a heinous act of violence. Two of our brothers were killed by a sniper and a third brother remains in surgery. The post continues. Please keep them, their families and law enforcement in your prayers.

In addition to local law enforcement personnel, Erica, we now know the FBI is also sending assets to provide tactical and operational support to the active situation. The ATF just announced that special agents and certified fire investigators from the Spokane, Portland and Seattle offices are responding to the scene in Coeur d'Alene to provide support. Erica?

HILL: Rafael, really appreciate the updates. And we'll continue to check in with you of course as there are more developments. Also joining us now Mark Lathrop who's a Coeur d'Alene resident leaving near the area of the shooting. He says law enforcement teams have our set up now a block from his home and his on me -- with me rather on the phone now.

Mark, thanks for joining us. Can you just bring us up to speed? I know you were speaking with my colleague Omar Jimenez in the last hour or so, and I was struck when you told Omar that to this point, despite that being set up so close to your home, you hadn't received a text message or a call. You hadn't been told to shelter in place. In fact, you mentioned there was an Amazon delivery happening across the street. Has any of that changed?

MARK LATHROP, LIVES NEAR IDAHO SHOOTING SITE: Hi, Erica. No, at this point, nothing has changed. The fire's still burning. It hasn't got bigger, which is of the development, and multiple law enforcement helicopters still circling around it. As of this point, we have not been told to evacuate.

Now, we are one ridge over the fire is on east side of Canfield Mountain, we are on the west side.

[22:05:06]

so you could access it through the trail system to where the fire is. And apparently the suspect -- but that's how far away we are, but they are still set up with teams watching the hillside. They look pretty relaxed in my opinion on this side of the hill, so that that makes us feel a little safer at the moment.

HILL: Have you noticed any more, since you first saw them setting up, since you first saw law enforcement arriving, have you seen -- since, you know since you last spoke with CNN, the fact that you're saying they look very relaxed. Have you seen any other reinforcements come in, any other officers arrive or is it seemed to be pretty much the consistent state of affairs, if you will, in terms of the number of law enforcement who are there? LATHROP: As far as our neighborhood that's been consistent. They are staging from our local news reports. They're staging about 10 blocks away from us and at the local high school, which is also some blocks away from us. So I don't think I would have seen those additional units come in.

HILL: We were looking at some of your pictures that you shared with us from earlier. It looks to be -- and even looking at some of the footage from our local affiliates there, it looks to be a beautiful day. This is from what I understand, a very popular area. All these hiking and biking trails. Could you give us a sense of just how busy this area might be on a summer Sunday?

LATHROP: On a Sunday, there would have been multiple hiking groups up there for sure. And the system where the fire was set is more of an off-road vehicle trail, side by sides and motorcycles. I know that the teams that were set up were shooing kids away because they hadn't heard of the situation. And so there would have been a lot of people up there. And obviously with a lot of people, fire start would have been a very normal situation.

HILL: Normal how?

LATHROP: We get a lot of brush fires in Spokane, Coue d'Alene area. Yeah.

HILL: And so in terms of that, if it is something that people are familiar with seeing, they would also, one would imagine, be ready to call. So perhaps not an uncommon call for, you know, to be, if somebody were to pick up 911 and say, oh, hey, there's a fire here, that's something that was regularly responded to. I mean, Is it also something that you're constantly on the lookout to that point, right? And so -- and the reason I ask that question is whether you think people would notice anything is off if this is sort of a regular occurrence in the summer?

LATHROP: Yeah, it would have been very routine call. In fact, they were prepping this area for some underbrush clearing work. So there was flash piles around. So this is pretty consistent with what happens on a June day.

HILL: Yeah. You know, I know when you spoke with Omar a short time ago, you're saying you felt pretty safe at the moment. How are you feeling right now? I mean, the more time that sets in, right, the more time you have to think. Obviously you're seeing the coverage here. How are you feeling in this moment?

LATHROP: It's a little surreal. You know, we're sheltering in place. We're actually, some friends that are even closer, we're feeding their cats. So we had to feed the cats. And I guess we're just going to make dinner now in the middle of an active shooter situation, which is strange to say the least. And frankly, it's bad.

HILL: Yeah, it really is. In a couple hours now, at least until I think I just looked, sunset is just before 9 p.m. local time, it looks like. And the fact that we heard from the sheriff a short time ago, you know, saying that they were being fired upon while responding, that this is still an active shooter situation. Where's your mind go in that moment?

LATHROP: Well, I mean, luckily our neighborhoods pretty tight. We're all kind of aware of the situation and we can get a hold of each other and we can get out really quickly. So that helps calm the situation a bit. I'm watching the helicopter, I'm watching the helicopters right now and knowing they don't have the situation under control is a little concerning. And when nightfall comes, this will get a little interesting, to say the least.

HILL: Yeah. And just walk us through again for folks who are just joining us. When were you first aware of the situation?

[22:10:01]

When did you first realize what was happening?

LATHROP: I got a text from my brother who lives down the street from Maine and he filled me in because he lives next to the fire station that would have been responding to this call. And it was that was about 2:15 so about 40 minutes after the incident started. I was made aware of it and I think I sent it along the fire. You could see from my ring camera. I was actually at work at my winery. So I ran home because my wife was home and didn't have a vehicle to evacuate if that was the case. So we might have spent on the freeway of it on the way home.

HILL: Yeah. And the fact that I know your wife, as I understand it, spends a lot of time hiking in this park, as we were talking about, very popular, especially on a Sunday. I mean, can you take us inside that park a little bit more? Just give us a sense of what it's like. It's fairly large from what I understand, some 25 miles of hiking and biking trails. Is it a place that's easy to get lost in?

LATHROP: It's very steep in spots. There's a lot of switchbacks. I mean, the mountain isn't very tall, I would say, you know, 2,000 feet or so. You know, it's where the cell towers are and such in town. But there's, it's definitely in this area, there's -- it's a pretty tight draw and it's not a good place for this situation as I understand what is happening. There's going to be lots of places for people to hide.

HILL: So lots of places for people to hide, but also a lot of people potentially still there in the park up on that mountain. The sheriff had said, you know, a short time ago and they had that press conference that there were civilians who may be stuck there on the mountain. Is there, in terms of people getting in and out, are there one or two central access points to access these trails or multiple areas, multiple ways that people could enter and leave the park?

LATHROP: There's two main trail heads and so that's the main ways in and out. So it's a pretty, I guess, simple access point. It's not like still wide. Although they have these teams posted every block. I think they're mainly just scoping the hill.

HILL: Sure. Especially if you know, I mean, there's dense brush as underbrushes you noted and obviously large trees, all of that coming into play. Mark, anything in this moment that you're not getting right that you need on a local level as you're trying to just, you know, go through all this information?

LATHROP: Well, I was surprised that we didn't get an actual cell phone notice or any mass communication for the shelter-in-place order. So that was a little surprising. But I think it's just simply because they don't have a lot of details. So it's probably better not to panic people if you don't have to. But I'm pretty sure that at this point, if we get an evacuation order or some more strict shelter-in-place order, that it'll come down the proper channels now that, you know, the situation is obviously getting a lot of attention.

HILL: Sure. Yeah. Unfolding very quickly, as you noted, but in terms of that attention now, we know we have special agents from ATF sessions coming in from Spokane, Portland, Seattle, the FBI as well, dispatching assets. I know you hear the helicopters overhead there. You've got a lot going on. We really do appreciate you taking the time to join us again and we'll continue to check in with you, Mark. Thank you. Stay safe.

LATHROP: Yep. Thank you.

HILL: On state (ph) with us, if you're just joining us here on CNN, our breaking news out of Idaho where two firefighters have been fatally shot after what's been described as them being ambushed by the sheriff. The sheriff saying a short time ago they are still actively taking sniper fire. We'll take a quick break. We'll take you on the other side. Stay with us.

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[22:16:24]

HILL: We are following breaking news out of Idaho at this hour. Police say they're taking active sniper fire from at least one shooter at a park in Coeur d'Alene and that there could actually be more. Police responded there in the park after firefighters were attacked while responding to a brush fire. At least two firefighters -- at least two people were killed. One is in surgery. That's according to a firefighters union.

The shooter or shooters are using, according to the county sheriff, what he referred to as modern day sporting rifles, noting they're high power. We also know that both ATF and FBI agents have been dispatched and should be arriving soon at the scene. All of this unfolding, you're seeing some of the video from earlier here, the first few moments as well captured on the dispatch call. I want to play for you now the audio of that call. Take a listen.

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MAN #1, DISPATCH AUDIO IN IDAHO SHOOTING: Send law enforcement right now, there's an active shooter zone. They're shot. BC three is down. BC one is down. Everybody shot up here. Law enforcement code three now up here. MAN #2, DISPATCH AUDIO IN IDAHO SHOOTING: There's an upper parking lot up on the dirt parking lot. We need law enforcement up here immediately. Law enforcement up here immediately. We've got two unresponsive battalion chiefs, gunshot wounds, multiple gunshot wounds, two Coue d'Alene firefighters are down. We need law enforcement to get up here. We could possibly get the two wounded out. I'm pinned down behind Battalion one's rig. It's clear to me that this fire was set intentionally to draw us in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Chilling there. We believe this fire was set intentionally to draw us in. Jason Pack joins me now. He's a Retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent, also a former firefighter and current force responder. Jason, good to have you with us. I mean, you hear those words, we believe we were lured in. Two battalion chiefs down as we're hearing in that call. Walk us through, as you're hearing those moments, where does your mind go first?

JASON PACK, RETIRED FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: First is just how calm and collected the firefighter was on the radio, which is reflective of training. Just listen to the audio. BC was meaning -- we know means Battalion Chief is pinned down. You hear his breath. He's out of breath. You hear the stress in his voice. But what do you also hear is how can I help my fellow firefighter?

So the Coue d'Alene firefighter and the Kootenai County Fire Rescue folks up there together. They probably know each other, so it's kind of surreal when your brother or your sister goes down beside you. You're thinking I came to fight a fire, not take fire. So what are we going to do now, Erica? So you hear him figure out a way to get his brother out of harm's way.

Going back to something earlier with Omar, he was talking about -- it sounds like they do train for these types of things. You hear these all the first responders fire EMS, police, local state federals, everybody with a badge takes these active shooter trainings and each one has a particular role in this. But what you hear here is his training kicking in in moments of stress.

And so that is the whole reason that firefighters do this training. That's the reason that they go through these things when they think it may never happen to them. And it actually does. You see it kick in here and, you know, we do know that one -- the three is still at a hospital being treated right now.

HILL: It was quite a moment too during a press conference earlier today with the sheriff earlier this evening, I should say, when he said, we're actively taking sniper fire. In that moment, to hear the sheriff say that, you know that is really something, noting if somebody has a clean shot, right, that they're prepared to neutralize the suspect.

[22:20:08]

As we have been talking about this area and just how big it is, how many opportunities there may be to hide somewhere, how dense some of the brush is, how does that complicate matters?

PACK: I think it really complicates it because it's not as simple as knocking on a door and searching a home or a bedroom or an attic. You have entire mountainsides and trails and all kinds of terrain issues up there. Whether people have little shelters up there or they know the back ways in and out of places. If they're familiar with it, we don't know any of this, but these are obviously questions investigators will be answering.

I will note in the when the press conference, the sheriff did not mince words. There was definitely what he knew, what he didn't knew and when he would get back to you, which in crisis communications as we teach is what you want to tell people. Just what you know what you don't know and when we can expect other answers. So I think now their public information officer and the sheriff and all the parties involved.

You'll see a larger footprint probably at this press conference coming up in just about an hour and a half time where they'll come and just try to give as much updated information as possible. Putting a pin in this knowing that usually this preliminary information that we first hear, Erica, you've covered a bunch of these sometimes it's not as accurate and things change as more facts are facts are learned in the investigation. Right now that initial information appears to be holding up what Sheriff Norris said earlier.

HILL: Yeah, it's such a great point both a that things can and often do change, which is of course important to always remind ourselves, but also the fact that he was so direct. I was noticing that as well. Part of what he said to in addition to the two deaths. He said, two deaths, he noted, unknown casualties, and also that a number of civilians may be stuck on the mountain.

We don't know how many people are up there. This is -- you're not going to be checking in on a Sunday going into these hiking trails. I was speaking with a local resident a short time ago who said there's two main trailheads to get in and out. But as people are coming down, how do you also deal with that situation?

And the reason I ask that is people may be familiar with seeing video from a shooting, for example, perhaps on a campus, at a school and you see people walk out with their hands up, part of that is protocol to make sure that perhaps a suspect, a shooter, is not trying to blend in on the way out. Is there anything different about the way you would handle this situation when you have people coming down off a mountain?

PACK: Erica, I think the tactics are exactly the same. It's just the volume of people they're coming out. You won't have a mad rush, hopefully of as many people as you would coming out of, let's say a school or a shopping mall, something like that. The tactics are exactly the same. You want to stop those folks, interview them, ID them, see what they may have seen or heard along those trails. If they had been up there before, have they seen anybody up there before today? Did the person go scope it out?

These are all questions that behind the scenes, the investigators and the analysts are looking at while the tactical folks try to maintain the perimeter and make sure that no one else is injured. One point of good news, if there is any into this so far, after this initial wave of gunfire, we've yet to hear reports of additional gunfire. So we certainly can thank the Lord for that.

HILL: Yeah, absolutely. Definitely something to be grateful for in this moment. The fire, at least, according to our most recent information is not out. Part of the challenge of responding of course to that fire is the fact that there is this active shooter somewhere, likely, somewhere still on that mountain. Could the fire also help a potential suspect?

PACK: Well, certainly if it burns out his cover and concealment that would be beneficial to law enforcement. Hopefully I know the Idaho Department of Land and the county fire and the city fire folks there do really good with wildland management with the Bureau of Land Management up there. So hopefully there's some fire breaks and they don't threaten individual residences. But conversely, you hope that it does burn off the cover and concealment for the suspect to help law enforcement, particularly if the smoke would ever clear out a little bit there to kind of help obscure his identity or his location. That would definitely be a benefit to law enforcement.

HILL: As we know, the FBI is sending assets, tactical and operational support. You also have ATF special agents coming from Spokane, Portland, and Seattle. What would the roles of each of those agencies be in this moment? And specifically, you know, as retired supervisory special agent for the FBI, how would that work when the FBI arrives on scene?

PACK: Well, Erica, the Coeur d'Alene has a satellite office there. They work with the Coeur d'Alene police and fire folks every day. So there's a handful of agents at the satellite office already on scene.

[22:25:02]

I saw in some of the pictures coming out from your camera folks there and your affiliates. There were FBI agents there. I saw their tactical kit. The ATF same thing.

I was just spoke with someone from the ATF Salt Lake -- I'm sorry with the FBI's Salt Lake City office about 10 minutes ago and she confirmed that the FBI has assets on the ground and supporting local law enforcement and state law enforcement with whatever assets that they may need. ATF same thing. They have great fire investigators there. We work with them closely. I've been on several major crises with the ATF. They work hand in glove together during these types of incidents. And, you know, everybody wants the same thing. Stop the shooting. Make sure everyone is safe as can be and bring those to justice who have perpetrated this crime.

HILL: So the fact too that there is, you know, a satellite office there in Coeur d'Alene as you mentioned for the FBI. You know, we talked about Spokane, Portland, Seattle, so Spokane is only 30 some odd miles away. The fact that you can also get all of these folks here so quickly, that's going to be incredibly important in this moment. PACK: Yeah, absolutely. And similar with the state law enforcement there in Idaho, probably the Washington State Patrol, all the folks around that are close by are coming to help. And so they'll go to where you're looking at now. You see the trailer rolling in, probably has some pop up tents in them like you see behind to kind of get this kind of tent city, joint information and joint operations center together. That way you'll have boots on the ground to coordinate roles of different agencies so that there's no blue on blue situations.

Something you have to look out for here in these vast operations, particularly in rural areas when people are carrying around high powered rifles. This is sort of similar in an urban environment. You have this many people at the Boston Marathon bombings. You have these people in these higher profile things where they don't really know each other, but they show up to help. And so you just want to make sure that everyone is safe when they do so.

HILL: Yeah, absolutely. And that the coordination is there. Jason, really appreciate your insight, your expertise. We're going to be continuing to call on you, of course. Thank you.

PACK: Thanks, Erica.

HILL: And our breaking news coverage continues the situation unfolding there in Idaho, where as far as we know, this active shooter situation. This is still ongoing after firefighters were apparently ambushed when responding to a call for a brush fire. We are expecting an updated -- some updated information at a press conference a short time from now. Stay with us. We have the very latest for you on the other side of a quick break.

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[22:32:15]

HILL: Thanks for joining us this evening. I'm Erica Hill in New York. Our breaking news at this hour, police responding to an active shooter situation in Idaho in Coeur d'Alene. Authorities say firefighters were attacked when responding to a brush fire at a park there. The International Association of Firefighters says two of its members were shot and killed. A third is in surgery.

Sheriff's deputies say they are actively -- they had been actively taking sniper fire. Police unsure right now whether there could be more than one shooter and they also warned there could be a number of civilians in that park on the mountain. The fire meantime also continues to burn. We know ATF and FBI agents have been dispatched to the scene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF ROBERT "BOB" NORRIS, KOOTENAI COUNTY, IDAHO: We are actively taking sniper fire as we speak. This is an active situation. We have multiple agencies that are on scene from local and federal authorities. And we are prepared t neutralize this suspect who is currently actively shooting at public safety personnel. We are prepared to neutralize this suspect as quickly as possible.

We don't know how many casualties that there are. I suspect we'll have a people coming forward that maybe are stuck up there that drove themselves to the hospital, but I suspect that would likely be the case. I would encourage all of you to tell people to stay away from the area. Do not come to the area. Stay away from the area.

This is going to be, if these individuals are not neutralized quickly, this is going to be a likely a multi-day operation. It's going to be the tough next couple hours. Yeah, absolutely. I'm hoping that somebody has a clear shot and is able to neutralize, because they are not, at this point in time, showing any evidence of wanting to surrender. So as soon as somebody has a clear shot, I encourage them to take that shot and neutralize the threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So the county sheriff there, just a short time ago in their first press conference. CNN's Rafael Romo has been following all of the developments for us and joins us now live with the very latest. Where do you think stand at this hour?

ROMO: Well, Erica, I want to help our viewers get a better understanding of where this is happening and how not only law enforcement but also civilians may be at risk. The shooting is unfolding in the Canfield Mountain Natural Area. This is a 24 acre park on the east side of Coeur d'Alene in northern Idaho. It's a popular park and destination, Erica, because it features hiking and biking trails.

[22:35:03]

An important detail is that images of the location show a mountain covered in dense forest. That means that there are many hiding places for a shooter or shooters. We heard earlier from Kootenai County Sheriff Robert Norris that law enforcement at the scene were reporting fire coming from multiple directions.

Earlier we heard a number of very chilling details from Sheriff Norris including that there's an unknown number of casualties. And the law enforcement is taking sniper fire, calling what's happening an active situation. Sheriff Norris also said that they don't know how many shooters there are, if it's only one or several, but he did say that it appears that the perpetrator or perpetrators are using high-power rifles and the officers are taking rapid fire.

About three hours ago, Idaho Governor Brad Little issued a statement confirming the news. He said that multiple heroic firefighters were attacked today while responding to a fire in North Idaho. The governor called the shooting a heinous direct assault on our brave firefighters while asking all people from Idaho to pray for them and their families as officials' way to learn more, Erica, from law enforcement at this scene. Now back to you.

HILL: Rafael, really appreciate it. Thank you. As this, course, is unfolding in Idaho, we're also closely following the breaking news out of Washington, D.C., where that marathon debate on President Trump's sweeping domestic policy bill is now under way in the Senate. Republican leaders are pushing to get a final version of this bill, of course, passed by July 4th. That is the self-imposed deadline from President Trump. They're hoping, for stronger support from their Republican holdouts. He still wants some changes.

Late Saturday night, Senate Republicans cleared their first big hurdle, though, in a dramatic procedural vote. That one just squeaking through, 51 to 49. That means two Republican senators voted no, including Tom Tillis. And then he announced on Sunday he would not seek reelection, which President Trump called, quote, great news.

A number of Republicans have raised concerns about the bill's spending levels. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the Senate version of the package would cost far more than the House-approved bill adding more than $3 trillion to the deficit. For more on what comes next here, here's Julia Benbrook in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN NEWSOURCE CORRESPONDENT: Over the weekend, Senate Republicans took a major step toward passing President Donald Trump's massive agenda package, or the so-called One Big Beautiful Bill. Trump called the procedural vote a great victory, but there are still potential roadblocks ahead. Only two Republican senators, Rand Paul of Kentucky and Tom Tillis of North Carolina voted against advancing this bill. Hours later, Tillis announced that he will not seek re-election.

But there were several other GOP lawmakers who have voiced concerns throughout the process. This is a multi-trillion dollar package that would lower federal taxes, it would boost spending on the military and the border, and downsize some government safety net programs, including Medicaid.

After this procedural vote, Democrats looked to use a delay tactic, forcing the clerks to read the full 940-page bill out loud. This took close to 16 hours. Then they started the formal debate process. After that wraps, we'll see Vote-a-rama, which is an open-ended series of votes on amendments, some of those focusing in on political messaging, while others are more substantial, so we could see more changes. After that, then the Senate looks at final passage.

If they are able to pass it, all eyes then turn to the House, where there will likely be more challenges. House Speaker Mike Johnson was able to narrowly get their version through that chamber just a little while ago, but it was a delicate balance and he has been warning that any major changes could add more complications. Republicans have put together a lofty goal of getting this bill to the President's desk for signature by July 4th. In Washington, Julia Benbrook, CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Well, as the Senate debates this massive piece of legislation, which of course is meant to fund President Trump's domestic agenda, new polling shows how Americans feel about the bill and those numbers not exactly in the President's favor. Harry Enten breaks down how this latest data on President Trump's big beautiful bill plays out.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: As the Senate debates the one big beautiful bill, how do the American people feel about it? Well, data from across the month of June shows that the adjectives that the American people would use to describe it are awful, horrible and to quote Charles Barkley terrible, terrible, terrible.

What are we talking about here? Well, let's take a look at the net favorable ratings of the big beautiful bill. I don't just got one poll for you up here on the screen, I got five and they all tell the same story.

[22:40:01]

Washington Post, look at that, the net favorable rating. Minus 19 points. 19 points underwater.

How about Pew, 20 points underwater. How about Fox News, 21 points underwater. How about Quinnipiac, minus 26 points on the net favorable rating. Holy cow. How about KFF, the worst of the bunch at minus 29 points. But no matter how you look at it, it's terrible from minus 19 points to minus 29 points on the net favorability scale. This isn't one big beautiful bill as the American people are concerned. It's one big bad bill.

Now, here's the question. Obviously, during the month of June, the bill has been debated. The American people have learned more about it. Has that made them change their mind for the better? Take a look here. The change in the net favorability rating of the big beautiful bill according to Quinnipiac University.

Well, look, in early June, it was minus 26 points. How about in late June? The same, minus 26 points. The American people thought that the bill was awful in early June. The same numbers say that it is awful in late June at least on the net favorability scale. Now the question is why? Why do the American people not like this bill? Why is it one of the most unpopular pieces of legislation that I can recall that's on the cusp of potentially going in and becoming law?

Well it all goes down to the argument does the one big beautiful bill actually help your family? How do the American people feel about this? Will Trump's policies and your family help the big beautiful bill? Just 23% of Americans say that the big beautiful bill actually helps their family. Compare that percentage to the hurt. 49%. And this is so much different as how the American people viewed Trump's first term and the policies there and why he was elected back in November.

Look at this, Trump's first term agenda. 44% of Americans thought that his first term agenda helped their family compared to 31% who said hurt. So a much considerably larger proportion of the American public said his first term agenda and helped then hurt their family, which is exact opposite of how they feel about the big beautiful bill with the clear plurality. 26 points more of the American public saying it hurts, then helps their family.

And that, my dear friends, is why this bill is just so unpopular at this point. Historically unpopular, as I said at the beginning, the American people see it as awful, horrible, and terrible, terrible, terrible, to quote Charles Barkley. Back to you.

HILL: Harry Enten, appreciate it. With me now is Larry Sabato, Director for the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. He's also the editor of A Return to Normalcy, the 2020 election that almost broke America. Larry, it's always good to talk to you. I want to pick up, I hope you could hear what my friend Harry Enten was just going through there in terms of some of the polling, the fact that 49% said this bill hurts their family. Just 23% said it helps. Does that have any impact whatsoever on lawmakers in these hours and days that are to follow?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CTR. FOR POLITICS, UNIV, OF VIRGINIA: No, and here's why. They will have to worry about that in the general election, in the midterm elections, assuming they're on the ballot in 2026, because then the entire populace of their district or state will be voting. Of course, they only really have to worry about it if they are in one of the diminishing numbers of competitive House or House districts or states that have Senate races. So most of them won't worry at all.

But they've got a big hurdle before then. They have to get renominated. And that's why the general public opinion doesn't matter to them at all. Only one person. I'm talking about the Republican side because the Democrats are all going to vote against it. The Republicans are concerned about one person, his name is Donald Trump.

Because while he can't guarantee that he can defeat them in a primary for renomination, the odds are pretty good that he will in fact defeat them if he backs a candidate to the hilt. That's what he threatened to do against Thom Tillis, the senator from North Carolina, who basically has been attacked by Trump so many times, he threw up his hands today and said, I'm not running for reelection. I've had enough of this. That's essentially what he said. And who can blame him?

So they're not paying attention to the overall numbers. They will if they're in a competitive district come November 2026. But that doesn't affect most of them. And let's remember. The public doesn't tend to remember things for very long. The rush of events is so great these days that they will have focused on 100 or 300 or a thousand other things between now and then.

HILL: Yes, it is a bit of information overload in 2025. That's for sure. In terms of the impact, though, the way things stand right now, some 12 million people could lose Medicaid. That, right, these are very tangible moments that a number of Americans could begin to feel in short order if this bill should pass. How much of an impact will that have, especially when we're talking about the cuts to social services?

[22:45:05]

SABATO: Yes, if the projections are correct, just about Medicare with 10, 12, 14 million people being knocked off their healthcare, you better believe that will have an impact. They're going to be very unhappy, very angry.

Now, again, we live in an age of strong party identity, and if they identify with Trump and the Republicans, maybe they'll find some way to blame Democrats. But look at the one breakdown that I think does matter in the polling. It isn't just Democrats who are very unhappy and very opposed to the big bad bill or the big good bill or whatever you want to call it. Its independents. That's been the real change.

Overwhelmingly Democrats are opposed, 90% depending on the poll. Republicans are supportive of this, but not nearly to the degree they usually are. It's about three quarters of Republicans are supportive. Independents have turned not as negative as Democrats, but they sure are closer to Democrats than they are to Republicans. They're very unhappy with what they've heard about this bill.

It's gone on so long, Erica. It reminds me of what a good friend of mine, Otto von Bismarck said in the 19th century. He said, don't ever watch sausages or laws being made. It's just too unappetizing. And people have picked up enough about what's going on so that they know even if they don't get all the details, they really don't like it. And they're probably not going to like it once they learn additional details.

HILL: Yeah, that is for sure. And it's interesting in terms of the way the sausage is getting made. As we know, in general, Congress does not have very high favorability in this country. When we see these sort of -- when we see the Vote-a-rama. When we see the back and forth, when we see this very divisive lawmaking, right, where there is so little bipartisan work, how much harder does that make it for the average American?

SABATO: Well, it makes it harder, fortunately, for most of them, and they're asleep. You know, this Vote-a-rama is going to be going on in the wee hours. If they're --

HILL: we'll be up and watching it, Larry.

SABATO: I know you'll be up and watching and you'll carry some packages tomorrow morning. But what that is really about is each side trying to entrap the other. Think political TV ads, campaign TV ads. Each of those Vote-a-rama votes is one party trying to trap the other party into voting for something that sounds as though the public would support it. And the public would be outraged if they knew that other party was not supporting law enforcement or poor people or whatever the case may be. And that's what it's about. It's about creating TV ads for that campaign of 2026. So they're really thinking ahead.

HILL: (Inaudible).

SABATO: Maybe not -- what?

HILL: Yes. I was going to say, it sounds as if what you're saying here is that what we are seeing in Washington is not about lawmaking, it is not about helping constituents, it is, I hope everyone's sitting down here, it is about finding a way to get reelected.

SABATO: Perish the thought, Erica. Perish the thought.

HILL: I mean --

SABATO: You're being much too cynical. You're being accurate, but also very cynical.

HILL: It's hard not to be both things in this moment. In all seriousness, as we look at this -- and it's such a great point, right? Everyone is very busy. And we know that with so much going on in the world, what really matters is what's happening in an individual home, right? With your family, with those closest around you. What will you be watching for then in the coming days, weeks, as we see how this settles in and how it plays out with Americans?

SABATO: You know, the New York mayor primary, a Democratic primary, you can argue with (inaudible), but it did reveal something important that has continued on from the presidential election. And that is the issue of affordability, whether people can afford to live at a decent level. And if they get their healthcare canceled or if they can't get food benefits and they're starving and their local food bank runs out of food, yeah, that's going to have an impact. And they're going to remember that. And they're probably going to vote on that basis, even if it's months later. They're not going to forget the pain.

HILL: Yeah, it's such an important point. Larry, always great to see you. Appreciate it. Thank you.

SABATO: Thanks, Erica.

HILL: We'll be right back.

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[22:54:00]

HILL: Following the breaking news out of Idaho at this hour where police are still working through an active shooter situation at a park in Coeur d'Alene. So this comes hours after firefighters were called to the park and then attacked while responding to a brush fire there, Canfield Mountain Park. A firefighters union says at least two were killed. One is in surgery. As for the shooter or the shooters, sheriff saying they are using, in his words, modern day sporting rifles, saying they are high powered. Both ATF and FBI agents we've learned have been dispatched to the scene. We'll continue to follow that for you.

Also learning more about the situation in Iran. Despite those U.S. strikes on Iranian nuclear sites, the head of the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog agency says Iran could actually begin enriching uranium again in a matter of months, noting the strikes fell short of destroying Tehran's nuclear program. This, of course, contradicts President Trump's claim that the U.S. set back Iran's nuclear ambitions by decades.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAFAEL GROSSI, IAEA DIRECTOR GENERAL: Frankly speaking, one cannot claim that everything has disappeared and there is nothing there.

[22:55:02]

It is clear that there has been severe damage, but it's not total damage, first of all.

And secondly, Iran has the capacities there, industrial and technological capacities. So if they so wish they will be able to start doing this again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Now Mr. Trump has repeatedly said the U.S. strikes, quote, completely and totally obliterated Tehran's nuclear program.

President Trump also says he's found a buyer now, potential buyer for TikTok, but isn't revealing any names just yet. This, of course, comes months after Congress signed a law requiring ByteDance, TikTok's Chinese parent company, to sell off the social media app or face a ban in the U.S. Speaking with Fox News, the President said he will reveal soon who that buyer is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We have a buyer for TikTok, by the way. I think I'll need probably China approval. I think President Xi will probably do it.

WOMAN #1: Who's buying?

TRUMP: I'll tell you in about two weeks.

WOMAN #1: A big technology company there.

TRUMP: Very, very wealthy people. It's a group of very wealthy people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: President Trump has so far signed three orders to delay the enforcement of that TikTok ban in the United States. The only outage lasted about 14 hours back in January.

Thanks so much for joining me this hour on CNN Newsroom. I'm Erica Hill. Stay tuned. Our breaking news coverage continues right here at the top of the hour.

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