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FBI: Apparent Bomb Found In Home Of California Man Who Allegedly Sent Money To ISIS; Manhunt For Montana Mass Shooting Suspect Underway; Ghislaine Maxwell Moved To Lower-Security Prison In Texas; Trump Claims He Wants To "Release Everything" In Epstein Files; Trump Fires Sr. Govt. Official Over Weak Jobs Report, Claiming Without Evidence Data Was "Rigged". 36 Tons Of New Aid Airdropped Into Gaza By Coalition Of Countries; Trump Fires Sr. Govt. Official Over Weak Jobs Report, Claiming Without Evidence Data Was "Rigged". Aired 12-1p ET

Aired August 02, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

GURINDER CHADNA, DIRECTOR, "BEND IT LIKE BECKHAM": -- you know? And so, I thought, why not put an Indian girl next to the antithesis of that, which is soccer, football, and bring the two together.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: It's such a great story.

That's all we have time for. Don't forget, you can find all our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com/audio, and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching, and I'll see you again next week.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

And we begin this hour in California, where federal agents have arrested a man for allegedly sending money to ISIS. They have identified 28-year-old Mark Lorenzo Villanueva as the suspect and recovered what appears to be a homemade bomb from his home. Court documents also allege that he sent a dozen payments, totally more than $1,600, to two individuals who accessed those funds overseas. Villanueva, who officials say is a permanent U.S. resident originally from the Philippines, faces up to 20 years in federal prison if convicted of providing support to ISIS.

For more insight, rather, into the investigation, I'm joined now by Jason Pack, retired FBI supervisory special agent. Good to see you in a case like this. So what would have led investigators to this man?

JASON PACK, RETIRED FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Fredricka, good afternoon. This is a textbook example of how the FBI has online undercover agents in the right spot. So they were in the right spot when Villanueva, according to the affidavit, allegedly began talking to an identified person, as they identified in the affidavit, who, in a chilling thing that I read, was responsible for driving people to the Iranian embassy in Lebanon to blow it up.

And so apparently, according to this affidavit, he only served 10 years. And then when the Assad regime fell, they all got out of prison. So these are the types of people allegedly that Villanueva has been talking to. So law enforcement was able to be in the mix in that chat and were able to develop probable cause that Villanueva sent this money via Western Union overseas.

WHITFIELD: And then what do you make of the apparent homemade bomb that investigators say they also found in his bedroom? What does that suggest to you about his intention, access to supplies, even guidance?

PACK: Right, Fredricka, that's what prosecutors and investigators call this overt act that really puts the pedal to the metal, so to speak, for law enforcement. Whenever there's something identified that's a threat like this and goes beyond just talking in ideology, this is really where the FBI has to step up and move. And I think what you saw from this affidavit is that that's exactly what happened.

When the first mention of the bomb was made, then the FBI had to take this case down. Apparently, they found this bomb that you're seeing on the screen here, this pipe bomb. The technical term, obviously, the improvise explosive device. The bomb text rendered that safe. But that just goes to show you this ideology and this action goes to show the intent of exactly how serious this was.

WHITFIELD: And then earlier this year, a 19-year-old man was also arrested for allegedly attempting to carry out a mass shooting in Michigan on behalf of ISIS. What might be drawing young men, in your view, to act on behalf of a foreign terrorist group? And perhaps what does it say about recruitment?

PACK: Right, that's a very important point, too. So we know that the U.S. has done a pretty good job of taking the land and the space of label from ISIS overseas. But what a harder frontier is, is this online community. And so these echo chambers start and the young men start talking to each other and start identifying with people overseas who have these radical ideas.

And then they think it's something that's a good idea to do for some reason. And they move forward with this overt actions. And so that's where the FBI and other intelligence agencies come into play. Being in these social media platforms legally and lawfully, not -- I was an online undercover, too. And you can't set up "people," quote unquote.

A lot of people think you can go in and set up people. That's not how it works. These people come to you and start talking about their ideology. So I think it's interesting that while -- yes, there are not as many places on Earth for ISIS physically, this online turf is really an important battle in the fight against domestic and homegrown terrorism.

WHITFIELD: All right, very fascinating.

Jason Pack, great to see you. Thanks so much.

PACK: Thanks.

WHITFIELD: All right, we're also following other breaking news. Manhunts are underway right now for two mass shooting suspects in Tennessee. Officials are looking for a man they allege killed four relatives of a baby who was found abandoned outside of a home.

[12:05:02]

And in Montana, officials are searching for a suspect who they say killed four people at a bar in the town of Anaconda Friday morning. Investigators have located the vehicle of the suspect fled late Friday night in a white Ford F-150.

CNN's Josh Campbell is following the latest developments on that search.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: An active manhunt underway right now in Montana after authorities say a man allegedly opened fire inside of a bar in the city of Anaconda in the western part of the state, sadly killing four people and then fleeing. We've seen this infusion of multiple law enforcement agencies at the local level, the state level, as well as agents from the FBI and the ATF now also involved in this manhunt.

Now, authorities pushed out this image that you're seeing here of the suspect. They named him as Michael Paul Brown. This information they're trying to get out to the public. So anyone who might see this person or recognize him will actually call law enforcement.

Authorities did give an update on the status of this manhunt on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

RICO BARKELL, GRANITE COUNTY SHERIFF: Anytime you got, you know, an active shooter still on the loose is going to be dangerous. So I know Deer Lodge County and Anaconda are taking every kind of precaution they can to make sure their citizens are safe. If there is any changes in their safety, they'll be notified. As of right now, there's no threat to the community as right now.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

CAMPBELL: As far as a possible motive, authorities have not yet said their first focus right now is on locating this individual and bringing him safely into custody. We have seen in so many of these incidents that you and I have covered involving mass shootings that often in the early hours after an incident, sometimes police don't actually know the identity of the person that they're looking for.

That's different here. Here, relatively quickly, officials in Montana came out with the identification with this image, again, trying to push this information out, telling the public that this suspect should be considered armed and dangerous after this incident. Again, they're wanting people to contact law enforcement, but they're specifically saying if you see this individual, do not approach him. Rather, pick up the phone. Call 911.

WHITFIELD: All right, Josh Campbell, thanks so much.

And then in Tennessee, officials are now looking for a man they say killed four people who were found dead Tuesday in Tiptonville. Their bodies were discovered hours after a seven-month-old baby related to the victims was found abandoned in a car seat, but alive in the yard of a random home.

CNN Correspondent Rafael Romo is here with more details. So what are authorities saying about the suspect and how their search is going?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, great concern, Fred, because court records show the suspect has a criminal record that includes a 10-year sentence for aggravated robbery. And the concern for officials in Tennessee and the public is that he's still at large. The suspect has been identified as 28-year-old Austin Robert Drummond by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation.

He's 5 feet, 10 inches tall, weighs 190 pounds and has brown hair, blue eyes and a goatee, according to the TBI. The vehicle the suspect was believed to be driving, a white 2016 Audi, was found unoccupied in Jackson, Tennessee. That's more than 70 miles away from Tiptonville, where the bodies of the victims were found.

Drummond is accused of killing four relatives of a Tennessee baby who was found abandoned, alive in sweltering heat (ph) on Tuesday in a car seat. And what authorities describe as a random front yard near the Dyer County community of Tigrett, nearly a 40-mile drive southeast of Tiptonville, where the bodies were found.

Tennessee officials haven't said what led it to name -- what led them to name Drummond as a suspect or whether investigators know of a motive in the killings or why the baby was abandoned a county away from where the bodies were found. What they want people to know, Fred, right now, is that the suspect is still at large and could be dangerous.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

DANNY GOODMAN, 29TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY GENERAL: We are dealing with an extremely violent individual. This was what we would think is an isolated incident. It's not anything to where we think the community is in danger because of a person who may be out here randomly targeting people, because we don't think that's the case at all.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

ROMO: Goodman also said the victims were all from Dyer County and they suspect the suspect knew all of them. He also confirmed that 21-year- old James Wilson and 20-year-old Adriana Williams were the parents of the baby who was found abandoned in Dyer County. 38-year-old Cortney Rose and Braydon Williams, a teenager, were also killed.

Officials also said Drummond, the suspect, is believed to still be in the area. The U.S. Marshals Service and TBI are offering a joint $15,000 reward for any information leading to Drummond's arrest. But again, officials telling people, if you see him, call 911. Do not approach him.

WHITFIELD: All right. Very wise.

Thanks so much, Rafael Romo. Appreciate it.

All right, still ahead, Epstein -- Jeffrey Epstein, co-conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell, moved to a minimum security prison camp. Now some of Epstein's victims are calling it a cover up.

[12:10:10]

Plus, President Trump firing the top official behind the latest U.S. jobs report because he didn't like the numbers.

And a much needed reprieve from weeks of unrelenting heat and humidity is rolling in. But it's bringing another flood threat along with it.

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[12:15:12]

WHITFIELD: As the Trump administration continues to face questions about its handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files, Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, was moved to a low-security federal prison camp in Texas on Friday. Maxwell is serving a 20-year sentence for her role in Epstein's crimes. This sort of transfer is relatively uncommon for someone convicted of these types of sex offenses.

The Justice Department has not provided a reason for the transfer, but it comes a week after Maxwell met with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche. Here's what President Trump said last night when -- about when the public will learn about more details about Blanche's visit.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I don't know because I haven't spoken about it, but he's a very talented guy, Todd Blanche, and a very straight shooter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

TRUMP: And I think he probably wanted to know, you know, just to get a feeling of it, because we'd like to release everything, but we don't want people to get hurt, that shouldn't be hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

TRUMP: And I would assume that was why he was there.

(END VIDEOCLIP) WHITFIELD: CNN's Ed Lavandera has more on Maxwell's transfer to the prison in Texas.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One of the first things you notice when you arrive here at the federal prison camp in Bryan, Texas, is that much of it is not surrounded by tall fencing with razor wire. Most of it is surrounded by a simple black metal fence that you would see in many residential neighborhoods across the country.

And that kind of gets to the point here that this is a minimum security facility. We were told that there are more than 600 female inmates at this facility. And it's also, we should point out, very unusual that Ghislaine Maxwell was transferred here. This is a facility, a prison camp that usually houses inmates that are considered to be low risk, not a flight risk, and also be nonviolent.

But there are a number of high profile inmates at this particular location in Bryan, Texas. One of them including Jen Shah, who was a cast member of The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. And also Elizabeth Holmes, who was executive in the blood testing company Theranos, and part of a high profile criminal trial just a few years ago.

But, you know, this facility has areas for outdoor recreation. There's an area underneath some oak trees in the shade where inmates can sit in benches and chairs there. Simply surrounded by one chain with signs that say out of bounds if you go beyond that area. And it literally sits right at the entrance into the prison camp.

Federal prison officials have not explained the details and the specifics of how Maxwell was transferred from a facility, a more secure facility in Tallahassee to this one here in Texas. They have not explained that. But for the moment, Ghislaine Maxwell is one of the most high profile inmates here at this prison camp.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Bryan, Texas.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ed Lavandera, thank you so much.

All right, joining us right now is Julian Zelizer, a historian and professor at Princeton University. He also writes the Longview newsletter on Substack. Always great to see you.

JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Thanks for having me.

WHITFIELD: So you just published a piece on your Substack in which you ask what it says about the Republican Party that it's the Trump administration's failure to release the Epstein files that has fueled the biggest backlash now against the president. You're writing specifically, "It's the issues that haven't prompted any outrage that reveal just what the party faithful are willing to accept from Trump." Elaborate on that further.

ZELIZER: Well, I think the silences of a political party can be very indicative. So much has happened since January of his inauguration. And we've heard almost nothing from the GOP. So one example is the use of presidential power, imperial presidential power on many issues, from intimidating law firms to a very aggressive intervention in the economy via tariffs. Republicans have been very silent.

So, the point is with the Epstein files, the party's fighting a lot and being very loud in their criticism. With imperial presidential power, almost nothing.

WHITFIELD: And how problematic is it that there's been very little GOP outrage as a result of now Maxwell's transfer? What did it take for her to be transferred to a lower security facility in Texas? You know, why was she moved? Were -- was there some sort of deal made that helped, you know, facilitate her move?

ZELIZER: Well, that's connected to the presidential power issue. Meaning, there has been an erosion in Trump 2.0 of the line separating the presidency and the Department of Justice, which was put into place really during Watergate, after Watergate in the early 1970s. And so this raises a question of what are kind of legal officials doing to protect the president or to do the president's bidding, regardless of what the Epstein files reveal or don't reveal, that kind of make this an arm of the Oval Office rather than an arm of law, order and the Constitution.

[12:20:25]

WHITFIELD: Trump was also asked about whether he would consider pardoning Ghislaine Maxwell during this interview on Newsmax last night. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is clemency on the table for her in exchange for testimony?

TRUMP: I'm allowed to do it, but nobody's asked me to do it. I know nothing about it. I don't know anything about the case, but I know I have the right to do it. I have the right to give pardons. I've given pardons to people before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

TRUMP: But nobody's even asked me to do it.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

WHITFIELD: Why does he keep answering it like that? Because a lot of questions have, you know, been presented to him about what does this mean? Are you going to pardon? And he keeps saying either he doesn't know, no one's asked me to do so, it's a thing I can do. What does that kind of response elicit?

ZELIZER: Well, look, part of it is to keep his options open. And we don't know if he's actually deliberating or he knows and he just doesn't want to say. But this gives him maximum space to do what he wants. It's a negotiating tactic because she doesn't know what he's going to do. And finally, this is a president who believes in drama. Everything he does, he wants to make a drama for the public. And so this, even as the issue is problematic for him, also kind of keeps a level of intrigue that he controls as opposed to the other parts of the narrative.

WHITFIELD: And now there is, you know, some criticism coming from a small -- handful of Republican senators after the White House's decision to fire the labor statistics chief after Trump accused her without evidence of actually manipulating monthly jobs report data for the -- for political purposes. So there is some outrage. But why is there no intervention? Why is no one intervening on this decision?

ZELIZER: Right. A handful is not a majority of the party. And raising some criticism is not the same as doing something. And this is a big step, actually. This is the kind of data that the economy depends on, that we as voters and members of Capitol Hill need to gauge what's going on.

And he has just taken a big step to say, look, if the facts don't accord with what I am doing and aren't favorable, I'll get rid of them. And so this should be a moment when even the most hardened conservative MAGA Republican, if the party really still had those kinds of principles, would say, no, we need a baseline of facts. Let's have fights over policy, but not over reality. But we're not hearing much, nor are we seeing much action.

WHITFIELD: All right. Julian Zelizer, great to see you. Thanks so much.

ZELIZER: Thanks for having me. Bye-bye.

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up, a widespread hunger in Gaza. Even some medical workers can't get enough to eat. I'll speak to an American doctor who just returned from Gaza about what she saw on the ground there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:45]

WHITFIELD: After Friday's weaker than expected jobs report, President Trump is unleashing his fury at the official in charge of releasing the data. In a post on social media, Trump announced that he fired the government's top labor statistician, saying without evidence that she rigged the data to make him look bad.

CNN's Julia Benbrook is in New Jersey where the president is spending the weekend at his Bedminster estate. Julia, what else does Trump say?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred. This story continues to be a big focus point as many are expressing concerns about what this could mean for the data going forward and what type of precedent it sets. After a weaker than expected jobs report was announced, President Donald Trump fired the commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Doctor Erika McEntarfer. And he has accused her without evidence of manipulating the data repeatedly saying that he just doesn't believe the numbers. He's even said on social media expressing that this is his opinion saying that in his opinion, the jobs numbers were rigged in order to make Republicans. And then he wrote in all caps, "And ME look bad."

In an interview that was recorded with Newsmax shortly before the president traveled out here to New Jersey yesterday, he was asked for more details on his decisions to fire her.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

TRUMP: -- with her, and there have been a lot of questions, and we fired her because we didn't believe the numbers today. I was saying to myself, I wonder who does this. And when I checked, I said, this person is very suspect to me. So we fired.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the accusation is this person was essentially cooking the books and the numbers are not accurate, the job was not accurate.

TRUMP: Well, I think there's some strange things going on because --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

TRUMP: -- just before same person, just before the election, you know, they came out with these great numbers. And I said, I don't believe those.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BENBROOK: Now let's take a look at these numbers that seem to trigger some of this frustration. The report generated by the Bureau of Labor Statistics showed that just 73,000 jobs were added in July. That was less than expected, and some administration officials have expressed disappointment in those numbers.

But on top of that, the numbers from May and June were significantly revised downward compared to what was initially reported. It's important to note that revisions are normal in this process. Now, as Trump has pointed out, she was appointed by President Joe Biden, but was confirmed in the Senate overwhelmingly with bipartisan support. It was actually an 86 to 8 vote. And two of Trump's top team members who were senators at the time, Vice President J.D. Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, did vote to support her.

For now, the deputy commissioner will be stepping into an acting role as Trump searches for the right person to replace her. He says that a lot of people are interested in this role and suggested that there are three names that currently come to mind. He did not share more details. Fred?

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: All right, let us know when you know. Julia Benbrook, thanks so much.

All right, new tariffs have been announced for just about every country in the world. How they could affect your wallet, next.

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[12:35:37]

WHITFIELD: All right, new today, protesters held an emergency demonstration in Tel Aviv's Hostage Square. It followed the release of a Hamas-distributed video showing initiated Israeli hostages. The protest also coincided with a visit to Hostage Square by U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff. CNN's Barbie Latza Nadeau is covering this story for us. So Witkoff was in Gaza yesterday, now Tel Aviv today. How is he being received?

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN REPORTER: Well, you know, he spent about five hours in Gaza yesterday visiting a site of an aid distribution plant. This is the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, Israeli U.S.-backed aid site. Because no Western journalists are allowed in and he didn't take anyone with him, it's really difficult to see what kind of version of events he saw, if it was sort of curated or if it was really the real thing. So we don't really know how he was received there.

Today in Tel Aviv, though, he spent about three hours with these hostage families, speaking to them and ensuring to them that the U.S.'s priority is to get the hostages home. In fact, he says that all 50, we assume about 20 possibly are still alive and the rest are -- are not, 50 of the hostages, the remaining should be delivered all in one, is what he's demanding.

And he said that the priorities for the United States were, of course, to get those hostages home and then to hold Hamas responsible for -- for the -- the violence and then to take care of the Gazan people. So, you know, we've seen a lot of activity there and a lot of anger in the streets in Tel Aviv. But he's trying to ensure them that at least the U.S. is doing what they can to try to bring those hostages home, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Barbie Latza Nadeau, thank you so much.

All right. Let's continue the conversation now with U.S. Dr. Ambereen Sleemi. She is a Euro gynecologist and surgeon. And she just returned from Gaza, where she was a volunteer at the Nasser Medical Complex for almost a month. Good to see you, Dr. Sleemy.

DR. AMBEREEN SLEEMI, RETURNED FROM GAZA THIS WEEK: Thanks for having me.

WHITFIELD: So can you describe the conditions at the maternity hospital where you worked?

SLEEMI: Sure, I spent most of my time in the maternity hospital for the last four weeks, and I just got back a few days ago. I went with an organization called Baitulmaal, which is a U.S.-based nonprofit. And the conditions that I worked with were unimaginable. And the conditions that women were delivering babies in were unlike anything I've seen. I have worked in many conflict, post-conflict parts of the world, resource-poor, impoverished parts of the world, and I've never seen anything like I saw in Gaza.

WHITFIELD: Specifically, what do you mean? Like, what -- what was -- what was missing? What -- what kind of conditions did you have to work through? Are you talking about availability of medicine tools, the condition of the patients? What?

SLEEMI: Yes, I'm talking about all of that. I'm talking about impoverished pregnant patients who were then delivering malnourished and babies that were small for their gestational age. I took care of women who had complications due to lack of nutrition. I took care of women who -- pregnant women who, in addition to being malnourished, had all sorts of complications that have increased in the last few months and then worsened with the Israeli blockade of aid.

And this showed up as, again, malnourished women, preterm -- preterm deliveries, complications, including infections and sepsis, an increase in abortion and stillbirth rates. And again, the babies then that were born, if you went into the NICU, which is the neonatal intensive care unit, they were full of all these babies that were very small for gestational age, not thriving. And there was at that point and still not enough formula available. And I was taking care of moms who now are malnourished and can't breastfeed.

And I think, you know, as a mother, we know how important breastfeeding is to the baby, how it's the best thing for the baby. And also babies that are born with, you know, that are not meeting their milestones. And so I think as parents, as a parent, it was very hard to see, you know, women taking care of their babies, but without the resources to feed them. And knowing that the conditions would not allow for them to thrive. And we've become very obsessed with milestones.

[12:40:08]

I know me and having kids and other moms are very, you know, in tune to what it means to have your child thrive. And I feel like the women in Gaza and the babies were not in a condition where they could thrive.

WHITFIELD: Right. And as a nursing mother, you can't produce the milk if you are not nourished and getting the basics such as clean water in order to produce that milk. So you said recently, you know, that the health care system in Gaza has been systemically taken apart. Describe what you mean about that.

SLEEMI: Sure. What I mean by that is that not only are supplies, adequate amount of supplies not being let in, for example, suture to do surgeries and C-sections, wound care for all the trauma that we saw, the burns and explosive injuries. And just before I left, there was a notice that Nasser Hospital, which is the largest hospital in the southern part of Gaza that was still working. It has over 400 patients that needed daily wound care from explosive injuries, shrapnel and gunshot wounds that they had run out of supplies to take care of patients.

And that, coupled with lack of sanitation, leads to infection, leads to sepsis, leads to patient dying. And it led to a condition that had not really been reported, which was infestation of maggots in the wounds, which you can imagine, given the sanitation and need to care for wounds after extensive surgeries to help people heal, it's almost impossible. And without nourishment for patients in the hospitals, again, how can you recover from these extensive wounds without adequate nutrition. So that's what I mean.

And to facilities, almost all the hospitals have been bombed, medical schools and the educational system for future doctors in Gaza have been dismantled. So the students that I had every day still showing up to work, as did all the doctors every day, despite also battling malnourishment and insecurity of food and security just in general, sleeping in tents where bombs were going off. They still showed up every day looking malnourished and obviously dehydrated because also there was lack of water, trying to do the best that they can. That's what I mean when we're discussing this dismantling of the medical care system.

WHITFIELD: Yes, you -- you painted the picture for us brilliantly there. Dr. Ambereen Sleemi, thank you so much. I know people appreciate all that you have done, bringing your professionalism and compassion there where it's greatly needed. Thanks so much for your time today with us.

SLEEMI: Thank you very much.

[12:43:00]

WHITFIELD: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A top government official in charge of putting out the country's jobs data has been fired after Friday's disappointing jobs report drew President Trump's ire. Let's discuss now with economist and president of the Budget Lab at Yale University, Natasha Sarin. She was also a counselor to President Biden's Treasury Secretary, Janet Yellen. Natasha, great to see you.

NATASHA SARIN, ECONOMIST: Thanks for having me.

WHITFIELD: So the President was asked whether anyone could trust the jobs numbers after he fired this official. And this was his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going forward, why should anybody trust numbers?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're right. No, you're right. Why should anybody trust numbers? I believe the numbers were phony, just like they were before the election. And there were other times. So you know what I did? I fired her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: I don't know if the reporter got to finish the question, which was trust the numbers before or after the firing. I mean, how should people, how should business leaders, how should lawmakers, et cetera, how can they this point forward now rely on an unemployment or employment data put out by the government?

SARIN: So the thing that I think it's really important to emphasize is that until this moment, I think the right way to think about our government statistics is really that we are the envy of the world with respect to our capacity to collect information in real time about important economic indicators like the state of our labor market.

And it's really a remarkable thing that government statisticians do. They survey all these businesses constantly to try to learn information about the ways in which they're making choices about the types of workers that they bring on. The challenge with that type of a data structure is that invariably you are trying to learn in real time based on businesses who are responding to you.

And so these types of revisions that the President is talking about, the fact that the numbers move up or the numbers move down in particular months, I can't emphasize enough how normal that is. It is incredibly traditional. It is not at all out of the norms for these data, for this type of data to be adjusted that reflects better information that statisticians receive as they continue to learn about the labor market.

[12:50:05]

The only thing that is abnormal here is that the President has taken the totally unheard of action of deciding to fire someone who is not even the person collecting this data. This is the person who's responsible for overseeing the agency and the work of thousands of career economists who are doing an incredible amount of labor to put these numbers together.

WHITFIELD: So let's look at that structure, so to speak, in the report that got under the skin of the President, ruffled his feathers. The jobs report released -- released yesterday said that the jobs numbers for May and June were revised down dramatically by more than a quarter million jobs. May saw just 19,000 new jobs added. June had only 14,000. I mean, huge decreases. The President, you know, is trying to say that these numbers are not accurate, mostly because, you know, he said it. It's -- he doesn't like those numbers, so. So what is your response to not only what he is saying, but I -- I hear you. You do trust the data that has been revealed here. What does this say about the overall economy that, you know, the lack of jobs is response to what? How should people decipher this?

SARIN: What the data are telling us are, frankly, that the tariffs are starting to have a real bite in the economy. And in reality, what we learned yesterday is that we've known that economic growth has been slowing over the course of the last six months as a result of effective tariff rates that today are eight times what they were when the President took office. And there was a bit of a puzzle. The labor market seemed to be chugging along, even though growth was slowing. What we learned yesterday is that the labor market, in fact, has not been chugging along. It has been weakening over the course of the last few months. And that is incredibly expected. The work that I do with my colleagues at the Budget Lab at Yale has been trying to model the impact of these tariffs on the economy.

And what we conclude is that as a result of tariff rates this high, households are going to face thousands of dollars of increased prices. And the economy is going to be smaller because demand is going to be lower. And in fact, that is exactly what we are seeing. We are seeing employment start to taper off. And that is what you would expect from choosing tariff rates this high. So kind of my message for policymakers as they're looking at this data is that not to be frustrated with the data collection process, which, again, is a remarkable feat that this country is able to accomplish, but really to be frustrated with the policies that we're choosing that are getting us to an economy that is slowing, not one that is growing.

WHITFIELD: Are you going to believe the next round of data knowing that this round so upset the President that he removed the chief?

SARIN: You know, I am incredibly disheartened and disappointed by this decision because I hope that we remain a country where we can trust these types of data sources, because, frankly, there is no replacement for this type of data collection. There is no private data infrastructure that exists that can replace what the Bureau of Labor Statistics puts out each month.

But I am pretty worried that we're in an environment where it starts to look like there is politicization of this type of government data, the way it starts to look like there is politicization of the Federal Reserve. And all of that has the impact of making industry, of making consumers, of making other countries, of making the American people, frankly, suspect about the nature of our economic strength, which relies very heavily on these type of infrastructures and makes us weaker, not stronger.

WHITFIELD: All right. Natasha Sarin, thank you so much. I'd love to have you back, especially as the next round of numbers come out. Thank you so much.

SARIN: Thanks so much.

WHITFIELD: All right. The east of this country enjoying a much-needed cool down this weekend with temperatures dropping up to 20 degrees below average. But with that comes rain and flood threats. CNN meteorologist Allison Chinchar with what to expect this weekend.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Again, this cold front right through here, that's what's ushering in all these cooler temperatures. See all of the blue here on the map? That indicates areas where the temperature is actually below normal for a change, even though we are well into August. Some of these areas even starting to see a little bit of purple as we head into the latter half of the weekend. So you look at some of those high temperatures for today, a lot of these areas in the 70s and 80s, many of which would normally be into the 90s by now. Take Charlotte, for example. The average high this time of year is 90 degrees. It will only be 76 today and barely into the 80s over the next few days. Raleigh, very much the same. Every single one of the next few days is expected to be in the low 80s, despite the fact that their average high this time of year is 90 degrees.

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Another area, Atlanta. Average high of 90. Take a look at this. Several days here in the 70s. In fact, some Sunday Monday barely getting into the 70s. Now, it comes with a chance of rain, and that's what's helping to keep a lot of those temperatures on the cool side. So that rain is going to be a concern, especially across portions of the south, which already has very saturated ground, especially from Texas all the way over to the Carolinas.

Now, where you see the yellow blobs on the map here, this is where we have that slight risk for excessive rainfall. Again, several of these areas, like Houston, New Orleans, and even portions of Gulfport, Mississippi, are already dealing with a surplus of rain so far this summer. So even adding something simple to say one to three inches of rain on top of that saturated ground just exacerbates any flooding conditions for these areas.

And you can see throughout the afternoon and the evening hours already having a lot of those storms fire up. They will continue through the overnight hours, especially across the southeast and the central plains. As we go into Sunday, more rain is going to be expected. So this is going to be the thing. It's going to be a multi-day event. So again, even though most of these areas likely only to pick up one to three inches of rain, it's on top of what they've already had the last few days and overall this summer that's leading to that potential for flooding.

WHITFIELD: All right, Allison Chinchar, thanks so much.

So it may be cooling in the east, but out west, scorching. That's bad news for crews struggling to contain the mega fire raging out of control at Grand Canyon National Park. The fire is so intense, it's created its own weather. I'll speak to a team on the ground there, next.

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