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Organizers: Nearly 7M People Joined U.S. "No Kings" Rallies; Remains Of 11 Hostage Returned To Israel Identified; Russians, Ukrainians Skeptical Of Trump's Ceasefire Call. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired October 19, 2025 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:26]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM:

Peaceful protests against Donald Trump all across the U.S. We will take you to the streets of the "No Kings" rallies.

Calls for more hostage remains to be released as we learn the identity of one of the bodies already handed over to Israel by Hamas.

And Russian forces surge ahead in Ukraine. Even while the U.S. president has called for a halt in the fighting.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: Good to have you with us.

And we begin here in the U.S. with a peaceful and massive display of dissent. Americans in every single state are denouncing what they describe as Donald Trump's authoritarian agenda. Protesters gathered in big cities and small towns for a new round of "No Kings" rallies. Organizers say nearly 7 million people joined, condemning what they call the Trump administrations violent immigration raids. Hateful rhetoric against minorities and cuts to Medicaid and other policies.

Republicans blasted the protests before they even happened, claiming they would be anti-American. The Trump team even suggesting they'd include terrorists. But not only were they largely peaceful, they were often joyful. Protesters wore inflatable animal costumes, danced and waved American flags, saying it was important to celebrate their love for the United States and fight for democracy.

Police in cities from San Diego, California, to Austin, Texas, thanked protesters for carrying out peaceful and respectful demonstrations. The protesters have international support, too, with crowds gathering in Toronto and Mexico City.

The mayor of Los Angeles told CNN it's important for citizens to speak up for their rights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR KAREN BASS (D), LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: What is going on around the country right now is people just exercising their First Amendment rights and people being very concerned that their First Amendment rights are being taken away. I mean, when you have the raids that now started in Los Angeles but have spread to several other cities, when you see people, you know coming out of helicopters and invading apartment buildings and just seizing people, we cannot accept this. We do not want the military intervention in our cities to become normalized.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And we are covering the protests across the United States. CNN's Julia Vargas jones is in Los Angeles. But first, we go to Brian Todd in the nation's capital.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is a typical scene here at the "No Kings" rally in Washington, D.C. People dancing around, people in inflatable costumes, in all sorts of different costumes and all sorts of colorful and interesting signs that they're flashing. This rally was a scene of tens of thousands of people gathered here at the foot of the capitol on Pennsylvania Avenue.

Now, a couple of central themes here for this rally in Washington and all over the country. This is one of more than 2,500 events that were staged for the "No Kings" events on this day.

Now, Ezra Levin, he's one of the co-founders and co-organizers of the "No Kings" rallies. He told CNN earlier that they have two main goals for these rallies. One, he said, is to burst the bubble of inevitability, the idea that no one can challenge President Trump. And another was to gather more momentum for more events like this across the country to resist the Trump administration, which he calls a, quote, "an authoritarian regime".

Now, on the other side, Republicans like House Speaker Mike Johnson and some senators have said that this crowd is anti-American, that they're America haters. Mike Johnson said that some of the people who come here are pro-Hamas and antifa supporters, the people who organized this deny all of that. They say it's because they love America so much that they wanted to hold this rally.

Here in Washington, we've seen speakers like Senator Bernie Sanders, Senator Chris murphy, Bill Nye the Science Guy from TV, all speaking about different issues here. Another issue was the idea of security and maybe the potential for violence.

Now, this rally here, and as we just show you again down Pennsylvania Avenue, where the crowd is still fairly thick here, this this rally here has been very peaceful so far. No issues really regarding law enforcement, no need for law enforcement to intercede here, so far, and the Department of Homeland Security did issue a caution ahead of these rallies, that there was the possibility of violence, that there was the possibility that maybe some agitators who are known to show up at these events would show up and start trouble.

[03:05:11]

And they also said to kind of look out for counter protesters and things like that. That has not been an issue so far at this rally. A fairly heavy police presence all around this event. But the police are kind of hanging back. Not really interceding at all, and kind of letting things play out.

So very spirited and animated and energetic turnout here in Washington.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This demonstration in downtown Los Angeles feels very much like a celebration if everybody else's celebration was pissed off. But it is very much about Donald Trump. We're seeing so many people doing the same thing. We're seeing exactly this, figures of Donald Trump in various outfits holding a Bible or perhaps being arrested and chained.

But a lot of folks here are saying also that immigration is their number one concern. Of course, Los Angeles, a city that is almost 50 percent Latino or Hispanic, it is a city that has seen also so many immigration enforcement actions over the past few months, and people are very much angry about that.

I spoke to some folks who say that they feel like their community is being targeted by this. I spoke to a Mexican man that explained why he was here today. Take a listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For myself, I feel like they are attacking my rights, Mexican. And that's why I'm here, because of people.

JONES: Your people?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My people, yes. So, we are passing through bad times now. So -- and we're just working here. We don't do anything wrong. Not all, some people.

But most people, we are working only. That's why I sit here. And they can see we are not doing what they are doing to my people.

JONES: And that's just one of the folks that we spoke to. Many other people said that immigration is their main concern.

But there are also some other issues being represented here. We're seeing some Palestinian flags. We're seeing folks with signs saying vote yes on Prop 50, the proposition in California that would add, likely add, five Democratic seats in Congress to counter the move in Texas.

It is wide-ranging, of course, but the one combined message, a very clear, streamlined message of "No Kings". It is very much targeted at Donald Trump. But organizers here say that they hope that everybody that is coming to these demonstrations across the country is staying peaceful.

And so, far, that is exactly what they have been very successful at doing. Although we have seen some folks with gas masks and helmets. They're saying they really hope that they don't have to use this in any altercations with police.

Julia Vargas Jones, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: These large crowds made their voices heard across the U.S. in what was often a party atmosphere, but with a serious purpose. While the government shutdown grinds on with no end in sight, and President Trump is speaking at a million dollar a plate fundraiser at Mar-a- Lago, he blames Democrats for the shutdown.

Well, CNN's senior political analyst and "Bloomberg Opinion" columnist Ron Brownstein joins me now.

Good to have you with us.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So, Ron, peaceful anti-Trump demonstrations held in every state across the country Saturday. Millions of protesters pushing back on what they call the presidents authoritarian agenda. How significant are these "No Kings" rallies when it comes to exercising free speech in this current climate? And what impact might they have on the midterms next year if this same level of enthusiasm can be sustained?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, when Kamala Harris was raising alarms about Donald Trump and his potential effect on the American Constitution and American democracy in '24, it was all theoretical, you know, and it was against the backdrop of people being very concerned about immediate concerns about the cost of living.

And here we are, nine months or so into his presidency, and we have seen the deployment of the national guard into multiple cities in the U.S. We have seen the justice department prosecute, people he perceives as adversaries while he is pardoning and commuting sentences for those he perceives as allies, including those involved, in January 6th, we've seen the federal communications commission chairman pressure a television network, to force off the air a comic who was a critic of the president.

In other words, a lot of the stuff that was being discussed in the abstract is now very real for a lot of Americans. And, you know, you can see the tension increasing the alarm increasing. And I think, you know, I was out again at one of the "No Kings" rallies today.

[03:10:00]

And I think the dominant view among the people who come out for these rallies is that there is no institution in American life, not the media, certainly not the business community, not really the Democratic Partys national leadership that is fully grappling with the magnitude of the challenges we are facing to our understanding of the rule of law and the constitutional safeguards that have guided this country, you know, for over 200 years.

CHURCH: So, Ron, let's turn now to the government shutdown heading into day 19 with no end in sight. What damage has already been done? What's it going to take to make a deal? And who are American voters blaming at this time, as more and more people are feeling the pain of this shutdown?

BROWNSTEIN : Yeah. You know, it's a little hard. I mean, it's a strange dynamic because on the one hand, the substance of what they are arguing about is something that could lend itself eventually to a deal. I mean, the core Democratic demand is to extend the subsidies that were created during the pandemic for people buying health care on the exchanges under the Affordable Care Act.

Well, Rosemary, the principal beneficiaries of those subsidies are in red states and in red districts. There are more people receiving those subsidies in districts represented by Republicans than Democrats. And so, you know, there is an incentive for a certain number of Republicans to peel off and ultimately support a deal.

But at this point, the administration and the Republican leadership in Congress is basically saying, we are not going to negotiate with, you know, this gun at our head. In fairness, that's what Democrats said in the past when Republicans have used the government shutdown.

So, you know, on the one hand, someone has to kind of blink and climb down and essentially agree to negotiate while this is going on, whether it's the Democrats agreeing to a negotiation before reopening the government or after before reopening the government, or Republicans saying they will negotiate. But the substance of a deal should be there when they are ready to start talking to each other.

CHURCH: And Ron, as all this plays out, President Trump is using the full force of his Department of Justice to go after perceived foes, as you mentioned, with very little resistance from congress or the judiciary. Where do you see this retaliatory action going as well as all the punitive firings that are happening right now?

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah. Well, you know, there is a famous or maybe infamous saying attributed to the South American dictator during the 1930s. For my friends, everything, for my enemies, the law. And, you know, I'm kind of wondering if they're going to end up inscribing that on the Justice Department building, because on the one hand, we are seeing Trump as I said, commute sentences and issue pardons for anyone who he sees as an ally, who is lining up behind his political movement, know how, no matter how serious the offense or how strong the evidence.

And then on the flip side of the coin, you are seeing him use the full weight of the Justice Department to prosecute those he perceives as adversaries, no matter how flimsy the case, whether it's James Comey or Letitia James or John Bolton. Maybe a more serious case, but it's hard to imagine this Justice Department would have brought it if he was writing op eds praising Trump's foreign policy acumen.

So, you know, we are in a period in which the administration of justice as being more politicized, and certainly at any point in my lifetime, Richard Nixon may have hoped to do things like this, but ultimately, he was blocked by officials in his own government. The internal revenue service, for example, ignored his requests to target his enemies list. Now we see Donald Trump doing the same things that Nixon mused about in private, openly and in public. And I think he is doing that, Rosemary, for a very specific and clear reason. He is trying to send a signal that if you are on his team, like the South American dictator said 100 years ago, everything is possible.

And if you are not, any threat is possible. It is a serious moment in the country, and it's a kind of thing that fueled this record turnout of people today on the streets of the country.

CHURCH: Some sobering analysis there.

Ron Brownstein, many thanks for joining us. Appreciate it.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.

CHURCH: Well, Russia is pressing ahead with its offensive in Ukraine, despite Washington's call for a ceasefire. Still to come, a battle for a city under siege that Ukraine is desperately trying to hold on to.

Also ahead, why Donald Trump's push to stop the fighting is leaving many people on both sides of the conflict skeptical.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:18:37]

CHURCH: The body of one of two Israeli hostages released from Gaza on Saturday has been identified as Ronan Engel. That is according to the kibbutz where he was killed on October 7th, more than two years ago. Engel's remains were handed over with a second hostage, who has not yet been identified. Hamas' delay in returning all of the deceased hostages is a source of growing frustration among Israelis, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The war in Gaza will finally end when the terms of the agreement that was supposedly accepted are implemented, and this includes, first of all, phase A, the return of all of our hostages.

This is phase A, so there is phase B. Phase B also includes the disarmament of Hamas, or rather the disarmament of the strip. And before that, the disarmament of Hamas. When it is finished and ends successfully, I hope the easy way, but if not the hard way, then the war will be over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Large crowds of demonstrators gathered in Tel Aviv's hostages square to push for the release of the remaining hostages' bodies. Some protesters held large banners slamming Netanyahu and calling on U.S. president Donald Trump to take over the negotiations.

Hamas is now denying U.S. claims that the militant group is planning an attack against Palestinians in Gaza.

[03:20:01]

The U.S. State Department said it received credible reports that Hamas may violate the ceasefire deal it reached with Israel. The U.S. statement goes on to say, and I'm quoting here, should Hamas proceed with this attack, measures will be taken to protect the people of Gaza and preserve the integrity of the ceasefire.

Israel is now delaying the planned reopening of Gaza's key border crossing with Egypt, and Hamas says that's a blatant violation of the terms of the ceasefire agreement.

Larry Madowo has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Israeli and Palestinian disagreement over the Rafah border crossing spilled into the open Saturday. The Palestinian embassy in Egypt put out a statement saying that the Rafah border crossing would reopen on Monday. For Palestinians that want to go back into Gaza. But then just minutes later, the office of the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, said it would not reopen until further notice. The Rafah border crossing is key to Palestinians accessing Egypt medical treatment, seeing family there's tens of thousands of Palestinians that live in Egypt. The disagreement over the hostages, the deceased hostages is at the core of this.

Israel believes that Hamas is in breach of the ceasefire deal mediated by the U.S. But Hamas says it is committed to that deal, but it's having difficulty accessing the bodies, partly because the enclave was bombed out so badly. Most of it is in rubble and they don't have the earth-moving equipment. More of the bulldozers needed to dig through the rubble to retrieve these bodies, and they accuse Israel of not allowing those to come in. U.S. officials hope to go to phase two of that ceasefire agreement.

In the meantime, there's a need for a further surge of aid. The U.N. warning for days that aid needs to come in at a much higher level across all the border crossings, and the World Food Program, for instance, saying it has the food necessary to feed Gazans for at least three months, but it just needs to come in as quickly as possible.

Larry Madowo, CNN, Nairobi.

(END VIDEOTAPE) CHURCH: Pakistan and Afghanistan have agreed to an immediate ceasefire after a week of fierce clashes at their shared border. The agreement came during talks held in Doha and mediated by Qatar and Turkey. Dozens of people were killed and hundreds more wounded in days of fighting. It was the worst violence between the onetime allies since the Taliban took power four years ago. The clashes started when Islamabad accused the Taliban led government in Kabul of giving safe haven to militants who were launching attacks in Pakistan. It's a claim the Taliban denies.

Trump administration officials are quietly discussing another meeting between the U.S. president and Kim Jong-un. Mr. Trump met the North Korean leader during his first term as president. Mr. Trump will visit Asia next month and has expressed interest in sitting down with his North Korean counterpart. However, administration officials are skeptical it will ultimately happen.

Recently, Kim Jong-un said he has fond memories of Trump from their last meeting. But he says any meeting would require the U.S. to drop its demands that North Korea denuclearize. Mr. Trump is the only sitting U.S. president to have met with a North Korean leader.

The U.S. president's latest call to stop the fighting in Ukraine appears to be falling on deaf ears in Moscow. Ukraine says Russia pummeled it with more than 260 guided aerial bombs on Friday, a new record, while a Russian blogger claims there's fighting in the center of Kupiansk, a city that's been under Russian siege for more than a year. CNN cannot confirm that. But Ukraine said this week that dozens of Russian troops infiltrated the city.

As Salma Abdelaziz reports, ordinary Russians and Ukrainians don't have much faith that peace is coming.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. President Donald Trump, once again, taking on the role of mediator in chief, meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Friday, and in the coming weeks, set to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin at a summit in Hungary to discuss ending the war in Ukraine.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think we have a good chance. I think President Zelenskyy wants it done, and I think President Putin wants it done. Now, all they have to do is get along a little bit.

ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): But even if the U.S. president believes there is momentum for a potential peace deal in Ukraine, especially after the ceasefire in Gaza, some people back in Kyiv are skeptical that more talk, even at such high levels, will make a difference after more than three and a half years of war.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): They say one thing and do another, but we, the people of Ukraine, are suffering under the shelling. There is no electricity or water. This is our situation. This is the war. ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): Trump has called for both Ukraine and Russia to stop the fighting at their current battle lines.

[03:25:03]

But many Ukrainians say they don't trust Russia to keep its word.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Even if we stop at the current borders, Russia will mass its forces during the ceasefire and then attack again with greater numbers.

ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): There were mixed feelings in Moscow, too, about what could be achieved at another meeting between Trump and Putin after there were no breakthroughs at a previous summit in August in Alaska.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I think it's already quite obvious that this is some kind of mundane news. In my opinion, it's just another meeting, another phone call. So, I don't know. I'm not expecting anything.

ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): Still, the prospect of peace is something both people in Moscow and Kyiv say they hope for.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): God willing, everything will end peacefully. And perhaps even the special military operation will come to its logical conclusion.

ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): A peace that U.S. President Donald Trump would very much like to broker, but one that people on both sides of the war are growing wary of waiting for.

Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: At least four people are injured after a massive high-rise fire in downtown Hong Kong on Saturday. Videos from the scene showed intense flames erupting out of the building, and a huge plume of smoke. Officials say it took firefighters more than four hours to put out the blaze. Dozens of people were evacuated in the process. The high-rise is located in the city's central business district and has more than 25 stories.

I'm Rosemary Church in Atlanta. For our viewers in North America. I will be back in just a moment with more news. And for our international viewers, "QUEST'S WORLD OF WONDER" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:30:23]

CHURCH: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Rosemary Church.

Want to check todays top stories for you. Israeli officials have identified the remains of the 11th deceased hostage released from Gaza since the ceasefire took effect. Ronen Engel was killed on October 7th, more than two years ago in kibbutz Nir Oz. Engels' remains were handed over Saturday, with a second hostage, who was not yet been identified.

Russia is apparently trying to lock in the gains from its summer offensive in Ukraine. A Russian blogger claims fighting is now underway in the center of the city of Kupiansk, which is under siege. CNN cannot confirm that, but Ukraine said earlier that some Russian troops had infiltrated the city.

Protest organizers say some 7 million people turned out for "No Kings" rallies across the United States. On Saturday, Americans held peaceful protests in all 50 states, in cities large and small. They rallied against what they say is the Trump administration's authoritarian agenda, including its crackdown on immigration and free speech.

Well, tens of thousands of people gathered yesterday for Chicago's "No Kings" protest, one of hundreds across the U.S. The city has become the epicenter of the Trump administration's crackdown on immigration.

On Saturday, protesters had a clear message for the president. They want ICE agents out of their city and no leaders with imperialist ambitions.

CNN's Whitney Wild tells us how they made sure their message hit home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: There are thousands of people who have taken to the streets in Chicago.

This is Wacker. This is one of the really iconic streets here in Chicago. This is right along the river. It is one of the most recognizable spots in the city.

And we are right outside Trump Tower. And when you hear this crowd walk by Trump Tower, you hear people chanting, shame. You hear chants of boos. You see people giving those letters. The middle finger.

This is as a group, the people here believe that this is the strongest rebuke they can give the Trump administration. This is the loudest message they can send to him is getting together in an enormous mass. We are talking about, again, tens of thousands of people here in the streets of Chicago to send the same message. They are saying, in a word, "no".

Other people I spoke with who said that they came out today, who said that their message to the Trump administration is obey the law, obey the constitution. Other people out here are telling me about their personal experiences and what it feels like to live in this city right now and live just outside the city, as you see these ICE actions.

One woman whose parents are from Mexico told me that her neighborhood feels different. It feels quiet. She said that people are afraid, that she's out here today because they can't be out here, because they're afraid to be out here.

Here's more from what she told me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, unfortunately, there's been a lot of, you know, ICE agents hitting the blocks where I'm from or where I do come from. And, you know, I, like I said, I come from immigrant parents, I have immigrant family members. And just seeing the fear in their face every day, having to go to work and hopefully coming back, it's just very scary.

WILD: What is really striking when you come out here are a few things. I mean, the first is just the wide range of different types of people who are here. Weve seen famous actors. Weve seen people from all, all age groups, all races, all different parts of the city, far outside the city, places like Nashville, Tennessee, here today to make their voices heard.

The other thing you notice when you're out here is the signs. If you can see behind me, I mean, look at here. See, supercalifragile racist, sexist, Nazi, POTUS. That's the type of homemade sign you're seeing out here. These are the ways that people are sending their messages again to the Trump administration outside Trump tower, high above their heads here in the city of Chicago.

And then finally, among all of the anger here, one message is very clear, based on everyone I spoke to today. And they say that at times like this, they are feeling hopeless. But it is rallies like this. It is a camaraderie they feel in the crowd from people they don't even know who care about their experiences, that make them feel like in these very challenging times, that there is hope.

So that is what it feels like here on the streets of Chicago. Again, tens of thousands of people here at that rally.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[03:35:02]

CHURCH: Two survivors of a U.S. strike on a vessel in the Caribbean were returned to their home countries of Ecuador and Colombia on Saturday. Administration officials were said to be scrambling to decide what to do with them after they were detained. This is the first time there have been survivors out of six known strikes on watercraft in the Caribbean. The U.S. says it's targeting drug trafficking, but so far, the U.S. has provided no evidence that this vessel or any of the other vessels previously hit were engaged in drug trafficking.

And questions are mounting over the legality of the strikes, as the White House relies on a classified legal opinion to justify the lethal military action. Officials also argue that the Constitution grants broad authority to the president to carry out the strikes.

Michael Moore is a former U.S. attorney who is a partner at Moore Hall in Atlanta.

Appreciate you joining us.

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: It's my pleasure. Glad to be with you.

CHURCH: So what is your response to Donald Trump declaring the U.S. is at war with drug cartels without congressional approval and using his presidential powers to strike boats with deadly force without providing any evidence? Instead of charging these individuals and affording them due process.

MOORE: Yeah. You know, I think this is a troubling sign, but it's not surprising for this administration. And for some reason, and maybe it's been because we've had a relative silence from our courts. The president thinks that because he calls something something, he gives it some name that that in fact makes it so. And so, that's what he's done here is he's essentially labeled these individuals who are allegedly trafficking in drugs, he's labeled them narco terrorists, as if somehow that's going to allow him to use some emergency powers to come in and use military force against them.

That's troubling in in a lot of ways. And frankly, should be alarming to, to anyone. You know, historically, we've dealt with drug crimes as a regular criminal statute. And they've had regular criminal penalties. And we have gone through due process for individuals who've been charged with drug crimes.

But here, he's using deadly force under the idea that somehow he has declared war, or that we are in an armed conflict. If you will, with these individuals. That's just simply not borne out by the evidence. And it also, it appears to me to be an effort to sidestep and to skirt around the powers under the U.S. Constitution, which, in fact give Congress the power to make these declarations and not the president.

So, I think there'll be a lot to answer for. The question will be when, in fact, will the court come in and take these things up? Because, you know, we have, large amount of power vested in the executive at any time. And sometimes that's necessarily so.

But this seems to be so egregious that I think it may have crossed the line.

CHURCH: So, Michael, why hasn't Congress resisted or intervened? And will it be up to the courts now to block this action if Congress fails to do so? But then what if the courts fail to step up as well?

MOORE: Well, the question will be whether or not congress is willing to come in. And, you know, we've seen in the past, there's this reticence to act in order to protect the country and the three branches of government and instead sort of protect the unitary executive. In this case, that's Trump.

And we've seen Congress very hesitant to make any moves against him as the leader of the party in power right now. So, I don't know if they'll come in. I'm concerned about it because I see it not just here, but in other things going on in the country at the same time, whether were talking about, you know, immigration raids and immigration actions that are being done where you're bringing in, military into really cities and states run by the opposition party and some claim that the president is making.

He's saying, look, these places are criminal cesspool or whatever were going to bring in the troops to clean it up. That really runs pretty close to a foul of the powers in the Constitution that he has and a federal law as well.

So, Congress has not been willing to do anything on that. I mean, heck, they're not even willing to come in and make some votes right now. They're out of session. So they've given him a free rein. So I've always thought that the courts would be the better vehicle to come in and sort of bring things under control.

But lately, by use of sort of the emergency shadow docket, they have the Supreme Court especially has postponed, many serious rulings that need to be handed down in an effort to sort of in their view, I think, leave things status quo and defer in some way to the executive, at least while the case cases work their way through litigation.

CHURCH: So how dangerous is this precedent? And could the Trump administration use this same reasoning to enforce laws on U.S. soil?

[03:40:05]

Could that happen?

MOORE: Well, I think that's the concern. I mean, I think it's a terrible precedent to set and you know, the concern would be, you know, you're seeing lethal force used without due process on people who've alleged to have drug trafficking. And the question would be whether or not at some point that could happen closer to home.

You know, we've seen the national guard and, called out and police forces, federalized and militarized to, at the whim of the president as if somehow he's now fighting crime. We've seen people tear gassed or put down in the streets and these types of things, and that's -- that's concerning on a lot of levels. Because it sort of -- is empowering a structure which may, in fact give a president too much authority without any real check.

And so, what we need to see is some of the norms come back into the governmental structure so that we have those checks and balances in place.

CHURCH: And international law prohibits lethal force against unarmed civilians. So why isn't the international community responding to this? And what evidence should the Trump administration be providing to prove these individuals being targeted are actually linked to drug trafficking?

MOORE: Well, I mean, I think you should be seeing that evidence presented certainly to the committees of oversight in the Congress and the Senate, certainly, would be a typical place where you would see this kind of information, perhaps in closed session, take up information about this. The Trump administration claims that they have an order or a legal opinion in place, which authorizes this, but nobody's seen it.

And so, this would be an interesting thing to see. I mean, I think they're probably trying to link it to the same type of actions that we saw after 9/11 here. So those things would be concerning as far as international community you're seeing. I think some antennas going up about what's happening, with this, this type of exercise of power.

You have human rights groups that are concerned about it. You certainly have other international agencies who are raising concerns about this, and these things are being done really with no proof. Theres been no due process, no nothing. Just some claim of intelligence that's been received. And then, you know, we've seen, lethal force carried out, so that that has been alarming, I think, to many, whether or not it raises, the attention and gets to a place like The Hague or otherwise, the international courts. We'll see.

CHURCH: Michael Moore, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

MOORE: It's always my pleasure. Thank you.

CHURCH: After the break, another college joins the ranks of those saying no to Donald Trump's higher education funding deal, which offers expanded access to funds if schools agree to the administration's list of requirements.

And as New Yorkers get ready to choose a new mayor, the candidates face off in their first debate. Some highlights and a breakdown of how things are going. By the numbers. That's next on CNN.

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[03:46:CHURCH: Dartmouth College is the latest school to reject a White House deal that offers expanded access to federal funding in return for a list of changes in school policy. The agreement requires schools to end the consideration of sex and ethnicity in admissions, adopt definitions of gender according to reproductive function, and biological process, and implement a 15 percent cap on international students, among other things. The Trump administration originally extended the deal to nine schools as part of its effort to get universities to align with its political priorities. Six of those schools have declined.

New York City is just a few weeks away from choosing its new mayor, candidates faced off in their first debate this week, sparring over everything from the Israel-Hamas war to how they would handle President Trump. The tense exchanges were notable between Democratic frontrunner Zohran Mamdani, who calls himself a Democratic socialist, and former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, who's running as an independent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANDREW CUOMO (I), NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: This is not a job for a first timer. Any day you could have a hurricane, you have, God forbid, a 9/11, a health pandemic, if you don't know what you're doing, people could die.

MODERATOR: Thank you, Mr. Cuomo. We have -- Mr. Mamdani, you want to respond?

ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: Yeah. And if we have a health pandemic, then why would New Yorkers turn back to the governor who sent seniors to their death in nursing homes? That's the kind of experience that's on offer here today. What I don't have an experience, I make up for in integrity, and what you don't have in integrity, you could never make up for in experience.

CUOMO: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: So how are things likely to play out on election day? Our Harry Enten runs the numbers.

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HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: You see, Democrat Zohran Mamdani crushing the field.

You know, back in September, he was ahead by 15 points over independent Andrew Cuomo, 45 percent to 30 percent. Cuomo was hoping to shrink the gap, shrink the gap between September and election day. But the margin by which Mamdani is leading has become wider. Take a look here.

Now, you see Mamdani right near the 50 percent mark, at 49 percent of my average of polls compared to Andrew Cuomo at 31 percent. That is an 18-point advantage. And then, of course, you have Curtis Sliwa, the Republican way, way back, he was at 17 percent back in September. Now at just 15 percent. So, Mamdani is winning in a divided field.

Now, maybe Sliwa gets out of the race and maybe that helps out Cuomo. I'm not even sure that would be enough. But if Sliwa stays in the race and you get that split competition versus Mamdani, the front runner, here is why I think this race is pretty much gosh darn over in a New York minute.

Take a look. Historically speaking, well, Mamdani right now leads by 18 points. And when I dig into the spreadsheets, I look back at every single New York City mayoral race dating back since 1989. That's 36 years ago.

The largest polling error in the final 21 days of that campaign, it was 11 points back in 2005. I remember that campaign. Mike Bloomberg won reelection, although by a smaller margin than the polls suggested at the time. You see that 11-point error.

Well, you don't have to be a mathematical genius to know that 18 points is significantly bigger than 11 points. So you'd need basically double the largest error in New York city mayoral polls over the last 36 years in order for Mamdani to actually lose, if the polls stay where they are right now. And as I pointed out on slide number one, if anything, Mamdani lead is becoming bigger, wider.

Very bad news for Andrew Cuomo, who, of course, had been hoping to close the gap.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[03:50:01]

CHURCH: The undead are out early this year for Mexico's annual zombie walk. We will have more on the global and ghoulish Halloween tradition. That is next.

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CHURCH: Thousands of people brought the undead to life in Mexico City this weekend. The annual zombie walk took over downtown streets with ghouls of all ages showing off ghastly makeup and elaborate costumes. The spooky parade originated in Sacramento, California, back in 2001, but has since spread worldwide. A frightfully fun way to get a head start on Halloween festivities.

Well, gold prices have been soaring and that's impacting jewelry sales in India. At the start of Diwali, the Hindu festival of lights. While the total value of sales rose sharply due to higher prices, the overall volume of gold purchased was down by 10 to 15 percent.

[03:55:00]

Traders say consumers are choosing to exchange old jewelry or opting for silver accessories. Local gold prices peaked at more than $1,500 per ten grams on Friday, marking a 60 percent increase since last year's festival.

All right, now to U.S. college football, where Saturday's top 10 showdown saw the number nine ranked University of Georgia mount a comeback against number five University of Mississippi. The score was close throughout the first half before Ole Miss pulled ahead, closing out the third quarter with a nine-point advantage. But the Bulldogs would rally at the start of the fourth quarter. This touchdown pass from Georgia quarterback Gunner Stockton was his fourth of the day and put them back in the lead with 7-1/2 minutes remaining. UGA never looked back, winning 43 to 35 and bringing their record to six and one.

Well, the nation's highest scoring offense. Tennessee struggled in a rivalry match against sixth-ranked Alabama, a pick six interception by cornerback Xavion Brown crowned the Crimson Tides' best defensive performance so far this season. Alabama stayed in front throughout the game, winning 37 to 20. It's their fourth straight victory over a ranked team.

I want to thank you so much for your company. I'm Rosemary Church. Have yourselves a wonderful day.

There's more CNN NEWSROOM with Salma Abdelaziz in London right after this.