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Warmer Waters Lead To Rise In Dangerous Bacteria; Community Gathers, Grieves After Deadly Minneapolis Shooting; China Kicks Off Major Security Summit; California Dems Approve Redistricting Plan After Texas Passes GOP-Drawn Maps; No Discussion Of Peace Talks At Israeli Security Cabinet Meeting; Trump-Fueled CDC Chaos Sparks Concerns Over Vaccines, Public Health; "Presidential Exemption" Allows Trump To Avoid Conflict-Of-Interest Law. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired August 31, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:59:46]
DR. DANIEL EDNEY, STATE HEALTH OFFICER, MISSISSIPPI: The warmer, the better. It incubates really well, you know, with the heat so that it doesn't get too hot for it.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Like many people, Lacey doesn't know when or where she actually contracted the bacteria. But she does know this -- that little pathogen changed her life forever.
LACEY PEPPER, FLESH-EATING BACTERIA SURVIVOR: It was a nightmare. I mean, it was just a nightmare. I just -- I don't wish it on nobody.
GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X and on TikTok @JakeTapper. You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of "THE LEAD", you can listen to the show once you get your podcasts.
The news continues now on CNN.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
And we begin this hour with new details out of Minneapolis, where a Catholic community is trying to heal after their place of worship became the scene of unspeakable tragedy last week.
This morning's mass for the Annunciation Catholic Church was held in the school auditorium, just steps away from where Wednesday's deadly shooting left two students dead. The shooter fired through the church's stained-glass windows at students in prayer.
The victims: eight-year-old Fletcher Merkel and ten-year-old Harper Moyski; 18 others were wounded, including 15 students and three elderly parishioners. CNN correspondent Leigh Waldman is following the developments for us.
Leigh, what was the message at mass this morning?
LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Fred, as you can imagine, a very somber, grief-filled mass again this morning. Same message that we saw last night from Father Dennis there. And he was telling the congregation there to sit in their feelings of grief and to lean on their faith and also to lean on their community.
You mentioned this is happening, taking place today in the school's auditorium, not far from where the shooting actually happened at the Catholic church there. That Catholic church sanctuary still closed because it's still a crime scene.
We were there in Minneapolis. We saw the stained-glass windows covered, boarded-up, where that shooter fired through killing those two. kids and wounding 18 others.
But take a listen to what the Father had to say to this congregation this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FATHER DENNIS ZEHREN, PASTOR, ANNUNCIATION CATHOLIC CHURCH: We're afraid. Jesus says, I know. Just wait here with me. Just be here with me.
And that was the very same message when that first bullet came through the window. And the voices cried out, down, get down, get to the lowest place and stay down. And it was hard. And we didn't want to be there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALDMAN: And we know hearing from the Father yesterday when he spoke to reporters before that mass began he said that when those first shots came through he desperately wanted to do anything that he could to get between those children and the danger that was coming for them.
We know that the parish offices are going to open on Tuesday. But at this point, Fred, there's no word on when the school session will resume.
WHITFIELD: And of course, there are calls for action coming in from as far away as the Vatican. What can you tell us about that?
WALDMAN: Yes. Pope Leo speaking to people today, talking about the tragedy that happened in Minneapolis, saying that something more needs to be done, action needs to be taken to prevent what he called almost a plague of gun violence that's lasting throughout the United States.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE LEO XIV, ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH: We include in our prayers the countless children killed and injured every day around the world. Let us plead God to stop the pandemic of arms, large and small, which infects our world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALDMAN: And that call to action, Fred, is something that we've continued to hear after the wake of this shooting.
The mayor in Minneapolis calling for thoughts and prayers, but action to be taken. It's something that Governor Tim Walz said as well. It's something that was set in an intention this morning to the congregation from the mass that was held there this morning.
WHITFIELD: Leigh Waldman, thanks so much.
All right. Happening right now, a major security summit is happening in China. Leaders from around two dozen countries, including Russia and India, are attending. China's President Xi Jinping is taking the spotlight as he looks to reshape the world order away from the U.S. and western dominance.
While President Trump won't be in China for any of this week's gatherings, his presence looms over many of the conversations at these meetings.
[14:04:48]
WHITFIELD: Preparations are underway for a major military parade in Beijing following the summit on Wednesday, which will also be attended by North Korea's Kim Jong-un.
CNN's Ivan Watson has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: China is getting a chance to flex its diplomatic muscles at the 25th summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization with world leaders gathering right now in that vast building over there.
The founding members of the organization -- Russia and China -- their key buzzwords going into this are their calls for a multipolar world order. They've long complained about the U.S. and its dominance over the globe really, since the end of the Cold War. And they're getting a chance now to kind of present an alternative as they gather countries together here.
Xi Jinping, the Chinese leader, in comments -- he talked about chaos in the world, saying that the world today is swept by once-in-a- century transformations that the international situation is both fluid and chaotic, though no mention of the fact that his close partner, Russian President Vladimir Putin, is responsible partly for a lot of this, with his ongoing war in Ukraine and the nightly bombardment of Ukrainian cities.
Putin has, of course, arrived here in China a bit more than two weeks after his own face-to-face talks in Alaska with the U.S. President Donald Trump.
Another key presence here is the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Still stinging from the 50 percent tariffs that the Trump administration slapped on India just a number of days ago, with experts arguing that the hard line the Trump administration has taken on India has kind of turbocharged a resumption of relations between India and China, two neighbors that in 2020 began fighting deadly skirmishes along their disputed borders together.
Well, in the face-to-face meeting today between Xi Jinping and Narendra Modi, Xi said that India was making the right choice to basically try to be friendlier with China. Take a listen to what Modi had to say.
NARENDRA MODI, INDIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): After the disengagement on the border and atmosphere of peace and stability has been created, our special representatives have reached an agreement regarding border management.
The interests of 2.8 billion people in both our countries are tied to our cooperation. This will also pave the way for the welfare of humanity. We are committed to taking our relations forward on the basis of mutual trust and respect.
WATSON: So in this time of global uncertainty, at a time when the Trump administration has blown up a lot of global free trade and has been attacking some of the U.S.'s traditional allies, this is an opportunity for China's leader, Xi Jinping, to present his country as a more stable and reliable partner, even as he's promoting an alternative to a western-led world order.
Ivan Watson, CNN -- Tianjin, China.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: All right, let's continue this conversation now. Bobby Ghosh is a journalist and geopolitics analyst. He's also a former senior editor at Bloomberg. Great to see you, Bobby.
So I'm wondering if you view President Trump's actions on the world stage, in any way, kind of shifting the dynamics of the global leadership and power?
BOBBY GHOSH, JOURNALIST AND GEOPOLITICS ANALYST: Well, to pick up from that segment you just showed, Modi is a good example of that, right? He's a good example of what happens when you put too much faith in your friendship with Donald Trump; and too much -- make your economy too dependent on the United States.
Six months ago, Indian diplomats were celebrating the fact that Trump was president. They were -- they were portraying Modi as being Trump's main man in Asia. There was a lot of talk of these two great democracies, United States and India, joining together as a force for good in Asia and in the world at large. And look where Modi is today. He's having to play third banana to
people like Putin and Xi Jinping at a summit where democratic leaders are very thin on the ground. And instead he's having to rub shoulders with countries that are hostile to his own, including China and Pakistan and Iran.
And all of this because he didn't do what Donald Trump wanted him to do. And to a substantial part, it had to do with not acknowledging Trump as a peacemaker, not nominating Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize. And basically contradicting Trump, who claimed that he had solved and brought peace between India and Pakistan.
[14:09:48]
GHOSH: It's whimsical. It is shortsighted but Modi finds himself with no other options. You know, where he thought --
WHITFIELD: And that's a big moment wasn't it.
(CROSSTALKING)
GHOSH: -- wouldn't be -- in Washington. He is now having to kowtow in Tianjin before the Chinese leader.
WHITFIELD: But that was a big moment, wasn't it, for India to say, let's offer some clarity about the conflict and whether President Trump was indeed a peacemaker, helped, you know, bring about a ceasefire.
I mean, was that for Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, and I guess by indirectly or maybe it was even directly putting the American president in his place.
GHOSH: Well, they would celebrate that. They would certainly if they -- if the opportunities arise, they will congratulate Narendra Modi for having, in their view, stood up to Donald Trump.
But the Indian economy doesn't benefit from any of that. The Indian economy suffers from that. You could argue that had he been more accommodating towards Trump, this 50 percent tariffs may or may not have been enforced.
They may have been -- we've seen Trump do this elsewhere, threaten tariffs and then when the leaders of those countries do as he pleases, he either postpones or lowers those tariffs.
That could have happened. It would have benefited the Indian economy. It would have benefited the majority of people in India. So, you know, Modi is in this really impossible place where his country and his economy depends enormously on the United States.
But he's having to deal with an American president who has a very, very fragile ego and very thin-skinned and would take even the slightest deviation from his view as a kind of affront, as a kind of insult. And so he finds himself in this place. WHITFIELD: And then prominently in all the pictures that we've been
showing, you also see Vladimir Putin. And by the way, he'll be staying in China for the entire four days of the gathering. That's unusual for him based on his style of wanting to kind of drop in and out.
So in your view, what is his goal?
GHOSH: Well, Putin has no other really important friends in the world. You know, Xi Jinping is his main backer. Now his, again his country's economy depends very heavily on the Chinese economy. He depends on China as a -- as a -- as a country that buys fuel from him, but also provides him with economic and diplomatic cover.
And so he basically has to serve at the -- he has to please Xi Jinping. And so if it pleases Xi Jinping to have Putin stay there for four days, well, then he's going to have to do that.
As you say, Putin does not like to stay away from Moscow one moment longer than he absolutely has to. And so this is a big signal. The fact that he's staying there shows who's the dominant player in that relationship. And it is Xi Jinping.
WHITFIELD: Fascinating. All right. Bobby Ghosh, always great to see you. Thank you so much.
GHOSH: Any time.
W1; All right. Still ahead, chaos at the CDC. With the agency's director forced out and top officials resigning, what does this mean for the future of the agency?
Plus, Israel's security cabinet is reviewing plans to seize control of Gaza City. A doctor who just returned from Gaza joins me with what he saw on the ground.
And Democrats in California could redraw congressional maps of a Republican stronghold if voters approve of the plans. How they're reacting to the move, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I voted for the Independent districting, but we have to fight fire with fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:13:21]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: In California, the campaign to add more Democratic congressional seats in that state is intensifying. The effort, led by Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom, is looking to change the congressional map to change seats in the state from red to blue.
The move is aimed at countering new congressional maps in Texas, which could give Republicans five additional seats in congress.
CNN's Julia Vargas Jones is joining us right now. Julia, bring us up to speed on this new campaign to convince voters to get on board with this map change.
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the campaign is very much underway already, Fred. And they don't have a lot of time. The election will be in November. If it goes through, dozens of districts will be affected from the border with Oregon to the border with Mexico. All of this for Democrats, as they hope to add those five seats.
Now, we went to the 48th district. It's close to Los Angeles, close to San Diego. It is a district that is historically Republican, but could flip if this goes through.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: In California's race to counter Texas, San Diego County is a big prize.
Where are we?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're in Escondido, which you might call it the capital of North County San Diego. And this is Friday night. It's a regular routine during the summer.
The town will be filled with antique cars, and it brings out people who wish they had won.
JONES: This southern slice of the state stands to be most affected if voters approve an extraordinary mid-decade drive to redraw district lines that could add up to five Democratic seats in Congress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
JONES: Local Republicans like Garvin Walsh call it a power grab.
GARVIN WALSH, BOARD MEMBER, SAN DIEGO COUNTY REPUBLICAN: It's not a question of fairness towards Republicans. It's a question of, you know principle and playing by the rules and they're not doing that.
[14:19:53]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's happening --
JONES: Earlier in August, the initiative passed a California legislature, a tit for tat redistricting push to offset expected Republican gains in Texas.
Republican assembly member Carl DeMaio is vowing to take the fight to the polls.
CARL DEMAIO, REPUBLICAN ASSEMBLY MEMBER: A lot of what our campaign will be focusing on is getting the truth to voters, making sure that they understand that these lines were drawn by the politicians. These lines are not about fairness.
JONES: California's 48th district is A Republican stronghold, stretching from just east of Orange County, all the way down to the Mexican border. The newly-proposed lines would take out some of the reddest parts of San Diego County and add in liberal-leaning Palm Springs voters, which could give Democrats an edge in the midterms.
Much like in Texas, support for redistricting here in California is split along partisan lines. These people here are fully in favor of Governor Gavin Newsom's efforts to redistrict California.
They're saying they don't care this is a political move. It's along the lines of their belief system.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I voted for the Independent districting, but we have to fight fire with fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is simply to counteract what's going on and try to make sure that Trump does not wield control over Congress.
JONES: At the forefront of this fight is Democrat Ammar Campa-Najjar.
Twice he's run in this part of the state and lost. The last time was in 2020 against longtime Republican Congressman Darrell Issa. But Campa-Najjar is hoping the new borders will help push him across the finish line in 2026.
AMMAR CAMPA-NAJJAR (D), CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Great turnout on November 4th for the ballot measure.
We have to win this ballot initiative. Once we get into office, we could raise the bar and hopefully fight for a national independent commission like we have here. But if we're the only ones doing it, were at a disadvantage.
JONES: Back on the main drag, these cars are parked right at the current district's border. New maps would fold all of these blocks into the new 48th.
WALSH: They're making it more difficult, but I don't think we're going to give up.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: And Fred, the biggest hurdle for Democrats now will be to get voters to show up to the polls. You know, turnout for special elections is historically low. So Governor Gavin Newsom and California Democrats will have to sell this as a worthwhile fight for Californians to participate in.
WHITFIELD: Really important to hear those points of view. Julia Vargas Jones, thanks so much.
All right. Still ahead, Israel escalating strikes as it pushes ahead with its plan to take over Gaza City. An American doctor who just left Gaza joins me to discuss what he saw on the ground, next. [14:22:39]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: New today, Israel's security cabinet is holding a meeting discussing plans for a planned takeover of Gaza city. Two senior Israeli officials tell CNN that ongoing negotiations on ending the war in Gaza are not part of the meeting.
A source tells CNN, Israel is set to stop all airdrops over Gaza City ahead of its major military offensive there. And it's also going back to reducing the entry of relief trucks. More than 300 people have died of starvation inside Gaza since the war began in 2023.
On the cusp of this major offensive, let's hear from someone who was just there assisting and working there in Gaza. American Dr. Irfan Ali is a family medicine doctor and anesthesia specialist based in Dallas. He's just returned last week from volunteering at the al-Ahli hospital in Gaza City. It's one of the few remaining functioning hospitals in Gaza.
Doctor, good to see you. So I wonder if you can kind of paint a picture for us. What kinds of conditions did you prepare yourself for before you went there? And then what did you see?
DR. IRFAN ALI, FAMILY MEDICINE DOCTOR: Yes. Thank you very much for having me on the show.
Yes, this was not my first trip. This was my third trip. And we have been to other conflict zones as well in the war zones. But honestly speaking, every time we go to Gaza, we feel like it's not going to -- it can't be worse. But next time when we go, it's even worse than this time.
This time, the sharp and the most striking thing was the starvation and hunger. I was not able to recognize most of the staff, the nursing staff, the anesthesia staff, the doctors who I met like a year ago. And that's -- we are talking about the doctors.
But if you're talking about the people on the street, the lower middle class, everyone has lost 50 to 60 kilograms of weights. And when these people come to the hospital for surgeries, they really have no reserves.
And in the hospital, the situation is dire. You know, we were working most of the time with our cell phone through the lights. There is no electricity. There is significant shortage of medications, antibiotics and the system is completely collapsed.
And these guys are working nonstop with no food, no water, no electricity and no medication, unfortunately.
WHITFIELD: My goodness. And I mean, from the patients to the staff, I mean, you just let us know how this starvation and lack of food and nourishment is impacting everybody. And then on a professional basis, as an -- as an anesthesia, you know,
specialist, you would typically play a part in sedating or providing pain relief through medicine before and after surgeries. I mean, that's customary, right?
[14:29:51]
WHITFIELD: So what instead were the challenges in being able to administer any of that.
ALI: Yes. I think the biggest challenge over there was just to get through the surgery without kind of killing them through anesthesia, because there's definitely no pain medications available.
The anesthetics, which are available, are minimal. But then the thing is that when the light goes off, the ventilators are off. There are no monitors to check on the patient. So you're just relying on your very basic instincts. So, it's really, really heartbreaking.
And then the sterility, there is really no sterility because there are flies all over. The wounds have -- we saw multiple wounds with maggots crawling and walking around in it? And it's just heartbreaking to see the condition that even in 2025, in this day and age, we have thrown them into a stone age, unfortunately.
WHITFIELD: My goodness. And then with those hardships, you. I wonder if you ever thought about your own life, you know, or that of all the people who were there, because just recently, the Nasser Hospital in Gaza was targeted, people died, as a result of military strikes there. Was -- did that ever cross your mind that potentially the hospital where you all are working, trying to save lives, also preserve your own, you know, that it would be targeted to?
ALI: Yeah. That's why, honestly speaking, whenever someone asked me for it and then they asked for the they want to go to Gaza and the next question they asked me about safety. And I tell them that if you are concerned about safety, then don't go because honestly speaking, there is no safety.
When we were in Gaza City, this hospital, one of the remaining few hospitals in that area, and there was -- there was a strike while we were there, and there were eight people who died right in front of us. And there was not a moment when there were no airstrikes or bombing or anything happening. But honestly speaking me and the friend of group of friends who went, we have been on multiple of these trips on war zone and conflict zone, and we all believe then that none of us can escape our death.
When my time comes, whether I'm in Dallas, Texas or D.C. or Gaza, my time comes. There is no way I can escape it. So, you have to have that mindset to go into those areas.
WHITFIELD: You've been there three times. Do you see you and your fellow medical friends returning to that area anytime soon?
ALI: We can't wait to be back. Absolutely. It's always heartbreaking. Like you come out, but mentally, emotionally, and your heart and soul is back there because, you know that being a foreign physician over there, you might be providing some kind of protection to the hospital staff, some kind of shelter or immunity to the people over there.
But you know that as soon as you leave, all bets are off. And you also know that what kind of condition you're going to leave them behind. So, it's always heartbreaking. And you come out with a very, very heavy heart. And, we really -- me and my friends, we can't wait to go back.
WHITFIELD: Mm-hmm. Well, Dr. Irfan Ali, thank you so much for sharing. Just incredible courage and passion for trying to assist in all ways that you can. Thank you so much.
ALI: Thank you very much. Thanks a lot for having me. Appreciate that.
WHITFIELD: Coming up, your COVID vaccine could be harder to get this year. The new changes on who can and cannot get the vaccine and how much it just might cost you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:38:01]
WHITFIELD: All right. This week's chaos at the Centers for Disease Control is renewing concerns over the growing divisions on how the country conducts public health policy and political influence over science. After clashing with HHS Secretary Robert Kennedy, Jr. over vaccine policy, the director of the CDC was fired by President Trump. This led to other top officials at the agency to resign in protest.
CNN's Rafael Romo is at the CDC headquarters in Atlanta.
Rafael, we're hearing from some of these employees who resigned. What are they saying?
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Fred.
Well, not only has the last week been rough for CDC employees with the ousting of their agency's leader and the resignations of top leadership, it's also been a difficult year when you consider mass layoffs, budget cuts and even a shooting targeting these buildings behind me, the CDC's main headquarters here in Atlanta.
Just a few days ago, CDC Director Susan Monarez was ousted after only one month on the job after she clashed over vaccine policy with Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., as you mentioned, who has espoused anti-vaccine views for many years. Monarez also refused to fire several CDC leaders, according to sources familiar with what happened.
Her dismissal, Fred, helped prompt the resignations of several other members of the CDCs leadership, including its chief medical officer, who walked out of the building Thursday to the sound of loud cheers and applause from other employees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. DEBRA HOURY, FORMER CDC CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER UNDER PRES. TRUMP: We have learned a lot from COVID, and we were prepared. Unfortunately, having lost over 2,000 staff and not having our scientific leadership, almost all of the scientific leaders at CDC, myself included, are now no longer at CDC.
So, we're losing that bench. And with a projected budget cuts, we will not be ready for the next pandemic. I'm concerned.
[14:40:00]
DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR UNDER PRES. OBAMA: What we're seeing is unprecedented. There has never been a firing of a CDC director. Public health is under assault. And as Dr. Houry says, it's no longer possible to have any confidence in what's coming out of HHS or CDC. What we see is a pattern -- deny, distract, destroy. They deny simple truths and plain facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMO: And, Fred, the bad news for CDC employees doesn't end with the resignations. Last week, at least 600 CDC employees received permanent termination notices, according to the American Federation of Government Employees. Also, those who remain have been told to return to the office on September 15th. That will be a little over a month after a gunman attacked the agency's Atlanta campus, firing more than 500 shots and killing a police officer before dying of a self- inflicted gunshot wound.
Fred, now back to you.
WHITFIELD: Our Rafael Romo, thank you so much at the CDC.
All right, meantime, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration announced last week updated guidelines surrounding this year's COVID vaccine.
Here's where things stand. The FDA has approved the vaccines for a limited group of people. Adults ages 65 and older, and younger people who are at an increased risk of severe COVID-19. That could be due to an underlying health condition, for instance.
But for healthy people who don't fall into either of those groups, well, you may have to get a doctor's prescription to receive the shot, and it's still not clear whether your insurance will even cover it.
So far, the vast majority of COVID vaccinations have happened at pharmacies, but because of state level regulations, some pharmacies may not offer the vaccines anymore.
I want to bring into the discussion now, Dr. Chris Parnell. She's a fellow at the American College of Preventive Medicine and the director of the NAACP Center for Health Equity.
Dr. Pernell, great to see you again.
DR. CHRIS PERNELL, FELLOW, AMERICAN COLLEGE OF PREVENTIVE MEDICINE: Good to be back with you, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: I mean, you've been a very, you know, regular and powerful, influential voice. You know, during the pandemic, you know, helping to disseminate information, information that is so important. And you also shared publicly the painful experience of losing your precious father, Timothy Pernell, Sr., to COVID and that happened in a hospital just miles away from the hospital where you were working.
So, now, what are your thoughts that seem to be, you know, kind of consuming your every day today when you hear of all of these changes and proposed changes.
PERNELL: I'm angry. I'm vigilant. And I still have a steely resolve. I got into public health because I wanted to safeguard lives, especially those who were marginalized and vulnerable, and just walking into church today, I had a member say, hey, doc, what do I need to do this fall around the COVID vaccine? And because that's because there's so much chaos and confusion coming from the federal government. We've had the CDC annihilated, whether through the ouster of the director or the resignation of those brave, heroic scientists on the front lines or the cuts in funding or the other, rifts in separation and reduction in workforce.
Public health, unfortunately, is in disarray. And so we're going to need academic institutions. We're going to need frontline health care providers, and were going to need medical societies to stand up, speak clearly, speak boldly, and speak plainly so that we can protect as many people as possible.
WHITFIELD: You said during 2020, you know, that President Trump. You said it blatantly, you know, was a threat to public health. He got coronavirus, got treatment for it. Yet you wrote on CNN.com, then, quote, "he mocked infection guidelines" and, I'm quoting now, "taunts those who believe in the science of public health."
Well, now, you know, what are your concerns given the latest Health and Human Services changes on COVID vaccines, and the state of public health today.
PERNELL: I unequivocally double down on everything that I said in 2020. The entire Trump administration, inclusive of Secretary Kennedy, is a threat, present and clear threat to the health and the security of this nation. They have fomented an anti-science and anti- intellectualism and an anti-humanity. And it's leaving so many Americans defenseless.
Misinformation and disinformation have supplanted scientific process rigor, analysis, data. Data should not be overtly politicized. You have someone in Secretary Kennedy who's leading the HHS, who for over two decades undermined public health science, who has not been appropriately giving out recommendations or information around the measles outbreak, who is seeking ways to destroy the process? ACIP has been disbanded. That is that advisory panel for Americans that makes recommendations around immunization practices.
And so, we need to double down and be ever clear. And Secretary Kennedy needs to be fired, or he needs to resign. And those in congress are not innocent, inclusive of those who were medical providers like Senator Cassidy and still voted for Secretary Kennedy.
WHITFIELD: I mean, confusion can be a killer and so can be ignorance, you know? Is it your feeling --
PERNELL: Yes.
WHITFIELD: -- that, you know, lives will be lost, or at the very least, impaired because of new limitations to access?
PERNELL: Yes, lives will be lost. We only have to look at the public health science and look at health policy patterns. When access is, not easy or equitable, people do not get clinical preventive care. Vaccines are an example of clinical preventive care.
If a person cannot go into the pharmacy and cannot readily get a COVID vaccine, they are less likely to go in to see their primary care provider and to get a prescription for vaccine should they need an off label use, because they don't have one of those chronic health conditions, which we suspect because ACIP has yet to give recommendations around what the FDA has sanctioned. ACIP has yet to say what those chronic health conditions will be.
And so, we already know, Fred, that people have died. People have died in a measles outbreak. We know that people are dying because research, whether it's around cancer, whether it's around HIV, is being disbanded.
So, this is not speculation. This is what we saw during the first pandemic. This is what we see in the health care disparities that plague our communities. And this is what is happening in America in real time and will only worsen if we do not have a formidable public health infrastructure in place.
And the last thing that I'll say is, look, there are over 100 people who still die weekly from coronavirus. And even if you get coronavirus and you don't have a serious and debilitating infection, you're at risk for long COVID. My sister struggled with long COVID and still has remnants of long COVID in her -- in her body. So, we were in a dire situation.
WHITFIELD: Yeah, we're wishing your sister all the best in her, continued recovery. And, you know, fight against the coronavirus.
Dr. Chris Pernell, thank you so much.
PERNELL: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:52:25]
WHITFIELD: During President Trump's current term in office, his numerous business ventures monetizing the presidency have raised concerns and allegations about possible conflicts of interest.
But as CNN's Marshall Cohen reports, a decades old presidential exemption to the federal criminal conflicts of interest law gives Trump a loophole to avoid legal consequences.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARSHALL COHEN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: You could call it a presidential carve out. The federal criminal conflict of interest law requires all executive branch officials to de-conflict their personal finances from their government duties. It applies to everyone except the president and the vice president.
This isn't new. These have been the rules for decades because policymakers wanted the president to be able to handle anything that came across his desk. Still, past presidents have voluntarily complied, and de-conflicted their finances.
But nonpartisan experts say Trump is different because he is brazenly flouting ethics norms. Just this year, he had the Pentagon accept a $400 million luxury jet from Qatar. He privately dined with investors in his crypto coin. He's selling Trump branded smartphones, and he recently promoted his golf properties in Scotland.
Meanwhile, his cabinet members, white house advisers and appointees throughout the administration have to deconflict and CNN has obtained internal emails and other documents showing how top officials have been jumping through hoops to comply with the law.
Just look at Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent as an example. He's a former hedge fund manager, and he's got nearly $1 billion in assets that he needs to divest. He says he's 96 percent of the way there. The only thing remaining is a highly illiquid farm land in North Dakota that he has promised to sell by the end of this year.
There's also a senior official at the Office of Management and Budget named Thomas Williams. He oversees defense spending, and he started the year with $2 million to $10 million in stocks from Palantir, a major government contractor. Ethics watchdogs flagged this as a potential conflict. But records reviewed by CNN show that he recused himself from all matters related to Palantir earlier this year. And OMB says that career ethics officials have affirmed that Williams is in full compliance.
There's also the nominee for Army Undersecretary Mike Obadal. And before Trump appointed him to that post, Obadal worked for Anduril Industries, a major defense contractor that does a lot of business with the Pentagon.
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CNN has learned that he has now fully divested in the company ahead of his potential confirmation by the Senate.
Now, I spoke to ethics experts who praised these moves, though they said they will be keeping a very close eye to make sure that Bessent keeps his promises and that these defense officials stay away from matters involving their former employers, like the massive Golden Dome Missile Shield Project.
This is the bizarre reality -- these Trump administration officials are divesting and de-conflicting, sometimes at great cost, while Trump is free to potentially profit off the presidency.
Marshall Cohen, CNN, Washington.
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WHITFIELD: Thanks so much, Marshall.
We'll be right back.
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