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Trial Over Trump's National Guard Deployment in California Starts Tomorrow; Details Emerge from Inside Alligator Alcatraz as Courts Hear Debate; Ukraine Ambassador: Zelenskyy Will Attend Peace Talks of Needed. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired August 10, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Roughly the size of a large pizza. Love that correlation, and now researchers hope the newly exposed riverbanks will reveal even more tracks from these ancient giants. Incredible discoveries!

All right, the new CNN Original Series: "American Prince: JFK, Jr." follows the story and lasting legacy of John F. Kennedy, Jr. From his early years marked by his father's assassination to his iconic love story with Carolyn Bessette, "American Prince: JFK, Jr." airs tonight 10:00 P.M. right here on CNN.

[15:00:34]

Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

And we begin this hour with a major court showdown over President Trump's immigration crackdown and another test of his executive power.

Starting tomorrow, a federal judge will begin hearing arguments in a lawsuit against the Trump administration. California is challenging the legality of President Trump's use of National Guard troops for law enforcement in the state, despite Governor Gavin Newsom's objections.

It all stems from the President deploying those troops in response to protests over his immigration enforcement tactics in the state. CNN's Julia Vargas Jones is joining us right now. Julia, bring us up to speed on this case.

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, this is a case that -- it is really crucial. It is really testing just how far a President can go in deploying the National Guard in U.S. soil. The White House is citing a rarely used law. This is Section 124063 that allows the federalizing of the Guard during a rebellion, invasion, or if the regular forces can't enforce U.S. law.

It is only the second time in history that a President has used this statute in this way, and this lawsuit from California is naming Trump, the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and the Defense Department, arguing, basically that the President had no legal authority in asking the court to block any future deployments without the consent of the governor. Now, the state's legal argument center really on three claims. The

first one is that sending the Guard violated the Posse Comitatus Act, which bars the military from acting as civilian police and that it infringed on California's rights under the 10th Amendment, which gives the state its own rights right -- federalization, and then also the Defense Department's actions broke an administrative law by bypassing the Governor entirely.

Now, Trump's lawyers are saying that the troops, along with the small number of Marines that were deployed here to California, were limiting to just guarding just federal property and personnel, and that they never engaged in policing and that the President had all the right to do that. That was within his powers.

Now, Judge Charles Breyer, who is hearing this case, ruled back in June that the protests didn't quite meet the legal definition of an insurrection and that Trump exceeded his authority that the President's initial memo instructed Secretary Hegseth to coordinate with governors, which he did not do. So he ordered the federal government to return the state's National Guard to the governor, but an appeals court paused that order on that same day, and that allowed the deployment to continue, for now.

Now, nearly two months after that federalization started, 300 National Guard members are still on duty here in Los Angeles. So far, 4,700 have already demobilized. But this trial, beginning tomorrow in San Francisco with proceedings set to go through Wednesday, although that could be extended, Fred, however, that ruling goes, it could set the tone, it could shape how future presidents, Fred, can use military force in U.S. soil.

WHITFIELD: All right, Julia Vargas Jones, thanks so much.

All right, new details are emerging now about the conditions inside a controversial new immigration detention center in the Florida Everglades. It is being dubbed Alligator Alcatraz.

CNN's Rafael Romo spoke with some of the detainees who were held at the facility for new insight into the conditions there. They revealed what it was like to be in there.

Rafael, great to see you.

And how are they able to reveal these details?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Some of them have already been deported out of the country. One of the gentlemen that we interviewed, he is now in Mexico after being deported. There is another gentleman who spoke on the phone with a CNN affiliate, and that's how we were able to get these stories.

But Fred, you may remember that when President Donald trump traveled to the everglades in early July for the reopening of the migrant detention center dubbed Alligator Alcatraz, he said that the facility was intended to house "the most menacing of migrants and some of the most vicious people on the planet." But based on testimonies from migrants who have been held there,

immigrants' rights groups and some political leaders, the only mistake many of those held Alligator Alcatraz have made is overstaying their visas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROMO (voice over): It was meant to be a visit to his brother in the United States to mourn together the recent death of their mother. But Carlos Gonzalez says it turned out to be a nightmare that started with a traffic stop.

[15:05:18]

(CARLOS GONZALES speaking in foreign language.)

ROMO (voice over): He says he was stopped for driving a car with tinted windows and detained. He says he had in his possession a tourist visa and his Mexican passport and driver's license.

After originally being held at a county jail, Gonzalez says he was eventually transferred to the migrant detention center in the Florida Everglades, dubbed Alligator Alcatraz, where he claims he endured harsh conditions, including lack of toiletries, staying inside tents 24/7 with the lights on even at night, five-minute meals, up to 40 people per cell, going to the bathroom with handcuffed hands and switching from hot and humid conditions inside the tents to cold when they turned the air on.

(CARLOS GONZALES speaking in foreign language.)

ROMO: "I see it as a form of torture to all of us there," Gonzalez said.

In a statement, the Department of Homeland Security said that on July 7th, 2025, Florida Highway Patrol arrested illegal aliens Carlos Martin Gonzalez-Meza Cole and Oscar Alejandro Gonzalez-Mesa during a traffic stop near Orlando, Florida.

Carlos was illegally working in the U.S. while here on a tourist visa, and his brother Oscar, overstayed his visa, adding that the vehicle they were in was unregistered and had 212 total violations.

By the time he was stopped, Gonzalez acknowledges he had been in the country four months already because he was trying to get over the painful loss of his mother.

We have heard similar testimonies from relatives of migrants who have been held at Alligator Alcatraz, as well as immigrants' rights groups and elected officials. But White House Border Czar, Tom Homan says detainees are treated with dignity and respect, dismissing claims that treatment at the Everglades detention center is inhumane.

THOMAS HOMAN, U.S. BORDER CZAR: A bunch of crap. I was there, I walked through the detainee facilities. I walked through the medical facilities. I walked through the cafeteria. I had them show me. What did you feed these people today? I saw the lunch what they fed

them. They ate better yesterday than what I am eating today.

ROMO (voice over): Last week, a man speaking by phone from inside Alligator Alcatraz claimed he was on a hunger strike to protest conditions there, along with at least 11 others as reported by CNN affiliate Univision.

(PEDRO LORENZO CONCEPCION speaking in foreign language.)

ROMO (voice over): "I'm not eating another plate of food until my rights as detainee are respected," he reportedly said.

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE speaking in foreign language.)

ROMO (voice over): His wife calls what he and others are going through psychological torture.

Officials at Homeland Security said the reports of a hunger strike inside the facility are false and called them unsubstantiated and inaccurate allegations.

Back in Mexico, Carlos Gonzalez reflects on the multiple days he was detained. A trip to heal from the loss of a loved one, he said, turned into what he calls an arbitrary detention and a violation of his human rights.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMO (on camera): Last month, the American Civil Liberties Union sued the Trump administration over what it calls lack of access to legal counsel for migrants held at the Florida Detention Center, as well as violations of due process. The next hearing on that case is happening on August 18th at a federal court in Miami.

And of course, Fred, we will be following this closely.

WHITFIELD: I know you will.

All right, Rafael Romo, thanks so much.

All right, with just days remaining until President Trump's meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday, diplomats across the U.S. and Europe are scrambling to figure out the details.

European nations are pushing The White House to include Ukraine's President Zelenskyy on that Friday planned peace talks in Alaska. And CNN is learning that Trump has not yet ruled out an invite, something Ukraine's ambassador to the U.S. says Zelenskyy is open to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OKSANA MARKAROVA, UKRAINIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Sometimes diplomacy requires different formats, different meetings, and again, we appreciate President Trump not only pushing for the end of this war, but as you saw, Vice President Vance has been in Europe negotiating, discussing, having this very constructive meetings with our delegation, but also European leaders.

Now, with regard to President Zelenskyy, he has been since day one of this horrible aggression, committed to peace, and we have shown that he is ready to be anywhere to advance the agenda of peace.

So if needed, President Zelenskyy of course, will be present at the meetings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Kevin Liptak is joining us right now live from The White House.

Kevin, what more are you learning?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, there really is now a rush underway, both to get the logistics nailed down for this meeting on Friday in Alaska, but also to get some of the policy parameters, the contours of what these two men will discuss sort of nailed down.

[15:10:12]

And it does appear as if The White House is open to hearing out some of these concerns that you're hearing from European leaders about how exactly this meeting will go down. We saw that play out yesterday.

The Vice President J.D. Vance meeting with European and Ukrainian officials in the English countryside to talk about how they view this meeting. They think that there should be a ceasefire in place before anything else is discussed. They want, when it comes to these territorial concessions there to be a degree of reciprocity and perhaps most urgently, they want Ukraine represented, they want Volodymyr Zelenskyy to be able to help dictate the fate of his own country.

And it does appear as if President Trump is hearing some of those concerns directly. He spoke yesterday with the Finnish President, Alexander Stubb, and we heard earlier today from the German Chancellor, Friedrich Merz, who said that he plans to get President Trump on the phone later today and that it was the hope and assumption of European leaders that Zelenskyy would participate in some form in this meeting on Friday.

Now, when you talk to White House officials, they do say that that has not been ruled out, that President Trump eventually does want to bring President Putin and President Zelenskyy together for some sort of trilateral meeting, but it does seem as if the focus and priority right now is to prepare for that one-on-one between President Trump and President Putin.

Now, we heard earlier today from the NATO Secretary General, Mark Rutte, who is very close to President Trump, he said that it was clear that President Putin would, in his words, test President Trump in this meeting in Alaska on Friday and also talked about the importance of having Zelenskyy eventually at the negotiating table. Listen to more of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL: If Putin is serious, then Putin then has to commit to sit down with Zelenskyy. He cannot do this through President Trump. In the end, it has to be, as President Trump has stated himself, a three-way conversation, at least with the Europeans heavily involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: Now, earlier today, Matthew Whitaker, who is the U.S. Ambassador to NATO, said that it was "possible" that Zelenskyy attends this meeting in Alaska, but saying that no decision had been made. He said there was still time to make that decision.

We also heard from the Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, who was actually on the golf course yesterday with President Trump, who said that he hopes Zelenskyy is part of these discussions, but saying that he would leave it up to the White House.

Now, ultimately, at the end of the day, Ukraine and Zelenskyy will have to be part of any of these negotiations. The White House acknowledges that President Trump cant unilaterally make these land concessions that will ultimately end the war, but it does seem as if the priority right now is to get some of these details nailed down ahead of that very, very critical meeting in Alaska on Friday.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kevin Liptak at The White House, thank you so much.

All right, still to come, the peak of the hurricane season for the Atlantic is just around the corner. We will show you the activity in the Atlantic that could produce the next named storm.

Plus rising prices at the grocery store, causing shoppers to be stressed out, according to a new poll. Are there signs of relief on the way?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:59]

WHITFIELD: All right, we are following extreme weather developments out of the Midwest. A state of emergency was declared across Milwaukee County this afternoon after a round of strong storms and heavy rainfall flooded roads and creeks. This was the scene outside Milwaukee, a torrent of water tearing through town.

Milwaukee saw a month-and-a-half worth of rain in just a matter of hours, setting a new daily record for the region. The National Weather Service issued several flash flood warnings for the area, which will remain in effect until tomorrow.

Milwaukee Fire Department performed about 65 water rescues as hundreds of stranded vehicles blocked flooded intersections as you see right there. Even last night's Brewers game was hit after rain leaked through the stadiums closed roof. Today's game still on, though half the parking lot and surrounding roads around American Family Field are inaccessible.

The Wisconsin State Fair was forced to shut down as well early Saturday, cancelling a performance by Lynyrd Skynyrd. The Fair announced it will not reopen for its final day today.

Meantime, things are heating up in the tropics. Meteorologist Allison Chinchar is tracking the latest developments.

Allison, what are you seeing off the Atlantic coast?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It is that time of year again and the tropics are really starting to heat back up. We are keeping an eye on this particular system that just came off the coast of Africa. It is not doing all that much right now, but the real question becomes what happens when it enters this red shaded area right through here?

The reason for that is that is a much more favorable environment for further development of this, meaning it could become the next named tropical system, likely by the middle portion of the upcoming week. When you take a look at a lot of the models, they really don't do all of that much with it until, say, about Wednesday or Thursday of this week.

But by Saturday you can start to see it begins to finally head towards the Lesser Antilles and continue on its westward track. From there, though, the question becomes where does it go? And at that point, it is just simply too early to tell, but also something to keep a very close eye on, especially because it is going to be going through very warm waters.

[15:20:12]

All of these sea surface temperatures, you see in the yellow and orange shaded areas means that it is actually above average for this time of year. A lot of these areas still in the low to mid 80s, which is the perfect fuel for these tropical systems. Now, where it is forming and where it is headed, is exactly where we would expect it to be in the month of August. This is typically where you have that development for tropical systems. And also right here along the U.S. East Coast.

Now, if this does in fact get named later on this week, the next name on the list is Erin.

WHITFIELD: Allison Chinchar, thanks so much.

All right, in a moment, stress and grocery shopping now going hand in hand for millions of American families. Up next, why it may be a while before we see any price relief.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:23] WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back.

President Trump campaigned on lowering grocery prices back in 2024, but since then, the price for your basic basket of groceries has continued to tick up. Prices were up 2.4 percent in June from the year prior. Not surprisingly, 53 percent of Americans said food prices were a major stress in a recent poll. And all of that means we are paying closer attention to our food bills.

Let's bring in Phil Lempert. He is the founder of SupermarketGuru.com. Phil, great to see you.

So how much you know, are we talking about when we are talking about higher costs and how are they being absorbed by grocery stores? How much is being passed along to shoppers?

PHIL LEMPERT, FOUNDER, SUPERMARKETGURU.COM: Well, Fred, if you take a look, you know, that number of 2.4 percent, that's over a month. But since, you know 2020, food prices are up about 25 percent. So that's really the number that we need to be looking at and frankly, you know, when we look at grocers who work on about 1.5 percent net profit, they can't absorb anything.

What we are seeing is we are seeing some manufacturers play that shrinkflation game where, you know, they are taking smaller size packages, putting less ingredients in them, but charging the same thing or more.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Nobody likes that. Right, and nobody likes that. I think we are all seeing that as we open up a bag of chips or whatever.

So as consumers look for value, are they flocking to certain brands or stores because specifically the Aldi Store, a German grocery store chain that now has 2,500 U.S. stores is actually planning to expand by hundreds more stores. Is that formula working? Is that what that is indicative of?

LEMPERT: Absolutely. And also keep in mind that what Aldi does is they sell about 90 percent of the products under their own brands. It is very efficient, very high quality. I have actually even been in their test kitchens, talked to the people who come up with the recipes, very high quality and what is happening is they are now really attracting millennials and Generation Z who are very, very food involved.

And last year alone, Aldi added 19 million new customers. So clearly, people are shopping for value. They are shopping for, you know, the best quality that they can get, which is why retailers like Aldi and other ones are really doing well versus the traditional supermarket.

WHITFIELD: I mean, some companies say people are, you know, buying smaller sizes of items. They prefer that. They are eating more meals at home. So is that that actually good news for grocery stores?

LEMPERT: Well, no. It is not good news for them, but also throw into it the number of people who are on GLP-1 and that's changing their whole way of eating. So they are eating smaller sizes. They are eating more protein. So the supermarket business right now is really in a sea of change and they are really trying to struggle how do you compete with Aldi? How do you compete with people changing their behaviors, eating smaller products? And then, you know, keep in mind, we haven't even really talked about the impact of imported foods with the tariffs and how those prices are going to continue to rise.

WHITFIELD: Well, let's talk about that now.

They are going to continue to rise. They're already up. You know, we are not just you know, talking about, in a small way, but in a rather significant way.

LEMPERT: Very significant. You look at this 50 percent tariff on Brazil that's going to affect our coffee. It is going to, you know, affect our sugar cane. It is going to affect our meats.

I mean -- and then you look at Canada again with very high tariffs. Most of our aluminum comes from tariffs. So every soda can, every beer can is going to be affected in it.

Food prices, you know, even though we are saying they're up 24 percent, they are going to go up even higher because of all of these tariffs, and we are also starting to see companies, imported companies saying they don't want to sell in America. They would rather open up new markets in Asia and other places rather than dealing with the tariffs.

So we are going to have shortages as well.

WHITFIELD: Oh, boy! Phil Lempert, thank you for the inspiration. Food usually makes me very excited, but dang! I don't know right now. This is really depressing, but we must eat and we have to find ways to make it work.

But we so appreciate your expertise.

LEMPERT: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much.

LEMPERT: Always a pleasure.

[15:30:08]

WHITFIELD: All right, still to come, some doctors say new laws are limiting the access women have to health care in some parts of the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A maternity care desert is hitting Idaho, where a new study found a drop in more than one-third of obstetricians. "The Journal of the American Medical Association Shows" that Idaho lost 35 percent of its OB-GYNs since the state banned almost all abortions in August of 2022.

[15:35:14]

The study found 114 of the 268 providers stopped practicing obstetrics, left the state, closed their practices within the state or retired. Despite 20 new recruits, only 174 now serve roughly one million women in the state.

Under Idaho law, physicians can provide abortions only if the mother's life is in danger or in cases of rape or incest. Beyond that, doctors could lose their license, face felony charges, and get up to five years in prison.

Joining me right now for more perspective is Idaho OB-GYN, Dr. Megan Kasper. Doctor, great to see you.

Do the findings of this study fall in line with what you and your colleagues are seeing?

DR. MEGAN KASPER, IDAHO OB-GYN: Yes, absolutely. This was an exciting study to come out because it really defined and quantified what our day-to-day experiences have been.

WHITFIELD: So how have you had to change your practice to kind of meet the needs of the women?

KASPER: Yes, there have been a lot of moving pieces all over the state, fewer physicians. And so, a couple of things have happened. I think all of us are busier. We are working more hours, seeing more patients.

In my area, we had a couple of other, situations happen with medical groups closing. A couple of large OB-GYN groups had closed for reasons related to their, their medical groups, and so there is kind of some shuffling around.

My group now -- I was in one of those groups that closed, and so I opened up my own practice, which was a very quick, very challenging situation. I have myself and four nurse midwives that work with me and that has been something that a lot of groups have started to use is recruiting nurse midwives, and other non-physicians to help meet the need.

We also -- Idaho has a very strong Family Medicine legacy here and our Family Medicine colleagues do provide -- they've always provided a significant amount of maternity care and they have also increased their volume of maternity care in their practices.

WHITFIELD: So even, after having adapted in many ways, it sounds like you have successfully found a way to do so, what concerns you most, however, for patients needing care in the state?

KASPER: I think the main thing is this is not sustainable. Our population continues to grow. We've lost a significant number of physicians. The political environment, the laws make it very challenging to recruit new physicians, right, physicians looking at jobs, they can go work anywhere in the country and, and even the most conservative OB-GYN is going to look at Idaho laws and say, all right, I can go work there and be, you know, worried in the middle of the night about whether I can intervene in a complication, in a timely fashion. Or I could go take a job in another state and never have to worry about it.

And so, it is very difficult to recruit, and so I think just the sustainability of the workload is very concerning. This is something we can do for a short period of time, but we do need to make it better. It is also concerning for some of the geographic distances, you know, even I am in the Boise Metro area outside of Boise, a little bit, about 30 minutes, and even here, we are seeing patients driving longer distances, either for just their clinic visits or certainly driving longer distances for hospital services.

WHITFIELD: Are they going as far as actually leaving the state, some of these patients to try and get care that they feel like they can't get?

KASPER: So for some complications, patients have had to leave the state. I think for basic maternity care, I think most women are trying to do that, you know, as close to where they live as possible for many reasons. So it has mostly been some of those, more unusual complications. But our high risk OB colleagues, our Maternal Fetal Medicine colleagues have had to send some women outside of the state either because of what is allowed, what kind of intervention is allowed in the state or capacity issues.

[15:40:17]

We've had some capacity issues recently where our hospitals were full and we had to start making decisions about, you know, did we need to send women out of state?

WHITFIELD: So you and your colleagues are talking, are you hearing feedback from your patients? What are they telling you?

KASPER: Our patients are telling us that it takes a long time to get in, to see, a physician. A lot of practices are full. They're capping the number of deliveries. If you're pregnant and you're due, say, in October, and you call to make a prenatal appointment and the practice will say, oh, we are full. We already have -- we've maxed out on our due dates for October, so we are full.

And so then some women are needing to call several different practices to find an appointment. And then Gynecology is also a problem, right, because OB-GYNs are not just taking care of maternity care, they are also taking care of women with female health problems. So a woman who is 60 and having a problem that she needs to see a gynecologist for, now, she is having to wait, you know, some new GYN appointments are three or four months out and that's a new problem for us.

WHITFIELD: That could exacerbate -- waiting that long can potentially exacerbate a problem that needs to be addressed more immediately.

KASPER: Yes.

WHITFIELD: All right, Dr. Megan Kasper, all the best to you and your colleagues and your patients having to navigate a very difficult landscape right now.

KASPER: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, still to come, a British aid worker is in limbo in Syria after his British citizenship was revoked. He says it was over a diplomatic double standard.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:49]

WHITFIELD: All right, new today, after more than a decade of conflict and devastation, Syria is set to begin the process of rebuilding. Neighboring Jordan says it will host a meeting on Tuesday to discuss ways to support the war-torn country, including investment deals with international companies.

Jordan's Foreign Ministry says officials from the U.S. and Syria are expected to attend.

And in Syria, after the fall of dictator Bashar al-Assad, western journalists are now allowed into the country. That gave CNN's Clarissa Ward a chance to catch up with a humanitarian aid worker from London who has been stuck in Syria because he was stripped of his British citizenship.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Since 2012, British aid worker Tauqir Sharif, known to many as Tox, has been a fixture in Northern Syria, one of thousands of foreigners known as Muhajirun who came to Syria to participate in the uprising against the brutal dictatorship of Bashar al-Assad.

We sat down with Tox for breakfast at his home in the city of Azaz by the Turkish border.

WARD (on camera): Were you always an aid worker? Were you involved in the armed component of the uprising as well?

TAUQIR SHARIF, AID WORKER: So I would say I was always a humanitarian.

WARD: But you're like smiling while you're saying that.

SHARIF: Because a humanitarian encompasses many things, right? Saving lives. So sometimes in order to save lives, you have to, you know, fight and defend people. So when I say that I am an all-out fighter, no, that wasn't my, you know, bread and butter, I wasn't fighting in battles every single day.

But during the course of this conflict, I had to fight and that was because I had to defend people that were around me. I had to defend aid that was being delivered to, you know, oppressed people. And I am not shy about saying that. I mean, if I was a fighter, if that was my gig where I was fighting and I was a military commander, I would be very proud of that. WARD (voice over): We first met Tox in 2016, in rebel held Idlib

Province.

SHARIF: We need to look at what do the people really want? And if the people are Muslims, this is not me saying it, if the people are Muslims and they want some form of Islamic governance, then it is important that we help them to establish that.

WARD (on camera): Is that what they want?

SHARIF: In my opinion, that's what I believe.

WARD (voice over): One year later, Tox was stripped of his British citizenship.

WARD (on camera): Why did the British government take away your passport?

SHARIF: That's the question that we all want to know the answer to.

WARD What's the official reason that you've been given?

SHARIF: The official reason was aligned to a group that is aligned to al-Qaeda.

WARD (voice over): Tox denies the charges, saying he has always maintained independence while pointing out that the former leader of al-Qaeda's affiliate in Syria, Ahmed al-Sharaa, is now the country's president.

WARD (on camera): Does it strike you as bizarre or maybe even unfair? Surreal? I don't know, you choose the word, that President al-Sharaa is leading the country. He is meeting with western leaders, and yet you are not even able to go back to your home because you had your passport taken away, because you were aligned with a group that was aligned with al-Qaeda. Right?

[15:50:10]

I mean, that's a tenuous, nebulous connection.

SHARIF: Yes, yes. Guilty by association with a degree of separation.

WARD: And association with a man who is now the president of Syria. So --

SHARIF: Who had clear ties -- someone who had clear ties, who was a part of al-Qaeda is now legitimate, whereas people like myself are, you know, still in limbo.

WARD: And you're not the only one.

SHARIF: Of course. Yes.

WARD: I mean, there's -- SHARIF: Yes, there are others. Of course, I think hundred percent, it

is hundred percent unfair, but this is the world we live in, right? I mean, look, these are the double standards and the hypocrisies of the West, right?

You come out to help Syrians free themselves of oppression from Bashar al-Assad, you are stateless. You go and fight in the IDF, be a part of an army that is being accused of genocide, of war crimes, and you can come back to the U.K. You have no questioning, you have no issues at all, no inquest.

Those are blatant double standards and they are problems.

WARD: With that in mind, we see now Syria moving closer to the West.

What was your reaction when you saw President al-Sharaa and President Trump meeting and not just yours, but like your community, let's say, the other Muhajirun, the foreigners and be honest.

SHARIF: Look, I think me as a muhajir, I am a bit of an anomaly. So my position is way more nuanced. Look, I understand that this was a political victory. It wasn't a military victory. So concessions were going to have to be made, obviously, where people are upset is when it comes to the Israel-Palestine issue because obviously signing the Abraham Accords and stuff like that.

WARD: As Trump actually asked President al-Sharaa to do.

SHARIF: Yes. That is something that people are obviously very upset about, not just Muhajirun. I think most Syrians and most people in -- most people in the Arab world, you know, don't like the idea of that. The other thing that people are uncertain of is, okay, are Muhajirun going to be given citizenship, et cetera? What's their status going to be?

WARD (voice over): Syria has started absorbing thousands of foreign fighters into the army, but many others remain stateless. While some hardliners grumble that the country is not moving in the right direction, Tox is more optimistic.

WARD (on camera); Driving around Damascus, there are billboards everywhere saying thank you, President Trump.

SHARIF: Yes.

WARD: Lifting the sanctions, normalizing relations. Do you want to say thank you to President Trump?

SHARIF: Thank you, President Trump.

I mean, look, I mean, its politics, isn't it? It is politics, right? It's politics. Again, I am not a politician. So you know, I mean, Trump said he is going to bring peace to the Middle East. Let's hope that the Palestine issue can be solved. Syria seems to be in a better place. And, you know, if Trump Had a hand in that and, you know, there was

some good intention there, then you know what? Then that's a praiseworthy thing, right? But at the end of the day, politics is about power, right? And we will see, only time will tell. Only time will tell where Syria is going to go.

WARD (on camera): Now, Tox's views are actually pretty moderate in the context of some of the more hardline foreigners inside Syria. I spoke to one westerner there who said that he felt outraged and ashamed by President al-Sharaa's meeting with president trump. We did, of course, reach out to the U.K. Home Office as well to ask about Tox's case. They didn't give any specific details relating to him, but said simply, "Deprivation of citizenship only happens after careful consideration of the facts and in accordance with international law, and always comes with a right of appeal."

Clarissa Ward, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, tonight on "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, CNN's David Culver has a rare look into a country that was once known as a popular tourist destination in South America, but is now plunged into violence because of the drug war. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR US NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They've just kicked it in. They've just kicked the throttle up here. They've got eyes on -- oh, I think its these two boats, actually.

CULVER (voice over): Ecuador's coastline stretches for almost 1,400 miles along the Pacific, just offshore from Manta, we are pulled into action faster than we expected.

CULVER (on camera): We were meeting with one of the commanders here, asking a little bit about this potential embed. When suddenly they got information that there were two boats leaving from a nearby port, and on those boats, they believe gasoline and drugs.

CULVER (voice over): They call this the Narco Superhighway and you can think of Manta as the on ramp.

From here, shipments flow out to the U.S. and Europe. The cocaine itself doesn't originate in Ecuador, though. It pours in from Colombia in the north and Peru in the south. Those are the world's top cocaine producers. Ecuador has become the transit hub, a traffickers gateway to the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: This all-new episode of "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, "Ecuador: The Narco Superhighway," one whole hour, one whole story airs tonight, 9:00 Eastern only CNN. [16:00:20]