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Iga Swiatek Dominates Wimbledon Final Against American Amanda Anisimova; Judge Orders Trump Administration To Stop Immigration Arrests In Southern California Without Probable Cause; Fed Agents, Protesters Clash In Standoff At CA Cannabis Farms; NYT: FEMA Didn't Answer Thousands Of TX Flood Survivor Calls; Trump Announces New 30 Percent Tariffs Against Mexico, European Union; Ukraine: Russia Launches Second Largest Aerial Assault Since Invasion. Aired 1-2p ET

Aired July 12, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: But Amanda also, you know, is the latest now among high profile athletes, right, to share publicly, you know, that kind of, I need to take a beat and take care of my mental health. She shared that publicly. That is very heroic.

You know, what is this saying about the pressure, managing pressure, overtraining, or competing and finding a winning strategy to stay mentally fit?

CANDY REID, FORMER CNN WORLD SPORT ANCHOR: Well, it's so tough. Fred, you're right. She took a mental health break in 2023, said she was feeling -- starting to feel bad in 2022. And a year later, she said, I just need to call it a break. She went back to college, took about eight months off, became an artist.

Her artwork is just terrific. It's amazing that someone could be so talented in so many different facets. She came back, she's playing better than ever. For a long time, she's had a lot of attention and has been spoken as a major champion. She's got a huge game.

I'm sure if she's not too disappointed by this terrible result --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

REID: -- that there will be better things to come. But it shows you that you can step away and play at the very top of the game. The pressure on tennis players is just relentless. I played up into, you know, top 500 standard in doubles, top 750 in singles and it was hard work. You're traveling all the time. You're never at home.

You lose more than you win. It's really tough. So full credit to her. But unfortunately, the Wimbledon dream turned into a bit of a nightmare for Anisimova.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Well, hopefully, Amanda still feels good. I mean, we're still rooting her on. You never know what's next at the same time, Iga. I mean, yes, she's killer.

Candy Reid --

REID: You bet.

WHITFIELD: -- great to see you. Thank you so much. Appreciate you.

All right, a new CNN original series goes inside the notorious Billionaire Boys Club of the 1980s. On the surface, it was a social and investment club. But in reality, it was filled with greed, fraud and even murder. The shocking story of the Billionaire Boys Club premieres tomorrow, 10:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

All right. Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin this hour with a setback for the Trump administration's immigration crackdown. A federal judge has ordered ICE to stop indiscriminate immigration arrests in Southern California. The judge granted a temporary restraining order late Friday requiring federal authorities to find reasonable suspicion to make migrant arrests in California's central district, which includes Los Angeles.

This latest move comes after weeks of chaotic immigration raids in public and private workplaces in California. On Thursday, protesters clashed with federal immigration agents carrying out raids at two legal marijuana farms.

CNN's Julia Benbrook joins us now with more on this. Julia, what more can you tell us about the ruling and how the administration is reacting now?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, after weeks of those chaotic immigration raids, both in public and at workplaces across Southern California, a judge has granted a temporary restraining order in a lawsuit, requiring federal authorities to find reasonable suspicion to make immigration arrests in California's central district, which includes Los Angeles. Now, the federal judge found that the Department of Homeland Security had been making stops and arrests without probable cause and ordered the department to stop detaining individuals based solely on race, spoken language or occupation.

And we did hear in a recent interview that aired on Fox News just a little while ago from the Acting ICE Director, Todd Lyons, he criticized the judge's order and defended the administration's recent actions. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

TODD LYONS, ACTING DIR., IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT (ICE): ICE has always conducted good criminal and intelligence-based targeted enforcement, and we will continue to do that. We're pretty confident that when the Department of Justice and Department of Homeland Security appeals this, we will win.

But this is just another attempt to stop President Trump from making America safe again and stopping what the American people want. ICE goes out there every day and does a lawful law enforcement mission.

(END VIDEOCLIP) BENBROOK: And I did just hear from a White House spokesperson in a statement who echoed some of those same beliefs, writing, quote, "We expect this gross overstep of judicial authority to be corrected on appeal." Now, all of these recent developments, the judge's order, those recent raids really have put a spotlight once again on a region that has become an epicenter of the Trump administration's sweeping immigration operations.

We do expect to hear more on this specifically, as well as just border security in general. And just a little over an hour now, as DHS Secretary Kristi Noem is expected to hold a press conference.

[13:05:01]

And here's how the department described what we can expect in those remarks. She said that they will focus on exposing the worst of the worst criminal illegal aliens arrested by the department. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, Julia Benbrook, thank you so much. And bring us that pressure and the information from it as soon as you can.

All right, according to the Department of Homeland Security, those two Thursday raids at legal marijuana farms in Southern California ended with ICE agents arresting almost 200 migrants. The United Farm Workers Union says multiple workers were critically injured during the raids.

I'm joined now by Teresa Romero, she is the president of United Farm Workers. Teresa, great to see you. So can you give us more information on the arrest, the injuries, all that took place from the raids?

TERESA ROMERO, PRESIDENT, UNITED FARM WORKERS: You know, it was -- thank you for having me, and I appreciate you bringing attention to this issue. It was a chaotic situation for the last two days in Ventura County. Workers who just got up and went to work that day did not make it home.

And from what the previous segment, when I heard the use of the word targeted, and that is exactly what they're doing. They're not targeting criminals. They're targeting immigrants, brown people, just because the color of their skin, just because of their look. These are hardworking people. And like you said, cannabis in California is legal.

WHITFIELD: Are you able to tell me, Teresa, you know, how people who are working at these farms and others, but particularly at this marijuana, you know, cannabis farm, how, you know, workers are feeling? I mean, on -- without even seeing ICE agents arrive, what they're feeling, and then that in contrast with being confronted by ICE agents at those farms?

ROMERO: I can tell you they're feeling terrified. All throughout California, throughout the agricultural areas in California, farmworkers are going to work every single day, terrified they're not going to make it home. We usually when something like this happens, maybe for one day or two days, they don't show up to work because they're afraid. But at the same time, we need to remember these workers have jobs that most of them is just seasonal, and they have to come back to work so they can support their families.

WHITFIELD: And then what now is your reaction to this judge's ruling, you know, ordering the Trump administration to stop indiscriminate ICE arrests? Do you feel that, you know, there is belief that that will be respected?

ROMERO: We work with ACLU to put this lawsuit together. We were there in court with farmworkers that day when the judge heard the case. The administration has shown that it's not very willing and able to respect the judge's orders in different cases. We're hoping they will, but we will continue to fight either legislatively, in the judicial district, any way we can do to protect farmworkers in this country.

WHITFIELD: Can you kind of paint a picture for people, help folks understand, you know, how these raids have impacted the lives of people on a day-to-day basis, before they even get to work, you know, as they're getting ready to leave home, what arrangements perhaps are even people feeling like they have to make, you know, how it's impacted their routine?

ROMERO: It has been an immense amount of work and pain that these families are going through. Right now, parents go to work. Children stay at home or go to school, afraid that their parents are not going to come home. The communities, they don't go anywhere.

They don't go to the park with the kids. They don't go to the local restaurants. They don't go to the doctors if they need to. They don't go to the school functions with their children. They just go to work and come home.

Kids are telling me -- and I'm talking about U.S. citizen kids that are 7, 8, 9 years old, that they don't want to go to school because they're afraid that mom and dad are not going to be home when they get back. And this is the cruelty that farmworkers who put food on our tables every single day are having to face. These raids need to stop.

They are not accomplishing anything. They're not targeting criminals. They're targeting hardworking people who do a very important job in our country.

WHITFIELD: Teresa, during the raids there at the cannabis farms, the DHS said among those arrested were 10 migrant children rescued, I'm quoting them now, "rescued from potential exploitation, forced labor, and human trafficking."

[13:10:06]

The agency did not provide details on the particular facility or the conditions, you know, of the children. But what's your response and what do you know about that?

ROMERO: You know, they use the word detained children. That should tell you everything. They're not even using the word we rescue children. They detain them. Did they arrest the owner or the employer who was having these children work in the farms? That is a question that I don't know. But my guess is, no, they didn't. We're trying to find where the children are. We're trying to get making sure that they have legal representation and protection because they're not even safe in ICE detention centers.

WHITFIELD: Teresa Romero, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it, and I know we'll be in connection again.

ROMERO: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.

WHITFIELD: Central Texas right now facing new threats of flash flooding from storms this weekend and this comes as hundreds turned out last night in Kerrville, Texas to honor the people killed and those still missing from the deadly flooding.

There's also new reporting today from the New York Times. It says documents reveal FEMA did not answer thousands of calls from flood survivors. The New York Times reporting that the agency struggled to answer calls in a timely manner because it had fired hundreds of contractors at the call centers.

The Times also notes that FEMA faced similar challenges after Hurricane Helene and Milton after it hit the South in 2024. And it says the data shows the agency did not answer nearly half of the 500,000 plus incoming calls over the course of a week.

CNN's Julia Vargas Jones is joining us from Kerrville, Texas. Julia, tell us more about what is happening today.

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we actually just saw, Fred, FEMA's current administrator came into this temporary center here, did not answer any of our questions. But we did pose to him that specific question about the reporting from the New York Times on whether those cuts had impacted on the response.

You know, we did see from the New York Times quoted in that same article response from FEMA. But I did want to go a little deeper. He ignored us, did not answer those. But FEMA spokesperson, quote, let me get to that, "When a natural disaster strikes, phone calls surge and wait times can subsequently increase. Despite that influx, FEMA's disaster call center responded to every caller swiftly and efficiently, ensuring no one was left without assistance."

That, of course, goes against what the New York Times is reporting. They are saying that there is a particular tie in to some contracts that expired on the 5th and were not renewed until four days later, basically six days after that disaster struck here in Kerrville. What we're seeing in the center, this is where people, residents, survivors of this disaster are coming to to request assistance from FEMA, filling out their forms and getting some one-on-one assistance for all of those damages that their insurance companies will not cover.

Now, all of this coming at the same time as we're hearing that local officials here had also warned the Federal Emergency Management Agency back in October of these potential threats from floods, specifically, Fred, in a 200-plus-long page report.

WHITFIELD: Julia Vargas Jones, thank you so much.

All right, President Trump announcing new tariffs against Mexico and the European Union this morning, fueling a wider trade war between the U.S. and its allies. Senior White House Reporter Betsy Klein is joining us now from New Jersey, where the president is spending the weekend.

Betsy, great to see you. So what more can you tell us?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER AND WRITER: Yes, Fredricka. I just want to take a step back here to get to the root of all of this economic uncertainty. You will recall President Trump essentially launched a global trade war back in April when he sent those reciprocal tariffs, reshaping the global economic order and really rocking markets.

He issued a 90-day pause shortly after that amid so much market volatility. That 90-day pause came up this week. The president announced he was extending that deadline to August 1st, allowing a little bit more time. But he was going to start sending out personalized letters to leaders of different U.S. trading partners. And we are seeing that just today, a pair of letters sent to Mexico and the European Union, of course, two of the United States' biggest trading partners, setting a tariff rate of 30 percent for both the E.U. and Mexico.

Now, I want to read to you a little bit from that letter to Mexico's President, Claudia Sheinbaum. The president wrote, quote, "Mexico has been helping me secure the border, but what Mexico has done is not enough." That he went on to say, "There will be no tariff if Mexico or companies within your country, decide to build or manufacture product within the United States."

[13:15:15]

Now, shortly following that letter, a top Mexican economic official said that U.S. and Mexican officials had met on Friday, and the Mexican officials conveyed that that 30 percent tariff marked, quote, "unfair treatment," and that they did not agree. Of course, they did agree to continue to keep negotiating and try to get to a better deal.

Also, on the E.U. side, the European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, she says they are ready to continue working toward an agreement by that August 1st deadline. Of course, all of this contributing to so much mounting uncertainty for investors, consumers, and businesses alike leading up to that August 1st deadline, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Indeed. All right. Betsy Klein, thanks so much, New Jersey.

All right, still ahead, Ukrainian officials say Russia has launched its second largest aerial assault of the country.

Plus, a preliminary report reveals clues to the cause of the deadly Air India plane crash. Investigators finding the engine's fuel supply was cut off moments after takeoff. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:00]

WHITFIELD: Ukrainian officials say Russia has launched its second largest aerial assault since the beginning of its invasion. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Russia launched 26 cruise missiles and 597 drones in an attack. At least two people were reportedly killed and 14 more hurt. This comes as President Trump predicted, quote, "things happening towards Russia" when questioned about the strike of a Ukrainian maternity hospital. Trump also said he will have a major statement to make on Russia Monday.

CNN's Nada Bashir joins us live from London. Nada, good to see you. What can you tell us about this latest attack and President Trump's upcoming statement?

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Fredricka, what we've been seeing over recent days in Ukraine is a real ramping up and intensification of Russia's aerial attacks. As you mentioned, this now marks the second largest aerial attack carried out by Russia since its invasion of Ukraine.

And while the majority of those missiles and drones launched by Russia are said to have been neutralized, according to the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, there were also civilian areas impacted and hit by missiles and drones, including residential buildings. And as you mentioned, at least two people are confirmed to have been killed, more than a dozen others injured.

And again, this is following a series of intense attacks over the last week. And this comes, of course, shortly after the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy confirmed that U.S. deliveries of military support, including weapons, had resumed. This follows that announcement by U.S. President Donald Trump that a decision had been taken to allow for the resumption of those deliveries of U.S. military assistance via NATO.

And this has also been confirmed by the NATO alliance itself, its spokesperson saying that, as part of NATO's continued support for Ukraine's defense, they have taken the decision to procure air defense systems and other weapons from the United States. And President Trump has been clear to really emphasize that these are weapons being paid for by NATO, but supplied by the United States. And, of course, this really comes as we're seeing a shift now in the rhetoric and the relationship between the U.S., between the White House and Russia.

President Trump has hinted towards a statement being made potentially on Monday with regards to Russia. No clear details offered on what we can expect from that statement. But we do know, of course, that the U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio met with his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, last week.

On Thursday, their conversation is said to have been frank, according to the White House. And, of course, what we've also learned is that Russia has offered a new proposal for a pathway to peace, according to U.S. officials. Again, no clear details. We're still waiting to hear more from President Trump and the White House with regards to what further action we might see from the Trump administration with regards to any further steps, any pressure being put potentially on President Putin.

But, clearly, a huge shift when it comes to that U.S. military support for Ukraine, particularly as we continue to see that push, that effort by the Trump administration to bring some sort of peace agreement to Ukraine as soon as possible. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: All right. Nada Bashir in London. Thank you.

All right, still ahead, sources tell CNN Deputy FBI Director Dan Bongino is telling people that he's considering resigning over the Trump administration's handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files. We'll unpack the clash within the Department of Justice next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:29:01]

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. The deputy director of the FBI deciding whether he will leave his post. Dan Bongino did not show up for work on Friday, according to multiple sources. Those sources telling CNN that he has told people that he is considering stepping down amid a major clash between the FBI and the Justice Department over the Jeffrey Epstein case.

And that he reportedly had a heated confrontation with the U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi about her handling of the Epstein case. It all started Monday. That's when the agency denied the government was keeping files about Epstein's so-called client list secret.

The DOJ also claiming that there's no evidence that Epstein was murdered while behind bars. Two conspiracy theories that much of Trump's base had obsessed about and Bongino himself had pushed.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

DAN BONGINO, "THE DAN BONGINO SHOW": The questions surrounding this alleged suicide are numerous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

[13:30:00]

BONGINO: And are worth getting to the bottom of quickly. What the hell are they hiding with Jeffrey Epstein? Why do they want to make this Jeffrey Epstein story go away so bad? I'm not ever going to let this story go because of what I heard from a source about Bill Clinton on a plane with Jeffrey Epstein. I'm not letting it go ever. Ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And Bongino's knows boss, FBI Director Kash Pate, has also accused the DOJ of concealing crucial details about this case. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASH PATEL, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRION OFFICIAL: Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are. We have an election coming up and we need to adjudicate this matter at the polls.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: That was before he became FBI director. And then adding to the suspicion, the DOJ released surveillance video from outside Epstein's jail cell on the day that he died. At one point, that video jumps forward cutting out 60 seconds. Bondi is claiming that in an -- it was an outdated recording system, but that explanation as well as the Justice Department claiming there's nothing else to release is now angering many in the MAGA world who won't take no for an answer. Here are just two of the biggest names.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, CONSERVATIVE TALK SHOW HOST: Like they're not fooling anybody. So, I feel like we're at a dangerous point now.

LAURA LOOMER, FAR-RIGHT ACTIVIST: I mean, look, at the end of the day, we were promised one thing and we have not received that promise. So, I hope that President Trump will fix this by firing Pam Bondi.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And as we know, far-right activists Laura Loomer has a direct line to Trump and she is not letting up on this call for Bondi to be fired. She tweeted Friday, President Trump, please listen to your base. We love you and we are respectfully asking you to fire Pam Bondi.

Well, the knives are clearly out for Bondi, who back in February was suggesting this alleged list of Epstein's powerful friends that had ties to his sorted activities would be released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients? Will that really happen?

PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Bondi has since backtracked and that's not going over well with Trump's top friends at the FBI who before Trump took office had accused the Biden administration of a coverup.

All right. Still ahead, what caused the Air India crash that killed 260 people? A new report is revealing a possible cause.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:35:00]

WHITFIELD: A just published aviation report is revealing what caused the fatal Air India crash last month. The report states that a fuel cutoff switch caused the aircraft to fall from the sky just moments after takeoff. 260 people were killed in that crash. But what we don't know is whether the switch was deployed by a pilot or if this was a computer malfunction. Arunima with CNN affiliate News 18 has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARUNIMA, REPORTER, CNN-NEWS 18: Exactly a month after that unfortunate crash of Air India's aircraft in Ahmedabad, the preliminary report of the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau is out. Two three important takeaways from that report. A, for the first time there is an official estimate being given of the death toll. Other than the 241 crew and passengers on board 19 others have been pronounced dead in this aircraft crash. So, about 260 people have been accounted for after the DNA testing. That's the official estimate.

Now, why did the crash happen is the big question that everyone is asking. Why the AAIB report, it's a 15-page report, they have not reached any conclusion. They have given up enough indication. Unlike what was being expected, this is quite a comprehensive report and it clearly tells us that the fuel switch was in a cutoff position. Because the fuel was cut off, the twin engines lost thrust, they lost power, and that in all possibility led to the crash. This is one point which has been made very clear in the preliminary report. However, the question that remains unanswered is, how was the fuel switch cut off? Who was responsible for it?

So, one thing that the cockpit voice recorder has brought on record, and it has been mentioned in the a AAIB report, is the conversation between the pilot and the co-pilot where one of those pilots ask the colleague, why have you cut off the fuel switch? And he responds by saying, I have not.

Now, these pilots have not been named. So, we don't know whether it was the captain who said this or whether it was the first officer, but there was a definite conversation in the cockpit, which clearly says that the pilots were unaware as to how this fuel switch went into the cutoff mode. They tried to make bring it back to the run position and the -- one of the twin engines tried it with all its might to get to a full power, full trust position but there was not enough time. There was not enough altitude, and the crash happened in no time.

So, this is the sequence of event that has been given in the preliminary report.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[13:40:00]

WHITFIELD: Arunima in Delhi. Thank you. All right. Still ahead, he was a fixture on CNN for years. Remembering the life of longtime political analyst and friend David Gergen, who has died at 83 years old. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Today we're remembering a political legend who is near and dear to the CNN family. Former CNN analyst and presidential adviser David Gergen has passed away after a struggle with Lewy body dementia. He was 83. CNN's Tom Foreman looks back on his life and his contributions to American politics parties.

[13:45:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER CNN ANALYST AND PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Harris (ph) and I can assure you that there are lots and lots of people out there are better equipped to do it than I was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But there aren't a lot of people going between R and D.

GERGEN: There are not a lot of people. And then, yes, if you want to see the results, I can show you the scars on my back.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the explosive world of Washington politics, former presidential adviser David Gergen was an island of calm. For decades, respected by Republicans and Democrats alike, even as the chasm between them grew.

GERGEN: And then this started long before Trump. And it is curious to me about what held us together before and why we're not holding together now.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Born in North Carolina, deeply educated at Harvard, Yale, and beyond, Gergen began his national political life as a speech writer for Richard Nixon. Long after the scandal that took Nixon down, Gergen admitted regrets in his political career. But --

GERGEN: I didn't feel that so much about Watergate. I really felt most of us did not understand until pretty close to the end, and once we understood it was over.

FOREMAN (voice-over): With Gerald Ford, Gergen found a fresh start.

GERGEN: Ford was honest. And he felt that transparency and trust were the glue that held the system together. And he tried to practice that.

FOREMAN (voice-over): When Ronald Reagan was trying to unseat Jimmy Carter, Gergen crafted one of the most immortal lines in modern campaigning.

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Are you better off than you were four years ago?

FOREMAN (voice-over): He went on to serve Democrat Bill Clinton.

GERGEN: Clinton had not a deep mind, but a fast mind. He was not the best strategist, he was the best tactician. FOREMAN (voice-over): And Gergen advised so many others, posing in photo after photo as a trusted ally on both sides of the aisle.

GERGEN: So, the only thing was that I it looks like I've been wearing the same tie for 20 years.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Gergen laughed easily, and as he shifted more to media, writing books, and teaching, he spoke fearlessly.

GERGEN: I don't think anybody comes out of this looking good. And frankly, it's a national embarrassment.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Whether talking about federal budgets or presidential behavior, he said what he believed.

GERGEN: I think in the end of the day, the president is going to have to answer questions under oath. How they get there, I do not know.

FOREMAN: And for all of us here at CNN David was part of the family. He will be missed deeply.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Thank you so much, Tom, and joining us right now to discuss David Gergen's life, former federal prosecutor Michael Zeldin and also good friend of Mr. Gergen. And you all talked together at Harvard. So, Michael, great to see you.

I mean, we are all, you know, mourning the loss of David, he really was very special and certainly was a tell it like it is kind of guy. But you got to know him on a very personal level in many different ways. So, I'd love to hear more about your thoughts and how you're remembering your friend. For starters, you know, he was actually a guest on your podcast, "That Said with Michael Zeldin," right, about last year or so, and you all talked about many of his experiences, whether it was about writing his book, "Hearts Touched with Fire," his journey as a journalist contributing to PBS NewsHour in the '80s. And of course, advising for U.S. presidents of both parties. So, in your discussions, how did you cover all that ground?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, TAUGHT WITH DAVID GERGEN AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY AND HOST, "THAT SAID WITH MICHAEL ZELDIN" PODCAST: Well, we had many conversations. I remember when we were up at Harvard once, we were watching a CNN Town Hall in 2019. And we were sitting next to each other and I said, David, are you pessimistic?

You optimistic? What do you see? And he said, I am short-term pessimistic, but I have unabiding faith in the American people that we will come out of this, come out of it stronger and more dedicated to the principles that founded our country, which was what he was in his essence.

If you look at his career as the setup piece by Tom said, he starts with civil rights work for Governor Terry Sanford in North Carolina, then from Nixon to Reagan to Ford to Carter. His view was to do good for the world. What he wanted to do was contribute. And what he said to me repeatedly was to contribute, you have to do it with humility and patience, and that you cannot just assume that you know more than the person you're talking to.

[13:50:00]

WHITFIELD: He was someone who grew up in the south. He is a son of the south. How do you suppose that shaped him? I mean, what got him excited about being a journalist and then also pursuing being a civil servant in a variety of ways, just like you just described?

ZELDIN: Right. So, he says of himself, when he was in high school, he thought he was going to be a Major League Baseball pitcher. And he was quite good in high school. And then he grew six inches between 11th and 12th grade and he lost all semblance of coordination. So, I figured that was out of the question. So, then he thought maybe he'd be a journalist because he started covering sports now that he couldn't play it and he sort of got the bug for it.

But he said, as a son of the south he joined the military because that's what you do. And he spent three years there, serving his country, and that was the more formative --

WHITFIELD: In the Navy, right?

ZELDIN: -- part of his life. In the Navy. Yes. And then he comes back and he works for Governor Sanford, which he said, as he looked back of his career working for the governor on matters of civil rights in North Carolina was the most meaningful thing that he did, which is quite telling, given all of what he did.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And he certainly did a lot and he touched a lot of us with his wisdom and with his candor and with his honesty, and certainly a lot of humor. A lot of humor. Michael Zelin --

ZELDIN: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: -- thank you so much. Great to see you again too.

ZELDIN: Thanks for having me back, out of retirement for five minutes.

WHITFIELD: Thank you so much. Of course, we are, you know, praying for his family and all of us are thinking about this great loss, David Gergen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:55:00]

WHITFIELD: All right. Almost 40 years ago to the day, rock stars like Bono, Sting, Paul McCartney, and Bob Geldof performed at a landmark music event to raise money for famine relief in Africa. More than a billion and a half people tuned in to watch the concert across 150 countries. The concert not only raised awareness for the ongoing famine and economic issues happening in Africa at the time, but also raised millions of dollars for relief.

Journalist and author of "Hope I Get Old Before I Die" David Hepworth was on the ground of the original Live Aid concert 40 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And now, to start the 16 hours of Live Aid, would you welcome Status Quo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out comes, Quo. And what does Rossi say? He walks out and he goes --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hell are you all right? Are you all right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was so perfect. So, rock and roll, you know? All right. And then --

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Joining me right now to discuss Live Aid's lasting legacy and impact is journalist and author David Hepworth. As a co-presenter of the original broadcast, you saw this groundbreaking concert charity event unfold in real time. It must be fun to relive, but at the same time, I bet it never really left you.

DAVID HEPWORTH, MUSIC JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR, "HOPE I GET OLD BEFORE I DIE": It's very odd to look back because so many of the musical names that you've mentioned are still very well known. So, that tends to make us forget that was actually 40 years ago --

WHITFIELD: I know.

HEPWORTH: -- which was, you know, a considerable time. You know, it was before the days of the cell phone, which is a remarkable of fact to me. You know, it was as far removed from the present as it was removed from the end of the Second World War at the time, you know.

But I've just been struck over the years by how it changed the nature of music, live music presentation, you know. And I think it's -- at Live Aid, you get the beginning of what I call the age of spectacle. You know, it becomes about huge numbers of people in large outdoor venues where -- and it becomes about things you can look at as well as things you can listen to. And it changes the whole perception of what a rockstar is. You suddenly get this idea that that they're kind of heroes and they're, you know, giant cultural figures, you know.

So, in the U.K. you know, they're now getting knighthoods, you know, which wouldn't have happened 40 years ago.

WHITFIELD: Right. Hence Elton John.

HEPWORTH: So, it changed the nature of all this.

WHITFIELD: Yes. HEPWORTH: And it changed the nature of charitable giving, you know, from being just elderly ladies with collecting tins to being TV studios full of celebrities urging you to get out of your credit card. Loads of things changed at Live Aid.

WHITFIELD: And maybe it was the latter that you kind of expected this is going to change the way people contribute. People can make a difference. But you couldn't have possibly anticipated or did you, that this Live Aid would indeed change and shape the way concert going a way -- the way performers perform.