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France To Recognize Palestenian State; Thailand-Cambodia Clashes; Remember Hulk Hogan; Deported Venezuelan Shares Experience in Salvadoran Prison; Sources: U.S. Moves to Rapidly Deport Migrant Children; Remembering Hulk Hogan; "Superhero" Uses Powers to Help Those Struggling. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired July 25, 2025 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:00:35]

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to CNN News. I'm Polo Sandoval live in New York. Ahead in the next hour, French President Emmanuel Macron says that France will recognize a Palestinian state, the move being both praised and criticized. And military clashes between Thailand and Cambodia forcing thousands of people to seek safer ground. And then there's this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HULK HOGAN, AMERICAN WRESTLER: They'll never, ever be a bigger star in the wrestling business than Hollywood, Hulk Hogan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: Remembering wrestling legend Hulk Hogan, who died unexpectedly on Thursday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from New York, this is CNN Newsroom with Polo Sandoval.

SANDOVAL: And welcome to all of our viewers here in the United States and all around the world at this hour. British Prime Minister Keir Starmer says that the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, it has reached new deaths, calling the suffering and starvation there unspeakable and indefensible. He's now planning to hold an emergency call with France and Germany in the day ahead. And this would follow a decision by French President Emmanuel Macron to announce support for a Palestinian state at the UN General assembly meeting, which is scheduled for September.

In a post on X, Mr. Macron added, "The urgent priority today is to end the war in Gaza and bring relief to the civilian population." Meanwhile, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu condemning that decision in his post on X saying, "It rewards terror and would be a launchpad to annihilate Israel." U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio calling the decision a slap in the face to the victims of October 7. Meanwhile, ceasefire talks in Qatar. They have ended with the U.S. and

Israel withdrawing their teams. U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff says that Hamas clearly shows a lack of desire to reach a truce and the U.S. will consider alternative options to bring the remaining hostages home. "Hamas, for its part, says the Witkoff's remarks are, as they described them, malicious, biased and dishonest, part of the ongoing psychological warfare and false propaganda aimed at justifying Israeli aggression." End quote.

Meanwhile, the organization UNICEF reporting more than 100 people in Gaza have already died from starvation since the start of the war, and most of them are children. And the head of the U.N. relief agency in Gaza says that starving residents look more like walking corpses. CNN's Paula Hancocks has her story, but first, a warning that it does contain disturbing video.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Fadiya Abu Namous waits in the midday heat at a community kitchen. She's been here since 6:00 a.m. I have nine family members I can't find food for. She says they've only eaten a little lentil soup since yesterday. Tears fill her eyes as she says they are surviving on water.

Every face shows desperation here in Gaza City. Every man, woman and child clutching precious pots that they hope will be filled enough to help them survive another day. But then this happens. Some men and boys break through the barrier and start helping themselves. Some kitchen workers have to step back to protect themselves from the chaos. Some can only watch from behind the barrier, helpless.

It is the strongest and the fittest who will go home with food today. Judy is six months old, emaciated limbs and gaunt features. Evidence of her malnutrition. Her mother says she also has a chest infection and fever.

When I gave birth to her, she says she weighed 2 kilos. She is now 2.3 kilos. So over six months, she has barely gained any weight. Ranchisi Hospital is filled with cases of malnutrition. Doctors say they can no longer give their patients one meal a day and barely have clean water or medicine.

We have reached a very acute malnutrition phase, this doctor says. It is dangerous. Deaths across Gaza are increasing at an astronomical rate due to malnutrition and the bad water people are drinking.

[01:05:13]

It's a hospital scene replicated at every medical center still functioning in Gaza. Back at the soup kitchen, crowds jostle for position or just to keep hold of their pots. A boy who managed to secure some soup makes sure he does not leave even a drop.

This is not just famine. This woman says it is indescribable. Hunger one side, airstrikes on the other. She's not even hoping for a ceasefire anymore, just the opening of the crossings as people die of hunger. Paula Hancocks, CNN Abu Dhabi.

SANDOVAL: Meanwhile, there's a second day of border clashes between Thailand and Cambodia. It is now prompting evacuations and also raising tensions in Southeast Asia. The Thai military says that fighting resumed early Friday morning with an exchange of small arms fire, heavy weaponry as well as artillery. The Thai army warning that clashes were happening in several areas along the disputed border.

So far, at least 14 people have been killed and more than a dozen wounded in Thailand. At least one person has been killed and five wounded in Cambodia. More than 100,000 people have already evacuated to shelters in Thailand, while more than 4,000 people have already been displaced in Cambodia.

Residents on both sides of the border say that they are scared for their safety after hearing explosions and gunfire. Thailand's acting prime minister ruled out talks with Cambodia while this fighting continues.

For the very latest, let's go live now to Hong Kong and CNN's Kristie Lu Stout. Kristie, this has very quickly escalated from a war of words and now resulting in deadly consequences. From what you're hearing and gathering, what is the latest?

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Polo. Look, fighting has resumed along the Thai-Cambodian border. We've also learned that the death toll is rising. And in Thailand, some 100,000 people have been displaced as a result of the fighting. The tension is indeed simmering after these deadly clashes broke out between these two Southeast Asian neighbors.

On Thursday, Thailand launched military airstrikes using both F16s and drones on Cambodian military targets. That happened after military clashes in several areas along the border took the lives of now. According to Thailand, they're reporting 15 deaths, including 14 civilians. Cambodia reporting at least one person has been killed.

And I want to share with you this video that has been going viral on social media and it shows civilians along the border there, the Thai Cambodian border trying to evacuate. You see lines and lines of civilians just trying to find safe ground.

In this video, gunfire can be heard in the background. Thai Border police can be seen on site. Again, Thailand is reporting that some 100,000 people have been displaced as a result of these clashes.

Now the Thai Royal army has been responding with air power, F16 fire jets, in addition to that, drones. In this next video you're going to look at this. This is a Thai drone dropping a bomb on a weapons facility in Cambodia. Cambodia, we heard from them today, they're saying and accusing Thailand of using cluster bombs in addition to drones and air power in these ongoing clashes.

As you can imagine, villagers on both sides border are scared and they are fearing for their safety. We've been collecting their accounts from both inside Thailand as well as Cambodia. We also heard an account from a 45-year-old mother of four who witnessed these clashes. And I want you to hear what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was about 8 o'clock this morning. Suddenly I heard a loud noise. My son told me it might be thunder and I thought is it thunder or is it loud? More like a gun. At that time I was very scared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STOUT: Thailand and Cambodia, they have a complicated relationship, one based on both cooperation and rivalry. They share an 800- kilometer-long border which has seen its share of military clashes as well as being a source of political upheaval. I am referring to the Prime Minister of Thailand, Paetongtarn Shinawatra, who recently she's been under a lot of political pressure for a leaked call that she had recently with the former but still powerful Cambodian leader Hun Sen. In that call she called him Uncle. In that call she also criticized a Thai army general or appeared to. And because of that she's been suspended and she could be dismissed.

In the meantime, we've heard from Thailand's acting Prime Minister who says this Thailand has not -- Thailand at the moment has ruled out talks unless the fighting stops. Back to you.

SANDOVAL: Yeah, there's multiple reasons that each country can point to as their attempted justification for this escalation. But there are real lives caught in the middle. Kristie Lu Stout, thank you so much for breaking that down for us.

STOUT: Thank you.

[01:10:07]

SANDOVAL: I want to bring in now Thitinan Pongsudhirak, Professor of Political Science at Chulalongkorn University. He joins us live from Bangkok, Thailand at this hour. Professor, thank you so much for taking time and helping us better understand this growing conflict.

THITINAN PONGSUDHIRAK, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, CHULALONGKORN UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

SANDOVAL: Professor, I'm wondering if you could add some broader context to these tensions between Thailand and Cambodia. In your view, as we've just heard, is the situation likely going to get worse before it gets any better?

PONGSUDHIRAK: Well, today there will be a pause, I think. Cambodia has launched a motion with the United Nations Security Council. So the UNSC will have a discussion about this, this conflict now and we will see escalation after this or de-escalation. I think there's a dire need now for some kind of outside mediation or facilitation, coordination of some kind because both sides are locked into this conflict and it's getting violent. I think yesterday the escalation with the airstrikes and also the Cambodians also have been firing artillery rounds and using the BM21 rockets. So both sides are going at it, looking for mediations. The situation

goes back, you know, many years. I mean, you can say it's a thousand- year conflict dispute or 100 years. Both sides, Cambodians and Thais, feel resentful of history.

Thais think that the French took some land from Thailand, gave to Cambodia. Cambodians think that this is their civilization from a long time ago and ultimately this is their land. So that's the basis of it. But then the tit for tat, I think started from about May 28. There was a small gunfight that claimed a life of a Cambodian soldier. Had that been addressed and investigated, I think this could have been preempted.

On the Thai side, you know, very weak government, acting Prime Minister, acting Defense Minister. On a Cambodian side, also a lot of incentive to divert and defect problems at home to this conflict.

SANDOVAL: You mentioned the word mediation, professor, just now. I wonder if we could just pivot to that and any potential mediation opportunities here. Where would these countries turn to for possible outside mediation? Certainly, the United States would, I assume, would not be an option. So what other third party could potentially bring things to a peaceful end?

PONGSUDHIRAK: We have to remember that this flare up is not unprecedented. You know, in 2003 there was a burning of the Thai embassy in Phnom Penh. So Cambodians got on a nationalist frenzy. And in 2011 there's also a border clash that resulted in 20 lives lost, civilians and military. So you know, the flare ups come and go.

This time I think unlike 2011, ASEAN has not played a big role. Normally ASEAN, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations comprising the member states of Southeast Asia would have some kind of a role facilitation. I think now the chair, Anwar Ibrahim of Malaysia, Prime Minister he appointed Thaksin as an adviser on Myanmar and therefore would not trust Anwar as the chair of ASEAN because closer to Thaksin at the same time, you know the ASEAN Secretary General Kao Kim Hourn is Cambodian and supporter of Hun Sen appointee.

So it's really hard now to find within an ASEAN context but ultimately the U.S. not going to do it. China says something about this but I don't think that they will weigh in for the risk of failure. And then the UN I think will not be accepted by the Thai side.

Thailand would like to keep it bilateral between the two sides based on a memorandum of understanding from 2000 that they have. Cambodians want to internationalize it. That's what we're stuck.

I still think that within the ASEAN context is the mediation and facilitation that's desperately needed now.

SANDOVAL: Professor, as we hear from you, we're also seeing some images from Bangkok and you see the military moving some of their equipment through the streets presumably to get them into position here. What are you hearing from civilians where you are and the fear that they have of this situation as you just laid out, potentially growing worse by the day.

PONGSUDHIRAK: The situation here, I mean on the border areas of course very frightening for locals or villagers. Normally, this is a, you know, brisk, vibrant border trade zones. I mean a lot of border trade going back and forth, Thailand-Cambodia. But with this military conflict now that's all off the table and there's been evacuations, diplomatic relations have been severed for now.

In Bangkok, which is further away here, I think the situation is that the military, the army is very much in charge now of the border policy because the government is weak. And the Paetongtarn Prime Minister had that leaked telephone call with Sen deeply damaging, compromising her position. So as a price I think she had -- the government had to give the military a free hand, free reign over this border policy.

[01:15:10]

At the same time, Hun Sen, Hun Manet, the Cambodian side also is provoking more, I think trying to scandalize, internationalize it. So this is where I think the risk is that the Thai army is in charge and the Cambodians are going to keep provoking.

SANDOVAL: Professor Thitinan Pongsudhirak, thank you so much for again helping us better understand the situation. And we'll certainly stay in touch with you as the situation continues to develop. Appreciate your time.

PONGSUDHIRAK: Thank you.

SANDOVAL: Well, Ukrainian family is holding out hope for their son who's been held by Russia for more than three years. They're now getting word about his possible treatment from released prisoners of war. And it's not easy to hear. That account is coming out.

Plus, a Venezuelan migrant recently released from a Salvadoran prison says that he was told welcome to hell when he arrived there. His interview with CNN on the other side of the break.

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[01:20:39]

SANDOVAL: Russian drones and missiles rained down on Ukraine a day after their peace talks failed to get much traction. The targets, including the city of Odessa, were where reports say that one person was killed and at least four others were injured on Thursday. The attack damaged the city's downtown, which is a UNESCO heritage site. Ukraine says its second largest city, Kharkiv, also took a hit which set fire to some cars there in a residential neighborhood.

Officials say two people were killed there and at least 33 others were injured. Russia and Ukraine agreed on future prisoner swaps at their third round of talks in Istanbul, which is expected to happen on Wednesday, or happen on Wednesday I should say. But they made no apparent progress on a possible ceasefire. Now to a Ukrainian military family who are now breaking their silence

about their son. He's a prisoner of war held by Russia for more than three years. His family believes that he faced a harsh treatment in captivity, but they didn't want to speak in public until now. CNN's Rafael Romo with that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "We are not afraid to die on our land, in our city."

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): It was one of the last times they heard his voice before being captured. The Russians kept shelling their last bastion mercilessly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "We keep fighting every day under heavy airstrikes."

ROMO (voiceover): By mid-May 2022, they had run out of ammunition. Surrounded by the enemy, hungry and thirsty after a weeks long siege, fewer than 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers were still holding a steel plant in the city of Mariupol, facing a stark surrender or die. By the end of May, they had all been captured and according to a witness, 400 had died there.

ROMO: It's been more than three years, Lyudmyla, since your brother was captured. What would you like to tell us about him?

LYUDMYLA LEYVA GARSIYA, SISTER OF POW HELD BY RUSSIA: He's a brave man. He was one of those soldiers who was trying to defend Mariupol from Russian occupation.

ROMO (voiceover): Sitting with her father and mother, Lyudmyla Leyva Garsiya says just about the only thing they know about her 27-year-old brother Juan Alberto, is that he's still alive.

ROMO: Do you know where he is and what condition he's in?

GARSIYA: It's really hard to get any information about prisoners of war who are held in Russia. We could get some information from other exchange soldiers.

ROMO (voiceover): Recently released POWs have told the family that Juan Alberto, who was fighting for his native Mariupol, was first sent to Olevnika in Ukraine's Russian occupied Donetsk region before being transferred to Luhansk and finally to the Perma Krai region in Russia.

ROMO: For the first time since the beginning of the war, the POW's family is speaking publicly. They are no longer afraid, they say, to speak about what they consider gross violations of international law by Russia under the Geneva conventions that say POWs must be treated humanely.

ROMO (voiceover): Conditions are terrible, his father says, based on what a recently released POW told him. The food is terrible. They're forced to stand for 16 hours. They can't move. If they do, they're beaten up. They can't speak to each other.

Russia and Ukraine have agreed to prisoner swaps several times since the beginning of the war, including last September, when malnourished but in good spirits, POWs returned home, including one who was unable to walk.

They didn't do anything wrong other than defending their country, their families and their homeland, the POW's mother says. That's the most important thing the world has to understand about them. The wait for this POW family has been agonizing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "We want to survive, to save our people and to continue the fight for our country."

ROMO (voiceover): His father, a Cuban immigrant to Ukraine, says he hopes the captured soldier still remembers what he taught him as a little boy, a phrase the young soldier would repeat when he was under siege in the Mariupol steel plant. Homeland and Life. Rafael Romo, CNN Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[01:25:04]

SANDOVAL: Well, children are not the latest target of the Trump administration's tightening immigration policies, with some teenagers now being asked by the government if they'd like to be deported to their country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:30:25]

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM.

Venezuelans deported from the U.S., they are speaking out about their experience inside El Salvador's notorious mega prison. Some say that they were beaten by prison guards, shot with pellets, or even deprived of proper medical care for months.

CNN's Stefano Pozzebon has their harrowing story, one of the 252 migrants released last week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN JOURNALIST: A homecoming, fit for a star, Jerce Reyes left Venezuela last year alone, and this is how he returned. Welcomed back after being deported from the United States and spending four months in El Salvador's notorious CECOT prison.

He was returned last week with 251 other Venezuelan migrants in exchange for ten U.S. nationals and permanent residents, plus dozens of political prisoners held in Venezuela. Reyes told CNN that his stay in the prison was agony.

JERCE REYES, DEPORTED TO CECOT (through translator): After they shaved our heads, we had to walk about 100 feet, crouching like this. They beat us. When we got to the cells people were screaming. There was blood on the floor, vomit.

Then the director spoke and said, "Welcome to the center for the confinement of terrorism. Welcome to hell on earth."

POZZEBON: On one occasion, he claims he was sent to solitary confinement for hours as a punishment because he tried to shower outside the allocated time. At times, he says, he contemplated suicide.

The Salvadoran government denies these allegations, saying it respects the human rights of those in custody, quote, "without distinction of nationality".

A former professional soccer player, Reyes crossed the U.S. southern border last September for an appointment with immigration authorities. He was accused of being a gang member and immediately detained by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

In December, he applied for asylum, citing Venezuela's economic crisis. But in March, U.S. Homeland Security accused him of belonging to the infamous gang Tren de Aragua, an assessment DHS confirmed to CNN in a statement then and reiterated Thursday.

Reyes says this is a misunderstanding.

This is the incriminating tattoo. He's saying that it represents his favorite soccer club, Real Madrid from Madrid in Spain. -- the crown and a soccer ball. And he's saying that that's why he spent four months in a maximum-security prison.

His tattoo artist told us he inked him in 2018, when Tren de Aragua was barely known inside Venezuela, let alone abroad.

CNN verified Reyes has no criminal record in his own country. What is your message for President Trump.

REYEZ: As the Bible says do not judge by appearances, but by justice.

POZZEBON: This week, Venezuela opened an investigation into several Salvadoran officials, including President Nayib Bukele, for the alleged abuses at the prison. Reyes says that he won't be leaving this place anytime soon, simply glad to be back on the field.

Stefano Pozzebon, CNN -- Machiques, Venezuela.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: A perspective rarely seen.

Meanwhile, we are learning some exclusive new details about U.S. plans to deport unaccompanied migrant children as President Donald Trump ramps up his crackdown on immigration.

Sources now telling CNN that federal agents have been directed to ask teenagers whether they want to voluntarily leave the country. Now, until now, that option to self-deport, it was only given to children from Mexico and Canada. And this could certainly impact a considerable number of migrant children, since most are typically-placed with family members in the United States but they're still considered unaccompanied if they entered the country alone.

Want to get some more analysis now. Let's go to Neha Desai. She is the managing director of children's human rights at the National Center for Youth Law. She joins us from Oakland, California.

Neha, it's really good to see you. Thank you so much for joining us.

NEHA DESAI, MANAGING DIRECTOR, CHILDREN'S HUMAN RIGHTS, NATIONAL CENTER FOR YOUTH LAW: Thank you so much for having me.

SANDOVAL: So you just heard some of the exclusive reporting from CNN, which reveals that until now, federal authorities did not really ask unaccompanied children from countries that are not Mexico and Canada if they want to self-deport.

[01:34:47]

SANDOVAL: So in your view, I mean, is this a decision that a 14- through 17-year-old could possibly make for his or herself? I mean, isn't this incredibly consequential?

DESAI: Yes, it is absolutely not a decision that a teenager can make for themselves, particularly, no child is in a position to make this sort of life-altering, consequential decision, presumably on the spot without access to legal counsel.

And these are children that have experienced extraordinary trauma, and in the moment in which they are being presented with this so-called choice in an inherently coercive environment, there is no meaningful way for them to make a decision.

SANDOVAL: I remember about ten years ago when we saw this -- this crisis of unaccompanied children coming into the United States. I remember standing on the banks of the Rio Grande and learning that many of these children were coming to the country to meet up with their parents.

So hypothetically, if some of these teenagers decide to take up the U.S. government's offer to deport them back to their country, in some of these cases, who's waiting for them in El Salvador, in Nicaragua, in Mexico, wherever they may be coming from?

DESAI: That's an excellent question. We have worked with countless children over the years who have no family that they can return to. Children that are fleeing because they are orphaned. They had no one in home country or they currently have no one in home country and they certainly don't have a safe situation to which they can return.

And we also have met with children -- I met with a young boy who was detained in federal immigration custody, who fled because his stepfather murdered his mother. And he was terrified that if he stayed in home country, he too would be murdered.

So even if they have family, they might not have a safe situation to which they can return.

SANDOVAL: Yes. You also told my team that you believe that this policy shift is possibly a violation of federal protections.

We should say that Homeland Security, a spokesperson for that agency, told CNN, and I'll read you a statement that we received, they said, this is a long-standing practice that was used by previous administrations to prioritize getting children back to the safety of a parent or legal guardian."

What do you say to this administration that essentially saying in this statement, they are insisting that they're simply looking out for the child's well-being?

DESAI: Yes, as we just discussed, right, that the false premise is safety here, right. So many of these children do not even have family to whom they can return. And even if they do, it is not necessarily a safe situation.

This directive certainly is deeply concerning and calls into question the administration's commitment to adhere to longstanding federal law and its federal law that is really grounded in child welfare protections.

This is not about immigration. This is about the fact that these are children. And for many, many years, across the aisle, there was agreement that this is a population that is deserving of care and protection.

And that is why a bipartisan Congress almost 20 years ago created a separate system and additional protections for this population. And now we see those being potentially profoundly compromised.

SANDOVAL: Just looking back on the last six months of the of this latest Trump administration, Neha, we really have seen the administration sort of expand its sights, right?

I mean, immediately after the president took office again, certainly went after undocumented people with violent past. But then we begin to notice that they were going after people that were reporting in for check ins, for example, as part of their routine -- their regular check ins with immigration court, the nonviolent undocumented people.

We've seen some of the raids in the agriculture industry and hospitality, et cetera. Is this yet another expansion of the administration essentially trying to boost their deportation numbers, do you think?

DESAI: That's absolutely the case. These children are political pawns right now. In a larger effort to deport as many people as possible.

And the concept that a child could actually make a meaningful choice to self-deport is, is frankly preposterous. So we have seen multiple children picked up for traffic stops and then sent -- put back into federal immigration custody, even though the government had previously determined that they had safe sponsors, generally family to whom they could be released.

This is really just a dragnet to bring more children and more people into the deportation machine. And it is frankly, really heartbreaking to see that children are now being used in this politicized way.

[01:39:49]

SANDOVAL: Yes. Look, this is a certainly a complicated matter or topic, regardless of where people may sit on it. Just the idea of a 13-, 14-, 15-, up to 17-year-old forced to make that decision and possibly be removed to a country where there may not be anybody waiting for them, that certainly will trigger some concerns.

I'm curious, finally, just your thoughts on what we could -- actually, I should say just a quick final thought on what you expect could be next from the Trump administration. What's your biggest concern now?

DESAI: With regard to this policy or future policies to come?

SANDOVAL: Future policies to come as the Trump administration essentially expands its immigration policies.

DESAI: Yes, we certainly are very concerned about the expansion of family detention, which seems likely given what is in the reconciliation text. These are incredibly, incredibly inhumane environments that children, infants, toddlers, young children are detained in for increasingly longer periods of time.

And as more and more children and families are caught up in this, what we are seeing is family separation in many different forms. We are seeing U.S. citizen children separated from undocumented parents. We are seeing children who have family that can care for them, but are being detained because their families are undocumented. We are seeing a proliferation of family separation.

And while it is not seen in the same way as it was during the first administration, I can assure you that it is happening every single day in more and more different trajectories.

SANDOVAL: Neha Desai, thank you so much for your perspective.

DESAI: Thank you so much for having me.

SANDOVAL: Of course.

Still to come here on CNN NEWSROOM remembering a legend. How Hulk Hogan shaped pro wrestling, and also the legacy that he left behind.

[01:41:48]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANDOVAL: Pro wrestling legend Hulk Hogan -- you know it -- he was known for his larger-than-life personality, especially in the 80s and 90s and his shirt-tearing routine. Now he has died at the age of 71. He was pronounced dead in a hospital after emergency crews responded to his home in Florida on reports of someone having cardiac arrest.

He was born Terry Bollea. He was widely recognized as the biggest wrestling star of all time, like we said, especially in the 80s and 90s. This was when he helped shape the world of wrestling entertainment into the behemoth that it is today.

Police say Hogan's death is not considered suspicious, but an investigation is still ongoing.

Joining us now from Lisbon, Portugal is Josephine Riesman, author of "Ringmaster: Vince McMahon and the Unmaking of America". Josephine, thank you so much for spending some time with us.

JOSEPHINE RIESMAN, AUTHOR, "RINGMASTER: VINCE MCMAHON AND THE UNMAKING OF AMERICA" Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

SANDOVAL: Of course. So now we're going to get into what made Hulk Hogan a controversial and polarizing figure in a moment.

But first, I wonder if you could just broadly tell me historically, what made him a standout in the 80s and 90s?

RIESMAN: It's funny. This is the special sauce that's so hard to identify. You look at him and he was a bit of a ridiculous figure in the 1980s even when he was at the height of his fame. He had a potbelly. He had a handlebar mustache. He talked very fast, and a lot of it sounded like nonsense.

But people really went for it. I mean, part of it was the gestalt of the 1980s, where the sizzle was more important than the steak, and it was a real time for go-go spectacle.

So for a lot of reasons he caught on with the American public and the global public in the mid-1980s in a way that no professional wrestler really had ever done and to this day, kind of still hasn't.

SANDOVAL: I heard him described by some as somebody who was in the right place at the right time, with the right charisma at the time. Perhaps that could tie into that secret sauce that you mentioned.

RIESMAN: Absolutely.

(CROSSTALKING)

SANDOVAL: How did he shape the -- how do you think he shaped the world of sports in general, of sports entertainment?

RIESMAN: Well, that's an interesting question. Sports entertainment, you can go on for days about the ways in which Hulk Hogan influenced the pseudo sport of professional wrestling.

But when it comes to actual sports, you have to remember Hulk Hogan was on the cover of "Sports Illustrated", and this was an incredibly controversial thing at the time in the mid-80s, because wrestling was -- was it a sport or wasn't it? It was ambiguous back then.

And what is true is that Hulk Hogan's delivery and Hulk Hogan's charisma was very influential for a lot of athletes, pro wrestling in general became very influential on how pro athletes in real sports convey their messages to the public. They do what in wrestling is called cutting promos now.

SANDOVAL: Yes, we know of the piece that was published ten years ago of the sex tape, saying some horrendous things. On that note, how does the controversy of Hulk Hogan really have an impact on his legacy you think?

[01:49:46]

RIESMAN: It's hard to say. I have seen a -- I don't want to say surprising, but perhaps fitting number of negative comments about Hulk Hogan online today on social media.

Hulk Hogan really torched his reputation with a large segment of his fan base over and over again for multiple reasons.

But ultimately, in the final months of his life, he chose to become a very outspoken mouthpiece for Donald Trump and helped get him elected. And there are a lot of people who are very upset about the Trump presidency.

But Terry Bollea -- Hulk Hogan -- was not one of those people who was upset. He was very happy about it. And I think that the controversy of that and the controversy involved in his lawsuit that destroyed Gawker, the very important media outlet, in 2016 these are all very dark stains on American history, on media history, politics.

And I hate to say it, but I hope those will live on. I hope that people will remember the bad things that were done in the name of Hulkamania.

SANDOVAL: On the politics that you mentioned, Josephine, and you know, that was really one of the moments that we remembered the most, perhaps, of the RNC last year was when he took to the podium and you saw him in that very familiar ripping of the shirt.

What do you think really sort of pulled him towards the world of politics in a world of Trump politics.

RIESMAN: Oh well, you just answered your own question. Donald Trump is Hulk Hogan's biggest fan. I mean, Donald Trump has been watching McMahon family professional wrestling since he was a child in the 1950s. He was watching Hulk Hogan when Hulk Hogan became a big deal in the New York area and then more broadly throughout the world in the 1980s.

Donald Trump is a huge fan. So I think Hogan's entry into politics really is just largely a matter of he's now welcome and invited because he has a huge fan sitting behind the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office. SANDOVAL: Ultimately, he played a character. As you mentioned, Terry

Bollea is his name and in your latest piece, you also mentioned what he writes in his autobiography about being a little boy heading to his -- to his first wrestling match and being terrified.

So there is sort of another side of Hulk Hogan. Do you think that fans around the world knew where Terry ended and Hulk began?

RIESMAN: No one ever does with wrestling. That's the magic and the dark magic sometimes of professional wrestling is it's very difficult to find out where the fiction ends and the reality begins. And it's the most difficult for the people who are manufacturing that blend of fact and fantasy.

The wrestlers themselves very often get lost in their own characters. And yes, when Terry Bollea was a young, just up-and-coming wrestler when he was 23 years old, he was threatened with sexual assault before his first match and it really shook him.

But then, flash forward to 2025 and you have a very different landscape that he helped create and one that is very dangerous. So anyway, yes.

SANDOVAL: Yes, Hulk Hogan, he certainly had that secret sauce that could fill the stands, but it did not come without controversy.

Josephine Riesman, really appreciate your insight. Thank you for your time.

RIESMAN: Oh, please, thanks for having me on.

SANDOVAL: And still to come, we meet a dad and corrections officer turned superhero who's helping spread some smiles. That's coming up.

[01:53:19]

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SANDOVAL: So what does your favorite superhero do? Fly, others can shapeshift, maybe teleport or use magic, or maybe even read minds.

But a superhero from Long Beach, California is using his powers to help lift people who are struggling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JERRY WILLIAMS, JUVENILE CORRECTION OFFICER: My name is Jerry Williams. By day, I'm a deputy juvenile correction officer, and by night -- that's for you -- I'm trying to uplift as many human beings and animals as possible.

Oh, no.

I came up with the idea of dressing up as superheroes. Storm Trooper, Kylo Ren, Spider-Man, Miles Morales, Deadpool. But my favorite, favorite is probably Mandalorian. I visit the houseless community, veterans, the elderly, children with

special needs, disabilities -- anybody that's in need of any type of service or help that I can provide, I reach out.

When I'm out visiting the hospital, I bring as many toys as possible. I go get dressed, and then that's when the magic begins.

Good morning, guys and young lady. Cake for you.

Sometimes I go out with my sidekick.

I like that smile on your face.

It's making a distraction wearing the costume. But at the same time, I'm able to help them because they feel like they can trust me.

Another hug -- oh my goodness.

It's healing for them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

WILLIAMS: You're welcome. You be good. All right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok.

WILLIAMS: This all began in 2009 after losing my mother to an eight- year battle with cancer. My mother was a loving individual. She was a probation officer in the community. Everyone respected her.

I fell into a five-year depression period where I almost lost myself. What I did was come up with this nonprofit to honor her and to thank her for being the mother that she was.

A Future Superhero and Friends, is based in southern California, but we've been across all 50 states five and a half times, two more states, and it's going to be six times.

Over the years now, I've probably visited over 25,000 plus individuals in need.

Beautiful.

I'm willing to travel anywhere by plane, boat, whatever I need to do to make an impact on somebody's life.

I love you, man.

I just want to be able to do this every single day. And I think I would be satisfied.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: That is a true superhero.

From the team in Atlanta and me in New York, thank you so much for watching. I'm Polo Sandoval.

CNN NEWSROOM continues with my colleague Kim Brunhuber right after a short break.

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