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Israelis Await Hostages' Release As Palestinians Return Home; President Trump Expected To Visit Israel On Monday; Chicago's Latino Community On Edge; Federal Workforce Hit With Layoffs; Aid Shipments Into Gaza Begin To Flow As Ceasefire Takes Hold; Multiple Federal Agencies Receive Layoff Notices. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 11, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:37]
SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Sara Sidner in New York. Jessica Dean is off tonight.
We begin in Israel where the families of 48 hostages held by Hamas are anxiously waiting for their loved ones to return home. It is believed at least 20 of those taken by Hamas are still alive. The release is part of a phase one all parties agreed on for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza. President Trump expected to arrive in Israel on Monday.
And just a short time ago, tens of thousands of people -- look at those pictures -- gathering in Hostages Square in Tel Aviv to celebrate the ceasefire deal and the impending return of hostages. A giant banner you see there unfurled at the rally urging a Nobel Peace Prize for Mr. Trump, though the prize was given to a Venezuelan opposition member. The crowd cheered as U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff thanked the U.S. president for his role in the ceasefire with chants of, "Thank you, Trump," repeatedly interrupting Witkoff's speech.
Now in Gaza, tens of thousands of Palestinians, many on foot, are beginning to return to what is left of their homes. With about 70 percent of buildings destroyed in Gaza over two years of brutal Israeli bombardments, many people are being greeted only by complete ruin.
Also, as part of the deal with Hamas, desperately needed humanitarian aid is finally moving into Gaza after Israel agreed to allow 600 trucks filled with food, shelter, supplies and medical equipment to enter the area day by day by day.
We are covering the story from multiple angles as you might imagine.
CNN Jerusalem bureau chief Oren Liebermann is in Tel Aviv for us, while our international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Sharm El-Sheikh, Egypt, the site of where the ceasefire talks have been happening.
I want to start with the latest from Tel Aviv.
Oren, what are you learning about how the hostage release could play out? This is a very delicate situation because we're talking about not only those hostages who are still alive, but the bodies of the hostages who have been killed. What are you learning?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: So now it's fundamentally a question of timing. The pieces are in place. U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff is in the region. President Donald Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, is here. The military has begun its withdrawal to the lines agreed upon in the ceasefire in Gaza. And we're waiting on the release of 48 hostages, 20 of whom are believed to be alive. The deadline for that is noon on Monday, so we're waiting to see when this occurs. Perhaps tomorrow afternoon, perhaps overnight Sunday into Monday. But our expectation is that it occurs before we expect Trump himself in the region.
Hamas will hand over the hostages to the Red Cross. The Red Cross will then hand over the hostages to the Israeli military inside of Gaza, who will then bring them out outside of Gaza, back into Israel for the first time in two years. An initial medical screening just outside the border there, and then to hospitals in Israel, where they will begin their recovery.
Again, the only question now is the timing. But there is this tremendous sense of anticipation, and you can feel it pretty much wherever you go. And you certainly felt it in Hostages Square throughout the entire day. A small group of hundreds of people in the square earlier today turned into a mob of thousands, 400,000, according to the Hostages and Missing Families Forum that came out to see Witkoff and Kushner speak.
And every time Witkoff said the name Trump, you heard the roar of applause, the roar of thanks for the U.S. president who made this ceasefire agreement happen and basically forced it across the line certainly on the Israeli side as mediators like Qatar and Egypt and Turkey forced it over the line on the side of Hamas, bringing us to this point, after two years of war, a ceasefire, the return of the hostages.
Again, Sara, that anticipation is in the air. It's also worth noting that when Witkoff tried to thank Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, that crowd let out a massive and long boo repeatedly each time he mentioned Netanyahu, who has never been to Hostages Square over two years of war.
SIDNER: Yes. That is significant. And it tells you something about where Israelis are when it comes to his leadership when speaking about Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
[16:05:00]
I do want to ask you about Gaza. We are seeing these extraordinary pictures of tens of thousands of people returning, trying to see what is left of their homes. There is not much there as you well know.
What is the short-term future look like in Gaza, as we are also seeing this desperately needed aid trucks that are entering there?
LIEBERMANN: We saw scores, perhaps several hundred aid trucks enter in. A larger amount that has gone in before of that desperately needed aid. That is just the beginning. First, it's important to point out that crucially for Gazans, there is a ceasefire. There is no more bombardment, no more killing of Palestinians, no more fear of more incoming strikes.
And Israel's offensive there, although there are still Israeli forces in a large part of Gaza under the ceasefire agreement, the offensive, the assault on Gaza has stopped. Tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are able to return north to Gaza City. And frankly, they're returning to much of ruin, to devastation after what has been wrought on Gaza after two years of war here.
The hope, at least in the short term here, is that a rebuilding process will begin. That's phase two of the Trump 20-point peace proposal. The first is phase one. That's what we'll see play out over the course of the next 48 or 72 hours. The release of the hostages, the release of Palestinian prisoners and detainees. Phase two begins the rebuilding of Gaza, a security apparatus.
But, Sara, that requires the details to be worked out and that in and of itself will be difficult.
SIDNER: Very, very complicated. You've been in the region a long time. You know how difficult phase two will certainly be.
Let's go now to Egypt, where our Nic Robertson is and has been as these talks have gotten underway.
We're expecting President Trump to arrive in Israel on Monday before heading to Sharm El-Sheikh, where you are now. What are you expecting to see when it comes to this first phase and a potential signing ceremony?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, this is characterized as a summit by the Egyptian leadership, which are hosting this and hosted the last round and the sort of final round of talks that pushed the phase one over the line. And there'll be a lot of people here. There will be some sort of signing ceremony. What's being signed, who signs it, will the Israelis -- will Prime Minister Netanyahu have signed it before the document gets here?
None of that is clear at the moment. But what we do know is the leaders that were involved in supporting this from Europe, the French President Emmanuel Macron, who just in the past couple of days has hosted a meeting to kind of hammer out the after day one things that are required humanitarian steps, rebuilding steps for Gaza. He'll be here. The Italian prime minister, the German chancellor, the British prime minister.
The British prime minister says he's going to come here. He'll praise the Egyptians, the Qataris, the Turks, all who helped mediate this or praised President Trump for what he did. But he'll also say, look, we have to focus. And this is what you were raising there on phase two. We have to focus, he will say, on the -- on the force that will oversee the disarmament, that will oversee the ceasefire and international security force. The Hill say we need to focus on building that and also discuss, you
know, the details around forming this transitional government. Also at the summit, you'll have the leaders of what's been called now the New York Eight. Those are the eight Muslim majority and Arab leaders who met with President Trump, who listened to his 21-point plan, became a 20-point plan. So you'll have obviously the Egyptian president, the Turkish president, Jordanian king will be here.
The Emiratis will be represented here. The crown prince of Saudi Arabia is expected here. So too the Indonesian leader, the Pakistan leader under -- as well as a couple of others there, Sara.
SIDNER: Yes. What you're describing will be an absolutely remarkable scene. And I'm so glad that you are there, someone who has been in the region for many decades and seeing so many things happen in the region. But this is particularly remarkable.
Nic Robertson, glad you're there. Thank you so much to you and your crew.
For more on this breaking story, let's turn now to CNN's senior White House reporter, Kevin Liptak.
Kevin, we've been listening to the fact that Donald Trump is expected to be in Israel on Monday. What is the White House saying about all of this, this deal and what they are expecting as he arrives on Monday?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And I think the sentiments in this building were probably best reflected by something Jared Kushner said in Hostages Square in the last couple of hours, which was certainly praising this deal. A sense of anticipation, but also that they were not going to celebrate until they see all of those hostages coming out of Gaza.
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And there is, you know, the feeling among administration officials that this is still quite a fragile moment. This deal is a delicate one, and no one is going to breathe easy until they see all of those hostages released. As one U.S. official said at the end of last week, there is still just a lot that can go wrong here. That's part of the reason why Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff are still in the region, which is essentially to ensure that all of the details are buttoned up to adjudicate any misunderstandings between all of the sides here, and ensure that this deal actually gets across the finish line.
We did see Witkoff and Kushner alongside the CENTCOM commander inside Gaza earlier today. CENTCOM is playing an essential role here. The White House has said that 200 U.S. troops will be part of monitoring this ceasefire deal to ensure that it holds. And so I think a lot of anticipation at the White House and in the administration leading up to the president's trip, which will begin tomorrow.
He's expected to address the Israeli Knesset. He will then go to Sharm El-Sheikh to do the signing ceremony to participate in this summit of world leaders. But I think this will be a valedictory moment for the president. It's by far the biggest diplomatic accomplishment of his second term so far. At the same officials acknowledged that there is a lot of roads to go there, a lot of tricky, thorny issues that will be discussed in phase two, whether Hamas disarms, what the governance of Gaza will look like going forward.
Ultimately, this question of the Palestinian state. All of that still be resolved, but at least for President Trump, probably his sentiments best summed up with what he said yesterday, which was, quote, "They're all tired of the fighting."
SIDNER: Yes. Having lived in both Jerusalem and been to Gaza several times myself as a reporter for CNN, that is a sentiment that could speak to many, many decades of fighting.
I do want to turn to another really big story and another war, that of the war in Ukraine. I understand that President Trump spoke with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy today. What can you tell us about what happened on that call?
LIPTAK: Yes, and it's interesting because this is obviously now the conflict that the president very much wants to get sorted. A lot like Gaza it's been a massive frustration of his for the last eight months or so. And it was interesting, in this phone call, Zelenskyy calling it positive and productive, but also saying to the president that if a war can be stopped in one region, then surely other wars can be stopped as well, including the Russian war, suggesting that the president's ability to bring the Gaza conflict to an end could potentially serve as momentum to get the Ukraine conflict resolved.
How that happens, of course, remains to be seen. Vladimir Putin has shown no indication to let up in Ukraine so far. I think the big item that these two men will have discussed is the question of these long range Tomahawk missiles. That's something that Zelenskyy has been asking the president to provide for quite some time. That would allow Ukraine to strike much deeper into Russia than it has the ability to now.
The president said last week that he had made a decision on those Tomahawks, but wanted to get more clarity from Ukraine about how precisely it plans to use them. We don't have any indication that the president has allowed those shipments to go forward, but obviously this is now the conflict that will be the president's front of mind as he works to resolve all of these global flashpoints -- Sara.
SIDNER: Yes. Kevin Liptak, there is a lot to do in the world. Live for us there at the White House. Thank you for your reporting today.
Still ahead, National Guard troops now in the streets of Memphis as judges have stopped the Trump administration from deploying troops in Chicago and Portland. We talked to a member of Chicago's Latino Leadership Council as the president's immigration crackdown takes a toll in his community.
Plus, no end in sight for the government shutdown. New details in the Trump promised layoffs that are now taking place across the federal workforce. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll be right back.
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SIDNER: We're just getting this in. A federal appeals court ruling that the National Guard troops in Illinois can stay under federal control, but they cannot be deployed. As the ongoing legal fight between the Trump administration and the state continues the court agreed to temporarily pause part of a lower court's order this week that halted any deployment within Illinois for two weeks. The appeals court said that troops do not have to return to their home states unless they are ordered by a court to do so.
Berto Aguayo joining us now. He is the policy co-chair of the Latino Leadership Council.
Thank you so much for taking time on this Saturday, Berto, to speak with us. Let me start with this.
What is the sentiment among especially the immigrant population in Chicago right now, having seen some pretty dramatic and drastic deployment of ICE, never mind the troops who were just on the outskirts?
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BERTO AGUAYO, POLICY CO-CHAIR, LATINO LEADERSHIP COUNCIL: Yes. No, thank you for having me. And to your question, the sentiment right now in our community and in our city is our city is under siege. Our communities are being terrorized and torn apart. And every single person who looks brown is scared because, you know, despite their claim that they're going after the worst of the worst, they're going after citizens and undocumented people alike.
Reports show that over 71 percent of people have been detained, have no criminal records. They're going after families. They're going after tamales street vendors. They're going after people just coming outside of Home Depot. And that's what we're witnessing on the ground. And that's what we're seeing.
SIDNER: You know, it's clear that the directive for ICE and what they're doing has changed. Initially the Trump administration said this was about violent criminals, that they were going to get people who were convicted of crimes off the street. But it has morphed. And one of the things we've heard from the administration is that, well, you are considered a criminal just for illegally crossing the border. What do you say to the administration when it comes to that?
AGUAYO: Yes, I think one of the things that we've seen is, you know, they've said themselves that they are going based on how people look, and that is not right. That is not OK. And that is not normal. And we've also seen, you know, they are pulling every lever of provocation to then justify further military escalation. What we are seeing is that, you know, they are tear-gassing peaceful protesters. They are zip-tying U.S. citizens and children in the middle of the
night. They are shooting pepper balls at priests and they are doing all of these things, and yet, despite their best efforts at provoking and getting that reaction to further justify military escalation, we are not taking the bait. And we are standing firm and united and peaceful in demanding respect for our rights and demanding that we protect our constitutional rights. And I think this is a wake-up call for every American that, one, this is not OK, but that this goes beyond just an immigration issue.
This is now a civil rights and human rights issue. And we must stand up for each other, peacefully protest, because your city could be next. You know, your state could be next. And this should not be OK in any community.
SIDNER: I do want to ask you about what happened in the South Side of Chicago, at a very large apartment complex. You had just mentioned that you have reports of children being zip-tied, people being snatched from their beds nude, taken out into the cold, waiting, who were American citizens. Illinois and the governor has promised that there is going to be an investigation.
Do you know anything about how that is moving forward? Are you involved in it? And what are you hearing about what did happen at that particular Chicago apartment building where even a Black Hawk helicopter was involved in a raid there?
AGUAYO: Yes. So all of those things are happening, and I can't speak to the ongoing investigation. But what I can tell you is what we're doing, and what we're seeing is, despite all these levels of provocation, we are seeing communities unite. We are seeing we are rapidly deploying attorney volunteers on the scene to provide legal support. We are seeing community groups in the South Side and the North Side and the suburbs form community groups to stand by outside of schools so that as students are being led out of dismissal, at their dismissal, that their parents or themselves are not snatched up by federal authorities.
And that's what we're seeing on the ground that despite all of these things happening and despite these levels of provocation, we are seeing our community stand firm. Our community demand respect for our rights, giving know your rights information, protecting one another. And that's also what we're asking of everyone that in this moment we need to stand up for one another. We need to protect one another.
We need to help out our street vendors. We need to help out our people who can't go to the groceries because they're too scared to come out. We need to rapidly deploy attorney volunteers to provide legal support and record everything. That is one of the things that has helped us to show America what is happening in our city and show them these civil rights abuses and expose the cruelty that's happening.
And so we are asking everybody, record everything, alert your neighbors and protect one another. And so that's one of the things that has been kind of, you know, beautiful to see our community unite to protect one another in this moment and not take the bait and stand firm to demand respect for our rights.
SIDNER: Berto Aguayo, thank you so much for coming on and discussing this with me.
[16:25:01]
And we just had mentioned that the court has just ruled that troops are allowed to stay in the area, but cannot be deployed at this point in time.
All right. Coming up, as families in Tel Aviv and Gaza celebrate the ceasefire deal, many are wondering what exactly happens after the hostages are returned home. Why the next phase in the deal between Israel and Hamas could be crucial for the potential of lasting peace in the region?
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SIDNER: All right. We want to stick with our breaking news out of the Middle East, where we could soon begin to see the first hostages released in phase one of the latest ceasefire deal.
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Tens of thousands of Palestinians now have started returning home in Gaza. And if you look at these pictures, you can see what they are returning home to. They are heading to ruin. And at the moment, humanitarian aid, though, is beginning to arrive again in significant numbers. But questions remain about what happens next in phase two of the deal.
Joining me now, Axios senior contributor Margaret Talev and former Middle East negotiator for the State Department, Aaron David Miller.
We have a great panel for you.
Aaron. I want to start with you. This phase one involves Hamas agreeing to release all of the hostages. And I guess the big question is, how delicate is this right now? Because while people are celebrating in Hostages Square in Tel Aviv there is always the chance that it doesn't happen the way everyone thinks it's going to happen. What are your concerns?
AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: You know, hard to predict. And thanks for having me. Great to be with Margaret. You know, the previous two ceasefires in November of 2023 and January 2025, there were, in fact, bumps in the road. I suspect it's always possible that there may be delays, particularly over the list of Palestinians that Hamas wants released.
But I suspect that within the next two days, you're going to see -- you've already seen the part of implementation. The Israelis have withdrawn to a yellow line, not out of Gaza. They still control 53 percent of it. And as you mentioned, the U.N. is already starting in a calmer environment to deliver essential humanitarian assistance. So I'm fairly confident, I usually default to the negative when it comes to Israeli-Palestinian anything for 20 years, mostly failing at these negotiations. So I think there's a reasonable chance that you will, in fact, see phase one implementation.
SIDNER: Margaret, I am just curious from you because we know that in this case that Hamas may not know where some of the deceased, in particular, are. What are your thoughts on if all families who are waiting, all 48 families will actually get to see their loved ones, the 20 who are alive and the rest who have been killed?
MARGARET TALEV, INSTITUTE FOR DEMOCRACY, JOURNALISM AND CITIZENSHIP, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: Yes, Sara, this has been one of the biggest questions of phase one. And of course, when we talk about this ceasefire at the beginnings of a peace deal, this phase one, we are focused on the release of the hostages and there are hostages who are still alive and those who were taken hostage who are not.
And then, of course after next week, after the initial round of what is happening and then the political reaction to it at home and abroad, we're going to begin to see some of the difficulties of even phase two. How long can this continue and what will Hamas's role in Gaza be? But I think at this moment, for Americans watching this, you're looking at an issue that has hugely divided the Democratic Party, that has changed Americans' political opinion about Israel, that since, you know, for the last, more than half century Americans have been closely allied with the Israeli people.
And we've begun to see in recent weeks public opinion flip. People are more sympathetic now toward Palestinian civilians than toward Israeli civilians. That is a big change in American politics. And I think while that's been a political challenge for Democrats, it also added to the pressure on President Trump to try to find the leverage here because you've begun to see some concern inside, even the MAGA base and the Republican base, about the U.S. relationship with Israel and about the Netanyahu government.
SIDNER: Yes. I mean, we've looked at some of the polling that Harry Enten has brought to us that shows it is the younger people who are starting to really shift the mindset about whether they support Israel or the Palestinian people. And there is a real shift there.
Aaron, I do want to ask you this. Phase two. This seems to be, when you consider what is at stake, the most difficult part of this, which is, how do you rebuild? I think it's something like 70 percent of buildings have been destroyed in Gaza. Who is the security force? Who is going to run Gaza? These are huge issues.
Where do you start and what do you think the big stumbling blocks will be?
MILLER: Well, there's -- I mean, every point in this plan contains a universe of detail and complexity that are going to need to be negotiated out. Let's be clear about something. I mean, very clear. The reason two ceasefires never got beyond phase one is because there's a fundamental impasse in the way both Hamas and the Netanyahu government perceived their respective objectives.
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Netanyahu government understandably wants Hamas not only eradicated as a military organization, but they wanted extinguished as a political entity. And Hamas wants to survive politically to extend its influence in the West Bank and to ultimately take over the Palestinian National Movement. That has been the fundamental impasse all along. So before we get to reconstruction, we have to consider the two of the core issues in this plan.
Number one is decommissioning, demilitarizing Hamas's weapons, and the tunnel infrastructure. Even if the Israelis managed over the last two years to destroy 30 percent to 40 percent of that tunnel infrastructure, it is still almost half the length of the New York subway system. And then you have the issue of the international stabilization force.
What Arab or Muslim countries are going to deploy their forces if Hamas still has its weapons and the Israelis are deployed into Gaza? They're not going to kill Palestinians and they're not going to hold Israel's coat while the Israelis kill Palestinians. So these are the issues.
And I conclude by saying this, Sara. Phase one of this plan is really quite extraordinary because it removes the hostage issue completely. And once that is removed, Israel's justification and capacity to wage the kind of war that they've waged over the last two years is going to diminish. And once that diminishes, the amount of humanitarian assistance can actually surge in. So my point is, when Gaza loses its urgency, as it may, it may well be that the president of the United States, and that's the reason we're even having this conversation.
No American president I ever worked for, Republican or Democrat, has been able to deploy the kind of pressure or talk to an Israeli prime minister the way Trump has. Trump could easily lose interest. He's added this to the eighth conflict that he has resolved, of course, resolving none of them. So that's the real paradox. It could get better and interest will be lost.
SIDNER: And of course, you've got the ever ongoing war in Ukraine. And he was talking to the president of Ukraine as well. And that is brewing and can certainly take his attention away.
Margaret, I do want to lastly ask you, when the U.N. gathered for the U.N. General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership from the Palestinian Authority wasn't even given visas to be able to come into the country and state their case. And so, I guess to you, as someone who's been involved in negotiations, what do you do here? You've got Qatar, which has put a lot of money into Gaza in the past to help rebuild.
You've got Egypt as a neighbor, you've got Turkey, all of them playing roles in this. When you look at the region, I mean, who steps forward that you see, that may be able to help push forward phase two?
TALEV: Yes. I think we're going to begin to see with President Trump's choice of Egypt as a place to convene some of these conversations, and Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff long standing relationship with many of these other Gulf leaders, that conversation really begin.
I think we're looking at two stories, though, here, Sara. One is the global story. What happens to the Palestinians? What happens to Israel's role internationally? What happens to the Trump administration's policies with Gulf nations and with the Middle East? The second story inside the U.S. is how does this transforming public opinion about Israel and this new openness toward American sympathy and empathy with the Palestinian people potentially fundamentally change American politics?
And will President Trump benefit politically inside the United States? Will the Republican Party benefit politically inside the United States ahead of these midterms, or will Americans focus truly after, and this is a big moment, what he and his team have been able to accomplish with leverage, timing and personal relationships? It is a big deal, however lasting it may be, but will it be enough to offset Americans concerns about the economy and pocketbook issues and domestic issues at home?
SIDNER: Right. I mean, we're in the middle of a shutdown, and that certainly having -- taking its toll as well as the healthcare issue. So there is a lot domestically that Americans are focused on, namely, as you mentioned, the economy.
We will see how this all plays out, but it is always my pleasure to be able to speak with you, Margaret, and with you, Aaron. Thank you both so much for your expertise on this.
MILLER: Thank you.
TALEV: Thank you, Sara.
SIDNER: All right. Still to come, military families across the country may get a reprieve during the government shutdown.
[16:40:02]
The latest message from President Trump that could lead to military members receiving their next paycheck.
You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. More on that and many more stories ahead.
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SIDNER: The government shutdown now stretching into day 11, and there is no end in sight at the moment. One group of federal workers who were expecting to miss their next paycheck are members of the military.
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But tonight, President Trump says he's not going to let that happen. Trump announcing he will direct Secretary Hegseth to use the funds to pay our troops. Not sure how all this will go down, but this comes a day after the Trump administration says it's begun firing more federal workers. CNN's Julia Benbrook joins us now with the very latest.
Julia, what do we know about these layoffs? Obviously different from furloughs, these are permanent firings of federal workers that Donald Trump had promised in a way, in some way, to punish Democrats. What are you learning?
JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It has been a long stated goal of President Donald Trump's to shrink the size of the federal workforce, and he has made it no secret that he sees this ongoing government shutdown as a, quote, "opportunity to do just that."
The official announcement of the RIFs, the reduction in force notices, came in a brief social media post from Trump's budget chief, Russ Vought, who simply said the RIFs have begun. Just hours after that post, Trump was taking questions from reporters in the Oval Office, and he was pressed on who exactly would be impacted and what agencies would feel the immediate hit. He did not dive into many specifics there, but he did make it clear that there is a target here, and that includes those who do not align with his agenda. Take a listen.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It will be Democrat oriented because we figure, you know, they started this thing, so they should be Democrat oriented. It will be a lot. And we'll announce the numbers over the next couple of days. But it will be a lot of people, all because of the Democrats. These are people that the Democrats wanted, that in many cases were not appropriate.
We fought them at the time and it was ultimately signed in. And some of these people, these are largely people that the Democrats want. Many of them will be fired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BENBROOK: Now, the numbers that we have right now come from a court filing in a lawsuit brought by unions representing federal employees that want to see the layoffs go away. They don't want to see this happen, and it reveals that more than 4,000 federal workers across seven different agencies have received layoff notices. When it comes to the departments most impacted, the Department of Treasury, as well as the Department of Health and Human Services had over 1,000 workers on that list.
We also know from the filing that some other agencies are actively looking for other places where cuts can be made. And Sara, as you pointed out earlier, it is typical to see government workers furloughed during a government shutdown. But these mass layoffs are a break from precedent.
SIDNER: We should mention that the government workers are not partisan, so it is interesting to see how they are picking and choosing who gets laid off and who doesn't.
Julia Benbrook, thank you for your reporting there for us. We really appreciate it.
Coming up, desperately needed aid is just starting to arrive in Gaza as the ceasefire deal is taking hold. What needs to happen in the next 42 hours to help bring food and medical aid to more than two million Palestinians.
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SIDNER: Today, Israel says aid is now beginning to flow into Gaza. Israel says it will allow 600 humanitarian aid trucks in daily. It still may not be enough, but everything is desperately needed. You will remember that during this crisis during the war, we have seen the awful images of starvation. The World Health Organization declaring a famine for the first time in Gaza. UNICEF says as many as 50,000 children in Gaza are suffering acute malnutrition and need to be treated immediately.
We are joined now by Steve Sosebee, the leader of HEAL Palestine, which has helped evacuate dozens of wounded children out of Gaza.
Steve, first to you, I mean just your reaction on this ceasefire deal and upon learning that now aid will finally flow in a way that it hasn't for so very long.
STEVE SOSEBEE, CO-FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR HEAL PALESTINE: Well, I think, like everybody, we're optimistic, but also very cautious, but very happy about it. I mean, what's been happening there for the past two years has been just an unrelentless amount of violence, suffering and hardship as you outlined, 50,000 children are acutely malnourished. And that's just one statistic of money that now we can start rebuilding the lives and getting aid into people in need there.
So we're happy that this ceasefire, we're overjoyed and our staff on the ground there are quite happy themselves to be able to for the first time try to rebuild their lives and start rebuilding their lives. Of course, this is just the beginning and no one knows what's coming next. But we do hope that this is the start of an end to this -- to this horrific violence and this horrific situation on the ground in Gaza.
SIDNER: Like so many aid organizations, your organization was forced to close its kitchens in Gaza earlier this year because there simply wasn't anything to cook with, to make. Are there any plans to reopen these kitchens if you're able to get the supplies that you need there in Gaza?
SOSEBEE: Yes, of course. Actually, we've had our kitchen open over the past month. We also opened a bakery just because we've established partnerships with the World Central Kitchen and other food sources that have been able to get us the food that our team on the ground there can produce and distribute to people in need.
[16:55:09] It's far short of what's needed, of course. But we have been able to feed people, but we are hoping to increase our capacity significantly now that aid is starting to flow in. That's our number one objective, in addition to providing health services to people in need.
SIDNER: In August, your group evacuated about 11 children from Gaza. Can you tell me what their conditions were as they were being evacuated? Obviously, they had been terribly injured, from munitions there, from the bombings there. But also what their condition was as far as malnutrition.
SOSEBEE: Yes. I mean, all the kids who came out suffer from a variety of different complicated medical conditions, which couldn't be treated inside of Gaza. That's the reason we were bringing them out. They were kids with amputations, multiple amputations, kids who suffered significant burns from bombings and even kids with birth defects that needed medical care that wasn't available because the health system has been destroyed in Gaza.
And as a result, you know, this program is -- was established with the intention of getting these kids the care they need in American hospitals for free and then sending them back when their treatment is completed. And that's what we've been doing since the treatment was established. Unfortunately, now that that program has been halted, there's literally tens of thousands of injured and sick kids in Gaza who need medical care that's not available to them inside.
We hope that now there will be a flow of medication, of more medical teams going in and a rebuilding of the health system, which has been destroyed in Gaza, which will enable a lot of these kids to get treatment locally. But unfortunately, that's going to take a long time. And right now there's literally thousands and thousands of kids in Gaza who are desperately waiting for opportunities to travel outside for medical care.
SIDNER: Yes, and not just children, but, you know, adults also who have been badly injured. I am curious because Palestinians were not afforded visas. That was stopped even from organizations like yours. Do you have any sense as to whether, even if medical aid gets in, even as these 600 trucks a day are coming in, bringing food, and some of that will be medical equipment if it's anywhere near enough to try and treat the number of people there, if you have any hope that perhaps some of those visas can now be allowed to take people out who really are not going to be able to get the care they need with the hospital infrastructure the way it is in Gaza.
SOSEBEE: That's a great question, and your first point is that whatever amount of aid that comes in to support the medical system, it's not going to be enough to provide medical care. The hospitals have been significantly damaged. We just saw yesterday Rantisi pediatric hospital in Gaza, where we had built a -- I had led a process of building a pediatric oncology department there, which was destroyed, but kids with cancer were getting treatment, good treatment in that center.
It doesn't work anymore. It's not -- it's been destroyed. It was bombed. So where are those kids with cancer going to get treatment inside of Gaza? It takes years to build that kind of service and that infrastructure. So to be honest with you, there's no opportunity in the short term that medical care is going to be significantly improved to be able to provide care locally for these kids. And we do hope that this administration will review the whole vetting process, which is the intention that they said when they stopped the program to review the whole process of vetting these patients and the people that were coming out, and making sure that there was no security threat to the United States.
We hope that that's been done. We're confident that it's been done. And we're confident that the vetting that's taking place does not in any way put the American security, our security here in this country at risk, and that we can resume bringing these kids over. American hospitals want to treat them. They're treating them for free. The communities all over the country want to welcome them. They want to take care of them. It's a grassroots initiative, and they're not here to stay. They're here to get medical care and go back.
So we hope that this will be the start of a reexamination and resuming -- allowing us to resume bringing these kids over because right now we're looking to other countries, we're looking to Mexico, we're looking to Portugal, we're looking to Spain to send injured kids for treatment. We should be bringing them to the United States. That's our values. That's the kind of country we should be.
SIDNER: Steve Sosebee, thank you so much.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SIDNER: In phase one of the latest ceasefire deal. Tens of thousands of Palestinians now have started returning home in Gaza. And if you look at these pictures, you can see what they are returning home to. They are -- they're heading to ruin.
And at the moment, humanitarian aid, though, is beginning to arrive again in significant numbers. But questions remain about what happens next in phase two of the deal. Joining me now, Axios Senior Contributor Margaret Talev and Former Middle East Negotiator for the State Department Aaron David Miller. We have a great panel for you.
Aaron, I want to start with you. This phase one involves Hamas agreeing to release all of the hostages. And I guess the big question is, how delicate is this right now? Because while people are celebrating in Hostage Square in Tel Aviv, there is always the chance that it doesn't happen the way everyone thinks it's going to happen. What are your concerns?
AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: You know, hard to predict. And thanks for having me. Great to be with Margaret. You know, the previous two ceasefires in November of 2023 and January 2025, there were, in fact, bumps in the road.
I suspect it's always possible that there may be delays, particularly over the list of Palestinians that Hamas wants released. But I suspect that within the next two days, you're going to see -- you've already seen the part of implementation. The Israelis have withdrawn to a yellow line, not out of Gaza.
They still control 53 percent of it. And as you mentioned, the U.N. is already starting in a calmer environment to deliver essential humanitarian assistance. So, I'm fairly confident.
I usually default to the negative when it comes to Israeli, Palestinian, anything for 20 years, mostly failing at these negotiations. So, I think there's a reasonable chance that you will, in fact, see phase one implementation.
SIDNER: Margaret, I am just curious from you because we know that in this case that Hamas may not know where some of the deceased, in particular, are. What are your thoughts on if all families who are waiting -- all 48 families will actually get to see their loved ones, the 20 who are alive, and the rest who have been killed?
MARGARET TALEV, INSTITUTE FOR DEMOCRACY, JOURNALISM & CITIZENSHIP, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: Yes, Sara, this has been one of the biggest questions of phase one. And, of course, when we talk about this ceasefire at the beginnings of a peace deal, this phase one, we are focused on the release of the hostages. There are hostages who are still alive, and those who were taken hostage, who are not.
And then, of course, after next week, after the initial round of what is happening and then the political reaction to it at home and abroad, we're going to begin to see some of the difficulties of even phase two. How long can this continue and what will Hamas's role in Gaza be? But I think at this moment, for Americans watching this, you are looking at an issue that has hugely divided the Democratic Party, that has changed Americans' political opinion about Israel, that since, you know, for the last, more than half century, Americans have been closely allied with the Israeli people.
And we've begun to see in recent weeks, public opinion flip. People are more sympathetic now toward Palestinian civilians than toward Israeli civilians. That is a big change in American politics. And I think while that's been a political challenge for Democrats, it also added to the pressure on President Trump to try to find the leverage here, because you'd begun to see some concern inside, even the MAGA base and the Republican base about the U.S. relationship with Israel and about the Netanyahu government.
SIDNER: Yes. I mean, we've looked at some of the polling that Harry Enten has brought to us that shows it is the younger people who are starting to really shift the mindset about whether they support Israel or the Palestinian people. And there is a real shift there. Aaron, I do want to ask you this.
Phase two. This seems to be, when you consider what is at stake, the most difficult part of this, which is how do you rebuild? I think it's something like 70 percent of buildings have been destroyed in Gaza. Who is the security force?
Who is going to run Gaza? These are huge issues. Where do you start, and what do you think the big stumbling blocks will be?
MILLER: Well, there's -- I mean, every point in this plan contains a universe of detail and complexity that are going to need to be negotiated out. Let's be clear about something. I mean, very clear. The reason two ceasefires never got beyond phase one is because there's a fundamental impasse in the way both Hamas and the Netanyahu government perceived their respective objectives.
[16:35:10]
The Netanyahu government understandably wants Hamas not only eradicated as a military organization, but they wanted extinguished as a political entity. And Hamas wants to survive politically, to extend its influence in the Westbank and to ultimately take over the Palestinian national movement. That has been the fundamental impasse all along.
So, before we get to reconstruction, we have to consider the two of the core issues in this plan. Number one is decommissioning -- demilitarizing Hamas's weapons and the tunnel infrastructure. Even if the Israelis managed over the last two years to destroy 30 to 40 percent of that tunnel infrastructure, it is still almost half the length of the New York subway system.
And then you have the issue of the international stabilization force. What Arab or Muslim countries are going to deploy their forces if Hamas still has its weapons and the Israelis are deployed into Gaza? They're not going to kill Palestinians, and they're not going to hold Israel's coat while the Israelis kill Palestinians.
So, these are the issues. And I conclude by saying this, Sara, phase one of this plan is really quite extraordinary because it removes the hostage issue completely. And once that is removed, Israel's justification and capacity to wage the kind of war that they've waged over the last two years is going to diminish. And once that diminishes, the amount of humanitarian assistance can actually surge in.
So, my point is, when Gaza loses its urgency, as it may, it may well be that the President of the United States, and that's the reason we're even having this conversation. No American president I ever worked for, Republican or Democrat, has been able to deploy the kind of pressure or talk to an Israeli prime minister the way Trump has. Trump could easily lose interest. He's added this to the eighth conflict that he has resolved. Of course, resolving none of them. So that's the real paradox.
SIDNER: Yes.
MILLER: It could get better, and interest will be lost.
SIDNER: And of course, you've got the ever-ongoing war in Ukraine. And he was talking to the president of Ukraine, as well. And that -- and that is brewing and can certainly take his attention away. Margaret, I do want to lastly ask you. When the U.N. gathered for the U.N. General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership from the Palestinian Authority wasn't even given visas to be able to come into the country and state their case.
And so, I guess to you, as someone who's been involved in negotiations, what do you do here? You've got Qatar, which has put a lot of money into Gaza in the past to help rebuild. You've got Egypt as a neighbor. You've got Turkey.
All of them playing roles in this. Who -- when you look at the region, I mean, who steps forward and -- that you see that may be able to help push forward phase two?
TALEV: Yes. I think we're going to begin to see with President Trump's choice of -- Egypt as a place to convene some of these conversations. And Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff's long-standing relationship with many of these other Gulf leaders, that conversation really begin. I think we're looking at two stories, though, here, Sara.
One is the global story. What happens to the Palestinians? What happens to Israel's role internationally? What happens to the Trump administration's policies with Gulf Nations and with the Middle East?
The second story inside the U.S. is how does this transforming public opinion about Israel. And this new openness toward American sympathy and empathy with the Palestinian people potentially fundamentally change American politics. And will President Trump benefit politically inside the United States?
Will the Republican Party benefit politically inside the United States ahead of these midterms, or will Americans focus truly after -- and this is a big moment what his -- he and his team have been able to accomplish with leverage, timing, and personal relationships. It is a big deal, however lasting it may be. But will it be enough to offset Americans' concerns about economy and pocketbook issues and domestic issues at home?
SIDNER: Right. I mean, we're in the middle of a shutdown, and that certainly having -- taking its toll as well as the health care issue. So, there is a lot domestically that Americans are focused on, namely, as you mentioned, the economy. We will see how this all plays out.
But it is always my pleasure to be able to speak with you, Margaret, and with you, Aaron. Thank you both so much for your expertise on this.
MILLER: Thank you.
TALEV: Thank you, Sara.
SIDNER: All right, still to come. Military families across the country may get a reprieve during the government shutdown. The latest message from President Trump that could lead to military members receiving their next paycheck. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. More on that and many more stories ahead. [16:40:16]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SIDNER: The government shutdown now stretching into day 11, and there is no end in sight at the moment. One group of federal workers who were expecting to miss their next paycheck are members of the military. But tonight, President Trump says he's not going to let that happen.
[16:45:08]
Trump announcing he will direct Secretary Hegseth to use the funds to pay our troops. Not sure how all this will go down. But this comes a day after the Trump administration says it's begun firing more federal workers.
CNN's Julia Benbrook joins us now with the very latest. Julia, what do we know about these layoffs? Obviously, different from furloughs, these are permanent firings of federal workers that Donald Trump had promised in a way -- in some way, to punish Democrats. What are you learning?
JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It has been a long-stated goal of President Donald Trump's to shrink the size of the federal workforce. And he has made it no secret that he sees this ongoing government shutdown as an "Opportunity to do just that." The official announcement of the RIFS, the reduction-in-force notices, came in a brief social media post from Trump's budget chief, Russ Vought, who simply said the RIFS have begun.
Just hours after that post, Trump was taking questions from reporters in the Oval Office. And he was pressed on who exactly would be impacted and what agencies would feel the immediate hit. He did not dive into many specifics there, but he did make it clear that there is a target here, and that includes those who do not align with his agenda. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It will be Democrat- oriented because we figure, you know, they started this thing. So, they should be Democrat oriented. It will be a lot. And we'll announce the numbers over the next couple of days.
But it will be a lot of people. All because of the Democrats. These are people that the Democrats wanted, that in many cases, were not appropriate.
We fought them at the time. And it was ultimately signed in. And some of these people -- these are largely people that the Democrats want. Many of them will be fired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BENBROOK: Now, the numbers that we have right now come from a court filing in a lawsuit brought by unions representing federal employees that want to see the layoffs go away. They don't want to see this happen. And it reveals that more than 4000 federal workers across seven different agencies have received layoff notices.
When it comes to the departments most impacted. The Department of Treasury, as well as the Department of Health and Human Services had over a thousand workers on that list. We also know from the filing that some other agencies are actively looking for other places where cuts can be made.
And Sara, as you pointed out earlier, it is typical to see government workers furloughed during a government shutdown. But these mass layoffs are a break from precedent.
SIDNER: We should mention that the government workers are not partisan. So, it is interesting to see how they are picking and choosing who gets laid off and who doesn't. Julia Benbrook, thank you for your reporting there for us. We really appreciate it.
Coming up. Desperately needed aid is just starting to arrive in Gaza as the ceasefire deal is taking hold. What needs to happen in the next 42 hours to help bring food and medical aid to more than two million Palestinians?
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[16:52:53]
SIDNER: Today, Israel says aid is now beginning to flow into Gaza. Israel says it will allow 600 humanitarian aid trucks in daily. It still may not be enough, but everything is desperately needed. You will remember that during this crisis, during the war, we have seen the awful images of starvation. The World Health Organization declaring a famine for the first time in Gaza. UNICEF says, as many as 50,000 children in Gaza are suffering acute malnutrition and need to be treated immediately.
We are joined now by Steve Sosebee, the leader of HEAL Palestine, which has helped evacuate dozens of wounded children out of Gaza. Steve, first to you. I mean, just your reaction on this ceasefire deal and upon learning that now aid will finally flow in a way that it hasn't for so very long.
STEVE SOSEBEE, CO-FOUNDER & EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HEAL PALESTINE: Well, I think, like everybody, we're optimistic, but also very cautious. But very happy about it. I mean, what's been happening there for the past two years has been just an unrelentless amount of violence, suffering, and hardship. As you outlined, 50,000 children are acutely malnourished. And that's just one statistic of money that now we can start rebuilding the lives and getting aid into people in need there.
So, we're happy that this ceasefire. We're overjoyed. And our staff on the ground, they are quite happy themselves to be able to, for the first time, try to rebuild their lives and start rebuilding their lives. Of course, this is just the beginning and no one knows what's coming next. But we do hope that this is the start of an end to this -- to this horrific violence and this horrific situation on the ground in Gaza.
SIDNER: Like so many aid organizations, your organization was forced to close its kitchens in Gaza earlier this year because they're simply wasn't anything to cook with -- to make. Are there any plans to reopen these kitchens if you're able to get the supplies that you need there in Gaza?
SOSEBEE: Yes, of course. Actually, we've had our kitchen open over the past month. We also opened a bakery just because we've established partnerships with the World Central Kitchen and other food sources that have been able to get us the food that our team on the ground there can produce and distribute to people in need.
[16:55:09]
It's far short of what's needed, of course. But we have been able to feed people. But we are hoping to increase our capacity significantly now that aid is starting to flow in. Thats our number one objective, in addition to providing health services to people in need.
SIDNER: In August, your group evacuated about 11 children from Gaza. Can you tell me what their conditions were as they were being evacuated? Obviously, they had been terribly injured from munitions there, from the bombings there. But also, what their condition was as far as malnutrition?
SOSEBEE: Yes. I mean, all the kids who came out suffer from a variety of different complicated medical conditions, which couldn't be treated inside of Gaza. That's the reason we were bringing them out. There were kids with amputations -- multiple amputations, kids who suffered significant burns from bombings, and even kids with birth defects that needed medical care that wasn't available because the health system has been destroyed in Gaza.
And as a result, you know, this program is -- was established with the intention of getting these kids the care they need in American hospitals for free and then sending them back when their treatment is completed. And that's what we've been doing since the treatment was established. Unfortunately, now that that program has been halted, there's literally tens of thousands of injured and sick kids in Gaza who need medical care that's not available to them inside.
We hope that now there will be a flow of medication of more medical teams going in and a rebuilding of the health system, which has been destroyed in Gaza, which will enable a lot of these kids to get treatment locally. But unfortunately, that's going to take a long time. And right now, there's literally thousands and thousands of kids in Gaza who are desperately waiting for opportunities to travel outside for medical care.
SIDNER: Yes. Not just children, but you know, adults also, who have been badly injured.
SOSEBEE: Yes.
SIDNER: I am curious, because Palestinians were not afforded visas. That was stopped even from organizations like yours.
SOSEBEE: Yes.
SIDNER: Do you have any sense as to whether, even if medical aid gets in, even as these 600 trucks a day are coming in, bringing food, and some of that will be medical equipment, if it's anywhere near enough to try and treat the number of people there? And if you have any hope that perhaps some of those visas can now be allowed to take people out who really are not going to be able to get the care they need, with the hospital infrastructure the way it is in Gaza.
SOSEBEE: That's a great question. And your first point is that whatever amount of aid that comes in to support the medical system, it's not going to be enough to provide medical care. The hospitals have been significantly damaged.
We just saw yesterday Al-Rantisi pediatric hospital in Gaza, where we had built a pediatric -- I had led a process of building a pediatric oncology department there, which was destroyed. But kids with cancer were getting treatment -- good treatment in that center. It doesn't work anymore. It's not --it's been destroyed. It was bombed.
So, where are those kids with cancer going to get treatment inside of Gaza? It takes years to build that kind of service and that infrastructure. So, to be honest with you, there's no opportunity in the short term that medical care is going to be significantly improved to be able to provide care locally for these kids.
And we do hope that this administration will review the whole vetting process, which is the intention that they said when they stopped the program, to review the whole process of vetting these patients and the people that were coming out and making sure that there was no security threat to the United States. We hope that that's been done. We're confident that it's been done. And we're confident that the vetting that's taking place does not, in any way, put the American security.
Our security here in this country at risk. And that we can resume bringing these kids over. American hospitals want to treat them. They're treating them for free.
The communities all over the country want to welcome them. They want to take care of them. It's a grassroots initiative. And they're not here to stay. They're here to get medical care and go back.
So, we hope that this will be the start of a reexamination and resuming -- allowing us to resume bringing these kids over. Because right now, we're looking to other countries.
SIDNER: Right.
SOSEBEE: We're looking to Mexico. We're looking to Portugal. We're looking to Spain to send injured kids for treatment. We should be bringing them to the United States. That's our values. That's the kind of country we should be.
SIDNER: Steve Sosebee, thank you so much. We will be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
