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Hostage Release Expected to Start Monday Morning; Hundreds of Aid Trucks Moving Toward Gaza; Witkoff and Kushner Toured Gaza; Next Stages of Gaza Ceasefire; Trump and Sisi to Co-Chair Gaza Summit; Zelenskyy Sees Hope for Ukraine After Gaza Ceasefire; Diane Keaton Dies at 79'. Aired 4-5a ET

Aired October 12, 2025 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: And hello and welcome to all of our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Becky Anderson for you in Sham el-Sheikh in Egypt where the time is 11:00 in the morning on Sunday.

Here is where the ceasefire plan was agreed late last week and where U.S. President Donald Trump and other world leaders will meet on Monday. Just moments from where we are now to formalize the first phase of the Gaza ceasefire agreement. By then we expect that the Israeli hostages who have been held in Gaza for more than two years will be back home.

Israel's hostage coordinator has told families that the process of releasing those remaining hostages is expected to start Monday morning. So, pretty much 24 hours or so from now.

On Saturday thousands of people rallied at Tel Aviv's hostage square in anticipation of their return. It was a celebratory atmosphere with attendees waving banners, playing music and chanting slogans. Families expressed hope but they also said they won't be completely satisfied until all 48 hostages are returned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EINAV ZANGAUKER, MOTHER OF HOSTAGE MATAN ZANGAUKER (through translator): This is the 736th day that our loved ones are held in Hamas captivity. But soon, they will come back to us. My excitement is so great there are no words to describe it. And together with me, together with us, the whole people of Israel who want the hostages home and expect to see them all return.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, among those who spoke at the rally was U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff who of course helped broker this deal. Many in the crowd showed their gratitude towards the United States but not towards the leader of their own country. Here's what happened when Steve Witkoff mentioned both U.S. President Donald Trump and the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY: President of the United States Donald J. Trump that made this peace possible. To Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, about 400 aid trucks are expected to enter southern Gaza in the day ahead, that is according to Egyptian media who showed many trucks on Egypt's side of the border moving towards the enclave. Across the territory thousands of Palestinians displaced during the war have been streaming back home, but they are finding nothing but ruin.

Since the ceasefire began Gaza hospitals have reported 280 people dead most of whom were retrieved from the rubble. Here's how one woman described the devastation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SALWA SHARAB, DISPLACED PALESTINIAN (through translator): Total destruction. No home left. Three or four houses piled on top of each other, and we don't know where our house is. We don't know. All our neighbors' homes are on top of ours and ours on our neighbors. My house is underneath. It is not visible at all, our home. We don't know where the house is. It is sand. Just rubble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, Steve Witkoff and Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner were also in Gaza on Saturday. They were visiting a hostage center that will receive those released from captivity amongst other things.

Let's get more from our teams now in the field. CNN's Nada Bashir is in Jerusalem this morning and Oren Liebermann joining us from Tel Aviv. And, Oren, first to you. What can we expect in the next 24 hours?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: We have a good sense at this point Becky of how this process will play out a process of Hamas handing the remaining hostages to the Red Cross, the Red Cross then handing those hostages to the Israeli military within Gaza. The military will transport them by convoy outside of Gaza. It is the first time these hostages will have been in Israel in just over two years.

They'll go through an initial medical screening at an Israeli military facility in Re'im just outside of the Gaza Strip. That's where the first time they'll see their loved ones, their closest family members as they go through that initial medical screening, and then they'll be taken to several hospitals across Israel mostly in and around the Tel Aviv area. Some of the largest and most capable hospitals in the country that have been preparing for their arrival.

[04:05:00]

The only part of this we don't know is the timing of all of this. As you pointed out we're down to now the last 25 hours until the deadline, until the first 72-hour timeline for Hamas to release the hostages expires. And we expect that they will be released sometime Monday morning, that is what Gal Hirsch Israel's hostage coordinator told the hostage families in a text message obtained by CNN that it will happen sometime potentially very early tomorrow morning. So, we'll certainly be across that.

And that means that this is a country and these are people effectively breathless with anticipation waiting for this to happen, and we saw so much of that playing out in Hostages Square last night. Hostages Square has been a place of mourning, of anger, of desperation, and it's been the center of some two years of protests, calling for the release of the hostages and an end to the war. Many of those frustrations and that anger we have seen pointed directly at Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, but for the first time really in so long, we have seen it become a rally of joy, an end of anticipation nearing the release of the hostages and an end to the war.

We saw that joy and that thankfulness directed largely at President Donald Trump. His daughter, Ivanka Trump, spoke -- was one of several speakers at the rally last night. Here's just part of what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVANKA TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S DAUGHTER: The president wanted me to share, as he has with so many of you personally, that he sees you, he hears you, he stands with you, always, always.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: And it's not a surprise that there was such a loud applause every time the name Trump was mentioned. They see him as a critical step here and perhaps the only person in the world that could have put pressure on Netanyahu to end the war and to sign a ceasefire agreement, and that's the same reason that when Netanyahu was mentioned, you heard a crowd of organizers, estimate some 400,000, booing when U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff tried to mention Netanyahu.

It is Trump to which their thankfulness and their adoration is directed, and we saw that in effigies of Trump, in signs directed at him, in signs saying he should have won the Nobel Peace Prize just a couple of days ago. So, that was effectively the electric atmosphere last night, as we saw a country supporting the families of the hostages and relieved that, from what they see here, this war, this ceasefire is in place and we're waiting for the release of the hostages.

ANDERSON: Nada, you're reporting on the process for the release of Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails. Briefly, what do we know at this point?

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Becky, we have a sense of how this is going to play out, given the fact that we have seen this process take place in the previous two short-lived ceasefire deals. It's understood that once Hamas releases the Israeli hostages held captive in Gaza, once they are safely returned to Israeli territory, that is then when we can expect to see Israeli authorities releasing the Palestinian prisoners and detainees who have been outlined as ready for release as part of the ceasefire agreement.

Now, we've had a list that has been put out by the Israeli Justice Ministry. The Israeli Prison Service has said that it has now already transported some 250 Palestinian prisoners and detainees to prisons in southern Israel and the Ofer detention center in the occupied West Bank. That is certainly what we saw in the previous two instances of these ceasefire agreements, where essentially these prisoners and detainees would be held temporarily in these detention centers, awaiting that eventual release once the release of the Israeli hostages had been confirmed.

Now, as we understand it, some 250 Palestinian prisoners have been highlighted for release. Among them, 142 are expected to be deported. It's unclear at this stage exactly where it's understood potentially that it would be, to Egypt via Gaza. We're also expecting to see some 1,700 detainees from Gaza who were detained and imprisoned during the war in Gaza, but they are also set to be returned as part of this process.

But it's important to highlight that this is a somewhat different process than what we had seen in the previous two instances, where among the prisoners and detainees were many who were being held under administrative detention, meaning nuclear charges had been laid against them, and many were also women and children. This time, we are expecting to see a significant majority of these 250 Palestinian prisoners to be those serving long-term sentences held for serious offenses.

[04:10:00]

And for many in Israel, this is being seen as a significant price to pay for the release of Israeli hostages. In their view, for many, these are Palestinian prisoners who have, in their eyes, blood on their hands, who are responsible for the killing of Israeli civilians.

On the contrary, in the occupied West Bank and in East Jerusalem, where many family members and many others are awaiting this release process, these prisoners and detainees are seen as political prisoners, in some cases resistance fighters in their eyes.

So, it is expected, as we have seen in previous instances, that the release of these prisoners will be met with a lot of celebration in the occupied West Bank. We have certainly seen that in the past, huge crowds gathering to welcome the release of these prisoners. And of course, that is something that is difficult for many in Israel to understand and also to accept. But of course, this is coming in response to the ceasefire agreement.

And as we've seen in the past, there have been higher numbers in previous instances. In this case, we are seeing, as I mentioned, serious offenders. Among them are significant members of Palestinian political factions as well. And of course, what we're expecting to see tomorrow, once again, is that huge show of celebration for Palestinians.

ANDERSON: Yes. Nada, thank you. Oren, just briefly, this ceasefire then is holding. What are the risks?

LIEBERMANN: The risks are that only the first phase of the ceasefire has any real details. That's the only time or part of the deal that has a timeline, the 72 hours, the release of hostages, the release of prisoners and detainees. Phase two and everything beyond that, the so- called day after the war, has very few details. It's nothing but a broad, vague outline for which both parties are supposed to follow with an international security force, Arab states stepping in with their own forces inside of Gaza, all of that is missing the fine details to turn that into reality. As one veteran Israeli journalist wrote on Friday, this agreement has more holes than Swiss cheese.

It is largely pushed forward by Trump and by Qatar, Egypt, and Turkey, as well as other regional states, and as much pressure as the International Community can bring to bear. That doesn't mean it's finalized, and that doesn't mean it's sealed and set, and that we can stand here today and say, this war is definitely over. To make that happen, there are still details that need to be worked out. And as we stand here waiting for these releases to take place, that is an enormous risk, and one that the whole world, frankly, is watching.

ANDERSON: Yes. It's good to have you, Oren. Thank you. And, Nada, I appreciate it. Thank you both. Hasan Alhasan is senior fellow for Middle East policy at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, and he joins me now from Manama in Bahrain.

We speak while I'm here in Sharm el-Sheikh for Donald Trump summit with world leaders on Monday to push to maintain momentum for what comes next. You'll have just heard Oren laying out that it is that what comes next, which is where we see the real risks and the real absence of detail at this point. How do regional leaders, when they arrive here, make that momentum happen, ensure that that momentum is maintained? And what should we expect to be the concrete offers of support, and from whom?

HASAN ALHASAN, SENIOR FELLOW FOR MIDDLE EAST POLICY, IISS AND INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES: Going to be, I think, a very daunting task for regional leaders, really, to try and shape the next phase of what happens in Gaza. And because I think they do realize, they do recognize, obviously, that this is a highly imperfect plan, to put it politely, that the Trump administration has put forward, but at the very least, pragmatically speaking, it helps put a stop to the bloodshed. It helps facilitate the exchange of prisoners. And there are obviously bitter pills to swallow for all of the main conflict parties. But at the very least, it puts an end to this massacre that was taking place until very recently in Gaza.

So, I think regional leaders have to be and are acting pragmatically as far as this plan is concerned. They recognize its flaws. They recognize the ambiguities, and they recognize the risks. I think those risks, from the Arab perspective, very clearly, are that, on the one hand, Benjamin Netanyahu might have an incentive to spoil the agreement, to try and find an excuse to resume fighting, especially once Israel gets hold of its hostages. And on the other hand, I think the Arab leaders are also leery of the fact that they might be cornered into upholding some of the commitments that they might have made about dispatching a security force to Gaza without having secured the full cooperation of Hamas when it comes to what future role it plays in Gaza.

I think we've already seen indications that it's highly unrealistic to expect Hamas simply to disappear and vanish into thin air. Hamas, there are some reports, might already be asserting control over certain areas, especially from a policing and internal security perspective.

[04:15:00]

There are a number of tribes and clans and groups, some of which have been armed by Israel, that I think are behaving in somewhat of a thuggish manner. And I think there are internal tensions within Gaza that Hamas might also wish to address and sort of reassert its control.

ANDERSON: Right.

ALHASAN: So, the question is here, you know, how do the Arab leaders deal with the fact that Hamas essentially contributes security, but in a way that does not put them in direct confrontation with Hamas? I think these are some of the big questions that will have to be answered.

ANDERSON: And doesn't make it look as if they're riding in on the back of Israeli tanks, which is what I heard as a line, you know, in the first week after October the 7, 2023, when there was a hope that this wouldn't last long. And there were discussions about the day after at that point. And there was, you know, a real understanding that no Arab country would want to be seen riding in on the back of Israeli tanks. That was the way it was described to me.

Look, one senior diplomat described what is going on at present behind the scenes with Arab and other world leaders as trying to fly this plane while we are building it. You're right to point out that there are already issues of security reported on the ground in Gaza. Locals telling CNN Hamas is showing force across the enclave. To your last point, point 15 of Donald Trump's sort of pathway plan, as it were, calls for an international stabilization force trained by Jordan and Egypt.

The big question is, you know, who else will show support? And surely, and again, I'm hearing this behind the scenes, any boots on the ground will need to be legitimized. Any international presence on the ground will need legitimization. And many people suggesting that needs to come from the U.N., from a Security Council resolution. And as I can -- as far as I can tell, there is no plan for that as of yet. There's no scheduled time for a meeting like that. What are your thoughts? ALHASAN: Yes, I agree. I think this was the explicit position, actually, of the Arab League when it convened last year in Bahrain. And where this idea of an Arab contribution to an international force in Gaza, I think, first came up in a serious way. And where there was explicit reference to a U.N. Security Council mandate. And that's the talking point we've also heard regional officials repeat over the past one year or so.

I think the mood was rather clearly conveyed by the GCC Secretary General, Jasem AlBudaiwi, who commented in the sort of immediate aftermath of the Trump plan being floated and widely reported to have been accepted, that really there is no trust in Benjamin Netanyahu as a partner of peace. And that this idea of a Gulf contribution to an international force in Gaza still, I think, remains unrealistic in the short-term. Because I think, as you say it, regional leaders will be very, I think, guarded against the possibility of being -- of appearing as essentially doing Israel's dirty work in Gaza or even, really, the prospect of shooting at Palestinians if Hamas chooses not to comply and not to cooperate.

I think, really, what this boils down to in reality is who gets to shape President Trump's views and perception of this issue. And I think what the Arab leaders should, and I expect would be trying to do, is really, I think, to try to steer President Trump in a more realistic direction. That recognizes that Hamas is still, I think, the dominant force on the ground in Gaza. That it's not going to disappear and vanish into thin air. It will not lay down its arms. And it will probably not accept, neither will the majority of Palestinians, to be under the foreign tutelage of a Gaza Peace Board that is appointed by Donald Trump. And I expect all of these things to be quite far- fetched.

The question of what happens to Israel's presence in Gaza and how far back Israel withdraws, I think these are extremely risky issues that could really provide, I think, Netanyahu, that's the main risk, with an excuse to recommence the fighting.

So, I think the Arab leaders in Sharm el-Sheikh will have to manage Trump and steer him in a more -- in a direction that I think is more closely aligned with the realities on the ground in Gaza.

[04:20:00]

ANDERSON: What they are all aligned on is that they want to see beyond this conflict. I mean, anybody you speak to around this region and in the Gulf will tell you that the through-line to, you know, future peace, stability, economic integration around this region is solving the Gaza crisis, the Gaza conflict. Only after that is there an opportunity to sort of navigate a new Middle East, which is a term I hear a lot around the Gulf and really see beyond what is going on now. This next stage, maintaining momentum is absolutely crucial at this point, I'm told.

Hassan Alhasan, it's good to have you. Always a pleasure, sir. Your perspective from where you are is really valuable to us. Hassan Alhasan is in Bahrain. Still ahead, Egypt prepares to host Donald Trump and leaders from around the world here in Sharm el-Sheikh. A look at the details of what we can expect from that summit after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: President Trump is set to arrive in Israel tomorrow morning. He will address the Israeli Parliament before heading here to Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt for a summit with world leaders from more than 20 countries, according to the Egyptian presidential office. Remember, this is where the first phase of a ceasefire plan was agreed to before it was announced.

[04:25:00]

Well, I'm joined now here in Sharm el-Sheikh by Nic Robertson. And you and I were just discussing before we started that the stakes could not be higher. And I know that's a hackneyed phrase, but it is so appropriate here in Sharm el-Sheikh.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It really is. Any troop, any nation that's considering contributing troops to this stabilization force, of which we know not its shape, we know not its mandate, and that's important, what is it mandated to do, will it have a U.N. mandate, knows that they -- as soon as they set foot in Gaza, which is the first time ever Israel will have allowed an international force into Gaza, ostensibly from Israel's perspective, making sure that Gaza is no longer going to be a threat to Israel, they risk walking that tightrope as peacemakers and peace bringers to both sides, an expectation from Israel that they will get rid of Hamas' weapons.

Hamas' expectations right now that they will continue to have a role and be involved in policing and have AK-47s and not tell everyone where their tunnels are, which Israel expects to be destroyed. You risk being perceived by one side or the other as shading your favors towards the other side, and that immediately puts your troops in danger. I think that is a huge contemplation for any of the leaders, 20-plus coming.

ANDERSON: Yes. And it is the concrete offers of support that the Trump administration will now be trying to pin down from a group of leaders who -- and I want to bring up a shot actually, Nic. This is what is known in diplomatic terms, I know it's your world, not ours, but the NY8., Donald Trump with the leaders in New York a couple of weeks ago of Arab countries and mostly Muslim majority countries. This is a group that threw its weight behind the first iteration of Donald Trump's plan for peace. It was 21 points at that stage. Once it had gone through the Israeli washer, as it were, it became 20, and I think it's fair to say frame much more in Israel's favor.

But it is those leaders, plus others as we understand it, who will be here in Sharm el-Sheikh. The plus, plus is unclear at this point. We are pretty confident the Israeli prime minister won't be here. But apart from that, it looks like there is an effort by the Trump administration to really get everybody on board, nail them down. And before Donald Trump sort of walks away from these talks, as it were, because he's got other things to do, and introduces those who will work on sort of layer two and layer three, they want a broader understanding of who is offering support, correct?

ROBERTSON: Absolutely. And when you look at it from a diplomatic perspective, particularly through a historic lens, we've been through these sort of peace summits in Sharm before, between Israel and --

ANDERSON: This is the city of peace.

ROBERTSON: This is the city of peace.

ANDERSON: It prides itself on that.

ROBERTSON: And it delivers a very good peace summit and it delivers decent peace gains afterwards. But every time those gains have been eroded and the situation has worsened, and that's where we're at now. So, those eight. Indonesia, I think, is almost a sort of a newcomer to this game. It's got a new president. It's the largest Muslim majority nation in the world. And he wants to have, as I understand from my sources, a role on the international diplomatic stage. And as we understand so far, he's offered 20,000 peacekeepers or boots on the ground or whatever stabilization force. Is that the number that's required in total?

Turkey, we understand, may contribute, has experience in these roles under a U.N. mandate in Afghanistan, the first to go in.

ANDERSON: Pakistan again.

ROBERTSON: Pakistan again.

ANDERSON: Another leader in the room.

ROBERTSON: Important for visualization in the region that it is perhaps more Muslim troops on the ground than it is, let's say, from Europe. There will be lessons learned there as well from history on that account. We're going back, you know, maybe 100 years here. But the fact that President Trump is trying to sort of bring in others along with these really speaks to trying to broaden it out.

And also, there is reticence in the region here to be seen, to be financing that -- refinancing the damage that Israel has created they see it as. And also, the sense, as you said before, that this could just be money invested and then it all collapses. And what's the point?

There's -- history has taught the countries in this region that have more leverage now than they did in the past to be cautious.

ANDERSON: What I think has been really interesting out of all of this and our closest conversation with this is the importance and significance of American leadership in this region, which had been so lost to a degree, certainly over the last few years, certainly through the Biden administration.

[04:30:00]

Much talk that, you know, was the U.S. really interested in in the Middle East going forward. Then we saw the attack on Qatar, you know, and this real concern. I think this is the catalyst for this, Israel's attack on Hamas in Qatar, and a real sense that the U.S. sort of regional security guarantee -- its role as a guarantor was no longer robust. And I think when I hear those that I speak to around this region applauding Donald Trump's efforts here, you know, everybody will tell you we should have won a Nobel Prize for this. I mean, that's echoed across the region.

ROBERTSON: Look at the (INAUDIBLE).

ANDERSON: Restoring that leadership.

ROBERTSON: It didn't break over Gaza, did it? The Abraham Accords didn't break over Gaza. People thought they might. That was a Donald Trump achievement. It's based on economy. He brings a different view to peace solving than previous leaders. So, yes.

ANDERSON: And you might not like it. You might not like his statecraft. But what people in this region say is it's working, at least in the first instance. What happens next is a Swiss cheese full of holes. We'll see where it goes. Maintaining momentum is so important. Nic, thank you.

Well, meanwhile, we've learned earlier today that three Qatari diplomats have died in a car accident here on their way in for tomorrow's summit. They were part of the Qatari Emir's administration and included a member of the royal family, according to Qatar's embassy in Cairo. Two others were injured in that crash, which occurred earlier today when the steering wheel of their car malfunctioned. The two are receiving treatment in the city's international hospital. Qatar, you know, integrally involved -- crucially involved in mediating these talks and getting this ceasefire deal across the line. We send the State of Qatar our condolences.

Still ahead this hour, much more on the ceasefire in Gaza. We will discuss the next steps in the process and the challenges, the risks inherently involved here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:35:00]

ANDERSON: Welcome back. You join U.S. here in Sharm el-Sheikh just after 11:30 a.m. Sunday, same time in Israel. And if things go according to plan, within 24 hours Israel expects to start receiving the remaining hostages from Gaza. According to the country's hostage coordinator, that process will likely begin Monday morning.

Well, also on Monday, U.S. President Trump scheduled to be in Israel and then to come here to Sharm el-Sheikh to co-host a summit on Gaza with Egypt's President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. That summit is expected to formalize the ceasefire agreement Well, in Gaza, thousands of Palestinians displaced during this war have been returning home to find only ruin. In the first two days since the ceasefire was announced, search teams have recovered more than 250 bodies from the rubble of destroyed buildings.

But some relief is on the way. Aid trucks have been gradually rolling into southern Gaza. Egyptian media report that about 400 trucks are expected to enter in the day ahead.

Well, Nomi Bar-Yaacov is an international peace negotiator specializing in the Middle East. She's also a fellow at the Geneva Center for Security Policy. And she joins me today from London. And it's good to have you. You and I have been speaking quite regularly recently. And you have credited Donald Trump's concerted effort for getting U.S. here. Just explain. And how do you envision the U.S. taking on the enormous effort now of keeping maintaining the momentum going from here?

NOMI BAR-YAACOV, INTERNATIONAL PEACE NEGOTIATOR AND FELLOW, GENEVA CENTRE FOR SECURITY POLICY: Thank you very much, Becky, for having me on again. Yes, I give President Trump credit for getting us here. I do think he could have done it earlier, but better late than never.

And given that we are here and given that tomorrow he's gathering leaders from very important key states with a stake, especially the ones from the Gulf and neighboring states, of course, Egypt and Jordan, of course, the summit is co-hosted with President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi and the king of Jordan will be there, and I assume also the crown prince of Saudi Arabia.

And the real issue for me, at least, observing all of this is, is the U.S. finally going to understand that it cannot lead the process from this point onwards? I mean, the main aim of the summit is to gather momentum for the second phase. That's the post hostage release and prisoner release exchange we're expecting tomorrow.

But also to work out the fine details and fill in all those gaps in the 20-point plan, which is very different to the 21-point plan, which is what was agreed between the Muslim and Arab states on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly. So, a lot of work ahead. And I envisage I don't think it -- I think Donald Trump would like to keep the momentum. I think he was potentially motivated by the Nobel. The Nobel didn't happen. Now, he will be motivated by a big deal that he's been talking about and aspiring to get with Saudi Arabia.

And the only way you can get normalization and also, you know, the American deal with Saudi Arabia, the only way to get it really to have a secure path towards a viable, contiguous Palestinian State, which includes, of course, Gaza and the West Bank.

ANDERSON: Yes. And I hope we can get to that. Just before we do, short-term, do you believe Netanyahu will be an honest partner going forward once the hostages are released? And let's hope that we begin to see that happening, you know, just hours from now. And of course, there's the thorny issues of Israel fully withdrawing from Gaza and Hamas disarming. that's all going to be sorted out. Is there -- you know, to that Hamas disarming issue, is there any ambiguity on that? Do you think that could hold this ceasefire together and on track?

BAR-YAACOV: So, there's huge -- you asked three different questions. So, I'll unpack them quickly. A, I don't trust Netanyahu. Is he going to be an honest -- is he going to abide by the agreement? He will try not to. He'll do everything within his power to obstruct the agreement.

[04:40:00]

Already today, his defense minister, who is a spokesperson for him, announced on X in Hebrew that Israel will -- Israel, the IDF, the Israeli army, will destroy the tunnels. That's their first task. All the tunnels in Gaza after the hostage release. So, you know, that obviously cannot happen. That -- it's not for the Israeli army to do. No stabilization force will work with Israel.

Yes, CENTCOM, the Central Command, is going to be based in Israel, but it's going to be so important to have a conflict resolution mechanism, a monitoring, but also a resolution mechanism with Egypt, Qatar, Turkey, and the U.S. because they're going to be daily obstructions, both by Hamas and potentially other factions in Gaza and by Israel.

Netanyahu's interpretation of the 20-point plan is very different to that of Hamas'. The ambiguity that you are talking about in your second question isn't only about the disarmament and the line of withdrawal. I mean, the line of withdrawal is not ambiguous. The first agreement said the 21-point plan that was agreed on the sidelines of the General Assembly with the Muslim and Arab states stated very clearly full withdrawal. That full withdrawal is unambiguous.

And the second -- after the amendments that Netanyahu put in with -- after his meeting with Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, the envoys -- President Trump's envoys, it changed to a withdrawal to the perimeter line. The perimeter line isn't defined, may I add. So, it's not only that it's not a full withdrawal, but a perimeter line can change. So, that's one ambiguity. There are many ambiguities. And the other one, of course, is the disarmament. Huge disagreement on how to do this.

ANDERSON: Yes. I want to put up point 19 of Trump's plan very briefly, which talks about a reformed PA and an aspiration for statehood and self-determination for the Palestinian people. That's what the actual plan says. Again, you know, it's -- the language is very loose at this point.

From your perspective, you're well-sourced, particularly with Gulf allies, particularly with Saudi, and you started by saying, you know, can normalization get back on track? Is this an offer, you know, that Netanyahu, you know, needs in order to, you know, play an honest broker in all of this? What's your sense of a -- you know, of a two- state solution off the back of this, two nations, two states living side by side? Do you see that as a reality?

BAR-YAACOV: Well, I would be very cautious about referring to Netanyahu as an honest broker. I think you heard the boos of the Israeli population, 400,000 of them, I think, representing the very vast majority of the country. So, he's -- honest is not a word that they associate with him.

And I think that -- again, the disarmament is the ambiguity there. We didn't get into the fine details. If you have time, I will be happy to answer that in more detail. The issue with the two states, well, Israel has bitten far deep into the West Bank and has flattened Gaza. So, by flattening Gaza, I think the aim was to try to expel, to forcibly expel the Gaza population. That didn't happen.

I mean, it was this government's position. It is still the position of ministers like Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben-Gvir to ensure that -- to ensure an obstruction of the peace plan and a Jewish settlement of Gaza. I don't think that will happen.

I very much hope that two states will happen. Two states, of course, are meant to be along the lines of the 1967 borders, the so-called Green Line, and much of the West Bank has been settled by Jews. So, it's a question really of working out the details of how to do it. Is it possible? Yes, with political will, everything is possible, but the borders will have to be somewhat redefined with a one-on-one exchange of territory so that the actually -- so Palestinian State doesn't lose any territory.

ANDERSON: It's going to be really interesting to see how the region, including the Gulf leadership, will use their own leverage at this point alongside the Americans to ensure, one, the maintenance of momentum at this point through this first phase, and then what, you know, any sort of day after, loosely termed as it were, looks like for Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.

Nomi, it's terrific having you on. Thank you very much indeed. I'm sorry that we didn't have as long as we might otherwise have to talk. Your analysis and insight is so important to us. Thank you.

Well, that's it from me. I'm Becky Anderson in Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt for this hour. I will, though, be back at the top of the next hour for our continuing coverage here from Sharm el-Sheikh. For now, it is over to my colleague, Kim, in Atlanta for a look at the other news headlines of the day. Kim.

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KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Kim Brunhuber in Atlanta. Ukraine is hoping for some diplomatic momentum from the ceasefire agreement in Gaza. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy spoke with U.S. President Donald Trump on Saturday, saying the progress in Gaza could set an example for Ukraine. Kevin Liptak has the details.

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KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: President Trump's phone call on Saturday with his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskyy just underscored that for all of the success that the president has had in brokering this agreement in Gaza, the war in Ukraine still remains an outstanding conflict that he has so far been unsuccessful in trying to resolve.

In this phone call, which Zelenskyy described as positive and productive, the Ukrainian leader congratulated the president for his success in this Gaza arrangement. And he wrote on social media that, quote, "If a war can be stopped in one region, then surely other wars can be stopped as well, including the Russian war," suggesting that the president's success in the Middle East could lend momentum to his efforts to try and resolve the Ukraine conflict. That does reflect something that I've heard from administration officials over the last several days, which is that the president's deal-making success between Israel and Hamas could potentially lend further grist to his efforts to try and resolve the Ukraine war.

Now, how exactly that happens remains unclear. So, far, the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has shown no signs that he's ready to let up in Ukraine. And President Trump's efforts to arrange a trilateral meeting between Zelenskyy, Putin and himself have so far been unsuccessful.

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One thing that I think is almost certain that Zelenskyy and Trump discussed on this phone call was Zelenskyy's requests for those long- range Tomahawk missiles that would allow Ukraine to strike much further inside Russian territory. President Trump said last week that, quote, "he had sort of made a decision on whether to provide those weapons to Ukraine, but that he wanted to hear from Kyiv first about how precisely it planned to use them."

Now, this conversation occurring as President Trump prepared to depart for the Middle East, he's expected to leave on Sunday afternoon for Israel, where he will address the parliament there, the Knesset. He will also travel to Sharm el-Sheikh, the Egyptian Red Sea resort, where this deal was finalized last week. He's expected to participate in a signing ceremony there. Also, on hand will be a number of his foreign counterparts, including the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, and the French president, Emmanuel Macron.

Now, I think the sentiment inside the administration in the lead-up to this trip was probably best vocalized by Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, who was speaking in Hostages Square in Tel Aviv on Saturday when he said that they were not going to celebrate that night, they would celebrate once the hostages come out. You know, the administration acknowledges that this is still quite a fragile moment. As one U.S. official said last week, quote, "There's still just a lot of ways that this can go wrong." So, certainly a sense of celebration and anticipation, but also a recognition that this deal remains a delicate one.

Kevin Liptak, CNN, The White House.

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BRUNHUBER: Diane Keaton, a truly original movie star, has died. When we come back, we'll take a look at the legacy she leaves in film and beyond. Please stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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BRUNHUBER: Award-winning actress Diane Keaton has died at age 79. She was famous for excelling at comedy and drama and for quirky sense of style. She broke out on Broadway in the 1960s, moving to Hollywood with her role in "The Godfather." Keaton won an Academy Award for Best Actress for her work in "Annie Hall." She credited the film for allowing her to take on all types of roles and to stretch her creative wings. Keaton was also celebrated for her gender non-conforming style, known for incorporating menswear into her signature style. She's survived by her two children.

All right. That wraps this hour of CNN Newsroom. I'm Kim Brunhuber. My colleague Becky Anderson will have the latest from Israel and Gaza right after this quick break.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

ANDERSON: Hello and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Becky Anderson live for --

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