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France Joins the Growing Chorus of Nations to Recognize the State of Palestine; ABC Reinstates "Jimmy Kimmel Live" after Backlash and Pressures; Experts Criticizing Donald Trump's Pronouncement on Tylenol and its Connection with Autism. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired September 23, 2025 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

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SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world and to everyone streaming us on CNN Max. I'm Salma Abdelaziz, just ahead.

France recognizes a Palestinian state at the U.N. joining a wave of countries seeking an end to the war in Gaza.

Late night's Jimmy Kimmel is going back on the air inside the conversations that led to his return and why some local stations are still holding out.

Plus, we'll go inside rebel-held Goma, where the M23 militia says it won't recognize any White House peace deal.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from London, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Salma Abdelaziz.

ABDELAZIZ: The U.S. President will be among the first speakers during the opening session of the United Nations General Assembly, which is now just a few hours away. Donald Trump is also set to meet with the Ukrainian and European Commission presidents in the coming day. He'll also hold talks with Muslim and Arab leaders who want to see him pressure Israel to agree to a ceasefire and stop its renewed attacks on Gaza.

This comes as demands for a two-state solution grow louder. The U.N. secretary-general described the situation in Gaza as intolerable and called Palestinian statehood a right, not a reward. The Israeli Prime Minister is accusing the countries recognizing a Palestinian state of, quote, "giving a massive prize to terror."

France, Belgium, Malta, Monaco, and Luxembourg declared their recognition on Monday, joining the overwhelming majority of U.N. member states, but these moves are largely symbolic and without support from the U.S., which has veto power and remains Israel's staunchest ally. The Prime Minister of Luxembourg, one of the latest countries to call for a two-state solution, says what's happening in Gaza now violates international humanitarian law. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUC FRIEDEN, PRIME MINISTER OF LUXEMBOURG: We have always been friends of Israel and we remain friends of Israel. We want an immediate release of the hostages, but at the same time, we need to give the Palestinians hope for the future and also make sure that the Israelis can live in peace. And the only way forward is to make sure that now this two-state solution gets, I would say, new energy, a second chance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABDELAZIZ: CNN's Melissa Bell reports now from Paris on the push for Palestinian statehood and why it's happening now.

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MELISSA BELL, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: France has become one of several countries to recognize the state of Palestine. It was a move announced several months ago by the French and the Saudis, attempts to bring together a conference that would aim to put back at the heart of Middle Eastern politics and peace efforts the idea of a two-state solution.

As one senior source here in Paris explained it, that very idea had become radical as a result of not just what's happened in Gaza over the last couple of years, but also what's been happening in the West Bank, the aim of the French to place it back in a central position. This is what the French President had to say.

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): The time has come. This is why, true to the historic commitment of my country to the Middle East, to peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians, this is why I declare that today France recognizes the state of Palestine.

BELL: The aim, explained the French president, not simply the recognition of Palestine, but the fact that there could be no peace without recognition between one side and the other, and that this then was now a prerequisite for what should follow, which was a peace plan adopted earlier this month by the U.N., which would see things like an international force deployed to Gaza in place of the IDF to try and secure peace.

The first aim, he said, would be to bring peace to that region, with a second phase aimed at reconstructing Gaza and figuring out how a post- peace Palestinian state might function. There has been a lot of speculation about what exactly this might mean and what difference it will make on the ground given the rejection of the idea both by the United States and by Israel.

What allies around France and those who have backed this proposal and followed France's lead hope is that this will increase the isolation of the United States and Israel and potentially bring more pressure to bear on the possibility that talks can once again start on hopes for peace in the Middle East. Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[03:05:08]

ABDELAZIZ: Steven Erlinger is The "New York Times"' chief diplomatic correspondent for Europe. He is with us now live from Berlin.

Good morning, first of all, Stephen. Thank you so much for joining us.

Now, this wave of recognitions are mostly symbolic, of course, but can they actually empower Palestinians in any way, strengthen their hand at the negotiating table, perhaps, or refocus efforts on a two-state solution? What are the practical gains that can come out of this?

STEVEN ERLANGER, CHIEF DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT FOR EUROPE, "NEW YORK TIMES"; Well, the practical gains are basically nothing, to be honest. There are symbolic importance to this, there is new attention to a two-state solution. But the fact of the matter is the current government of Israel, which is pretty popular because of the war it's waged against Iran and Hamas and Lebanon, has set its face against a two-state solution but it's done that a decade ago.

The world knew this. If you're going to recognize the state of Palestine to try to push a two-state solution, it would have been better done before this war. It would have been better done before so many settlements were set up inside the West Bank.

Because the problem is, to Israelis at least, this looks like political cowardice in a way, bending toward domestic anger inside countries like France, Britain, about Israel's occupation and war in Gaza. Now, that war is horrible, everyone can recognize that.

But this is meant to be leverage against Israel, and it's not going to work. So, to some degree, my fear is it will be counterproductive and that Israel will then move to annex more of the West Bank in response to these efforts. That's my concern.

ABDELAZIZ: Yes, and you talk about it being counterproductive, that it is in a weight against Israel now. But could it potentially influence the United States? Because the U.S. is now the sole permanent member of the U.N. Security Council not to recognize Palestinian statehood. It is an outlier, it is isolated.

Could this push the U.S. diplomatically?

ERLANGER: Maybe under a different administration. We'll have to see what happens. Certainly it won't push it under Trump, I mean, Trump's been very clear.

And Germany and Italy also oppose this, by the way. They also want a two-state solution, but they think this declaration is empty and it's too early, that you cannot recognize a state that doesn't yet exist, and a state must emerge out of negotiations between the two parties, between Israel and Palestine. It can't be imposed on life by airy declarations at the United Nations, that's the concern.

So, yes, under another administration in America, under another Israeli administration, under another Palestinian administration, there hasn't been an election in Palestine since 2006.

These countries could have used this leverage to push for more reform from the Palestinian Authority, which was widely disliked inside Palestine. I mean, there are ways to make this work better that are not simply rhetorical.

ABDELAZIZ: And you've sort of touched on this in your answers, but I want to dig deeper on it. First of all, of course, Israel is threatening to retaliate against this wave of recognitions by annexing parts of the West Bank.

Could this further weaken Palestinian statehood, the prospect, rather, of Palestinian statehood? Could it backfire for Palestinians? And for the states that are involved in this wave of recognitions, what other options do they have diplomatically here to push?

ERLANGER: Well, this is my worry. I'm not advocating it. Don't misunderstand me.

My worry is Israel, which already is talking of itself as Sparta, at least in Bibi Netanyahu's words, will do exactly what the world wants it not to do. Bibi has said very clearly there will be no Palestinian state and in fact, when you look at the polls, no majority in Israel or in the Palestinian world believes in the viability now of a second Palestinian state.

So this is the concern. There's no easy answer. I do think countries, if they want to push it, they could exercise more leverage on Israel.

They could really boycott Israeli goods, they could put sanctions on Israel, they could do a lot of things to put economic pressure on Israel. I think they think that's probably not going to work. But there are things they could do.

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They could also, as I say, they could have put more people in the West Bank. They could provide more aid to the Palestinians in a serious way. They could push for reform of the Palestinian Authority.

They could do many things, I think, that would marginally move the aim of an independent Palestine farther ahead.

ABDELAZIZ: So perhaps too little too late, in your words. Perhaps not the right diplomatic move, or rather not the most effective one. But it has taken place.

And for Palestinian diplomats, the United Nations, others seeking to harness the energy of this moment, what happens next? What is the next step?

ERLANGER: Well, I think you're right. I think this is encouraging for them.

And it is encouraging that the world is behind an independent Palestine, and that it is isolating Israel on this issue. I mean, I do think that matters. But I don't know what happens next.

After all, last week, 147 countries of the United Nations already had recognized Palestine. And did it produce a Palestine? No. Would it make much more difference now that France and a reluctant Britain and Canada have done so? I fear not.

ABDELAZIZ: Thank you so much, Steven, for that insight. Very important breakdown there.

NATO's political decision-making body is set to meet on Tuesday to discuss Russia's incursion into Estonian airspace. Estonia requested NATO Article 4 consultation after three Russian jets entered its airspace without permission.

On Monday, the U.N. held an Emergency Security Council session where Estonia and its allies condemned Russia for what they call reckless behavior and deliberate provocation. Russia denies that its jets entered Estonian airspace.

Now, our Fred Pleitgen brings us more from the reaction from Moscow.

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FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kremlin-controlled T.V. ripping into the U.S.'s NATO allies after NATO said Russian jets violated a member state Estonia's airspace late last week.

This time, it wasn't drones, but Russian Aerospace Forces aircraft that caused the panic, the anchor says. Three of our MiG-31 fighter jets allegedly flew into Estonian airspace and remained there for 12 minutes.

While the Russian military denies its planes crossed into NATO territory, analysts hear warning of escalation.

There has to be some way out of this crisis, he says, and the symptoms indicate that some form of military conflict will be inevitable.

The MiG-31 fighters involved in the incident are some of the fastest in the world and able to carry Russia's hypersonic nuclear-capable ballistic missile, the Kinzhal. It's the latest in a string of events increasing tensions between NATO and Russia, coming just days after Poland said it had to scramble jets to shoot down more than a dozen Russian drones that violated its airspace. Still, the Kremlin accusing America's allies of stirring up confrontation.

We consider such claims to be empty, the Kremlin spokesman said, unfounded and part of a completely reckless campaign to escalate tensions and provoke a confrontational atmosphere.

But while the Russians are verbally beating up on the U.S.'s NATO partners, Moscow is pushing a key incentive for President Trump. State T.V. joking that President Trump should receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

Ha, why won't they give it to him? And they won't give it to him because the committee members who make the decisions are such hardened liberals and anti-Trumpists.

All this just days after Russia put on large-scale naval drills, launching cruise missiles from nuclear-powered subs. Russian President Vladimir Putin offering President Trump another olive branch, saying Russia is willing to extend a nuclear arms treaty between Washington and Moscow. Naturally, this would require conditions for its full- scale resumption and take into account the entire range of efforts aimed at normalizing bilateral relations and resolving fundamental security contradictions.

PLEITGEN: The Russian President speaking about that nuclear treaty that the Russians are saying they're willing to continue to adhere to. But for them, it always has been about something bigger. The Russians are saying one of the main reasons why they're engaging with the Trump administration is not just to solve the conflict in Ukraine, but of course, first and foremost, a normalization of U.S.-Russia relations and sanctions relief as well.

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ABDELAZIZ: The Trump administration is offering emergency financial help to its political ally, the president of Argentina.

At campaign rallies, Javier Milei famously promised to take a chainsaw to government spending, and his programs have dramatically reduced Argentina's inflation rate. But they've also caused deep economic pain and weakened him politically ahead of key elections next month.

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ERIC FARNSWORTH, SR. ASSOCIATE, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Milei has strongly implemented some policies. He's gotten inflation down, he's opened up the economy in terms of international trade, he has reduced spending. And the economy really has shown some positive results.

But it does have a transaction costs and transition costs, and jobs have been lost, and people have to operate under austerity measures. That's absolutely right. And so the question is, how long are the Argentine people willing to put up with that and pay the costs of trying to get through this period of transition?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABDELAZIZ: U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant says the U.S. is ready to provide a large and forceful program of financial intervention for Argentina. Milei is expected to meet with President Trump on Tuesday to discuss the plan.

Now, late night host Jimmy Kimmel will be live once again, how his temporary suspension turned into a fight for free speech, just ahead on "CNN Newsroom."

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ABDELAZIZ: Jimmy Kimmel is preparing his return to late night television after Disney reversed its decision to pull his show off the air. The suspension was prompted by comments Kimmel made following the death of political activist Charlie Kirk, igniting a debate on free speech. But while "Jimmy Kimmel Live" will return to ABC, not everyone is going to be able to see it.

CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister has more on this sudden reversal.

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ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: When Jimmy Kimmel returns to his show on Tuesday night, he will address the controversy surrounding him and his show. That is what a source tells me, that Kimmel is planning to address the entire situation with the FCC threatening Disney and with his show ultimately being pulled off the air.

Now, what he will say remains to be seen but a source told me last week that Disney and ABC have never censored Kimmel, that he has always been free to speak his mind about politics and about President Trump. And it wasn't until last Wednesday when the FCC made threats and when station groups pulled Kimmel's show, that Disney decided, let's wait a beat and let's temporarily take your show off the air. Because, I was told by a source, Kimmel refused to back down with his planned monologue, in which he had planned to take aim at the MAGA base and at Fox News.

Now, I was also told from the get-go that Disney never planned for this to be a cancellation. Kimmel was never fired. In fact, sources have told me from the beginning of this entire controversy, that Disney was always hopeful that they would bring Kimmel's show back and that they were working with him to find a path forward.

Now, Stephen Colbert, whose show was canceled by his network, CBS, he wasted no time talking about Disney's decision to bring Kimmel back. Take a look.

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": Well, just a few hours before we taped this broadcast, we got word that our long national late nightmare is over because Disney announced that Jimmy Kimmel Live will return to air on ABC tomorrow, Tuesday night. Once more, I am the only martyr in late nights.

WAGMEISTER: Now, Disney, in explaining why they are bringing back Kimmel's show, they said in a statement that last Wednesday, we made the decision to suspend production on the show to avoid further inflaming a tense situation at an emotional moment for our country. It is a decision we made because we felt some of the comments were ill- timed and thus insensitive.

Well, regardless of what Jimmy says when he returns, he is absolutely going to upset at least some viewers. And that has been proven because Sinclair has said that they will not be airing Jimmy's show on Tuesday and they will continue to evaluate the situation. Back to you.

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ABDELAZIZ: Now, President Trump's stewardship of the world's largest economy has left many of America's top business executives privately on edge. August, in particular, was an eyebrow-raising month for CEOs in the U.S. after a brutal jobs report, Mr. Trump fired the commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, accusing her without evidence of cooking the books.

Three weeks later, the President decided to go big on intel. He oversaw the controversial decision to invest taxpayer money in the struggling chip maker. And just three days after that, Trump fired Fed Governor Lisa Cook; she has since fought back in court.

According to one Yale University professor who is known as the CEO whisperer, business leaders are growing alarmed at Trump's heavy- handed approach to the economy and to democracy at large.

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JEFFREY SONNERFIELD, PROF. YALE UNIVERSITY: Our CEO groups are around 70 percent, 70, 75 percent Republican. They tell us 80 percent that they're disappointed with the performance of the economy under Trump. And they'll go through specifics about what they don't like about tariff policies and the like and the independence of the Fed.

[03:25:06]

But more than anything else, it's the corrosive effect and threat to the free enterprise system of not having a functioning democracy. But we're not seeing a lot of those forceful voices come together, but they need to. They all want to talk about this, they're very much alarmed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABDELAZIZ: The U.S. President stuns medical experts by linking autism with a common painkiller. Still ahead, CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, lays out the studies that contradict President Trump's claim.

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ABDELAZIZ: Welcome back to "CNN Newsroom," I'm Salma Abdelaziz. Let's check today's top stories. Calls for a two-state solution in the Middle East are growing louder, just hours before the U.N. General Assembly. The U.N. chief says Palestinian statehood is a right, not a reward, and without it, there will be no peace in the region. And the French President says it's the only way Israelis and Palestinians can live side-by-side in peace and security.

Danish and Norwegian officials are investigating drone sightings that disturbed operations at the busiest airports in each country. Copenhagen's main airport closed its airspace for several hours on Monday night after two to three large, unidentified drones were spotted. The Danish police chief says no suspects have been identified, but it was the work of, quote, "a capable operator."

And Hong Kong and the southern Chinese mainland are bracing for the arrival of Typhoon Ragasa. School and businesses have been shut down in anticipation of the most powerful tropical storm so far this year. Authorities say hurricane-force winds and heavy rain could lead to a significant storm surge on Wednesday.

Medical experts are criticizing the U.S. President's announcement linking the use of acetaminophen while pregnant with autism. Donald Trump made the announcement despite decades of evidence that the common painkiller is safe. Tylenol, the brand name for acetaminophen, is considered the only safe over-the-counter option for pregnant people.

CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, lays out the science behind it.

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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, understandable if people are confused by what they heard coming out of the White House regarding Tylenol and autism. This is something, first of all, that is not new.

There have been a lot of studies looking into this over the last couple of decades, many of which we've reported on. There has never been a cause-and-effect relationship established between Tylenol or acetaminophen, which is the active ingredient, and autism, just to make that clear.

In fact, if you look at the specific language from the FDA that came out after that press conference, even there, they're not suggesting that people stop taking Tylenol, especially for fevers during pregnancy, because I think that's probably the most important point.

Keep in mind, when something is very ubiquitous, very common, you can associate it with just about anything. That's the paradox of ubiquity. As one of the researchers said, in hot weather months, ice cream use goes up and violent crime goes up.

Are those things cause and effect? No, but they might be considered associated. In fact, if you look at Tylenol use over the last couple of decades

for pregnant women, its usage has come down a bit, even as autism rates have gone up. Something to keep in mind.

Yet, there have been these signals of concerns about potential associations between Tylenol and autism, and that's why a particularly big study was done. It came out of Sweden, it was over 25 years, they looked at 2 million children, about 10 percent of the moms had taken Tylenol during pregnancy.

They had babies, they had siblings as well, in which they had not taken Tylenol during pregnancy. The bottom line is, when they put all of that data together, they did not find any link between Tylenol and autism. That's why you do those sorts of big studies.

One thing, again, that came out was this idea that if a woman has a fever during pregnancy, how big a problem is that in and of itself? That gets back to this association problem.

Why was the woman taking Tylenol in the first place? Was it to treat a fever? Did that fever get caused by an infection? Could the infection or the fever be really what's driving a potential association with autism?

Again, these are complicated studies. That's why you have to do them.

Not treating a fever during pregnancy is a problem. It can be associated with birth defects, it can be associated with early labor, it can be associated with a miscarriage and neurodevelopmental problems in and of itself.

[03:35:06]

So the guidance has long been to women who have fevers during pregnancy or need to take something for pain, take the smallest dose for the shortest amount of time. And I don't think that guidance is likely to change based on what we heard.

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ABDELAZIZ: Now, President Trump brushed off the experts saying, quote, "we understood a lot more than a lot of people who studied it."

Now, let's get more on all this from Dr. Eivind Ystrom. He's a professor of psychology at the University of Oslo, he was also the lead author of a study on the use of acetaminophen during pregnancy. He joins me now live from Oslo.

Good morning, first of all. Thank you for joining us. Can you just start by explaining to me what the White House says is the link between autism and pregnant women taking Tylenol or paracetamol? Is there any scientific evidence to back up President Trump's claim?

EIVIND YSTROM, PROF. OF PSYCHOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF OSLO: Good morning. Well, I think in general, I would say no. And many of these studies, they have also focused on the type of use

that very few women do. That is, those who take it for a very long time or way beyond what is recommended by the G.P.

But what the White House or they are talking about here is to take it at all during pregnancy. And if the use is indicated, for instance, by fever or infections or strong pain, it's highly recommended to take acetaminophen at the recommended dose.

ABDELAZIZ: And you conducted a study or you were the lead researcher on a study on the use of acetaminophen, again, known as paracetamol here during pregnancy. What did your study find out about this?

YSTROM: Well, it is really hard to study because it's sold over-the- counter. You have this enormous study where women reported during the pregnancy what when they used acetaminophen, but also what they used it for.

And then we could control if they had fevers, infections and pain and so on. And we could also compare siblings. And we could also look if the father used it and because he's not pregnant, right.

So we could see if there's any type of transmission or genetic risk, for instance. And what we then found was that those of the children or fathers who also used it for a very long time, they had an equal high chance of having a neurodevelopmental disorders than those who had mothers that used it for a long time. And that sort of leans toward a non-causal explanation that it's not the drug in itself, but there's something about risking these families.

ABDELAZIZ: So you say you what it did reveal is that there is no cause, essentially a cause and effect between acetaminophen and being used during pregnancy and autism. What are some of the other conclusions that you were able -- clarify that for me, could you clarify for me that?

YSTROM: Yes, that was the conclusion. But it is important to say and have looked at this and concluded that the epidemiological studies on this are inconclusive because, you know, we have to do epidemiological studies because you can't, you know, randomize pregnant women into high doses of acetaminophen.

But also it is when you buy this drug, it says in the package that you should use it for the shortest possible time and the lowest possible frequency. So it's highly recommended to take when you have a fever.

But -- and in this study that I did and actually for those women who had fever and they used it for up to one week, the risk for a neurodevelopmental disorders became less. So there was indication that actually that acetaminophen was protective for neurodevelopmental disorders when you had a fever.

ABDELAZIZ: Very interesting. And you discussed a little bit about the safety label or how G.P.s or how doctors tell pregnant women to take this acetaminophen while they're pregnant. Now, in response to President Trump's announcement, the FDA says it's

beginning to process a change in safety labels on Tylenol on acetaminophen products and sending a letter to doctors in the U.S., of course, saying that the choice to take Tylenol still belongs with patients.

Could you explain to me the impact of that just on a regular family coming to the doctor's office trying to figure out what's going on? What could the impact of these new safety labels be and could we see them reversed in the future?

YSTROM: Yes, I think this is very serious. I mean, I have three kids myself and know how worried women are during pregnancy for I mean, to do the right things. And when you are ill, when you have fever, when you have influenza, you're in a really difficult situation. And we have really strong evidence that these infections, having high fever, is not at all good for the fetus.

[03:40:02]

So it's and these infections are quite common. And most of the acetaminophen use used by pregnant women is the short term use, those who take down the fever, take away severe pain.

And so this is quite severe because infections and fevers are quite common during pregnancy. It would have been less severe sort of for the whole population if this was something really rare, right? Then as it is with certain drugs or infections and such that we are worried about. But here we are worried about the disease and not so much about the drug.

But these disease that we use acetaminophen is so common. So I think I'm quite worried about the potential outcome here in the future. And to see to have potentially many children who had unnecessary exposure to high fever during pregnancy.

ABDELAZIZ: So you're concerned about the potential consequences of what might be confusing guidance. So just really simplify this for me. I have friends who are pregnant, I have family members who are pregnant.

What would you tell them in the simplest terms about taking acetaminophen while pregnant?

YSTROM: Well, first of all, listen to your G.P. I think they have all the experience and know you well. And also, if it's indicated, if you have a fever to take it, well, at the dose that you need for the shortest time that you need.

And there's no studies showing good studies showing that has any risk for your child. So it's at the moment when you have these infections and the fever go up, use it in the recommended way and also stop taking it when it's not needed anymore.

ABDELAZIZ: Thank you so much for your time and for breaking down a really complicated issue for us. YSTROM: You're welcome. Have a nice day.

ABDELAZIZ: You too.

Donald Trump says the conflict between Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of Congo is settled, but armed groups are still fighting in the DRC. Coming up, a CNN exclusive report from the rebel-held city of Goma.

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ABDELAZIZ: U.S. President Donald Trump says he has settled the conflict between Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of Congo. Washington hosted the foreign ministers of both nations back in June to sign a peace deal. It aimed to end decades of conflict following the 1994 Rwandan genocide, which killed an estimated six million people.

The peace deal came in the wake of a power shift at the start of 2025 when a rebel group known as M23, allegedly backed by Rwanda, took control of two major cities in the eastern DRC. Despite the signing, many armed groups are still fighting, as CNN's Larry Madowo explains in this exclusive report from rebel-held Goma. But first, a warning that the following story does contain disturbing images.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the Democratic Republic of Congo, a militia flaunts its new army on graduation day. These men are said to be former Congolese army soldiers who laid down their arms during fierce battles for the DRC's largest eastern cities of Goma and Bukavu.

The man watching over them is Corneille Nangaa, the leader of the Congo River Alliance, which includes the M23 rebel group allegedly backed by Rwanda.

The White House brokered a peace deal between the DRC and Rwanda in June that these rebels are still fighting. Rather than peace, this former election chief says he plans to take his soldiers to the capital, Kinshasa, to overthrow DRC President Felix Tshisekedi.

CORNEILLE NANGAA, AFC-M23 POLITICAL LEADER: Our aim is to go to Kinshasa. We are going to go with our Congolese people, we are Congolese. We don't benefit anything from Rwanda, and we don't need it.

MADOWO (voice-over): CNN travelled to Goma in eastern DRC to interview the M23 leader amid fresh accusations of severe human rights abuses and war crimes leveled against all sides, but especially at M23.

VOLKER TURK, U.N, HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS (through translator): My team confirmed that the M23 committed widespread torture and other mistreatment, including sexual violence against detainees.

NANGAA: These are the liars. Fake report. There's no truth in that.

MADOWO: You don't agree with Human Rights Watch and the U.N.?

NANGAA: I don't agree. I reject all those reports because they are propaganda from Kinshasa and they have been paid. They have been paid for that.

MADOWO (voice-over): The eastern DRC, which shares a border with Rwanda, has been mired in conflict for more than 30 years since the Rwandan genocide. It is one of the most complex and protracted crises in the world, stemming from colonial era border disputes, ethnic tensions and fought over its large deposits of minerals that are crucial to 21st century technology.

M23 has grabbed territory where the world's largest reserves of coltan are located, critical to the production of electronics from cell phones to electric vehicles. The Rwandan government denies backing M23, though U.N. experts and much of the international community believe Rwanda supports the rebels.

[03:50:06]

M23 first seized Goma in 2012, and this January took it again, this time the rebels say they will not withdraw so easily.

MADOWO: Would you accept a peace deal that requires you to withdraw from these areas you currently control?

NANGAA: When we are here, we address the root causes of the crisis, then we drop everything and everything is done.

MADOWO: President Trump said that they're getting minerals as part of this deal.

NANGAA: Tshisekedi doesn't have any mining, a mining site.

MADOWO: So President Tshisekedi has no minerals to give to the rebels?

NANGAA: He doesn't have it, he's a crook.

MADOWO: Are you suggesting that President Tshisekedi is manipulating President Trump with minerals?

NANGAA: This is what he is trying to do.

MADOWO: Will it succeed?

NANGAA: I don't know.

MADOWO (voice-over): Goma International Airport has been closed since M23 took over. They accuse Congolese troops of leaving behind mines and booby traps. MADOWO: One of M23's biggest trophies is this Russian manufactured

fighter jet, which they say they took over as a Congolese army fled the city. That fighter jet is used to fly these rocket heads and you see some of them have been used, some are still active, all abandoned as the city was getting liberated, according to the M23.

MADOWO (voice-over): Caught in the crossfires of power struggles and violence are vulnerable women and children. 25-year-old Muhawenimana Rachel, along with her four young children, are some of the thousands that have been sent over recent months from the DRC to Rwanda.

MUHAWENIMANA RACHEL, DISPLACED PERSON (through translator): I'm happy to be back home, even though I'm coming back to a place I don't even know because I was born in Congo.

MADOWO: The M23 tell us they are family members of Rwandan rebels who operate in the eastern DRC and who try to overthrow the government of Rwanda. They're being repatriated. But human rights groups say some of this repatriation is not voluntary, they have to leave.

MADOWO (voice-over): On the streets of Goma, life has largely returned to normal since January's fighting. At this busy market, people declined to speak on camera for fear of being targeted.

28 million people, nearly a quarter of the population in DRC, required urgent food assistance as of mid-2025, according to the World Food Program. It told CNN the escalation of violence following the M23 takeover of Goma and Bukavu has, quote, "severely disrupted humanitarian operations."

Children have returned to class for the start of a new school year. But life remains difficult, with teachers earning just $100 a month.

The sound of gunfire may have calmed in Goma, but lasting peace still seems a long way off. M23 are, so far, not even party to the White House agreement.

NANGAA: The root causes of the conflict is not discussed in Washington.

MADOWO: Will you recognize any peace deal signed at the White House?

NANGAA: I don't recognize the Tshisekedi regime. So whatever he signed, I'm not concerned. He is illegitimate, he cannot represent DRC.

So whatever he signed over there, in so far as we are not part of it, we don't care. I don't recognize it.

MADOWO (voice-over): M23 consider themselves revolutionaries, not rebels, and it seems even the U.S. negotiated peace agreements won't stop them.

Larry Madowo, CNN, Goma.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ABDELAZIZ: The Democratic Republic of Congo categorically rejects baseless accusations that Congolese troops left behind mines and booby traps at Goma International Airport. That is the statement from a government spokesperson to CNN. They also said that, quote, "the peace agreement signed in Washington under the accompaniment of President Donald Trump does not contain a sell-off of Congolese minerals for peace."

Now, we'll be right back with more news.

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[03:55:00]

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ABDELAZIZ: A famous face joined the ranks of runners at the Berlin Marathon this weekend and posted an impressive finish. Using the pseudonym Stead Sarandos and wearing a headband in sunglasses, Harry Styles, the former One Direction singer, finished the race in two hours, 59 minutes and 13 seconds. Now, some eagle-eyed fans spotted the star despite his disguise as he joined 55,000 runners on what's considered the fastest marathon track in the world.

And in France, an American has taken top honors at the Cheesemonger World Cup for the first time ever. Emilia D'Alvaro dominated a host of events at the Mondial de Fromage, including a blind tasting, a lengthy written test and cutting a specific amount of cheese without measuring tools. For the grand finale, she created a 3D cheese sculpture depicting the phases of the moon.

Thank you so much for your company, I'm Salma Abdelaziz. "Amanpour" is up next, then stay tuned for "Early Start" at 5:00 a.m. in New York and 10:00 a.m. in London.

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