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Netanyahu Says He Hopes Hostages Will be Released Within Days; Interview With Former Israeli Ambassador To The United States Michael Oren; Federal Agents And Protesters Clash In Chicago; Interview With Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY); Congress Leaves D.C. With No Funding Deal In Sight; Poll Shows Trump, GOP Taking Heat For Shutdown; Soon: Judge To Decide If National Guard Can Deploy To Portland; European Union Leaders Weigh "Drone Wall" After Alleged Russian Incursions; Four- Legged Friends Help First Responders Cope With Stress. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 04, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:39]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean here in New York.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he is hopeful all of the remaining Israeli hostages, living and dead, will be released within days after Hamas agreed to some parts of President Donald Trump's peace plan for Gaza.

In one point of agreement, Hamas has said it is willing to negotiate for the release of all the remaining Israeli hostages still being held in Gaza.

Hamas kidnapped 251 people from Israel on October 7th of 2023. 204 of those people have been returned -- 148 of them alive. 47 are still being held by Hamas. And of those, 20 hostages are assumed to still be alive, with Israel looking to bring home the bodies of 27 others who are presumed dead.

So for more on this, we have Julia Benbrook, who's at the White House. We also have Jeremy Diamond, who is live for us in Tel Aviv.

And Jeremy, I do want to begin with you because tonight we've seen demonstrations across Israel. We've seen those almost every -- pretty much every Saturday night since this war began, with crowds in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

Tell us -- tell us about what you're seeing there and what people are saying.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's right.

Tens of thousands of Israelis taking to the streets of Tel Aviv tonight at Hostages Square, demanding that this deal that we are starting to see take shape between Israel and Hamas, that it become a reality that the Israeli government follow through with turning this deal into something that's actually agreed by both parties and able to be implemented on the ground.

And as those protesters were taking to the streets to raise their voice once again, as they have week after week for the last two years now, the Israeli prime minister also addressed the nation, and he struck quite an optimistic tone about the possibility of reaching an agreement with Hamas.

He said that he hopes that he will be able to come back to the Israeli public with the news of all 48 hostages being released during the upcoming week-long holiday of sukkot, which begins on Monday evening.

The Israeli prime minister said that he will be sending a delegation to engage in these negotiations in Cairo, Egypt in the coming days. That delegation is set to be led by Ron Dermer, Netanyahu's closest adviser.

The bottom line here though, is that even though there is a lot of momentum, there is a lot of optimism. And clearly this moment feels very different from previous moments in these negotiations, it's important to note that there are still sticking points that remain between the two sides.

Hamas has, of course, said that it is willing to release all 48 hostages based on the parameters of this agreement, but some of the discussions that are going to have to happen over the coming days are going to be about, first of all, the withdrawal lines to where do Israeli forces have to withdraw to within the Gaza Strip in order for that hostage release to move forward.

President Trump just tweeted out a picture of that potential withdrawal map. And I can tell you from looking at it, it is -- it represents the kind of the deepest lines of Israeli control that we have seen presented in any previous ceasefire negotiation. And so you can bet that Hamas is going to want to change those lines as well.

And then big picture -- there is this question of Hamas disarming, which the United States and Israel have said is a condition in order for this war to end. Hamas has yet to publicly address whether or not they are willing to disarm. And so that is going to be a major point of discussion.

So a lot of progress here, a lot of momentum. And I can tell you from speaking with hostage families tonight, that there is a lot of hope in Israel for the first time in a while.

DEAN: Yes, hope for those hostage families that has been few and far between -- very sparse for many, many months now.

Jeremy, one other thing that I think is an interesting point is that Hamas is signaling that it's willing to give its power to Palestinian technocrats. What are they -- what are they -- what are we talking about when we're saying Palestinian technocrats? Who might that be?

[17:04:47]

DIAMOND: Well, under Trump's 20-point plan, there is a postwar governance plan for Gaza. And it does involve the Gaza Strip being overseen day to day by independent Palestinian technocrats, meaning individuals with expertise who aren't necessarily affiliated with any Palestinian faction.

Under Trump's plan that governance board would be overseen by an international peace board, which is the term that's used in this plan that would be chaired by the president and run by individuals such as former British prime minister Tony Blair.

Now Hamas, saying that they are willing to give up power and hand it over to a Palestinian technocratic board of governors of sorts is notable and it is a positive step.

They did not say anything about the kind of international oversight that would be overseeing that. So that could also be a point of discussion.

But really, the bottom line is that Hamas is willing to give up power in a postwar Gaza scenario, which is a requirement of Israel. They are willing to release all 48 hostages right off the bat in exchange for some 250 Palestinian prisoners facing life sentences in Israeli prisons and more than a thousand Gazans who have been detained inside of Israel -- inside of Gaza since the beginning of the war.

The real questions that remain are this issue of disarmament, in particular, those withdrawal lines, are also going to certainly be subject to negotiation.

And then again, overall, this 20-point plan really represents a framework agreement more than anything else. A lot of details are going to need to be brought into that.

And the real question we have now is how many of those details need to be ironed out completely agreed to by both Israel and Hamas in order for that hostage release to go through, in order for Hamas to have the confidence that, you know, by giving up those hostages, this is actually going to lead to an end of the war and ultimately a much larger Israeli withdrawal than the one that happens on the day that the hostages come out.

DEAN: Right. Right. And so we look to see how that moves forward in Egypt with those mediators. But some of those stickiest sticking points, Jeremy, remain.

Thank you so much for that reporting. We really appreciate it.

I want to go to the White House where Julia Benbrook is standing by as well. Julia, obviously President Trump and the administration playing a very big role in all of this. What are you hearing from them tonight?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, on the topic of withdrawal lines, President Donald Trump not too long ago posted on social media to say that Israel had agreed to initial withdrawal lines and once Hamas confirmed that a ceasefire would be effective immediately. But as Jeremy pointed out, there are a lot of sticking points here.

There are still questions about how and when a lasting peace deal could come together.

What we do know is that we have seen momentum. This has been a long- stated goal of Trump to help bring this conflict to an end.

And on Monday, we saw the president host Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu here at the White House. The two leaders sat down for a bilateral meeting. And then during a joint press conference, Netanyahu said that he did support Trump's 20-point plan to bring the war to an end.

It calls for the release of all hostages held by Hamas within 72 hours of an agreement, and lays out a roadmap for Gaza when the war comes to an end.

Now, after receiving a deadline and an ultimatum from Trump, Hamas did say that it would immediately enter negotiations to release the hostages.

But in their response, they stopped short of fully endorsing Trump's full 20-point plan. In remarks from the Oval Office, Trump called this a big day, but he did caution that this is not a done peace deal quite yet.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a big day. We'll see how it all turns out. We have to get the final word down and concrete. Very importantly, I look forward to having the hostages come home to their parents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BENBROOK: In a different post earlier today, I want to pull that one up for you and read it in full. Trump said this. He said, "I appreciate that Israel has temporarily stopped the bombing in order to give the hostage release and peace deal a chance to be completed. Hamas must move quickly or else all bets will be off. I will not tolerate delay, which many think will happen or any outcome where Gaza poses a threat again. Let's get this done fast. Everyone will be treated fairly."

So calling on Hamas to move quickly towards some sort of an agreement, making it clear that this is not just an open-ended opportunity.

Now, as far as how the United States will be involved in ongoing negotiations, multiple officials have confirmed with CNN that Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, as well as Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner, are traveling to Egypt for meetings to discuss this hostage release that Hamas agreed to, as well as next steps toward a peace plan.

[17:09:51] DEAN: All right. Julia Benbrook there at the White House, our thanks to you. And Jeremy Diamond live in Tel Aviv tonight.

We're joined now by former Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren.

Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much for being here with us when there's a lot to digest tonight.

And we just heard from Julia what the -- what the president had said. He just posted this not too long ago, but he said after negotiations, Israel has agreed to the initial withdrawal line, which we have shown to and shared with Hamas. When Hamas confirms the cease fire will be immediately effective, the hostages and prisoner exchange will begin.

We know that these talks are ongoing. The prime minister was optimistic in his remarks tonight.

Where do you come down on all of this? How optimistic are you feeling? Where do you think the sticking points remain?

MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Well, always good to be with you, Jessica. Thank you.

And I'm very cautiously optimistic. Jeremy, Julia -- they're right. There are many, many working parts to this position right now. It's the 20 points. It's the question of the Israeli withdrawal line that Hamas will demand in return for releasing the hostages.

Hamas is evil, but it's not stupid. And it knows that the minute it releases the last hostage, it has no more bargaining power. And these IDF or any other force can go there and eliminate it.

So Hamas is going to demand two things in exchange for the release of those hostages. It's not going to be a done deal. And those two things will -- one thing is that Hamas will keep its guns. And secondly, that Hamas will remain in post war Gaza.

It may not be part of the technological -- technocratic postwar government of Gaza, but Hamas will be there.

Now, according to the 22 points -- 20-points, that's not supposed to happen. Hamas is supposed to demilitarize. And Hamas either has to swear off terror, at which point it no longer is Hamas, or it has to be evicted from the Strip.

So these are going to be the major, major points of contention in the next 24 hours. What is Hamas going to demand in return for the release of those hostages? And what is the United States, together with Israel, willing to give Hamas beyond what is stipulated in the 20- points?

DEAN: And you mentioned the United States and Israel, obviously, two key -- Israel and the U.S., of course, key factors here. But there's also the idea about the other gulf states and the regional partners that they've enlisted to try to force Hamas, thinking about something, you know, like the Qataris and others push Hamas to the table as well. What role do they have in all of this?

OREN: A big role, and they have the ability to pressure Hamas, you know, for many, many months now, almost years, major pressure has been put on Israel, particularly in this country, cutting off arms sales to Israel, particularly in the Democratic Party, I have to say. Cutting off arms sales.

Very few people have suggested, how can we pressure Hamas? And the great beauty of this plan of President Trump is to pressure Hamas. And he's done this through Hamas's allies, the Turks, the Qataris and others.

I think they're fed up. Hamas through its attacks on October 7th, 2023 destabilized the entire Middle East, caused untold destruction and death.

And what begins with Israel Palestine never ends with Israel Palestine. Jessica. It becomes riots in the streets of Cairo or in Riyadh, or even in Istanbul.

And so I think all Middle Eastern states, even if they don't agree with one another or certainly don't agree with Israel or with the United States, all want to put an end to the world and they want -- war and they want to see Hamas out.

They're angry, and even they are not willing to pay a big price to keep Hamas with its guns or Hamas in power in Gaza.

DEAN: Yes. And then quickly just take us inside Netanyahu's government right now, because he has the far right in his government that is very much against this, that he's having to kind of push back and go with President Trump toward a peace deal. How is all of that playing out?

OREN: Yes, he's riding -- he's riding in a rodeo is what he's doing. And it's a question of how long he can stay on, because it's not just the issue of the ceasefire, the hostages.

Many of these parties on the right wing want to continue the war. They want to evict the Palestinians from Gaza. They want to resettle the Gaza Strip, with Israeli settlements.

And beyond that, the 20-points call for discussions with Arab partners toward a credible, what they call a credible pathway to a Palestinian state, and also the involvement of the Palestinian Authority in the future governance of Gaza.

All of that, all of that is a red line for these radical right-wing parties. Netanyahu is coming back and saying to these public, saying, look, we have to keep on the side of Donald Trump, who's been the greatest friend we've ever known. And if we do get peace in Gaza, we'll get peace with Saudi Arabia.

And peace with Saudi Arabia means peace, not just with the most influential Arab country. It's peace with the entire Sunni world, which will be transformative for the state of Israel in the Middle East. That's a powerful message that the prime minister can give to the people of Israel.

DEAN: All right. Former ambassador, Michael Oren, thanks for your time tonight. We appreciate it.

OREN: Thanks, Jessica.

DEAN: Let's turn now to some breaking news as federal agents in Chicago are using tear gas to clear crowds of protesters demonstrating near an ICE facility tonight.

[17:14:48]

DEAN: That same facility has seen weeks of protests against the Trump administration's immigration crackdown.

Let's bring in CNN's Rafael Romo, who joins us with the latest on these intensifying demonstrations. And Rafael, we continue to see, really, the heat turning up here.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Jessica.

And we have to put this in context. There have been protests in the Chicago area for weeks. There was a big clash yesterday between federal agents and protesters, and there are more protests happening again today in the Windy City right now.

In the last couple of hours, law enforcement has used tear gas in an effort to disperse protesters.

And Jessica, this is happening the same day President Donald Trump appears to be willing to make use of the National Guard.

Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker made the comment in a statement he published Saturday, announcing that the Trump administration intends to federalize 300 members of the Illinois National Guard.

This statement goes on to say the following. "They will pull hard working Americans out of their regular jobs and away from their families, all to participate in a manufactured performance, not a serious effort to protect the public safety.

For Donald Trump," he said, "this has never been about safety. This is about control."

In another worrying development, this weekend, the Department of Homeland Security has confirmed there was a shooting Saturday morning at an Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention center for migrants in Broadview, just outside Chicago, where 18 people were arrested Friday.

In a statement that top DHS officials said that law enforcement officers were rammed by vehicles and boxed in by ten cars. Unable to move their vehicles, agents exited the car and they saw that one of the drivers had a semiautomatic weapon, which prompted the agents to fire what officials are calling defensive shots at the armed U.S. citizen as that U.S. citizen, the DHS statement said, drove herself to the hospital to get care for her wounds. No one else was injured.

In reaction to the shooting, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem said on X that she is deploying more special operations to control the scene. Reinforcements, she said, are on their on their way.

Tensions boiled over at the same location Friday when protesters clashed with federal agents during a protest outside the ICE facility, while Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem and border patrol commander Gregory Bovino were seen on the ICE facility's roof.

At least 18 people were arrested at the site, where protesters have gathered for several weeks in a row to protest the Trump administration's crackdown on immigration.

And here's this at a Democratic party fundraiser here in Atlanta Friday night, Illinois governor J.B. Pritzker denounced ICE actions in his states -- in his state, I should say, over the last few weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. J.B PRITZKER (D-IL): In the past Few weeks In Chicago, ICE has detained multiple U.S. citizens because they were black or brown.

They shot gas pellets into the car of a journalist who had done nothing except drive past an ICE facility to observe what was going on.

They raided an apartment complex in the middle of the night, and perp walked a group of young children out of the building with their hands zip-tied behind them separating them from their parents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Finally Jessica, according to DHS, more than 1,000 undocumented immigrants have been arrested since early September as part of what officials call Operation Midway Blitz, Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Rafael Romo with the very latest. Thank you for that reporting.

Still to come tonight, Republican Congressman Mike Lawler joins us on day four of the ongoing government shutdown.

What's next? Is there any resolution in sight? We'll talk to him coming up.

[17:18:31]

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DEAN: It is day four of the government shutdown. Right now, there is no end in sight. Lawmakers have left Washington for the weekend. It's more than likely the shutdown will extend into at least a second week. Health care has emerged as a center point of the fight. Democrats and

Republicans divided over how to proceed on enhanced subsidies for health insurance plans under the Affordable Care Act.

Those tax credits are set to expire at the end of the year. According to one estimate, typical premiums would more than double, going up by an average of 114 percent.

Democrats are pushing to extend the subsidies now, because that hike in premiums could become a reality in just weeks, with enrollments set to begin November 1st in some states.

Republicans have argued that that debate will only happen. They only want to have that debate once the government is reopened.

Let's bring in New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler. Congressman, thank you so much for being here with us on this Saturday evening. We really appreciate it.

I first just want to ask you, there is some reporting by Politico that Speaker Mike Johnson has talked to you all and kind of laid out. He'll let you know -- he's going to give you 48 hours' notice.

Can you confirm that? What have you been told?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Yes, I'm not going to get into the details of the conference call that we had. But we generally have a 48-hour notice on when we come back to Washington, If we're going to come back in an unscheduled way. So, that in and of itself is normally how it works.

But look, this is the Schumer shutdown. And as you point out, we're headed into the second week of it.

[17:24:42]

LAWLER: Chuck Schumer and Senate Democrats have completely reversed their previous position on the issue of clean CRs and keeping the government open and funded.

And during Joe Biden's presidency, voted 13 times to pass clean CRs and keep the government open and funded.

So the unfortunate reality here is this is not about health care. This is about Democrats wanting to show their progressive left base that they are fighting against Donald Trump and Chuck Schumer being petrified of a primary from AOC. And that really is ultimately what this is about.

The issue of health care. I've already signed on to legislation that would extend the Affordable Care Act subsidies that were put in place during COVID to help folks through that difficult time.

I have signed on to legislation to extend that by a year. A number of my colleagues are open to supporting that. Leader Thune has said there can be a negotiation on that. But as Chuck Schumer previously pointed out, you don't pound your fist

on the table. You don't stomp your feet, you don't hold the American people hostage over a single policy issue.

And when Republicans have tried to do this in the past, I have criticized it. I voted for every CR under Joe Biden, and I'm criticizing it now when Democrats are trying to do it.

If you give in to this type of behavior, this will happen every single time we run up against a government funding lapse. And you will have people demanding all sorts of things, and it will create chaos.

This is not what you do, and you certainly don't act like this if you're the leader of the Democratic Party. Chuck Schumer should be embarrassed by his behavior here.

DEAN: So, Congressman, in the interim, I hear you on all of that. President Trump, while this is going on, has taken aim at several blue states and in your home state of New York, you do not -- your district is not in New York City.

But I'm sure that many of your constituents are here and do work here and that sort of thing. You're probably here seeing people as well. But he's taking aim at some infrastructure projects, cutting that funding for that.

So it's a tunnel that would connect New York and New Jersey. And then also the expansion of a subway line. Those types of things affect Democrats and Republicans in New York City. And anyone Democrats and Republicans who come to New York City. Do you think that's the right thing to be doing in this moment?

LAWLER: Well, by the way, the Gateway Project directly impacts my district and the ability of a one-seat ride from Rockland County, where I live and represent into the city.

So it is bigger than just New York City, for sure. So it's not just about impacting Democrats or targeting Democrat states.

The fact is, it's an $18 billion project. And unless the government is funded and open, it is hard to obviously make guarantee that you have the resources for all of these critical projects.

I have come out against these proposed cuts, obviously, and am working with the administration to reverse it.

But there's a fundamental truth here, which is if Chuck Schumer would literally do his job and vote to open up the government, a lot of these issues wouldn't even be a consideration or a discussion.

So there's a very simple solution, which is to get back to work, vote yes on a clean CR, which Chuck Schumer has done time in memoriam and open up the government. And I'm pretty sure these funds will be available for critical infrastructure projects like the Second Avenue subway and like Gateway. DEAN: And look, you, as you mentioned, you're open to extending these

subsidies. You've signed on to legislation that would extend that for people.

Why not just have that conversation now? And Democrats say, great, and you reopen the government.

LAWLER: Because that's not the way you legislate. You don't legislate at the end of a barrel. And Democrats have repeatedly lectured Republicans and America that you can't just pound your fist and demand your way.

Look, many of my Republican colleagues wanted to shut down the government last Congress over Joe Biden's open border policies. While I agreed with them about the need to end the open borders, I did not agree about shutting down the government.

You have Democrats like Jared Golden who have spoken out and said, this is ridiculous. He voted to keep government funded and open. He was the only Democrat that joined us in the House. And he's called out his leadership saying, they're doing this to appease their progressive left base.

It's wrong. This is not about health care. This is not about a specific policy issue. This is about Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries being petrified of their left flank and wanting to stand up for their base that is demanding they oppose anything and everything Donald Trump does.

The fact is that the CR is a continuation of Biden-era spending levels. This was previously agreed upon. There's nothing to negotiate. There's nothing to change.

[17:29:48]

LAWLER: This is a clean CR to keep the government open and funded. So from my vantage point, I've been consistent in this.

Chuck Schumer should immediately reverse what he is doing now. Do the right thing, grow a spine, stand up to AOC and the radical left, and pass government funding so we can get back to work.

DEAN: Does it concern you? "The Washington" posted a poll on who's responsible for the government shutdown, and 47 percent of American people said it's Republicans.

LAWLER: I am not concerned about it. And honestly, if we spend our time just governing based on polling, you never get anything done. The fact is, we have maintained a consistent position here, which is to keep the government open and funded.

House, Republicans passed a clean C.R. two weeks ago. Democrats voted it down. Chuck Schumer and Senate Democrats have blocked every clean C.R., including yesterday that would have opened up the government. They had three Democratic senators join the Republicans because they know this is wrong. They know there is no reason for this. And by the way, Democrats have admitted that they have shut the government down.

You have Democratic members like Tina Smith, saying, this is our only chance at leverage against the Trump administration. This is just not the way you govern. And so, from my vantage point, Democrats should stick to what they -- their position was under Joe Biden, which is that clean C.R.s are good, opening up the government and keeping it funded is good, and shutting it down is bad.

They should get back to what their previous position was, and something that I've maintained, regardless of who the president is.

DEAN: All right. Congressman Mike Lawler, thank you so much for your time tonight. We appreciate it.

LAWLER: Thank you.

DEAN: We'll be right back.

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[17:36:04]

DEAN: We are awaiting a judge's decision on whether to block President Trump from sending National Guard troops into Portland, Oregon. The judge who was nominated by President Trump is set to decide if the law stands with the president or with Oregon, which is seeking a temporary restraining order.

And joining us now is the Democratic governor of the State of Oregon Tina Kotek.

Governor, thank you so much for being here with us. We really appreciate it. I just first want to get your thoughts on this delay in this ruling, what you're reading into that, if anything.

GOV. TINA KOTEK (D-OR): Well, thank you for having me. We are waiting patiently. I am hoping, cautiously optimistic. We made Oregon made a very strong case yesterday that this deployment, this order from the president, does not match the truth on the ground here, and hopefully, we'll hear from the Court this afternoon. This is a really important moment for us, and frankly, I think an important moment for the country.

DEAN: And the U.S. Deputy Assistant Attorney General has accused demonstrators of blocking the entrance to an ICE facility there, following ICE agents' home, throwing incendiary devices, rocks, bricks at law enforcement. What do you say to those accusations?

KOTEK: Well, the Trump administration is making a lot of allegations, and what we know, and we heard this yesterday in the hearing in the courtroom, that they were looking back at, you know, situations back in June. It is now October, and what is happening? There are -- there are demonstrations. Portland police are managing it. If anyone pass -- crosses a line into unlawful activity, it's being dealt with. I think the challenge here is, what is the truth? We know what the truth is on the ground. I'm the governor, the mayor, the police here in the City of Portland know the situation, and it just does not match what the federal government is saying.

I'd like to talk a little bit about my conversation this morning with Governor Pritzker from Illinois. We are now seeing a pattern. A week ago, I received notice that, Governor, you have 12 hours to decide if you want to call up the National Guard or if I'm going to call it up. That's what the president asked.

Governor Pritzker received a similar notice today. They were only given two hours to make that decision. This is a pattern by President Trump to intimidate states where there is no real national emergency to deploy military troops. This is chilling. It's unprecedented, and it is unlawful.

DEAN: And to that point, can you tell us a little bit about the interactions you've had with the president, the communication you've had with the president?

KOTEK: Well, I haven't spoken with the president since last week, where I was trying to understand the rationale. And what we're seeing now is there is there is no connection between what he thinks the truth on the ground in Portland. We -- the police are managing the situation. People have the ability to lawfully express their right to free speech, and if there is a situation, criminal activity, violent activity, it is being dealt with.

One of the things we are seeing is incidents between protesters and counter protesters. The facility is being monitored. People are able to go about their jobs. But people are also saying that they disagree with the Trump administration when it comes to immigration enforcement.

You could have two things. They can do their job, and we can lawfully protest. And that is what you are seeing in Portland.

DEAN: And so, as we await this judge's decision, take us through what happens next once this ruling comes down. What is your plan, one way or the other?

KOTEK: Well, I'm hoping for a ruling in our favor, because I think what we have shown is that this deployment is unnecessary. We are not in the middle of an insurrection or rebellion. There is no national security threat here in Oregon.

And so, we will continue to monitor the situation with the police in the City of Portland. If the Court rules against us, we will appeal. I want to -- hats off to my attorney general who is been working very hard on this issue. We believe we have a strong case, and we will appeal if we are not successful in the Court today.

[17:40:01]

DEAN: All right. Governor Tina Kotek, thank you for your time. We really appreciate it.

KOTEK: Thank you. Appreciate you.

DEAN: More news when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Happening today, Munich Airport, again, experiencing disruptions due to drone sightings in recent weeks. This, has also been reported in Denmark and Norway. The Danish prime minister has pointed to the threat from Russia though the Kremlin has denied involvement.

Joining us now, CNN senior military analyst and former NATO supreme allied commander, Admiral James Stavridis.

[17:45:06]

He is also a partner at the Carlyle Group, a global investment firm, and author of the new historical novel, "The Restless Wave". That's coming out on Tuesday. Congratulations, Admiral. Always good to have you on.

I want to start first with what we were just talking about, the Kremlin is denying involvement in these drone incursions, but there is no question that Russia poses a security threat. So, what is Putin stand to gain from this? If he is indeed behind it, what is the goal here?

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: I think he is uncertainly, absolutely behind these incursions, as well as the ones that have gone into Poland, in Romania. He is probing all around the red countries you're showing there on the map. And he's doing it, Jessica, I think, for three reasons.

One is he wants to see the tactical response. How quickly is NATO getting our air defenses up? How credible are our radar systems? He wants the tactical info from doing this.

Number two, he wants to try and create some kind of a fission in the NATO alliance. Because, let's face it, if you are out in the eastern part of the alliance, in the countries you just showed on the map, you are more likely to be very concerned about this than if you're in Spain, for example.

So, you can see where the countries further to the west are less concerned, less tendency to be aggressive in response. Those on the eastern flank, which are showing are the ones that will respond vigorously, that will create a division.

And then, third, and finally, I think what Vladimir Putin is after here is to try and draw resources away from Ukraine. Meaning that if the NATO countries need to put up stronger air defenses, that's less aid they can provide to Ukraine.

So, from Putin's perspective, this can accomplish all three of those things. I think, undoubtedly Russia is behind these incursions. DEAN: Right. And so, to that point, European officials met this week to build what a source is telling Sean and is a, in their words, defense readiness roadmap that consists of four defense projects, including a drone wall.

If you were still the supreme allied commander, what would your response be? What would you think?

STAVRIDIS: I like the idea of increasing on the defensive side. So, more anti air warfare, more anti-drone systems. Use jamming electronically to go after them, use cyber to attack them. That's the defend quotient. What I would be advocating for, and I would guess my successor, who is an air force general and rock-solid officer who was on my staff when I was supreme allied commander of NATO, I suspect he is advocating for more offense, meaning, give the Ukrainians more offensive capability. Give the Russians a taste of what they are trying to deal out to NATO, I think you need both offense and defense if we're going to stop Putin.

DEAN: All right. Admiral. James Stavridis, as always, thanks for being here. We appreciate it.

STAVRIDIS: Thanks, Jess.

DEAN: More CNN NEWSROOM, right after this.

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[17:53:01]

DEAN: From gumbo to beignets. New Orleans is celebrated for its food, but where did its cuisine come from? It's the focus of the new CNN Original Series "NEW ORLEANS: SOUL OF A CITY". And the first episode looks at how people are reexamining history through a pot of gumbo.

The series premieres tomorrow night at 10:00 Eastern and Pacific.

First responders are there to serve others in a crisis, but the people who do this work often find it hard to seek the help and the mental support they need, and that's where this week's CNN Hero Heidi Carman and her golden retriever step in.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEIDI CARMAN, FOUNDER, FIRST RESPONDER THERAPHY DOGS: To fight the fires in California is like a war zone. It's grueling work, it's smoky, it's hot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, posted it, guys?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CARMAN: It's dangerous. They go for a minimum of two weeks, 24 hours on, 24 hours off.

That stress, to have it lightened with a therapy dog visit is priceless. We got Kerith in 2018 and we were training her to become a working guide dog.

She was just too friendly to every single person, so, I started doing therapy dog work with her.

During the 2020 fire season, going around to fire base camps. She was so good at just making the firefighters feel better. I started posting pictures on her Instagram. Then, I was getting messages, can you come to my husband's Police Department? I'm like, yes, sure.

Now, we have hundreds of therapy dog teams across the entire country. We go to firebase camps, fire stations, police departments, 911 dispatch centers. All first responders would benefit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The average adult male lives around 18 years longer than the average adult police officer, and that is often because of chronic stress. And oftentimes as a defense mechanism, we close up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just for first responders?

[17:55:01]

CARMAN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she is so soft.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we are around emotional support animals, you just see that all sort of melt away.

CARMAN: Cortisol levels go down. The endorphin levels go up. I can feel that goodness just coming up a leash.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just to have a dog come by. She can't talk, can't ask questions. It can kind of break the ice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I missed you too.

The first time I met Kerith, I had undiagnosed PTSD. She just picked up on it right away. She just went nose to nose with me, and we just had a moment, and it broke me down. This is my wake-up call, that I needed to go to therapy. The man's best friend for a reason.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have helped so many people. I'm grateful to Kerith for showing me the way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: For the full story about Heidi and her important work, and to see more of those adorable therapy dogs, you can go to cnn.com/heroes.

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