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At Least 4 Killed in Michigan Church Shooting & Fire; Trump Sets Expectations High for Netanyahu Meeting. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired September 29, 2025 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Polo Sandoval, live in New York, where it is midnight Monday. Wherever you may be watching from, you're now in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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The U.S.'s latest deadly attack on a house of worship leaves a small community in mourning. What's next, investigators comb through a destroyed church.

And a high-stakes meeting at the White House as President Trump tries to convince Israel's prime minister to get behind his peace plan for Gaza.

And as Syria struggles after more than a decade of civil war, an ancient landmark has become a symbol of a rebuilt nation.

ANNOUNCER: Live from New York, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Polo Sandoval.

SANDOVAL: The FBI is now leading the investigation into a deadly church attack in the U.S. state of Michigan, which investigators are now calling an act of targeted violence.

Police say a man crashed his car into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Grand Blanc Township, where hundreds of people were celebrating services there on Sunday.

Well, the suspect then opened fire with an assault rifle and then used gasoline to deliberately set fire to the building. At least four people are dead, eight others wounded, and as many as seven still unaccounted for at this hour.

Police say that they killed the shooter within minutes of responding. Listen to one church member describe the chaos that unfolded Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know what was going on, and I didn't know if we were going to have to get down. Because we couldn't see anybody.

To worship my savior, Jesus Christ. And I didn't expect this to happen, of course. And I've lost friends in there. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm so sorry to hear that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And some of my little primary children that I teach on Sundays. I -- I joined the church 38 years ago in that building, and now it's gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: Officials say the children are among those who were injured.

Investigators, they've been combing through the rubble of the church, searching for signs of any more victims. Police are praising the worshipers who rushed to protect each other.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF WILLIAM RENYE, GRAND BLANC, MICHIGAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: And I'd also like to acknowledge the heroism of not only the first responders, but the people who were inside that church at the time. They were shielding the children who were also present within the church, moving them to safety. Just hundreds of people just practicing their faith.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: The gunman has been identified as a 40-year-old U.S. Marine veteran of the Iraq War.

A retired FBI agent standing by to offer some live analysis. But first, CNN's Leigh Waldman begins our coverage from the scene.

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LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Unfortunately, the death toll continues to rise here in Grand Blanc Township, Michigan, after a gunman drove into the front doors of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, opened fire, and then used an accelerant and set that church on fire.

You can see just how busy this scene is still behind us, with first responders going down this road, continuing to search through the rubble of that church.

We're hearing from first responders that they have not been able to clear the entire property yet, because it is so large, and the church itself is deemed a total loss.

WALDMAN (voice-over): It's extensive efforts. But they also spoke about the heroism of first responders, responding within 30 seconds of that first 911 call, and taking out the gunman less than ten minutes later in the back parking lot of that chapel there.

WALDMAN: We also know that they're responding to the place where they believe that he lived. Working on getting search warrants to search through his digital footprint. The FBI is calling this an act of targeted violence, saying although that the gunman is dead, they are still working to determine a motive. It's important to them to determine a motive.

We also heard that there was acts of heroism from the people inside of that church. Hundreds of people inside of the church shielding their children with their own bodies, trying to keep them safe.

We're expecting to get much more information on Monday, hoping to hear more about the recovery efforts as they search through this property.

Leigh Waldman, CNN, Grand Blanc, Michigan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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SANDOVAL: And joining me now is CNN law enforcement contributor Steve Moore. He's also a retired FBI supervisory special agent.

Steve, thank you so much for joining us to try to -- to better understand what was just an absolutely horrific, horrific attack in Michigan.

I'm wondering if we could just dive right in here and -- and talk about what you make of the FBI taking over this case just so quickly. And we heard, just a few hours ago, them concluding that this was an act of targeted violence.

From your perspective, could that mean that investigators believe this to be some form of a hate crime?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, that's one of the -- one of the things it could be. The FBI, it has federal jurisdiction. They don't have state jurisdiction on murders or things like that. You don't see them taking DUI people into custody.

To get federal jurisdiction there, they need to have either a hate crime, an act of domestic terrorism, or they might possibly call this use of a weapon of mass destruction. Meaning the -- the IEDs or the use of -- the use of gasoline, if that was the accelerant, to burn down a church full of people.

SANDOVAL: As you and I speak, investigators are still on the scene right now. They're still combing through the charred remains of that building.

From your investigative experience, what are some of the complications that investigators could be facing right now as they try to not only recover evidence, but -- but certainly, any more victims?

MOORE: Right. The problem they're having, Polo -- is -- one of the problems they're having is that it appears that the roof has collapsed. So, all the victims that are still in the building are going to be under several feet of construction material: of -- of two- by-fours, of shingles, of the whole bit. And then everything that fell, burned. And so, you are just picking

things apart, trying to get down to a base level. And as gruesome as it sounds, sometimes it is hard to find a body inside of a burned structure that's -- that's come apart like that.

So, it's -- they could be right next to a body and not know it. So, there are a lot of literal, physical complications of this type of investigation.

SANDOVAL: It has to be some incredibly delicate work, as it's not just a shooting scene, but also a fire scene, as well.

Now, one of the things that that I've heard from investigators here is also from a Marine spokesperson that told CNN that the suspect was an Iraq War veteran.

Now -- now, bearing in mind that this is still very early in the investigation, we don't know exactly what -- where investigators will be led, you know, with that lead.

But how will the FBI work with the military to try to learn more about the suspect's history and if maybe some of their training may have been used to plan or carry out Sunday's attack?

MOORE: Well, there's -- there's no doubt that he was trained in firearms in the Marines, and he used a firearm today and probably very similar to the one he used in the Marines. So, certainly some of his training was used.

But going -- yes, they are going to go back, and they are going to start long before he even went into the Marines to try and figure out what motivated him.

And the thing is, you can look at the Marine Corps career he had, but that's not -- that's a snapshot of where he was during certain years of his life. Twenty years later, he's a totally different person, for good or for bad. And so, you're trying to determine where he started to divert from -- from normalcy.

And, you know, he -- apparently, he had some issues with a sick child, with money. And so, the FBI is going to be looking, No. 1, on his social media footprint to determine whether he made any hate -- hate- related remarks, it had a political motive, or whether they're just looking at somebody whose world is breaking down around them.

SANDOVAL: One of the other things that struck me, too, Steve, is that what we heard from authorities and how they spoke about the heroism of not just first responders that confronted the suspect, but also the people inside, some, according to what we heard, using their bodies to shield their children.

And -- and I remember speaking to another expert a month ago and sharing similar stories also when the Annunciation Catholic Church shooting happened.

So, what continues to make houses of worship vulnerable targets? We've seen this before. Even the Texas governor tweeting a short while ago, calling it the escalation of violent attacks against people in places of faith. Of course, Texas seeing violence at a house of worship back in 2017 also.

MOORE: Yes. And it's -- it's increasing in rate and number.

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And so, what you have to do is, No. 1, realize -- and the FBI and law enforcement have to realize -- that they're dealing with a new type of hate crime, which is -- which is kind of generally, the Protestant and Catholic churches, where they're being -- they're being hit.

The other thing is -- and this is -- this is years -- years past the start of this, but, churches, especially larger churches in metropolitan areas long ago, started operating security teams to protect the people in the service. And on some of those shootings at churches, the security teams have ended the threat.

And so, you're going to be seeing, unfortunately, churches just like schools, just like synagogues, have to have armed security.

SANDOVAL: Retired FBI, Steve Moore, thank you so much for joining us again. It's important to have these conversations to try to --

MOORE: Thank you.

SANDOVAL: -- better understand such a tragedy. Appreciate your time.

MOORE: Thank you.

SANDOVAL: U.S. President Donald Trump promising something special on Gaza ahead of his high-stakes meeting with his Israeli counterpart. But sources say Netanyahu has reservations about the White House's ceasefire and post-war plan. We're going to lay out the details when we come back.

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SANDOVAL: U.S. President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, they are set to discuss the war in Gaza in just a matter of hours. But the outlook on the high-stakes meeting already appears to be somewhat divided.

Mr. Trump took to social media on Sunday to say, in part, "We have a real chance for GREATNESS IN THE MIDDLE EAST. ALL ARE ON BOARD FOR SOMETHING SPECIAL. FIRST TIME EVER. WE WILL GET IT DONE!!" writes the president.

Well, his vice president, J.D. Vance, was a bit more reserved when speaking to FOX News on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: The president's been very clear. He actually wants Gaza to be controlled by the people who live there.

He wants the West Bank to be controlled by the people who live there. And he wants the terrorist networks that are around the Israelis to be dismantled so they can no longer pose a threat to Israel, especially the innocent civilians who live in Israel.

It's never easy, as we've learned in the Middle East over many years. This stuff comes in fits and starts, and it can take very weird turns.

But I think the president has gotten us to a point where we're at the one-yard line, and all of us are very hopeful we can sort of punch through to the end zone and accomplish a major, major thing for peace in the region.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: Sources say the White House is bracing for Israeli opposition to certain elements of its 21-point peace plan. The proposal includes a permanent ceasefire, release of the remaining hostages, gradual Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, and a roadmap for the enclave without Hamas.

Well, Hamas, for its part, said on Sunday that it had not received any new proposals for a ceasefire.

Joining us from Jerusalem is Yaakov Katz, senior columnist at "The Jerusalem Post."

Yaakov, it's good to see you again.

YAAKOV KATZ, SENIOR COLUMNIST, "THE JERUSALEM POST": Great to see you, Polo.

SANDOVAL: So, President Trump boasting that Monday's meeting with the Israeli prime minister, it could, as you just heard, end the war. The president also offered some optimism that all parties are close to sealing a deal.

But then Benjamin Netanyahu had this to say on FOX News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Well, we're working on it, Jackie. It's not been finalized yet, but were working with President Trump's team, actually, as we speak. And I hope we can -- we can make it a go. Because we want to free our hostages. We want to get rid of Hamas rule.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: So, "We'll get it done," "We're working on it." Similar language. It's possible that both are true. In your perspective, how hopeful should we be that this meeting will be the meeting to finally make a difference?

KATZ: Well, if there's going to be a meeting that's going to make a difference, it's going to be this one. At least that's what it seems like, based on what President Donald Trump has been communicating over the last 48, 72 hours with his different posts on Truth Social.

But Polo, and this we have to remember: for Israel, if there is an offer on the table that does not include a release of the hostages, then I don't see how the prime minister goes down that road and takes that deal.

However, if the deal that's put on the table includes the release of the hostages, and there still are some differences on some of the details. For example, what exactly is the presence that the Israeli military gets to keep in Gaza? How big, how small? What exactly is the role that the Palestinian Authority that's based in the West Bank gets to play inside the postwar Gaza? Big or small? Those are details.

For Israel, if all the hostages are released, it's going to be very, very difficult -- and I would probably say impossible -- for the prime minister to reject such an offer.

SANDOVAL: You mentioned what this could mean for the Israeli military. I'm curious, in your view, what this could -- how much is actually riding on this meeting for Prime Minister Netanyahu as he grows increasingly isolated from nations that have recognized Palestine? I mean, we saw many of them walking out during the U.N. G.A., during the prime minister's remarks.

KATZ: Yes, and that was a very tough image to watch. You know, to see how an Israeli leader, a leader of our country, goes up on stage at what is one of the most important podiums in the world, and the whole place empties out, for the most part. It's very difficult.

[00:20:07]

And there's no -- it's no hiding or secret anymore that Israel is increasingly isolated on the world stage because of the criticism of the way it's been prosecuting this war, whether right or wrong. I would say it's wrong, but it doesn't make a difference. That's the reality.

SANDOVAL: Yes.

KATZ: And therefore, Donald Trump, though, knows that, Polo. Trump knows that Netanyahu is pretty much completely dependent on him and completely dependent on the United States.

And as we know Donald Trump, when he sees leverage, he uses it to the maximum. And therefore, when Netanyahu walks into the White House today -- and I think that's why we've seen this flurry of activity in the run up to the meeting on Monday.

Prime Minister Netanyahu has been meeting with the president's special envoy Witkoff; with his son in law, Jared Kushner, two people who are running point for the administration on this postwar reality in Gaza.

The prime minister wants to try to close up all the different corners and get all those details squared away before he goes into the office with Trump so there aren't any surprises, so there isn't any of that classic Trump unpredictability that we have come to know pretty well.

SANDOVAL: You answered my next question, too, about the leverage that the president, that President Trump could use. So, let's talk a little bit about the role of a governing body in -- for the Palestinian people. We know that, in the past, the Israeli prime minister has not really addressed that head on.

Does the meeting on Monday, will that essentially force the Israeli prime minister to have that discussion about what he is willing to give up and agree to when it comes to establishing a governing body? Obviously, without a Hamas element?

KATZ: Well, I mean, this is really one of the main sticking points, Polo, because everyone understands that the day after this war ends and when Israel withdraws from Gaza, you do need to see the establishment of a new governing entity in the Gaza Strip that is not Hamas.

Now, the question has long been, OK, who is that going to be, right? Because the Egyptians aren't jumping at the opportunity to come in and rule Gaza. Neither are the Jordanians or the Saudis or anyone else for that matter. So. who is it going to be

And I think everyone has long understood that it is -- it might be some sort of multinational conglomerate of different representatives from different countries, but it is going to need to have a Palestinian representative.

Now, Israel has issues with the Palestinian Authority for a variety of reasons, maybe also because they continue to pay salaries to Palestinian prisoners who are in Israeli prisons for terrorist activities. That's something that has long bothered Israel.

But with that said, they are vocally opposed to terrorism. They have called for the release of the hostages in the end of the war. And therefore, the president wants to see a pathway in the future to Palestinian statehood. He wants to see the Palestinian Authority involved here.

And this could be an issue that will definitely come up in those talks. What role do they get to play and to what extent? But I would guess, Polo, at this stage, they're going to be there, and the prime minister is going to have to find a way to massage that to his people, to his coalition, and to the Israeli public.

SANDOVAL: It is such valuable insight coming from you, Yaakov Katz. Thank -- as we get ready to watch these two leaders meet at the White House very soon. As always, a pleasure having you on. Thank you.

KATZ: Thank you.

SANDOVAL: Syria's former minister says Israeli strikes last year, quote, "stunned his country." Israel claimed to target chemical weapons and long-range missiles in a series of attacks on Syria after the fall of Bashar al-Assad last December. In an exclusive interview with CNN's Fareed Zakaria, Assad al-Shaibani

said that it means normalizing relations with Israel is, quote, "difficult."

And we're going to have much, much more ahead on CNN NEWSROOM. Don't go anywhere.

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